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Saturday, April 14, 2018

The symbolic strike option

It appears that my expectations were more or less correct. But now that the US has opted for the symbolic strike, what are the implications? The Saker discussed this very possibility three days ago, even as he worried about mutual escalation:
The truth is that Russia would never be a credible threat to the AngloZionist Hegemony if it was not for the innumerable self-inflicted disasters the Empire has been absorbing year after year after year. In reality, Russia is no threat to anybody at all. And even China would not be a threat to the Empire if the latter was not so arrogant, so over-stretched, so ignorant, reckless and incompetent in its actions.

Let me just give one simple, but stark, example: not only does the US not have anything remotely resembling a consistent foreign policy, it does not even have any ministry of foreign affairs. The Department of State does not deal with diplomacy simply because the US leaders don’t believe in diplomacy as a concept. All the DoS does is issue threats, sanctions, ultimatums, make demands, deliver score-cards (on human rights and the like, of all things!) and explain to the public why the US is almost constantly at war with somebody. That is not “diplomacy” and the likes of Nikki Haley are not diplomats. In fact, the US has no use for International Law either, hence the self-same Nikki Haley openly declaring at a UNSC meeting that the US is willing to ignore the decisions of the UNSC and act in complete violation of the UN Charter. Simply put: thugs have no need for any diplomacy. They don’t understand the concept.

Just like their Israeli masters and mentors, the Americans have convinced themselves that all they need to be successful on the international scene is to either threaten the use of force or actually use force. This works great (or so it seems) in Gaza or Grenada, but when dealing with China, Russia or Iran, this monomaniacal approach rapidly shows its limitations, especially when your force is really limited to shooting missiles from afar or murdering civilians (neither the US nor Israel nor, for that matter, the KSA has a credible “boots on the ground” capability, hence their reliance on proxies).

The Empire is failing, fast, and for all the talk about “Animal Assad” or “Rocket Man” being in need of AngloZionist punishment, the stakes are the survival of Hegemony imposed upon mankind at the end of WWII and, again, at the end of the Cold War, and the future of our planet. There cannot be one World Hegemon and a multipolar world order regulated by international law. It’s an either-or situation. And in that sense, this is all much bigger than Syria or even Russia.

There is still a chance that the AngloZionists will decide to strike Syria symbolically, as they did last year following the previous chemical false flag in Khan Sheikhoun (Trump has now probably tweeted himself into a corner which makes some kind of attack almost inevitable). Should that happen though, we should not celebrate too soon as this will just be a minor course change, the 21st-century anti-Russia Crusade will continue, most likely in the form of a Ukronazi attack on the Donbass.
While I think the Saker misses the point that Trump is not a creature of the Empire and is probably the primary target of its attempts to wield its influence, I suspect that he is correct that the neocons' anti-Russian campaign will continue, although I expect its focus to shift to Iran next, rather than Ukraine.

And this commenter has it right: In its essence, U.S. foreign policy boils down to someone’s attempt to establish Satan’s kingdom on earth as per Isaiah 14:13,14.

But not just U.S. foreign policy. As another commenter observed, Russia appears to be placing the blame for both recent false flags squarely on Britain. And Britain was also involved in the attacks, which may indicate that any Russian retaliation is going to be directed at British interests.

Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld has a more regional and historical take on the situation:
With so many interests, native and foreign, involved, a way out does not seem in sight. Nor can the outcome be foreseen any more than that of the Thirty Years’ War could be four years after the beginning of the conflict, i.e. 1622. In fact there is good reason to believe that the hostilities have just begun. Additional players such as Lebanon and Jordan may well be drawn in. That in turn will almost certainly bring in Israel as well. Some right-wing Israelis, including several ministers, actually dream of such a scenario. They hope that the fall of the Hashemite Dynasty and the disintegration of Jordan will provide them with an opportunity to repeat the events of 1948 by throwing the Palestinians out of the West Bank and into Jordan.

That, however, is Zukunftmusik, future music as the Germans say. As of the present, the greatest losers are going to be Syria and Iraq. Neither really exists any longer as organized entities, and neither seems to have a future as such an entity. The greatest winner is going to be Iran. Playing the role once reserved for Richelieu, the great 17th century French statesman, the Mullahs are watching the entire vast area from the Persian Gulf to Latakia on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean turn into a maelstrom of conflicting interests they can play with. Nor are they at all sorry to see Turks and Kurds kill each other to their hearts’ contents.
What is most interesting, to me, is that despite their very different perspectives, both the Saker and van Creveld recognize that the "liberal factions" in Syria were false fronts for ISIS.

UPDATE: Russia Insider called it correctly ahead of time.
The latest news is that now the Russian and American militaries are frantically talking, helped by Israelis (Netanyahu himself!), and the Turks (NATO members after all, but de facto Russian allies), trying to figure a way out of this Mexican standoff. Some experts are saying that it will go down like last time: the Americans will notify the Russians in advance of the targets, the Russians (and most Syrians whom the Russians will inform) will leave them, the strikes will be all for show, and the Russians and Syrians will get on with pulverizing Al Qaeda. The Syrians have already moved their planes to Russian bases, so, no, Syria will not lose its air force. Everyone saves face, and the world moves on.
Interesting, though not surprising, that Mad Dog Mattis is credited as being the voice of reason responsible for the "de-conflicting" on the US side. And I note that he does have blue eyes.

Labels:

96 Comments:

Blogger tublecane April 14, 2018 5:41 AM  

For what it's worth, the talking heads on Fox were hammering Iran and steering clear of Russia while I watched. Which admittedly was intermittently.

The idea was that Iran's alleged plot to gain mideast hegemony has brought together an unprecedented Grand Coalition of the Willing. And--get this--Israel and the Saudis are allies! Saudi Arabia admits Iran is a problem even though they're both Muslim!!! Dogs and cats are living together, etc.

Blogger tublecane April 14, 2018 5:43 AM  

OT: Have y'all seen the parody of A Higher Loyalty that has the Don refer to Reinhold Niebuhr as "Piehole Needledick?"

It may be the best thing I've ever read.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 14, 2018 5:49 AM  

Vox, regarding Trump declaring martial law, I wanted to know how likely you think it'd succeed considering how converged many of the Military's elites seem to be?

Blogger Ceerilan April 14, 2018 5:50 AM  

ISIS practices the principles of jihad as if other Muslim groups aren't real Muslims.

In terms of the sunni/Shiite cold war, I'm shocked that the US didn't take this into consideration in 2003 for the invasion of Iraq. At this point, stable kingdoms in Jordan and Saudi Arabia are the only thing standing in the way of Iranian domination of the middle East.

Blogger tublecane April 14, 2018 6:00 AM  

@Ceerilan- There's always the possibility that they did take it into consideration, and the Iraq War appearing to accomplish the exact opposite of its aim was a ruse.

But the answer is probably because they're stupid. I remember experts back when arguing Iran was at a tipping point. You know, young people. Democratic revolution any day now.

Arab Spring was supposed to be bigger, and it was supposed to magically turn all those countries into America.

That was the plan: blow stuff up, make soldiers social workers (, profit), and presto-chango, everybody's us.

Blogger LP999-16 April 14, 2018 6:22 AM  

Saker is doing his best, I favor or side with Martin van Creveld's observations. The comments and Vox's analysis are also notable and reasonable. The matter of "false fronts" comment are interesting as well.

Blogger Rick April 14, 2018 6:38 AM  

I like these missile strikes on Friday evening vs Thursday evening so the weak-intestined smart class has a couple days to regain their fortitude and not crash the market.
Incidentally, Alex Jones 2020.
I like his sober analysis of current events. He’d make a great Commander in Chief (eye roll x infinity)

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 6:52 AM  

"I like his sober analysis of current events. He’d make a great Commander in Chief (eye roll x infinity)"

Imagine the debates. 2017 could have been a very different year with Trump appearing as a regular on Infowars. Trump offered, Alex declined, according to Alex.

Blogger tz April 14, 2018 7:04 AM  

Russia is good at cyberwarfare, and is subtle. I'd expect all it would take would be a few "computer errors" to serve muslim patients at hospitals pork or, conversely, muslims calling for the death of the Queen or something to stir things up. And there may be many more Rotherhams and worse and I think Russian Intelligence knows. And you just need a few expats in the cybercafes. Cyberattacks are hard to trace.

Hopefully, it will stay at this petty level until Trump and Putin can meet like Reagan and Gorbachev.

Blogger Looking Glass April 14, 2018 7:35 AM  

As with the previous outbreak in April 2017, the "Chemical Weapons attack is fake but the Chemical Weapons are real" is the narrative they're going to avoid letting come to the surface. We'll know more of the targets in a few days, but I'd bet they were storage facilities that the Obama Administration said didn't exist because that'd mean they'd lied about the entire situation.

The real problem with what is going on in Syria is that it's half Kayfabe and half actual war. At this point, it's unclear who even kicked it off, but it seems like one of the Muslim Brotherhood factions. (The pipepline proposals came after the shooting started, likely as a post hoc appeal for support.) Syria is already an Iranian proxy, so it would make no sense for Iran to mess up their own proxy. Yet, once the shooting starts, who started things doesn't matter too much and the whirlwind pulls in a lot of interests.

Given last time, I expect Trump will make some new sandtraps and call it good. He favors public bluster and private precision. The "Trump Doctrine" is about eliminating weapons platforms, which cripples certain capabilities. I expect that'll be the targets again.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 7:36 AM  

I sincerely hope that Trump isn't doing this for optics vis-a-vis the Russia investigation. There is great good we could do together with Russia if it weren't for the ongoing rhetoric.

The problem is that Trump isn't really a change agent anymore. He has let himself be boxed in, and the establishment knows how to deal with him now. And they do.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 14, 2018 7:36 AM  

The British deep state seems to be the primary troubleshooter for the globalists. The dossier, the questions surrounding the gas attack, the recent spy killing, etc.
What is the reason for this? Is it that the British deep state has a firmer grip over its own people? Or is it the presence of all that Cold War espionage infrastructure with no use otherwise? Or a combination?
That's very odd how it seems to be British intelligence at the scene of the crime nearly every time. Maybe it gives U.S. intelligence plausible deniability.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 14, 2018 7:40 AM  

I have no idea what is going on in Syria. There is so much chaff and misinformation, and multiple players all with different agendas, even within the loose alliances. But what I do know is that cherry-picked, binary "relationships" are really tiresome. Objectively, Bolton's appointment has not signaled war with Russia. A tweet and some statements ≠ set policy. Reality is nuanced.

It appears 'Trump's a secret neocon' is turning into a Godwin's Law for the amygdalarly-challenged right.

Blogger James Dixon April 14, 2018 7:40 AM  

> Interesting, though not surprising, that Mad Dog Mattis is credited as being the voice of reason responsible for the "de-conflicting" on the US side.

Not surprising at all. I admiration for Mattis is growing daily.

I should note that it was strange to see Vox channeling his inner Aaron Rodgers on the previous thread. The only thing missing was his spelling it out.

Blogger James Dixon April 14, 2018 7:44 AM  

> I sincerely hope that Trump isn't doing this for optics vis-a-vis the Russia investigation.

His military advisers are better than that.

> He has let himself be boxed in, and the establishment knows how to deal with him now.

I'm sure they think that's the case. I wouldn't count on it.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 14, 2018 7:47 AM  

@ 14. James Dixon

Mattis was such an inspired choice. People seem to forget he is there.

It is interesting how the most strategically significant guys in Trump's circle - Mattis, Ross, Mnuchin - fly relatively below the radar.

Blogger Shitavious Lordecai April 14, 2018 7:47 AM  

If people here haven’t seen it, Neon Revolt does a great job with Q posts and his post about the strike basically confirms what Vox is saying. https://www.neonrevolt.com/2018/04/14/sparrow-red-and-syria-qanon-greatawakening/

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 14, 2018 7:48 AM  

Agree on the British Deep State. Their involvement keeps coming clearer. Having to deal with them demands even more nuance.

Blogger Looking Glass April 14, 2018 7:50 AM  

Uncle John's Band wrote:Agree on the British Deep State. Their involvement keeps coming clearer. Having to deal with them demands even more nuance.

It looks a lot like the British need a bit of... Freedom. :)

Blogger Lovekraft April 14, 2018 7:57 AM  

When the inevitable (yes, inevitable) dirty bomb hits a major world capital (my money's on Moscow) that is designed, in my humble opinion to entrench the muslim caliphate in Western lands, watch for how this plays out. Of course, such an act will be denied and claims of it being a false flag/setup to blame Islam will come out, but I think the event will be based on jihad.

Who is going to be 'left holding the bag?' of blame so that retaliation for this terror attack is directed with the goal of significantly reducing caliphate size and reestablishing Christianity as the principle religion in the west?

Israel/Saudi Arabia, like Britain, appears to me to be powers based on 1. rotten organic matter sold under extreme conditions, 2. entertainment (mind control) and 3. debt/money manipulation. They don't really have substantial natural resources.

Will the world ever really get out from under their control?

Blogger Johnny April 14, 2018 8:04 AM  

As for the British, the home country was the banking center for the empire. The empire is gone but the banking center remains. And because the country is not as big as the Untied States, relatively speaking the banking center in Britain is more important.

What may be driving British policy is "oil money" in the banks and bought off politicians. In the proxy war between Saudi Arabia with our help, and Iran with Russian help, perhaps the Brits feel locked in on the side of Saudi Arabia. The Saudis want Iran to lose their client state Syria, and that this war is about.

The other interest is the anti Russian one. The Russians stand to lose their Mediterranean port, plus some reduction to there being the monopoly supplier of energy to Europe.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 8:06 AM  

Its infuriating because I also think that this is being done for no reason other than the optics. Trump has been forced into action again just to placate politicians on Israels payroll and (((neocons))) constantly looking to extend an ongoing conflict at any cost. The world over support for these strikes was low because people are finally seeing through all the coordinated bullshit and deceit, yet despite that a few morons still agitated for this and put Trump between a rock and a hard place.

Think of his options. He either bombs Assad now, or he is met with weeks of negative press and their s**tlib attack dogs bashing him for being a Russian puppet who is so evil that he supports a tyrant gassing kids. He needs the media spotlight on the farcical investigation, not this crap.

Im of the view now that Trump was public about his desire to pull out of Syria because he had hit a brick wall with these lunatics behind the scenes and he needed to make it clear to the public that he had no desire to continue this fight. He must have known that it was a matter of time before he was pulled into some sort of action in Syria again. If anything the way they thwarted Trumps very public desire to pull out and the way media ran with his backtracking in an effort to anger his base makes me wonder if it was not just Trump bait of some sort. This whole Syria thing has gone beyond absurd at this point, but at least its been made to look that way given Trumps initial statements.

Blogger Looking Glass April 14, 2018 8:06 AM  

@16 Uncle John's Band

Trump called them "Killers" and he wasn't joking about that.

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 8:07 AM  

The last article linked was prescient:

"But this will come at a high political cost for Trump at home, for his base will be furious at yet another betrayal. Every day that passes is another day of Tucker Carlson pointing out the insanity and extreme dishonesty of an American attack, and the American media screaming for one.

I wrote about that this morning - for those readers not watching American TV it is the most stupendous show of pathetic lying ever witnessed. But also, there is a the massively influential alternative media, on the left and the right, big guns like Alex Jones and Zerohedge, and hundreds of medium guns like Russia Insider, and social media, and Americans are tuning in and listening to what we are saying.

A few more days of this pitched battle, and the political damage will be grievous, and Trump knows it - so the pressure is on."

Trump should have just called BS. End of story. He won because of his base, his base would have and could have backed him. People will lose focus on the finer details and remember the betrayals, real or perceived.

Blogger Harris April 14, 2018 8:08 AM  

The Strike on Syria is not just about Syria. It is a message to North Korea, also. The image portrayed is one of a very belligerent President Trump being constrained by his Secretary of War. The intent is to send a message to Kim Jong Un, and to his Russian and Chinese enablers that Trump is prepared to go to the mat, so you're better off striking a deal than provoking him further.

And giving Russia the warning also mitigates a larger scale war at the same time. Trump is a master of mixed signals to keep his adversaries off balance.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 14, 2018 8:15 AM  

@ 23. Looking Glass

He really wasn't. Once it started to become apparent that Tillerson wasn't a great long-term fit, those are the three I watch most closely.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 14, 2018 8:16 AM  

So it is at least partially the Rothschilds, who are so often the subjects of rants on comment boards?
"A Satanic, global cabal, headed by the Rothschilds."
That would be the setup for a joke about tinfoil hats in 1997, yet it is a serious possibility today, if not a fact. There are freaking photos. It's mind-blowing.

Blogger Jamie-R April 14, 2018 8:24 AM  

Would be nice to think of it as all communicated & friendly, but the timeline suggests it's not that way.
Tracking events not hard:
- March 29: Trump: USA Leaving Syria 'Very Soon, Let Other People Take Care of It'
- April 4: The Khan Shaykhun, Syria, chemical attack took place in area controlled by Al-Nusra Front, also described as al-Qaeda in Syria
- April 6: Netanyahu Had 'Tense' Call With Trump Over U.S. Plan to Leave Syria
- April 8: In Paris, Saudi Crown Prince focused on “investments in the future”
- April 9: FBI raids offices of Trump's longtime personal lawyer & take private attorney-client comms between them
- April 10: Grayling is the 1st British cabinet minister to visit Saudi Arabia since the launch this year of the UK-Saudi Arabia Strategic Partnership Council
- April 12: France and UK prepare Syria response

Blogger Rick April 14, 2018 8:29 AM  

Notice this handy-work. GE just tweeted:

“A perfectly executed strike last night. Thank you to France and the United Kingdom for their wisdom and the power of their fine Military. Could not have had a better result...”

He just blamed them, but made it sound like a compliment.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 8:30 AM  

It doesn't matter if it's a "symbolic" strike or a "real" one. The fact is, Trump was persuaded by CIA and MI6 fabrications, and they are figuring out how to manipulate him into doing their bidding.

Trump ought to drop all of this and announce a grand peace conference with Russia to discuss how Russia and America can work together to eradicate ISIS and restore peace and stability to the region.

That would make some heads explode at Langley.

Blogger Jamie-R April 14, 2018 8:32 AM  

Now Q said that they float false information to get folks to make counter-moves.

Apr 8 2018
Why did POTUS announce his intention to pull out of Syria?
Moves and countermoves.
These people are STUPID (& SICK).

Apr 6 2018
We don’t inform our enemies of the specifics.
We instead instill fear in them to make unplanned and disastrous countermoves.
Q

Blogger Rick April 14, 2018 8:33 AM  

Reminds me of his other technique, paraphrasing...

“Hey have you heard? People are saying Jeb is low-energy. Funny! But I would never say that...”

Blogger Jamie-R April 14, 2018 8:35 AM  

I can understand it's a bit like whitelisting, they're watching who does what, compiling list of disloyal fucks to the USA. Not hard to see who it is after the last 2 weeks. Can't trust Britain anymore. Their government is on the nose even with its own people.

Blogger James Dixon April 14, 2018 8:37 AM  

> The fact is, Trump was persuaded by CIA and MI6 fabrications, and they are figuring out how to manipulate him into doing their bidding.

It doesn't matter who fabricated what. Assad had chemical weapons. Therefore any use of chemical weapons is going to be laid at his feet. The US has said several times that we will retaliate if chemical weapons are used.

If they want us to stay out of it, Assad and Russia have to make sure chemical weapons aren't used, by either them or their opponents. It's that simple.

Trump is doing the absolute minimum to show that the US is keeping it's word while not escalating matters.

Blogger Salt April 14, 2018 8:38 AM  

"Donald J. Trump

Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
16m16 minutes ago

A perfectly executed strike last night. Thank you to France and the United Kingdom for their wisdom and the power of their fine Military. Could not have had a better result. Mission Accomplished!"

Blogger Ingot9455 April 14, 2018 8:39 AM  

Indeed, the planet is swiftly tilting.

Blogger Peaceful Poster April 14, 2018 8:47 AM  

Partially OT but Muslim related. North America now has it's own St. Breivik.

St. Bissonette, please pray for us!

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/canada-mosque-shooter-says-he-was-motivated-by-trudeau-welcoming-refugees/ar-AAvRBNn?ocid=st

Blogger Jamie-R April 14, 2018 8:53 AM  

After Trump announced a fake policy of pulling out of Syria, all the communications by foreign planners would have been recorded by the US military. That's where the fun begins I guess. Then you can start planning who is a problem for the Republic's entangling alliances by hierarchy.

Blogger Uncle John's Band April 14, 2018 9:02 AM  

@ 27. Wynn Lloyd

The Rothchild's peerage always seemed sufficiently damning to me.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 9:09 AM  

The US has said several times that we will retaliate if chemical weapons are used.

Well that's a gay policy if it doesn't allow for moderation in cases of fabricated "attacks" or attacks committed by rebels.

The US can't blame Assad for not having control of his country when we are bombing it and funding the terrorists who are wrecking the place.

There is no way to spin this as not being a fuck up.

Blogger The Chortling April 14, 2018 9:11 AM  

Peter Hitchens points out the British press' duplicity or buffoonery...or a little of both...

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2018/04/the-claim-that-russia-has-vetoed-calls-for-an-inquiry-into-alleged-gas-attacks-at-the-un-.html

Blogger Dire Badger April 14, 2018 9:14 AM  

Markku, Nate, Frank Brady... It's really about time you got on the Train. You have consistently missed it, complaining that it just doesn't feel right, but it's swung around again and is waiting for you.

Blogger Dire Badger April 14, 2018 9:15 AM  

It's okay, there are cookies and Irish beer and serving girls with big, lush tits on the Train.

Blogger jla April 14, 2018 9:24 AM  

James Dixon wrote:> The fact is, Trump was persuaded by CIA and MI6 fabrications, and they are figuring out how to manipulate him into doing their bidding.

It doesn't matter who fabricated what. Assad had chemical weapons. Therefore any use of chemical weapons is going to be laid at his feet. The US has said several times that we will retaliate if chemical weapons are used.

If they want us to stay out of it, Assad and Russia have to make sure chemical weapons aren't used, by either them or their opponents. It's that simple.

Trump is doing the absolute minimum to show that the US is keeping it's word while not escalating matters.


According to Russia there wasn't any chemical attack at all and the whole thing was staged. They claimed to have proof the UK was behind it and my bet is an intercepted communication of some sort.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 14, 2018 9:29 AM  

The Russians might want to think about this for a second before they scold us as zionist dupe attack dogs of little mental capacity.

America's public politics is dominated by the SJW mindset and that mindset came about from the Soviet virus.

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 9:52 AM  

"America's public politics is dominated by the SJW mindset and that mindset came about from the Soviet virus."

A virus implanted by New York Bankers. The circle never ends.

Blogger Johnny April 14, 2018 9:53 AM  

Unless something magical pops up I don't think we will ever know who did he chemical attack. Like the novel and movie, Murder on the Orient Express, too many suspects. And to quote Rhett Butler, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

Blogger Bobiojimbo April 14, 2018 9:54 AM  

You and BPS may be right about a grand Kabuki theater. Trump did express interest in getting along with the Russians. He may have found out that doing so publicly was impossible, so he opted for charades. If the Russians and the US become allies, that would put significant pressure on Iran, I would think, as well as China and NK. It would also help both throw off the shackles of globalism.

Ultimately, IDK, but I can see some good coming from this.

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 9:55 AM  

Or who tried to sink the Liberty...Oh wait, we do know that one.

Blogger David Power April 14, 2018 10:01 AM  

So what is the Hebrew for... 'Oh Well, Back to the Drawing board'?

Blogger Johnny April 14, 2018 10:36 AM  

"If Russian's and the US became Allies..."

What would happen is that Iran would get to keep Syria as a client state with greater certainty than now.

Too bad we ever got tangled up in this screwed up region of the world.

Blogger Arthur Isaac April 14, 2018 10:49 AM  

You have consistently missed it, complaining that it just doesn't feel right, but it's swung around again and is waiting for you.

Maybe boarding at the same time as John McCain has something to do with that?

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 10:52 AM  

Whatever happened to the moral level of war? This is why what Trump did was a mistake and stupid.

Blogger Crush Limbraw April 14, 2018 10:52 AM  

So - DaGE is not part of DaEmpire, but he plays one on TV - a good chunk of his base is getting pissed and not as patient as VD.
At some point DaStealthSwampDrainer will have to reveal himself for what he really is - and then what?
Sometimes I have been so freaking smart that I outsmarted myself - of course, it can't happen to DaGE - can it?
And you wonder why I drink!

Blogger Rocklea Marina April 14, 2018 11:09 AM  

Swiss lab confirms toxin not Russian
https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/

Blogger Hammerli280 April 14, 2018 11:34 AM  

Hmph.

Russia is still a problem. Partly because they maintain a large nuclear arsenal, partly because they are historically aggressive...and yes, partly because our European "allies" are so pathetically weak.

China I regard as a bigger headache. They are painfully reminiscent of Wilhelmine Germany - a rising Great Power with a bit of an inferiority complex. Looking for tokens of respect. My big fear is a war arising from botched Chinese foreign policy.

Or American. Because our State Department has too many people at the top level who are more interested in shilling for a future employer than for serving the United States.

Blogger ace April 14, 2018 11:40 AM  

This is how I expected events to play out, which is one of the reasons I felt safe in being glib yesterday suggesting that Russians should retaliate and sink 'em all. I didn't view it as a real possibility. Now GE gets to take up the mantle of the crazy one, which seems to be what he wants in the foreign policy space.

Blogger wreckage April 14, 2018 11:59 AM  

Trump is always setting up his (the USA's) next negotiation.

You might not like it, but a fast, vicious response to WMD deployment is necessary- not to the current game, but to the next one. He is setting up predictable behaviour patterns with that.

Now, if he steadfastly refuses regime change and conquest, he will be deconstructing predicted behaviour patterns; and the question will be, who is awake enough to actually pay attention?

YES these are mixed signals if you look at them as a single signal-behaviour-learning event, but they are not. There are several distinct events and if you conflate them you will fail to learn.

Blogger wreckage April 14, 2018 12:01 PM  

@57, absolutely, because it is better to be feared than loved.

Who here hasn't read The Prince? It's short. It won't take you long at all.

Blogger tuberman April 14, 2018 12:13 PM  

37. Peaceful Poster

Does not work that way. He needed to shoot elites, not pawns, that's far more effective.

Blogger Hunsdon April 14, 2018 12:22 PM  

I of course hesitate to correct our esteemed host and DLE, but I might point out that "Mad Dog" is not a nickname that Mattis likes. "Chaos Six" was his call sign when he was pointing Marines in the direction of the enemy, from a nickname given when he was a young colonel. The S3 shop tagged him with it, as an acronym for "Colonel Has An Outstanding Suggestion" (said at least partially tongue in cheek).

I'm not thrilled by the current course of events vis a vis Russia/Syria either, but jumpin' jiminy cricket, folks, have you not learned by now to close your soup coolers for a couple of days before you freak out?

How many times has it been, "Oh crap, this is it"? How many times "Trump has caved"? How many times "He's sold us out"?

How many times has the Next Big Deal turned out to be a nothingburger?

It's bad enough putting up with that over at Sailer's place. Here? Let's just say it's a good thing the DLE doesn't have his commissars out checking for morale, or a bunch of you guys would be lying in a ditch with your nine grams.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 12:34 PM  

You might not like it, but a fast, vicious response to WMD deployment is necessary- not to the current game, but to the next one.

ALLEGED deployment. He is setting the stage for shooting off a hundred missiles half-cocked whenever some CIA-funded terrorist group claims to be oppressed. As I have said, the Deep State has pushed him into a corner where he will predictably do their bidding when the right circumstances are created.

How many times has it been, "Oh crap, this is it"? How many times "Trump has caved"? How many times "He's sold us out"?

As Vox has said many times, Trump is not naturally predisposed to do everything we would like him to do. But he does usually listen to his base, so when he is floating ideas we don't like, we have to react sharply and loudly.

Holding Trump to his words during the campaign is not "freaking out."

Maybe all this "God Emperor" rhetoric, as fun a meme as it is, has lulled some into a false sense of security that Trump will never make a mistake. If he makes a mistake he needs to hear about it.

Blogger SmokeyJoe April 14, 2018 12:43 PM  

33 Jamie-R "they're watching who does what, compiling list of disloyal fucks.."
I agree. It's part of the Swamp Draining.

45 Mr. MantraMan "America's public politics is dominated by the SJW mindset and that mindset came about from the Soviet virus."
THANK YOU! And that toxin will hopefully be checked we all help to drain the swamp.

53 Rocklea Marina "Whatever happened to the moral level of war? This is why what Trump did was a mistake and stupid."
I rather think it's more like slapping the Swamp Heads in the face with their own play book

Blogger Lukas Brunnor April 14, 2018 1:03 PM  

Everyone saves face, and the world moves on.

So who is the show for? All this trouble and money spent and who benefits and who is still deceived by any of it?

Blogger Wyndie April 14, 2018 1:09 PM  

I suspect that the (((City of London))) influence is strongest in Albion.

Blogger ace April 14, 2018 2:12 PM  

Lukas Brunnor wrote:Everyone saves face, and the world moves on.

So who is the show for? All this trouble and money spent and who benefits and who is still deceived by any of it?


Prima facie, Raytheon to the tune of 200 million dollars. The Don's position as absolute madman is strengthened. Russia Collusion narrative further weakened. Russia made to look weak. Comey book news cycle is DOA. The only real cost is a softening of support among GE's antiwar base, but the same thing happened last year and he navigated those waters. On the face of it he seems to have risked big, won on multiple fronts, and came out ahead with little cost. Isn't that who we voted for? Even if we have to bite our nails sometimes.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 3:27 PM  

the biggest loser was Cernovich. Calling Trump "Donald Bush" and now hoping he gets impeached is f**king ridiculous and should prove, for any doubters (not here obviously), that Mike was always a mediocre intelligence at best.

Blogger tublecane April 14, 2018 3:36 PM  

@45-You honestly think Russia infected us and not the other way around? Based on what?

This country has a long, long homegrown tradition of proto-SJW-ism. Foreign commies may have infiltrated us, but they had buddies here waiting for them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 14, 2018 3:46 PM  

It was 19th Century German Atheism, in the person of Midwestern Republicans, that infected this country. Read the speeches of Robert Ingersoll some time. Though they were inspired by the French Revolutionaries, most were ethnically, and frequently natively German, after the Napoleonic wars and the unification of Germany made their pathetic lives too uncomfortable in Central Europe.

Blogger tublecane April 14, 2018 4:36 PM  

@69-There is a book called, I think, Red Republicans and Lincoln's Marxists (or maybe those are two books), about how the influx of commies into the U.S. after the failed revolution of 1848 influenced the early Republican Party.

Don't know how accurate it was, but it would appear to support your point.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 5:05 PM  

@66.

Prima facie, Raytheon to the tune of 200 million dollars. The Don's position as absolute madman is strengthened. Russia Collusion narrative further weakened. Russia made to look weak. Comey book news cycle is DOA. The only real cost is a softening of support among GE's antiwar base, but the same thing happened last year and he navigated those waters. On the face of it he seems to have risked big, won on multiple fronts, and came out ahead with little cost. Isn't that who we voted for? Even if we have to bite our nails sometimes.

I'm glad Saker turned out to be right on this one. That said, it's not as simple this time around as last year. I'll give you Raytheon, madman rep and Comey. You're ignoring several factors though, mostly in terms of the cost. This latest play, taken by itself, would have little longterm effect it's true. That said, you cannot take it in isolation.

The Russia! narrative of (((fake news))) seems immortal. It's like the liquid-metal assassin in Terminator III - repeatedly blown to bits with hard facts only to reconstitute and attack again and again. To kill this (and other similar Golem stories repeated a trillion times), the lügenpresse has to be wiped out entirely.

Trump's base is already angry thanks to Porkulus, which basically gives Chuck U., SJWs and the deep-state clowns in congress everything they wanted to the tune of 1.3 trillion - including gun control, whose directives are being written by various Obama, Clinton, Bush and other criminals operating in the BATFE, left in their positions instead of being cleaned out on day one. The plan is to essentially ban semi-autos altogether. Not even Obama managed to accomplish this. Trump also just appointed a gun-grabber to the 9th circuit. No wall, more border crossings, talk of signing TPP (breaking another campaign promise), open defiance by SJW states unpunished, no arrests of obvious criminals. The base is already pissed off. Cuck Ryan walks and leaves Trump holding a bag of the worst-smelling swamp-dregs to surface in a while. The last thing he needed to do was add in another possible war for Israel.

The result is that we could very well be headed for a blue wave in the fall, followed by impeachment, with full GOP collusion. Primary season is already here. The SJWs, cabal, et al got away with massive vote fraud in AL and elsewhere and laugh about it, along with criminals from the FBI - a couple of whom got minor pension reductions, while others retain their security clearances. All manner of slime-covered swamp-dwellers: Horowitz, Wray, Rosenstein and Mueller just to name four big ones - are tasked to drain the swamp, which appears to be steamier and more fetid than ever.

Granted Trump has flipped stacked tables numerous times before, so it's simply impossible to rule out something planned to alter the situation as November is still half a year away. As for the Q haiku, who knows what's true and what isn't anymore? Epstein's island supposedly burned, but Epstein himself is free - in Miami for another pedo trial likely rigged in his favor. Countless other examples could be cited. Trump has been unusually adept at flipping things against seemingly impossible odds so we could end up wanting him as president of life. He does not have a great deal of time to accomplish this however.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 6:31 PM  

Markku

You are an absolute liar, Dire Badger. It is only very, very recently that I have expressed doubts on Trump. If you continue this, I'm going to start deleting your messages.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 6:47 PM  

(For Vox: This isn't the first time he's lied about me. Matthew knows, so he should be available for second opinion.)

Blogger Dire Badger April 14, 2018 7:07 PM  

Arthur Isaac wrote:You have consistently missed it, complaining that it just doesn't feel right, but it's swung around again and is waiting for you.

Maybe boarding at the same time as John McCain has something to do with that?


I wouldn't know... I have been on the train since the moment he announced his candidacy and I read his platform and then carefully examined his business history.

He was the only candidate that did NOT want a war with Russia, had an actual Tax Plan for encouraging small business owners (Yes, the tax plan didn't work out, but there was no way the original tax plan could survive contact with the traitors in the republican party) and seemed to consider MS13 a serious threat.

Every single thing he has done since then, as long as I was careful to give each announcement 3 days in order to get the truth, has simply strengthened my support.

Trump is, by far, the greatest president the United States has ever had. He has been blocked at every turn by lying media, dumbshits that quote him out-of context to grind their own axes, and both republican and democrat senators and congressmen traitors who are desperately fighting to protect their golden goose, us middle class people, that they have been using to featherbed for the last hundred years.

Even Vox might remember how confidently I was proclaiming the inevitability of his presidency, and every time the media tried to invent some juicy character flaw or some purple-haired Orca tried to strip away his voter base, I knew that the Trump Train had just gained another carful of people.

Look at his history, his REAL history. Stop reacting the moment you hear a rumor and wait three days for the truth to come out... You too are welcome aboard as long as you stop screaming and upsetting the other passengers.

Hell, just listening to the FULL access Hollywood recording, rather than the excerpts, will shake your worldview and make you realize that every negative story, every upset Orca, every bowtie-twirling nevertrumper, has been LYING to you right from the very beginning.

In short, the man has been staggeringly Honest (especially compared to other politicians) Has worked his butt off for US, and has accomplished at the very LEAST far more than Reagan did... without getting sucked into crap like Reagan's immigration amnesty.

Am I a 'Trump cultist'? if that means supporting the first honest, straight-talking, square-dealing politician I have ever SEEN, then you are damned skippy I am. He does not have the same politics I do, (he doesn't support publically executing abortionists or people who knowingly pass on HIV, for example) He doesn't share my religion (Jews are the enemy of Christians, and always have been)... he is not right-wing enough for me.. but the perfect dissident right candidate would NEVER have gotten elected in the currently insane country.

The man is a wonder. When I support his actions, I support them wholeheartedly. When I don't understand them, I wait until they become clear... and on the occasions when I don't support his actions, I examine them closely to get the real picture before I open my mouth... so far they have all had hidden benefits that the NEXT president can use to push the pendulum much farther right.

So again, ignore the hitler comparisons and lying rumors. Get on the train. We have cookies, and "Darth Vader and the Stormtroopers" are performing "David Lo Pan Style" in the dining car.

Blogger VD April 14, 2018 7:10 PM  

Can confirm. Markku was never Never Trump.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 7:25 PM  

I was, however, always #NotMyPresident.

Blogger Dire Badger April 14, 2018 7:56 PM  

Markku wrote:I was, however, always #NotMyPresident.

In our exchange a few weeks ago, you already stated that you were not a nevertrumper. That's why I deleted several statements that I had made implying it, except for the ones you were directly responding to, because that would have been... cowardly, to try and pretend I didn't say something, even if I was wrong.

please re-read my exact statements.

What I said

You were never on the Trump Train. #NotMyPresident makes that very clear... I was inviting you aboard. There's still room for you, and it's looking very very inviting.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 7:57 PM  

#NotMyPresident makes that very clear

IT'S A JOKE. I'm a citizen of Finland, and I have never lived, nor plan to live, in USA.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 7:58 PM  

If you still don't understand the joke, my president is Sauli Niinistö, not Donald Trump.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 8:06 PM  

Full disclosure: I mean USA in specific. I have said to Nate that if there is ever Confederate States of America, I will give serious consideration to living there, assuming that is otherwise possible.

Anonymous Anonymous April 14, 2018 8:20 PM  

The same Confederate States of America that shit on poor working whites so lazy cucks could breed with their pet naggers? #PeekBoomer

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 8:23 PM  

The demographics of the South are a concern to me, but the godlessness of the North is an immensely bigger concern. If the federation is made up of genuinely Christian states, then the reason I will never live in USA will no longer apply.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 8:50 PM  

Someone may protest that Finland is godless too. Yes, but it's my country and my language. By moving to USA I would be giving up things and gaining nothing. Also, Finland is cracking down on Christianity at about 10% of the intensity that USA is. The consequences of being outspoken about God's truth, are currently very small.

Where persecution finds you, you must resist it. But you don't go around seeking it. Jesus said to his disciples "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next." If you disobey, then don't expect God to save your ass.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 9:13 PM  

Nate, on the other hand, always hated USA and wished for its destruction. If someone thinks that this is him freaking out, he's reading Nate completely wrong. He's happy about all this. I think what he ultimately feared, was that Trump would manage to actually strengthen the Federation and now it's looking like that fear didn't materialize, so America is back on track towards dissolution.

Me, it simply isn't my fight. Things regarding Russia matter to my immediate life and survival, what with them being right next door and our country having a large amount of Russians in it. Things regarding America matter very little.

Blogger Dire Badger April 14, 2018 10:18 PM  

No, I didn't get the joke. I assume I don't have to explain to you what #NotMyPresident means on sites like Brietbart and Infowars.
I didn't know you were Finnish.
I have been seeing you say #notmypresident for quite some time. In my 'not realizing it is a joke" understanding, that is synonymous with nevertrumper.

All I can say is 'Oops'.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 10:24 PM  

I recall making that joke only one time before this.

Blogger Markku April 14, 2018 10:26 PM  

It refers to the observation that when the DREAMers tweet #NotMyPresident, they are absolutely right. Enrique Peña Nieto is their president, and they should go to their president.

Blogger wreckage April 14, 2018 10:28 PM  

Here's a list of acheivements:

1. Trump is feared
2. Even suspicion of WMDs gets you hammered (but sensibly; capabilities degraded but your capitol intact).
3. It is made clear that American strategic strike capability remains uncontested in the region and possibly the world.

This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, although it was, for purpose 1), portrayed as one. Speed of response is paramount in the human psychology of fear and aversion-learning.

This is also necessary to any long term attempt to progressively disentangle with the region. What happens if you are seen as retreating in defeat? Yeah, that. Follow it out to third order consequences. I trust you follow.

Psychologically, rage is seen as the opposite of fear. This whole thing is, among other things, a straight-up primate dominance display pitched exactly at the barely-beyond-retarded average IQ of the region.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 15, 2018 3:29 AM  

@3

"Vox, regarding Trump declaring martial law, I wanted to know how likely you think it'd succeed considering how converged many of the Military's elites seem to be?"

It's easy.

Recall to active duty each and every general and admiral who Obama fired, and fire each and every one who Obama promoted to replace those who he fired.

That right there will turn EVERYTHING around.

As we say in the army, shit rolls downhill. As the top Obamadroids are removed, their sycophants all the way down the chain are likewise removed.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 15, 2018 3:36 AM  

@10

"The real problem with what is going on in Syria is that it's half Kayfabe and half actual war. At this point, it's unclear who even kicked it off, but it seems like one of the Muslim Brotherhood factions. (The pipepline proposals came after the shooting started, likely as a post hoc appeal for support.) Syria is already an Iranian proxy, so it would make no sense for Iran to mess up their own proxy. Yet, once the shooting starts, who started things doesn't matter too much and the whirlwind pulls in a lot of interests."

This is why I say, "a war, once started, takes on a life of it's own, which even the strongest nations cannot control."
WW2 and Vietnam are prime examples.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 15, 2018 4:01 AM  

@45

"The Russians might want to think about this for a second before they scold us as zionist dupe attack dogs of little mental capacity.

America's public politics is dominated by the SJW mindset and that mindset came about from the Soviet virus."

Hey, Mr. Mantr Man, ever notice how the same left-wing activists who LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED the Soviet Union, and advocated unilateral disarmament in the face of their huge nuclear arsenal combine with "exporting revolution" to every corner of the glove.... those same activists now HATE! HATE! HATE! Russia.

Could it be because those (((activists))) know the difference between the (((Soviet Union government))) and the Christian government of Russia?

And if they can tell the difference, why can't you?

RUSSIA bears zero responsibility for our SJW problem, that is entirely the fault of the (((Soviet Union))).

Blogger Dirk Manly April 15, 2018 4:08 AM  

@52

>> ""You have consistently missed it, complaining that it just doesn't feel right, but it's swung around again and is waiting for you."

> Maybe boarding at the same time as John McCain has something to do with that?"


Traitor McStain was never on the Trump Train. In fact, he's the one conspiring with the left: attempting to sabotage the tracks, the engine, the fuel, and for all we know, kill the engineer.

The Navy should have tried and executed him after his treasonously criminal actions which started the fire on the USS Forrestal.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's always had a secret substance abuse problem.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 15, 2018 4:27 AM  

@56

"Russia is still a problem. Partly because they maintain a large nuclear arsenal, partly because they are historically aggressive.."

On my father's side, I'm of Lithuanian and Ukrainian descent. I studied Russian history for a good chunk of my life (and eventually even learned Russian), on a "know your enemy" sort of basis.

RUSSIA has never been aggressive other than dealing with problems on her borders. The sole exception was that bonehead Tsar Nicholas stupidly sending troops down to Serbia (and therefore INSIDE the Austria-Hungarian empire) over an internal conflict -- this DESPITE Rasputin emphatically telling him that if he sent troops, it would the end of his reign.

Now, there was a lot of exporting of the Revolution from Russian soil from the 1930's through 1980's... but that was under the (((Soviet Union))), which was run by the (((Politburo))), in which the Rus had no control whatsoever. Yes, some Rus did join (((the party))), primarily as a hope to escape being condemned to a life of poverty... but the heart and soul of the Soviet Union was always Talmudist from the very first volley of gunfire from the cruiser Aurora at the Winter Palace.

Short version of an joke
A Polish man finds a lamp with a genie, and gets his 3 wishes.
Each time, his request to the genie is that Poland be sacked by the Mongols, and each time, the genie grants his wish.
After the Mongols leave for the 3rd time, the genie asks the Pole, "Why did you ask for this? And why 3 times???"
The Pole replies -- if the Mongols invade Poland 3 times, that means they had to pass through Russia 6 times.

Russia's history is NOT one of invading it's neighbors (even though Markku and my Lithuanian distant cousins would say otherwise).... Russia's history is primarily one of being invaded constantly.

And where Markku is concerned -- Finland was invaded by (((The Soviet Union))), not a government controlled by Russians.

Blogger Dire Badger April 15, 2018 6:46 AM  

Dirk Manly wrote:

The Navy should have tried and executed him after his treasonously criminal actions which started the fire on the USS Forrestal.


Say.... WHAT?????

He had something to do with the USS Forestfire?

Link please? Some kind of story? I was in DC for years... The Forestall was legendary for Bad DC handling, I have heard the story like a million times.

Please cite your information sources, I REALLY want to know if McCollaborator had something to do with it.

Anonymous Anonymous April 15, 2018 1:35 PM  

@94 Dire Badger:

McCain can be criticized for not joining in the very deadly fire fighting, if you believe the story that he bugged out to his cabin, instead of this, but the Official Account is that a Zuni from a F-4 across the deck accidentally launched due to very bad weapons handling, and struck a wing fuel tank in the A-4 that McCain was adjacent to, also dislodging a couple of old and only fit for dumping at sea 1,000 pound bombs with deteriorated Composition B.

Evidently the damage control team that tried to handle this hadn't been informed they weren't modern bombs with 10 minute cookoff times, so 1 minute and 38 seconds into the incident one cooked off, destroying both A-4s, setting off the rest of their ordnance and fuel, and killing almost all the specialized firefighters on the ship. Then it got worse with untrained firefighters working at cross purposes and more of these old bombs cooking off, 8 total plus one newer 500 pound bomb being sympathetically detonated. 134 killed, 161 injured, 21 aircraft totaled, and the ship was out of commission for 2/3rds of a year.

It's hard to see how it would be possible to pin any blame for the initiation of this disaster on McCain, that is, what could he have done that would have started the disaster? Unless you theorize he released one or more of his wing fuel tanks and bombs to land on the deck, and that caused the former to catch on fire. And that the video of what happened was more falsified than this account, which first shows a rocket firing from on a deck, then cuts to a cameraman panning in the opposite direction of how it officially traveled with video that has streaks but is to the scene with the fire already in progress.

Not sure there's any video of the actual event, it happened to aircraft static on the deck being prepared, not something that would normally be captured and saved on video when all of that was very expensive. The video I linked to could have been arranged for maximum dramatic effect, or possibly to also cover up for McCain. Claims that he "wet started" his engine and that caused the rocket to launch in the plane behind him don't hold water given that these planes had their tails pointing out at the ocean, that much can be confirmed from the video.

Blogger Dire Badger April 15, 2018 5:47 PM  

Well one good part of the Forrestal incident was the excellent amount of Graphic bad examples it provided for the training cadre.

DC training HUGELY emphasized the incident, and when my ship had to deal with a magnesium fire, everyone did everything RIGHT to fight the fire... Not the most skilled firefighting, but no one working at Cross-purposes.

In a very real way, the Forrestal disaster may have saved everyone on my ship... and ours is not the only one.

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