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Monday, April 30, 2018

Further to the indictment

I suspected Jordan Peterson not only lacked intellectual integrity, but was not even on the side of Western civilization at all. Yesterday, he contributed more documentation to the growing pile of evidence that he is an enemy of the truth and the West alike.
Jordan B Peterson@jordanbpeterson
Heavens to Murgatroyd! as Bugs Bunny had it: A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me...
He's referring to this piece by Adam Piggot, a soon-to-be former fan of his:
I have been an advocate of Peterson for a while and he speaks a great deal of truth. But on reflection I am beginning to reappraise my position on him. Did the alt right embrace him so readily because we thought we had finally found someone who taught in progressive universities who wasn’t a foaming at the mouth liberal? Peterson is most certainly not foaming at the mouth; but is it true that he is not a liberal? The assumption has been that but perhaps he is merely a liberal whom we find palatable.

Peterson seems to be the real deal because we desperately want him to be the real deal.

Another thing that I have noticed in his discussions and speeches, and particularly in the Q&A sessions, is that he constantly skirts around the subject of biological reality. Once again the assumption on our part has been that he doesn’t want to go there because it would make his position untenable within the prog system in which he works. But that is a comfortable and convenient assumption on our part. Perhaps the truth is that he doesn’t go there because he himself is a believer of the magic dirt theory of race.
Peterson's fans have done their best to try to excuse his behavior, to little avail, as his generic and false accusation quoted above could have just as easily been produced by any other Canadian feminist left-wing academic globalist. Furthermore, we now know that Peterson is aware of my post addressing his inept appeal to the mythical "115 IQ", as it is cited in the article to which he linked.
Recently Peterson wrote a piece titled On the so-called Jewish question. There was a good deal of push-back in the comments, but the real push-back he encountered was from Vox Day – The myth of Jordan Peterson’s integrity.

“I do not know Jordan Peterson, but his incorrect and deceitful arguments and his unfair, unjustified attacks on his critics show him to be an inept and integrity-challenged coward who lacks commitment to the truth. The combination of his sudden success with his observable intellectual ineptitude suggests that he has been elevated by the mainstream media in order to provide a harmless, toothless, and non-Christian alternative to the failed conservative movement of William F. Buckley and the failed neoconservative movement of Bill Kristol and Ben Shapiro.”

As of this time Peterson has not responded to Day’s demolition of his article. A live debate between the two will most probably not eventuate as Day would be too great a risk and the topics at hand are as we know are verboten for Peterson.

Ultimately I believe that Peterson is an elaborate and very clever deception to prevent young men from inadvertently straying off the progressive reservation.
It does rather look as if Peterson is little more than the newest member of the Approved Opposition to be anointed by the mainstream media, to go with "whip-smart" Benny Shapiro, George "now, that twists my bowtie" Will, and the Official Conservative of the Washington Post, Megan McCardle, collectively known as the Washington Generals, media edition. Don't forget, William F. Buckley became the pope of the conservative movement back in the day on the basis of his show Firing Line and his public demolition of various leftist patsies such as Gore Vidal.

Yes, Peterson speaks certain truths, but only the easy and uncontroversial ones. From what I see, he is treading the broad and easy path that leads to public acclamation as well as other destinations. But the real problem with Peterson is that he is strategically irrelevant. The societal problems caused by modernism simply cannot be solved by a modernist fighting postmodernism.

At this point it is still possible that Peterson will take action to salvage his intellectual integrity. But I think it is increasingly unlikely, as this is the second time in a row that he has doubled-down and resorted to childish attempts to discredit and disqualify his critics rather than responding substantively to them. So, I anticipate that his future behavior, and his continued engagement of other lightweight leftists further to his left in lieu of the growing number of substantial critics to his right, will serve to confirm the opinion of skeptics like NN Taleb and me.
Jordan B Peterson@jordanbpeterson
And you call me a fascist? You sanctimonious prick. If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily. 
How very fierce. Truly the epitome of the courageous intellectual warrior. I find myself wondering this: if Jordan Peterson believes calling someone else "a fascist" makes one a sanctimonious prick, then what does calling someone "a misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue" make him?

“I’m worried always that I’ll make a mistake in what I say… impulsive mistake, careless mistake, that I won’t be on top of things in a combative interview, that sort of thing, that I’ll make a mistake. I’ve been worried about that, almost to the exclusion of everything else for the last 15 months.” 
- Jordan Peterson

Interesting. I am far more inclined to worry about the state of the nation and the survival of the West myself; if I make a mistake, then I will simply own up to it and correct it. In any event, you have made a big mistake, Dr. Peterson. And you've doubled down on it twice already.

UPDATE: Another informative Peterson quote demonstrating that he is not on the side of the West.

"I'm not anti-feminist."
Facebook, August 10, 2017

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137 Comments:

Blogger Antony April 30, 2018 2:51 AM  

Maybe slightly OT (or is it ...) ; Vice are worried that many atheists are getting interested in the Alt-Right ; https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jx8/too-many-atheists-are-veering-dangerously-toward-the-alt-right?utm_campaign=sharebutton - speaking from a British perspective, many atheists/secularists got involved in the counter-jihad movement and EDL etc due to the "Formal" atheist organisations being hopelessly hijacked by the Left, and not up to the task of doing something about grooming gangs etc.
I suspect (((they))) are worried about the focus of atheism , now it has been applied to Islam, also being applied to Jewish supremacism.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch April 30, 2018 3:02 AM  

It's so damned weird how red-pilled folks have latched on to Peterson. I just don't get it. I saw a 4-minute video of him once--that I think you linked to on this blog. But other than that, the crap he talks about is so basic to me, with a few exceptions.

He's just not that spectacular. Why is he so praised and acclaimed? He bores me. Of all the content out there to latch on to, red-pilled guys hold on to this guy? It just puzzles me.

I've never been a fan of him.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 3:07 AM  

Of all the content out there to latch on to, red-pilled guys hold on to this guy?

Maybe because it's safe to recommend someone who doesn't say much more than "clean your room and stop smoking pot". Everyone sense that things are falling apart, but they aren't up to facing the reality of the situation. They literally can't handle the truth.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 30, 2018 3:17 AM  

"A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me..."

You don't say, good chap!

Shall we look in the physiognomy ball and see what bodes?

Suddenly it all makes sense!

Blogger Meimou April 30, 2018 3:24 AM  

When he DP'ed Faith Goldie, I told myself he was under pressure to distance himself from the "alt right". When he insulted millennial woes and refused to debate him for $500,(just for 1 hour) I told myself he was simply countersignaling and a bit of a pussy.

Then the Jewish IQ happened, and now this. I saw similar red flags with the littlest chicken hawk before I concluded he was CO. Didn't have much invested in Peterson so I'm not hurt, but it's a bit disappointing to see someone I thought an ally turn out to be neutral or an enemy.

A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me...

Sigh. It could be an attempt to gain credit with the left, Paul "Prison Lips" Waston* does it and he is a ally...


*if PJW isn't a fag those lips are wasted.

Blogger Samuel Nock April 30, 2018 3:30 AM  

"A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me"

To any critic who holds his ideas up to scrutiny from a Right-wing perspective, Peterson responds with invective and ad hominem. Sad!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 30, 2018 3:37 AM  

"If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily."

Is it still a catfight if only one side is slapping, and it's a dude with horrifying makeup?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 30, 2018 3:56 AM  

He's a psychologist. He spouts bullshit for a living, that's what they do.

Blogger Samuel Nock April 30, 2018 3:57 AM  

Peterson is trying to be the Goldilocks of acceptable political opinion: "This porridge is too racist! This porridge is too scientifically untenable! THIS porridge is Just Right."

The Left will disown him, and he is too far behind the intelligent Right to be taken seriously by anyone who has done any thinking on these issues.

OpenID markstoval April 30, 2018 4:08 AM  

"Ultimately I believe that Peterson is an elaborate and very clever deception to prevent young men from inadvertently straying off the progressive reservation."

I think this may be the best short description of Peterson so far.

The left can't ever fight honestly, so deception is what they do. Hence, a Peterson; and if he falls then another will be found soon enough.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 30, 2018 4:16 AM  

@9 The Progressive bears will still rip him apart when they come home.

Blogger Bodo Staron April 30, 2018 4:18 AM  

You mention William F. Buckley Jr. a lot. It's been known for years that he was a member of Skull & Bones (Class of 1950). These people are Hegelian ideologues. The falseness you mentioned in the Periscope and on the blog is exactly that. I think you were searching for a different term for controlled opposition. They are doing what they do to clash to Thesis/Antithesis, to create a synthesis of some sorts. The book by Antony Sutton is still the best one out there that explains it well.

Regarding Peterson: It looks like he put quite a number of young people from the most miserable path on a somewhat better path. I wonder what will happen once his dishonesty get's more publicity.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 30, 2018 4:19 AM  

"The left can't ever fight honestly, so deception is what they do."

Everyone who wants to win uses deception. Tactics vs. objectives.

Blogger Samuel Nock April 30, 2018 4:22 AM  

There was, not all that long ago, what one could term an Honorable Left: I'm thinking of people such as Orwell. I'm not sure it is feasible anymore: To situate oneself on the Left is to be ineffectual, to obfuscate or to lie outright (to oneself, to others, or both). In 2018, to tell the truth is to be on the Right. Peterson has made his choice.

I never considered Right a synonym for true or good, or Left a synonym for lies and evil. But at this point, it's an accurate short-hand.

OpenID yclepedbobali April 30, 2018 4:32 AM  

I liked Peterson.

Ah well. Just me now.

To those wondering - he get's acclaim because he's the only person publicly opposing left idealogues from 'within' the academy. Like when a pretty women says something common, it has more allure coming from Peterson because he has the certification.

Vox doesn't have that. Basically no one on the Alt Right has it as a matter of course. We live in a society by licensure. Peterson has the license, so it has authority.

I'm so disappointed in him. I'm going to pretend he's being a fuckwit to purely out of necessity.

But I doubt it.

OpenID yclepedbobali April 30, 2018 4:35 AM  

Peterson is also aware of Vox's argument because he deleted it off his website so no one could see it.

Blogger Bogey April 30, 2018 4:44 AM  

@16 That's dishonest and sad.

It's best that Vox smoke his ass out of his little rabbit hole now.

Blogger urbino April 30, 2018 4:46 AM  

I have watched enough of Peterson's videos to know that he believes non-Western immigration into the West is self-evidently correct. On numerous occasions he has taught ideas about culture and what binds large groups of people together that call immigration seriously into question, but when asked about about immigration he falls into his passive-aggressive "this is too horrible" drama, even after he has many times claimed to support open debate of all ideas.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 30, 2018 4:46 AM  

I hope I'm not the only one who's itching for a debate between these two.

Blogger Stan Dane April 30, 2018 4:50 AM  

"Heavens to Murgatroyd! as Bugs Bunny had it"

Except Bugs Bunny didn't have it. "Heavens to Murgatroyd" was the catchphrase of the cartoon character Snagglepuss, a regular on the Yogi Bear Show that I grew up watching in the early 1960s.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len April 30, 2018 4:54 AM  

Nothing proclaims one to be a devotee of reasoned debate and intelligent discourse like immediately launching into ITG bullshit when challenged. What a dope.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 30, 2018 4:57 AM  

What a faggot

Blogger Bogey April 30, 2018 4:59 AM  

@21 Discredit, disqualify, we've seen it too many times now.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 30, 2018 5:04 AM  

With Vox having already demonstrated Peterson to be both incorrect and dishonest, and Peterson avoiding giving a response, I'm wondering what the purpose would be of a debate. Under the circumstances I would be shocked if Peterson agreed to do one.

Blogger Looking Glass April 30, 2018 5:12 AM  

Peterson is safe & acceptable (and knows how to play the game) such that he can sit on the limits of the Overton Window. The issue is he isn't trying to move it. That's the difference with someone like NN Taleb.

One could also call Peterson a Malcolm Gladwell with much better hair, though quite a lot of Peterson's appeal is simply he's one of the best lecturers you'll find. Everyone under age 40 has gone through years & years of lecture-based education, so Peterson just being outright better at it than >99% of the people in the space is a lot of the appeal. Plus not hating the people he's talking to sets him wildly apart.

Had a friend randomly bring up Peterson to me, so he's clearly broken through/they've given up trying to crush him.

Blogger S. Misanthrope April 30, 2018 5:17 AM  

Amazing that an evo-psych expert would make the mistake of viewing sociosexual hierarchy as some sort of binary good/bad. After Peterson failed to support Faith Goldy and gave a pathetic reason for it, I figured his value would be limited. But I admit I thought it would last a good bit longer than this.

Blogger Looking Glass April 30, 2018 5:22 AM  

On the JQ/IQ/Society presence issue, I'm kind of amazed no one -- in the public space that really doesn't want to talk about it -- doesn't just take the Cultural/Immigrant line? Jews, being a minority group, would seek positions that put them in low conflict but high income among the new environment. Legal/Media makes a lot of sense and families tend to follow other members of the family into similar fields. You can cite this effect with East Asian immigrants and Doctors/Engineers.

One can avoid the IQ/Nepotism issues, if you are in a position to need to, without resorting to lying about things.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 5:39 AM  

> I suspected Jordan Peterson not only lacked intellectual integrity, but was not even on the side of Western civilization at all.

I never thought he was, unless you consider classical free speech liberalism to be on the side of Western civilization.

> The Left will disown him, and he is too far behind the intelligent Right to be taken seriously by anyone who has done any thinking on these issues.

Agreed. The left hasn't gone after him yet because he's not a threat to them yet. They can lock him up any time they want to.

> Except Bugs Bunny didn't have it. "Heavens to Murgatroyd" was the catchphrase of the cartoon character Snagglepuss, a regular on the Yogi Bear Show that I grew up watching in the early 1960s.

Which tells you the depth of Peterson's scholarship. :)

Peterson is not of the alt-right. By modern liberal standards he's a liberal heretic, as he holds to the older standards that actually seemed to care about free speech. And eventually he'll be dealt with by the left the way all heretics are.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 5:42 AM  

> On the JQ/IQ/Society presence issue, I'm kind of amazed no one -- in the public space that really doesn't want to talk about it -- doesn't just take the Cultural/Immigrant line?

If Jews are like any other immigrant, then they can be removed like any other immigrant. They have to maintain their special status as "fellow white people" to remain safe (at least in their world view).

Blogger Crew April 30, 2018 5:47 AM  

Heavens to Murgatroyd! as Bugs Bunny had it: A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me...

And there I was thinking he was copying Scalzi. Oh wait, Scalzi uses terms like homophobic and dipshit.

Blogger tuberman April 30, 2018 5:53 AM  

His fan base will shrink now, as it should, and that's a good thing.

People will take notice of his wimpy character, as we are sick of all the losers. HE IS TOO SHORT FOR THE TRUTH RIDE.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums April 30, 2018 5:54 AM  

Being a long-time listener of Stefan Molyneux (managed to digest most of his podcasts and started when he reached 2000+) I know for a fact Peterson has brought nothing new to the front that Molyneux didn't already present.

I found it quite shocking listening to Peterson's Q&A Patreon streams and giving psychological/therapeutic ad-hoc advice to his patrons and being praised for it, compared to Stefan Molyneux doing the exact same thing only to be demonized, accused of running a cult, was pilloried in the press, and had his wife (whose a clinical psychologist) be put under supervision with the threat of revoking her license hanging over her head.

At first I assumed Peterson was doing a far better job at optics. Now it's apparent he's merely a humble 2000$ a piece carpet merchant. Nevertheless I'm also wondering if the MSM will do to him what they did to Milo: have dirt on him that will ruin his career, put him forth as a right-wing leader of sorts until he becomes a household name, release the dirt, watch the right take fracture into two camps.

Milo's fall came sometime after appearing on Bill Maher. Recently Peterson made an appearance there too. Brace yourselves, bucko's.

Blogger Lovekraft April 30, 2018 6:07 AM  

Baby boomers are kicking the can down the road, delaying any real audit of their ideology, and hoping the marxist mob isn't yet in full swing.

Peterson has mentioned that he is like a warning to the marxists that, should it continue on its way, what comes afterwards will be horrific. It's possible he was brought into a room and shown by the people who could turn these dogs loose that he has to follow a certain script.

It's up to the alt-right to consider how we play this to ensure the target is taken off our backs (50+ years of cultural marxism has put the white western Christian male as the prime target).

Blogger Howard Stone April 30, 2018 6:13 AM  

My point exactly, Ravi Zacharias has been around for decades, and he’s written many books each one more useful and edifying than 12 rules. Ravi helped me through college, and when I was surrounded by JPB’s.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 6:15 AM  

> Nevertheless I'm also wondering if the MSM will do to him what they did to Milo: have dirt on him that will ruin his career,

They won't need to. He works in Canada. He's already in violation of their speech laws. They can arrest him any time they want.

Blogger Salt April 30, 2018 6:44 AM  

I appreciate this post, Vox. I've been wanting some corroborative whatever and this has the earmarks of sufficiency, not that it's any smoking gun, but his doubling down, again, points to him having laid the egg in the elevator.

Blogger SirMaorio April 30, 2018 7:13 AM  

Reading through the comments on the tweet, quite interesting to see. starts with praise and "I'll always stick by you" comments and further down goes more along the lines of what you wrote and predicted would happen. He is basically being told he's an SJW (at least SJW adjacent)

Blogger ikacer April 30, 2018 7:20 AM  

Sean Last recently did an excellent analysis of Jewish over representation among the elite and their effects upon politics. In it he takes a different approach than you but also demonstrates that Jordan Peterson's statements about Jewish IQ are wrong.

In video form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh4MSZjhdoU

In blog form:

https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/the-jewish-question-an-empirical-examiniation/

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 30, 2018 7:36 AM  

@ 25. Looking Glass

"quite a lot of Peterson's appeal is simply he's one of the best lecturers you'll find."

There's a lot to this. Most university teaching is atrocious, and Peterson's base was disaffected college students. Just hearing someone speak well against the most extreme postmodern nonsense in that environment will have some resonance. But it really shouldn't go any further. Watching the filial attachment in some of his followers does illustrate how victims of a dysfunctional culture are easily manipulated.

As for Peterson himself, his public emotional incontinence, epistemological faith in psychology, and psychotropic drug use indicated a very familiar temperament. One that is not undermined by his current avoidance of fact, censoring arguments, and slinging ad hominems. The doubling down was preordained.

Blogger SouthRon April 30, 2018 7:39 AM  

He'd slap you? How gay.

The only question is whether he and George Will are members of homo bowtie or homo erectless.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 7:41 AM  

As for Peterson himself, his public emotional incontinence, epistemological faith in psychology, and psychotropic drug use indicated a very familiar temperament. One that is not undermined by his current avoidance of fact, censoring arguments, and slinging ad hominems. The doubling down was preordained.

Translations: Gammas can't take the heat, no matter how successful they become. He's obviously very smart, as he's been able to avoid any serious conflict up until now by virtue of being smarter than all of the people with whom he's been interacting.

That won't work with either Taleb or me. Taleb is smarter than Peterson is. I'm nearly as smart.

Blogger Carmina Fuentes April 30, 2018 7:54 AM  

I think what is more likely the case is that Peterson took a solid position (as a classical liberal) and suddenly got thrust into the spotlight, and now lots of folks on the alt-right are clay-molding the guy into something he never was, and never truly pretended to be. Sure, he makes good money now with his philosophy, but I don't think he has ever held himself out to be anything other than a guy who's baseline is "how to clean your room, and other things to improve your life"

Just having watched him "evolve" over the last year or so. Stefan on the other hand, goes where the evidence leads.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 30, 2018 7:55 AM  

Heavens to Murgatroid was from Snagglepuss, a Hanna Barbera cartoon, not Bugs Bunny.

Blogger OGRE April 30, 2018 7:56 AM  

@12 Bodo Staron

You're exactly right about Buckley and the way they use Hegelian dialectic to control the narrative, but I wasn't convinced that JP falls into the same category as Buckley until just recently after doing some thinking about all this. And while I'm pretty sure Buckley knew what he was doing, I don't think JP is aware of his intended role.

Hegelian dialectic (really its Fichte, but Hegel gets the credit) uses the thesis and antithesis to push a synthesis, but the synthesis contains common elements from both. In this way the antithesis is treated as the outer bounds of a domain, constraining the narrative and pushing it in the desired direction. For instance, presenting communism (international socialism) and nazism (nationalist socialism) as being in fierce opposition creates a distraction focused on the international vs nationalist aspect, but results in the common ground of socialism being steadily advanced in the background.

As Vox indicates, JP represents Modernism and is fiercely opposed to Post-modernism. Theres our thesis and anti-thesis...Post-modernism vs Modernism. But whats the synthesis? Whats being pushed that contains elements of both?

Answer: Transmodernism.

While Transmodernism is relatively new to the scene and is hardly fleshed out, it contains some elements of both modernism and post-modernism. But some of its major political tenets would be globalism, diversity, and environmentalism.

But the real danger of transmodernism is much more subtle, as it can be perceived as attempting to provide a spiritual replacement for Christ. Transmodernism rejects nihilism and determinism while embracing spirituality and religious experience, yet it wants to funnel them into a Grand Theory of Everything..a unification of all human knowledge and experience. (See Wilber's Integral Theory.)
The transmodernist would accept spiritual experiences as valid, yet would place it in a psychological framework rather than a metaphysical one.

Sound like anybody we know?

Again I don't think JP realizes what hes doing here, I think hes a true believer in the democratic socialism and liberalism of George Orwell. His rise to influence was far too organic to be orchestrated by himself or others. (google "smugglypuff" to see where JP first got noticed.) But he is stepping quite readily into the role of antithesis and could easily be the herald of an emerging transmodernist movement.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2018 8:03 AM  

I wonder if what we're seeing is that in a world of insane liberal... there is an actual centrist. if you were to draw up a centrist... one that disagreed with much of what both sides had to say but agreed with some of each. Peterson may fit that mold. After all the left would hate a centrist and scream that he was a right wing nut... and the right would also hate the centrist... and call him a left wing lunatic.

This is not a defense of course of peterson. I can think of little that would be more useless than a centrist.

OpenID herenvardo April 30, 2018 8:06 AM  

So he got something wrong. Why is anyone surprised? He just hasn't experienced anit-white racism in person, yet.

I detect a purity spiral here. Adam Piggot, with his 'Pussy pedestal' comment, sounds like a whingeing MGTOW.

Don't punch right, people.

Blogger Nate April 30, 2018 8:07 AM  

“I’m worried always that I’ll make a mistake in what I say… impulsive mistake, careless mistake, that I won’t be on top of things in a combative interview, that sort of thing, that I’ll make a mistake. I’ve been worried about that, almost to the exclusion of everything else for the last 15 months.”

I don't doubt this is true. The man is canadian. Not only would an impulsive mistake destroy his career and his ability to earn there is a very good chance it would end with him behind bars. Nothing would make the canadian progs happier than jailing peterson for badthink.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 8:07 AM  

Don't punch right, people.

Jordan Peterson is so far to my Left that he is barely a dot to me.

Blogger Garuna April 30, 2018 8:08 AM  

SJWs Always Double Down. Peterson turned out to be a real faggot in the end. I was willing to give him the Milo/Cerno pass. They are mostly liberal too. But they're also good human beings and ultimately beneficial to the Right as a bridge between us and liberals. I thought Peterson would be the same. But the JQ dishonesty, the doubling down, and the "rayciss sexiss" tweet put an end to that. He is closer to the tradthots than to Milo/Cerno. He's just a liberal reject who is using the Right for money, attention, and validation.

This btw is a serious problem for the right-wing. Every few years, a bunch of liberal rejects join our side and start acting like our leaders. And then they lose lose lose because they're too bluepilled and they eventually cuck on everything.

I don't really know how we can fix this problem. Most people on our side are too eager to embrace the "based black guy" or "based camwhore" or "based cucknadian professor". There is too much of an appeasement mindset. Too many nerds who see liberals as the 'cool kids' that they want to impress. It sickening to see right-wingers tweet #Ivanka2024. "Wouldn't it explode their heads if we got the first female president?" Fuckin hell.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 30, 2018 8:10 AM  

Nate wrote:I don't doubt this is true. The man is canadian. Not only would an impulsive mistake destroy his career and his ability to earn there is a very good chance it would end with him behind bars. Nothing would make the canadian progs happier than jailing peterson for badthink.

Canadian explains it, but gamma explains it better.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 8:12 AM  

Jordan B Peterson@jordanbpeterson
If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily.



*sigh*

one wonders if he thinks his slaps are as lethal as striking his wife would be.

how dare you accuse him of Fascism? after he prevented Faith Goldy from speaking at his 'Free Speech' event? why, it's not as if controlling the speech of others is a Fascist value
...
oops.

Greg Cochran's ( supposed genetic realist ) blog is now not even permitting me to post. there are others besides Greg who appear to have mod rights there so it's possible it's not direct action from him.

the signs aren't good though.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 8:16 AM  

46. herenvardo April 30, 2018 8:06 AM
Don't punch right, people.



Jordan is of the Left and is quite happy to tell you so.

if you think Jordan is of the 'Right', you're too short for this ride
...
new guy who is overly concerned about what others on the internet think of us.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 8:19 AM  

Most people on our side are too eager to embrace the "based black guy" or "based camwhore" or "based cucknadian professor". There is too much of an appeasement mindset.

Exactly. Nothing, literally nothing, thrills a cuckservative like someone who is not a straight white American man claiming to share their values. This is because it offers much-needed validation for the various falsehoods they have swallowed.

Blogger Garuna April 30, 2018 8:22 AM  

I think what is more likely the case is that Peterson took a solid position (as a classical liberal) and suddenly got thrust into the spotlight, and now lots of folks on the alt-right are clay-molding the guy into something he never was, and never truly pretended to be. Sure, he makes good money now with his philosophy, but I don't think he has ever held himself out to be anything other than a guy who's baseline is "how to clean your room, and other things to improve your life"

Just having watched him "evolve" over the last year or so. Stefan on the other hand, goes where the evidence leads.


No he is just a straight up fraud.

I used to put him in the Alt-Lite category. But that was before the JQ episode. He made countless """mistakes""" in his analysis. And every one of those """mistakes""" served to get the best Jewish numbers possible. Peterson is an intelligent guy. He knew what he was doing.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 8:22 AM  

VD
Yes, Peterson speaks certain truths, but only the easy and uncontroversial ones.



i don't know about that. he's already openly contravening Canadian Tranny speech Law.

if anything, he's a canary in the coal mine. today's legally required speech is something that a majority of people wouldn't even have seriously considered ( Xe / Xer? ) being concerned about five years ago.

the Leftists will have their Purity Spiral.

Blogger Cecil Henry April 30, 2018 8:36 AM  

Peterson started off telling the truth and engaging debate on the leftist talking points of the day.

But he doesn't seem to grasp that you can't just stop arbitrarily and say these are the areas of debate that are okay. Anything else must be avoided.

Peterson's latest tweet with Bugs Bunny is just shockingly pleading virtue signalling that he has all the right goodthink and of course, would rather be seen as anti-White than anti-Jewish.

His defiant but not arbitrary avoidance of certain areas of debate just screams dishonesty.

Really disappointing. This area is clearly where his dragons are found.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 8:39 AM  

56. Cecil Henry April 30, 2018 8:36 AM
Really disappointing. This area is clearly where his dragons are found.




he is an associate of Ezra Levant. you should have known that already. if Jordan did not decide to exclude Faith Goldy on his own, it was required by Ezra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXVDtICVwMA

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 8:40 AM  

that is to say, ((( Ezra Levant ))), if you weren't picking up on that.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 8:40 AM  

One of my core guidelines is to never, ever, trust anyone who goes into psychology or psychiatry about anything. They inevitably went into the field in order to try to figure out what is wrong with their own mind.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 30, 2018 8:45 AM  

So Peterson has issues with identity politics? That is an opening my friends, now if someone would ask him if he takes issue with left wing identity politics.

OpenID crapulux April 30, 2018 8:56 AM  

Some here seem surprised that JP turned out like he did...

I'm French, here everyone is on the left (if not outright commie vermin), so let me explain. A lefty/liberal is like someone's dog you meet on the trail while hiking. It might be cute, and it might do or say stuff that make you want to cuddle with it! But it’s still operating within the bounds of its software (whether it is "Dog OS" or "Liberal OS"). So if you make the mistake of completely trusting a liberal, it's like thinking this dog you just met is actually your dog!

It will bite you, and it'll be your fault for not seeing it coming.

It's like mistakenly thinking (((lil'-benny-boy))) isn't running on "Zion OS" with a conservative skin on top, and then you trust lil'-benny, and you become a huge fan (LOL), and then you're surprised when he bites off one of your ankles after you criticize (((someone)))? why the surprise? didn't you expect him to do that?

Remember, always be careful around animals! (and lefties) (and gammas) And no matter how much you might love to think a lefty has been tamed and is now on your side, never drop your guard...

Now, JP has been doing a lot of good, and some of it unwittingly (this is important, let me explain).

The obvious: JP is providing an easy entry point into the real world for the hordes of normies. He's just controversial enough, but not too controversial. Edgy, but he doesn’t scare off the normies like Vox does. This is because he’s indeed a liberal, so people on the left who have the potential to swing right, but have not realized it yet, are able to identify with JP and listen to JP but not to Vox, or even Milo, because the latter are too hardcore. JP has been amazing on the Lindsay Shepard affair, for example, dealing quite a blow to the SJW-infested universities.

The less obvious: The fact that Adam Piggot (as quoted by Vox) ends up disappointed by Peterson is a good thing. His fans who are actual closet conservatives will outgrow JP and level up to a bit more right-wing material.

To the crowd here: has JP’s “betrayal” of the right taught you something? Could it possibly be that he didn’t betray anyone, simply you were wrong to think he was on our side from the beginning...

JP does good things. Also he is definitely not on our side. No problem with that.

And this is yet one more reason why I like JP! He is eventually going to cuck out and go down in flames and disappoint the right-wing fraction of his fans, and this will teach them a lesson. Ironically this is what JP has been saying all along, they will have to think for themselves… VD had a post about not turning heroes into gods recently, it’s on point.

VD wrote:So what? Milo did even better. (against Cathy Newman).

What measures “better” here is the effect it has on the hordes of normie watching.

Milo failed against Cathy Newman, they spent all the interview talking over each other and no-one heard Milo’s arguments. JP, on the other hand, scored big time by making the harpy shut up and admit defeat.

But the best part is what JP didn’t do. The “Troll Army” he didn’t even know he had decided to unleash itself on Cathy, while JP meekly tried to rein them in and apologize (he was really pitiful on this one, squeaking from the sides “stop it you rude scoundrels!” LOL).

So he unwittingly managed to create something akin to the Dread Ilk, then unwittingly made them realize he was unfit to lead them, and they went on a hilarious meme rampage.

Of course the milquetoast fans are gonna milquetoast, but this one made a fraction of his fans realize they were actually on our side… that’s important… these fans are, like, using their brains for the first time, and realizing they can actually counter-attack the marxists! We can’t expect them to go all the way to the alt-right on their first day out of the matrix.

Blogger Avalanche April 30, 2018 8:58 AM  

@2 and @3 the crap he talks about is so basic to me, with a few exceptions.

Ah, but YOU men are already grown up. You already are part of that dwindling population of actual grown men who've had actual educations... These young men desperately responding to Peterson's "common knowledge" have neither seen nor ever heard anything close to "common knowledge." They have only ever known "toxic masculinity" directed at them from all sides, including, boomer-mom (from ages 3 or 4); and, every man is a rapist only lacking opportunity; and, every woman (and black and gay and muzzie and mexie ... pick your "oppressed" group ... has been horribly and permanently mistreated by YOU, you horrible racist, sexist,misogynistic, cisnormative, homophobic, islamophobic, trannie-hating male horror, you: It's ALL your fault! (And they're 16, 18, 20 -- never been in the real world, never even seen a real man, cause, where would they have?)

This is the first man (and he appears to be a man to these poor boys) who has ever said to them: you are worthwhile, society needs you -- it has a hole just your size in it and will miss you if you don't step up. (Oh, and here's where to start stepping up.)

To you adult males, to you actual MEN, not educated by today's propaganda? This is the first time they have ever been told they are worthwhile. If you're dying of thirst in a desert, and someone offers you even swamp-water --you will grasp onto it for your very life.

(Did you never notice that all "men" movies --however (((propagandized))) and twisted -- are never shown anymore? No Cagney, no Stewart, no Wayne -- just "Dumb and Dumber" and more 'Peter Pan' crap. Where would these kids even hear about "common sense" and how could they not grab on for dear life when someone appears with a semblance of it?)

Blogger Garuna April 30, 2018 9:07 AM  

So Peterson has issues with identity politics? That is an opening my friends, now if someone would ask him if he takes issue with left wing identity politics.

This is a fake argument, MantraMan. Nobody is saying that he must push identity politics. Most of us knew he was liberal on many issues. And we were even willing to let him avoid the JQ totally to protect his reputation. The problem is his endless lies and doubling down to the point of "rayciss sexiss".

And your problem is your unwillingness to see the defects in your hero.

Blogger dienw April 30, 2018 9:09 AM  

I found Jordan Peterson interesting enough to watch several of his videos especially those from his class lectures; but, I never considered him a conservative, nor a Christian: he is a Jungian; he has immersed himself in Jung's writings and philosophy: Jung believed Nietzsche's statement that God is dead and we, modern man, have killed him; from there, Jung tried to answer "what shall we do?": his answer was to go deeply into the inner nature of man starting with himself; therefore we understand Peterson accepts Nietzsche's position that God is dead as well as Jung's remedy to look to Man for the solution to the modern dilemma; therefor, I am not surprised to find Vox is questioning Peterson's integrity: there is no morality for Peterson but the morality of fallen and depraved Man.

Blogger basementhomebrewer April 30, 2018 9:21 AM  

Jordan B Peterson is crossing NN Taleb? Does the B stand for Beard?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 30, 2018 9:22 AM  

Garuna let Peterson fight the left because it seems he has issues with identity politics so therefore he can address the Left 's golden calf

Blogger Nathan April 30, 2018 9:26 AM  

Petersom should start lifting. Everything would fix itself up.

Blogger Nathan April 30, 2018 9:28 AM  

Also, from context clues, I think Peterson went into psych because his dad was a piece of shit. Would explain his difficulty with God the Father.

Blogger haus frau April 30, 2018 9:30 AM  

"Just having watched him "evolve" over the last year or so. Stefan on the other hand, goes where the evidence leads. "

Molyneux is is an interesting character. I occasionally watch his youtube channel. He sometimes makes statements to the effect that he doesn't know how to anchor a moral code with out God. I don't know that he will ever take the leap toward Christianity but he that admission still puts him light years ahead of the average atheist, including Petersen.

Blogger Some Guy April 30, 2018 9:30 AM  

@VD

"One of my core guidelines is to never, ever, trust anyone who goes into psychology or psychiatry about anything. They inevitably went into the field in order to try to figure out what is wrong with their own mind."

Is that from a general distrust of psychology as a whole, or just the people who practice it?

Blogger Flair1239 April 30, 2018 9:30 AM  

Peterson has never claimed to be anything other than a moderate. What has made him unusual is his willingness to do the following:

1. Talk about the biological differences between men and women and how they effect outcomes.

2. Talk about the role of IQ in outcomes and that IQ is not evenly distributed.

3. Speak about hierarchies and their necessity in society.

4. Speak out about the non viability of communism.

Again he has never claimed to be of the right, only that in a healthy society the right needs to be heard. He is basically holding the left accountable for their extremism.


Blogger urbino April 30, 2018 9:34 AM  

Peterson distorts the facts in order to present a catchy story that will please a popular audience. For example he likes to cite the book Ordinary Men, claiming that ordinary German policemen who were sent to occupy Poland progressively committed worse and worse deeds until they were shooting pregnant women in the back of the head. The CO said that any man who didn't want to shoot could step out, but none did. This story is untrue.

Most of the battalion rank-and-file had never worked as police offers. Instead of a long progression, it was only a two-step process. The men transported Jews from villages to ghettos until one day they were ordered to shoot all of the Jewish women and children in one village. The CO said that any man could step out. Twelve did, and even more avoided shooting at the massacre site. 10 or 20 percent went on to develop strategies to avoid ever shooting any civilians throughout their deployment. So much for the story of every last man choosing to murder women and children.

You can examine a man's psyche by looking at what information goes in and what distorted version comes out. Peterson takes a story in which some men had great moral courage and turns it into the darkest most hideous possible retelling where every last man gradually turned into a monster because they all lacked a moral compass. How interesting.

Blogger Zaklog the Great April 30, 2018 9:34 AM  

It is somewhat ironic that Peterson makes it a primary marker of going "too far" on the right (into Nazi-ish territory) to talk about racial superiority, but he is essentially calling Jews a superior race here. I guess that makes him a pro-Jew Nazi.

Blogger Some Guy April 30, 2018 9:36 AM  

@Flair1239

"Again he has never claimed to be of the right, only that in a healthy society the right needs to be heard. He is basically holding the left accountable for their extremism. "

Let it go. The momentum against him is already too big here and you will be labelled all manner of meme inducing wittiness. Vox will go to town on him for another week or two and move on as long as people just stay quiet about it.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira April 30, 2018 9:39 AM  

It's fun to know that Peterson read VD's quote in Mr Piggot's post.

Blogger Surly April 30, 2018 9:40 AM  

he is treading the broad and easy path that leads to public acclamation as well as other destinations

Fantastic. I LOLed.

Blogger David The Good April 30, 2018 9:44 AM  

Piggott just pushed Peterson's rubber downstream.

Blogger CM April 30, 2018 9:44 AM  

It does rather look as if Peterson is little more than the newest member of the Approved Opposition to be anointed by the mainstream media, to go with "whip-smart" Benny Shapiro, George "now, that twists my bowtie" Will, and the Official Conservative of the Washington Post, Megan McCardle, collectively known as the Washington Generals, media edition.

How many other newcomers are this, as well? Could Dave Rubin fall in this spot, too?

Blogger David The Good April 30, 2018 9:45 AM  

(https://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Rubber-Downhill-whitewater-adventures-ebook/dp/B01EXLYCQ4/)

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 30, 2018 9:46 AM  

Is that from a general distrust of psychology as a whole, or just the people who practice it?

It’s from experience and pattern recognition.

To add to Vox’s data point, my experience is exactly the same.

OpenID ages345 April 30, 2018 9:49 AM  

The eternal Canadian.

Blogger S1AL April 30, 2018 9:52 AM  

"One of my core guidelines is to never, ever, trust anyone who goes into psychology or psychiatry about anything. They inevitably went into the field in order to try to figure out what is wrong with their own mind."

They're pretty open about it, too. A running joke amongst psychology majors is asking people joining the department, "So, what's your damage?"

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 9:56 AM  

Peterson has never claimed to be anything other than a moderate.

But most of his fans have claimed that he is a man of the Right and most of his support comes from the Right.

Also, he has no intellectual integrity. So, anything that he says about himself is dubious anyhow. He's not a moderate, he's just another Left-Liberal who has enough sense to be afraid of SJWs.

Blogger FUBARwest April 30, 2018 9:56 AM  

Sounds like a gamma has been uncovered. That might be why some of his fans are so adamant he dindu nothing. It sucks to realize you put a gamma on a pedastool. What would that say about you?

Blogger Some Guy April 30, 2018 10:09 AM  

@Resident Moron

I get the pattern recognition, I was basically trying to figure out if he saw Psychology as a useful tool or not.

Blogger maniacprovost April 30, 2018 10:11 AM  

It's unfortunate that Vox seems constitutionally unable to deviate from his one rhetorical strategy. Not tactic, guys. Over the years his rhetorical game has improved until he is quite good tactically. But it's all in support of his one strategy.

Do what you do best, I suppose.

OpenID paworldandtimes April 30, 2018 10:12 AM  

Nothing, literally nothing, thrills a cuckservative like someone who is not a straight white American man claiming to share their values.

Muh Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Blogger RobertT April 30, 2018 10:33 AM  

Yeah. Initially he was interesting, but eventually he became just another attention whore. Has anyone noticed his videos never discuss the label applied to it?

Blogger Peter Gent April 30, 2018 10:34 AM  

maniacprovost wrote:It's unfortunate that Vox seems constitutionally unable to deviate from his one rhetorical strategy. Not tactic, guys. Over the years his rhetorical game has improved until he is quite good tactically. But it's all in support of his one strategy.

Do what you do best, I suppose.


Unable or unwilling since he protects the ground he has taken by not titling at windmills. Focus is an asset, not a liability.

Blogger S. Misanthrope April 30, 2018 10:35 AM  

He’s spouted the “immigrants are natural conservatives” line a few times that I’ve seen. No data to back it up of course. Odd for such a rigorous academic, eh?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 30, 2018 10:46 AM  

"Psychology"

It's the softest of the sciences, assuming we ignore the "social" ones that are actually even softer more deceitful subsets of psych. It also makes worse predictions than do meteorologists when predicting weather beyond a handful of days, and that's saying something.

I hadn't considered the avenue of people going into psych in attempts to figure out why their own minds are broken, but it does make sense in certain ways, and mostly checks with my anecdotals. My only erstwhile counterexamples would be a couple of people I knew whom I suspect were thinking about going into psych to try to figure out what the deal was with close friends or family members of theirs.

When you consider that even if a psychologist were honest, they're facing the same problem as theoretical von-neumann probes... it really should be obvious to most people that the mind is going to have a bad time trying to completely conceptualize either itself or something very much like it.

Then you throw in the point that pretty much everybody lies about something or other, and both psych doctors and patients routinely have about as much motive as is humanly possible to lie about what's actually going on...

Expected matches received.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 30, 2018 10:48 AM  

"Do what you do best, I suppose."

People tend to do what they perceive as working.

People also tend to criticize what works if they aren't the one capable of doing it.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 10:59 AM  

It's unfortunate that Vox seems constitutionally unable to deviate from his one rhetorical strategy.

"Seems". There it is.

Blogger Six April 30, 2018 11:04 AM  

Thank you for addressing this Vox. I admit I have been at least partially drawn in by Peterson. That was obviously a failure of discernment on my part. Clearly I need to do better. I very much appreciate your time and effort spent educating me on this man.

Blogger Go clones April 30, 2018 11:40 AM  

Went and read the Piggot article and glad I did. Always realized that JBP was not Alt-Right but thought he was a conservative and it appears that was wrong as well. Its tricky because he's a Liberal railing against the worst excesses of other Liberals ... the Cultural Marxists. See I saw the common enemy, I figured he was on our side ... and I was wrong.

But the biggest argument that Piggott made ... inadvertently I think ... is that while JBP issues a wake up call for men and gives them a better path ... he does not do so for women. Because women get the free pass, the pussy pass, whatever women want is just fine and dandy with JBP ... its why he's a married non-alpha, pussy whipped, cuck. He worships the almighty vagina like all the cucks.

Maybe I'll change on JBP if he stops being a cuck and starts addressing women ... and issues edicts and mandates to them ... how to change their behavior because it is Feminism in a large part that has led us to where we are. Feminism and vagina worship is just a gateway drug to Cultural Marxism, globalism, open borders, etc ... until that is shut down ... nothing JBP says is going to make that much of a difference. He may wake up some men ... who will get slaughtered once they "man-up" because he doesn't address the real issue.

Basically, Peterson needs to address the real problem ... not a symptom. The real problem is women and Feminism; the symptom is men getting fucked over, being brainwashed, and giving up. He's just teaching men to give women what they want.

So, yeah, like the JQ/IQ deception ... he does the same with Cultural Marxism doesn't tell the truth or offer solutions. Just lies and bullshit ... well spun lies and bullshit ... pretty convincing to young men going nowhere. Exactly what would you expect from someone who comes from a Psychology background. As others have pointed out ... only the mentally ill go into that field ... garbage in ... garbage out.

Just I'll monitor JBP now and then to see if he takes on the role of women ... another hot button of course ... just like the JQ. But until he does ... off the reading list ...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 11:46 AM  

You were banned, Rambam.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 11:59 AM  

But the biggest argument that Piggott made ... inadvertently I think ... is that while JBP issues a wake up call for men and gives them a better path ... he does not do so for women.

The good news is that Peterson tells young men to behave like men. The bad news is that Peterson also tells young women to behave like men.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 12:01 PM  

> You already are part of that dwindling population of actual grown men who've had actual educations...

Not really. Almost no one in the last 60 years has received an actual education unless they were privately schooled. The rot had already started in the 1960's when I started school. Most of us are self taught.

> I was basically trying to figure out if he saw Psychology as a useful tool or not.

Not trying to speak for Vox, but not really. Psychiatry is a useful too, but not psychology.

Blogger Iowahine April 30, 2018 12:03 PM  

I'm a fan of Peterson's and yours VD. Have learned and been influenced greatly by both of you - your writing, his speaking. Had hoped you could be an influence to Peterson.

I've listened to hours of Peterson's conversations re: psychological significance of bible, psychology classes, 12-rules, patreon Q&As, other interviews (including Molyneux which first introduced me to JBP). From my recollection, Peterson has never claimed to be anything but a "classic" Canadian liberal who has become disillusioned with liberalism. He has never claimed to be on the right and like most everyone else, has wrong understanding of the alt-right.

Still, I've been encouraged by his positive message to young men and regarding western civilization; only other place I'd encountered this message was here/from VD. I get sense Peterson has had his head in academia and been partially woke by bill c-16 fallout.

He speaks of living in fear - personally - and for our civilization. Again, he can gain from VD's writing. He learned - kinda - never apologize after he did re: Cathy Newman. He took a gamble to expand his market, exploit his popularity, and is having a good ride in no-man's land for now, for he has never claimed to be on the right, yet been embraced by the lite-right, and wrongly associated with the right and alt-right (which, as noted, he doesn't understand so wrongly condemns). He may well crash and burn before it's all over. From listening to hours of his talks, he too advocates "fail faster."

It appears you are associating Peterson's "sanctimonious prick" twitter response to the guy who accused him of touting the "noble savage" narrative - as if that was Peterson's response to Talib? Guess I'm not capable of connecting those dots . . .

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 12:09 PM  

From my recollection, Peterson has never claimed to be anything but a "classic" Canadian liberal who has become disillusioned with liberalism. He has never claimed to be on the right and like most everyone else, has wrong understanding of the alt-right.

A classic Canadian liberal is a Leftist. Peterson is not disillusioned with liberalism, he is afraid of the SJW extremists. He is a metaphorical Menshevik and the fact that he opposes the modern Bolsheviks does not mean that he is our side. He is not. He regards us as the enemy and he supports our enemies. He is to the Left of the cucks that most of you Peterson fans rightly despise. He gets virtually nothing right and he does not oppose the two biggest dangers to the West, immigration and feminism.

It appears you are associating Peterson's "sanctimonious prick" twitter response to the guy who accused him of touting the "noble savage" narrative - as if that was Peterson's response to Talib?

No, I am not doing that and it does not appear that I am doing that. It has nothing to do with Taleb.

Blogger Gordon Scott April 30, 2018 12:13 PM  

Avalanche wrote:@2 and @3 the crap he talks about is so basic to me, with a few exceptions.

Ah, but YOU men are already grown up. You already are part of that dwindling population of actual grown men who've had actual educations...

This is the first man (and he appears to be a man to these poor boys) who has ever said to them: you are worthwhile, society needs you -- it has a hole just your size in it and will miss you if you don't step up. (Oh, and here's where to start stepping up.)

To you adult males, to you actual MEN, not educated by today's propaganda? This is the first time they have ever been told they are worthwhile. If you're dying of thirst in a desert, and someone offers you even swamp-water --you will grasp onto it for your very life.


Yes, exactly. I may have taken the red pill just a couple of years ago, but I grew up in a mostly rational world, with plenty of role models and a culture that did not denigrate masculinity. I can read Peterson or listen to his lectures and appreciate how much he appeals to men who have been marinated in this toxic brew of crap for their conscious lives.

You have value. You have a purpose. Stand up, straighten up your world, and do something useful, something creative. Jordan Peterson speaks directly to their souls in a way no one has. They are not going to stumble upon this blog or Return of Kings, but Peterson is reaching tens of thousands, if not millions.

It doesn't mean we have to worship him. But let's give credit where it is due. It may not have been his intention, but he's doing useful work. He ain't perfect, and he himself has learning to do. But while he is not on "our" side, he's at least not our enemy.

Blogger Jack Amok April 30, 2018 12:15 PM  

Maybe I'll change on JBP if he stops being a cuck and starts addressing women ... and issues edicts and mandates to them ... how to change their behavior because it is Feminism in a large part that has led us to where we are.

Sigh.

I never followed Peterson all that closely (and am certainly not going to start now), but from what I saw, the main good he did was telling men to take charge of themselves and do the most they could with their own lives. Whether he's a Gamma impostor or controlled opposition, that advice is still fine.

The truth of the world is, it really is men's fault. Good or bad, society is what men make of it. If there are strong men around, women will follow them. If there aren't, women will go batshit crazy trying to provoke a response. Feminism is the result of too many weak men. If we want less of it, we need more strong men who won't put up with it.

So give up the Gamma notion of some hero coming along and "fixing" women for you. That's every man's job. Every time you see a feminist, "who's bitch is this?" is the question to ask. Yeah, there's lots of obstacles and pitfalls. That's life.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 12:15 PM  

But while he is not on "our" side, he's at least not our enemy.

You're wrong. He is our enemy and he is an enemy of the West. This will become increasingly obvious over time.

Blogger Lamarck Leland April 30, 2018 12:18 PM  

If you were in my room right now and I was 20 years younger and 20 lbs heavier and 20 inches taller, I'd slap you.

Blogger Iowahine April 30, 2018 12:26 PM  

VD: The good news is that Peterson tells young men to behave like men. The bad news is that Peterson also tells young women to behave like men.

Yup. Again, Left-remnants, playing upon that men and women have some overlapping traits. He does acknowledge that we don't tell young women the "truth" or yet understand fully the fallout of post-Pill era. And, while he calls himself a traditionalist, he doesn't go so far as to advocate a return to traditional female roles, though he often sites data that show in countries which have implemented most measures to level out career playing field, female and male roles are more distinctly traditional male and female.

He is also hoodwinked by "big problem of inequality," and does site that "no one" was happy about IQ data. He does draw a line at "equity of outcome" and advocates students (K+) to walk out of classes that use such language.

He's a mixed bag of interesting info. People are listening to how he says what he says. I personally enjoy his style and that I can listen while doing other things. Conversations between VD and JBP would be way more useful than Peterson's PR-driven appearances on Fox, or with Shapiro and Harris. The big-sis/old auntie in me can hope . . .

Blogger OneWingedShark April 30, 2018 12:30 PM  

markstoval wrote:"Ultimately I believe that Peterson is an elaborate and very clever deception to prevent young men from inadvertently straying off the progressive reservation."

I think this may be the best short description of Peterson so far.

The left can't ever fight honestly, so deception is what they do. Hence, a Peterson; and if he falls then another will be found soon enough.

This would be the most sensible for the elites to push: just imagine the consequences of a huge portion of 18-45 aged men realizing that the elites have been pushing them out of society, out of work (via H1B for the skilled/technical & via "undocumented immigrants" for the unskilled).

If the realization hit hard enough, I think we'd see French Revolution-style obliteration of the political caste. [And likely the multi-national corporation and bankster castes as well.]

Blogger Sam Spade April 30, 2018 12:35 PM  

Checkmate.

This is it. For somebody so worried about standing firm not using the enemy's language in form of pronouns, this tweet use all of the SJW vocabulary against a reasonable critic.

"Jordan B Peterson@jordanbpeterson
Heavens to Murgatroyd! as Bugs Bunny had it: A misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologue disapproves of me..."

Blogger slarrow April 30, 2018 12:36 PM  

It appears you are associating Peterson's "sanctimonious prick" twitter response to the guy who accused him of touting the "noble savage" narrative - as if that was Peterson's response to Talib?

No, I am not doing that and it does not appear that I am doing that. It has nothing to do with Taleb.


That's what it looked like to me too, Vox. It was wildly out of context, especially since your preceding paragraph insinuated that Peterson was taking on lightweights instead of people like you and Taleb. But that quote's context wasn't about picking on easy intellectual targets. Rather, a writer had characterized a friendship Peterson had with a tribal native as some sort of token paternalistic thing, and Peterson responded very angrily (disturbing some of his followers for language.) That's not dismissing arguments with name-calling and posturing; that's just a guy who got pissed and lost his temper.

Look, I know you don't like the guy, and you've already made up your mind on him. That's fine--no skin off my nose. But you did mischaracterize that tweet.

Blogger Iowahine April 30, 2018 12:43 PM  

It appears you are associating Peterson's "sanctimonious prick" twitter response to the guy who accused him of touting the "noble savage" narrative - as if that was Peterson's response to Talib?

No, I am not doing that and it does not appear that I am doing that. It has nothing to do with Taleb.

Got it. And, got it - enemy, dishonest, not on our side, etc., etc. Done and done.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 12:43 PM  

That's what it looked like to me too, Vox.

That's nice. MPAI. It said nothing whatsoever about Taleb.

But you did mischaracterize that tweet.

Bullshit. You are making erroneous assumptions that are totally unjustified by the text. The fact that Taleb's name was mentioned as one of his critics prior to the quoted tweet does not imply in any way that the tweet was directed at Taleb.

You are mischaracterizing my actions. My description of it is 100 percent accurate. I never said or implied that the tweet was directed at Taleb.


Blogger Dirk Manly April 30, 2018 1:49 PM  

@2

"It's so damned weird how red-pilled folks have latched on to Peterson. I just don't get it. I saw a 4-minute video of him once--that I think you linked to on this blog. But other than that, the crap he talks about is so basic to me, with a few exceptions."

When you've grown up without a father, merely a series of degenerates who your mom has called $current_boyfriend, your schools are run by obese blue-haired lesbians who insist that boys who don't act like girls should be drugged, games in gym class have no scores or winners & losers, and even organized sports leagues have participation trophies, even a goofy libtard like J B Peterson seems like both an example of masculinity AND a radical right-winger.

Blogger Kep Hartman April 30, 2018 1:58 PM  

All heroes
Of the earth
Have feet of clay.

Blogger Cubby8126 April 30, 2018 2:37 PM  

There actually is a video of him stating that he is a classic liberal among other things after he got attacked by a media outlet and called a far right extremeist. Vox do you mind if i post the link or do you just not care about it?

Blogger dienw April 30, 2018 2:53 PM  

Lamarck Leland wrote:If you were in my room right now and I was 20 years younger and 20 lbs heavier and 20 inches taller, I'd slap you.

Game of thrones must not be filming.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 3:23 PM  

Vox do you mind if i post the link or do you just not care about it?

As you wish. I don't care.

Blogger tublecane April 30, 2018 3:41 PM  

Peterson came to my attention, like most everyone else, through that BBC interview. Which was mostly notable from my perspective for how incompetent the woman was. I suppose it's notable that a Canadian professor was willing to say very publicly what he said, but his comments came off to me like the weakest possible formulation of the argument that the pay gap doesn't really exist.

Which could have been because he was treading lightly. But more likely is just because he's barely on our side at all, if he is in fact on our side.

Blogger tublecane April 30, 2018 3:56 PM  

I've been thinking about the bugaboo of identity politics lately, and why moderates and squishy-cons despise them so. Admittedly, I looked down on them earlier in life. Not identity politics in the sense Vox talks about them, however. More like in the sense of single-issue voting.

Take the coalition forged by FDR (please), which was presented to me as one group after another voting according to certain "identities," for instance the aged, the unemployed, blacks, etc. I mistook that for a form of cheating, because there was no way each group could be satisfied. There'd inevitably be conflict, and you couldn't possibly reduce whole groups' interests down to singular identifications. Middle-class blacks (such as there are) might not have the same interests as middle-class whites, but they're certainly not in the same boat as gangbangers.

That was then. Now, I know that picture of "identity politics" wasn't what other people had in mind. The idea that it's not right to base politics on things you identify with, like ethnicity, nationality, or culture...what? I never knew that's what Conservatism Inc. stood against. Had I known, I would've told them to go suck an egg 20 years ago.

How would one be a patriot without identity politics? Patriots literally stand for the "ways of their fathers." No, this antipathy towards identity is just silly. Part of the massive deception wrapped around all politics my entire life, and assume since at least the progressive era.

What are we supposed to base political decisions on, exactly? Conservatives don't officially believe in ideology, even. What then, flipping coins? Unalloyed reason? That's impossible.

Blogger Cubby8126 April 30, 2018 6:07 PM  

Will do

Blogger Y. April 30, 2018 6:10 PM  

@107 Sam Spade

Time to go back and read Vox's article on rhetoric and dialectic.

What's he supposed to say? Even if he approved of you, of which I'm skeptical, he'd never be buds with Vox.

Certainly not after what you wrote.

Remember, he's the guy who's spent five years posting videos on youtube making evolutionary apologetics for patriarchy and religion and hasn't managed to say one single objectionable thing that'd have let the press crucify him.

I believe him when he says his verbal IQ is ~150+.

Blogger Alphaeus April 30, 2018 6:11 PM  

"Everyone who wants to win uses deception. Tactics vs. objectives."

I would say that the main difference is lying to your enemies as a tactic versus lying to your "friends" as a strategy.

"When you lie to your friends your enemies don't respect you, and you ain't got no friends no more."
Or something to that effect.

I took a lot of flack recently for saying that I did not want to throw everyone everywhere who happened to call themselves by the obsolete label "conservative" under the bus. Well, I would like to point out that while I had not thrown JBP under the bus yet, I never let him actually sit in my bus but only allowed him to ride along behind it in a makeshift trailer bouncing along behind it, and now I have no problem unhitching him completely, because I do not take seriously anyone who complains about misogynistic antisemitic right-wing identity-politics ideologues all in one sentence. We all know where JBP has to be coming from when he uses the phraseology of our enemies that way. Our enemies are his friends, or, at the very least, his masters and controllers and owners.

I propose from now on we always assume that anyone who has any connection to a converged institution, like Professor JBP, is a poseur, and is only allowed to appear to be reasonable in order to bamboozle us. I usually assumed that before, but I confess now that I failed to ALWAYS assume it, completely.

I should never have let JBP ride in the little trailer behind my bus.

Blogger Cubby8126 April 30, 2018 6:14 PM  

I dont think its exactly mind blowong, but it supports the theory of him being liberal and not right. https://youtu.be/HxfFxhERMYY

Blogger Meng Greenleaf April 30, 2018 6:56 PM  

I did like that Peterson stood up to the language-police and he may be an effective psychologist. Otherwise he seems like another self-help guru trying to make a quick buck.

Decades of working in hard neurochemistry has taught me of how little we understand the intricacies of the brain. That said, perhaps the Peterson's are the best psychology can produce professionally, but that's not saying much of Peterson but more of the placebo effect.

Blogger LP999-16 April 30, 2018 7:02 PM  

Great to know and I never excuse JP's newest or 4/2018 words regarding the 'matter'.

119 Y is still here, interesting.

Blogger LP999-16 April 30, 2018 7:25 PM  

Immense clarity, thank you;

"It does rather look as if Peterson is little more than the newest member of the Approved Opposition to be anointed by the mainstream media, to go with "whip-smart" Benny Shapiro, George "now, that twists my bowtie" Will, and the Official Conservative of the Washington Post, Megan McCardle, collectively known as the Washington Generals, media edition. Don't forget, William F. Buckley became the pope of the conservative movement back in the day on the basis of his show Firing Line and his public demolition of various leftist patsies such as Gore Vidal.

Yes, Peterson speaks certain truths, but only the easy and uncontroversial ones. From what I see, he is treading the broad and easy path that leads to public acclamation as well as other destinations. But the real problem with Peterson is that he is strategically irrelevant. The societal problems caused by modernism simply cannot be solved by a modernist fighting postmodernism."

Blogger The Aardvark April 30, 2018 8:34 PM  



"It's so damned weird how red-pilled folks have latched on to Peterson. I just don't get it. I saw a 4-minute video of him once--that I think you linked to on this blog. But other than that, the crap he talks about is so basic to me, with a few exceptions."

Because "The enemy of my enemy is my friend.".
Please to note the quotation marks.


Blogger Neutrinoide April 30, 2018 8:41 PM  

Yes the guy has flaws. If you guys are a bunch of christian should understand that. Get over it. When one you you guys write a research book as half constructive for the humanity like Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief then maybe you throw the first stone. But no, you sci-fi nerds with fantasy dissociative disorder are just into shallow bloggers.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 8:47 PM  

Yes the guy has flaws. If you guys are a bunch of christian should understand that. Get over it. When one you you guys write a research book as half constructive for the humanity like Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief then maybe you throw the first stone. But no, you sci-fi nerds with fantasy dissociative disorder are just into shallow bloggers.

The guy is intellectually dishonest. Which means that his book will almost certainly prove to be misleading and destructive, and you are being misled.

OpenID benkurtzblog April 30, 2018 8:48 PM  

La Griffe du Lion put mean Ashkenazi IQ at around 111 or 112.

I've learned the hard way to respect the statistical conclusions of Griffe, who found estimates of approximately 107 to be a bit too low in his estimation -- and 117 to be a bit to high.

He shows his work, too.

Blogger VD April 30, 2018 8:59 PM  

La Griffe du Lion put mean Ashkenazi IQ at around 111 or 112.

If he is correct, then most Israeli Jews average 86.8.

Blogger Alphaeus April 30, 2018 9:01 PM  

" Yes the guy has flaws." It's not about flaws. VD has flaws. I have flaws. Trump has flaws. We forgive our friends for their flaws. We are questioning whether JPB is a friend or an enemy. If he's an enemy he is a very dangerous one because he pretends to be our friend. Such a "friend" can do a lot more harm to us than a thousand Hillary Clintons or Anita Sarkeesians.

Blogger SciVo April 30, 2018 9:14 PM  

Nate wrote:I wonder if what we're seeing is that in a world of insane liberal... there is an actual centrist.

It's possible he's not even as far right as center. He balked at being bullied into coddling the delusions of gender dysphorics, which in [current year] made him a heretic to the Social Justice cult; but that could just be a leftist afraid of losing his tenuous grasp on reality if the lies that he accedes to are too obvious, or who is maybe just disagreeable enough for crybullying to get his back up, or who is maybe just stuck at where the progressive curve was when his personality solidified. None of which would be enough by itself to make him a non-leftist.

Blogger tublecane May 01, 2018 12:29 AM  

@131- Or maybe he got tired of the ritual humiliation--as described by Theodore Dalrymple was it?--which is the secret object of totalitarian PC thought policing.

Blogger SciVo May 01, 2018 2:01 AM  

Yes, because "a society of emasculated liars is easy to control." So JBP could just be a centrist (or even leftist) with some personal dignity, which might not be a bad definition of "modern conservative."

Blogger LP999-16 May 01, 2018 6:35 AM  

127 agreed then add JP's feminism facebook comment.

Not good.

OpenID benkurtzblog May 01, 2018 6:52 AM  

"If he is correct, then most Israeli Jews average 86.8."

Perhaps.

Or it means that Israel suffered a selection effect, with more of the brighter Ashkenazim leaving their ancestral European homelands for places like America, Canada and Australia, while more of the less-bright Ashkenazi families chose Israel.

Or it means that Israeli Ashkenazi measurements are muddled due to several generations of breeding between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews in that country.

Either of the above would mean that 106 is a valid estimate of mean Israeli Ashkenazi IQ while not being representative of worldwide mean Ashkenazi IQ.

Or it could mean yet a half dozen other things.

You made the point yourself, VD: Be precise with what you are purporting to measure, and why. Is it mean worldwide Ashkenazi IQ? Mean Israeli Ashkenazi IQ? Mean American Ashkenzi IQ? Mean American Jewish IQ (a larger Ashkenazi population, somewhat assortatively mated with the white gentile population, combined with a smaller and somewhat less intermarried Sephardi population)? Mean Israeli Jewish IQ (adding in Ethiopian Jews, quarter-Jewish Soviet emigres, and other population groups)?

Blogger Peter Gent May 01, 2018 7:49 AM  

I will venture an opinion and it is that Peterson is a man who has used his obvious high intelligence, education, and academic work life to create for himself a model of the world he sees which reflects much of the reality of what God has created and the systems our Creator put into place to make it work.

However, since Peterson has not taken the final step of submitting himself to that God who created all he sees, he constantly falls into error and his model is incomplete with errors that need correcting. Being a person who stands outside the fullness of faith he lacks the means to correct those errors at the fundamental level required to arrive at the deeper truths that elude him, or as C. S. Lewis would say the deeper magic underneath the deep magic the world sees, or as Paul argues the mystery hidden from other generations that has been made known to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, and thereby to us who by faith submit ourselves to the Word made flesh.

I see these events playing out as moving Peterson to a crisis of faith, where he will be challenged to make a decision on where he really stands, where his true foundation lies. Up to now he has skirted the real challenges to what he thinks and believes, but the ground is shrinking around him and his time of sitting on the fence, viewing comfortably from above is coming to an end.

I pray that Christ apprehends him, giving him the deeper answers, the true foundation to the model he has built and the corrections that will fix its errors. With that I further pray that Peterson submits and gains the answers his soul seeks, despite anything that happens to him in the world he inhabits, despite what apprehending the Truth behind the truth does to him.

Blogger James Pyrich May 01, 2018 10:49 PM  

I had posted yesterday but sometimes blocking third party cookies by default gets in your way...

With the 2016 election, I was starting to shake off my nihilism and began to accept that perhaps traditional things weren't nearly quite so bad as the hell we seemed to be heading towards.

I did appreciate some of Peterson's thoughts about the Genesis stories, but I suspect there was a quicker path to what ended up sticking with me. Guess I had way more time than I thought, for what I got out of it.

I have a hard time reading 12 Rules beyond the parenting section. I still haven't finished it. That and the anti-depressants... come on, man.

It's one thing to be ignorant of something. It's quite another to be ignorant of something in your field. But it's entirely another thing to emit common-wisdom platitudes when there is ample evidence against that position.

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