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Wednesday, May 23, 2018

Italy turns against EU

The Euroskeptic parties Movimento 5 Stelle and La Lega are taking control of the Italian government:
Italians threaten to defy EU rules by kicking out 500,000 immigrants, tearing up spending plans and forging links with Russia

Last week the parties said they would renegotiate EU rules that require migrants to be dealt with by the first country they arrive in. They also pledged to build more detention centres and review the policy of rescuing migrants whose boats capsize. Italy has been on the front line of the EU’s migrant crisis, with hundreds of thousands making the journey across the Mediterranean from North Africa.

Lega leader Matteo Salvini has said an estimated 500,000 undocumented migrants in Italy must be deported ‘as a priority’. He told supporters he would rid the country of ‘delinquents’. The parties have also warned they will ignore Brussels rules on spending designed to prevent another eurozone crisis. They reject what they call the EU’s ‘austerity’ measures and want to renegotiate Italy’s debts.

Luigi Di Maio, the Five Star leader, said money to fund tax cuts would be found through investments and upcoming negotiations on the EU budget.
Euroskepticism has been on the rise throughout Italy since the Euro was forced on the country. Now the nationalists of both Left and Right have come to power even earlier than expected by virtue of joining forces. And once other Europeans see how the Italians improve their quality of life without migrants and Eurocrats, I expect they will follow suit.

Nationalists need to learn from the Italian example that an opponent from the other side of the political spectrum is not necessarily an enemy, unlike the globalists, who are the enemies of every nation.

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75 Comments:

Blogger Lazarus May 23, 2018 5:49 AM  

I am hard-pressed to think of any lefty nationalists in the USA....anyone?

Blogger Wanderer May 23, 2018 5:57 AM  

@1 Black nationalists? La Raza?

Blogger VD May 23, 2018 5:58 AM  

There are no real leftist nationalists in the USA due to the civic nationalism that is predominant there. No Asian or European countries are seriously civic nationalist.

Blogger Brett baker May 23, 2018 6:14 AM  

So, Machiavelli's dream realized?

Blogger Brett baker May 23, 2018 6:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 6:16 AM  

If they appear they'll appear via the 99% vs 1% path.

Otherwise they'll just be known as nationalists.

Blogger Dire Badger May 23, 2018 6:21 AM  

VD wrote:There are no real leftist nationalists in the USA due to the civic nationalism that is predominant there. No Asian or European countries are seriously civic nationalist.

Sweden and Britain aren't serious? Or they aren't European?

Blogger The Kurgan May 23, 2018 6:26 AM  

Italians are more rabidly tribal than nationalist.
Except for a few brainwashed commies and boomers who aspire to civic nationalism in theory and in voting, but invariably become rabidly tribal when their own stuff gets redistributed.

Blogger tz May 23, 2018 6:36 AM  

@1 Check out the more progressive and even socialist wing of the Democrats. The Hillary/Swamp wing got and gets more airplay, but the primaries tell a different story, as I expect the midterms will also (the GOP is undergoing the same transformation).

There isn't enough "free" to go around so the left has to choose the identies, and are losing the citizenry, even if they are the welfare people in the inner cities - they don't want the peacock issues (e.g. gay rights) nor the other groups like Illegals to displace them, and Latinos are displacing Blacks in many places in California. Worse, Blacks that have lived on the plantation in Minnesota can see they are being supplanted by Somali muslim "refugees".

It is still about the economy and jobs, and the Unions are still marginally aligned with the Democrats and are leftist, but don't want their jobs going to China, and have noticed how Silicon Valley suppresses workers.

The split now is between the globalist elite swamp and the nationalist, populist people.

Globalism declared war on the US people. It wasn't a hot or cold war, but a war of infiltration so our Campuses are all far left, we have illegal and refugees, and the elites are one big club with figureheads like Jeb! or Clinton or Pelosi. Even Schumer is having problems since Trump is delivering on the Iran Deal and Israel.

The term for the equivalent of the "Cuckservative" on the left has not been coined, perhaps "Globeral"? But the phenomenon is real, especially since the magic spell is gone with Obama. And they see Obamacare in the actual, real-world death spiral of increasing cost with narrowing choices, so can't keep the illusion of some theoretical fix - while VA shows what "single payer" really is.

Globalism is not Socialism. Or to the extent it is, it means we and sub-saharan Africa should have identical wealth.

Globalism isn't "free markets" either considering the lengthy regulations. Apparently even Putin is banning GMOs and wishes to become the #1 organic food producer in the world, but I'm looking to second source the article.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 23, 2018 6:42 AM  

Unionists/working class, will go for ethnicity over class, with the right incentives, as Trump implicitly showed in 2016. Fighting for better pay and conditions in third world countries has no appeal when you then have to help train your replacement.

Blogger VD May 23, 2018 6:43 AM  

The term for the equivalent of the "Cuckservative" on the left has not been coined

A Cuckeral, obviously. And then, we have the Classical Cuckerals.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 23, 2018 6:47 AM  

A Cuckeral, obviously.

I was thinking Gliberal.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 7:05 AM  

"Globalism is not Socialism."

True, but Socialism has to be a Globalism. Even the early commies knew that.

If we're going to peel lefties, they aren't going to be the ones committed to comm/soc.

Blogger Sillon Bono May 23, 2018 7:16 AM  

VD wrote:The term for the equivalent of the "Cuckservative" on the left has not been coined

A Cuckeral, obviously. And then, we have the Classical Cuckerals.


I've always loved "Leftard" I think it defines anyone on the left perfectly, we need to somehow mix Cuck and Leftard.

Cuckeral sounds too close to "General" Imho.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 23, 2018 7:16 AM  

There's no avoiding socialists tendencies under universal suffrage. Pay them off. Particularly boomers. Generous pensions to vote anti immigrant nationalist. By the time the crash comes, half of them will have passed away and hopefully, immigrant levels will have dropped, with many self deporting.

Blogger Miguel May 23, 2018 7:18 AM  

I still think the leftist party will backstab the Italians,but this is a step in the right direction.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 7:47 AM  

"Pay them off."

The problem there is that you automatically lose the fight as soon as the next group along starts asking "How u justify pay them but not us?"

It's the type of self-serving gravy train that only ends when the parasites are burned off of it.

Blogger insight May 23, 2018 7:55 AM  

"I still think the leftist party will backstab the Italians,but this is a step in the right direction."

You know it. The right nationalists will just have to check their hypergamy/shit tests and stay focused.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 23, 2018 8:00 AM  

It's the type of self-serving gravy train that only ends when the parasites are burned off of it.

That would be the baked into the cake crash part. People may want to get on the gravy train, but it will go off the rails anyways. It's ruthlessly pragmatic, but, as I said, how else are we going to get immigrant numbers to zero and reversing, absent war? Nationalist will get blamed for the crash and/or the war anyway.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 8:05 AM  

Sillon Bono wrote:I've always loved "Leftard" I think it defines anyone on the left perfectly, we need to somehow mix Cuck and Leftard.

Cuck and leftard? Custard!

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"Pay them off."

The problem there is that you automatically lose the fight as soon as the next group along starts asking "How u justify pay them but not us?"


Once you start paying the danegeld, you will never be rid of the dane.

Blogger Peter Gent May 23, 2018 8:16 AM  

Re: Cuck and leftard? Custard!
LeCucstard

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 23, 2018 8:18 AM  

The problem with the left/right binary is that it oversimplifies the historic economic and political distinctions in play. The most complete political continuum is the individual/collective axis, which correlates to unfettered "free" enterprise/communism economically. But we all recognize some tribal/national "collectivism" is necessary, so the practical distinction becomes how much? Enter the national socialisms: maximal central planning and redistribution within a smaller collective. They don't work, but when has that been an obstacle?

The dropping of the globalist mask has clarified the primary opposition along nationalist/NWO lines and has made the socialist compromise untenable even hypothetically. If 5 Stelle to betray the country, they would have to drop their nationalist guise, which is their base. Trump's popularity with union labor is another example of this realignment. It's been called here for a long time, but the nationalist/globalist split is the binary that matters most. We can argue tax and social policy after we've secured our nations.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 23, 2018 8:22 AM  

It simple numbers, we have to use the numbers while we still have super majorities. I'm talking about blatantly nativist policy, not a free for all.

Blogger 罗臻 May 23, 2018 8:23 AM  

Pay them off. The currency is fried either way. U.S. is on target for $2 trillion deficits in the 2020s in normal years, let alone recessions. Plus you'd be surprised how cheap votes can be.

Blogger Peaceful Poster May 23, 2018 8:25 AM  

Hey VD,

What do you make of these "Mini-Bots" that are being proposed in Italy?

For those who might not have heard of them, Mini-Bots would be basically small denomination T-Bills that would be printed and used as a form of parallel currency alongside the euro, although not officially legal tender.

If it works, Italy would regain it's monetary sovereignty without running afoul of EU constraints.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 8:29 AM  

Peter Gent wrote:Re: Cuck and leftard? Custard!

LeCucstard


Sounds very eurotrash. The SJWs might find it attractive-sounding.

Blogger Nostromo May 23, 2018 8:56 AM  

Globo-homo.

The Italian left will most certainly stab Italy in the back. Just ask the scorpion. It's what they do.

Blogger 罗臻 May 23, 2018 8:57 AM  

Mini-BOTs are euros if backed by ECB, otherwise lira.

Blogger SDaly May 23, 2018 9:03 AM  

I read yesterday, but can't re-find the article, that the Italian coalition is putting a "rethinking" of rescuing migrants at sea on the table.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2018 9:23 AM  

Whether the Left stings the Right on this one will not matter long-term, as the current direction will continue (anti-immigrant/no Africans). It will strengthen and win despite various FUD.

Good news though!

Blogger pyrrhus May 23, 2018 9:40 AM  

Great news for Italy, if these leaders can avoid caving in to EU bribes and threats..Greece was betrayed by its leaders, for example.

Blogger Gordon Scott May 23, 2018 9:47 AM  

Is George Soros still paying for Greenpeace et al to taxi the imvaders from 100 yards offshore Libya to Italy? Perhaps the French could dust off the plans they used to sink the enviro ships that were interfering with their nuclear testing.

Blogger wreckage May 23, 2018 9:49 AM  

@27, they're all Trotskyists. Globalism is wired into every cell in their bodies.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 10:17 AM  

Uncle John's Band wrote:The most complete political continuum is the individual/collective axis, which correlates to unfettered "free" enterprise/communism economically.
No it's not.
I know Libertardians say it is all the time, but they believe the NAP would lead to a moral and just society, so you can't give them any credence.

Blogger Jew613 May 23, 2018 11:18 AM  

So the Italian government is acting for Italian interests. It's crazy how surreal this feels. May they go from strength to strength and drive the EU out.

Blogger James Dixon May 23, 2018 11:19 AM  

> True, but Socialism has to be a Globalism. Even the early commies knew that.

I don't think that's a given. Both the Nazis and the Facists were socialists, and neither were globalists. But yes, the war for the left has been conclusively won by the communists, and all of modern the left is now communist and therefore globalist, whether they recognize it or not.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 11:19 AM  

Uncle John's Band wrote:The problem with the left/right binary is that it oversimplifies the historic economic and political distinctions in play. The most complete political continuum is the individual/collective axis,

Jerry Pournelle came up with a two-axis system which seemed to be enough to allow us to separate things that are different circa 1963.

Is ``attitude toward state'' and ``attitude toward reason'' sufficient to place one on the globalist vs. nationalist spectrum? It seems to me that any position on Jerry's graph could have globalist or nationalist occupants, so a third axis might be necessary.

I think any single-axis system is going to give ridiculous results for at least some cases.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 11:31 AM  

Any system, with any number of axes, only tells you who the person who developed the system considers his enemies.

Blogger James Dixon May 23, 2018 11:33 AM  

> Is ``attitude toward state'' and ``attitude toward reason'' sufficient to place one on the globalist vs. nationalist spectrum? It seems to me that any position on Jerry's graph could have globalist or nationalist occupants, so a third axis might be necessary.

Dickson's classic faith, reason, courage divide from the Childe Cycle seems like it might be an appropriate three axis map.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 11:49 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Any system, with any number of axes, only tells you who the person who developed the system considers his enemies.

You need to be able to draw a separating hyperplane between you and your enemies. For Jerry, those two axis did the trick, but that was 1963 and globalissm wasn't so blatant.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 11:57 AM  

James Dixon wrote:Dickson's classic faith, reason, courage divide from the Childe Cycle seems like it might be an appropriate three axis map.

Going back to Snidely's Critique, does it let us differentiate us from our enemies, and our enemies from one another in a useful manner? Can those three separate atheist Alt-Right from atheist Left (maybe) or Nationalist Socialist from Globalist Socialist (maybe not)?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 23, 2018 12:04 PM  

Any taxonomy, classification or measurement is only useful in that it accurately describes reality.

Blogger peppermint May 23, 2018 12:33 PM  

Cuckgressive. A decade ago people called progressives took over the Ds in the way the alt-right is currently taking over the Rs. This is pure D&C though, since all Ds were really on board with the agenda in principle if not in practice. It might be fun to larp as a resurgent Blue Dog calling progs cuckgressives and making centrist demands.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 23, 2018 12:38 PM  

34. Snidely Whiplash

I could be clearer. There are two separate problems: false binaries and binaries in general. The former opposes things that aren’t opposites (Communism/Nazism); the latter assumes opposite poles can even be assigned to complex things.

Individualism/collectivism is logical binary internally; it just doesn’t capture the reality. I agree the NAP is as realistic a foundation as true Marxism. So in practical terms, the preeminent split is nationalism/globalism, since nationalism is grounded in reality.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 12:39 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Any taxonomy, classification or measurement is only useful in that it accurately describes reality.
Any political taxonomy is by definition a gross oversimplification. The question is whether it is useful in terms of achieving political goals.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 12:45 PM  

Uncle John's Band wrote:So in practical terms, the preeminent split is nationalism/globalism, since nationalism is grounded in reality.
The split is, as always, on the points of controversy. Where's there's no divergence of competing political interests, there is by definition no axis.
40 years ago, the vast majority of pro-lifers were what used to be called Catholic Labor Democrats. The split that ensued within the Democrat Party can not be usefully described by any of the axes proposed so far. People like my mother were New Deal Liberal in their politics, theoretically the core of the Democrat party by any measure, economics, collectivism, etc. But there emerged a huge split between the Free Love Socialists and the Catholic Labor Democrats. Could your proposed axis describe that or provide a useful frame for understaning it?

Blogger Ceerilan May 23, 2018 1:26 PM  

You can't have a single currency cover an area with many different monetary policies. Either the austere countries will have their hard earned cash devalued or the spendthrift countries will go bankrupt. You see this with Greece in the EU and Illinois in the US.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 23, 2018 1:34 PM  

In the US the Fed(s) have turned devaluation into an engine of conquest.

The EU wants to do the same but is trammeled by national constitutions that forbid it and nationalist sentiments that fight it.

They need a civil war to fully establish the power of Brussels.

Blogger Patria May 23, 2018 1:35 PM  

Italians are big talkers... but never do anything.

Blogger Niimpänäimpä May 23, 2018 1:47 PM  

Vox could do some digging. My hypothesis is that the italian Movimento 5 Stelle and french En Marche are a part of the allowed opposition in Europe. 'Liike nyt' is being launched in Finland supposedly as a fake opposition for the national coalition party and has already connections with the Movimento 5 Stelle. There is a analogy with "Vox Day Exposes Jordan Peterson And The Left’s Plan To Take Control Of The Nationalist Movement."

Blogger eyeslevel May 23, 2018 2:10 PM  

Prime Minister pick approved by President Mattarella. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/giuseppe-conte-given-mandate-to-be-next-italian-pm-1.3505977

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 2:11 PM  

Patria wrote:Italians are big talkers... but never do anything.
Never is a very large set of data points. Ask Boudicca about the Italians.

Blogger eyeslevel May 23, 2018 2:14 PM  

The Italy situation highlights an issue nationalist face worldwide when they take power: they will be inheriting massive debt loads run up by anti-whites in power for their purposes. The presence of this debt really ties their hands. What to do about the debt? Make the people who benefited from it pay it? That would be great if feasible.

Blogger seeingsights May 23, 2018 2:15 PM  

I think 5 star is a genuine anti-establishment party. Evidence: the financial markets don't like the policy proposals of 5 Star. Sort of like when the markets had a temper trantum right after Brexit.
But I am suspicious about En Marche. It seemed that Macron came out of nowhere--I mean, I don't recall seeing his name mentioned two years before the French election, while others like Le Pen were in the media. Big business and the globalists in France saw that the incumbent was likely to lose so they put up En Marche.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 2:19 PM  

"I don't think that's a given. Both the Nazis and the Facists were socialists, and neither were globalists."

Not quite what I mean. I mean that Stalin/Lenin/Trotsky etc. were all aware that communism and/or socialism would never work as long as capitalism was going on somewhere in the world. They knew pretty much before they started that it was whole world or no future.

"or Nationalist Socialist from Globalist Socialist (maybe not)?"

This is also why the NatSocs were imperialists from day one. Whole world (eventually) or bust.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 2:28 PM  

I work mostly with people in Europe. At today's stand-up, one of the Germans mentioned that Germany has a flood of Britons applying for citizenship, worried about Brexit.

Good riddance.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 2:52 PM  

eyeslevel wrote:The Italy situation highlights an issue nationalist face worldwide when they take power: they will be inheriting massive debt loads run up by anti-whites in power for their purposes. The presence of this debt really ties their hands. What to do about the debt?

Look into odious debt. What you are talking about surely qualifies. Simply repudiating the debt run up by the pro-rapefugee administrations is probably optimal.

Blogger Robert What? May 23, 2018 2:56 PM  

Vox, it is clear that the "elites" want to replace the native Europeans with Muslim and African migrants. But the thing I don't understand is: what's in it for the "elites"? How do they benefit from this displacement?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 3:24 PM  

"ut the thing I don't understand is: what's in it for the "elites"? How do they benefit from this displacement?"

They believe that dumber people will never "notice", for one.

Primarily though, the elites want to plunder -- correction, enslave -- the world, and strong nations provide stability even beyond their borders that makes that difficult. They just want to destroy the strong man so they can enslave everyone on Earth.

Adulterating and/or squeezing the strong races out of existence accomplishes that.

Blogger Niimpänäimpä May 23, 2018 3:52 PM  

Are we right if we consider the market as a nonpartisan actor? Is it not possible to manipulate the market to suit the narrative; "look what the market tells us, brexit is bad."

Blogger DonReynolds May 23, 2018 4:03 PM  

There must be something in the historical experience of our Latin friends, most especially the Italians and the Spanish, that makes rule-breaking widely acceptable. To them, it seems, only suckers play by the rules.

Is it because both the Spanish and the Italians have had their own empire in the past? Is it the overwhelming influence of the Roman Catholic church, or the lack of any Protestant influence? I am not enough of a historian to psycho-splain why national character is determined by historical facts. What must be easily observed is the fact that the Germans and the British are much more dependent on rules and insist the rules actually apply. The British seem to still feel that there are privileged individuals who should be able (though not encouraged) to break the rules that commonly apply. The Germans...not so much.

Maybe there is something in the Mediterranean waters that enables Latin and Greek alike to have little regard for following the rules. Maybe the EU is just another manifestation of the Holy Roman Empire, dominated by the Franks. Maybe the EU will have the most difficulty where the national governments are historically weak and where regional identity is still fairly strong within those countries.

Anonymous Anonymous May 23, 2018 4:32 PM  

"ut the thing I don't understand is: what's in it for the "elites"? How do they benefit from this displacement?"

Any time there is a transfer of wealth/handouts they put themselves in place to get a cut.

A 55IQ illiterate HIV+ somali moslem refusegee contributes more to the US economy than an average family practice Dr. The $8,000 of jew priced HIV meds it takes each month enrich them & (((they))) control where rapefugees get dumped giving control of real estate markets.

OT: Wetback dyke DNC pic for Texas Governor http://www.towleroad.com/2018/05/lupe-valdez/

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 23, 2018 5:17 PM  

"Is it not possible to manipulate the market to suit the narrative; "look what the market tells us, brexit is bad."

It's possible. It requires a lot of government interference and/or protectionism racketry though.

Blogger eyeslevel May 23, 2018 5:29 PM  

Ominous Cowherd, that debt is held by pension funds, backs bank deposits, is held directly and indirectly by millions of ordinary citizens. JUST repudiating it would hurt the little guy.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 6:25 PM  

eyeslevel wrote:Ominous Cowherd, that debt is held by pension funds, backs bank deposits, is held directly and indirectly by millions of ordinary citizens. JUST repudiating it would hurt the little guy.

It's not possible to meet all of the obligations the US government has taken on. I'm not saying not easy, or not practical, I'm saying not possible. Default is unavoidable. The question is not whether to repudiate, it's who gets screwed by repudiating what.

Blogger Pale Male May 23, 2018 6:26 PM  

eyeslevel wrote:What to do about the debt? Make the people who benefited from it pay it? That would be great if feasible.
Speaking with tongue FIRMLY in cheek, why not a debt-for-equity swap?  Package up the banksters, browns and blacks as corpus-backed securities, and give those useless ones to the holders of the odious debt as sole payment.

If nobody wants the B,B&B's, well, neither do we.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2018 7:02 PM  

Pale Male wrote:Package up the banksters, browns and blacks as corpus-backed securities, and give those useless ones to the holders of the odious debt as sole payment.

I'm sure China would take them as payment for the debt they hold. China has a big market for human organs, after all.

Blogger eyeslevel May 23, 2018 8:11 PM  

Another thing about debt in the US. The 14th Amendment Sec. 4 "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2018 8:56 PM  

eyeslevel wrote:Another thing about debt in the US. The 14th Amendment Sec. 4 "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."
So what? If it can be paid, it will be. If it cannot be paid, it will not be If it can appear to be paid by means of crashing the economy, that's the likeliest path.
Before hyper-inflation, the German national debt came to something like 4BB dollars. After hyperinflation, it came to less than 100.

Blogger eyeslevel May 23, 2018 11:49 PM  

So what? So just talking about debt repudiation could be construed as unconstitutional.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 24, 2018 1:35 AM  

"So just talking about debt repudiation could be construed as unconstitutional."

We've got a joker in here.

The constitution can't change reality, buddy.

And that's even after we (falsely) assume that our country operates according to it.

Blogger Fernando Negro May 26, 2018 5:48 PM  

The "Five Star Movement" is controlled opposition.

Daniel Estulin (who is still a Russian intelligence officer, and receives information from the FSB) has even posted, on his Twitter account, a short message exchange between Beppe Grillo and a Masonic superior giving orders to the former.

(I can't find now the tweet in question - but, it was made maybe some 3 years ago? - https://twitter.com/EstulinDaniel - Anyway, Estulin replies a lot to people on his Twitter account. And, anyone can try to ask him about this.)

A lot of political parties and movements here, in Europe, are controlled opposition (https://journal-neo.org/2015/07/03/what-stinks-about-varoufakis-and-the-whole-greek-mess/) And, concerning "Podemos" in Spain, for example, it's quite easy to find on the Internet Estulin's denunciation of its Masonic connection: http://www.alertadigital.com/2015/09/04/daniel-estulin-podemos-es-una-asociacion-creada-y-financiada-por-la-masoneria/

Blogger Fernando Negro May 26, 2018 11:45 PM  

I really don't like to claim important things without presenting the proofs of it. And, because I was "shadow banned" on Twitter, I refuse to use that social network again to ask things to Estulin. But, also because it's something important for the author of this blog, I will continue to try to find the tweet about the Masonic connection to the "Five Star Movement" - and, if I find it, I'll post the link to it here.

But, anyway, the only political party in Italy, that I know of, that is seriously anti-EU, is the "Lega Nord" (Northern League), that wants a federal/decentralized Italian state.

They were the ones who invited Daniel Estulin for an historical speech in the European Parliament, denouncing the Bilderbergers and the likes (https://twitter.com/EstulinDaniel/status/955446119814672384 + http://web.archive.org/web/20111206233321/http://www.danielestulin.com:80/2011/12/04/daniel-estulin-speech-at-european-parliament-1122011).

Blogger Fernando Negro May 27, 2018 1:09 AM  

Oops... I did find the tweet I was looking for. But, the reason I couldn't find it initially, was because I interpreted it wrongly... :|

Not being Italian myself - and, this being one of many things I read about - I mistook "Beppe Grillo" for "Bergoglio", when I first read the following tweet, 3 years ago - and so, I read/interpreted it wrongly:

https://twitter.com/EstulinDaniel/status/576152887719567361

(It was the Jesuit pope - who, in my country, is known by a different name - the one who got a call from a Masonic superior - and, not the leader of the "Five Star Movement".)

I'm *very sorry* for having posted here wrong information. It was an honest mistake.

Nevertheless, the impression I still had, after realizing my mistake, was that the "Five Star Movement" is indeed fake opposition. And, having afterwards reflected more about this, I was then able to remember correctly where I got it from...

It was the great US author and historian, who also speaks Italian, Webster Tarpley who denounced it:

http://tarpley.net/2013/02/28/demagogue-beppe-grillo-betrays-italian-voters-demands-brutal-energy-austerity/
http://tarpley.net/2013/03/27/italian-reactionary-demagogue-beppe-grillo-exposed-as-tool-of-state-department-goldman-sachs/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFDsCXLgKMU

What a curious mixture, then... To have the real anti-establishment "La Lega" in a coalition with the fake anti-establishment "Five Star Movement"... Let's see what happens.

Blogger Fernando Negro May 28, 2018 10:00 PM  

Also, nevertheless,

I was right about assuming there was a Masonic connection also to the "Five Star Movement".

As denounced yesterday by Russian FSB agent, Daniel Estulin, current leader Luigi Di Maio receives orders from the Masonry:

https://twitter.com/EstulinDaniel/status/1001260642202828800

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