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Thursday, April 19, 2018

A reliable evil-detector

FN postulates an explanation for legalistic religious sophistry:
I think these crazy-seeming reinterpretations of the plain meaning of the Old Testament are partly motivated by a desire to seem clever. "Look how smart I am, I can understand it better than anyone else! No, it doesn't really mean what the words say, it means this subtle thing that nobody but I can see!"
I have no doubt that is partly true, but mostly it comes down to wanting to have sex with children. Evil always comes up with some way to rationalize that. Here is a reliable heuristic for evil: does it justify, rationalize, excuse, defend, encourage, advocate, or require sex with children in any way, openly or covertly, directly or indirectly? Then it is evil, topped by an evil sauce, with a side of evil.

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176 Comments:

Blogger Crew April 19, 2018 11:14 AM  

I have no doubt that is partly true, but mostly it comes down to wanting to have sex with children.

I seriously cannot understand such people and if evil exists, then they are it. The only thing appropriate for such people is the application of rule 308.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 19, 2018 11:15 AM  

Wait, are you suggesting that the Prophet Mohammed (piss be upon him) was anything less than God's excellent example for mankind?

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 19, 2018 11:17 AM  

One of Mr. Wright's commenters (who is otherwise actually pretty smart) who's been arguing over there in defense of immigrants just, practically speaking, defended Mexico's age-of-consent of 12. That was stunning to see and made me wonder if there was literally anything he would not excuse in order to defend the immigrants he loves so much more than the native population.

Blogger Sevron April 19, 2018 11:18 AM  

Imagine traveling to any point in the past of America and explaining to them that this actually had to be debated.

OpenID widlast April 19, 2018 11:21 AM  

Moslems, Mormons, Scientologists, the Bahai, Buddhists, and an assortment of other idiotic groups seem to has this atrocious blind spot when it comes to taking a good hard look at the behaviors and habits of their so called 'prophets'. There was nothing superhuman or prophetic about any of them and most had habits that would have gotten them imprisoned under today's laws.

Blogger Miguel April 19, 2018 11:25 AM  

Obly Christianity is against pedophilia, which explains why the ruling pedo-elite hates it.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 19, 2018 11:25 AM  

That Vox has to express this thought in this way, that it is not axiomatic and implicitly understood in our culture, is a massive clue as to how far off the track we’ve gone.

In a relatively short span

Blogger Bogey April 19, 2018 11:27 AM  

@7 Interesting how the unthinkable becomes the norm given time.

Blogger Michael Maier April 19, 2018 11:36 AM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:One of Mr. Wright's commenters (who is otherwise actually pretty smart) who's been arguing over there in defense of immigrants just, practically speaking, defended Mexico's age-of-consent of 12. That was stunning to see and made me wonder if there was literally anything he would not excuse in order to defend the immigrants he loves so much more than the native population.

I'm scared to go looking for stats but it seems as though that's one of those laws written like:

"Well, too large of a % of the population is going to do that so set the bar really low. And don't make cousin sex illegal either."

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 11:40 AM  

One of Mr. Wright's commenters (who is otherwise actually pretty smart) who's been arguing over there in defense of immigrants just, practically speaking, defended Mexico's age-of-consent of 12.

I'm not surprised. Next he'll defend their right to lower age-of-consent in the USA because they are real Americans, better Americans, in fact, than the actual American posterity.

Probably because he thinks he has a better shot with 12-year-old girls than adult women.

It's really not that hard. Most people argue for a) whatever they want or b) whatever relieves their emotional pain.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 19, 2018 11:47 AM  

@10 Yeah, the thing that really gets me about Y.O.S. is that, until the issue of immigrants and race came up, I'd generally agreed with him, and he was clearly quite intelligent and well-informed. But . . . defending Mexico's age of consent? I'm at a loss for words.

Blogger Sherwood family April 19, 2018 11:47 AM  

Historical age of consent laws in the U.S. are nothing to be proud of either. According to Infogalactic, age of consent in a number of states was 10, in 1890. Delaware lowered their age of consent in 1895 to 7 years old. Thankfully, that is no longer the way it is.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2018 11:51 AM  

Ruth Ginsburg was strongly advocating reducing the age of consent to 12.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 19, 2018 11:52 AM  

Pedophilia or infant sacrifice. No one is happier than the satan, either way.

Blogger DJ | AMDG April 19, 2018 11:54 AM  

Is the age of consent thing from where that rabbi talked about boys not being held accountable until 13 and girls 12? If that was code for sex, then I totally didn’t read that correctly.

I think tradition tells us Mary the mother of Jesus was 14-16. What does that tell us about age of consent? Is it right to say it’s fluid for the era and the culture.

I’m of the personal belief that my boys will not reach the age of consent until they can independently financially care for a wife and child. My girls won’t reach the age of consent until my dead body is ice cold.

Blogger Bogey April 19, 2018 11:59 AM  

...why was 18 eventually agreed upon?

Blogger pdwalker April 19, 2018 12:02 PM  

Here is a reliable heuristic for evil: does it justify, rationalize, excuse, defend, encourage, advocate, or require sex with children in any way, openly or covertly, directly or indirectly? Then it is evil, topped by an evil sauce, with a side of evil.

I never would have felt this strongly before I realized that pedophilia was really real. Now that I know it is real, I think VD is actually understating how evil these sick people really are.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 19, 2018 12:06 PM  

Sisal and Rule 308

Blogger Sherwood family April 19, 2018 12:06 PM  

We have a number of weird/sick trends that come into conflict on this issue in our modern world. On the one hand our society continues to try to sexualize children at younger and younger ages. On the other hand it tries to infantilize them as well as incapable of making serious decisions until later and later. So you have children who are, on the one hand incapable of voting, smoking, drinking, renting a car, buying a gun, etc. who are told: go have sex with whoever you want and if you want to have a medical procedure like an abortion your parents should have no say in the matter. It is schizophrenic.

Historically, when some of these younger (too young) ages of consent held sway there was an understanding that people would also marry quite a bit younger than they do now. In other words, with physical maturity (read nubility) should come commensurate social responsibility and accountability. The idea of youth running around sleeping with people willy nilly as they do today was unconscionable. If you were of an age to have sex you should marry and take on all the outcomes that came with it.

Of course, 10 is really much younger than historical onset of menarche in females and certainly below the age of puberty in males. So I am not entirely sure what was going on or why this was allowed to exist. There is probably some legal idea that I do not know about.

Blogger Carl Philipp April 19, 2018 12:08 PM  

@13
"Ruth Ginsburg was strongly advocating reducing the age of consent to 12."

She won't be the last. After all, the current age of consent laws are a white supremacist imposition of white American Christian standards of "childhood" and "appropriate behavior towards children." Think of all the poor 3rd world immigrants who want to bring their 13-year-old girlfriends with them!

Before they change the law, though, there may have to be at least one major Hollywood release featuring the tragic Romeo-and-Juliet style romance between a 30-year-old Mexican immigrant and a 14-year-old white girl whose parents and culture just don't understand.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2018 12:09 PM  

pdwalker wrote:Here is a reliable heuristic for evil: does it justify, rationalize, excuse, defend, encourage, advocate, or require sex with children in any way, openly or covertly, directly or indirectly? Then it is evil, topped by an evil sauce, with a side of evil.

I never would have felt this strongly before I realized that pedophilia was really real. Now that I know it is real, I think VD is actually understating how evil these sick people really are.

Yes, VD is understating the evil, necessary so far.

Blogger Some Guy April 19, 2018 12:09 PM  

The best part is that these are the people who want to claim moral superiority.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2018 12:27 PM  

Bogey wrote:...why was 18 eventually agreed upon?
It wasn't. In most states it's 16.

Blogger Jack Amok April 19, 2018 12:38 PM  

Something to keep in mind about Age of Consent laws and 16 (or 14, or any teen) year old girls, traditionally that wasn't the age they could agree to go have one night stands and hookups. That was the age they could be married to a man who was assumed to be responsible enough to lead a household, or at least mentored by someone who was.


Blogger David Power April 19, 2018 12:41 PM  



Peterson argues that something bad, becomes evil when Its motivated purely for the sake of being bad.

i.e. Deliberately working someone to death building you a bridge, is unspeakably bad. Whereas, deliberately working someone to death pointlessly moving rocks back and fourth, is evil.

Is he wrong? And if so, why?

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 12:48 PM  

Is he wrong? And if so, why?

Yes. Because he has no foundation for his morality or his moral metric. He might as meaningfully declared the bridge-building death "blue" and the rock-moving death "yellow".

He has no case. He's just playing logical word games built on naked assumptions.

Blogger James Dixon April 19, 2018 12:49 PM  

> There is probably some legal idea that I do not know about.

Almost certainly to allow for arranged marriages. They aren't just an Indian (dot, not feather) custom. They were relatively common at one time.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 19, 2018 12:53 PM  

I've read parts of Vox Day's blog, going back years, because I was curious when I discovered it.
Now I pray for him, daily, since God has seen him fit to be tested by confronting evil head on.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 19, 2018 12:55 PM  

"It's really not that hard. Most people argue for a) whatever they want or b) whatever relieves their emotional pain."
Add Robert De Niro to the list, at least according to Martin Brodel:

https://youtu.be/7IUsq7OSjeg

His motive for all that virtue-signaling and talk about punching the president makes more sense now.

Blogger Out of Nod April 19, 2018 12:58 PM  

Jeremiah 29:8-9

The Lord who rules over all is the God of Israel. He says, "Do not let the prophets trick you. Do not be fooled by those who claim to have secret knowledge. Do not listen to people who try to explain dreams to you. All of them are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," announces the Lord."

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 19, 2018 12:58 PM  

With advances in health and education, the age of consent necessarily moved older. I think that all can agree that changing the age of consent to, say, 21 yo, is unreasonable. We all can agree that under, say, 16, is unreasonable.

Whatever the age of consent ought to be, 17 or 18 is about right, on this issue, we should not condemn previous generations by today's standard.

Whatever we decide the age of consent ought to be, I am for fixing our own problems and no busy-bodying into other counties' business.


Even Fancy was 18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lwqxZJ05R4&ytbChannel=RebaGirlAtHeart21

Blogger David Power April 19, 2018 12:59 PM  

Yes. Because he has no foundation for his morality or his moral metric.

OK, I guess his definition of evil is... To inflict pain/suffering on to others, purely for the sake of inflicting that pain and suffering.

What criteria, if any, would you use to differentiate between something that is unspeakably bad and something that is purely evil?

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 1:04 PM  

What criteria, if any, would you use to differentiate between something that is unspeakably bad and something that is purely evil?

Bad doesn't necessarily have any moral component to it. Hurricane damage is bad, but it is not evil.

Blogger Fifty Seven April 19, 2018 1:11 PM  

I may be taking this too far, but by that logic the Gulag system wasn't evil, because it produced lumber and ore.

Blogger Conor Foran April 19, 2018 1:12 PM  

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to say that hurricane damage qua hurricane damage constitutes a physical evil but not a moral evil?

Blogger VFM #7634 April 19, 2018 1:16 PM  

...why was 18 eventually agreed upon?

@18 Bogey
I think 15 or 16 is considered appropriate in most places. I do think 18 is too high -- it can lead to young men getting in trouble with jailbait and having to register as sex offenders, or at the least having to deal with idiots who equate biologically-adult 17 year old girls with children because muh law or something.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 19, 2018 1:20 PM  

@31 JaimeInTexas
I'd say 14 is too low and 18 is too high. 15, 16, or 17 is okay.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 19, 2018 1:21 PM  

How old was your grandmother when she got married? That's a pretty reliable guide for age of marriage. Mine was 20, but certainly earlier marriages happened back then.

Blogger David Power April 19, 2018 1:22 PM  

Hurricane damage is bad, but it is not evil.

OK, maybe I should rephrase the question.

OK, Assuming we are talking about one persons actions against another person.

At what point would you say something that is merely hurtful, becomes something evil?

Blogger Not a lefty April 19, 2018 1:25 PM  

Working someone to death building a bridge is called forced labor, slavery. This example is the bridge over the river quai, not building the Brooklyn bridge where all the workers were there voluntarily, even if some of them died during construction. Of course it's evil and so is the intent. Death is part and parcel of the package from the beginning.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 1:28 PM  

"but mostly it comes down to wanting to have sex with children."

Or murder them and literally bathe in their blood to maintain youth. Or the modern equivalent thereof *cough*fetalstemcellresearchandtherapy*cough*.

Whatever destroys the most humans the fastest floats Satan's boat high on uppers.

Blogger Garuna April 19, 2018 1:28 PM  

None of these people explicitly endorse pedophilia, however:

1) Fake Right Globo-lite Richard Spencer has defended "ethical child porn"
2) Midget Jew 'Destiny' has defended "ethical child porn"
3) Promiscuous attention whore Shoeonhead has defended certain kinds of pedophilia.

All three are anti-SJW. But also all three have attacked the right-wing, religion, nationalism, and Trump.

This is common in many of the anti-Trump "blackpill" groups as well. If you talk to them, sooner or later you find that they have some weird moral deformities and will have strange opinions about pedophiles. They will want to appease instead of eradicate.

This is a good litmus test for our """allies""" in the dissident movement. If they hate Trump, nationalism, right-wing politics, and/or religion. But they are weirdly soft on pedophiles, they are probably fake allies who will backstab us.

Blogger haus frau April 19, 2018 1:30 PM  

All age of consent laws should have a Romeo and Juliette exception for a partner who is within 2 to 4 years of the under age person. Its unjust and counter productive to put 19 year old men who slept with a willing 16 year old on the same sex offender list as men who diddle toddlers. The law should recognize that young people grow into adulthood in stages.
I"m not the least bit surprised about De Niro. I hope all of this sees the light soon.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 1:32 PM  

"Interesting how the unthinkable becomes the norm given time."

Evil has no bottom. Think you're at the bottom? Next year your previous position will look like heaven from where you're now dug to.

Blogger Johnny April 19, 2018 1:34 PM  

David Power wrote:Hurricane damage is bad, but it is not evil.

OK, maybe I should rephrase the question.

OK, Assuming we are talking about one persons actions against another person.

At what point would you say something that is merely hurtful, becomes something evil?


The easiest case is when the damage accidental. To give a real life example from my area. Some wind blows the hat off a kindergarten student as the bus starts pulling away. The kid dives in front of the wheels of the bus to retrieve the hat and you can guess the rest. Really bad and regrettable, but not judged evil for want of intent or lack of caution on the part of the bus driver.

Another word pair that is used to fool people is cause and blame. One of the words is a moral judgment, the other an action.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 19, 2018 1:35 PM  

And the bus driver drinks himself to death.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 1:36 PM  

"Look how smart I am, I can understand it better than anyone else! No, it doesn't really mean what the words say, it means this subtle thing that nobody but I can see!"

This is the way our elite thinks about a lot of things, especially in academia. Not just the explicit frauds like deconstructivists, but in the supposed sciences, too.

It works best with subjects that are actually meaningless, like most modern/postmodern art.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 19, 2018 1:38 PM  

@43
Can we all agree that 12 yo is too young, even if couple are same age plus or minus 2 years?

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 1:38 PM  

This is not a good heuristic.

Yes, evil requires the acceptance of illogical premises. Yes, every illogical premise can be used to justify pedophila (explosion principle). Yes, evil forces want to normalize pedophilia.

However, it is observably true that most of the evils and obfuscations people engage in are not associated with pedophilia, nor motivated by this particular perversion. The road to Hell is broad.

Blogger CM April 19, 2018 1:40 PM  

All age of consent laws should have a Romeo and Juliette exception for a partner who is within 2 to 4 years of the under age person. Its unjust and counter productive to put 19 year old men who slept with a willing 16 year old on the same sex offender list as men who diddle toddlers. The law should recognize that young people grow into adulthood in stages.
I"m not the least bit surprised about De Niro. I hope all of this sees the light soon.


I think age of consent should be age of consent *period*.

If a girl is old enough to consent to a 19 year old, she's old enough to consent to older. If she's too young to consent to older, she's too young to consent at all.

It is better for young women (and potential offspring) to engage with men with resources. Not with fellow travelers trapped in our fruitless education system.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 19, 2018 1:41 PM  

“But they are weirdly soft on pedophiles, they are probably fake allies who will backstab us.”

... then they’re certainly fake allies who will probably backstab us.

FTFY

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 19, 2018 1:44 PM  

Azoli

He didn’t say every evil pedophiliac, he said every pedophiliac is evil.

Blogger kurt9 April 19, 2018 1:58 PM  

The idea of having sex with children is quite disgusting to me. I do not see how pedophilia can be that common.

Blogger David Power April 19, 2018 2:00 PM  

Surely to have A reliable evil-detector we need a reliable definition of what evil is and how it differs from something that is merely bad.


I think we can all agree that robbing a store for money is bad, but torturing the store keeper to death for fun is evil.

But how exactly is that line defined and what criteria should be used to define it?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:01 PM  

Can we agree that the most evil people will push the hardest for further evil, Aeoli?

So then you have to cross reference quantity and quality of evil persons with a graph that shows how hard any particular "quality" of evil people are likely to push.

Then you'll know exactly where to drop the first hammer blow.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 2:01 PM  

Azoli

He didn’t say every evil pedophiliac, he said every pedophiliac is evil.


He said neither, nor did I mischaracterize him as such. Slow down and read carefully.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:02 PM  

Pedophilia seems to be a great place to drop the hammer at present time.

The push is nigh and the arm is mighty.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 2:04 PM  

This is not a good heuristic.

You're wrong. You didn't even understand it correctly.

And if you try to make the subject about me again, you'll be spammed. You have been warned. Do not ever attempt to use me or anything to do with me as an example.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 2:06 PM  

However, it is observably true that most of the evils and obfuscations people engage in are not associated with pedophilia, nor motivated by this particular perversion. The road to Hell is broad.

That is totally irrelevant to the point that I made. The confirmation of a subset says nothing at all about the larger set.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 2:07 PM  

IIRC, Vox made a post using pretense as a heuristic for evil, which I believe was much closer to the truth. Pedophiles thrive where pretense is sacred. But I expect Jesus' statement about the love of money will turn out to be the best predictor.

Can we agree that the most evil people will push the hardest for further evil, Aeoli?

Ceteris paribus, maybe.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:08 PM  

It's excellent as a heuristic.

Just because it's a heuristic doesn't mean it's a catchall.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 2:08 PM  

Surely to have A reliable evil-detector we need a reliable definition of what evil is and how it differs from something that is merely bad.

No, we don't. You are making the same mistake as Aeoli. The fact that it reliably detects evil does not mean that it reliably detects all evils.

It is a tool designed to smoke out evil philosophies, not evil actions.

Blogger Ronin F9 April 19, 2018 2:08 PM  

Not a lefty wrote:Working someone to death building a bridge is called forced labor, slavery. This example is the bridge over the river quai, not building the Brooklyn bridge where all the workers were there voluntarily, even if some of them died during construction. Of course it's evil and so is the intent. Death is part and parcel of the package from the beginning.

What is the difference between forced labor and conscription into military service? The argument can be made that fighting a war, a decidedly deadly occupation, is "good for the nation" and the same can be said about the less lethal endeavor of building a bridge. There is also consideration of how forced laborers and conscripted soldiers a treated. Stalin, for example, didn't treat his soldiers much better than his gulag prisoners.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:11 PM  

"What is the difference between forced labor and conscription into military service?"

One is necessarily considered to be your duty, as a fit, military age male, to your nation.

The other may or may not be.

Blogger Jay April 19, 2018 2:20 PM  

"On average, girls begin puberty at ages 10–11; boys at ages 11–12. Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17, while boys usually complete puberty by ages 16–17. The major landmark of puberty for females is menarche, the onset of menstruation, which occurs on average between ages 12–13; for males, it is the first ejaculation, which occurs on average at age 13."
-https://infogalactic.com/info/Puberty

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2018 2:22 PM  

kurt9 wrote:The idea of having sex with children is quite disgusting to me. I do not see how pedophilia can be that common.

You have simply not been paying attention lately. Even most of the nominated Fed judges have got their nods so the elite can get away with stealing and using children in the USA. It was about to get ubiquitous in the USA, but the God Emperor is stopping it. It's been common in the UK for years.

I do not know how much of this will come out, but there are monsters out there, and most are the elite.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 2:23 PM  

You're wrong. You didn't even understand it correctly

You are claiming that New Testament reinterpretations are typically motivated by a desire to rationalize sex with children. You're wrong, but if I give any specific example it will be useless because the explosion principle says it will be possible to construct a syllogism from the logical error to pedophilia, and then claim that was the motivation all along.

Blogger Brett baker April 19, 2018 2:24 PM  

Ohio and a couple other states are 16. 18 was used because you would probably be ready to leave the house.

Blogger FALPhil April 19, 2018 2:25 PM  

I'd say 14 is too low and 18 is too high. 15, 16, or 17 is okay.
Considering that prior to about 22-23, the frontal lobes of the brain are not fully developed, 15-17 would be marginal at best.

Blogger CM April 19, 2018 2:30 PM  

Considering that prior to about 22-23, the frontal lobes of the brain are not fully developed, 15-17 would be marginal at best.

Developing brain isn't a reason to not teach babies or toddlers how to function.

Maybe if we allowed them to practice adulthood earlier, they wouldn't make for such dysfunctional 30 year olds.

Blogger haus frau April 19, 2018 2:30 PM  

"@48
@43
Can we all agree that 12 yo is too young, even if couple are same age plus or minus 2 years?"

Absolutely. NO debate there.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:30 PM  

"You are claiming that New Testament reinterpretations"

Stop right there Aeoli, you're already wrong.

Blogger Brett baker April 19, 2018 2:31 PM  

Ohio and a couple other states are 16. 18 was used because you would probably be ready to leave the house.

Blogger Mocheirge April 19, 2018 2:32 PM  

I sometimes wonder if pedophilia is some sort of "r" adaptation to indiscriminate promiscuity. More partners leads to more STDs. Seeking younger prey is a way to minimize health risks.

Which kind of reinforces VD's heuristic: a (((culture))) pushing promiscuity is indirectly promoting pedophilia.

Blogger Lovekraft April 19, 2018 2:33 PM  

My general observation of the progressive 'march through the common society' (they already ruined 'the institutions') is that prior to the Trumpening, they were still going full steam ahead. But then something happened between the antifa whitechimpouts and now. A clear retreat from their taunting.

And yes, it is nothing more than taunting. "What are you gonna do about it, huh?". That sort of thing. So the alt-right, primarily, squared up to them and the current situation is clear - they're hiding, they know they've been exposed as satanic and psychotic.

This is still nothing of a victory for us however. We still need to clean out many institutions. Their 'charters' have to be scrapped and rewritten so that the progressive agenda is explicitly forbidden (start with the Boy Scouts).

However, I have observed a few forays into making witchcraft palatable to the public. God only knows what Madonna, Behar, Dunham, Gaga, Cyrus and Perry are 'cooking up.'

Blogger Johnny April 19, 2018 2:34 PM  

Ronin F9 wrote:What is the difference between forced labor and conscription into military service?

Viewing conscript labor as evil is a modern innovation. And even slavery has not been judged as evil until the last few hundred years.

Until the widespread use of money, industrial society, and the various business structures, the use of forced labor was common. Islam even has a moral edict against releasing a slave if the reason is to avoid seeing to his welfare. Say letting him go during a famine or in old age.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 2:34 PM  

Here is an analogous error:

1. All means of fraud will eventually be used to defraud retirees.
2. Therefore, fraudulent activity may be reliably detected by observing how it may be used to defraud retirees.

Blogger Carl Philipp April 19, 2018 2:35 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Damn Crackers April 19, 2018 2:37 PM  

I've always said our political system is designed to f*ck children, whether financially or literally.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 19, 2018 2:43 PM  

Aeoli, reliability of detection uses two different metrics. One is how many times it detects targets.

The other is how few times it detects non-targets.

Because said heuristic is only for detection of evil (and not explicitly all evil), as long as it's finding some positives, and it's not finding false positives, its record is perfect.

Whether or not most misinterpretations of the OT are made with the primary goal of normalizing pedophilia is a different matter.

Blogger David Power April 19, 2018 2:49 PM  

It is a tool designed to smoke out evil philosophies, not evil actions.

Fair enough. I wasn't knocking this post in any way whatsoever. The Gospel makes it crystal clear how repugnant these crimes children are.

However, seeing as you have dismissed Peterson's definition of Evil, what's yours?

Blogger Drew April 19, 2018 2:50 PM  

Sex with children is literally the entire motivation behind the "transgender youth" movement.
Because if your pre-pubescent child can consent to undergoing permanent, life-altering hormone and other treatments, consenting to sex with an adult is insignificant by comparison.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 19, 2018 2:51 PM  

haus frau wrote:"@48

@43

Can we all agree that 12 yo is too young, even if couple are same age plus or minus 2 years?"

Absolutely. NO debate there.


13?

Blogger Skelly April 19, 2018 3:03 PM  

If we use the half your age plus 7 rule, it bottoms out at 14 years old. Assuming a marital situation where the male should be providing for a wife and future children, you end up with an 18-19 year old male and a 16 year old female. Sounds about right to me.

Blogger Carl Philipp April 19, 2018 3:14 PM  

"Whether or not most misinterpretations of the OT are made with the primary goal of normalizing pedophilia is a different matter."

Most of the CRAZY-SEEMING misinterpretations, to bring the context back.

Such as Sanhedrin 54, in which it is discussed the specific details of whether pederasty actually counts as such depending on whether the child has reached the age of sexual maturity at age 9, and whether the older partner is pitching or catching. But don't worry - sure, some rabbi tried to argue that the age should be 3 instead of 9, but the argument was resolved in favor of the age being 9.

I can only presume that they do this to provide a very difficult test for the children, and when the children pass the test by incorporating their trauma into their personality and becoming a homosexual, nobody is happier than the satan.

Blogger dienw April 19, 2018 3:17 PM  

Out of Nod wrote:Jeremiah 29:8-9

The Lord who rules over all is the God of Israel. He says, "Do not let the prophets trick you. Do not be fooled by those who claim to have secret knowledge. Do not listen to people who try to explain dreams to you. All of them are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," announces the Lord."


Thank you.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 3:22 PM  

Azure, I can't make this any simpler than by using analogies. Let me try another one.

1. Communism always eventually starves children.
2. Therefore, a reliable way to detect communists is to find out how their philosophies could be used to starve children.

Blogger Damn Crackers April 19, 2018 3:23 PM  

@85 - Do you think this is where the Islamic hadiths got the age of consummation of Aisha as 9 years old?

BTW, the Islamic calendar is lunar. So, Aisha was about 8 and a half when Mohammed banged her.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 3:26 PM  

FWIW, I'm all for the general principle of thinking like a predator to catch a predator. But it is a terrible idea to suggest that heretics are generally pedophiles.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 19, 2018 3:36 PM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:@43Can we all agree that 12 yo is too young, even if couple are same age plus or minus 2 years?

Yes. That's consent to marriage, not consent to hookups. For consenting to hookups, I'd suggest that is never appropriate.

Having watched my daughters grow up, 16 might be a little young for marriage. 18 would be fine.

At what age are women's bodies fully ready for child bearing as opposed to able to get pregnant? I seem to recall pregnancy earlier than 16 is high risk?

Blogger MendoScot April 19, 2018 3:43 PM  

Related: The Podesta Group has collapsed - bankrupt. Seems Hillary losing the election lost them all their clients.

The article goes into considerable detail about Tony Podesta's pedo-creepy art collection and his strange attachment to it. He refused to put it up as collateral for a loan to keep the company running.

It mentions PizzaGate twice, once as "discredited", but the second time as "unconfirmed". Alefantis gets a hat tip.

The most interesting bit was the analysis of the company's financial management as being ideal for money laundering...

Podesta Group was a nebulous organization with no board oversight and all financial decisions made by Tony Podesta. Carlson’s source said payments and kickbacks could be hard for investigators to trace, describing it as a “highly secret treasure trove.” One employee’s only official job was to manage Tony Podesta’s art collection, which could be used to conceal financial transactions.

Blogger MendoScot April 19, 2018 3:55 PM  

Mocheirge wrote:I sometimes wonder if pedophilia is some sort of "r" adaptation to indiscriminate promiscuity. More partners leads to more STDs. Seeking younger prey is a way to minimize health risks.

See Gardasil for details.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 3:56 PM  

You are claiming that New Testament reinterpretations are typically motivated by a desire to rationalize sex with children.

No. You are hopelessly, haplessly wrong here, Aeoli. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 3:58 PM  

Here is an analogous error:

No. That is not analogous. Again, you clearly don't understand it. The assumptions you are making are entirely false.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 3:59 PM  

FWIW, I'm all for the general principle of thinking like a predator to catch a predator. But it is a terrible idea to suggest that heretics are generally pedophiles.

No one has suggested that. Again, you are achieving nothing except to demonstrate your inability to understand the heuristic.

Blogger Gloriam Deo April 19, 2018 4:03 PM  

Age of consent is simple: post-puberty with time allowed for mental maturation. 16-18 fits that time frame reasonably well. If our culture and parenting was worth a damn anymore, we would likely see more young women in that age group get married.

Blogger Garuna April 19, 2018 4:03 PM  

The idea of having sex with children is quite disgusting to me. I do not see how pedophilia can be that common.

According to research, leftists don't have a strong sense of "disgust". This is why they can so openly engage in degenerate behaviors. And they'll often say "isn't disgust just a combination of fear and hate? Why do you fear equality, diversity, sexual liberation" etc. They literally can't feel disgust as much as normal people. They don't even know exactly what it is.

I would switch "leftism" to "people with low socio-sexual status". That's what the SJW leftists are, and it would also include our fake allies who are soft on pedos.

Blogger Desdichado April 19, 2018 4:05 PM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:With advances in health and education, the age of consent necessarily moved older. I think that all can agree that changing the age of consent to, say, 21 yo, is unreasonable. We all can agree that under, say, 16, is unreasonable.

Whatever the age of consent ought to be, 17 or 18 is about right, on this issue, we should not condemn previous generations by today's standard.

No, the opposite. We're condemning today's generation by previous generations' standards.

As to what it "should" be, there shouldn't be an age of consent. Consent means "ask the father."

Blogger Desdichado April 19, 2018 4:07 PM  

Garuna wrote:I would switch "leftism" to "people with low socio-sexual status". That's what the SJW leftists are, and it would also include our fake allies who are soft on pedos.
That's just nitpicking, though. Those sets overlap so much that for purposes of generalization, they can be considered the same thing.

Blogger FALPhil April 19, 2018 4:08 PM  

@70 Developing brain isn't a reason to not teach babies or toddlers how to function.

Maybe if we allowed them to practice adulthood earlier, they wouldn't make for such dysfunctional 30 year olds.


That is entirely possible. I have always thought there should be no legal age limit on drinking or smoking and that the legal lower age limit for driving was too high.

OpenID markstoval April 19, 2018 4:17 PM  

My maternal grandmother got married in Tennessee at 15 to a man a couple of years older than her. She had 3 boys and 1 girl. She lived a long life married to the same man who provided for her very well all of her life. He outlived her by a few years.

Her daughter is my mother who married at 17 and gave birth to me at 18. She married poorly and a divorce happened after 2 years of marriage. Her second marriage lasted decades. She has outlived all three husbands. (a widow twice over)

I went to college and so did not marry until I was 22. The woman is still married to me after over 4 decades for some reason. (poor taste in men perhaps)

I think that my grandmother married young and married well. My other grandmother married at 15 and had one husband who provided for her well all her life also. He lived a few years longer than she did.

I think both my grandmothers had the right to get married at 15. Note that all families and preachers where in agreement in both cases. Being married with full support of family, community, and church does help a lot it seems.

Blogger dvdivx April 19, 2018 4:22 PM  

The problem stems from the age of marriageablity vs age of consent. I have no problems with dropping the age of marriage to 16 especially for girls. The current system is just a reflection of feminism
Dropping the age of consent however is just wanting to have sex with kids without the responsibilities of marriage. Other than outright slavery that has always been prohibited.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 19, 2018 4:23 PM  

@101 "Being married with full support of family, community, and church does help a lot it seems."

Absolutely, and not just for the very young.

Blogger Garuna April 19, 2018 4:25 PM  

On the whole "age of consent" discussion:

It's impossible comprehend how some people can encourage sex between underage kids and then act all offended when an adult has sex with those same kids. Kids should not be sexually active AT ALL. Neither with adults. Nor with each other.

In fact, sex before marriage is degenerate and should be illegal. If someone breaks the law: shotgun wedding. "Age of consent" should be "Age of marriageability". And it should be set between 16-18. Schools should be gender-segregated. Arranged marriages should be the predominant system of marriage. There should be social penalties to the kind of promiscuity we see today. Christianity should be mandatory and the church should be a more involved institution that polices this stuff.

But it is impossible to impose something like this in modern America. Modern Western sexuality is beyond saving. Perhaps after the USA collapses/partitions, we can have a better system.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 4:28 PM  

@50- I would be inclined to agree with you, except for a couple things:

1). There is a stigma associated with sex crimes. Having to register as a sex offender makes everyone think you're John Wayne Gacey, and that may be too high a burden for 19 year-olds who do 16 or younger.

2). You are right that we should encourage girls to mate with men who can support them. There's almost zero social value in two teenagers having sex. Though obviously it will happen no matter what, we need not encourage it.

However, we no longer live in a culture that pressures older, better-off men to support the girls they use. Which may make them no different than only slightly-older cards. But there's a certain type of predator that takes advantage of younger people in a manner much, much worse than a 19 year-old can normally manage. Even if the one being taken advantage of can otherwise consent.

Possibly we should just have differing levels of punishment. Have consent be consent, but sex criminals either live with the Mark of Cain for all time or they get off relatively easily based on the circumstances.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 4:38 PM  

@91-When they say Pizzagate has been discredited, they mean specifically the idea that Comet Pizza was the locus of a satanic child abuse circle in D.C.

The larger possible fact of paedophiliac corruption, sexual exploitation rings, and talking about such things in code have never been discredited.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 19, 2018 4:42 PM  

My context is marriage but, are going to prosecute promiscuity? Given the times we live in, it is not likely.

Then, we are left with a law that is reasonable when enforced with regards as to when a male or a female are of an age of consent ... even for marriage, BTW.

Also, I do not think that we want to prosecute two 11 yo and charge one of them with rape, as well as fornication. A 12 and an 11 yo.?

Age and age disparity plays into the equation.

BTW, I youngest is a young lady in college. I could not fathom her being married at 16.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 4:42 PM  

@89- "it is a terrible idea to suggest that heretics are generally pedophiles"

No one suggested that. The point being made is that a reliable way to tell that someone is evil is that they justify, excuse, etc. sex with children.

See the difference?

OpenID bgkoranburner April 19, 2018 4:50 PM  

Planned Parrenthood tells kids not to disclose HIV+.

"These laws violate the rights of people living with HIV by forcing them to disclose or face the possibility of criminal charges."

"How does the IPPF justify telling HIV-positive kids it's okay not to tell your partner you have a deadly communicable disease? Rights of course. The left has an uncanny way of discovering rights most of us can't even imagine."
" the number of 10-to-19-year-olds dying from AIDS-related diseases has tripled since 2000,"

https://pjmedia.com/parenting/planned-parenthood-sex-ed-tells-kids-aids-healthy-happy-hot-real/

Blogger Unknown April 19, 2018 4:54 PM  

@Aeoli

When festooning a man's monument with the garlands of commentary, one must be wary of displeasing the man. Whatever you are trying to say will then become something about him, despite the protestations. Necessary bridling can turn into unbridled self-interest in a heartbeat.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 4:56 PM  

@82- The homo rights movement is largely secretly about that, too. Because in those "communities," adolescence is prized above all else.

Take for instance the openly gay New Wave band Bronski Beat and their song Small Town Boy. Which, if I recall the music video correctly, is about a teen tormented by bullies and a family that doesn't "get" him (man) running away to the big city. I suppose into the arms of some understanding queen.

That song was featured on an album titled Age of Consent. One or some of the members of Bronski Beat went on to form a band called the Communards.

The connections are in the open if you know what to look for.

Blogger Anno Ruse April 19, 2018 5:06 PM  

"And if you try to make the subject about me again, you'll be spammed. You have been warned. Do not ever attempt to use me or anything to do with me as an example."

Don't post so much personal stuff and people won't make it personal. It's your own fault you moved to Italy, Vox. It's your own fault you bash people trying to save America after you abandoned it. You can spam people for pointing this stuff out, but it doesn't make any of it untrue.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 5:06 PM  

Sorta OT: Dirty Underbelly Watch

I've been paying attention to the world of prostitution (i.e. "sex work"). As we all know, in the wake of new sex trafficking laws, Backpage was shut down and at least one of its founders prosecuted. Craigslist halted escort ads, and various other internet advertising venues have also shut down. A major hooker review site, the Erotic Review, cut itself off from U.S. visitors.

Perusing "sex worker" comments on social media, I see they're antsy and have adopted a bunker mentality. I saw at least one say she had her credit card account cancelled because she used it to buy ads on an escort site. That may have been Citicard, not sure. But it's nice to see them going after something besides guns.

Lastly, I understand a major verification site--which offers hookers convenient means of ascertaining whether potential Johns are real people and likely not to murder them, as well as advertising girls (and trannies, probably) to men--has stopped accepting new members. Customers and sellers alike.

Real stuff is happening in this world. Of course, the oldest profession is not going away, but it's fine by me if going after pedophiles makes their lives tougher.

Blogger Crew April 19, 2018 6:17 PM  

@13: Ruth Ginsburg was strongly advocating reducing the age of consent to 12.

I have read the document that most people get that claim for, and I do not believe it supports that claim.

She was talking about making it possible for a female to be charged with sex offenses if having sex with an under-age individual, not advocating for lowering the age of consent to 12.

I believe RBG should not be on the SC and that she is mainly motivated by (((tribal))) interests, but I don't believe that she has ever wanted to reduce age of consent to 12!

Blogger Crew April 19, 2018 6:18 PM  

Perusing "sex worker" comments on social media

Surely, there is no such thing as a "sex worker!"

Workers produce value!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 19, 2018 6:32 PM  

This is why you should never, ever steal a basketball.

Blogger Wolfman at Large April 19, 2018 6:36 PM  

THOU SHALL NOT EAT BABIES!

MOSES I NEED YOU TO WRITE THIS ONE DOWN, BRO.

"Don't the other commandments cover this sort of thing?"

YES BUT PEOPLE ARE STUPIO AND I WANT THIS ONE POINT MADE AS CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE.

Blogger pyrrhus April 19, 2018 6:40 PM  

In Illinois, the age of consent is 17, but it's 18 with respect to any authority figure, which includes teachers. This has proven a highly relevant distinction with respect to some high school teachers who no longer have jobs.....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2018 6:42 PM  

"Trying to save America" by being bitchy online at a guy who won't sleepvwith him. (Her? Doesn't matter)

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 19, 2018 6:43 PM  

Anyone conflating age of marriage and age of "consent" is dishonest and their motives suspect. It is also ridiculous to cite historical marriage ages as apropos to anything without normalizing for change in life expectancy and the age when other social responsibilities are assumed.

It really is all about having sex with children.

Blogger pyrrhus April 19, 2018 6:44 PM  

@109 Planned Parrenthood tells kids not to disclose HIV+.

PP Arizona has been caught advising girls not to report rape or incest, although that is required by law...Apparently that could interrupt the abortion gravy train.
I think VD's comments about evil might have some application here...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2018 6:47 PM  

I believe RBG should not be on the SC and that she is mainly motivated by (((tribal))) interests, but I don't believe that she has ever wanted to reduce age of consent to 12!
I would frankly be surprised if she didn't. In Jewish law, the age of consent is twelve. And uncle marriage is legal. You're projecting your cultural standards on people who clearly and explicitly reject them.

Blogger Crew April 19, 2018 6:52 PM  

With respect to the claims about RBG, see, first:

https://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/usccr/documents/cr12se9.pdf, page 102.

Then go look at 18USC S 2032 (which has been repealed) and note what it was:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title18/html/USCODE-2009-title18.htm

Section 2032, act June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 795, prescribed penalties for carnal knowledge of female under 16 within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction.

Note, that the change was requested by one or more of the authors, but we do not know if RBG penned that change, and it said:

18 U.S.C. §2032 — Eliminate the phrase "carnal knowledge of any female, not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years" and substitute a Federal, sex-neutral definition of the offense patterned after S. 1400 §1633: A person is guilty
of an offense if he engages in a sexual act with another person, not his spouse, and (1) compels the other person to participate: (A) by force or (B) by threatening or placing the other person in fear that any person will imminently be subjected to death, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping; (2) has substantially impaired the other person's power to appraise or control the conduct by administering or
employing a drug or intoxicant without the knowledge or against the will of
such other person, or by other means; or (3) the other person is, in fact, less
than 12 years old.


Read the whole document because there is plenty to object to, but anyone who claims RBG advocated reducing the age of consent to 12 based on that wording is being seriously dishonest, IMO.

However, I think she should not be on the SC!

Blogger Damn Crackers April 19, 2018 6:53 PM  

Can't we just send all our pedophiles to Mexico? It would be an even trade.

Blogger Robert What? April 19, 2018 7:00 PM  

As long as we're not talking about a 15 year old girl "child" having sex with her 17 year old boyfriend and him being charged with "child abuse". That happened to the son of an acquaintance of mine.

Blogger John rockwell April 19, 2018 7:02 PM  

After contrasting the holy bible with Muhammad's evil act. This is the law of the minimum age of marriage according to the Hebrews as far as we know:

''A non-Christian Jewish commentary writes regarding 16:6-8:
God wills the abandoned infant to live. She lives and grows to puberty… Upon reaching puberty, she is ready for marriage… (The Jewish Study Bible: Tanakh Translation, Torah, Nevi'im, Kethuvim (Hardcover) [Oxford University Press, October 2003], p. 1069)''



''
The Mishnah sets the age of maturity for a female at twelve years and six months:
"she won her case in court before she matured [at the age of twelve years and six months], lo, they belong to the father." Mishnah Ketubot, 4:1.
The Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible in volume 2, page 1407, under "Marriage", states this about Jewish marriage customs:
"Subsequently, minimum ages (for marriage) of 13 for boys and 12 for girls were set."
Jim West, Th.D., writes in an online article titled, "Ancient Israelite Marriage Customs":
"The wife was to be taken from within the larger family circle (usually at the ‘outset of puberty’ or around the age of 13) in order to maintain the purity of the family line."

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/marriage_age.htm

Blogger Vaughan Williams April 19, 2018 7:48 PM  

Age of consent should be on the wedding night.

Blogger MickDundee April 19, 2018 8:03 PM  

Is sucking a baby boy’s bloody member considered evil? Asking on behalf of a rabbi.

Blogger Jack April 19, 2018 8:06 PM  

If anyone doubts that this evil is a widespread problem, read the first six chapters of David McGowan's book Programmed to Kill.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 8:09 PM  

When festooning a man's monument with the garlands of commentary, one must be wary of displeasing the man. Whatever you are trying to say will then become something about him, despite the protestations. Necessary bridling can turn into unbridled self-interest in a heartbeat.

That's a good point. Stress is making me more autistic than usual.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 8:12 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 8:15 PM  

Dammit, that still came out pretty incoherent from substitution errors. I blame the impending auto industry implosion.

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 8:17 PM  

FWIW, I did some reflection and here's what I came up with. Unapologetic autism follows, YMMV.

Vox is responding in the greater context of Talmudism, so everyone understands he's talking about that specifically, even if he didn't do so literally. So his "heuristic" was a sort of tongue-in-cheek set theory statement "All theories which advocate pedophilia are evil". I.e. We know Talmudism is evil because it advocates pedophilia. For some reason people think I'm reinterpreting this as "All evil theories advocate pedophilia".

But because he was being sarcastic when writing it, the literal statements he made said something significantly different than this, and I sperged out over the literal, incorrect meaning rather than reading the coherent intended meaning, expressed sarcastically. Takeaway: I revert to type under stress and lose my ability to understand neurotypical communication.

/autism

Blogger Aeoli April 19, 2018 8:32 PM  

And if you don't mind one last bit of sperging, this may indicate something deeper about the nature of autism. It's like I fixated on the local variables to the exclusion of global variables, which would have produced the correct behavior (understanding) in the correct operating system (audience), except my emulator was crashed.

The failure to solve "expectation of expectation" theory of mind problems may be explained by this local-then-global ("bottom-up") perceptual style where the neurotypical model is global-then-local ("top-down"). So the autistic mind puts small objects into categories first, then assembles a big picture from components, where the NT mind perceives the whole room's "vibe" first, putting it into a category of similar holistic experiences, then begins to recognize smaller details.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 8:48 PM  

Vox is responding in the greater context of Talmudism, so everyone understands he's talking about that specifically, even if he didn't do so literally. So his "heuristic" was a sort of tongue-in-cheek set theory statement "All theories which advocate pedophilia are evil". I.e. We know Talmudism is evil because it advocates pedophilia. For some reason people think I'm reinterpreting this as "All evil theories advocate pedophilia".

No, Aeoli, you are STILL wrong.

But because he was being sarcastic when writing it, the literal statements he made said something significantly different than this, and I sperged out over the literal, incorrect meaning rather than reading the coherent intended meaning, expressed sarcastically.

I am not being sarcastic in the slightest. I am being completely literal. If you look at various high-minded philosophies from Walter Breen to Sam Delaney to Marion Zimmer Bradley to the "open the third-eye occultists", they all have at least one thing in common.

And that one thing is having sex with children.

Hence the utility of the heuristic. There is nothing tongue-in-cheek about it, and it is effective because it exposes the truth of other philosophies that people do not as easily recognize as being evil, such as Judaism or hedonism.

Blogger VD April 19, 2018 8:49 PM  

The failure to solve "expectation of expectation" theory of mind problems may be explained by this local-then-global ("bottom-up") perceptual style where the neurotypical model is global-then-local ("top-down"). So the autistic mind puts small objects into categories first, then assembles a big picture from components, where the NT mind perceives the whole room's "vibe" first, putting it into a category of similar holistic experiences, then begins to recognize smaller details.

That's the conventional programmer/engineer problem, usually described as being unable to see the forest for the trees.

Blogger tublecane April 19, 2018 9:05 PM  

@132- Autism isn't the problem here, at least in the sense of taking things too literally. One need not know anything of the context to understand the point in the original post. Actually, I think the context is what's tripping you up.

Vox said that if something does this (justify etc. sex with children), then it's that (evil). That's the basic, straightforward meaning, and no secret decoder ring is necessary.

Blogger OneWingedShark April 19, 2018 10:51 PM  

Bogey wrote:...why was 18 eventually agreed upon?
Because 18 is the age of majority (the age at which full civil rights are accorded) in the US.

Sherwood family wrote:Historically, when some of these younger (too young) ages of consent held sway there was an understanding that people would also marry quite a bit younger than they do now. In other words, with physical maturity (read nubility) should come commensurate social responsibility and accountability. The idea of youth running around sleeping with people willy nilly as they do today was unconscionable. If you were of an age to have sex you should marry and take on all the outcomes that came with it.

Of course, 10 is really much younger than historical onset of menarche in females and certainly below the age of puberty in males. So I am not entirely sure what was going on or why this was allowed to exist. There is probably some legal idea that I do not know about.

It was probably to allow for arranged marriages to be carried out a bit more flexibly -- it wouldn't be right for a young woman to be living with a non-related man, but a husband is ok... the few extra years before actual puberty would allow for the material-upkeep (food/clothes) to be put upon the husband to relieve some of the costs of the then-large average sized families, while giving her some time to learn the particular duties she would be expected to attend to.

Despite the "bad press" that arranged marriages have in US society, I wonder if they are really all that bad. One of the biggest complaints against it is, essentially, "what if my parents throw me in a horrible, loveless relationship!?"... but, honestly, which parents don't want their children to be happy?

Blogger MendoScot April 19, 2018 11:24 PM  

Bronski Beat

The original video, 4 decades ago.

We were all warned.

Blogger Sherwood family April 19, 2018 11:32 PM  

Actually, based on real world data arranged marriages have a pretty good track record. That said, I have seen some become hell on earth in a lot of ways especially when extended familial concerns override consideration of the ultimate success of the match.

However, one of the reasons they usually tend to function, from a societal standpoint at least, is that everyone enters the relationship with the understanding that this is, in large measure, a working partnership.

People that live where such systems of marriage are common avoid a couple of problems we have in the West.

They avoid entering a marriage with idiotic notions about what marriage "means" i.e. they do not believe it plays out like some extended "chick flick" where you are overwhelmed by a continuous tidal wave of oxytocin, dopamine, and seratonin and you will always be "in love." In fact, in most arranged marriages there is no expectation at all you will feel "romantic love" for your spouse, at least initially. So if that feeling isn't there people do not dissolve a marriage because feeling "in love" is not the raison d'etre of marriage as far as these cultures go.

They also understand that the primary purpose of marriage is to create a means of managing the outcomes of sex in the least damaging way possible for individuals and society. Children are a natural byproduct of sex and to expect otherwise is to be either ignorant of basic anatomy/physiology or to be some kind of weirdo. A married couple is expected to produce children, even required. (This has its own problems, especially in cases of infertility but that is a different subject.) The concept of marriage as an extended adult vacation where there is abundant sex with children as only an after thought to be brought into the world when the couple has had their fun is a non-starter.

In arranged marriages the family also has an interest in finding someone who is a good match in the sense of making sure the couple is "equally yoked" rather than the kinds of lunacy we see in the West of people marrying partners where there are fundamental discrepancies that "love" induces the couple to try to paper over.

The parents tend to be more clear eyed about it. They know the spouse is going to have to mesh well with them also and that glaring difference of language, religion, ethnic background, socio-economic position, political alignment, etc. are all real and may take a considerable toll on the life of the couple and interactions in the extended family.

There are certainly downsides to the system and I could list those at length. But it is a good deal less stupid than the current system we have in the United States of a kind of dating roulette that encourages people to debauch friends and acquaintances indiscriminately over a lengthy period until everyone's prime reproductive years are spent induced barrenness and then as the "Wall" looms to scramble to create a viable long term relationship with someone who was initially picked up as a one night stand.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 20, 2018 12:09 AM  

Slow down and read carefully.

Yeah - I’ve already had my daily recommended dose of irony.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 20, 2018 12:32 AM  

"There's almost zero social value in two teenagers having sex. Though obviously it will happen no matter what"

Rather, it will happen until sufficient creature comforts are sacrificed. There are definitely ways to completely stop it, the only question is if society is hurting enough to make those sacrifices.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 12:57 AM  

Well then, I have a counterexample:

http://bobhighlands.faith/phone/3dm-warning.html

This 3DM group is the one that took down North Heights Lutheran Church in Arden Hills, MN, and they are "rescuing" the failing churches in greater Detroit. The pedophilia heuristic fails to detect the evil of Mike Breen's philosophy, yet it is obs3rvably evil.

Blogger Bobiojimbo April 20, 2018 1:05 AM  

After one conversation with someone who wanted to lower the age of consent, I later realized he was just looking to retro-actively legalize his sex with a minor (he 18, she 16 at the time). I don't know the consent laws of when or where it happened.

Blogger Nell Fenwick April 20, 2018 1:08 AM  

Plain meaning of OT may be an oxymoron.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 1:19 AM  

This is what I mean by observably evil:

"You will find that Mike Breen, the leader of 3dm, is also the Senior Guardian of the Order of Mission, a self-proclaimed “neo-monastic order.” The Order of Mission aspires to be a small, radically committed group of people who will seek to usher in the next great awakening or next large move of God." (from http://www.schooleyfiles.com/2013/11/mike-breen-and-building-discipling.html?m=1)

There are a lot of other warning signs (e.g. they're fucking Anglicans), but that one should be a red flag on its own.

Blogger Bobiojimbo April 20, 2018 1:21 AM  

@MickDundee "Is sucking a baby boy’s bloody member considered evil?"

Yes. https://nypost.com/2012/09/02/despite-baby-dying-after-getting-herpes-orthodox-rabbis-say-theyll-defy-law-on-ancient-circumcision-ritual/

I know you were probably being rhetorical, but for anyone who doesn't know.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 1:27 AM  

Regarding age of consent, I'm not convinced the concept ought to exist in the first place. If it does, it ought to be much higher than the age of marriageability, which should be in the 99th percentile of finished puberty. So if the end of puberty for women has an average of 16 and an SD of 1 year, 18 or 19 is a sane cutoff. But I don't know what the actual numbers are, this is just based on the observation that it's bad for people when you interrupt their hormonal development.

Blogger Wayne April 20, 2018 1:27 AM  

Vox, you left out marinated in wickedness.

Blogger Bobiojimbo April 20, 2018 1:40 AM  

@David Power "At what point would you say something that is merely hurtful, becomes something evil?"

Intent.

Blogger Sherwood family April 20, 2018 2:57 AM  

There is probably no way to completely stop unmarried teenagers from having sex with each other. But there are ways to make it so rare that any given instance is seen as an undesirable anomaly. There are all kinds of ways you could deal with marriage, fertility, sex, and children in ways that would make more sense. What we are doing now is completely destructive.

1) Encourage earlier marriages. If most young people prepared to marry in their late teens (for females) early twenties (for males) you could head off a whole bunch of problems associated with random purposeless copulation.

2) Maintain relatively strict segregation between the sexes until marriage. Schools, if you have to send your children there, should not be coeducational. It is a waste of everyone's time to have teenagers in that kind of proximity trying to rut all the time.

3) Impose harsh societal stigmas and sanctions against illicit sex. (Loss of status is more important in curbing female sexuality than male sexuality but the fact that there is little stigma to playing the whore these days means that more people do so. Males, who are found out, should have to pay compensation to the father of the girls they deflower.)

4. Bastardy should be strictly controlled: Allowing unmarried girls who became pregnant to keep the baby after birth is a mistake for all involved. It retards her ability to move her life in a positive direction. And above all, it blights the life of the child. Girls unwilling or unable to marry the father of their child should be compelled to put their child up for adoption.

5. Sires of bastards or mothers of them should no longer be eligible for any government assistance.

6. A fertility "buy out" for impoverished populations should be offered: If you are 18 and have no bastard children you should be offered a vasectomy or tubal ligation, if you are on government assistance, in exchange for a one time cash pay out. Make the pay out as big as you want. This has a two fold positive effect: it incentivizes people to try to control their urges and not produce illegitimate children, even if only in exchange for cash, and it serves as a filter on future fertility. People who would trade in their future offspring for money are precisely the kind of people you don't want having children in the first place.

7. Married people with children who pay taxes should get perks. Figure out what perks those should be. But you are trying to make incentives that lead to the outcomes you want to see.

8. Alimony should only be permissible for divorce in cases with cause/fault or divorce that the wife did not initiate. Child support should only be required where there was divorce with cause or if the husband initiated divorce.

9. Written paternal permission should be required for marriage. Just because little princess wants to marry somebody doesn't mean she gets to. Dad gets formal veto power over useless suitors.

Not that I expect to see anything like these ideas put into law but they would get rid of quite a bit of stupid behavior in a pretty straight forward fashion. Of course, I am almost certainly not accounting for second order effects which might be all kinds of messed up. Anyway, we could hardly do worse than we are now.

Blogger Expendable Faceless Minion April 20, 2018 4:08 AM  

Some of them WERE imprisoned under the laws of their own times. Joseph Smith was lynched in jail.

Blogger VD April 20, 2018 10:51 AM  

Well then, I have a counterexample:

That's irrelevant, Aeoli. Just stop. You clearly don't understand it, so stop trying. It's like watching a chicken attempting to do quadratic equations.

You don't understand the difference between a set and a sub-set. We can all see that. So just give it up already. No one wants to listen to retards trying to explain Aristotle and we don't need autists trying to explain set theory either.

Blogger Pale Male April 20, 2018 11:14 AM  

David Power wrote:I think we can all agree that robbing a store for money is bad, but torturing the store keeper to death for fun is evil.
Harm done for the sake of doing harm.  The murders of Brittney Watts, Channon Christian, Jessica Chambers and Chelsea Beller were gross and undeniable acts of evil.  The criminals in those cases should die in the most painful and protracted way we can engineer (on camera), to deter anyone from doing such things ever again.

I've read a tale of a particularly heinous Black-on-White crime which was countered by a particularly harsh lynching:  the perp was tied to a tree and burned to death.  The bones were left in place.  The local Blacks reportedly didn't act up again for the better part of a century.

I'm no longer concerned with race relations, fairness or equality.  I want the predators literally scared to death of what we'll do if they don't leave us alone.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 20, 2018 12:14 PM  

It seems that age of consent ought to be defined.

Keeping it simple, I am excluding mental retardation out of the discussion.

Age of consent to me it means the same as age of accountability, the age at which a child become accountable as an adult.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 1:12 PM  

You don't understand the difference between a set and a sub-set.

I had the highest grade in my abstract algebra class, so you're at least wrong about that.

Blogger SirHamster April 20, 2018 4:17 PM  

Aeoli wrote:... The pedophilia heuristic fails to detect the evil of Mike Breen's philosophy, yet it is obs3rvably evil.

IG: "A heuristic technique (/hjᵿˈrɪstᵻk/; Ancient Greek: εὑρίσκω, "find" or "discover"), often called simply a heuristic, is any approach to problem solving, learning, or discovery that employs a practical method not guaranteed to be optimal or perfect, but sufficient for the immediate goals."

Finding a counterexample to a heuristic is like finding an error in a model.

Duh. The question is if the error breaks it.

Your counterexample being an alternative form of evil doesn't do it. (false negative) It doesn't contradict the heuristic's stated purpose of identifying (SOME) evil reliably. It was not advertised as a universal heuristic to identify ALL evil.

A useful counterexample would undermine the RELIABILITY of the heuristic, by finding a false positive. That is, a non-evil pedophiliac getting mislabeled evil by this heuristic.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 4:36 PM  

That is, a non-evil pedophiliac getting mislabeled evil by this heuristic.

I am assuming we all agree that pedophilia and advocating for pedophilia are both categorically evil, in which case we are discussing
tautalogy and not a heuristic. Is this assumption false?

But anyway, the original context is identifying evil-motivated interpretations of the old testament. I'm claiming the original heuristic can only be used to identify errors, and not evil motives, although evil is always accompanied by errors.

Blogger tublecane April 20, 2018 4:37 PM  

@156- "a non-evil pedophiliac getting mislabeled evil by this heuristic."

Unlikely. Theoretically there are people sexually attracted to minors who live perfectly moral lives. However, this heuristic is about people who justify, rationalize, excuse, etc. actual sex with children. I don't see how it's possible for such a person not to be evil.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 4:41 PM  

The explosion principle says it is possible to derive anything from a single contradiction. So in theory, any philosophy that contains the statement "there are five lights" somewhere in its corpus can justify pedophilia.

Blogger tublecane April 20, 2018 4:42 PM  

@157- I think it's possible to do something evil and not be evil. So it's not tautological, really. There's something special about the particular evil of justifying child rape that only thoroughly all-the-time evil people do.

"But anyway, the original context is identifying evil-motivated interpretations of the old testament."

This is why I said I think the context is tripping you up. Try forgetting it and just reading the words as written.

Blogger tublecane April 20, 2018 4:49 PM  

@159- That would be a pseudo-justification. Because once the contradiction is established, the reasoning is no longer valid.

In any case, that's only a matter of it becoming possible to falsely justify pedophilia. None but evil people it would appear actually go ahead and do so.

Also, it's not the justification of pedophilia we're talking about but actual sex with children.

Blogger Aeoli April 20, 2018 5:24 PM  

No, we are talking about justification.

Blogger SirHamster April 20, 2018 6:53 PM  

tublecane wrote:Unlikely.[...]

Agreed. Which makes Aeoli's attempt at correcting Vox quixotically futile.

Aeoli wrote:I am assuming we all agree that pedophilia and advocating for pedophilia are both categorically evil, in which case we are discussing

tautalogy and not a heuristic. Is this assumption false?


I made an equivocation between pedophilia advocacy and pedophilia. Correct category is non-evil pedophile advocate/apologist as a false-positive disproof of Vox's "reliable heuristic for evil".


But anyway, the original context is identifying evil-motivated interpretations of the old testament. I'm claiming the original heuristic can only be used to identify errors, and not evil motives, although evil is always accompanied by errors.

"... these crazy-seeming reinterpretations of the plain meaning of the Old Testament ..."

Which contextualizes it to the topics of the previous thread, and can be assumed to still be in effect unless otherwise stated.

But in any case, to do what you want to do, you need to provide false-positives, not false negatives. So you would need to provide a pedophile advocate who has no evil motives (heuristic incorrectly flags evil), rather than an evil person who is not a pedophile advocate (heuristic fails to flag evil).

OpenID vfmshadow0342 April 20, 2018 7:16 PM  

OT, but related: Hollywood actress arrested for role in sex cult: https://pagesix.com/2018/04/20/smallville-actress-allison-mack-arrested-in-connection-with-sex-slave-cult/

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:16 PM  

@31

"With advances in health and education, the age of consent necessarily moved older. I think that all can agree that changing the age of consent to, say, 21 yo, is unreasonable. We all can agree that under, say, 16, is unreasonable."

BS.
1. There is no draft -- which was the excuse for letting 18-year old's vote in the first place

2. We don't even let 18-year old drink wine, or smoke cigarettes ("you're too stupid to do what's right for yourself)... and yet we simultaneously say that they're smart enough to have a say in what happens to their neighbors, and even fellow citizens on the other side of the country.

No, we need a new law.

For at least federal elections -- you cannot vote for any candidate for an office if you are not qualified to hold that office yourself.

So, Nobody under 45, or who is an immigrant of any sort, can vote for President or Vice President.

Nobody under the age of 35 can vote for a Senator

Nobody under the age of 25 can vote for a


Of course, the left would NEVER go along with this, because the left REQUIRES gullible 18-25 year old kids to win elections. Very few people drift leftward as they age, but MANY drift to the right as they age.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:23 PM  

@34

"I may be taking this too far, but by that logic the Gulag system wasn't evil, because it produced lumber and ore."

Were those working in those work camps there because they were attracted by higher wages and other benefits (such as those who operated the port of Murmansk -- even the Soviets could not break the market for wages and benefits -- During the Soviet era, Murmansk's workers got higher wages AND 6-month vacations at Black sea resorts.>

No, of course not.
The Soviet Union threw people in the gulag for all sorts of things ... even for publishing Lenin's own words! even for BEING COMPETENT (Stalin saw anyone who was competent as a threat, and constantly looked to eradicate them from society).

So, unquestionably, the Soviet gulag is unqualified evil.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:31 PM  

@43

"I"m not the least bit surprised about De Niro. I hope all of this sees the light soon."

Taxi Driver was less acting and more just being himself....

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:34 PM  

@47

"This is the way our elite thinks about a lot of things, especially in academia. Not just the explicit frauds like deconstructivists, but in the supposed sciences, too.

It works best with subjects that are actually meaningless, like most modern/postmodern art."

--

And that's why I put up with the years of miserable hell that is Purdue Engineering.... because in the end, everything comes down to one TRUTH -- either it works, or it doesn't work. There's no room for sophistry, evasion, or snow jobs.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:46 PM  

@53

"The idea of having sex with children is quite disgusting to me. I do not see how pedophilia can be that common."

Recruitment.

Mass media is being flooded with under-consent girls being presented as sexual objects.

I don't know if you remember the commotion cause by how Natalie Portman was directed in the movie "Léon: The Professional." Of course, to keep plausible deniability, Leon doesn't act on the blatant presentation of availibility.

And other example ... it's not obvious to any normal person -- I only discovered this when it came up in a thread on some other site years ago:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lazytown+stephanie+porn&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 7:59 PM  

@57

"Pedophilia seems to be a great place to drop the hammer at present time.

The push is nigh and the arm is mighty."



Most of the public isn't ready for it. That's why the Q_ANON project is so important. The public needs to hear rumors for a at least a year, so that there's no cogdis reaction when the arrests are finally made on that front.


I know a man who was convicted of having a HUMUNGOUS stash of computer child porn and molesting his daughter. Can't see his own kids, not even with supervised visitation. Completely prohibited from spending ANY time where children might be, with the sole exception of going to buy groceries, or pick up a prescription. Not allowed to have any internet connectable devices -- not even a GPS with real-time traffic mapping or route-adjustment.

While he doesn't advertise it, he's open with those he trusts. (We were living in the same house for a few years. One night he broke down and was feeling suicidal).

I showed him some of the Pizzagate evidence when it first came out. He was IN that thing, and even he didn't believe it! Not even the Best Pizza, Comet Pizza, and Terrasol Pizza logos right out of the FBI's Pedophile Recognition Signals handbook.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 8:09 PM  

@63

"What is the difference between forced labor and conscription into military service? The argument can be made that fighting a war, a decidedly deadly occupation, is "good for the nation" and the same can be said about the less lethal endeavor of building a bridge. There is also consideration of how forced laborers and conscripted soldiers a treated. Stalin, for example, didn't treat his soldiers much better than his gulag prisoners."

Read the book Ivan's War: Life and Death in the Red Army, 1939-1945, by Catherine Merridale.

The author has a specific chapter on the Penal Battalions -- These were composed of men who had been convicted of felonies. They were supposed to perform human wave attacks. They were LITERALLY not allowed to retreat under any circumstances -- the machine-gunners in the follow-on units were instructed to shoot ANY and ALL men coming from the direction of the German lines -- including anyone wearing a Russian uniform, calling out for help in perfect Russian, while also visibly wounded.

The men who survived the penal battalions were GRATEFUL for the opportunity:
1) to redeem their name in the eyes of their family and neighbors
2) Most of the penal battalion personnel came from civilian prisons, and the gulags, NOT from court martial results.
3) Anyone who survived the war (and some did) had their sentence commuted to Time Served (they were not pardoned -- their convictions stayed on the books).

Blogger Dirk Manly April 20, 2018 8:15 PM  

@75

"My general observation of the progressive 'march through the common society' (they already ruined 'the institutions') is that prior to the Trumpening, they were still going full steam ahead. But then something happened between the antifa whitechimpouts and now. A clear retreat from their taunting."

Yeah, ANTIFA was declared a terrorist organization, giving all law enforcement at all levels not merely a green light, but a MANDATE to arrest any and all ANTIFA upon identification as such.

As the blacks say, "Shit got real", and going around commiting wanton acts of vandalism, arson, and unprovoked violence went from being a fun lark to automatic 10-year felony.

Blogger tublecane April 20, 2018 10:23 PM  

@167- I thought Travis Bickle was intended to be a righty. He shoots a black thug, targets a Man of the People politician, defends a young girl's virtue. Or not her virtue, but saved her from sexual exploitation.

Maybe it was the left's vision of a nutty right-winger. But I'm not sure about the writer, Paul Schrader. His later movies have deviationist tendencies. He made a movie about Japanese homo-fascist novelist Yukio Mishima, as well as the Bob Crane biopic Auto Focus, which was down on the sexual revolution.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 20, 2018 10:57 PM  

You will want to throw socialism onto that evil pyre. The medium of exchange in the first socialist cult was sex with early teenage children. Girls got thrown into beds with men they called father and uncle at age 12. Boys could wait until 14 to take on women they called mother and aunt. Noyes, Oneida.

Marx plagiarized Noyes' writings.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare April 21, 2018 11:08 PM  

@Aeoli: It's not intended to be a panacea, it's just a simple concept or if-then statement.

*If* a philosophy in any way encourages, advocates, defends etc, etc, having sex with children, *then* that philosophy is observably, unquestionably, evil.

Therefore, a reliable way to determine whether a philosophy is evil is to see if it does advocate (etc) sex with children.

This doesn't mean that a philosophy cannot be evil *unless* it advocates (etc) sex with children. It simply means that a philosophy *must* be evil *if* it advocates (etc) sex with children. Nothing more, nothing less.

I struggle sometimes with over-analyzing things as well, though I have gotten better with time, so I thought I would try to translate it in a way I would have understood it a few years ago. Of course I could be understanding it wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not...

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