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Sunday, February 18, 2018

Wakanda is Israel

It's rather bizarre to see all the "hurrah for African nationalism" hooplah about Black Panther when it is clearly just more globalist propaganda dressed in a dashiki. WATYF went to see the movie so you don't have to; he responded to the following exchange between MOTW and me in which we theorized precisely how it would be converged. And, as it turns out, it is a severely converged movie that subverts, rather than celebrates, the very nationalism it so ostentatiously displays.

MOTW: I even predict that the second Black Panther movie will have a villain who wants to bring the traditional nationalist values back to Wakanda, but the Black Panther--who will by then be SJW enlightened and will thus have accepted the glories of progressive globalism--will fight to stop Wakanda's return to its past "dark ages" of nativism and "regressivism". Thus, in this movie, they show a nationalistic Wakanda so that they can then use that premise in movie two to show how much better Wakanda becomes once it turns globalist and progressive. That is my prediction.

VOX: I was actually expecting them to pull that in this movie.

WATYF: They did.

How many people here actually saw this movie? I thought I saw some comments about how this movie was pro-nationalist and so would undercut the SJWs and what not. Was this something they concluded from second-hand info? Because that's the opposite message that this movie conveys.

I'll leave aside the non-political things I didn't like about this movie (the CGI, the incoherent motives of the Big Bad, the lousy fight choreography, the hammy accents/acting) and focus on the political message.

The Big Bad is angry at the history of black oppression (and maybe even oppression in general, but mostly black oppression) and he's also pissed that Black Panther's dad killed his dad. He tricks some white dude into helping him steal back an artifact that was stolen from Wakandans by evil Whitey a long time ago. Afterwards, he double-crosses the white dude because it ends up he only wanted to kill him so he could deliver him (a wanted Wakandan criminal) to the Wakandans as a way to leverage his way in the door and gain some clout.

Once there, he points out how Wakandans shouldn't be in hiding, letting oppression of their people (I guess all black people are their people or something) go on around the world. They should be helping. Not just helping, but ruling. Black Panther talks about how important it is that they protect Wakanda and its secrets and how it has always been this way. Big Bad challenges Black Panther for the crown and wins, then sets in motion a plan to send advanced weapons to all of the "oppressed people" around the world so they can rise up against their oppressors.

Yes, some of the social justicey things are put in the mouth of the Big Bad, but they are done so in a sympathetic manner, not in a way that makes him sound crazy or even wrong. This is demonstrated by the fact that by the end of the movie, after defeating the Big Bad and giving him a chance to see one last Wakandan sunset and say a few words about the evils of slavery before finally dying, Black Panther decides that the Big Bad was right all along (at least in part).

First, he goes to America and buys up a bunch of buildings in the projects so he can "make a difference". Then, in a post-credit scene that made me groan audibly, he goes to the UN, announces their intention to start aiding the world and taking a more active role in it, reveals their secret advanced status (since up to that point everyone assumed they were just a poor nation of farmers) and gives a "Can't we all just get along" speech that rivals anything ever said by any milquetoast, white-guilt-addled liberal. Something about "there's much more that unites us than divides us" and all that hippy-dippy garbage.

There is nothing "nationalist" about this movie. If anything, it's about how a nationalist learned that his nationalism was wrong.

I will say that the preachy context in the main part of the film was more subtle and that if you didn't hang around for the post-credit scene then you may have missed exactly what they were trying to say, but after the speech he gives at the UN, the message couldn't have been clearer.

Metaphorical translation: Wakanda is Israel. The primary theme is the selfish evil of nationalism versus the imperialist imperative of tikkun olam and blessing the world through magnanimous superiority. The memes are wrong. This movie is not even remotely Alt-Right. It is as every bit as cancerous and converged as we expected.

And why on Earth would you ever have expected anything else from Disney? SJWs ALWAYS double down.

Labels: ,

98 Comments:

Blogger Salden February 18, 2018 6:05 AM  

Besides what you all pointed out, Lefties have long made exceptions for tribal behavior, xenophobia, woman beating, conquest etc. as long as it's not Whitey doing it. Just look at the evasive to glorified treatments of the Islamic Empires (especially Moorish Spain), wishy-washy (at worst) stance on China's actions in Tibet, attempts to rehabiliate the likes of the Triple Alliance, avoidance of slavery as practiced by Muslims, etc.

Hell, Lefties only protest Israel steamrolling the Palestinians since Palestinians noble Muds while Israelis are coded as dastardly Honkys.

Blogger #7139 February 18, 2018 6:09 AM  

It gladdens my heart of stone that the Black Panther is converged after all and Disney remains as evil as ever.

Blogger Nathan February 18, 2018 6:13 AM  

"Once there, he points out how Wakandans shouldn't be in hiding, letting oppression of their people (I guess all black people are their people or something) go on around the world."

So they are like Richard Spencer and his white European emphasis.

"Wakanda is Israel. The primary theme is the selfish evil of nationalism versus the imperialist imperative of tikkun olam and blessing the world through magnanimous superiority."

Well, is it not nationalist to be magnanimously superior? Some nations are clearly in need of help and one can do this without, for example, opening up one's borders. Do strict isolationism and nationalism necessarily go hand in hand?

Blogger #7139 February 18, 2018 6:14 AM  

It gladdens my heart of stone that the Black Panther is converged as expected and that Disney remains evil as before.

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 6:23 AM  

Well, is it not nationalist to be magnanimously superior?

No. That is so stupid as to be almost literally retarded. Nationalism concerns the survival of one's people, culture, and way of life. Preference is not an expression of superiority.

Do strict isolationism and nationalism necessarily go hand in hand?

Yes. Nationalism combined with "helping" other nations is called "imperialism".

Blogger Timmy3 February 18, 2018 6:38 AM  

Being a dirt poor unattractive country is what makes Africa the sh ithole that it is and no one wants to live there. Oppression is always used for political purposes. It’s not real until they’re doing it.

Blogger Nathan February 18, 2018 6:39 AM  

Vox,

"Nationalism combined with "helping" other nations is called 'imperialism'."

So *how* you help is not a factor at all?

"Nationalism concerns the survival of one's people, culture, and way of life. Preference is not an expression of superiority."

You misunderstood me because I misunderstood what you meant. When I said "is it not nationalist to be magnanimously superior?" I meant to question whether or not being more *magnanimous* than others (hence superior) was necessarily opposed to being nationalist.

In any case you might want to check out this informative review from one of Milo's crew:

https://www.dangerous.com/41526/review-black-panther-superhero-need-movie-deserve/

Blogger Nathan February 18, 2018 6:59 AM  

A popular comment on Sargon of Akkad's channel says this:

"'A country that was never colonized and rose to immense technological level'. So, Japan. Wakanda is black Japan, basically."

Sargon's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k0AST2sQRI

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 7:00 AM  

So *how* you help is not a factor at all?

No. Nations do not "help" other nations. Nations do not have friends. Nations only have interests.

You misunderstood me because I misunderstood what you meant.

You're off in the weeds babbling about irrelevancies in either case. What is with your obsession with "helping"? If you want to go bang underage Haitians, then go and "help" them with Oxfam. If you want to go roast pygmies over the fire before eating them, go and "help" them with the UN. The very concept that other people "need" your "help" is intrinsically narcissistic. No one is "helping" the Amazon tribes by dragging them forcibly into the 21st century. Nor did anyone "help" the starving African nations by feeding them and "helping" them increase their populations by a factor of 10.

Blogger Lazarus February 18, 2018 7:00 AM  

Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay....

And the Oscar goes to......... the C.I.A.!

Blogger Al From Bay Shore February 18, 2018 7:27 AM  

I had no plans to see this film but now, I want to see it. I want to see the "sleight of hand" that occurs after the credits.

My friends are "GA GA" over this film. If what you guys are saying is true, and I've no reason to doubt, then I wonder if they formed their view around the UN speech scene.

Blogger The Observer February 18, 2018 7:41 AM  

I had no plans to see this film but now, I want to see it.

Don't give them money if you do. I'm sure there are ways.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 7:52 AM  

The UN speech happens after the first initial credits and it's a scene that was filmed after initial filming of the film was done. It's an added scene. You can tell because the actor playing Black Panther is observably smaller in that scene and a couple others at the end which lets me know he lost weight. The scene where he buys the project buildings has the same thing going on.

Which means they had a film that ended with a pro-nationalist message at first, figured that out when they edited it, and then paid a whole bunch of money to add two tacked on scenes at the end to make it pro-globalist.

Kinda sad but not unexpected. The movie is the result of black people being fed Marxist BS for decades and screw the actual history that happened. The idea that 2 billion African descendants all over the world would join together or even consider themselves Wakandan is a retarded idea. In present say Africa the different nations there don't get along with each other. It's like the people making the movie never heard of Rwanda. Or gone to a country that the "colonizers" didn't colonize.

It's going to be a very, very rude awakening for the liberals who have been pushing this garbage for decades when their beloved pets, I mean minorities, finally do rise up like they want them to. The villain in Black Panther is exactly who they'll get. An Angry Black man who wants to kill the oppressor. It amazes me that these liberals can't figure out which side of the fence they end up on.

Blogger Man of the Atom February 18, 2018 7:56 AM  

@10, @11
Someone is always there to tell you what happened, even if you can't show up for the feature.

Post credits in the MCU are indicative of where the franchise is heading. The panorama of MCU post-credits foreshadows the Supreme Dark Lord's prediction for Arkhaven's success.

Blogger Silly but True February 18, 2018 8:20 AM  

Black Panther 2: it is revealed that Mitochondrial Eve was born in Wakanda: "We are all Black Panther."

Blogger tuberman February 18, 2018 8:28 AM  

Wow, Interesting,they have such an audience that REQUIRES being TOLD what the movie is all about after the movie. Contempt for these people (both Blacks and Cucks) by their slave masters is off the charts. This has always been obvious, except to that audience.

Blogger tuberman February 18, 2018 8:32 AM  

This movie and other post-credit Marvel movies deserve Memes pointing out this relationship between the audience and the movie makers. Visuals!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 18, 2018 8:40 AM  

Sounds boring

Blogger NeoNietzsche: February 18, 2018 8:42 AM  

Geez, I'm about halfway through the review at Milo's place -- did they get a buy-one-get-one sale on apostrophes?!? Or is it just cultural appropriation to use apostrophes in place of click-sounds?!? My mental tongue is getting a hernia trying to sound-out their t'ching t'bong t'chu!

Blogger Lovekraft February 18, 2018 8:47 AM  

I've always found the endings of these movies left me wanting. Sure, the crisis at hand has been dealt with, but what happens afterwards? Show us the situation 5, 10 years down the road after the victors have settled in to the hard task of governing.

See, stable nations have strong institutions, rule of law, constitutions, free press etc. Whereas most basketcases in the world only pay lip service to them at best (Africa primarily).

Are these movies unwittingly telling us that stable nations are better but they just can't display this because it would show the despotic ones in a negative/anti-SJW light?

Blogger Jeff aka Orville February 18, 2018 8:49 AM  

Next year in Wankanda.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 18, 2018 9:07 AM  

So let me get this straight, Jews are cutting blacks in on the Olam scam?

Blogger Timmy3 February 18, 2018 9:12 AM  

Why are blacks celebrating this movie as the first ever? They are always trying so hard to break down society’s barriers. They already got the first black president as if it’s such a good thing. Black Panther certainly focuses on African stereotypes to no ones displeasure.

Blogger Rick February 18, 2018 9:15 AM  

Yes. I’m certain if you extracted the convergence out of it (if that’s possible) it would still be just one long string of cliches, epic poses, and CGI explosions after another.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 9:40 AM  

"Jews are cutting blacks in on the Olam scam?"

It'd have to be someone "higher" (lower) in that hierarchy than the nepotism clique you're thinking of. They mostly aren't themselves aware that it's all a scam. Utopians...

Blogger The Pepe report February 18, 2018 10:08 AM  

In the past i was guilty of not treating the black man with as much respect as i should. I learned not to do that. God loves the black man just as much as the white man. If a movie is made to promote and increase African self respect or any groups self respect. thats a good thing.

Blogger Crew February 18, 2018 10:18 AM  

So, what has the box-office take been this weekend and how much is it likely to drop next weekend?

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 10:23 AM  

So, what has the box-office take been this weekend and how much is it likely to drop next weekend?

It's been even more successful than predicted. It will do better than Wonder Woman and will more than justify Marvel and Disney doubling down on convergence.

Disney and Marvel's Black Panther exploded to an estimated $75.8 million on Friday, the eighth largest opening day ever, just over the $75.5 million Captain America: Civil War started with before opening with $179.1 million. Early estimates have Black Panther targeting a three-day opening around $185 million and a $210+ million four-day debut.

Blogger WATYF February 18, 2018 10:25 AM  

This was very disappointing, btw, because I really liked Black Panther in Civil War and this movie could have been quite well done with the foundation they had already laid. The political content (surprisingly enough) wasn't even the most disappointing part. They really botched the fight choreography and the CGI.

Minus the political undertones, the overall story and characters were actually pretty good, but the weaknesses of the film just dragged it down. I've seen every movie in the MCU at least a couple times but I doubt I'll bother watching this one again.

WATYF

Blogger Brad Matthews February 18, 2018 10:27 AM  

You treat people with the respect they have earned and on an individual, not group basis. Being polite and respect are 2 different things.

Blogger Salden February 18, 2018 10:28 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Salden February 18, 2018 10:31 AM  

The Pepe report wrote:In the past i was guilty of not treating the black man with as much respect as i should. I learned not to do that. God loves the black man just as much as the white man. If a movie is made to promote and increase African self respect or any groups self respect. thats a good thing.


Piss off cuck. Niggers aren't capable of respectable society that goes beyond the Iron Age. Feeding them KANGZ garbage is no better than telling grown men than the tooth fairy is a thing and that women find crying attractive.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 18, 2018 10:34 AM  

Salden wrote:Lefties have long made exceptions for tribal behavior, xenophobia, woman beating, conquest etc. as long as it's not Whitey doing it.

Well yes, intellectual consistency has never been their strength, to say the least. A

And accusations of hypocrisy simply slide off their back. They don't care about that. They lie, and lie, and lie, and it never bothers them one little bit.

They are truly and thoroughly shameless.

This is why dialectic has no effect, and only rhetoric bombs that trigger their amygdalae work. As has been instructed here at VP so well, of course.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 18, 2018 10:39 AM  

The Pepe report wrote:If a movie is made to promote and increase African self respect or any groups self respect. thats a good thing.

That's utter horse shit. That thinking comes from the same well of stupidity as participation trophies and false self-esteem boosting (I could go on and on). Causes many times more harm than good. If you haven't figured that out by now you're just too stupid and should shut your mouth.

Blogger Crew February 18, 2018 10:48 AM  

You treat people with the respect they have earned and on an individual, not group basis. Being polite and respect are 2 different things.

Sure. However, reality suggests that blacks, on average, are unlikely to earn your respect.

The mechanization of farming, however, is probably to be blamed for introducing more whites to the undesirable characteristics of blacks, since it forced them off the land and resulted in their migration to places like Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, etc.

It is possible that the new breed of burger flipping robots and sub-making robots will do the same for Hispanics.

Blogger WATYF February 18, 2018 10:50 AM  

So they are like Richard Spencer and his white European emphasis.

Yes. There was an overall of theme of "all black people should relate to the stuff we're saying". They mentioned white imperialism/colonialism more than once. Slavery. The past evils of Europeans in Africa. "People who look just like us" being oppressed all over the world. etc. etc.

If there was any "nationalist" message in this film, it was one of black nationalism, not actual nationalism. And BP was willing to expose his own nation to outside threats in order to pursue a more global "black nationalism" (if you could even conclude that he was limiting his change of heart to helping black people, which is a stretch considering his speech at the end).

But yeah, they most certainly did add several elements that were intended to strike a chord with black people in general.

WATYF

Blogger Amos Bellomy February 18, 2018 10:53 AM  

So this is Marvels "The Force Awakens".

The question here is how the NEXT converged Marvel film will do, now that the rules of the game are set.

(Also, how hilarious is It? That inner city ghetto kids are somehow the "people" of an unrelated African monarchy?)

Blogger Timmy3 February 18, 2018 10:54 AM  

“It's been even more successful than predicted. It will do better than Wonder Woman and will more than justify Marvel and Disney doubling down on convergence.“

Helped by a lack of good releases. 50 Shades is the only other competition, which is actually counter programming.

Blogger James February 18, 2018 10:54 AM  

Timmy3 wrote:Why are blacks celebrating this movie as the first ever? They are always trying so hard to break down society’s barriers. They already got the first black president as if it’s such a good thing. Black Panther certainly focuses on African stereotypes to no ones displeasure.

Timmy3 wrote:Why are blacks celebrating this movie as the first ever? They are always trying so hard to break down society’s barriers. They already got the first black president as if it’s such a good thing. Black Panther certainly focuses on African stereotypes to no ones displeasure.

Blacks “are always trying so hard to break down society’s barriers? Really? Trying hard? Blacks? I thought that any “barriers”, which were always just a way for Whites to protect themselves, were removed by (((those who must not be named))) and their SJW Shabbat goy? You know, the way (((they))) were able to foist a moderate IQ mulatto on the posterity through their control of the media. Blacks didn’t even create the Black Panther and Wakanda. It was done by (((Jack Kirby))) and (((Stan Lee))) so blacks could have imaginary role models.


Blogger WATYF February 18, 2018 11:00 AM  

As an example (which I alluded to in the review above), at the end, BP stabs the Big Bad in the chest and he's dying. BP carries him up to a hill so he can watch the sunset (this is in response to something earlier in the movie). BP asks the Big Bad if he wants them to heal him (since their technology is so advanced, dontchaknow) and the Big Bad says something to the effect of, "Why? So you can just lock me up for the rest of my life? Why would I want that? My ancestors jumped from the slave ships because they knew it was better to die than to live in bondage."

Then he pulls out the knife in his chest and dies.

Several people in the theater applauded at this line.

And that's one thing that was so odd about this movie. So many of the lines that you just know they were trying to get you to agree with were put in the mouth of the Big Bad. It's like they couldn't figure out if he was the good guy or the bad guy.

WATYF

Blogger Matt February 18, 2018 11:11 AM  

He wasn't interesting in Civil War beyond the chase scene. He's a boring 1-note character.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 11:12 AM  

Like communism in the West, at the end of the movie the Bad guy might have died but his idea won out in the end.

Blogger mostly dead February 18, 2018 11:18 AM  

That appear to be the consensus of folks who actually watched the damn thing: it is, unsurprisingly, loudly anti-nationalist. So, it is both funny and annoying to have a bunch of righty sites like CC pushing folks to support this movie as being aligned with Alt-Right's core values, given how the authors of those articles haven't actually watched the damn thing and have no idea what it is that they are supporting.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 11:25 AM  

> However, reality suggests that blacks, on average, are unlikely to earn your respect.

You should judge the spirit only after adjusting for genetics and environment. Nobody condemns a turnip for lacking RAM.

Blogger Crew February 18, 2018 11:32 AM  

You should judge the spirit only after adjusting for genetics and environment. Nobody condemns a turnip for lacking RAM.

Dude, blacks have the best environment in the world in America and yet they still commit far more crime (especially murder and rape) than whites do.

Magic dirt is a failed philosophy!

However, the real problem is the reintroduction of genes for that gratuitous violence into the white (or Chinese population, as there has been some mixing in China as well) because it passes the problem onto the subsequent generation(s).

Blogger WATYF February 18, 2018 11:33 AM  

Like communism in the West, at the end of the movie the Bad guy might have died but his idea won out in the end.

Half of his ideas, at any rate.

He wanted Wakanda to reveal itself and take a more active role in the world, including helping "the oppressed". He thought it was wrong for them to put their own safety (and their secrets) before the needs of others.

He also wanted to arm all of those oppressed people with advanced Wakandan weaponry and establish a worldwide Wakandan empire (he even used to old "the sun will never set on it" line).

BP decided to do the former but most of the 3rd act was about him trying to stop the Big Bad from doing the latter.

WATYF

Blogger James February 18, 2018 11:59 AM  

WATYF wrote:
And that's one thing that was so odd about this movie. So many of the lines that you just know they were trying to get you to agree with were put in the mouth of the Big Bad. It's like they couldn't figure out if he was the good guy or the bad guy.

WATYF


You have not been indoctrinated sufficiently. ALL blacks are “good”. Even when they do bad things, they were “good boys” turning their life around. Like Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown.

You know how we continue to hear that race is a “social construct”? I can say without fear of contradiction that Wakanda is a “social construct”.

Blogger Crew February 18, 2018 12:13 PM  

They are claiming that 80 AMC theaters have seen BP as the top grossing film ever.

It would be interesting to see:

1. Where those theaters are, and
2. Whether or not the advance ticket sales are coming from certain organized buyers.

Of course, since I haven't seen a new release movie in probably a decade or more, I may not be a good judge of who goes to the movies these days.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 12:32 PM  

> blacks have the best environment in the world in America and yet they still commit far more crime (especially murder and rape) than whites do.

The environment a US Millennial black child grows up in is horrific.

This degeneracy does not exist in a natural African tribal environment. African immigrants are a world apart from US-bred niggers, despite the niggers having superior genetics due to white admixture.

Also, I wish that posters would drop the age-of-paper habit of redundantly "signing" posts that already have the poster's name printed at the op. Imagine how obnoxious it would be if everyone did that. One always wonders whether the cause is narcissism or cluelessness.

Blogger WATYF February 18, 2018 12:53 PM  

African immigrants are a world apart from US-bred niggers, despite the niggers having superior genetics due to white admixture.

Can confirm. Lived in Africa and have Africans in my family. They have a very low view of American blacks. They won't let their daughters go anywhere near an American black man.

Also, I wish that posters would drop the age-of-paper habit of redundantly "signing" posts that already have the poster's name printed at the op.

I don't care.

WATYF

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 1:17 PM  

This degeneracy does not exist in a natural African tribal environment.

It most certainly does. In more than a few African countries, it is considerably worse.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 1:37 PM  

The idea that Africans are somehow magically superior to American blacks is laughable. Doesn't the Migrant crisis consist of mostly northern Africans pouring into Europe?

That being said, it's sad that American blacks are attaching themselves to a fictional African identity while in real life blacks and Africans can't stand each other.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 1:46 PM  

> It most certainly does. In more than a few African countries, it is considerably worse.

I doubt that the degeneracy you refer to arises in a natural tribal environment. And I know that African immigrants experience the aforementioned degeneracy culture shock when encountering African Americans.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 1:57 PM  

> The idea that Africans are somehow magically superior to American blacks is laughable.

It is black magic: an inevitable consequence of the Great Society, a consequence of fiat currency, a consequence of democracy.

"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

No matter how r-selected Africa gets, it cannot exceed the Hellscape of feast-famine EBT refills, matriarchy, anti-work, child welfare farming, abortion contraception, drug shoplift mugging economy, entitlement theocracy, and empty calories engineered by Churchian charity.

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 2:01 PM  

I doubt that the degeneracy you refer to arises in a natural tribal environment. And I know that African immigrants experience the aforementioned degeneracy culture shock when encountering African Americans.

I don't care what you doubt. You are absolutely wrong. You are also completely clueless about Africa. The African immigrants are the absolute cognitive elite of Africa and usually come from the more civilized tribes. There are thousands of different African tribes whose cultures vary greatly, and it is as blitheringly stupid to claim that Africans are less degenerate than African-Americans due to the culture shock of immigrants from one or two tribes as it would be to claim that Italian immigrants are less likely to engage in organized crime than Anglo-Americans because the Pope is so very well behaved.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 2:02 PM  

"I doubt that the degeneracy you refer to arises in a natural tribal environment."

If we were before the age of shipping foodstuffs to Africa pro-bo... I mean pro-malus, you might have a point.

...Nah, they still speared each other, carried out omnicidal tribal and/or "family" feuds, and literally tore each other apart and ate each other even then. Granted, nowhere near as bad as it's about to be in a few years, but still nowhere near as good as the ones in America either.

We'll see what happens when the EBTs dry up. That might salvage your case, but I doubt they'll make it far enough.

Obviously if they got here as immigrants, they're probably a bit more upwardly mobile and from a bit more advanced cultures than average... so that probably skews your perceptions too.

I agree with your point about judging the spirit after adjusting for genetics and environment, but I don't think you went with a good argument for it.

Blogger VD February 18, 2018 2:04 PM  

No matter how r-selected Africa gets, it cannot exceed the Hellscape of feast-famine EBT refills, matriarchy, anti-work, child welfare farming, abortion contraception, drug shoplift mugging economy, entitlement theocracy, and empty calories engineered by Churchian charity.

Again, you are completely wrong and totally ignorant. You are simply embarrassing yourself now. You clearly know nothing of mutu, of the common African cure for AIDS, or of the frequency of cannibalism there.

Talk to Peter Grant or Lawdog or the Kurgan. They all grew up there. There is nothing in the West, however degenerate, to compare to the savagery of Africa. Only Papua New Guinea possibly surpasses it.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 2:30 PM  

> it is as blitheringly stupid to claim that Africans are less degenerate than African-Americans due to the culture shock of immigrants from one or two tribes

It mentioned it as supporting evidence, not conclusive.

> If we were before the age of shipping foodstuffs to Africa pro-bo

Which is why I said "natural tribal environment".

> Africans are less degenerate than African-Americans

You are measuring Africans by the standard of civilization. Their lack of civilization cannot be degenerate, because they never had it to decline from. I am measuring them by the standard of a healthy chimp troupe. African Americans have degenerated from that. "Chimp troupe" is hyperbole to clarify "natural tribal".

> You clearly know nothing of mutu, of the common African cure for AIDS, or of the frequency of cannibalism there.

The common African cure for AIDS is sex with a female virgin, for which babies are used.

> Talk to Peter Grant or Lawdog or the Kurgan.

I enjoyed Lawdog's Africa tales.

You are arguing that Africans are more savage than African Americans. I agree. However, African Americans are more degenerate than Africans, because the per capita aid, standard of living, and perverse incentives are higher.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 2:37 PM  

...I confess though I'm familiar with your other points, Vox, it's a hard time figuring out what exactly mutu is.

Best guesses after applying search-fu are:
-Amputation or death of some sort (literally "to cease" or "cut off" apparently).
-(typo: muti) Murder in order to obtain ingredients for "medicine"/witchcraft.
-(Also the word for "medicine", from which the above usage is derived).

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 2:45 PM  

"However, African Americans are more degenerate than Africans, because the per capita aid, standard of living, and perverse incentives are higher."

I think it would be considerably more accurate to say that black people in the USA are degenerating faster than black people in Africa.

What you're saying is like comparing acceleration and velocity. Sure, Africa doesn't have a whole lot of acceleration, but as far as our records go they started out at Mach 20. By comparison, USA blacks have something like 40 ft/sec squared acceleration. It's gonna be a while, and that's if they don't encounter much wind resistance.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 2:55 PM  

> What you're saying is like comparing acceleration and velocity.

No it isn't. They are qualitatively different things, like the difference between a tame animal and a wild one. Savagery<->Civilization is one axis. Degenerate<->Fit is another. An advanced civilization may be degenerate, and a savage tribe may be fit; or vice versa.

Asabiyyah is a subset of "fit" as used here.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 3:02 PM  

"Savagery<->Civilization is one axis. Degenerate<->Fit is another."

True, but you were talking about comparing the quality of people's spirits. So... irrelevant. Savage/civil? Degenerate/fit? Meh, not exact corrolaries.

Good vs evil.

Blogger The Pepe report February 18, 2018 3:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 3:06 PM  

Americans have abortions, sloth, some murder and violence.

Africans have abortion, murder, witchcraft, cannibalism, ritual mutilation, satanic murder, ritual magical disease-propagating extreme pedophilia-rape...

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 3:08 PM  

> but you were talking about comparing the quality of people's spirits. So... irrelevant.

That is because you do not follow the flow of debate. I advocated leniency in judging the spirits of US niggers. Another rebutted that they have a wonderful environment of plenty. I answered that the environment is horrifically degenerate, not wonderful, which explains the soul wreckage of the African-American, even relative to the African. One observes similar soul wreckage in unnaturally treated, alternately pampered and abused pets.

Blogger Crew February 18, 2018 3:32 PM  

@64: I think this soul you speak of may be different in black Africans and Europeans.

Blogger Nate February 18, 2018 4:14 PM  

the black male community is already starting to reject the movie. I have two black friends that said the movie should've been called "The Women of Wakanda".

They both felt gipped by the movie.

Blogger D. Bay February 18, 2018 4:18 PM  

"It's going to be a very, very rude awakening for the liberals who have been pushing this garbage for decades when their beloved pets, I mean minorities, finally do rise up like they want them to. The villain in Black Panther is exactly who they'll get. An Angry Black man who wants to kill the oppressor. It amazes me that these liberals can't figure out which side of the fence they end up on."

Oh, they already know that full well. Maybe subconsciously yet they know it. Which is why phony white liberals almost always run for the hills and move the hell out of any neighborhood that gets too African or Hispanic. They sure as hell don't want their children to be the only white kids in a majority black or brown school. It's hilarious really. They claim to embrace cultural divershitty yet run from it when it gets too out of control or moves next door to them enmasse. Hypocrites galore. Divershitty for thee yet not for me.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 4:26 PM  

"the black male community is already starting to reject the movie. I have two black friends that said the movie should've been called "The Women of Wakanda".

They both felt gipped by the movie."

Yeah... There's a lot of imagery of black women physically beating up black men unless it's the main bad or a rhino. It screws up the continuity of the film's last battle sequence.

It's really weird how the black community puts black women on a pedestal.

Blogger James February 18, 2018 5:12 PM  

FUBARwest wrote:"the black male community is already starting to reject the movie. I have two black friends that said the movie should've been called "The Women of Wakanda".

It's really weird how the black community puts black women on a pedestal.


Given the violence with which many black women are beaten or killed by their men, I don’t think the “black community” puts black women on a pedestal. Its just they are the only ones that will actually do anything resembling work. They are also the main ones running for political office these days, it seems. Partially because black men are too lazy, partially because White liberals find black women less threatening.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 5:20 PM  

Except black women have been raising black men since LBJ's Great Society. You would think if they were such a boon by themselves without needing men the "community" would be in a better position.

Seeing as we know that's not the case you would think the men would figure out the issue might be the lack of fathers and not continue to elevate women above men but this movie is yet another example of the same messaging.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 5:28 PM  

"That is because you do not follow the flow of debate."

Incorrect. Your "flow" went off on rabbit trails trying to justify your concept, now you're attempting to compare different aspects of the spirit (apples to oranges). Your proposed "flow" is multiply flawed to start with. Even if it weren't, you can't have it both ways: which is it, do the effects on and the affects of the body and environment reflect the spirit or not? If they do, then obviously Africans in Africa still have/have-produced a worse environment and worse physical effects, thus worse spirits. If they don't, your entire line of argument is an invalid contortion.

If you want to go back to the very start, you decided to go off on a rabbit trail comparing spirits when we were talking about earning respect (respect can be for aspects that do not necessarily have anything to do with the spirit -- so red herring #1). You're not even on the spirit gig anymore at this point. Crew was correct. Observe the fruit of Africa in Africa. It's much worse than the fruit of Africa + America.

As for USA blacks, their environment is at least as much caused by them as it is causing them. Good fruits? Nope. While your "judge them by their spirit" I agree with, clearly there's something spiritually wrong with them (on average) in those aspects. However, not nearly as wrong as what is happening and has happened in Africa.

Ultimately no one can "force" anything on someone. An evil choice or lie can be put in front of them a million times a day, but they're still the one that accepts or rejects it every single time. Accepting it is investing in it.

Desirable surroundings do not make one good, but neither do tortuous ones. Physical life doesn't guarantee your salvation, and physical death doesn't force you into either Heaven or Hell. Your decisions and actions do.

Environments do not necessarily affect people, but people necessarily affect their environments. Blacks in the USA are part of the cause of their environment, just as are blacks in Africa.

TL;DR: Respect != spirit. Spirit != your arbitrary (cherry pick and choose) definition of it. In addition your argument contradicts itself.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 18, 2018 5:37 PM  

"Seeing as we know that's not the case you would think the men would figure out the issue might be the lack of fathers and not continue to elevate women above men but this movie is yet another example of the same messaging."

Now you're just off in bizarro land. Black men don't even put white women on a pedestal, and black women get even worse treatment. They might pay some lip service, but the dating sites don't lie. Not even black men like black women by comparison to others. Pedestal? Good one.

Blogger FUBARwest February 18, 2018 6:09 PM  

True enough. Perhaps you can help with a better word to describe the reasons behind having an army of black women beat a similar sized army of black men. As well as having "the best warrior in the land" be a woman and the black cultural pressure to call all black women "queens".

Stats don't lie but my vocabulary lacks the word to describe those actions so I resorted to placing them on a pedestal even if it's lip service only. Having your climatic ending for the "FIRST BLACK SUPER HERO MOVIE"(I'm aware it isn't) end in that manner is awfully dedicated lip service.

Blogger Nick S February 18, 2018 6:28 PM  

Typical of the morally subjective lefties to abscond with a perfectly good word "Wakonda" (an Osage Indian word meaning something consecrated or spiritual) then bastardize it and pass it off as their own.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf February 18, 2018 6:45 PM  

I'm curious as to how the movie is perceived in E. Asia.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 18, 2018 7:08 PM  

Q: What's the national bird of Wakanda?
A: Fried Chicken

Q: What is the name of the Wakandan bitcoin?
A: KangzCoinz

Blogger tublecane February 18, 2018 7:12 PM  

@Nathan- Except Japan got spooked when the West kicked in its and chose to copy it.

Wakanda hid from the West and stayed Wakanda-y.

Blogger tublecane February 18, 2018 7:33 PM  

We have short memories in this country. Memories are shorter still on the left, even shorter in Hollywood, and shortest of all among blacks, who live Friday to Friday. That, and for whatever reason we're constantly categorizing things in terms of the first, most, last, best, greatest, etc.

Which might explain why there could have been a billion black movies before Black Panther (and several black superhero movies, which in fact there were) and people could still pretend it was the first. However, what's actually happened is that Black Panther is the first black Marvel movie. A fact to which the "first" obsessees don't wish to draw attratten. Because then it's just an ethnically specific spin-off of a successful movie franchise.

White people are supposed to be feeding off of black innovation, according to one of our culture's insane beliefs. Which is true in pop music, slang, street fashion, and stand-up comedy, perhaps. But not blockbuster movies.

Blogger LogicTsunami February 18, 2018 7:38 PM  

This Black Panther thread on 4chan is hilarious:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/160997482

Blogger tublecane February 18, 2018 7:41 PM  

Yes, aside from being aimed at females, obviously, I've noticed black people think of sado-masichism as a white thang. Maybe it is.

They no doubt hit eachother in bed, but don't make a production out of it. That's at least one thing blacks have going for them, if true.

Possibly the entire "romance novel" subgenre isn't for them. Hard to be romantic about sex when you lose your virginity at 13 to the guy doing your mom or to your 17 year-old cousin from down the way.

Blogger tublecane February 18, 2018 7:47 PM  

Counter-currents (I assume that's the "CC") pushes some rightist ideas and thinkers, but my impression after a few seconds on the site was that they're leftists. Far enough outside the acceptable left that they're open to a range of truths usually only recognized on the right in our culture.

I would call them alt-left, but that name is taken.

Blogger The Observer February 18, 2018 7:47 PM  

Given the violence with which many black women are beaten or killed by their men, I don’t think the “black community” puts black women on a pedestal. Its just they are the only ones that will actually do anything resembling work. They are also the main ones running for political office these days, it seems.

This is standard in your average African mud-hut matriarchy. Women do anything resembling work and have all the political power, men fight each other and the women all day.

Blogger tublecane February 18, 2018 7:57 PM  

@FUBARwest- Insofar as they do, it's not weird. What do you expect from kids raised by mothers and grandmothers with Daddy nowhere in sight. If they've even met him.

But in point of fact, blacks don't pedestalize women. They have a "bitches ain't nuttin'" culture. "Dear Mamma" only goes so far.

In any case, Black Panther isn't really a product of black culture. It just had some blacks involved, is all.

Blogger L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright February 18, 2018 8:32 PM  

Does MOTW stand for Master Of The World?

As to the person who was asking about nationalism, that was probably me...and he is entirely correct. I have not seen it. I was merely asking a question based on the first reactions of friends who have seen it.

I have heard more since...in keeping with what has been said above.

Blogger Koanic February 18, 2018 9:18 PM  

> Incorrect. Your "flow" went off on rabbit trails

You don't have the verbal IQ to lecture me on the flow of debate. For example, when an axis is posited A<->B, it's irrelevant whether A and B are perfect dictionary antonyms, because the words are modified by the local context to become perfect antonyms in order to fulfill the concept of an "axis".

I can never fathom why midwits won't exercise caution when fighting up weight classes. Succeeding at it is glorious, but pretending the knockout power isn't there just looks retarded.

> I think this soul you speak of may be different in black Africans and Europeans.

Obviously. No two souls are alike, much less between races.

Blogger Leatherwing February 18, 2018 10:31 PM  

I wonder how the success of Black Panther has affected total box office this weekend. I was thinking of going to go see something over the weekend, but decided to stay away from any potential trouble. So I wonder whether there was a drop off ion total weekend attendance this weekend.

Blogger YIH February 19, 2018 1:52 AM  

VD wrote:So, what has the box-office take been this weekend and how much is it likely to drop next weekend?

It's been even more successful than predicted. It will do better than Wonder Woman and will more than justify Marvel and Disney doubling down on convergence.

Disney and Marvel's Black Panther exploded to an estimated $75.8 million on Friday, the eighth largest opening day ever, just over the $75.5 million Captain America: Civil War started with before opening with $179.1 million. Early estimates have Black Panther targeting a three-day opening around $185 million and a $210+ million four-day debut.

I'll just leave this here:
"Black Panther," Marvel's first film directed by an African-American, brought in an estimated $192 million for its three-day debut in North America this weekend. That's the fifth biggest opening of all time.

Blogger OneWingedShark February 19, 2018 1:56 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Americans have abortions, sloth, some murder and violence.

Africans have abortion, murder, witchcraft, cannibalism, ritual mutilation, satanic murder, ritual magical disease-propagating extreme pedophilia-rape...

Hm, remember Pizzagate, "Spirit Cooking", and Bohemian Grove rumors?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 19, 2018 4:18 AM  

"You don't have the verbal IQ to lecture me on the flow of debate. For example, when an axis is posited A<->B, it's irrelevant whether A and B are perfect dictionary antonyms, because the words are modified by the local context to become perfect antonyms in order to fulfill the concept of an "axis"."

Your entire axis is still irrelevant itself. I'm not sure if you're refusing to stop trying to move the goalposts, or if you're just blithely unaware.

Keep preaching about verbal IQ, you're just wrong. Your failure to provide any argument beyond essentially "I'm smart, you're stupid" indicates precisely the opposite of what you're saying, as does your continued failure to even address the arguments actually logically connected to the initial argument.

Africans, in Africa, observably behave more evilly than the mixes in the USA. African black spiritual quality < USA black spiritual quality.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 19, 2018 4:30 AM  

By thinking that I even said anything to do with your axis points not being opposites, you also betray a lack of reading comprehension that I'd call startling coming from someone else.

Blogger Koanic February 19, 2018 5:38 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:By thinking that I even said anything to do with your axis points not being opposites, you also betray a lack of reading comprehension that I'd call startling coming from someone else.

That's a perfect example of Dunning-Kruger. My reading comprehension is objectively superior to well over triple 9 of the Western population.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"Savagery<->Civilization is one axis. Degenerate<->Fit is another."

True, but you were talking about comparing the quality of people's spirits. So... irrelevant. Savage/civil? Degenerate/fit? Meh, not exact corrolaries.

Good vs evil.


cor·ol·lar·y
ˈkôrəˌlerē,ˈkärəˌlerē/
noun
1.
a proposition that follows from (and is often appended to) one already proved.

Despite your incompetent diction, your intended meaning was clear.

Blogger Koanic February 19, 2018 5:55 AM  

Oh, I did misjudge your intent. I assumed you were making a point that had some validity - that the antonym pairs were imperfectly parallel in diction. However, you were making a point with zero validity - that the societal degeneracy<->fitness axis is irrelevant to judging the good<->evil of an individual spirit. I admit that anticipating midwit cognitive errors is not one of my strengths. Which is why I value the elaboration produced by our exchanges.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 19, 2018 6:55 AM  

"That's a perfect example of Dunning-Kruger. My reading comprehension is objectively superior to well over triple 9 of the Western population."

Ironic. Pride cometh before the fall. Observe:

Koanic: "spirit".

AA: "spirit".

Koanic: "soul" "soul" "soul"

You clearly do not comprehend the difference.

AA: "not exact corrolaries."

Koanic: "a proposition that follows from (and is often appended to) one already proved.

Despite your incompetent diction, your intended meaning was clear."


I'll admit I didn't recheck for spelling, but then again, spelling is not diction. Your verbal IQ? Do tell me more.

Still your lack of reading comprehension. You have not yet proved that a person's spirit is identical to their level of savagery or civilization, or to their level of degeneracy versus fitness. In fact, you made an opposing argument at least once, which is why I said that your arguments contradict themselves:

Koanic: "You should judge the spirit only after adjusting for genetics and environment. Nobody condemns a turnip for lacking RAM."

As for your latest response:

"However, you were making a point with zero validity - that the societal degeneracy<->fitness axis is irrelevant to judging the good<->evil of an individual spirit."

I never made that argument. Your thoroughly pathetic reading comprehension strikes yet again.

That they are not exact corollaries does NOT mean that they have no correlation at all.

You need to stop jumping to conclusions. It leads you to assume that your opponents espouse idiotic straw-man positions that have occurred only in your mind.

You need to work on avoiding binary thinking, as it's also contributing to the above sort of errors.

You need to learn to admit when you've been wrong, inane, or entirely incoherent. Recall that the original point was about earning respect or being respected, which is also not an exact corollary to spiritual quality, though under certain definitions it might fit soul quality.

I'm done with you on this topic, Koanic, as you've demonstrated a complete inability to resist doubling down or avoid wallowing in irrelevancies. Shame.

Blogger bw February 20, 2018 9:47 AM  

Metaphorical translation: Wakanda is Israel

This shit is so simple. All oppressed minorities, to include first and foremost white females (feminism), are the psych projection of the International Jew and the Rabbis and Usurious Bankers.
They have trained them as proxy weapons.
When you hear the minorities and fems speak, it is the anti Christ Jew you are hearing, hiding behind a "front".

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Blogger Koanic February 21, 2018 12:21 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Koanic: "spirit".

AA: "spirit".

Koanic: "soul" "soul" "soul"

You clearly do not comprehend the difference.


I scanned back up, and found the diction changes appropriate and integral to my argument. Having a destroyed soul excuses much of the spirit's blame. This sort of thing is why I typically don't continue reading your text blocks.

Blogger Rashadjin March 19, 2018 9:13 PM  

To my horror, I understand what Koanic was getting at, and to my horror of horrors, I kind of agree with him here. Although I'm entirely ignoring the pointless verbal sparring over who can understand/communicate what well.

In an absolute sense, Azure and Co. are correct. The abominable practices in Africa are much worse than with blacks in America. But Koanic is getting at the character of the people, as in, whether they do what is right and proper according to their understanding of what is right and proper.

I'm pretty ignorant here, but as I understand it, cannibalism in Africa is about taking in the power of your defeated foes. Likewise, sex with (horribly young) virgins would seem to be about taking in the purity of a virgin to wash out the filth of some sexual disease. These things make a symbolic sort of sense, and in the context of their ignorance, may be perceived as right and proper.

The thing with American Blacks is that they are surrounded by Christians and the inheritance of the West. They've had their luminaries (King Jr., Sowell, M. Jordan, Desmond Tutu, M. Freeman, etc.), they've had their opportunities and hands up, and so many of them have chosen to do what they know is wrong and improper.

The interesting question is which portion of those who have chosen to do what they know is wrong and improper is greater? With American Blacks or Sub-Saharan Africans? Like Koanic, I'm leaning toward American Blacks. Although South Africa is trying very hard to change my mind.

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