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Sunday, May 27, 2018

Darkstream: 7 Answers for Jordan Peterson



Seven Answers to Jordan Peterson's seven questions on the Darkstream.

1. What if it was nothing but our self-deceit, our cowardice, hatred and fear, that pollutes our experience and turns the world into hell?

Then the problem could be solved by sweet reason and a dedication to facing the truth about ourselves. But it isn't so it can't. And it isn't our self-deceit, cowardice, hatred, and fear, but our greed, our pride, our lusts, and our will to power. Beyond that is the problem of supernatural evil, which is totally unaffected by our internal emotions. Moreover, this concept of evil contradicts Peterson's own stated belief that it is group identification that lies at the bottom of the human motivation for evil

2. This is a hypothesis, at least—as good as any other, admirable and capable of generating hope. Why can't we make the experiment, and find out if it is true? 

Because it will turn out like every other utopian experiment; in large quantities of bloodshed. Especially since Peterson is determined to try the experiment on a global level.

3. Does survival itself depend upon a solution to the problem of war?

No. Because war is not the problem as far as human survival is concerned. Neither is religion. Science, and more importantly, technology, are what pose a potential danger to the species. That being said, inasmuch as this is a problem of survival, the problem is likely to cure itself, as the infrastructure required to maintain this level of destructive technology is more fragile than either the Earth or the species.

4. Is Tammy Peterson's dream that it was five minutes to midnight back in 2016 prophetic or significant in any way?

No. It was a bad dream and nothing more. Her dream is considerably less significant than Jordan Peterson's dreams about dog-headed aliens butchering his beautiful cousin and offering the meat to him.

5. Is history itself a unitary phenomenon?

No. History is neither a force nor an inevitability. It is merely a very incomplete record of the past. Peterson is no more correct in his bizarre take on history than Marx or Fukuyama were.

6. Is Western culture the only one to possess a history based on objective events?

No. There are ancient Egyptian records of the height of the annual Nile flooding dating back to 3050 BC. The formal rules of sumo date back to 726 BC. The tax records of the Qin Dynasty date back to 221 BC.

7. Have I have discovered something that no one else has any idea about?

No, you're just a very frightened and mentally disturbed individual who was literally driven crazy due to your fear of death.

Jordan Peterson's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities. One world, one race, one identity. Evil will be vanquished and paradise on Earth will result.

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71 Comments:

Blogger Bastion Harm May 27, 2018 8:38 AM  

And it isn't our self-deceit, cowardice, hatred, and fear, but our greed, our pride, our lusts, and our will to power.

Indeed. Peterson's outlook, like modernity in general, doesn't have a problem with greed, pride, and lust, thinking that these are morally neutral, if not virtues in themselves.

Jordan Peterson's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities.

...which will end up pitting group A, who wish to eliminate all group identities, against group B, who wish to preserve them, thereby continuing the friend/enemy distinction which will always accompany human existence.

You cannot transcend the political Mr. Peterson...all attempts to do so will only cause the political to reassert itself more forcibly than before.

Blogger pyrrhus May 27, 2018 8:53 AM  

Advanced civilizations recorded many kinds of data, including eclipses and other astronomical data, and commercial contracts for the sale of grain and other commodities...What could Peterson have been thinking?

Blogger Lamarck Leland May 27, 2018 8:55 AM  

"Jordan Peterson's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities."

Paradoxically, the easiest way to eliminate competing group identities would be to exterminate all non-Han Chinese from the face of the Earth.
That would leave only one identity remaining.

Of course it still wouldn't work as new identities would just emerge in the place of the old one.

Blogger Johnny May 27, 2018 8:56 AM  

Ron L Hubbard of Dianetics fame has that same quality, thinking that was all over the place. Compartmentalized seems to be the problem. Different isolated bits of analysis that don't fit together into a whole. And a good deal of wish fullness in Peterson's case. Like most of us, Peterson's thinking isn't nearly as original as he thinks.

Dianetics as it is implemented strikes me as a self knowing fraud by those who run it. Peterson I think believes his own stuff. The overall difficulty with his desired outcome is that somebody has to be in charge, and that somebody becomes the new tyrant.

A long time ago I read a comic staring the Phantom. The parable of the Phantom we might call it. Seems he put together a garden of Eden of sorts where all the animals were nice to each other. It all worked until it didn't. The lion ate the lamb (or whatever) and after that all hell broke lose. And so it goes with utopia.

The the traditional utopias are moral ones. If only we were all more moral. Peterson, like Freud, like Marx, like Hubbard; frames it more like mental clarity. If only we all thought logically it would all sort out. This is also a common implicit assumption in the social sciences. Get people to think clearly and logically and social problems will all sort out. It is not selfishness but confusion that causes our problems. One might put some hope in the approach except that it has turned out so badly so frequently.

Blogger Lucas May 27, 2018 8:59 AM  

The guy is mad as hell. Thank you Vox for exposing this fraud.

Blogger 罗臻 May 27, 2018 9:05 AM  

Chinese history switches heroes to villains and back again with the turn of the dynasties. One cannot do that with myths, we cannot say evil is good, or that God and the Devil reverse places. As the Bible has shown, a lot of what is considered myth is objective history.

Blogger Anno Ruse May 27, 2018 9:07 AM  

"I'm going to keep pointing out Jordan Peterson's evil until... until... something!"

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 27, 2018 9:13 AM  

As a cult it will die upon the spear of Agree & Amplify, he's going to end war you know.

Blogger Anno Ruse May 27, 2018 9:13 AM  

VD's morning ritual of standing outside Peterson's house brandishing a Bible.

"This evil shall not stand!" - the Evil Dark Lord of Evil

Blogger Alphaeus May 27, 2018 9:37 AM  

"exterminate all non-Han Chinese "

A long time ago I figured out that I would never get the Libertarianism which I sought unless and until I exterminated all non-Libertarians off the face of the earth. Unfortunately I could not convince my fellow Libertarians to see the wisdom and efficacy of my plan. Most of them, anyway.

Blogger Android May 27, 2018 9:43 AM  

Jordan Peterson's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities

Wouldn't that make him a run of the mill progressive? Progressives believe that the politically incorrect must be sacrificed to prevent their god, the Evil God Adolf Hitler, from arising and blotting out the sun. If Peterson believes the same thing he's a straight forward progressive minus the womyn worship.

Blogger Phillip George May 27, 2018 9:44 AM  

utopians are dangerous.

Blogger GAHCindy May 27, 2018 9:44 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger OGRE May 27, 2018 9:44 AM  

@4 Johnny

It is not selfishness but confusion that causes our problems.

Its so surprising that the Darwinists take such a position, as its completely contradictory to the processes of competition and selection. Its as if they have this worldview within which they try to cram every theory and belief...whether scientific, political, economic, social, psychological...but then are seeking to transcend it, to lift humanity out of and above the evolutionary process, to escape the iron clad laws that they've worked so hard to apply to all aspects of existence.

Its all so internally inconsistent. Ruthless, merciless competition is somehow supposed to lead to mutual cooperation and universal harmony? The completed utopia is as fantastical a concept as that of the undergirding universal force of Darwinian progress negating itself in the process.

Blogger Neutrinoide May 27, 2018 9:49 AM  

So, I guest you don't want to invite him in your next Darkstream?

Blogger Sam Spade May 27, 2018 10:04 AM  

The more you analyze him and his words, the worse he seems. He is getting very sinister.

Blogger artensoll May 27, 2018 10:06 AM  

7. MrMantraMan "he's going to end war you know."

Can't wait to see what he does with the Middle East!

Blogger The Chortling May 27, 2018 10:07 AM  

@12
isn't it odd the vicious reaction of the Left to the label "animals" for people who literally and proudly refer to themselves as animals, "consensus science" has referred to them as animals for the last 1-1/2 centuries and these same tenderhearted mushbrains go "beast mode" on anyone who wants to teach their kids this "might not be the most airtight descriptor of origins" in school... ?

TDS is a raging mental illness in 2018

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 27, 2018 10:33 AM  

First thing I watched was the interview with the Britt chick. Okay, that wasn't horrible but vox made a point I missed, (he gives women and men the same advice). Then I kind of watched him and Benji talk. That was painful for a number of reasons not least because Benji sounds like my ten year old grand daughter.

The next thing you know old JP thinks he's struck gold with a new theory of history and an end to world war. And what Canadian worries about world war and doesn't simply go somewhere the nukes won't fall?

If you're really scared of nuclear war he's got a bajillion square miles of safe land, clean water, and rural neighbors. Farming is hard but with modern methods if you're just darling to eat it's not bad people do it as a hobby all the time.

Since that's the simplest solution and trivially easy compared to ending world war, ending group differences, and invading cannibal dog men, why didn't he do that?

The work and fresh air would have done him a world of good and just maybe he would have found God instead of Jung.

Blogger Darwinite May 27, 2018 10:35 AM  

10 years ago, I took SJW101 (Introduction to University Learning) to learn where they were coming from, and it explains JBP’s shamanic religion and what he is doing perfectly.

The idea embodied in Q.6 - that reality is shaped by a collective worldview that is implanted within you unconsciously, and that the western rational worldview is no better than any mystical native shamanism - is universal and explicit within the humanities. It is the blue pill of postmodern SJW doctrine.

They teach that we have no way of comprehending how the medievals, ancients, or modern primitives think, because we don’t share a worldview. They also teach that academics know how the medievals and ancients thought (alchemy works, the world is flat, etc), and that the native shaman worldview is no better or worse at explaining the world than modernism.

What they will never admit, but following the footnotes back always proves, is that the concept was created by the Nazis, in order to pacify the Poles, by using their cultural history against them.

Blogger Flair1239 May 27, 2018 10:45 AM  

12 minute video. Jordan Peterson on Globalism and Nationalism. This is an excerpt from his lecture on the Tower of Babel.

Relevant to the conversation of the last two days.

https://youtu.be/IpXVoSZyHXM

By the way I really enjoyed this Darkstream. I think I understand where you are coming from now. My only retort is that I do not think that JP is interested in a Global government based on mandatory cleaning of rooms. I think the video link above may add some clarity.

Blogger Johnny May 27, 2018 10:57 AM  

The idea embodied in Q.6 - that reality is shaped by a collective worldview that is implanted within you unconsciously, and that the western rational worldview is no better than any mystical native shamanism - is universal and explicit within the humanities. It is the blue pill of postmodern SJW doctrine.

The weird thing about this stuff is that if they actually took it to heart they would be self discredited. What we teach in our schools is almost all science, and if there is not merit to it, why teach it? And if there is no merit to it, why try to learn from those who studied in the area?

I say screw the second hand reporting. Bring in the native shaman and lets learn directly from him. Why drink from the bucket if you can drink from the well.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 11:16 AM  

My only retort is that I do not think that JP is interested in a Global government based on mandatory cleaning of rooms.

Agreed. He is interested in a global government because a) he works for the UN, b) it is an aspect of his recommendations in the UN report he helped author, and c) it is proposed solution for his assertion that competing identity groups are the source of war and all human evil.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 27, 2018 11:23 AM  

Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Welt.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 11:27 AM  

"What we teach in our schools is almost all science..."

Science-as-persons -- or rather their opinions (Scientistry, sort of). Typically not actual science-as-knowledge (Scientage) or God-forbid, science-as-method (Scientody) which often isn't even taught at the college level anymore.

"...and if there is not merit to it, why teach it?"

Propaganda.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 27, 2018 11:30 AM  

So to end war he will eliminate all causes of war. Wouldn't that be a war itself? The war to end all wars?

Blogger Phelps May 27, 2018 11:31 AM  

Why can't we make the experiment, and find out if it is true?

This, Dr. Peterson, is why your experiments require ethical approval from a third party.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 27, 2018 11:31 AM  

Wait...I got it. The War on War!

Blogger Jackie Chun May 27, 2018 11:32 AM  

Where on earth did you read about tax records of the ancient Qin dynasty?

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 11:47 AM  

Where on earth did you read about tax records of the ancient Qin dynasty?

I knew about them because I am an East Asian Studies major. But I did confirm the specific dynasty on Infogalactic.

It might help to understand that my non-fiction reading of late has been the section on the Justinian Code from the Cambridge Medieval History. I find that it helps to balance modern reading with the ancients and medievals; this tends to cure one of the notion that we are any smarter, or think very much differently, than our predecessors.

Frankly, the Justinian Code would be a huge improvement on the current US legal system.

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 27, 2018 11:47 AM  

"One world, one race, one identity"

So Peterson's solution is the Tower of Babel v2.0? For a man who nominally pretends to be Christian in some capacity he sure has very little understanding of the Bible.

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 27, 2018 11:50 AM  

Also, anyone else ever notice that these utopian types always resort to euphemism to describe their methods of obtaining their utopia? "Eliminate all causes of war" - eliminate? Whoa partner, you understand what that entails, right? Hint: it starts with a "v" and ends in "iolence".

He hasn't found a way to end war, he's just found a new motivation (well, new to him at least) for waging it.

Blogger lowercaseb May 27, 2018 11:53 AM  

Jordan Peterson's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities. One world, one race, one identity. Evil will be vanquished and paradise on Earth will result.

So I guess he read "the Lathe of Heaven" in the 70s as a a self-help book rather than science fiction.

Blogger Johnny May 27, 2018 11:56 AM  

Don't know about the Qin dynasty, but societies that are large and of any sophistication need to record events as they occur. When a peasant pays his taxes he is apt to get a receipt of some type. Can be a writing or perhaps a token that resembles a coin. Sometimes these receipts came close to being money. A farmer might barter the receipt to a neighbor who wanted to relieve himself of the burden of paying tribute to the king. If the token manages to endure it will turn up in archeological dig. Also at times there will be central record keeping on how much was paid up.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 12:01 PM  

Also at times there will be central record keeping on how much was paid up.

Yeah, but that's all myth and narrative. It's not objective or empirical thinking, right?

Blogger Flair1239 May 27, 2018 12:02 PM  

https://youtu.be/IpXVoSZyHXM

In this video he directly addresses the Tower of Babel. I think you will find it interesting.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 12:30 PM  

In this video he directly addresses the Tower of Babel. I think you will find it interesting.

I read the transcript. Do you understand that he is neither rejecting globalism nor supporting nationalism there?

What he is trying to do is fix globalism so nationalism is not appealing.

I'll do a post on this soon.

Blogger robwbright May 27, 2018 12:46 PM  

"... it isn't our self-deceit, cowardice, hatred, and fear [that pollute our experience and turn the world into hell], but our greed, our pride, our lusts, and our will to power."

Vox, awhile back you said:

"When I get it wrong and you can conclusively prove it, then show me! If you're correct, I won't attack you, much less call you a coward and a failure like Peterson did, to the contrary, I will be grateful to you for helping me get back on the correct path of true understanding."

Challenge accepted.

Your statement responding to JP that I quoted above is wrong - and you knew or should have known that. Self-deception is all over the bible as a serious problem that pollutes our experience and leads us into hell (thus turning the world into hell):

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick. Who can understand it?"

"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."

"For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked."

Isaiah uses the following an explanation for how people turn to idolatry - which would certainly pollute our experience and turn the world into hell.

"... a deluded heart has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself or say, “Is there not a lie in my right hand?”"

As to cowardice and fear:

"But as for the cowardly... as for murderers... idolaters... their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

"The wicked flee when no one pursues..."

"The fear of man lays a snare..."

Let me get this straight... you're saying that cowardice doesn't turn the world into hell, but the cowardly's portion is to burn in hell?

Note that the idolaters also end up in hell - and as noted previously, self deception leads one into idolatry. And murderers are noted for hatred, are they not?

How about that issue of hatred?

"Now the works of the flesh are evident... idolatry, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions... and things like these."

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

"... whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire."

The truth is that our self-deceit, cowardice, hatred, fear, greed, pride, lusts, and will to power ALL pollute our experience and turn the world into hell. Your quoted statement on the issue is patently false.

This error of some concern... because I am certain that you are aware of all of those verses quoted above. Yet you appear to have forgotten them as a result of your weird more-than-a-month-long JP crusade.

A couple weeks ago in the comments, you claimed to have no blind spots at all. You ought to reconsider that position in light of your error in this blog post and in light of this verse:

"This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know."

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 27, 2018 12:51 PM  

The religion of the worship of Man, with a focus on Self.
There is no greater truth.
It's all about Me.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 12:51 PM  

Your statement responding to JP that I quoted above is wrong - and you knew or should have known that.

No, it is not wrong.

Self-deception is all over the bible as a serious problem that pollutes our experience and leads us into hell (thus turning the world into hell):

Your argument is stupid, logically fallacious, and incorrect. The world is fallen and will remain fallen whether we are self-deceived or not.

Your quoted statement on the issue is patently false.

It is not false in any way, shape, or form.

This error of some concern... because I am certain that you are aware of all of those verses quoted above. Yet you appear to have forgotten them as a result of your weird more-than-a-month-long JP crusade.

It is not an error. You are egregiously wrong, and given the absolutely inept attempt to "correct" me, I strongly suggest you do not do so again.

Blogger Flair1239 May 27, 2018 12:56 PM  

Is it fair to say that you are saying that Peterson’s emphasis of the individule over group identity is just Globalism by another name?

How would that differ from Molyneaux saying “my tribe is smart people”?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 12:57 PM  

Self deception is symptomatic and second-order causative etc, rather than first-order causative.

Cowardice and/or fear do not directly cause sin either, although cowardice is only an interpretation of behaviors that themselves exist due to sin. Again, symptomatic -- or irrelevant -- rather than causative.

Hatred also is not a sin.

Vainglory, Greed, and lusts are sins in and of themselves, by definition.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 12:59 PM  

"A couple weeks ago in the comments, you claimed to have no blind spots at all."

Liar. Incoming spamhammer.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 1:01 PM  

"Is it fair to say that you are saying that Peterson’s emphasis of the individule over group identity is just Globalism by another name?"

That's not even coherent, let alone a sane interpretation.

Blogger Alphaeus May 27, 2018 1:08 PM  

"absolutely inept attempt to "correct" me, I strongly suggest you do not do so again."

Allow me to correct you both. All PBJ is trying to do when he cherry picks "self-deceit, cowardice, hatred, and fear" as the fundamental source of war and social discord is employ the verbal tools that all Globalists use to bash nationalism. The first benefit to the Globalist scum is that as a result nationalists will argue over which sins are more to blame than others for our predicament. The cause of our present political problems is Globalism and the Globalists. The Globalist bastards are experts at manipulating all of human's sin nature to accomplish their wicked goals, just like their father who art in hell, Satan.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 1:08 PM  

@40 Even if we grant the premise that hatred is not a sin, we can't deny that hatred causes wars, can we? In that case sin =/= cause of violence.

Blogger Flair1239 May 27, 2018 1:09 PM  

I took it as a cautionary statement on the feasibility of global systems. To oversimplify I heard him say that the world was to complicated to accommodate a global utopian system.

I agree he was not advocating Nationalism, merely explaining why he thought it was resurging in Europe.

My view on Peterson and Nationalism is that he is likely a reluctant civic nationalist. But that is just a guess.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 27, 2018 1:36 PM  

"Take your pills" Peterson would be immediately shunned and possibly endangered if he admitted believing Resurrection or genetic racial distinctions, so in order to communicate with his peers he has to present ideas within their frame of mind. It's a calculated dishonesty for a cult of pill-heads, that also provides a peek into his mind.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 1:42 PM  

"Even if we grant the premise that hatred is not a sin, we can't deny that hatred causes wars, can we? In that case sin =/= cause of violence."

Tell you what, you go read that Bible that you clearly don't own and then maybe I'll pretend you're not a deceitful halfwit.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 1:48 PM  

I know, I know. Popping that Bible-reading cherry. Psychically painful.

I'm sure you'll manage.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 1:58 PM  

"Tell you what, you go read that Bible that you clearly don't own and then maybe I'll pretend you're not a deceitful halfwit."

Ah, well the Bible is a large book, as you well know, and since I am so unfamiliar with it, I'll have to refer to an expert such as yourself. Where can I find the passage that claims hatred has no part in starting wars?

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 27, 2018 2:02 PM  

AbsurdityIsPeace
Proverbs 6:16-19
16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 2:06 PM  

Which point are you looking to prove? That hatred is not considered a sin?

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 27, 2018 2:09 PM  

God hates people who wage unjust war. and so should you.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 2:11 PM  

I agree with that; what made hoy think I didn't?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 2:17 PM  

"Where can I find the passage that claims hatred has no part in starting wars?"

Before I address this, you're not good at sarcasm.

You have multiple overlapping problems before we even get to the Bible.

"We can't deny that hatred causes wars, can we?"

Yes, yes we can. Hatred certainly exists without war. Wars are more commonly fought for greed in the present day than for hatred. There is thus not a necessary correlation in either direction.

Yes, I see you lining up to try to move the goalposts from here. No, that hatred can cause and sometimes has caused wars does not mean that it always does, as is necessary to your point having any validity. It doesn't even mean that all wars are caused by hatred, and such is clearly not the case.

"In that case sin =/= cause of violence."

Both false and irrelevant. Without the initial sin there would be no need for mortal opposition and violence, therefore we can say that yes, sin is necessarily the cause of all violence. After that, violence against evil or the wicked is often not only not sinful, but is righteous and just instead.

Now to your actual question, which also has multiple problems:

#1: It has no bearing on either my statements or arguments, for the reasons I have stated above. You're already trying to move the goalposts. Assuming you're not doing this intentionally, spend more time parsing exactly what my statements could potentially mean. Be precise with any following questions.
#2: "Even if we grant the premise that hatred is not a sin". This is implicit. God literally lists people he hates, and types of people he hates, right there in the Bible you haven't read. Heirarchically, if God exists, he cannot possibly be evil unless a greater universe exists above him in hierarchy, which both denies the definition of a monastic God and exceeds the realms of current potential human experience.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 2:33 PM  

Is it fair to say that you are saying that Peterson’s emphasis of the individule over group identity is just Globalism by another name?

No. I'm saying he is a globalist, period. His emphasis of the individual is merely a tactic utilized to destroy the group identification that stands in the way of his globalist objectives.

we can't deny that hatred causes wars, can we?

Of course we can. Hatred doesn't cause wars, wars cause hatred. You have it backwards.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 2:34 PM  

It's a calculated dishonesty for a cult of pill-heads, that also provides a peek into his mind.

No, it's not. He does not believe what you imagine he believes. If you had read his books, you would understand this.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 2:45 PM  

1. Do not accuse me of moving the goalposts when it's your fault for misinterpreting my original statement. "Hatred causes wars" is not claiming that all wars are caused by hatred just like saying "smoking causes cancer" doesn't mean all cancer patients are smokers.

2. Just because something is alright for God to do, that same freedom does not extend to us. In fact, Jesus put much emphasis on non-hatred and forgiveness of enemies. That is why I had to "grant" the premise that hatred is not a sin.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 3:15 PM  

"Do not accuse me of moving the goalposts when it's your fault for misinterpreting my original statement."

My bad for finding the sole instance where your statement actually potentially led to a valid point instead of being mindless blather. I apologize, I'll estimate further downward in future dealings with you.

"Just because something is alright for God to do, that same freedom does not extend to us."

Irrelevant. Burden is on you to prove that hatred is a sin, and you can't, because:

Ecclesiastes 3:8: "A time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace."

Psalm 45:7: "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;"

Psalm 97:10: "O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked."

Psalm 119:63: "I hate and abhor falsehood, but I love your law."

Psalm 119:104: "Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way."

Psalm 139:21-22: "Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with complete hatred; I count them my enemies. "

Psalms was written by King David, a man described as being "after God's own heart".

Riddle me this: If man is not meant to hate, why does it exist as a discreet emotion? Clearly it originates from God, as it exists in God as well. This is only the tip of the iceberg of verses about good hate.

"Jesus put much emphasis on non-hatred and forgiveness of enemies."

Irrelevant and intentionally imprecise/inaccurate. Please tell me more about the Bible you haven't read, non-Christian /s. Also:

"That is why I had to "grant" the premise that hatred is not a sin."

Liar. You did it because you wanted to and now you're trying to back-rationalize it.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 3:20 PM  

Do not accuse me of moving the goalposts when it's your fault for misinterpreting my original statement. "Hatred causes wars" is not claiming that all wars are caused by hatred just like saying "smoking causes cancer" doesn't mean all cancer patients are smokers.

But hatred doesn't cause wars. That's the point. You're simply wrong. What percentage of the 1,800 largest wars in recorded human history were primarily caused by hatred and not some other cause?

Either answer the question or retract the claim.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 27, 2018 3:26 PM  

If you're trying to argue that if something CAN be misused, it should be a sin and/or should be eradicated, you're just high on retardium.

You'd have to call breathing a sin or say that it should be eradicated, by that logic.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 27, 2018 3:26 PM  

VD is correct. I don't claim to know Peterson. I was halfway playing Peterson's advocate and also meant to imply even if JBP believed certain things, he couldn't be honest without getting ruined, so difficult to know his true beliefs vs how much he craves attention, approval, mammon. Though it seems the Dark Lord has inferred accurately enough.

Blogger AbsurdityIsPeace May 27, 2018 3:54 PM  

I will raise a white flag on this issue for two reasons: for one, although VD is making solid and clear arguments against me, it seems that Azure and I are talking past each other and I find myself forced to defend points I never intended in the first place.

Secondly, as per VD's challenge, I may have to rethink the idea that hatred causes war, even though it seems so common sense.

Blogger Ghost Tiger May 27, 2018 4:15 PM  

I'm noticing that all libertarians and anarcho-capitalists love JBP because they are globalists. These guys have a nagging feeling, however, that there is some value to nationalism. They toss off the following meme frequently:

<< Like Mises, I only prefer fascists when the other choice is commies. "At least the trains run on time". >>

They toss this off as if they are superior eloi elites who will tolerate the trainworker morlocks for a little while so they can ride punctual trains until their Austrian utopia can be fully implemented. They fail to see that their utopia is the Tower of Babel because they are not believers.

Stefan Molyneux used to be one of them, but then he stumbled on the r/K selection theory, the so-called "human bio-diversity" (HBD) studies originated by Dr. J. Philippe Rushton and it set Molynuex on his road to Damascus. JBP is definitively NOT on his road to Damascus. Like all libertarians and anarcho-capitalists, JBP is obsessed with the Non-Aggression Principle. JBP's greatest fear is war, and so he desperately wants to find a way to eliminate the possibility of war, not just reduce its risk. He wants the probability of war at zero. Like me, JBP came of age during the Cold War, and like a lot of our fellow members of Generation X, JBP developed a powerful fear of global thermonuclear war in general and of the Soviet Union in particular. I have seen this profile many times in my fellow Generation X'ers. I know it well. Quincy Jones once said something profound. "All human motives can be reduced down to one of two emotions: fear and love." JBP acts on fear. Which is why he is lost and mentally ill. His fear of war overwhelms him. Indeed, as VD so eloquently put it: JBP's grand solution to war is the elimination of competing group identities. JBP wants one world, one race, one identity. JBP thinks that, in constructing the Tower of Babel, evil will be vanquished and paradise on Earth will result. One critical mistake JBP makes (among many) is his assumption that all evil comes from man. He ignores the reality of supernatural evil because he does not believe in God and so he also does not believe in the devil.

My hope for JBP is that he one day finds his faith in God and learns to love Jesus Christ. When his actions are motivated by love instead of fear, he will be a much healthier man. He'll cry a lot less. I will pray for him.

Cheers

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 5:17 PM  

I may have to rethink the idea that hatred causes war, even though it seems so common sense.

You can't stay in the abstract and argue facts. The details need to align with the abstract reasoning.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 27, 2018 5:29 PM  

Check out for a couple of hours to go to Mass and miss the fun.

As Vox said, you have it exactly backwards. War causes hate.

Blogger tublecane May 27, 2018 5:44 PM  

@2- "What could Peterson have been thinking?"

Difficult to say, but here are a few options:

1). He wasn't thinking.

2). He somehow developed a ridiculously large intellectual blindspot

3). He's a liar.

Blogger Lovekraft May 27, 2018 5:55 PM  

A quote from an article over at counter-currents (extensive resource of academic alt-right political philosopy/theory) that may contribute somewhat to VD's comment about the dangers of science/technology:

"Guénon decried all forms of progressivism, and upheld the teachings found in many of the world’s religious traditions which teach that, contrary to the modern view, civilizations begin in a state of perfection and then gradually decay into degeneracy, and that the forms of technical and scientific progress that modern man is so proud of are in fact mere illusions, and that while he gains greater power over the material world, man is in fact becoming weaker and sicker in a physical and spiritual sense."

Tech/science used as a surrogate or to prop up modern weakened man?

https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/05/what-would-evola-do-2/#more-82639

Blogger Dirk Manly May 27, 2018 9:11 PM  

@6

" One cannot do that with myths, we cannot say evil is good, or that God and the Devil reverse places. As the Bible has shown, a lot of what is considered myth is objective history."

Indeed, the passage in Genesis, which tells about angels taking human females for wives, and the offspring being "giants" who were "men of reknown" indicates that Greek mythology -- both the Titans and the Olympians, are probably fairly accurate accounts some of the nonsense going on which caused God to want to destroy everyone and everything in a flood.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 27, 2018 9:14 PM  

@13

"So, I guest you don't want to invite him in your next Darkstream?"

Why not!?!?!? It would be a real hoot!

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