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Sunday, April 29, 2018

Test-optionality

That's one way to avoid the merit-based IQ showdown that is looming at the elite universities. Get rid of the tests:
There are now well over 1,000 colleges and universities that don't require SAT or ACT scores in deciding whom to admit, a number that's growing every year. And a new study finds that scores on those tests are of little value in predicting students' performance in college, and raises the question: Should those tests be required at all?

Colleges that have gone "test optional" enroll — and graduate — a higher proportion of low-income and first generation-students, and more students from diverse backgrounds, the researchers found in the study, Defining Access: How Test-Optional Works.

"Our research clearly demonstrates that these students graduate often at a higher rate," said Steve Syverson, an assistant vice chancellor at the University of Washington Bothell, and co-author of the study.

"When a college considers going test-optional, one of the first reactions that people, including alumni, feel is that the college will be admitting less qualified students," he added. Syverson says the study should reassure admissions officials who've decided to go test-optional.

Syverson and his team of researchers studied 28 public and private institutions that no longer require test scores, and tracked about 956,000 individual student records.

Students like Ian Haimowitz, a sophomore at George Washington University, a test-optional school in Washington D.C.

He says in the beginning, he felt like a fish out of water.

"I know for a fact I'm the first Nicaraguan-American, the first Latino, the first Jewish Latino that a lot of kids meet," he says.

He adds that when he arrived at GW, he looked around and asked himself, "What am I doing here with kids who went to private schools and got the best education possible?"

It was a very different world than he grew up in back in New Mexico.

"I remember my freshman year of high school, I didn't have a math teacher. Maybe that's why you see in my test score that I didn't have a good grounding in math. But I believed my potential was still there."

Ian was a straight-A student in high school, but his SAT scores were so low he didn't think any top tier school would accept him. He says not having to submit his test scores opened the doors to a top selective school.
We can safely expect the Ivy League schools to try to get rid of objective testing as soon as possible, before it becomes obvious that there have been some very heavy thumbs on the admissions process at all of their institutions.

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93 Comments:

Blogger James Dixon April 29, 2018 6:58 PM  

> And a new study finds that scores on those tests are of little value in predicting students' performance in college

And yet strangely they were of great value for exactly that for decades. What could have changed do you suppose?

Blogger Eli April 29, 2018 7:09 PM  

"What could have changed do you suppose?" They want those students with "diverse" backgrounds who couldn't get in otherwise.

Blogger Crew April 29, 2018 7:12 PM  

I guess that means employers can no longer rely on colleges to weed out the fakers and will now have to come up with tests of their own that do not demonstrate disparate impact.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 7:18 PM  

"Oy veh! How will we get little Ian into an Ivy League college? His test scores are so low! No reputable college will even look at him! He'll have to go to a (shudder) State College. It's another Shoah!"
"Don't worry Miriam. I'll talk to some friends, tell them he's a Latino. They'll waive the standards for a Latino."

Blogger Franz Lyonheart April 29, 2018 7:20 PM  

Straight A you say? Well, because a B would have been obviously rayciss.

Blogger Franz Lyonheart April 29, 2018 7:24 PM  

Ian Haimowitz? You can't make this up. Every single fken time. Amazing.

Blogger Crew April 29, 2018 7:24 PM  

Hmmm:

1. "I know for a fact I'm the first Nicaraguan-American, the first Latino, the first Jewish Latino that a lot of kids meet," he says.

2. Ian was a straight-A student in high school, but his SAT scores were so low he didn't think any top tier school would accept him.

I think that proves Vox's claims about jews!

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2018 7:25 PM  

Ah yes, young Ian Haimowitz, scion of the celebrated Haimowitz's of Managua. They who first synthesized the guava smoothie through sheer force of Jewish-Nicaraguan will alone.

The titans of the Managua smoothie scene!

Blogger Matt April 29, 2018 7:30 PM  

How does a straight-A student have low SAT scores? ((Someone)) needs to give those SAT test makers a good talking to!

Blogger DraveckysHumerus April 29, 2018 7:30 PM  

I know for a fact I'm the first Nicaraguan-American, the first Latino, the first Jewish Latino. - Ian Haimowitz

Affirmation stems from the *fact* your ancestors connived productive land off the natives, you lead a lazy life, and now you self-advantage from the "latino" faux status because you achieved a poor SAT score. I actively work against your ilk in the workplace you slimey haimie. Within my lifetime it will be the piano wire for you, poseur.

Blogger Ian F. Shield April 29, 2018 7:37 PM  

I'm surprised there's no post here yet on the God Emperor's interesting (I guess that's the word) remarks concerning immigration at his rally in Michigan last night. Or maybe not so surprised.

Blogger Dexter April 29, 2018 7:37 PM  

Students like Ian Haimowitz, a sophomore at George Washington University, a test-optional school in Washington D.C.

He says in the beginning, he felt like a fish out of water.


If you decided to attend GWU, that is proof positive that Jews aren't so intelligent after all. It is vastly expensive, located in an expensive city, and has never broken into the "top 50" academically. What a ripoff!

It would be the "poor man's Georgetown" if you didn't have to be a rich man to go there.

Blogger Doug Cranmer April 29, 2018 7:42 PM  

We simply blacklist most of the second and tertiery tier schools here in Canada. And whitelist by graduate supervisors. Friend and colleagues talk to each other. There's understanding.

But still, the immigrant crap that are walking away with Ph.D.'s's is astounding. The whole system has become of another racket.

Blogger Dexter April 29, 2018 7:45 PM  

He says not having to submit his test scores opened the doors to a top selective school.

LOL at anyone calling GWU "a top selective school".

Blogger Daniel Bendele April 29, 2018 7:49 PM  

They already started doing this in the top law schools, Vox: http://fortune.com/2017/12/06/lsat-law-school-harvard-georgetown/

Key factor was adding more diversity to the schools...

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 29, 2018 7:52 PM  

Who new? The FIU bridge was actually a complete success.

Blogger weka April 29, 2018 7:54 PM  

Same thing in New Zealand.

And have seen,up close and personal, the complete uselessness of second and third level college diplomas.

Blogger Crew April 29, 2018 7:59 PM  

It looks like Amazon must now be employing lots of those Affirmative Action types like Ian, because the a number of reviewers of the latest Galaxy's Edge book are complaining of poor editing.

Seems they got a Beta copy (and it says so in the book itself) because Amazon does not have enough smart employees.

Blogger The Observer April 29, 2018 8:15 PM  

I guess that means employers can no longer rely on colleges to weed out the fakers and will now have to come up with tests of their own that do not demonstrate disparate impact.

This is impossible, as any test worth a damn will invariably press down on the usual suspect populations.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener April 29, 2018 8:17 PM  

When STEM courses are rigged it's painfully obvious but that doesn't stop it from happening. I had a few like that. One was because the TA who was effectively teaching the course cracked up and quit showing up for class for the last few weeks, and the professor who was actually assigned to it was too busy to show up himself. Both Indians (Ganges, not tipis).

So we all got A's. I think I had actually earned mine but it was close. That was a graduate level electrical engineering course, Random Signals and Noise.

Blogger pyrrhus April 29, 2018 8:19 PM  

After all, the real purpose of education is to enhance the status of stupid and even functionally illiterate people. Any other purpose would be racist....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 8:23 PM  

Shut up Rambam

Blogger pyrrhus April 29, 2018 8:24 PM  

The reality is that these test optional colleges will simply be demoted to the same status as "open admissions" colleges, which have proliferated by the hundreds anywhere student loans can be obtained by very poor students.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 29, 2018 8:25 PM  

Dexter wrote:If you decided to attend GWU, that is proof positive that Jews aren't so intelligent after all. It is vastly expensive, located in an expensive city, and has never broken into the "top 50" academically. What a ripoff!
He's a "Cisneros Scholar" and doesn't have to pay.
GWU is the school for people too dumb to go into business. It trains bureaucrats.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus April 29, 2018 8:26 PM  

17.weka
Here in the states, it's the first level that's nearly a useless qual aside from STEM/vocational. I earned a second, grad in comp sci, and a third, professional degree and grad law in IP same timeframe with all the fluff.

Under current US scheme, I couldn't pursue PhD or JD/LLM without procuring a first level degree. Emplaced primarily due to trade protectionism.

My ma and da divorced late in my high school career and no family ever assisted me in pursuit of education. A. Alfred Taubman and U.Michigan/N'western and my summer work as a jackhammer operator (lung cancer sure to follow) and dump truck driver and student job, VAX programmer for an institute paid the freight.

Throughout I watched certain (((kids))), many stupid, truly, squeak through. You cannot appreciate given my personal circumstances that I loathe (((them))).

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 29, 2018 8:26 PM  

The SAT (and GRE) used to correlate pretty closely to an IQ test. If it failed to predict college performance, perhaps college was the problem.

Blogger pyrrhus April 29, 2018 8:29 PM  

"How does a straight-A student have low SAT scores? ((Someone)) needs to give those SAT test makers a good talking to!"

They are everywhere, mainly graduates of big city public schools. The SAT has been gradually dumbed down, but not fast enough to catch up with the school population's rapidly declining levels of intelligence and preparation.

Blogger Lovekraft April 29, 2018 8:52 PM  

It's appearing that there is going to be a major fracturing within the next five years, where the lines between the wealthy getting all the candy (good jobs in cities) and the rest eking by on service wages will be entrenched.

Not necessarily a bad thing as public discourse may not be so 'foggy'.

Above both will be the bureaucrats, lawyerpoliticians, and marxist ideologues meddling and monitoring.

We're sort of at this stage right now, but I think the boomer die-off and millenial competition with H1B1s and immigrants (and automation) will bring things to a heated state.

Where does the alt-right stand?

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 29, 2018 9:05 PM  

@ 29. Lovekraft A

"Where does the alt-right stand?"

With Jack Ward

Blogger Leandro Novaes April 29, 2018 9:05 PM  

@29 It is simple. They have to go back.

@18 This is not the point. Vox has it right. He is a (((Latino))). Now that people are starting to ask question if there is any sort of bias on admission tests, and people like little (((Ian))) would never be able to get in without a helpful admission bias despite his extremely high IQ, then the best bet to avoid criticism is to do away with tests altogether, and admit him under the banner of diversity as a Latino.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 29, 2018 9:05 PM  

Not sure who "Lovekraft A" is.

Blogger Doug Cranmer April 29, 2018 9:14 PM  

Hate is a perfectly fine emotion.

Blogger A rebel without a General April 29, 2018 9:27 PM  

dang it will be like 15 years before my school drops GMAT

Blogger Nobody of Consequence April 29, 2018 9:54 PM  

Since the late 1950s, early 1960s grade inflation has taken at a minimum 2 grade levels. A student earning a B today would have earned a C at best 20-25 yrs ago and a D 50 yrs back. We do not teach and we do not test at the same levels today as in the past. That is fact. Roughly 8 yrs ago, Harvard and Yale went to P/F grading in their law schools. Why? Because even the elites are not qualified.

Blogger Cecil Henry April 29, 2018 10:12 PM  

'Test-optionality'.

Just one step away from truth- optionality.

Same agenda.

Blogger Jack Ward April 29, 2018 10:14 PM  

@ 30. Uncle John's Band
April 29, 2018 9:05 PM
@ 29. Lovekraft A

"Where does the alt-right stand?"

With Jack Ward

Not sure how it got this way. Probably a joke thing among the Ilk over something I commented over the last year or so. Can I go back and undo it? Bit embarrassing, all this reference to me and 'standing' If you guys want to stand with anyone make it Vox or Trump. They have earned it.

Blogger Ingot9455 April 29, 2018 10:36 PM  

@37 Sadly Mr. Ward, it is stuck with you always. And did you know that Riker turned down the offer to command another Starfleet ship?

Blogger Unknown April 29, 2018 11:13 PM  

@35

I can personally vouch for that. I tried college the first time in 1989-1990, and after two years lost interest and enlisted in the Navy. Now, 20 years later, I coasted through most of my GenEd stuff, especially the writing classes.

I saw some of my classmate papers in English 101. The authors were not tall enough for that ride, even in community college.

Blogger Aggie - April 29, 2018 11:38 PM  

"We can safely expect the Ivy League schools to try to get rid of objective testing as soon as possible, before it becomes obvious that there have been some very heavy thumbs on the admissions process at all of their institutions."

What do you mean, before it become obvious?

Now, we need to have a little talk about this surgery you've scheduled for tomorrow. I see that you have a preferred surgeon of choice. We've decided to provide an alternate surgeon of greater ability and talent, based upon a much more modern and fair-minded set of criteria. Sound Okay so far?

Blogger Timmy3 April 29, 2018 11:49 PM  

It’s increasingly obvious that either you admit for racist reasons or you hide it. Employers won’t be fooled or they participate with full knowledge.

Blogger LP999-16 April 29, 2018 11:52 PM  

Absolutely, end testing and notice 4/29's 60 minutes Gates' and how colleges are lowering their insane punitive fees along with this; weaponized genetic testing/DNA banks for the eventual creation of fake evidence to crush the innocent. Forget the uncomfortable IQ/genetic truths of various groups in exchange for manufactured evidence testing approved by God knows who.

Blogger weka April 30, 2018 12:09 AM  

In NZ you don't have general four year degrees and most degrees are now vocational. The biggest faculty where I work is health sciences -- and that is withoub nursing, which is at a Polytechnic where it belongs.

My kids are doing vocational degrees with people who have masters or PhDs but need a trade. Because bunless you have tenure, scholarship does not pay. (I have tenure).

Blogger weka April 30, 2018 12:10 AM  

Sorry for the typo

Blogger Dave April 30, 2018 12:14 AM  

Strangely enough, lefty college prof JBP is incredulous when NBC manipulates interview and paints him with Alt-Right brush:

@jordanbpeterson
The interview lasted 90 min(!) From that they edited the minuscule portions most suitable to the pre-constructed narrative. NBC has no doubt that it's audience is ignorantly susceptible to and worthy of manipulation.


https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/990790741558411265

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/who-is-jordan-peterson-favorite-figure-of-the-alt-right-1221615171523

Blogger LP999-16 April 30, 2018 12:17 AM  

The worst thing that ever happen for the world at large was missing ok computer live and some boomer cat lady that hated me upon sight, in 97 giving me a low grade in public speaking for denouncing multiculti, she told us to do a speech on it, I was dumb enough to take that bait.

Mom was mortified, dad was delighted he said my 5 minutes and dropping the mic was worth more than the stuff he did at West Lib WV.

I love, adore learning but wished for that which I will never have; be a wife and mom repeating breast feeding, homeschooling, etc., give mom and dad some grandkids to tote around, all gone.

Still today I have email and mail friends from the colleges I went to, I could never ever formally attend SES in Chlt NC but back then or still is a wonderful place, I dont know formally but it was a wonderful seminary where the bible, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, I mean endless things too great for me to grasp. Around 2000 or 2001 I bought a shirt and it eventually was ruined but I kept it until 2013, posted online, its the law of non contradiction. I often struggled with that at times in life.

My favorite course was statitiscs, no feelings, no distractions give me the problem to solve. Then law, this teacher is my friend today, his wife and my mom were best wonderful friends meaning she wasn't a wrench or feminist.

This teacher stated in a limited scope 4 laws; tort, criminal, constitutional and contract. Given its more than that but for kids its a limited scope.

It was the best time I ever had, he never liked the ($240 I wont part with!) book so we had to tape him then or quickly shorthand notes, his tests were all paragraphs, all written no multi and all from his notes. Wow.

To this day offline my cursive is half shorthand which I would accidentally write in for his tests and he knew what I was stating and I aced his class. Today, his wife and my mom are dead and he is a well regarded honorable judge with a legacy of no feelz, the law but tempered with mercy.

Blogger kurt9 April 30, 2018 12:24 AM  

I make several predictions: First, Vox is right that the Ivy League will get rid of their testing requirements (I don't know if Stanford will follow suit). The top technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Rice, etc.) that admit purely on merit will not. This means that graduates from the top technical schools will see their prospects go up over time. Those from the Ivy League will see their's go down. I believe we are already seeing this with the Ivy League as more and more of their graduates go into academia rather than private industry (this trend has been significant over the past 25 year or so).

Employers looking for graduates who really do know something, are capable of learning, and who offer the best benefits to the company will increasingly rely on engineering and other STEM degree graduates for non-STEM work (technical sales, management, etc.). Non-technical degrees will become as meaningful as high school diplomas in demonstrating value that employers look for. Companies that are converged will of course continue to hire such SJW nitwits. But real companies wanting to make a difference in the marketplace will not. In the long run (20-30 years) will see the demise of liberal arts and other non-technical university and university degrees.

It is true that SJW-types will try to push this crap into the engineering and other technical programs. The ones that resist it will see their reputations improve. Those that do not will see their reputations ultimately trashed.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir in here when I say that liberals have difficulty understanding unintentional consequences.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( your mom always did like me best ) April 30, 2018 12:33 AM  

((( Ian Haimowitz
...
"I know for a fact I'm the first Nicaraguan-American, the first Latino, the first Jewish Latino that a lot of kids meet," he says.
...
What am I doing here )))


the only Jewish Nicaraguan anyone has ever met and he just HAPPENS to get selected for admission to a college, without any testing whatsoever.

you. just. can't. make. this. shit. up.

nope, there's no preferential treatment for the fucking Jews. it's ALL MERIT, baby.

Blogger LP999-16 April 30, 2018 12:41 AM  

45 GE-NBCMSNBCComcast is stupid, JP is not alt right. American media should leave Canadians alone and focus on the southern border, wall check!

Blogger Jack Amok April 30, 2018 12:43 AM  

I guess that means employers can no longer rely on colleges to weed out the fakers and will now have to come up with tests of their own that do not demonstrate disparate impact.

Aaaaaand there goes the gravy train for colleges in the US. They only reason they had such a boom in attendance was it became the legal way for companies to discriminate against low-IQ, low-time-preference minorities. But now that universities no longer want to weed out the minorities, there's no point including "Bachelor's Degree or equivalent" on the job requirements.

Convergence strikes again.

Blogger LP999-16 April 30, 2018 12:44 AM  

47 Vox is right.

And really Bill Gates is funding the lowest IQ with big dreams, I wish I were wrong, I wish Americans were not suffering from a iq drop due to immigration and the meritless, spiritless being set up to fail or softly succeed in SJWLGBTQFeminit-dindu studies.

Blogger wreckage April 30, 2018 1:02 AM  

@37, notoriety is the best sort of fame. Embrace the darkness.

Blogger wreckage April 30, 2018 1:05 AM  

My opinion: it's better to have no tests than tests that screen only one demographic, while everyone else gets a free pass.
The problem will be stopping them from making entry tests illegal, followed then by making all standards for graduation illegal.

This is a wonderful way for the top tier universities to destroy themselves faster and more thoroughly. Strategically, the two possible goals for any converged institution should be to flip it or burn it down; I favour the latter.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 30, 2018 1:13 AM  

Jack Ward wrote:Bit embarrassing, all this reference to me and 'standing' If you guys want to stand with anyone make it Vox or Trump. They have earned it.
I stand with Jack Ward in this sentiment.

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2018 1:17 AM  

I suspect most schools will ditch the testing standards - after all, what good are they anyway when the professors can just assign passing grades to all the unqualified students they pick up just to make the numbers look good? Even though I don't belong to any privileged class, I still had a professor tell me to my face once that I would not obtain less than a B so long as I showed up, took all the tests, and handed in all the work. He was quite true to his word, I have a B in a course in which I warranted an F. Another time I received an A on an exam for doing the Dilbert principle of writing for 60 minutes and saying nothing. I received an A because, in the professor's words, I hadn't stated any falsehoods in the fluff I had written.

The modern degree in general is about as worthless as the paper it's printed on, the whole rotten facade of academia counts on this not becoming a widely known fact, though I suspect more and more hiring managers are getting wise to it. I have worked in the accounting field for a long time successfully despite not having any degree in the subject. Everything I have needed to know I have either self-taught by reading instructions/regulations or was trained by my company to do. Don't get me wrong, college had some useful classes back when I went in the early aughts when it wasn't a converged SJW cesspool in most of the departments I had experience with, but I almost never have any practical use for the classes in either of the two core majors I had.

Larger companies would be better served by hiring non-college educated people with good work ethic and having a trainer on staff to teach them what they need to know. What I needed to know to do any of my jobs entailed substantially less time than 1800 hours spent in the classroom with perhaps another 1800 hours needed in after-class work.

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2018 1:37 AM  

If you want to know how skewed the whole process is, get your head around the companies that sell, as a product, Ivy League and top tier university entrance admissions. There is a MENSA guy in New Zealand running the company called Crimson Consulting, who himself was a Harvard Grad Jamie Beaton. He finished his bachelors and masters 2 years ahead of schedule, so he is the real deal. I think on last check his company had over $100million in market capitalisation. So there's still a strong Ivy League brand. Still, it shows how stacked the deck is. Who can afford those services? Only the very very rich, all over the world. What do those services really comprise? Insider knowledge. Insider knowledge on what to say, do, and who to say and do those things to in order to get the golden ticket.

Blogger Bob Loblaw April 30, 2018 1:57 AM  

James Dixon wrote:> And a new study finds that scores on those tests are of little value in predicting students' performance in college

And yet strangely they were of great value for exactly that for decades. What could have changed do you suppose?


I would be surprised if they did predict performance in college - people go to universities in which their classmates had similar scores. A kid with a 1550 does poorly at MIT and another with a 1200 does well at Pudunck U... so what? The tests aren't supposed to predict how you'll do, and it doesn't advance the argument much to point out a screwdriver isn't very good at hammering in nails. That doesn't mean you should throw out your screwdrivers.

When I went to college we had a few dozen "affirmative action" students in our freshman engineering classes, and by the beginning of the second year they were all gone - transferred to easier majors or easier colleges. Or flunked out. It was nice for the rest of us, because they lowered the curve and we got better grades. I'm not sure that was the intent, though.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 30, 2018 2:44 AM  

Standards are rayciss!!

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2018 3:56 AM  

@3 "I guess that means employers can no longer rely on colleges to weed out the fakers and will now have to come up with tests of their own that do not demonstrate disparate impact."

They can't do that. It's illegal to hire a less-qualified applicant over a more-qualified one. The fix is in.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len April 30, 2018 4:48 AM  

"What do we need test scores for? All we really need to know is who brings in the most government guaranteed coin! Remember to shuffle 'em through the easiest courses, gotta protect the grad rates to keep the taxpayer cash a-flowin'!"

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2018 4:50 AM  

As I understand it, by law a company may not give an IQ test as part of the hiring process. I have read that many places but I can not prove that it true.

If the companies may not check for IQ then they have a crap shoot going. The entire educational edifice is set up to make unequal things look equal. They want a group with an average IQ to do as well with academic things as another group with an average IQ of 100. How is that ever going to work out unless massive fraud is involved?

Perhaps we should IQ test every individual an look at those numbers as we test for "racism" or "sexism" in admissions or hiring. Just a thought.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 6:07 AM  

> Employers won’t be fooled or they participate with full knowledge.

They participate with full knowledge. Because they're forced to by the courts.

> I would be surprised if they did predict performance in college...

They did. Why do you think colleges used them?

> As I understand it, by law a company may not give an IQ test as part of the hiring process.

Not quite. I don't think there's an actual law on the books saying so. But the EEOC has effectively ruled that any test that has a "disparate impact" is against the law. Guess what intelligence tests have?

Anonymous Anonymous April 30, 2018 6:52 AM  

@60


EDIT:

They want a group with an average IQ to do as well with academic things as another group with an average IQ of 100.

should read:

They want a group with an average IQ of 85 to do as well with academic things as another group with an average IQ of 100.

Blogger Stilicho April 30, 2018 7:02 AM  

Many/most of the self-styled "elite" schools got rid of class ranks years ago for law students. It was an obvious ploy to hide relatively poor performance by preferred sib-groups and help them get jobs over better qualified whites. You see, Harvard had a hard time selling its BS in the real world where those of us doing the hiring had learned to prefer candidates from the top 10 percent of State U over Harvard Grads who couldn't make it into the top half of their class. So Harvard hid the scale. Didn't help them that I could tell. No class rank on resume was simply assumed to mean poor little Barry couldn't compete. Go straight to reject pile, do not collect interview...

Blogger CM April 30, 2018 7:52 AM  

How does a straight-A student have low SAT scores? ((Someone)) needs to give those SAT test makers a good talking to!

A close friend of mine in high school had better grades than I did and got an 870 on his SAT. Last week of high school, I found out he'd been stealing my practice work and passing it off as his own.

I was so grateful to college for cutting that off.

Blogger DonReynolds April 30, 2018 8:02 AM  

Before I was born, colleges had entrance examinations and before the College Board developed a single exam, that could be reported to multiple institutions, there were good reasons why students did not shop twenty different colleges. Now we hear about students having a dozen or more acceptance letters. At my school, it was a big deal and there was an all-school assembly. The letters were apparently sent to the guidance counselor, who announced the winners of the great lotto. (My own acceptance letters were VMI, The Citadel, USMA, and USAF Academy Prep School, but I did not attend any of them.)

WE need to be very skeptical of any "study" that insists that objective and uniform testing is virtually worthless at predicting who would do well in a college. What I smell is a dead rat in the shape of a Leftist Liberal effort to remove one of the few obstacles to unprepared students (often minority and illegal alien) being admitted to higher education. WE have seen this kind of cynical horsecrap before, anytime the state legislature or the voters or the Supreme Court have insisted that college admissions not be dependent solely on race. The Leftist Liberal institutions continued to do exactly that but simply pretend it was "something else" on their application that moved them into acceptance territory. Everybody winks and lies like a snake...but it is much less obvious, when those pesky objective exams are not in the way.

Blogger Durandel April 30, 2018 8:30 AM  

Haimowitz? How does a kid who clearly has an IQ 115 score so low on his tests?

Blogger SDaly April 30, 2018 8:31 AM  

It may be true that tests now don't predict success, but that is because the standards for passing have also been jettisoned.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 30, 2018 8:55 AM  

This will set up more and more Dindu youths for failure. AA already does this. This will make it much worse.
And when Dindu youth start struggling with their coursework, they start getting "political," because they know that there are idiot professors who enjoy it.

The end result will be more and more protests and possibly even riots on campus.

Blogger Desdichado April 30, 2018 9:19 AM  

That has got to be one of the most ironically hapless article titles that I've ever seen.

Blogger Rabid Ratel April 30, 2018 9:26 AM  

Wynn Lloyd wrote:The end result will be more and more protests and possibly even riots on campus.

South African colleges and universities have a riot every time they have to write exam!. Expect to see that soon.

Blogger seeingsights April 30, 2018 9:37 AM  

My interpretation of Griggs vs Duke Power is that it did not outlaw the use of IQ tests by employers, but the practical effect of that decision is that employers refrain from IQ tests in order to avoid litigation.

That SCOTUS decision is economically illiterate. An employer has a self interest in pursuing methods which enhance the bottom line, and junking those which don't.
Also that decision has increased the problem of credentialism and student loan debt. A person without a college degree could get a good job if they scored high on an IQ test. Such a person then can learn on the job. Now, a prospective employee, in order to show his intelligence, has to show academic credentials and probably went into debt to pursue credentials.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 30, 2018 10:01 AM  

HR organizations ime routinely advise not using IQ tests as hiring aids. Whatever their reasons the employees I’ve worked with use “aptitude” tests that startlingly resemble IQ tests.

The last one I did as an applicant had; diagrammatic reasoning, verbal reasoning, etc

People are stupid, but as Scott Adams observes, not about the same things at the same time ...

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:07 AM  

Yes. They love to bend reality to make it more jewy.

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:10 AM  

Yes the bridge was lowered so those suffering from vertigo weren't discriminated against!

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:13 AM  

Seconded.

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:14 AM  

We are in the post-truth age so truth optionality fits right in.

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:15 AM  

Jack, let it go. We all stand with you.

Blogger English Tom April 30, 2018 10:21 AM  

I favour the latter. Yes. Then salt the ground a la Carthage.

Blogger S. Misanthrope April 30, 2018 10:22 AM  

MIT does not admit on merit. They have been heavily favoring females for many decades.

Blogger Dexter April 30, 2018 11:14 AM  

"MIT does not admit on merit. They have been heavily favoring females for many decades."

Same with Caltech and especially Harvey Mudd.

Blogger James Dixon April 30, 2018 11:49 AM  

> It may be true that tests now don't predict success, but that is because the standards for passing have also been jettisoned.

As I said, what could have changed? First they tried changing the tests. They found they couldn't change them enough to give the desired results, so they started giving more weight to "life experiences" or other such gobbledygook. Even that didn't give them the results they wanted, so now they're abandoning any pretense of objectiveness and doing away with the tests completely.

At the same time they've completely changed the curriculum to make it easy to pass those they want to pass and not pass those they don't, even going as far as to do away with grades all together.

The fact that this will, in the long term, be suicide doesn't seem to matter to them.

Blogger Iron Spartan April 30, 2018 12:43 PM  

The whole point of going to an Ivy league school isn't to get a top quality education, its to get a rolodex full rich and powerful connections. What you know will always come behind who knows you. If you are not inducted into a one of the secret society/frats then your only purpose at those institutions is to provide cover for those are.

Its nearly impossible to fail high school at this point. I have more respect for the modern drop out with a GED because that takes a lot more effort than a attaining a HS diploma.

The value of an arts degree is plummeting and is quickly approaching freefall. No standards, pass at all costs, all that matters is the percentage of completers. The idea that there could be backlash from pushing out graduates who have no skills, habits that make them a liability in the workplace, and crushing debt never enter into the minds of those in the ivory towers.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 30, 2018 1:28 PM  

@46

"The top technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Rice, etc.) that admit purely on merit will not."

Don't count on this.

The top technical schools are already participating in Affirmative Action games.

Blogger Iron Spartan April 30, 2018 2:18 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:@46

"The top technical schools (MIT, CalTech, Rice, etc.) that admit purely on merit will not."

Don't count on this.

The top technical schools are already participating in Affirmative Action games.


The Florida International University bridge collapse has scared many of them into rethinking that approach. An incompetent Literature major is unlikely to get people killed in such a way that it reflects on the university. Its the exact opposite for engineers.

Blogger justaguy April 30, 2018 2:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger justaguy April 30, 2018 2:35 PM  

Schools, both high school and college non-engineering and non-hard science stopped teaching a long time ago. Schools market how much fun the students have with lots of silly extras. When the education is BS, why does it matter how the kids got in? High School and college used to have difficult objective tests and actual graded essays that had to exhibit rational thought, orderly development and proper grammar and spelling. When actual measurement of learning or measurement of skill were stopped, so did actual education. Now schools just indoctrinate the heads full of mush.

The professors that tried to hold the line on actual achievement were sorted out through student evaluations. Get along to get tenure and the deal of have fun but leave me alone worked with non-engineering or non-hard science classes. Now we have 4 years of liberal arts as 4 years of playtime for the kids. Some schools are still keeping standard in physics, chemistry, engineering and such, but few students have the chops to take these.

SO why bring in kids on merit if it doesn't matter. The really smart will learn anyway and the rest will play and load up lots of debt.

BTW, if VD or others know of a way to keep up standard in liberal arts in today's schools with their be nice to students atmosphere, I'd love to hear it. Turn in a crappy paper about how whites are racists and get a B+ because you followed PC. Turn in a good paper on something not PC and get a D. Profs can always subvert the non-objective evaluations.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 30, 2018 5:25 PM  

@84

"
The Florida International University bridge collapse has scared many of them into rethinking that approach. An incompetent Literature major is unlikely to get people killed in such a way that it reflects on the university. Its the exact opposite for engineers."

As I've often said, even when scientists screw up, the worst thing that usually happens is that the authors of some paper feel embarrassed, and have to retract their paper.

When engineers screw up, people die.

[When doctors screw up, people die, too, but usually nobody knows the doctor screwed up].

Blogger Dirk Manly April 30, 2018 5:44 PM  

@86

"SO why bring in kids on merit if it doesn't matter. The really smart will learn anyway and the rest will play and load up lots of debt."

What does it matter?

1: The STEM majors have to spend years living immersed in the intellectual sewage that these people are. Classmates in general education classes. Fellow students in their housing facilities (dorms, fraternities, or student neighborhoods), sharing meal spaces (local restaurants, on-campus eating facilities) with these idiots, etc.

It destroys the entire experience of what a university education should be.


And then let's add on the Dean of Women. The Dean of Asian Transsexual Lesbians, and all the ways that these "* Studies" logrollers can ruin a serious student's life for telling a joke with even one unintended listener within earshot....or these days, within pickup range of some microphone or another.

So, yes, it really does matter, EVEN IF the university is getting a lot of money out of it, to let the campus be overrun by people who should be sweeping floors in an office building somewhere.

Because those $100k student loans are money already spent, Spent, SPENT by the faculty, staff, and administration of the various worthless and loony-tune departments which promulgate anti-Degrees.... which for each student who hangs around for 4 years, is a $100k drain on the economy (not to mention that so much of that 100k is then diverted into things such as Antifa, BAMN, and other socially destructive organizations).

I've mentioned my alma mater, Purdue, several times. Purdue is one of the few universities resisting the trend.
But even then, Purdue would be VASTLY improved by taking about 10% of the departments (the entire faculty and administration, and the buildings they work in) and blowing them up. Further improvements would be made by doing the same thing to about 50% of the various people who get paid to be the "Dean of insert-group-claiming-victimhood-status-here".

Either you're a Dean to the ENTIRE population of some school, or you're just a crony. Seriously, does the Dean of Black Students (African American? Negro? who knows anymore) seriously believe that a black kid with a 1400 SAT who needs financial assistance, is substantially different in any way that should matter to a university, than a white kid with a 1400 SAT who needs financial assistance?
If he does, then that Dean needs to be on the streets for simple being too stupid and racist to be allowed on any campus, let alone paid to have an office on one.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf April 30, 2018 6:34 PM  

RE: "Colleges that have gone "test optional" enroll — and graduate — a higher proportion of low-income and first generation-students, and more students from diverse backgrounds"

Obviously the standards at these universities are abysmal.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf April 30, 2018 6:38 PM  

I mentioned the Dean of Science who hadn't heard of Francis Bacon? Or the Australian of the Year who plagerized the research of an Austrian group (minor backpedaling and he was home free).

Blogger Dirk Manly May 01, 2018 8:41 PM  

Did this Dean of Science think that Francis was a pioneer in popularizing fatback pork?

Blogger Meng Greenleaf May 01, 2018 10:17 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:Did this Dean of Science think that Francis was a pioneer in popularizing fatback pork?
Possibly. His exact words were: "I've never heard of Francis Bacon". I just nodded in agreement and shrugged.

Blogger justaguy May 01, 2018 11:58 PM  

@88-- My comment was meant to explain why the schools don't care about using merit to enter, not why those of us who actually received an education would care. Your comments are good but don't matter to the school administrators who only want little indoctrinated idiots to sign over thier big loans to the school.

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