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Saturday, April 28, 2018

Christianity is not an option

Strange, that Rod Dreher seems to think so, but he doesn't grasp that it is only the foundation built upon the rock that will stand:
I heard from a friend this morning who told me a story about a family we both know. A solid white working-class family. In the youngest generation, they’ve started falling apart in a way that will be hard to fix. It’s the usual Charles Murray Coming Apart thing: the loss of being bound by a sense of religious or traditional moral obligation, followed by a loss of a sense of the importance of marriage, especially for childbearing, and on down the line. Maybe they’ll pull out of this spiral, but odds are against them. I would bet money that some of them are thinking of the trouble they’re in as something that just happened to them. It’s like people who live in a nice house, but who wake up one day to discover that the yard has turned into a jungle of weeds, and the roof is leaking, and termites have eaten out the walls … and they wonder who came overnight and destroyed their nice house....

No social species can survive if its men (and women) are too drugged out and undisciplined to hold a job. No social species can survive if its people cannot make the adaptive imperatives that Wade Davis says all cultures must make. My dad was a civil servant and my mother was a school bus driver. My folks never had much money, and were, as I see now, living much closer to the edge than they let us know as kids. They didn’t want to burden us with anxiety. I also understand why my father instinctively imprinted the same taboos on his children. His basic code was:
  • Work hard, and above all things esteem those who do
  • Respect yourself and those around you, especially your elders
  • That means dress up for church, say “yes ma’am” and “yes sir,” “please” and “thank you,” and keep a clean yard
  • Be honest and fair
  • Do not lie, and that means in all things be true to your word
  • Be generous to others, but never expect anybody to give you anything
  • Kids need mamas and daddies, but a mama and/or a daddy who puts their own interests above doing right by their kids are of no account
  • Do not keep company with people who don’t believe these things and live by them, because they will only bring you down
You will note that “God” is not in this list. He believed in God, but his God was pretty much the transcendent guarantor of this code, and nothing more.
The problem is that there are too many who want to cut down the tree but keep living in the tree house. They don't understand that it simply isn't going to float there in the air by itself, but without the tree, it will fall to the ground, be smashed to bits, and badly harm everyone inside it. This is not a mystery. The descent of the modernists is the descent into post-Christianity and societal self-destruction. And the fact that the modernists are opposed to their natural successors, the post-modernists, does not make them on our side.


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128 Comments:

Blogger Unknown April 28, 2018 9:03 PM  

I agree with this 100%.

A moral code cannot be disembodied, seperated from a religion - it withers and dies. Morality means seeing beyond mere physical matter into the unseen connections between ourselves and some larger force. It is essentially a connection to the supernatural dimension.

It is not a mere practical code. Of course, correct morality will result in flourishing, and that is one of its vindications.

Blogger Lazarus April 28, 2018 9:11 PM  

and keep a clean yard

It is easy to tell which houses in the neighborhood are rentals, yes?

Blogger cmbaileytstc April 28, 2018 9:13 PM  

Who can not fall into despair when all lives end in death, if they don’t know that God is there? I know a lot of unbelievers say they are immune to that despair. I wonder about that. I am certainly not immune to it.

Blogger Lazarus April 28, 2018 9:16 PM  

I know a lot of unbelievers say they are immune to that despair

They assuage the despair with Utopian fantasies that they seek to impose on us all.

Blogger James Dixon April 28, 2018 9:22 PM  

> Who can not fall into despair when all lives end in death, if they don’t know that God is there?

That is the great unanswered question, isn't it?

> I know a lot of unbelievers say they are immune to that despair. I wonder about that.

Lots of unbelievers lie, especially to themselves.

OpenID ages345 April 28, 2018 9:31 PM  

I would take one issue with the comic. Re: the Resurrection being the penultimate step. If there is no Resurrection, the rest doesn't matter. "If Christ is not risen, we of all men are to be pitied."

With no Resurrection, there is no point to civilization or indeed existence itself.

Blogger Randomatos April 28, 2018 9:32 PM  

With themselves as the noble secular priesthood on top of the heap of course.

Blogger Eli April 28, 2018 9:32 PM  

I'm curious what will becoming of Rod Dreher. He seems very wishy washy about things. In the culture war he keeps back pedaling.

Blogger Damn Crackers April 28, 2018 9:42 PM  

Without God, isn't the answer to all of Dreher's commandments is "or else what?"

Blogger Jack April 28, 2018 9:49 PM  

I think Dreher's moral code basically sums up American religion for a significant number of Americans. Those are the kind of people I grew up around. You can see a nice idealization of them in It's a Wonderful Life. The Baileys are basically a-religious - George only turns to God when he's at the end of his rope. "Lord, I'm not a praying man, but if you're up there ..." He's the sort of man who thinks that living right is its own reward and is self-sufficient. It is its own reward, but it will not save you.

Blogger Wanderer April 28, 2018 9:51 PM  

The problem with the younger generation and Christianity is that they split into two groups: Group A hates Christianity because Christianity is against sexual dysfunction such as buggery and the rest. Group B hates Christianity because they interpret the Sermon on the Mount to mean that Christianity is a religion of cuckoldry and about bending over to foreign invaders and anyone else who wishes to harm you. It's a tough sell to either crowd. Saying that "it's the foundation of civilization" isn't convincing enough because both camps believe otherwise. In fact many of them perpetuate the myth of the Christian dark ages and that, if anything, Christianity had been anti-civilizational. It doesn't help that they speak and understand almost entirely in rhetoric, and it takes really boring, dry, and long-winded dialectic to explain why, say, the science is on Christianity's side re:why buggery is bad, and that the Sermon on the Mount wasn't preaching self-destruction.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 28, 2018 9:54 PM  

Telling younger generations that Catholic monks and other Christians preserved the ancient writings and classical knowledge isn't that hard.

"No monks, no Plato" isn't that long winded.

Blogger Ex Caliburn April 28, 2018 9:55 PM  

Who can not fall into despair when all lives end in death, if they don’t know that God is there? I know a lot of unbelievers say they are immune to that despair. I wonder about that.

Don't bother wondering. I can tell you now from someone who was on that side that it's a lie. You turn your head and pretend it isn't there. Or you make up pretty sounding ideas to open emotional distance between it and yourself. But it is always there.

One of the first things I did after I converted was to thank God for existing and for the hope of salvation.

I can't express how beautiful and liberating was the realization that there would not be a true end to life. That the universe would not wane into darkness and life would not wither and die in a cold, desolate vacuum. That even if I did not make it, some men would and there would be something of man that survived beyond this world.

That alone was enough, regardless of what happened to me.

Blogger CK April 28, 2018 9:57 PM  

Dreher is presenting typical self help steps. In self help they don't warn you about the bad apple that spoils the bunch

At least Vox warns you to be wary about gamma behavior in you groups and to weed it out. Dreher and JP tell their readers to be peaceful and have a dialogue.

Unfortunately self help and inclusion have permeated our pulpits and pundits where people are told to man up and be tidy so you can clean up after the newcomers.

Blogger Jack April 28, 2018 9:58 PM  

"No monks, no Plato." I think that's the motto at most philosophy departments these days.

Blogger 357Delta April 28, 2018 9:59 PM  

Dreher's father was part of the problem which resulted in the therapeutic culture he's against. Pretty much anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell his father's morals were unmoored from something solid. Cultural Christianity makes Christians feel good and is a temporary nice environment, but has shown itself in the US and Europe to be fragile and self-destructive.

Blogger Jack April 28, 2018 10:06 PM  

The correspondent in Dreher's article says: "By my observation, many of the woes faced today by the white working class are self-inflicted."

Yeah, ok. Fifty years of social engineering which changes the culture to one that embraces and encourages drug use, sexual deviance and promiscuity, perpetual adolescence, and nihilistic selfishness. So how come today's white working class isn't as virtuous as their grandparents? Must be their own fault. Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, lads! That's the conservative way!

Blogger Wanderer April 28, 2018 10:11 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Telling younger generations that Catholic monks and other Christians preserved the ancient writings and classical knowledge isn't that hard.

"No monks, no Plato" isn't that long winded.

Have you ever debated with these people before? They'll just say that the Catholic Church was burning down libraries and converting people by force so that they could control and oppress them. This is what the typical normie secular person believes.

Blogger cmbaileytstc April 28, 2018 10:14 PM  

“Woes facing the White working class self-inflicted”-Did the WWC export the factories and move crime-prone minorities into their own neighborhoods?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 28, 2018 10:31 PM  

ages345 wrote:I would take one issue with the comic. Re: the Resurrection being the penultimate step. If there is no Resurrection, the rest doesn't matter. "If Christ is not risen, we of all men are to be pitied."

With no Resurrection, there is no point to civilization or indeed existence itself.


I think it's exactly right. It shows giving up doctrine one step at a time, and the results. The apostate gives up the little points first, and the resurrection is the last to go. After you have stopped believing the resurrection, there is nothing left and atheism is the inevitable end.

The artist might have improved the cartoon if Atheism were a slide to hell rather than the floor of the basement. Vox has pointed out that my talents aren't in meme-making, though.

Blogger D. April 28, 2018 10:32 PM  

@17 Jack

"Yeah, ok. Fifty years of social engineering which changes the culture to one that embraces and encourages drug use, sexual deviance and promiscuity, perpetual adolescence, and nihilistic selfishness. So how come today's white working class isn't as virtuous as their grandparents? Must be their own fault. Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, lads! That's the conservative way!"

Sloppy Williamson with a Churchian patina

OpenID Dave April 28, 2018 10:52 PM  

A religion that makes provably false statements is never an option, at least not if we wish to keep the benefits of science and technology. E.g. "God created the world in six literal days not more than 10,000 years ago", "All people are created equal", "Gender is fluid but sexual preference isn't", "Carbon dioxide is a pollutant", etc.

Young-Earth creationism is actually a recent heresy; early Christians did not take the Book of Genesis as a historical account:

https://blog.jim.com/uncategorized/science-and-christianity/

In all the important summaries of Christian faith prior to 1800, such as the Thirty-Nine Articles, there is nothing empirically testable, except maybe transubstantiation.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 28, 2018 11:11 PM  

"God created the world in six literal days not more than 10,000 years ago"

Neil de Grasse Tyson would probably agree that that's an easily disproven assertion and that our reality is obviously a computer simulation of some kind.

Blogger Mark Cook April 28, 2018 11:14 PM  

Amazing how his Father's code is so similar to the Ten Commandments. And how we all could not keep them, hence the need for a Savior. In Christ Alone. In nations where Christ is exalted, life is valued, where He is not, life is cheap and becomes a living hell.

Blogger Beau April 28, 2018 11:27 PM  

early Christians did not take the Book of Genesis as a historical account

They didn't believe Genesis was true?

Blogger Jew613 April 28, 2018 11:36 PM  

Who are the three figures walking down the steps?

Blogger Michael Maier April 28, 2018 11:39 PM  

For anyone that may have done something to open another's eyes towards God and Jesus Christ, is there some tactic you found effective? Any advice you can spare towards that goal?

I feel as though I was so blind for so long that I don't have any way to help another, except by my personal testimony. Which isn't exactly compelling evidence to a non-believer.

Blogger Michael Maier April 28, 2018 11:42 PM  

Beau wrote:early Christians did not take the Book of Genesis as a historical account

They didn't believe Genesis was true?



I don't know, Beau. What is "a day" to Our Lord? Would it even apply?

I have seen some claim the words in Hebrew mean "period of time" rather than "24 hours".

But also, seeing as how Jesus Christ used parables rather than actual facts, does it even matter?

I am not giving cover to the doubters, but at least some of the Bible seems poetic, rather than literal.

Blogger Michael Maier April 28, 2018 11:43 PM  

I guess I mean... would time even apply if God was creating the universe from scratch?

Blogger select star April 28, 2018 11:45 PM  

"I have seen some claim the words in Hebrew mean "period of time" rather than "24 hours".

Careful Mike those steps are slippery.

Blogger Howard Stone April 28, 2018 11:52 PM  

@Michael Maier, I would say share the Gospel whenever you can. Try and have some good conversations. Be a. good witness, try not to cause others to stumble. Pray, read your Bible daily. If you are in a good church they should be able to help also, but remember it’s not a Christian’s job to prove the truth of the Gospel. The Bible says that you proof is already undeniably self evident in Creation, we are surrounded by it.

Blogger Howard Stone April 28, 2018 11:54 PM  

People don’t deny the Gospel for lack of evidence, they deny the Gospel because they love their sin.

Blogger Nathan April 29, 2018 12:02 AM  

God is "just" the transcendental guarantor. Mmm hmm.

That graphic is interesting, because you can see Jordan Peterson as helping people who are near the bottom walk up the first couple stairs. He makes it clear that Sam Harris atheism is adolescent nonsense, and that Dreher's secular humanism doesn't work -- but JP definitely can't take you to the top of the staircase.

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 12:05 AM  

What is "a day" to Our Lord? Would it even apply?

Is this a question the early Christians asked?

Blogger Michael Maier April 29, 2018 12:21 AM  

Beau, I'm not trying to be contentious. But what does THAT matter?

select star wrote:"I have seen some claim the words in Hebrew mean "period of time" rather than "24 hours".

Careful Mike those steps are slippery.


Am I mistaken? If so, I apologize. I'm no expert in ancient Hebrew linguistics.

But I don't see why it matters. If God created everything, does it even matter if it was in a strict 24-hour period or some indeterminate measure of time?

I don't think it matters one lick.

Blogger YclepedBobAli April 29, 2018 12:22 AM  

Every particular formulation of 'moral' or 'decent' or 'good' behaviour is just the product of the operation of conscience.

Conscience, the voice of the Natural Law, was created and imparted by God to guide our exercise of free choice towards heaven or hell.

To try and separate the operation of conscience from God is simply impossible. It would be like trying to operate a computer without a hard drive.

These cuckservative Pantheists are just annoying. What is it with Rod Dreher. Benedict Option, but no natural law? If we create our benedict state, he won't be allowed in it.

Blogger Crush Limbraw April 29, 2018 12:24 AM  

Until I understood that Christianity applies to all of life, it was just a religion - like Churchianity!
When I read Augustine that 'faith comes by hearing, but understanding comes from knowledge and knowledge comes by sight' - which confirms that 'we need to grow im the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ'. One of the better lines I read recently - "I no longer believe in God - I know!"
It is not spiritual navel gazing - it is Christ living in us and through us - and carrying out His Great Commission - which the church has essentially forgotten.
As Vox has said - Churchianity is not Christianity. The world sees Churchianity and thinks it's Christianity - it ain't!
What we need is simple - 'make disciples of all nations.....' - that encompasses truth in action in our families, workplace and all our interactions with others - it's a tall order, but all things are possible with Christ - you can read the rest at my website. It's a call to action!

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 29, 2018 12:39 AM  

If the universe is indeed 15 billion years old, it is because about 6,000 years ago God created a 15 billion year old universe. We know it took six days, because He said so.

If we choose to believe anything else, we wind up believing in far more miracles than we see in Genesis, and we usually wind up ruling out the possibility of a miracle worker, too.

Scientists who take Genesis seriously don't seem to have any problem doing science. I know first hand that it certainly doesn't impede engineering.

OpenID Dave April 29, 2018 12:39 AM  

> What is "a day" to Our Lord? Would it even apply?
> Is this a question the early Christians asked?

Yes, Jim includes a quotation from Origen (184-253AD) covering exactly this topic.

Blogger Howard Stone April 29, 2018 12:40 AM  

It all matters, and it is all that matters.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 29, 2018 1:05 AM  

Whatever a day means in the context of Genesis, the process of creation that it describes bears a remarkable resemblance to the Big Bang Theory.

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 1:13 AM  

Yes, Jim includes a quotation from Origen (184-253AD) covering exactly this topic.

Citing Origen as representative of early Christian thought is problematic. As Kevin Calvert notes of Origen:

On the other hand, though praised by many, he was rejected by his bishop. Origen’s most orthodox admirers, like Gregory of Nyssa, often rejected his teachings.

and

He (Origen) believed, for instance, in the pre-existence of souls and that eventually everyone, including the Devil, would be saved.

Origen's views were not even normative in his day.

Blogger wreckage April 29, 2018 1:25 AM  

@33, but it's a slippery slope on the way up, too. Getting people started is important; that's why the enemy likes to draw the battle lines as far away from the top as possible.

Blogger Bob Loblaw April 29, 2018 1:30 AM  

You will note that “God” is not in this list. He believed in God, but his God was pretty much the transcendent guarantor of this code, and nothing more.

And yet... he told you to dress up for church. Why would you bother going to church to worship such a laissez faire god? Maybe God isn't on that list because he thought his son was smart enough to figure out there's no going to church without God?

Blogger Howard Stone April 29, 2018 1:45 AM  

Oh, there is plenty of going to church without God.

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 1:46 AM  

An early Christian, Ireanaeus (130 A.D. to 202 A.D.), wrote in Against Heresies

Whom, therefore, shall we believe as to the creation of the world—these heretics who have been mentioned that prate so foolishly and inconsistently on the subject, or the disciples of the Lord, and Moses, who was both a faithful servant of God and a prophet?

He at first narrated the formation of the world in these words: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,” and all other things in succession; but neither gods nor angels [had any share in the work].


Having created exactly what?

His own Word is both suitable and sufficient for the formation of all things, even as John, the disciple of the Lord, declares regarding Him: “All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made.” Now, among the “all things” our world must be embraced.

Not the spiritualizing of Origen, just a simple statement that God made it all.



Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 2:08 AM  

An even earlier Christian, Justin Martyr (100 A.D. to 165 A.D), in the Dialog with Trypho relates,

Rusticus the prefect said, “Are those the doctrines that please you, you utterly wretched man?” Justin said, “Yes, since I adhere to them with right dogma.” Rusticus the prefect said, “What is the dogma?” Justin said, “That according to which we worship the God of the Christians, whom we reckon to be one from the beginning, the maker and fashioner of the whole creation, visible and invisible; and the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who had also been preached beforehand by the prophets as about to be present with the race of men, the herald of salvation and teacher of good disciples.

A straightforward account he believes the account of the creation rendered beforehand is true history.

OpenID zhukovg April 29, 2018 2:18 AM  

@Michael Maier : I am a Roman Catholic, so I am writing from that perspective. If you are going to present the gospel to someone there are a few things to do.

--Pray and ask others to pray for you. Continue to pray, silently, while speaking to the individual. You will contend with diabolical forces when you present the gospel to someone.

--Remember, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts and brings someone to conversion. You need only be faithful to the gospel message.

--Have a bible close at hand, but keep it out of sight. The average non-Christian person will react to a visible bible as though you had just drawn a gun on them.

--That said you will have to have a few important verses memorized, such as John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8,9 etc...

--Don't get bogged down in minutiae, such as how long a Genesis 'day' is. Remember this is about saving a soul not winning an argument.

--Don't squeeze green fruit. Some people will initially reject the gospel. Don't plead, beg or argue. Leave them to the Holy Spirit and be ready to help when the time comes.

You may also wish to read up on Lay Evangelism, there are plenty of books out there.

--ZhukovG

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 3:00 AM  

For anyone that may have done something to open another's eyes towards God and Jesus Christ, is there some tactic you found effective?

Quiet kindness consistently demonstrated daily, which leads others to examine how your interaction with others follows what is written in the scriptures, which leads to genuine questions about faith in Christ.

Kindness at times demands you disagree. It can lead to confrontation and scorn, just calmly state what you believe (and for some, like many here at Vox Popoli, why it is reasonable to think as you do) and keep acting on your faith. Can an observer see your actions as conforming to Christ? If so, you are on good ground for sharing your faith.

Blogger Michael Kingswood April 29, 2018 3:01 AM  

"If the universe is indeed 15 billion years old, it is because about 6,000 years ago God created a 15 billion year old universe. We know it took six days, because He said so."

Oh come on. Nothing in the Bible gives a date of creation. The closest things are the genealogies, but they are not to be taken literally because it was common to not list every step on the family tree when making the things, for a number of reasons. Nor do they go all the way back to the moment of creation anyway.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out above, the word translated as day doesn't necessarily mean a single rotation of the Earth about its axis. Not to mention the fact that the concept of a day is meaningless before the creation of the Earth itself.

Finally, if memory serves, the idea of the 6,000 years came from a priest who estimated how long a piece of coal with the mass of the sun would take to burn out after it had been lit on fire (priests at the time not knowing about things like nuclear fusion and the like, but still having a good idea of the sun's mass thanks to astronomical observations).

Which is all a long way of saying not all of the Bible is LITERALLY true. Especially the creation part. But not being literally true doesn't mean it's false. And the creation account sure does follow remarkably well (considering who wrote it) with our current scientific understanding of how the universe and Earth were created, and the order at least of how creatures came to be on the planet. I would argue it doesn't at all conflict with the theory of evolution either: it doesn't say HOW God created all the plants and animals, just that He did, over some period of time. You ask me, evolution seems like a perfectly plausible, seamless, and, frankly, elegant way for Him to have done it without having to violate any of the natural laws He had set up. I have no trouble at all combining the two, and frankly I cannot understand the conflict some have between faith and science.

God is scientific, or at the least He's an engineer. We know this because Man is and Man is made in God's image. He's also poetic, and not always given to speaking literally.

OpenID leukosfash April 29, 2018 3:35 AM  

Michael Kingswood: Yours is not a biblical cosmology. You can't mix and match them. In the Bible, the Earth does not move and the sun, moon and stars are lights in the firmament.

NASA will not abide the Resurrection.

Blogger SciVo April 29, 2018 3:43 AM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:If the universe is indeed 15 billion years old, it is because about 6,000 years ago God created a 15 billion year old universe. We know it took six days, because He said so.

Pish posh. You can't have a literal day without the Sun, so how long did it take to create light? You're ridiculous. Either too autistic or not enough, I can't tell.

Blogger cavalier973 April 29, 2018 4:09 AM  

Since the advent of death is ascribed to Adam, the first man, then it is a stretch to shoehorn into the Genesis account millions of years of evolutionary change prior to man, which depends on the death of less-selectively-advantaged organisms to weed out bad mutations.

Oh, and both Origen and Augustine wrote that the earth was less than 10,000 years old. Both did, however express that they believed the days were not necessarily 24 hour periods. Augustine believed that everything was created instantaneously.

"You can't have a literal day without the sun".

You ain't the boss of me.

Silliness. The Infinite Creator God who spoke the universe into existence can probably keep time, since, you know, He created it.

As an aside, I have heard that the words in the creation account that are translated "Evening and Morning" were probably words that originally meant "chaos" and "order", respectively, and were later associated with those particular times of day.

I could be wrong, of course, about the earth being "young" (6,000 years is a long time, actually) and if so, I will expect and accept a good amount of ribbing standing in front of the throne of God. I doubt, however, that I will be ashamed for taking God at His word.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 29, 2018 4:49 AM  

"I could be wrong, of course, about the earth being "young" (6,000 years is a long time, actually) and if so, I will expect and accept a good amount of ribbing standing in front of the throne of God. I doubt, however, that I will be ashamed for taking God at His word."

This is a good response.

As always, a best response is not to say "The Bible is false" or other weaseliness such as "maybe it's just poetic, figurative, or mythological", but rather "I don't understand".

Remember, the concept that all man-governed creation since the fall is degenerating makes it rather likely that even our geniuses may be dumb as bricks by comparison with early mankind.

OpenID cyrus83 April 29, 2018 5:00 AM  

I was sitting in a philosophy lecture 15 years ago when the professor, though himself a convinced atheist, stated the West was in dire need of re-Christianization. Though not a believer, he understood the importance of Christianity to the survival of Western civilization.

What Dreher misses, as do so many others, is that living by a so-called secular moral code only works while the larger culture is Christian and thereby reinforces the moral messaging - in other words, while there were non-Christians in the past in the West, they were still influenced by the Christian moral teachings that permeated society. As Christianity recedes, this support begins crumbling, but not all at once, and mainly through the younger generations who don't have the experience of being brought up in a Christian culture and don't have the memory of how things once were. A man of 70 in today's world can lament over what has been lost; a man of 20 often has no idea what has been taken from him.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 29, 2018 5:16 AM  

“They assuage the despair with Utopian fantasies that they seek to impose on us all.”

Don’t forget the drugs. Prescription, recreational, booze, sex, money and power; their obsession with these is self medicating for the empty state of their lives.

“Behold, your house is left to you desolate!”

OpenID markstoval April 29, 2018 5:24 AM  

The entire history of the Church has been one of "experts" who had different points of view or ideas on what God said. Different ideas on what God would have us do.

In my opinion, the Bible is a tremendous resource for Christians and non-Christians alike. But, the greatest resource is talking directly to God. Some people never ask God and then shut up and listen.

I realize that direct conversation with God, sometimes called mysticism, is frowned upon by many but 60% of the "Doctors of the Church" were mystics. Sometimes kids ask me why I do what I do. When I say because God told me to do it, some understand and some just roll their eyes --- telling me where they are in their journey towards God.

Someone once said that morality is doing the right thing even when no one would find out what you did. But if you are talking to God all the time you realize that someone always knows. Someone important.

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 29, 2018 6:16 AM  

Western civilization, at the bottom of the stairs, amounts to; If A then B, B therefore A. Clever, especially in engineering. But, ultimately is incapable of proving anything. Stupid. No wisdom in this world. Just plausible models until the next one comes along. Dawkins' crane cannot and never has been able to lift this truth. No one knows what time is. No one knows what space is. No one knows what gravity is. No one knows what existence is. It's all If A then B, B therefore A.

Remember, if you believe in the resurrection, You. Are. A. Fundamentalist. Genesis can be defended for the Truth that it is.

Blogger LP999-16 April 29, 2018 6:46 AM  

50 thank you for such comfort Beau

"For anyone that may have done something to open another's eyes towards God and Jesus Christ, is there some tactic you found effective?

Quiet kindness consistently demonstrated daily, which leads others to examine how your interaction with others follows what is written in the scriptures, which leads to genuine questions about faith in Christ."

Thank you Beau, your awesome, god bless you, what a great weekend.

Conform, observe to the truth in our Lord.

OpenID ages345 April 29, 2018 6:58 AM  

It is necessary to believe that God created the universe ex nihilo, from nothing. The Big Bang satisfies this, presuming that it was caused by God and not some equally unproveable reason like two universes crashing into each other.

The issue for me is not how long ago it was, but with the idea that all of mankind is not descended from the same man and woman, Adam and Eve. Sin entered the world through them, and Christ is the new Adam through his relationship to Adam, and saved all the children of Adam. But if all mankind is not related to an actual Adam and Eve through a common bloodline, which Christ saved, then it becomes problematic. Fr. Seraphim Rose discusses this in depth in his book, Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.

Blogger Zach April 29, 2018 7:01 AM  

Is this a question the early Christians asked?

St. Augustine did.

Blogger tz April 29, 2018 7:53 AM  

Stefan Molyneux finally came to the conclusion - see his recent Chappaquiddic video, and listen all the way to the end.

We talk of time preference. Eternity is different than any finite length of time.

Even in a cultural Christian world, without the Holy Spirit, having your sins forgiven, at best you are going to be a well mannered devil for social status, something like Pickup Artists can wear an alpha mask, but they can't and won't do alpha things elsewhere.

The attack though has been more subtle. Just like abridging or bending the Constitution "just this time for a really, really, good purpose", Christians become churchians by adopting nice sounding popular damned (literally) lies. Like women ought to go to college and have careers in their '20s (as opposed to 50's). Sexual immorality is minor sin and contraception and divorce don't denature marriage (see Humanae Vitae on the former, and the Gospels on the latter).

Compare the reaction of the Churchians between a mildly race realist saying or even It's Okay to be White with a leave nothing to the imagination Gay Sex poster.

Then there's Abortion. Slavery created such a split in 1860 that we fought a bloody war, and it was another Christian v.s. Churchian (Even if a race is lesser, that doesn't mean they can licitly be exploited). Abortion is a Woman's right.

And that is where we find ourselves today. Our Eves have bitten the forbidden fruit and are offering it to the Adams, most of whom wolf it down. Few men - fathers - are willing to protect their little Eves from the serpent. Yet the protected daughters that become mothers are the happiest. Though the stressed out debt slaves that hook up as a change from cats will say they are happy.

You will also have a radically different culture if you have many aunts and uncles, neices and nephews, and your first grandchild arrives before your last child.

In short, we need the old style Christian families of the last century. You cannot rebuild the Cathedral with rotten stones.

There are endless debates on theology and minutae like baptism (necessary? Immersion? Infant?), and what the Bible means, but this is the trap on the right side. I would just that every Christian man and woman PRACTICE Christian Marriage to their best and leave the arguments to the theologians. Instead of looking into mysteries or finding a dozen easy practices, this one hard practice would suffice to restore everything.

OpenID ages345 April 29, 2018 8:06 AM  

minutae like baptism (necessary? Immersion? Infant?)

This is probably not the place to discuss it further, being quite OT, but if you think the proper form and matter of baptism is minutiae, then nothing else you wrote matters. It most certainly is a salvation issue.

Blogger Josh (the sexiest thing here) April 29, 2018 8:08 AM  

Strange, that Rod Dreher seems to think so, but he doesn't grasp that it is only the foundation built upon the rock that will stand:

From this same piece:

The only thing that is going to bring working-class people who aren’t fit to hold factory jobs back from their ruin is strong religion, a religion that has answers. True, my dad didn’t have strong religion in the literal sense, but he had an unquestioned belief in sacred moral order — in the existence of right and wrong, and of the obligation of all people to live according to its precepts.

Blogger marco moltisanti April 29, 2018 8:12 AM  

I'm somewhere lower than the top step on that last image but still consider myself a Christian because I'm heading up, not down. "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"

Blogger Miguel April 29, 2018 8:12 AM  

Having a form if godliness but denying the Power thereof. From such, withdraw thyself.

Western Civilization will never stand without Christianity. Which is why the enemies of the West can tolerate any "right winger", as long as he is not a DeusVultian Nationalist.

Exs: Jordan The Con, Bennie The Diasporan.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2018 8:28 AM  

i would've thought "no resurrection" would've been near the bottom as well... but the fact is... it belongs way up near the top... as one of the first claims the modernists make is that the resurrection of the body was in fact a metaphor.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 8:29 AM  

Christianity is a counterfeit of the true faith, so, not only is it optional, rejecting it is the only spiritually proper choice.

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/christian.htm

Blogger James Dixon April 29, 2018 9:01 AM  

> A religion that makes provably false statements is never an option ... E.g. "God created the world in six literal days not more than 10,000 years ago"

You have a strange definition of proof if you think you can prove anything about the creation one way or another. The scientifically accepted age of the earth is a reasonable best guess. It is not proof.

> I feel as though I was so blind for so long that I don't have any way to help another, except by my personal testimony. Which isn't exactly compelling evidence to a non-believer.

To one who refuses to believe, nothing is convincing. To one who is willing, personal testimony is more convincing than most things.

Each person is different. Each person is missing a different link in the chain leading to Christ. You seldom know what exactly will complete that chain. But God does. Just be available when the time comes.

> But if you are talking to God all the time you realize that someone always knows.

You don't have to talk to God to realize that.

Blogger Neutrinoide April 29, 2018 9:07 AM  

That is making no sens. But it doesn't suprise me from a Vox day fan.

Blogger John rockwell April 29, 2018 9:14 AM  

@Nathan

To walk to the top would require knowing undeniable evidence not only of the existence of God of the life and resurrection of Jesus.

Especially resurrection. No resurrection no Christianity.

Blogger John rockwell April 29, 2018 9:16 AM  

Recommend this channel for seekers of truth:
https://www.youtube.com/user/InspiringPhilosophy

Blogger John rockwell April 29, 2018 9:23 AM  

There is also a discussion between Atheist Matt Dillahunty and this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jb4Ys_vkmk

You guys heard of Matt Dillahunty? Is he as solid as many claim he is?

Many people were deconverted from Christianity by him.

Blogger Daniel April 29, 2018 9:52 AM  

No one know plato in the young generation

Blogger Jack April 29, 2018 10:02 AM  

2 Peter 3:8

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 10:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger bw April 29, 2018 10:31 AM  

he didn't call it The Descent of Man for no-thing....

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 10:36 AM  

Is this a question the early Christians asked?

St. Augustine did.


Saint Augustine is a personal favorite. Yet I would be remiss if I failed to point out he is a Post-Nicene Father, having lived 354 - 430 AD.

The individual quoted by Dave earlier, Origen (184 - 254AD.) and the two by me, Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD.) and Justin Martyr 100 - 165 AD) are all from the Ante-Nicene period; apples to apples.

Blogger bw April 29, 2018 10:55 AM  

It’s the usual Charles Murray Coming Apart thing

aka Marxist AntiChrist Feminism

Blogger HoosierHillbilly April 29, 2018 11:31 AM  

Great comic from a dark time. And we are starting to enter round two of that controversy.

Shall the Fundamentalists win? I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by the answer...

Blogger Jack April 29, 2018 11:49 AM  

Don't forget the ever practical St. Peter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 2:26 PM  

Dean Haskins wrote:Christianity is a counterfeit of the true faith, so, not only is it optional, rejecting it is the only spiritually proper choice.Go directly back to hell.

Blogger Crush Limbraw April 29, 2018 3:09 PM  

To #27-Michael Maier - everything begins with prayer and asking for whatever is needed, such as wisdom, perception and allowing God's spirit to work through us. We dont always understand, but we always need to seek - and we will find.
You might also read my #37 comment and follow up on the website - www.crushlimbraw.com - take it one step at a time - and we will make mistakes - all by the grace of God.

Blogger Ceerilan April 29, 2018 3:21 PM  

It's so shocking to see the sins of the past lead to the sins of the future. The lies create a web so wide it takes effort of a high IQ person to understand it. Meanwhile, liberalism takes its swings at any history over a generation old, or anything that goes against the narrative. These people are a blight on the west. A punishment sent by God for our unfaithfulness.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 3:28 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Dean Haskins wrote:Christianity is a counterfeit of the true faith, so, not only is it optional, rejecting it is the only spiritually proper choice.Go directly back to hell.

Yeah, platitudes and innuendos mean nothing, christian. Prove me wrong, or end up there.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 3:30 PM  

And, I'm thinking that, like most deluded christians, Snidely, you think that Satan is in hell? You'd be wrong on that front as well. But, thanks for playing.

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/satan.htm

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 3:31 PM  

Sounds more like a cult you have there.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 3:39 PM  

Eli wrote:Sounds more like a cult you have there.

If you think the apostles were in a cult, then "guilty." What they were not a part of was "christianity," which was invented long after they had all died.

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 3:43 PM  

Wow. You would be mistaken. They weren't the cult. You are. The amount of people I come across either online or in person who "want to go back" to the beginning of Christianity only to get it wrong is laughable.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 3:46 PM  

Eli wrote:Wow. You would be mistaken. They weren't the cult. You are. The amount of people I come across either online or in person who "want to go back" to the beginning of Christianity only to get it wrong is laughable.

I have no desire to go back to the beginning of christianity, as it was invented after the apostles were all dead. I merely teach the truths of the Holy Spirit, and they are exactly what the apostles taught. What is laughable are christians who don't see the many differences between their religion, and what is taught in the scriptures. Actually, it's not laughable, it is pitiful.

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/bride.htm

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 3:59 PM  

Dean Haskins wrote:And, I'm thinking that, like most deluded christians, Snidely, you think that Satan is in hell? You'd be wrong on that front as well. But, thanks for playing.


We've dealt with this clown before.
I don't remember if he's banned, but he comes here, looking for a fight so he can get people to go to his website, which he counts as a win.
He's an aggressive ass and he's a liar like his father, the father of lies.
Don't touch the poop, don't click on his link. He's not arguing in honesty, he's trying to seduce people into his nasty, moronic cult.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:06 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Dean Haskins wrote:And, I'm thinking that, like most deluded christians, Snidely, you think that Satan is in hell? You'd be wrong on that front as well. But, thanks for playing.



We've dealt with this clown before.

I don't remember if he's banned, but he comes here, looking for a fight so he can get people to go to his website, which he counts as a win.

He's an aggressive ass and he's a liar like his father, the father of lies.

Don't touch the poop, don't click on his link. He's not arguing in honesty, he's trying to seduce people into his nasty, moronic cult.


Says the christian who can prove nothing I state false, and has only ambiguous epithets of "poopyhead because I don't like what he says." Yeah, the Pharisees did the same with Yahoshua the Messiah. Prove me wrong, or shut the fried-chicken hole.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:06 PM  

Speaking of "hell," Snidely . . .

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 4:09 PM  

If you recall, Someone went over 400 rounds with you last time, shithead. You argued dishonestly at every possible point, refused to respond to anything he said, and just kept up your pointless slander and lies.
There's no point actually addressing anything you've said, you haven't made an argument, only called my grandparents names and pointed to your website.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:13 PM  

In the realm of spiritual truth and understanding, squealing like a pig doesn't rise to any usable standard. So, subsist in your tears, as it is clear that you have nothing but platitudes. The truth doesn't dwell in you, and won't while you remain what you are (lost).

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:14 PM  

BTW--your rejection of the Holy Spirit's truth doesn't define what I am, only you.

Blogger Beau April 29, 2018 4:20 PM  

@ Snidely

Good catch.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:21 PM  

Beau wrote:@ Snidely

Good catch.


Not quite; there'll be no fishing in hell.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 29, 2018 4:24 PM  

Stepping off the spiritual short bus now. Mostly a waste of time here.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 4:40 PM  

Dean Haskins wrote:Stepping off the spiritual short bus now. Mostly a waste of time here.
Buh-bye. Have fun raping little boys.

Blogger deanhaskins April 29, 2018 5:25 PM  

You are vile, profane, hell-fuel, you spiritually ignorant, dungheap.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 29, 2018 6:31 PM  

Oh look it's the Dean Haskins cult.

Yeah, this guy literally wrote his "truenameofjesus" book and is trying to shill it here. What was it, yehoshua? Don't care, and you're a completely unscriptural, gnostic-mystical hellspawned lying hack, Haskins.

Blogger James Dixon April 29, 2018 7:49 PM  

> We've dealt with this clown before.

Yep, I was one of the ones who attempted to take his arguments seriously. It was a waste of time.

Blogger deanhaskins April 29, 2018 9:00 PM  

Yes, Yahoshua the Messiah was clear that the road is narrow and few there be who find it. You and your 2.2 billion christians are anything but few. Like you, most find the truths of the Holy Spirit to be absurd. 1 Corinthians 2:14. Scripture is clear why lost folks like you a blind to Yah's truths. Good luck with your religion, christians. You are to be pitied.

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 9:25 PM  

What do numbers have to do with anything? Why are you projecting onto others your own foibles?

Blogger deanhaskins April 29, 2018 9:30 PM  

Oh, so Messiah didn't realize how successful the truth would become? Absurd. Typical churchian/christian responses here: all feels, no facts. Matthew 7:21-23.

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/christian.htm

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 29, 2018 9:35 PM  

Be silent, satanic would-be cult-leader. The only absurd thing is you.

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 9:39 PM  

Matthew 28: 18-20. Seeing as how the early Christ gave the command to go and make disciples, yeah I think Jesus knew that after many centuries the truth would be well known. Does that mean that all those over 2 billion Christians are in fact true believers? Of course not. Also, quit posting to your terrible cult website. No one here is going to be convinced by it.

Blogger deanhaskins April 29, 2018 9:42 PM  

Yes, that is what the lost Pharisees said to Yahoshua the Messiah. I pity you, unbeliever, you do not possess the Spirit of truth, or even know what spiritual truth is. It's pretty obvious that you declared your own salvation, or read about it in a book, and thought you'd say you were something that the Almighty never declared about you, like all christians. If that is the "salvation" you have, you're already a loser eternally. Eat, drink, and be merry. You already have your reward.

Blogger Neutrinoide April 29, 2018 9:49 PM  

It so weird. We replace all the Spirits, Demons and Gods of the old religion by formula using abstract variables. But when its come to the God of Christian, no it is impossible to replace human behavior and transcendental experiences with a better discipline then using a fictional character. It is like saying all planets are gods suck all thing is better then any theory of gravity. Your lack of imagination is not an argument.

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 10:26 PM  

Unbelievable. You are a mess cult owner dean. I know exactly where I stand in regards to Christ and His kingdom. I'm a sinner saved by His Grace and mercy. You are the one that has essentially started your own religion and mock that of the Apostles (or you know, Christians). I pray you find out true Christian history before it is too late for you. In the meantime all you'll have is yourself and your cultist ideals. You will never know true freedom and the Spiritual truth you speak of is a lie of your own creation. I'll leave you the last word if you so desire, but you are a danger to our Lord and Saviors actual teachings and I pray you'll find the Truth before it's too late.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 29, 2018 11:28 PM  

"then using a fictional character"

There's better evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ than there is for Homer or Alexander the Great. You need to go back and learn history, you truth-incompetent.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 12:52 AM  

Neutrinoide wrote:Your lack of imagination is not an argument.
Nor is your absurd emotional refusal to see what is in front of your face and address arguments honestly.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 30, 2018 7:50 AM  

Eli wrote:Unbelievable. You are a mess cult owner dean. I know exactly where I stand in regards to Christ and His kingdom. I'm a sinner saved by His Grace and mercy. You are the one that has essentially started your own religion and mock that of the Apostles (or you know, Christians). I pray you find out true Christian history before it is too late for you. In the meantime all you'll have is yourself and your cultist ideals. You will never know true freedom and the Spiritual truth you speak of is a lie of your own creation. I'll leave you the last word if you so desire, but you are a danger to our Lord and Saviors actual teachings and I pray you'll find the Truth before it's too late.

Who told you where you "stand in regards to Christ and His kingdom"? How were you told? What were you told? If you think you're something merely because you read it, you're deluded. If you think you're something because you declared it of yourself, you're deceived. So, who told you, and how did that happen? So many claims, no little evidence.

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/osas.htm

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic April 30, 2018 8:26 AM  

Why is Dreher constantly compelled to throw in some dig at his family members? His father saw God as transcendent guarantor because he was weighed down with operational concerns, like feeding and clothing his ungrateful son.

This is the fault of detached clergy and laity who think of Church as a book club where you get membership by your ability to grasp granular theological arguments. His father, like any other average working schlep, didn't need arcane theology. He needed an organization that helped knock off some of the sharp corners of life for its members. The Church ceded this role to the secular State and Market, so it's no mystery why most people think of God as transcendent rule-giver, when they think about God at all.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 30, 2018 10:50 AM  

"So many claims, no little evidence."

Said the coal to the snow.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 30, 2018 10:53 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"So many claims, no little evidence."

Said the coal to the snow.


Still all feels, no facts. Typical.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 30, 2018 10:58 AM  

Let's see if you can discern the difference between being a christian, and being born again.

https://www.facebook.com/WayOfTheTabernacle/posts/1074867195994384

OpenID Anonymous April 30, 2018 11:06 AM  

Howard Stone wrote: The Bible says that you proof is already undeniably self evident in Creation, we are surrounded by it.

No, it can at best bring you to the idea that a God created the world, but not _what_ kind of God. Because this world is wicked (1 John 5:19) and evil (Gal. 1:4), a vale of tears (Psalm 84:6). It is a horrible world, a world I would not want to live in again.

So you _need_ the Bible actually to know what kind of God exists, without it we could just as well believe in some kind of Demiurge. This is not blasphemy, it is what the Bible itself teaches: the prince of this world is Satan.

When it comes to "witnessing", I see little value in it. Maybe if I was an authority, but I'm not: I'm a social outcast. No one takes me seriously. After all, I was all alone when I came to faith; it was God's doing, but no one talked to me. I was just reading.

[But Vox Day's mention of the problem of evil was what led me to investigate Christianity; I've read The Irrational Atheist five months before my conversion, so his arguments didn't do anything for me. But my following of this blog (which, as a Christian, I now rarely visit anymore) was of importance, sure. When I was still an atheist, I rather read Vox Day than any of those who, on the surface, were more concerned with race, when in fact they weren't. Greg Johnson claimed that you can't oppose Turks on racial grounds: I invite him to go through Western Germany and tell me that he isn't able to discern who is German and who is Turkish. It's laughable; Spencer defended civic nationalism. The choice was clear: Vox Day's views are actually more hardcore than any of those who are seen as "racially aware".]

Also, I wouldn't be able to recommend them a Church here in Germany: they are all cucked. The Catholics are morons, the Orthodox aren't available here (and have turned Christianity into some kind of Judaism anyway; the Catholics as well to some extent), and the "EKD", the Protestants are severely cucked: collecting money for refugees, diversity and such -- and women pastors. I am still not baptized. I might wait until I'm on my deathbed like Constantine.

So, we Christians have to be alone with God. As the great Catholic Nicolás Gómez Dávila said to Martin Mosebach: "'The Church is dying', and he continues with his head bowed down, "We need to be alone with God. Prayer is the only intelligent act.'".

Some of his aphorisms concerning the matter:

"Apostolate perverts in two ways: by inducing one either to mitigate in order to lull to sleep, or to exaggerate in order to arouse."

"Let us not try to convince; apostolate harms good manners."

"The true Catholic disguises his faith. Not because he is ashamed of it, but so that his faith will not be ashamed of him."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 12:08 PM  

@Dean,
Big Gay Steve has already left this thread. There's no-one here that will let you s*** their c***.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 30, 2018 1:56 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:@Dean,

Big Gay Steve has already left this thread. There's no-one here that will let you s*** their c***.


You continue to make your father the devil proud, you profane sack of demons.

Blogger Isaac Miller April 30, 2018 2:00 PM  

So many, Like Jonah Goldberg, argue that Christianity didn't do all the good things that made "The West" what it is. Go anywhere outside the west, and what do you see? Utter totalitarianism, gang warfare, societies in which the government is just another gang, competing with or cooperating with the other cartels to maintain its own power. Brutal strongmen who hold power the only way it can be held given their societal constants - force, surveillance, and torture. Top-down authoritative structures who, taken away, would yield to many disparate sources of even greater discord and death. Yes, those things exist in the West to some degree. But they are orders of magnitude different in degree.

Human beings are not so easy to rule in peace as these educated morons think. Without cultural footholds, the only thing that holds order is power and intelligence, which will always congregate inexorably to the top, as in every single other civilization.

The lone exception was in the West. Some Asian subgroups are just as intelligent. Why didn't human rights, science, intellectual freedom, protection of the individual conscience arise there? Because culture is just as important in terms of a civilization's long-term trajectory as IQ is, as intelligent individuals arose who are crushed by the ruling class for their opposition to it, whereas the more stable culture of the west allowed the flowering of diverse forms of intellectualism.

"Culture" here is simply what people believe and assume by default.

These nearly universally non-Christian individuals, very frequently Jewish (such as Goldberg) who argue that the beauty of the West was really the Enlightenment - that institutional Christianity had to be gotten out of the way by force through the Reformation, the 30 years' war, and eventually Napoleon - I just wonder so much how they can possibly imagine that it wasn't specifically Catholicism's imposition of a unified Latin and Greek culture based on scripture and tradition across the west that created the preconditions for such a civilization. That they are frequently Jewish is to note their ideological skin in the game for the assumption that Jesus was not the Messiah, was not the son of God, and was not everything else The Church held that he was.

It baffles me that they cannot simply look at the histories **everywhere else** and recognize the single fundamental difference the West possessed - Catholic Christianity (although I would grant merely "Christianity" for the sake of reaching the next level of the argument, because I find it leads straight back to Catholicism in the final analysis). Very educated people - such as Goldberg - have no excuse for this kind of omission. It is deliberate or it is because they have veiled their eyes from the road that would lead them to it. It leads to Christian Nationalism as the only potential source of a resurrection for the West, and flies in the face of their ideological commitments.

Blogger Patrick Kelly April 30, 2018 4:16 PM  

"Who told you where you "stand in regards to Christ and His kingdom"?"

To start with, definitely not the Church of Dean Haskins or any other social media peddler of their particular religion.

Blogger Dean Haskins April 30, 2018 4:58 PM  

Patrick Kelly wrote:"Who told you where you "stand in regards to Christ and His kingdom"?"

To start with, definitely not the Church of Dean Haskins or any other social media peddler of their particular religion.


Yes, I expect such carnal nonsense from one who thinks he is born again only because of the false teachings of christianity. You also give yourself away by referring to Christ's kingdom, which will the be the 1000-year reign. The kingdom of Yah (God) is what is comprised by believers (it is His dwelling place on earth).

And, Peter says that those who are true believers are to give an answer to anyone who asks, so I guess you stand in opposition to what Peter taught in his epistles--you don't like his "religion" either? And, scripture is clear that those who have been adopted by the Most High are told they are His children--that is the testimony that is to be given, as it the testimony that the true believer receives. So, your reluctance seems to belie any evidence that you are actually His child.

But, hey, it looks like you enjoy trying to be pithy online, so, there's that. Sadly, that won't get you in. Neither will your sad attempt at minimizing the truths of the Holy Spirit with your uninspired goofball labeling of them as being anyone's religion. But, thanks again for playing.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 5:07 PM  

Patrick, don't argue with him. He's not honest.
Just insult the stupid little child molester.

Blogger deanhaskins April 30, 2018 6:34 PM  

Snidely continues to expose himself as a characterless basement dweller. Surely nobody with a 3-digit IQ pays any attention to his sub-human tripe.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 7:46 PM  

@Dean, isn't it time for your caretaker to retrieve you from the library and take you back to the group home?

Blogger weka May 01, 2018 1:20 AM  

@115
Why is Dreher constantly compelled to throw in some dig at his family members? His father saw God as transcendent guarantor because he was weighed down with operational concerns, like feeding and clothing his ungrateful son.

Ingratitude is a gamma tell, as is contempt for the working man.

The quiet faith of the working man is valued by Christ. Who was a carpenter, and chose fishermen, tax collectors and nationalists to be disciples. The only one who was educated was Saul, who said he was the chief of sinners, and untimely born into faith.

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