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Friday, April 27, 2018

This is why you should not lie

Especially not to the God-Emperor's Warmaster:
Secretary of Defense James Mattis explained Thursday why he directed a strike that reportedly killed hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria back in February.

Mattis told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the U.S. has a deconfliction line with Russia to ensure that the two countries can communicate in order to avoid direct conflict with one another in Syria. He said that a group of "irregular forces" were in conflict with U.S. forces, and once it was ascertained that those forces were not Russian regulars, Mattis directed a counterattack.

"The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people, and my direction to the chairman was for the force, then, to be annihilated," Mattis said. "And it was."
It never pays to play tricksy word games with a warrior. Be direct. Be honest. And learn to understand when you are defeated and behave accordingly, lest you be destroyed.

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61 Comments:

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 27, 2018 11:03 AM  

They don't call him Chaos 6 for nothing.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 27, 2018 11:06 AM  

Mattis doesn't mince words, either. He doesn't say "limited engagement" like he's running a damn movie theater, some shit like "measured response". He says " annihilated", like he really believes there is no substitute for victory.

Brings a tear to my eye.

Blogger Patrick Kelly April 27, 2018 11:12 AM  

Awesome.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 27, 2018 11:16 AM  

My favorite Mattis quote:
"I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I swear to God, if you fuck with me I'll kill you all."

Blogger James Dixon April 27, 2018 11:18 AM  

I grow more impressed by the man every time I read about what he's done.

Blogger wreckage April 27, 2018 11:25 AM  

"The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people, and my direction to the chairman was for the force, then, to be annihilated," Mattis said. "And it was."

A warrior with a true gift for the laconic.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 27, 2018 11:26 AM  

We have met the enemy, and he is ours.

Blogger Azimus April 27, 2018 11:27 AM  

I thought this was a very good summary of that action. It at least seems plausible to explain why one side was saying "hundreds of Russians killed" and the other side was saying "10-20 Russians were killed." I think Spiegel has some credibility, but I'm not a news junkie.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/american-fury-the-truth-about-the-russian-deaths-in-syria-a-1196074.html

Blogger Azimus April 27, 2018 11:28 AM  

6. wreckage April 27, 2018 11:25 AM
A warrior with a true gift for the laconic.


Agreed. Mattis is an admirable general. The thinking man's Patton.

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 11:48 AM  

Yes, these were 500 Russian troops, pretending to be just pay-for-play guys, but with the full backing of Russian military. They tried a sneak attack, and every body there became a casualty with at least 40% dead, and the rest wounded to the point of non-fighting capacity.

This kind of stuff has been known to many of you for a while now, yet many others cling to FUD.

The Wars now are all stealth and proxy, and it takes lots of research to even come close to keeping up. "Iran next," and they will not be a puppet country.

Blogger The Surly Beaver April 27, 2018 12:07 PM  

I suspect that the irregular Russian forces that were destroyed were encouraged to attack by Putin or those under his orders for two reasons:

1. To test the combat capabilities of American forces and their allies, but more importantly,

2. To get rid of a very large looming problem for Putin, namely what to do with all the irregular volunteers (many if not most of whom won't be ethnic Russians but Caucasian jihadis) who as the war winds down will look to return to Russia bringing violence and crime with them.

A win win for everybody concerned, except for the patsies.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction April 27, 2018 12:35 PM  

@11 I'm skeptical on your first point or that this is to test US combat capabilities. Putin doesn't strike me as a micromanager.

How exactly would engaging US forces with an irregular force using small arms tell them anything they wouldn't already have known after observing US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq for a decade?

Point 2) I think is a definite possibility.

Blogger VFM #7634 April 27, 2018 12:35 PM  

Somehow, I find this incident quite hilarious.

Blogger Markku April 27, 2018 12:48 PM  

Assuming the facts are true, that was the correct course of action.

Blogger Markku April 27, 2018 12:49 PM  

2) may be true, but Putin would also have gained useful knowledge about how Mattis acts.

Blogger Johnny April 27, 2018 12:51 PM  

If those were "Caucasian jihadis" it is all together possibly, maybe even likely, that it was Russia calling the US and telling us where they were.

Blogger Brett baker April 27, 2018 12:53 PM  

Be interesting to find out what happened during the last missile strike. From "We shot down 71 missiles" to "We weren't even shot at" is a pretty big range.

Blogger Brett baker April 27, 2018 12:53 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 12:55 PM  

Mathis is intense, but he is not the one who gave him his head to do this, and also, did you notice that the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT have changed...comes down from the top.

It's not just Mathis, but other good Generals who are allowed Sun Tzu engagement rules today, as they decide what to do on the field in real time.

Blogger BigFire April 27, 2018 1:03 PM  

The Russian mercenaries were disavowed by the Russian military. Thus, they're not afford the protection under the rules of engagement. They're plenty pissed off when they were bombed to hell and back.

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 1:08 PM  

Russia called right after, claiming those were "regular" Russian troops. Mathis replied, as stated above.

Not saying all the wild speculation here is false, and the idea that Putin was "secretly" in on this and happy... is "Conspiracy Theory" promoted by the small minded. Anything is possible, and you could be right?? That and the 71 missiles shot down and the anti-Trump MSM didn't cover it to shame PDJT (yes, they would know, and get proof)...HA, HA,HA!

Connect the dots logically, and stop being stupid.

Blogger Crew April 27, 2018 1:26 PM  

The GE keeps on winning!

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-27/deripaska-agrees-resign-rusal-will-sell-controlling-stake

Blogger Red Bane April 27, 2018 1:30 PM  

Why is the US fighting with the 'Rebels' against Assad's forces, who were also killed in this attack?

Blogger The Surly Beaver April 27, 2018 1:35 PM  

@12 Combat capabilities is probably the incorrect phrase - more accurate would be to say that they were being used to test the resolve of the American leadership. Would the Obama administration have permitted the annihilation of a large force of Russian irregulars?

And there's no suggestion that Putin micromanaged this - but he has history of pushing hard against Western interests/states in order to see gauge their mettle. His administration and military leadership would certainly understand how to use these sorts of opportunites as they present themselves.

Blogger Daniel Bendele April 27, 2018 2:35 PM  

OT: Found this link interesting - http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/04/26/lapd-officer-arrested-smuggle-immigrants-border/

LAPD Officer Mambasse Koulabalo Patara arrested for trying to transport illegal immigrants across the border. Sounds like they all need to go back.

Blogger CarpeOro April 27, 2018 3:04 PM  

There are any number of scenarios that may or may not have been behind the incident (hell, there are likely multiple reasons, including the posibility of an area commander trying something without approval from higher ups). From a military perspective you can only judge the specific event based on its' merits and the information available. As Vox said, from this point of view the message has been sent that the USA under Trump isn't going to play the way Obama did (mixed signals and equivocating).

Blogger Viisaus April 27, 2018 3:42 PM  

This is just American bragging. According to the Der Spiegel investigation, the actual number of killed Russian mercs was more like ten:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/american-fury-the-truth-about-the-russian-deaths-in-syria-a-1196074.html

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 3:52 PM  

Viisaus wrote:This is just American bragging. According to the Der Spiegel investigation, the actual number of killed Russian mercs was more like ten:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/american-fury-the-truth-about-the-russian-deaths-in-syria-a-1196074.html



Just you, and Merkel, and spiegel Know the truth. The only propaganda source that is worse than Commie News Network.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 27, 2018 4:02 PM  

> I suspect that the irregular Russian forces that were destroyed were encouraged to attack by Putin or those under his orders for two reasons:

> 1. To test the combat capabilities of American forces and their allies, but more importantly,

> 2. To get rid of a very large looming problem for Putin, namely what to do with all the irregular volunteers (many if not most of whom won't be ethnic Russians but Caucasian jihadis) who as the war winds down will look to return to Russia bringing violence and crime with them.

> A win win for everybody concerned, except for the patsies."


EVERYTHING must first be viewed from the perspective of "what keeps Syria as a Russian Navy port?"

That is the whole reason for Russia's decades long relationship with the Syrians -- even when under the Communist (((Soviet Unions))); the Assad family is Christian.

If the Russian Irregulars were Christian, then I don't know if there is any point in setting them up. If they were Moslems, then I'm not sure they they would have been fighting FOR the Assad regime, (despite Iran fighting for Assad).

Anonymous Anonymous April 27, 2018 4:15 PM  

It's also a lot easier to remember things if you only have to remember one version.

For some reason lots of people in healthcare think its a good idea to try to cheat patient turn around times. Eventually it leads to

"how did this Dead On Arrival shot dead by cops patient get a PCXR & lab results done 20 min before he came in the door?"

Blogger VFM #7634 April 27, 2018 4:18 PM  

The "Russians" were quite likely chorny zhopy from the Caucasus. For one thing, they'd have to have been born during the 1990s, when ethnic Russian birth rates were rock-bottom. The muz were the only ones with a lot of disposable sons born during then.

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 4:29 PM  

"Why is the US fighting with the 'Rebels' against Assad's forces, who were also killed in this attack?"

Why rebels in quotes? These are not the same as the ones before, as they are sections of the GCC, which are doing much of the work on the ground.


What is going on is the past administrations, as usual, have lied to the whole world, and especially BHO. Iran is just a few short days from creating nukes, but if they do fire up these processes the USA will take just the nuke creating areas out.

The Iranian Mullahs are losing power and are desperate. Iran's money is useless and there are protests going on all over the country wide, much worse than before. These Mullahs are fanatics and very capable of using a couple of nukes. A pathway close enough has to be left open for USA planes to take them out if they move that direction, so the USA cannot let advanced Russian anti-plane missiles control Syria's airspace right now, as that would make a mission to destroy Iran's nuke capability harder. Russia will not start nuclear war with the USA, but likely figure they cannot be held responsible for Iran nukes that are not even suppose to exist for a number of years. The Russians would not even fire the anti-plane missiles, as that would be done by Iran's proxies. If these desperate azzhat Mullahs cannot create nuke level chaos, it will be over for them within another 3-4 months and maybe less.

Anyone that's not a moron, knows this is about desperate Iranian Mullah's holding the world hostage, as NK did just a while ago.

And, how did NK turn out? Come on now, and qualify as imbeciles and say, "We don't know yet."

How did NK turn out?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 27, 2018 4:40 PM  

tuberman wrote:A pathway close enough has to be left open for USA planes to take them out if they move that direction, so the USA cannot let advanced Russian anti-plane missiles control Syria's airspace right now, as that would make a mission to destroy Iran's nuke capability harder.
Israel and KSA would both allow any overflights by USAF or USN aircraft into Iran at any time for any stated reason.

Blogger tuberman April 27, 2018 5:15 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:tuberman wrote:A pathway close enough has to be left open for USA planes to take them out if they move that direction, so the USA cannot let advanced Russian anti-plane missiles control Syria's airspace right now, as that would make a mission to destroy Iran's nuke capability harder.

Israel and KSA would both allow any overflights by USAF or USN aircraft into Iran at any time for any stated reason.


Yeah, you're correct, but there is some reason they want to keep advanced S 400 SAMS out of Syria now, and it has to do with Iran more than Syria. There is a take down going on of Iran, Hezbollah, and the other Iranian Mullah's proxies, including in Yemen. The other fight is getting rid of C_A Clowns out of the area, and they had big concentrations of Black hats in that area. As I said earlier, Armenia was a puppet state of the Clowns until recently with some major sections there.

In summary, I will just say this will turn out for the better at least short-to-medium term. If Trump had the time, this would have been handled economically, but he is America First, and this will prove to be more of the same. He saw a crisis here that needed to be dealt with this way or he would have used other pressures.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins April 27, 2018 5:25 PM  

It is good to have a president that truly tries to keep his promises. It is good to have a military that says, aren't you allies? No? *Boom*

What is sad is that this has become unusual.

Blogger Kristophr April 27, 2018 5:40 PM  

Not much of a loss for Russia. Those mercs were mostly Chechens.

Entirely disposable.

Blogger Kristophr April 27, 2018 5:45 PM  

Snidely Whiplash:
My favorite Mattis quote:
"I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I swear to God, if you fuck with me I'll kill you all."

https://youtu.be/pXGw2RBtlnM?t=1m43s

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 27, 2018 5:51 PM  

Why else do you think he is one of our demigods, shoulder to shoulder with Chesty, Butler, Vandergrift and the rest?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 27, 2018 5:52 PM  

Also consider that Marines comprise Trump's closest military advisors. Every service fails at true 4GW/maneuver warfare, but the USMC comes the closest.

Blogger Red Bane April 27, 2018 6:41 PM  

@32 'These are not the same as the ones before, as they are sections of the GCC'

So what? Why are we bothering a secular sovereign nation, to what end?

Blogger Dirk Manly April 27, 2018 7:35 PM  

> Mattis is an admirable general. The thinking man's Patton.

Patton was an intellectual. He just couldn't spell well (he's the stereotypical example of ADHD).

US Armor Doctrine in the border war against Poncho Villa -- Patton

US Armor Doctrine in WW1 France? Patton.

He LITERALLY developed the curriculum and the commandant of the US Armor school in France, Commanded and lead the first US tank brigade in combat (ironically, ON FOOT) -- getting stitched in the rear end by a German machine gun on their first day in combat. [And forever after used to embarrass his wife by showing off his scars at parties.... which, of course, required dropping his pants]

US Armor Doctrine in WW2 N. Africa, France, and Germany? Written in the mid 1930's by..... Patton.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 27, 2018 7:36 PM  

"Any man can spell a word the same way each time. It takes a creative genius like myself to come up with 3 or 4 different spellings."
-- George S. Patton.

Anonymous Anonymous April 27, 2018 7:51 PM  

@41

Great Uncle "Bigun" Sharp was with Patton the whole time from north Africa to the outskirts of Berlin. But Uncle took a flesh wound in the ass and was shipped home. By then, the army was using any excuse to ship men home as the war was effectively over.

My dad (medic Korean War) loved to tell that story about "Bigun" getting sent home just as the prize was in sight so to speak. The men loved Patton by testimony of my great uncle.

Blogger Lovekraft April 27, 2018 8:23 PM  

What is the ethnicity of these 'irregulars?' Are they pale-skinned Russians or mongolian/-stanians?

Blogger Roger G2 April 27, 2018 8:50 PM  

Mattis, you savage genius! That’s the best wording of a command decision I’ve ever heard. It’s right up there with “because you told me to, drill sergeant.”
But seriously, he’s a savage and a warrior. As if that isn’t obvious.

Blogger Hunsdon April 27, 2018 9:22 PM  

tuberman:

If you can't even spell the man's name right it's hard to give a crap about your opinion.

I swear, you put me in mind of Whiskey at Steve's place and his multiple spellings of Buck-anon.

Blogger Sim1776 April 27, 2018 10:30 PM  

@Dirk Manly

The Assads are Alawites. They're a sect of Shia Mohammedanism. This also explains the Hezbollah and Iran alliance.

I'll agree with other posters that these "Russian" forces were rather more provincial. It's not a stretch to think that Caucasian units bulk up SAA forces at the pointy end now. 7 years and pacifying over half of a country will wear down any domestic force.

Anonymous Anonymous April 27, 2018 11:01 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:

What is the ethnicity of these 'irregulars?' Are they pale-skinned Russians or mongolian/-stanians?

Saker had an article about it over a month back. Mostly Chechens it would seem. The irregulars attacked with zero air-support, which was very odd. The defeated force also included other Syrian allies, but no Hezbollah.

Anonymous Anonymous April 28, 2018 1:43 AM  

To The Surly Beaver

NONE of killed Russian irregulars was Caucasian, all of them were ethnical Russians. Mainly from villages.

The main cause of this attack was to seize oil factory.
Irregulars (called "Wagner group") belongs to Prigozin, one of Putin's oligarhs and friend.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 28, 2018 4:06 AM  

@49 hetman 1

Given your past typical Ukrainian inability to disentangle truth from your hatred of Russia, and especially the Russian government, allow me to take ANYTHING you write relating to Russia with a HUGE block of salt...

[And I'm 1/4 Ukrainian!]

Blogger The Surly Beaver April 28, 2018 4:33 AM  

@49 If there were ethnic Russians involved they would have been similarly expendable fanatical ultra-nationalists - many who have been sharply critical of Putin's refusal to expand the scope of the border war with Ukraine.

Blogger Kona Commuter April 28, 2018 5:15 AM  

Thomas Whitiker tweeted about this. You could almost feel the glee when he told of the massacre. Apparently the Russians were screaming down the radio for the attack to stop.

Yeah yeah, all is fair in love and war and all that. However consider what happens _when_ the shoe is on the other foot. Remember that the Russians are there by invitation. Everyone else is there by force of arms.

Anonymous Anonymous April 28, 2018 7:05 AM  

To Dirk Manly

You may see photography of killed members of Wagner group here
https://el-murid.livejournal.com/3718492.html
https://el-murid.livejournal.com/3713306.html
https://el-murid.livejournal.com/3708190.html
https://el-murid.livejournal.com/3704596.html
etc
All of them are ethnical Russians.

But you are right – I do not have any sympathy to the government of Putin's oligarchy. And I wonder why some American alt-rights have such sympathy. Maybe they think that this government is "Russia First"? It is a delusion. Putin's government is just another edition of "Papa Dok" of Haiti.

To The Surly Beaver

> If there were ethnic Russians involved they would have been similarly expendable fanatical ultra-nationalists

Wagner group has no ideology, it works for money.

Blogger Red Bane April 28, 2018 8:56 AM  

@53
'I do not have any sympathy to the government of Putin's oligarchy'

It has nothing to do with Putin's regional aims. Any action taken against Assad emboldens (((ISIS))) and the other maniacal head-choppers in the region. It jeopardizes ancient Christian communities. It is that simple. Leave them alone, let the Russians help in the defeat of the ISIS and Israels expansionist dreams

Blogger Dirk Manly April 28, 2018 9:58 AM  

@55

Looking at those photos, 2 and 4 are definitely Russian. 1 could be anything from Chechnyan to French, just not Spanish or Greek. Grew up in Russian? Yes. Loyalty first to Russia? Maybe, maybe not. 3 Doesn't look very much Russian... could be just about any nationality. Could be ethnic Russian, but...who knows.


Putin campaigned on a promise to raise the standard of living in Russia. Which he has apparently done. If he's such a tyrant towards the Russian people, why are most of them happy with Putin?

Blogger Dirk Manly April 28, 2018 10:10 AM  

In Russia, the primary anti-Putin people are

a) The usual (((journalist/agitators)))

b) sexual deviates (Pussy Riot, gays who want to sodomize teenage boys, etc.)

The people knew EXACTLY what they would be getting after the 2-term "time-out" with Medvedev as President, and willingly voted him back in for 3rd and 4th terms, by large majorities.

Anonymous Anonymous April 28, 2018 11:17 AM  

To Dirk Manly

> If he's such a tyrant towards the Russian people, why are most of them happy with Putin?

why Putin received 75% on last election, isn't it?

Stalin received 99%, Papa Doc (Haiti) received the same.
Were Soviet people or Haitians happy with them? I am not quite sure.
If someone completely controls TV and other media, he receives what he wants.

> In Russia, the primary anti-Putin people are…

Much more.
Politics is a concentrate of economics (c). Then all, who oppose oligarchy, are oppose Putin.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 28, 2018 11:20 AM  

Stalin 99% of the vote (personality cult)
Putin 75% of the vote (not a personality cult, but recognized as being a good leader by 3 out of 4 voters)

Thanks. You make my point for me.

Blogger MB April 28, 2018 12:39 PM  

If he's such a tyrant towards the Russian people, why are most of them happy with Putin?

Because Russians love tyrants, especially tyrants who put the "rich" and the "boyars" in their place. Tall poppy syndrome. There are some middle-class types in Russia, who mostly live in Moscow and St. Petersburg or other big cities, speak English, German, or French, vacation abroad, work in knowledge-based industries, etc.. These types have little to no power, many of them are corrupt and, if wealthy, got their fortune by dubious means, some of them are indeed ethnically mixed, and people probably love to hate them.
Then there are the "good" middle-class types, former and current KGB, GRU, and FSB types, army colonels, police captains, etc., whom people love and are encouraged to love. They firstly don't flaunt their wealth as much, secondly it's known exactly how they got their wealth, and thirdly they don't lord it over ordinary people, but if you cross them you know exactly what's coming to you.
It's a simple equation, business is dirty and corrupt, defending the motherland is noble and deserves to be rewarded. Just like Putin.
This goes back in Russia at least to when Ivan the Terrible and his forefathers crushed those grubby Novgorod merchants, half a millennium ago. Or more likely to the Mongolians, whose customs were perpetuated by the Muscovite princes.
Love of tyranny is part of the Russian spirit by now. They respect a strong whip (knut?) hand.
100 years ago, Alexander III was assassinated, then reform attempts eventually led to anarchy, a civil war, and the execution of the last czar. Then the Communists reestablished order (albeit a harsher order than before).
More recently, Yeltsyn's reforms led to a profound dissatisfaction and much civil trouble, which probably many Russians associated to other Times of Trouble caused by the weakness of the central government.
Putin is a traditional strong Russian leader, in the mold of Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Katherine II, Nicholas I, Stalin, Brezhnev, etc.. He especially resembles Peter the Great, in my opinion.
Things are back to normal and most Russians appreciate it. In Russia, tyranny is not the best way, it's the only way.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia April 28, 2018 1:42 PM  

I have a close relative who was in the 82nd Airborne, and he worked with Marines in Afghanistan. Mattis is the Marine's GE, and as my relative once told, even the Army loves THAT marine.

If Mattis said, "take that hill," every soldier and marine within the sound of his voice would trip over one another to do it.

Blogger Dirk Manly April 29, 2018 12:22 AM  

@61



"If Mattis said, "take that hill," every soldier and marine within the sound of his voice would trip over one another to do it."

That's because we know that if Mattis says, "take that hill!" he'll be backing us up with every air package and indirect fire unit available, and keeping us properly supplied.

He's not the type to issue such orders about something he doesn't actually care about -- and then go golfing while his troops are taking casualties to carry out his orders.

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