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Saturday, May 26, 2018

Jordanetics confirmed

Of all the words of screen and pen
The most bitter: Vox was right again.

"Jordanetics confirmed. Vox Day was right."
- Rollo Tomassi

A colleague with whom Jordan Peterson lived for months, whom Peterson himself describes as "Bernie Schiff, my good friend", confirms that the man is an unethical lunatic with delusions of grandiosity:
I met Jordan Peterson when he came to the University of Toronto to be interviewed for an assistant professorship in the department of psychology. His CV was impeccable, with terrific references and a pedigree that included a PhD from McGill and a five-year stint at Harvard as an assistant professor.

We did not share research interests but it was clear that his work was solid. My colleagues on the search committee were skeptical — they felt he was too eccentric — but somehow I prevailed. (Several committee members now remind me that they agreed to hire him because they were “tired of hearing me shout over them.”) I pushed for him because he was a divergent thinker, self-educated in the humanities, intellectually flamboyant, bold, energetic and confident, bordering on arrogant. I thought he would bring a new excitement, along with new ideas, to our department.

He joined us in the summer of 1998. Because I liked him, and also because I had put myself on the line for him, I took him under my wing. I made sure he went up for promotion to associate professor the following year, as the hiring committee had promised, and I went to the dean to get him a raise when the department chairperson would not.

When he was renovating his house I invited his family to live with mine. For five months, they occupied the third floor of our large house. We had meals together in the evening and long, colourful conversations. There, away from campus, I saw a man who was devoted to his wife and his children, who were lovely and gentle and for whom I still feel affection. He was attentive and thoughtful, stern and kind, playful and warm. His wife, Tammy, appeared to be the keel, the ballast and the rudder, and Jordan ran the ship. I could not imagine him without her, and indeed I see that she is now with him wherever in the world he goes.

On campus, he was as interesting as I had expected him to be. His research on alcoholism, and then personality, was solid, but his consuming intellectual interests lay elsewhere. He had been an undergraduate in political science in Edmonton, where he had become obsessed with the Cold War. He switched to psychology in order to understand why some people would, as he once told me, destroy everything — their past, their present and their future — because of strong beliefs. That was the subject of his first book, Maps of Meaning, published in 1999, and the topic of his most popular undergraduate course.

He was, however, more eccentric than I had expected. He was a maverick. Even though there was nothing contentious about his research, he objected in principle to having it reviewed by the university research ethics committee, whose purpose is to protect the safety and well-being of experiment subjects.

He requested a meeting with the committee. I was not present but was told that he had questioned the authority and expertise of the committee members, had insisted that he alone was in a position to judge whether his research was ethical and that, in any case, he was fully capable of making such decisions himself. He was impervious to the fact that subjects in psychological research had been, on occasion, subjected to bad experiences, and also to the fact that both the Canadian and United States governments had made these reviews mandatory. What was he doing! I managed to make light of this to myself by attributing it to his unbridled energy and fierce independence, which were, in many other ways, virtues. That was a mistake.

Another thing to which I did not give sufficient concern was his teaching. As the undergraduate chair, I read all teaching reviews. His were, for the most part, excellent and included eyebrow-raising comments such as “This course has changed my life.” One student, however, hated the course because he did not like “delivered truths.” Curious, I attended many of Jordan’s lectures to see for myself.

Remarkably, the 50 students always showed up at 9 a.m. and were held in rapt attention for an hour. Jordan was a captivating lecturer — electric and eclectic — cherry-picking from neuroscience, mythology, psychology, philosophy, the Bible and popular culture. The class loved him. But, as reported by that one astute student, Jordan presented conjecture as statement of fact. I expressed my concern to him about this a number of times, and each time Jordan agreed. He acknowledged the danger of such practices, but then continued to do it again and again, as if he could not control himself.
The fact that Peterson's colleague is a left-wing freakshow himself doesn't mean that his observations about Peterson are unfounded. To the contrary, we should be concerned that even the freakshows are beginning to realize that the Crazy Christ is unhinged.

Remember, this guy not only carried water for Peterson, but materially helped him with his career.

Labels: ,

108 Comments:

Blogger paul b. May 26, 2018 1:29 PM  

Ultimately, you serve the Left just as much as the everyone involved in the writing of that article. If I am to be charitable, I would say that the difference is that you not a willing servant. Less charitable concerning your morality, but still preferable concerning your intellect, would be an accusation of your being a trickster - I wouldn't overestimate you so tho. Most likely thing in this case tho, is that you are governed by your emotions and short-term personal goals.

Blogger Bogey May 26, 2018 1:31 PM  

The most telling piece of the article. "He wanted to buy a church"!?

"I assumed that it was for a new home — there was a trend in Toronto of converting religious spaces, vacant because of their dwindling congregations, into stylish lofts — but he corrected me. He wanted to establish a church, he said, in which he would deliver sermons every Sunday."

Blogger Steve May 26, 2018 1:35 PM  

But Mercer, he reflected, isn't a human being; he evidently is an archetypal entity from the stars, superimposed on our culture by a cosmic template. At least that's what I've heard people say; that's what Mr. Sloat says, for instance. And Hannibal Sloat would know.

Blogger Athanasius Pernath May 26, 2018 1:42 PM  

Self-proclaimed Alt-Right thinker treats shitlib slander as the Word of God... This same article was also reposted, with an attitude identical to your own, on the likes of Mother Jones. Vox Day sure is in nice company here.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 1:46 PM  

Ultimately, you serve the Left just as much as the everyone involved in the writing of that article. If I am to be charitable, I would say that the difference is that you not a willing servant. Less charitable concerning your morality, but still preferable concerning your intellect, would be an accusation of your being a trickster - I wouldn't overestimate you so tho. Most likely thing in this case tho, is that you are governed by your emotions and short-term personal goals.

Always nice to hear from the low-IQ Peterson-defending gammas. Peterson serves the Left, not me. The more fools like you that drink his Kool-Aid, the fewer defenders of the West there will be.

Self-proclaimed Alt-Right thinker treats shitlib slander as the Word of God

It's not slander. It's precisely the same stuff that I have independently observed. Do you seriously not see the link between his evil philosophy and his outrageous claim that he is not answerable to a government-mandated ethics committee?

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 1:47 PM  

Vox Day sure is in nice company here.

Jordan Peterson is in the company of MK Ultra, Harvard University, Jacob Zuma, the UN, and George Soros. I'll take Mother Jones over that.

Blogger Edward Isaacs May 26, 2018 1:47 PM  

@1 not an argument.
@4 not an argument.

C'mon guys, you're making this too easy. It's almost like you "self-proclaimed Alt-Right thinkers" are "governed by your emotions and short-term personal goals."

Blogger The Service May 26, 2018 1:51 PM  

Vox has demonstrated very effectively that there is indeed something unhinged about Peterson. Most damningly, Peterson really does seem to be controlled opposition for the Globalists.

But it’s very hard to reconcile Peterson’s charisma and energy—which were apparently present in abundance even in the early days of his career—with the notion that he is a Gamma.

Perhaps Peterson was a Gamma in his youth. But he sure seems to have transcended that profile, at least in his public performances.

Can a true Gamma really be such a compelling and charismatic figure?

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 1:53 PM  

"Can a true Gamma really be such a compelling and charismatic figure?"

I direct you to Hollywood and several of the leading men to come out of that industry since it's inception.

Blogger S1AL May 26, 2018 1:55 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger S1AL May 26, 2018 1:56 PM  

"Can a true Gamma really be such a compelling and charismatic figure?"

The 'literally Hitler' parallels are starting to become a little uncanny.

Blogger insight May 26, 2018 1:56 PM  

"He wanted to establish a church, he said, in which he would deliver sermons every Sunday."

No need anymore he's got a bigger platform/pulpit now to expand his cult of personality.

Blogger Lyon May 26, 2018 1:58 PM  

"Jordan presented conjecture as statement of fact."

I suspect that is Jordan Peterson's Achilles Heel. It is so for most intellectuals. Inferring without sufficient evidence.

@1. paul b. above, you are passive aggressive in your effete and clichéd comment (...incidentally, you also mangled it).

"Ultimately, you serve the Left just as much as the everyone involved in the writing of that article."

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 2:01 PM  

Can a true Gamma really be such a compelling and charismatic figure?

Without question. Remember, he is a creature. Look at some of his earlier videos. The "haunted prophet" motif he's utilizing is a relatively recent development.

Gammas can be very extroverted and energetic. See: John Scalzi. They go through manic phases.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 26, 2018 2:07 PM  

By defending Peterson, you are defending your own genocide, you pathetic morons.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 2:17 PM  

"Do you seriously not see the link between his evil philosophy and his outrageous claim that he is not answerable to a government-mandated ethics committee?"

Person's (reported) belief that he alone should be the source of all ethical judgements is, of course, quite consistent with the allegation that he repeatedly presented conjecture as fact (i.e. did not distinguish between his thoughts and external reality). It's the same attitude, only applied to a different area/ looked at from a different angle. Reminiscent of Comey.

Blogger Phelps May 26, 2018 2:28 PM  

It always cracks me up when leftists hold up McCarthy as someone who should be reviled. History, especially the opening of the Soviet archives after the fall of the USSR makes it plain that McCarthy was absolutely, totally right, and the people he accused of being KGB assets were in fact KGB assets. If anything, McCarthy didn't go far enough.

Blogger Lovekraft May 26, 2018 2:30 PM  

Peterson's 3-P Rule:

Plausible deniability
Position
Profit

Blogger Darwinite May 26, 2018 2:39 PM  

I’ve just started reading C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity. He roundly debunks Jordanetics - “Creative Evolution” - in chapter 2.

Blogger TCO348 May 26, 2018 2:41 PM  

I want on and read most of that article. This Bernie guy just goes on to complain about Peterson's criticism of Marxism and other far left positions. Seems like sour grapes to me. Not that I love Peterson. I just don't put much stock in this Bernie guy. He has a dog in the fight.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums May 26, 2018 2:46 PM  

This is what happens when you're a boomer, you're not red-pilled, you get some internet prominence, and have a slew of people constantly whispering in your ear that "you're the savior of western civilization": you buy a church and start a religion around your persona.

A pathological messiah complex is what your average boomer hopes to achieve someday. Once you understand Jordan "The Boomer Leaf" Peterson is just that, a typical boomer, this whole thing becomes sort of amusing.

Somebody needs to make a debate happen between Peterson and Nick Fuentes. Boomer vs Z. Gamma vs Knife.

Blogger Thomas Patecky May 26, 2018 2:46 PM  

According to the article, the author's opposition to Peterson just happened to start when he went against the gender pronoun law. And he just happens to have a transsexual daughter, which he claims has nothing to do with it but he still makes sure to mention it. I dunno if I'd consider this guy an unbiased observer...

Blogger Worlds Edge May 26, 2018 2:47 PM  

I have a trans daughter, but that was hardly an issue compared to what I felt was a betrayal of my trust and confidence in him. It was an abuse of the trust that comes with his professorial position, which I had fought for, to have misrepresented gender science by dismissing the evidence that the relationship of gender to biology is not absolute and to have made the claim that he could be jailed when, at worst, he could be fined.

I personally haven't decided where I stand vis a vis Peterson, but anybody with a transsexual "daughter" is not somebody I'm personally going to put a whole lot of stock in as an unimpeachable source. I'd likely find it more troubling if somebody like this leapt to Peterson's defense, in all honesty.

Blogger Lyon May 26, 2018 2:49 PM  

From the Toronto Star article:

“His output is voluminous and filled with oversimplifications which obscure or misrepresent complex matters in the service of a message which is difficult to pin down. He can be very persuasive, and toys with facts and with people’s emotions. I believe he is a man with a mission. It is less clear what that mission is.”

Oh, with a degree of heavy lifting, it is clear what his mission, in fact, is.

However, that effort requires certain character moorings, of which the author of the Toronto Star article, and once-upon-a-time friend of JBP, observably lacks.

The Toronto Star is an organ of our adversary. What better way to elevate the status of JBP as (faux) opposition to the lefties than to vilify him to their readers.

Blogger Mark Stoval May 26, 2018 3:00 PM  

@22

Thomas Patecky wrote:According to the article, the author's opposition to Peterson just happened to start when he went against the gender pronoun law. And he just happens to have a transsexual daughter, which he claims has nothing to do with it but he still makes sure to mention it. I dunno if I'd consider this guy an unbiased observer...

If this were the only evidence that Vox Day had offered up then I would be very skeptical, but this is just more evidence piled on top of a very big pile of evidence. Another brick in the wall.

It seems those who know him well don't think much of him.

Blogger Steampunk Koala May 26, 2018 3:02 PM  

"I need to understand how someone could destroy the world because of their beliefs. Now get out of my way you ants, quit troubling me with your mortal 'ethics'."

At least he figured it out I guess.

Blogger Steve May 26, 2018 3:06 PM  

I have a trans daughter

Imagine being such a complete failure as a father that your son wants to cut his dick off.

Blogger S'mon May 26, 2018 3:09 PM  

Have just read Schiff's whole article. He is so vile that it is impossible not to think more kindly of Peterson and think that perhaps we do need a Mad Messiah to save us from this Chaos.

Blogger Fernando Negro May 26, 2018 3:11 PM  

Jordan Peterson keeps referring to Solzhenitsyn, saying that Soviets killed an exaggerated number of people, in order to try to demonize Socialism.

Well, according to the credible investigator Daniel Estulin (http://voxday.blogspot.pt/2009/05/bilderberg-decides.html) whose own father was killed by the KGB (and that, therefore, has no interest in lying about this) Solzhenitsyn is just another Russian traitor, who fabricated lies to be used as anti-Soviet/Socialist propaganda (https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=Solzhenitsyn%20from%3AEstulinDaniel&src=typd&lang=en).

So, whether Peterson's claims are the product of ignorance or not, Peterson is perpetuating the anti-Soviet/Socialist lies created by Solzhenitsyn.

Blogger Starboard May 26, 2018 3:14 PM  

The enemy of my enemy may also be my enemy, but that does not necessarily mean that he is incorrect about my enemy.

Blogger Steve May 26, 2018 3:14 PM  

So, whether Peterson's claims are the product of ignorance or not, Peterson is perpetuating the anti-Soviet/Socialist lies created by Solzhenitsyn.

Cool story, comrade.

Blogger kh123 May 26, 2018 3:28 PM  

"...credible investigator Daniel Estulin whose own father was killed by the KGB (and that, therefore, has no interest in lying about this)..."

If the show trials of the 1920's and 1930's - and the recollections of those affected even decades after the fact - will attest to, it's the bizarre degree in which victims will continue to vomit all over themselves to protect their abusers.

TL;DR: Stockholm Syndrome's a helluva drug.

Blogger S'mon May 26, 2018 3:28 PM  

@22 "transsexual daughter" = mentally ill son, victim of at least psychological abuse by parents and by the authorities. What kind of parent boasts of creating such?

Schiff represents absolute evil. Maybe Peterson is evil too, or at least bad, but my impression - only strengthened by this article - is that Peterson came to realise that the evil of Social Justice is the same evil that killed a hundred million in the twentieth century, and that he had to oppose it by any means he could. Maybe Peterson's approach is bad; it's certainly hugely lacking in places, notably his complete rejection of ethnic identity for Europeans. Still I find it impossible not to sympathise with him.

Blogger Alphaeus May 26, 2018 3:29 PM  

There are a lot of disparate aspects to this Judeao Peterson controversy. While I might be troubled by his apparent ethical shortcomings, the real solid problem for me that I feel like I must confront and deal with strongly is the impact of his philosophy on the Western Civilization that I'm trying with VD to help save. I'm convinced that Judeao Peterson is up to no good and a definite destructive force because of certain specific aspects of his teachings, and their context. He calls the Bible myths, and he writes policy papers for the United Nations, which thing I hate. He tells right wingers who are disturbed about their nations to shut up and go clean their rooms and not worry about the fate of their countries and countrymen. He equates Marxist identity politics with the normal identification that normal people make with their ethnic brothers and sisters. He is a snake in the grass and I don't like him and I'm not surprised that he's exposed as a megalomaniac who rejects ethical accountability.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 3:30 PM  

OK, I just read the whole link. I don't think that describing Schiff as "Peterson's colleague is a left-wing freakshow himself" entirely captures the tone here. It's a well-written piece, he makes some legitimate points (and references some independently verifiable facts as well as his personal anecdotes), but the tone, the structure, and the tropes that he references are so stereotypically "(((red diaper baby))) attacks perceived enemy as anuddah Hitlah!" that's it not even funny. Could have been written by the late Steven Jay Gould, or by your average neocon (not that there's any real difference) as an attack on pretty much anyone they perceived to be a bad goy -- just plug in some different anecdotes.

Blogger S'mon May 26, 2018 3:35 PM  

@34 " I must confront and deal with strongly is the impact of his philosophy on the Western Civilization that I'm trying with VD to help save."

I get the impression that Peterson sees himself as Zarathustra, the Nietzschean Value Creator. Some of his spiel reads a lot like Alsp Sprach Zarathustra. Peterson's message is that God is Dead but there is a Truth we can gain from disemboweling the corpse, to put it uncharitably.

Having been raised an atheist, seeing how dark life is without Christian belief, I know where he's coming from.

Blogger Fernando Negro May 26, 2018 3:36 PM  

To Steve, kh123, and all:

I'm not a Communist, and neither is Daniel Estulin.

And, the reason why I have posted my observation about Solzhenitsyn, was just to show that Peterson is lying about something.

(Which, with Peterson being a knowledgeable and intelligent person, might indicate that he may actually be a conscious liar.)

Blogger kh123 May 26, 2018 3:36 PM  

"Solzhenitsyn is just another Russian traitor,"

S̶t̶a̶l̶i̶n̶'̶s̶ Devil's advocate, assuming your premise of Solzhenitsyn's lying to be true, it's worth remembering this was the same government which imprisoned and later exiled him for having written a letter. Not quite 10 years for a spool of thread, but apparently not unusual either.

To put it more rhetorically: Nevermind cited Socialist records of deaths and imprisonment during their own Revolution, here's a Tweet from Credible Investigator©.

Blogger Mac May 26, 2018 3:36 PM  

Jordan Peterson would be dangerous as a prophet.... but his philosophy (Weltanschauung rather) is not of prophetic kind, rather of self-limiting kind...
Why so serious, Vox...?
From a revolutionary point of view, Bolsheviks (more radical) were in fact minority, and Miensheviks (less radical) were in fact majority. Peterson belonging to the latter, his big following does not surprise me at all.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora May 26, 2018 3:36 PM  

I knew Peterson was nuts when I first saw him discussing symbolical interpretations with an artist named John Pageau. The ideas they bounced off each other were total conjecture which is fine but not only did they fail to seriously question each other, they acted as if their impromptu interpretations were completely true. It was like watching two pot heads brainstorming. I knew he wasn't to be taken seriously after witnessing that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 26, 2018 3:42 PM  

Fernando Negro wrote:I'm not a Communist, and neither is Daniel Estulin.


So what variety of MArxist are you?
Seriously, where did you get the idea that Solzhenitsyn is a traitor, or that he lied about the Soviets? Was your professor, excuse me, Professor, Jewish or Communist?

Blogger seeingsights May 26, 2018 3:42 PM  

I think it's clear that Jordan Peterson has s cult following.

Psychologists are pretty good at getting a devoted following. Previous examples of such psychologists are Freud, Jung, Wilhelm Reich. Then there is the guru phenomenon in India. That should not be surprising, for it is their job to study human behavior.

Blogger Steve May 26, 2018 3:43 PM  


I knew Peterson was nuts when I first saw him discussing symbolical interpretations with an artist named John Pageau.


Jungians are all mad, but that's ok.

Blogger kh123 May 26, 2018 3:45 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger kh123 May 26, 2018 3:50 PM  

Peterson's use of the evo narrative was a bit of a tip-off; the arboreal origin of snake fear in Eden, the lizard brain dictating this or that response, etc. Star Trek stuff. He's far from the only one on the right to be using it as of late, though from anybody else it's more a digression and "Ok, this is their narrative, grain of salt," not a feverish central plank to their world view.

Blogger Flair1239 May 26, 2018 4:00 PM  

Fake Right Flair, The Gamma here.

You didn’t print the part of the article where Schiff defends Marxism as a legitimate philosophy. So here you have a Marxist ( or at least Marxist symapsthiser) attacking his former colleague and we are supposed to take that at face value?

How is this different from any other Far left figure spewing their opinions as if they are fact?

Do not SJWs always lie?

So far we have seen on this blog and accompanying Vblogs Peterson labeld as. Evil, Globalist Shill, con man, possible pedophile, intellectually dishonest, and mentally unstable.

What we have not seen is the promised vivisection or “literary prison rape” of his philosophy. Although I don’t really think that thinkingnof the world In Terms of Archtypes is necessarily a philosophical endeavor as much as it is a helpfulll tool.

Now for the “unwanted advice that will be ignored” part of my comment. are you going deliver the cold blooded take down of his philosophy that you said weeks ago that you would deliver within two weeks?

Becaus I would find that interesting and enjoyable. As opposed to what you have been doing which you s simply name calling and speculating be attacks.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:07 PM  

In his defence, Jordan told me if he refused to pay the fine he could go to jail. That is not the same as being jailed for what you say, but it did ennoble him as a would-be martyr in the defence of free speech.

And if this was truly a matter of free speech he could have challenged the Human Rights Act, off-campus and much earlier, by openly using language offensive to any of the already-protected groups on that list.

This is a legit point. Essentially, Schiff is saying that in the incident that made him famous, Peterson used a hypothetical scenario to claim actual victimhood.

"I intend to do this. And if I do, then the government will imprison me."

Of course, the irony inherent in a (((Bernie Schiff))) claiming that someone else is over-dramatizing his victimhood is another story...

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 26, 2018 4:15 PM  

Why is Pedersen reminding me of Jim Jones?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:15 PM  

Schiff makes a good point here:

He characterized them as left-wing conspiracies rooted in a “murderous” ideology — Marxism. Calling Marxism, a respectable political and philosophical tradition, “murderous” conflates it with the perversion of those ideas in Stalinist Russia and elsewhere where they were...

As every intelligent person knows knows: Stalinism in general, and the blatant heresy of "socialism in one country" in particular, were evil goyishe "perversions" of the holy creed of Marx and Bronstein. Oy gevalt.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 4:17 PM  

According to the article, the author's opposition to Peterson just happened to start when he went against the gender pronoun law. And he just happens to have a transsexual daughter, which he claims has nothing to do with it but he still makes sure to mention it. I dunno if I'd consider this guy an unbiased observer...

So. What.

Sweet Darwin, but you people are unbelievably stupid! It's not Schiff's OPINION that matters at all. What matters is the FACTS that he relates, the OBSERVATIONS which are in perfect accord with what Peterson himself has written, both publicly and privately.

Do you not understand what "the genetic fallacy" is? Will you claim the sky is green if a Marxist happens to observe that it is blue? If Schiff is lying - and no one, not even Peterson, has claimed that he has - then he has chosen to tell some highly specific, weirdly precise, and incredibly minor lies.

You didn’t print the part of the article where Schiff defends Marxism as a legitimate philosophy. So here you have a Marxist ( or at least Marxist symapsthiser) attacking his former colleague and we are supposed to take that at face value?

You are far too stupid to even comment here. You're humiliating yourself. You morons think everything boils down to "who, whom". It doesn't.

Now for the “unwanted advice that will be ignored” part of my comment. are you going deliver the cold blooded take down of his philosophy that you said weeks ago that you would deliver within two weeks?

I have. You are simply too stupid to have understood it.

Becaus I would find that interesting and enjoyable. As opposed to what you have been doing which you s simply name calling and speculating be attacks.

Obviously you wouldn't. You didn't even understand it when it was all laid out right in front of you. But I'll spell it out one more time: Peterson is an insanely grandiose and evil man who believes he is beyond ethics due to understanding history in a way that no one else ever has before and that he has a mission to eliminate war by eliminating tradition and identity.

He's fucking nuts.

Blogger Jacob May 26, 2018 4:17 PM  

Pains me to say this vox but in my opinion europeans in general are going to be drawn to slugs like peterson until they feel scared. People are still generally comfortable and radical politics could get them out of said comfort. The problem is $$$ in the end.

Good thing for fiat currencies though. We're due for some economic slowdown in the near future imo.

Blogger Flair1239 May 26, 2018 4:18 PM  

Great opening statement. Now prove it.

Preferably in language that an idiot like myself can comprehend.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 26, 2018 4:23 PM  

"Great opening statement. Now prove it."

He already did.

"Preferably in language that an idiot like myself can comprehend."

You've already shown that you have a vested interest of some sort in not comprehending it, and are dishonest to boot.

Blogger Jacob May 26, 2018 4:23 PM  

Do you actually listen to his lectures?

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 4:25 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 4:27 PM  

Deleted for redundancy.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:31 PM  

I'm concerned by the undercurrent of toxic Christophobia in the Schiff piece. Some fairly subtle dogwhistles, but it's there.

Several years ago, Jordan Peterson told me he wanted to buy a church.
I assumed that it was for a new home — there was a trend in Toronto of converting religious spaces
[Clearly, this is an acceptable -- even laudable -- goal, as he would be helping in the important mission of deconstructing Christianity]
vacant because of their dwindling congregations -- but he corrected me. He wanted to establish a church, he said, in which he would deliver sermons every Sunday.


Wait: he wanted to use a church... as a church? To deliver... sermons? Clearly, this is, self-evidently, a Very Bad Thing.

Jordan exhibits a great range of emotional states, from anger and abusive speech to evangelical fierceness, ministerial solemnity

See Very Bad Thing, above.

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 4:33 PM  

"Wait: he wanted to use a church... as a church? To deliver... sermons? Clearly, this is, self-evidently, a Very Bad Thing."

You know JP isn't a Christian right?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 26, 2018 4:35 PM  

It's worth reading the whole Schiff essay. Although Schiff is undeniably a fruitcake he makes a number of insightful observations relevant to Peterson's character, intellect, and sanity. It's yet more confirmation that Peterson is a sloppy thinker with a messianic complex who owes his success primarily to his ability to bewilder audiences with flowery bullshit.

Blogger Mocheirge May 26, 2018 4:36 PM  

Irony: Vox is accused of ad hom attacks by people who dismiss Schiff's data because of who he is.

I'm not sure that people know what "ad hominem" means anymore.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 4:48 PM  

Do you actually listen to his lectures?

No. I've read a few transcripts, but mostly I rely upon his books and his letter to his father. Listening to him ramble is a waste of time once you understand what his mission is.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:48 PM  

@58. You know I'm making a point about Schiff's worldview, and not aboit Peterson per se, right?

The Peterson thing is a dead horse. I find the many ways in which Schiff runs exactly true to type to be more interesting.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 4:49 PM  

I'm concerned by the undercurrent of toxic Christophobia in the Schiff piece. Some fairly subtle dogwhistles, but it's there.

You're doing the midwit thing of focusing on the irrelevant and completely missing the significant elements.

What would Peterson be preaching since it would not be the Gospel?

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 4:51 PM  

"You know I'm making a point about Schiff's worldview, and not aboit Peterson per se, right?"

Both things can be true.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:51 PM  

Gotta give 'em credit for the layout and photography, especially that last pic of Peterson as Big Brother. Right down to the black clad, ominous-looking policeman lurking in the shadows. That's some effective visual propaganda.

https://images.thestar.com/oxpaJKaidq8i7NqcsdScHMEuaak=/605x757/smart/filters:cb(1527247987678)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/insight/2018/05/25/i-was-jordan-petersons-strongest-supporter-now-i-think-hes-dangerous/police_at_peterson_event.jpg

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 4:52 PM  

Preferably in language that an idiot like myself can comprehend.

That's the problem. I don't speak that language. See: IQ Communications Gap.

The problem is that when I say things that are absolutely facts, things that are either quoted directly or derived correctly from Peterson's own work, you claim that I'm just making a groundless assertion.

But that's not the case. It's absolutely false. And so there is clearly no point in trying to convince you of the fact that the big shiny yellow hot thing up there in the sky is the sun.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 4:55 PM  

"What would Peterson be preaching since it would not be the Gospel?"

You're missing the point. What does Schiff picture Peterson as preaching? What does Schiff fear? And what is he trying to evoke in the minds of his intended audience?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 26, 2018 4:56 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 26, 2018 4:58 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:You've already shown that you have a vested interest of some sort in not comprehending it, and are dishonest to boot.

It's difficult to get a man to comprehend something when his emotional self-conception depends on not understanding it, in some cases, not even seeing it.

@Flair
Peterson has redefined central concepts such as truth, beauty, God, good, evil all as essentially "whatever serves or doesn't serve my purposes, because my purpose is the survival of humanity, and that excuses all sins."

If you don't understand why and how this is evil, literally Satanic/Hitlerian/Maoist/Stalinist evil, then you need to go take your pills, clean your room, and tap out from the contest, because you're lost. You're an emotionally-driven, mentally ill partisan.

Blogger Thomas Howard May 26, 2018 4:59 PM  

You don't appear to understand the difference between an attack and a dismissal.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 5:00 PM  

You're missing the point. What does Schiff picture Peterson as preaching? What does Schiff fear? And what is he trying to evoke in the minds of his intended audience?

Not at all. No one gives a damn about Schiff. Schiff doesn't even know what Peterson's mission is, all he knows is that he has one. And your big "discovery" is that an atheist Canadian academic doesn't like Christianity? Wow, that's totally new and mind-blowing!

Stop trying to change the subject.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 5:02 PM  

my impression - only strengthened by this article - is that Peterson came to realise that the evil of Social Justice is the same evil that killed a hundred million in the twentieth century, and that he had to oppose it by any means he could.

Your impression is totally wrong.

Blogger lpdbw May 26, 2018 5:07 PM  

I believe the quality of paid trolls has gone up. A new infusion of Soros cash being spent to boost Jordanetics?

They are pretending to be only slightly critical of Vox, and pretend to partly agree with him, and just say he hasn't proved his case against poor Jordan, and trying to impugn his witnesses. Prior paid trolls seem to have been less subtle, trying to bury us with posts and monomaniacal fixation on specific points.

Or is it just that my standards have gone down?

In any event, there are a bunch of new usernames defending Jordanetics.

Blogger Anno Ruse May 26, 2018 5:09 PM  

VD's posts on Peterson are approaching "pls respond" levels.

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 5:16 PM  

"I believe the quality of paid trolls has gone up. A new infusion of Soros cash being spent to boost Jordanetics?"

"VD's posts on Peterson are approaching "pls respond" levels."

Nope. Same old poop.

Blogger English Tom May 26, 2018 5:20 PM  

Like a lot of people I was enamoured of Peterson when he first came on the scene. But as far as I am concerned Vox has perfectly explained the man. As I stated on a previous thread, I expect Peterson to go into politics. He is a very dangerous man and a pied piper.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 5:21 PM  


I think I see where he's going with this:

His wife, Tammy, appeared to be the keel, the ballast and the rudder, and Jordan ran the ship. I could not imagine him without her, and indeed I see that she is now with him wherever in the world he goes.

So his wife is a big influence on him; they're nearly inseparable.

Not long afterwards the following message was sent from his wife’s email address exhorting recipients to sign a petition opposing Ontario’s Bill 28. That bill proposed changing the language in legislation about families from “mother” and “father” to the gender-neutral “parents.”

And his wife is clearly a thought criminal on homo/ tranny issues by shitlib standards. Good for her. Presumably Schiff couldn't find anything that Peterson said that was "incriminating" enough to back up the homo/ tranniephobia narrative -- hence the emphasis on the inseparability and the degree of influence.

Tammy had a dream, and sometimes her dreams are prophetic. She dreamed that it was five minutes to midnight.

Peterson believes that his wife is a literal oracle , my progressive readers! You know he must secretly share his wife's crime think -- he's just too slick to say it openly.

Sneaky.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 5:24 PM  

Okay, I am convinced that my words will not convince any of the morons and midwits. So, I've put the most damning part of Maps of Meaning up in a new post, complete with my bolding the most important parts. Perhaps actually reading the man's words will help some of them understand what the lunatic is doing and why he is doing it.

Blogger Flair1239 May 26, 2018 5:31 PM  

Thank you

Blogger FP May 26, 2018 5:31 PM  

Not surprising but amusing revelations that Jordan just might have delusions of grandeur via telling off ethics committees or buying churches and preaching.

Best bit of ol' Bernie's article though:

"Following his opposition to Bill C-16, Jordan again sought to establish himself as a “warrior” and attacked identity politics and political correctness as threats to free speech. He characterized them as left-wing conspiracies rooted in a “murderous” ideology — Marxism. Calling Marxism, a respectable political and philosophical tradition, “murderous” conflates it with the perversion of those ideas in Stalinist Russia and elsewhere where they were. That is like calling Christianity a murderous ideology because of the blood that was shed in its name during the Inquisition, the Crusades and the great wars of Europe. That is ridiculous."

Says the man with a trans daughter that wants to get rid of the term fathers and mothers.

Blogger Unknown May 26, 2018 5:37 PM  

All false prophets will be recognised and outed eventually, usually by other false prophets as they know how the game works. Identity politics is a variation on the hypergamous game called 'let's you and him fight'. The falsies are the playas. The chicky in the middle is the gullible following. I sometimes hear God laughing when one false prophet relentlessly pursues another. Egg always ends up on both faces.

In other news , Kim and Moon seem to be perfectly capable of peaceful accord without the Duck, as and when the time is right. Too bad, for Nobel quackery, not Korea.

Blogger Lovekraft May 26, 2018 5:39 PM  

article from blog Men of the West about Gen Xers embracing Christianity:

A quote: "I can remember the shallow, theology-devoid devotional songs that our Boomer youth leaders foisted upon us, and we hated them (the songs, not necessarily the people). So yes, Xers did reject that nonsense, but that does not mean they turned their backs on God or the Church."

https://www.menofthewest.net/generation-x-goes-to-church/

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 5:48 PM  

@VD
And your big "discovery" is that an atheist Canadian academic doesn't like Christianity?

That's a pretty misleading way to frame it. For an old (((Trot))) like this guy, his Christophobia is merely a subset of his hatred for the goyim; his paranoia about pogroms, lampshades, and evil Stalinist wreckers, and his compulsion to subvert. It's kind of comical the way he hits all of the tropes.

Just trying to see what his narrative is, whether it's more than just the standard anuddah Hitlah! one (on the tranny/ homo issue this time), and where it fits into the larger narratve. It's largely a separate question from the truth/ falsehood of his particular claims.

The NYT party line on the "Intellectual Dark Web" (including Peterson) was, if I recall correctly, that they were "edgy" but acceptable (if barely). The absolute outer edge of the right side of the Overton Window. Yet this piece (leaving the facts aside for the moment, and looking only at the tone and the imagery), is clearly portraying Peterson as a "fascist" -- simply beyond the pale. A more "progressive" readership, I assume.

This is a typical technique in framing a false dialectic. Which would go along with your portrayal of him as controlled opposition, of course.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 26, 2018 5:48 PM  

Unknown wrote:Kim and Moon seem to be perfectly capable of peaceful accord without the Duck, as and when the time is right.
and if you ask Moon who brought this to pass, he will tell you Trump.
Jeez you're stupid.

Blogger Flair1239 May 26, 2018 5:50 PM  

Lol. Snidely I sometimes think you may be the “Morgan Mundane” to Vox’s Steve Cannon

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 6:26 PM  

Just trying to see what his narrative is

Go do it somewhere else. You're off-topic.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 6:27 PM  

Lol. Snidely I sometimes think you may be the “Morgan Mundane” to Vox’s Steve Cannon

Double Gamma tell. Amusing. Do you guys really not understand how totally transparent you are? Do you simply not grasp that your behavioral patterns alert everyone who understands the behavioral hierarchy precisely where you stand?

If you had any idea, I suspect you'd never open your mouths in public again.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 26, 2018 6:28 PM  

In Maps of Meaning, Jordan’s first book, he is exercised by the breakdown of the social order and the chaos that he believes would result. Jordan is fighting to maintain the status quo to keep chaos at bay, or so he believes. He is not a free speech warrior. He is a social order warrior.

Muh "Authoritarian Personality." Makes Peterson sound much better than he really is.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 26, 2018 6:44 PM  

Ric Flair would break you in half if he knew you were misusing his stage name.

Blogger tublecane May 26, 2018 6:56 PM  

@4- Never mind that it's probably not slanderous and no one is taking it as the Word of God. Sometimes the left is onto something. And anyway, if a guy has been hanging around leftists his entire professional life, you kinda have to go to leftists to get the straight dope. Grain of salt ready, of course.

Blogger S'mon May 26, 2018 7:25 PM  

VD: "Perhaps actually reading the man's words will help some of them understand what the lunatic is doing and why he is doing it."

I think I understand where Jordan Peterson is coming from ok. His mindset is a bit extreme but not that unfamiliar. I actually am less certain where you're coming from VD (I've not been reading this blog very long) - I was brought up atheist, can't believe in Christ although I'd like to. Your religious faith seems different from that of other Christians, and you don't talk about it. When you say Peterson is evil, I get the impression this is partly(?) for religious reasons, or is it the on-earth effect of his anti-tribal beliefs?

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 7:55 PM  

I think I understand where Jordan Peterson is coming from ok.

You don't even have a fucking clue. Jordan Peterson himself will tell you how uniquely special his thinking is, and that no one in the history of Man has ever had such thoughts.

Your religious faith seems different from that of other Christians, and you don't talk about it.

It isn't that different. I am a Nicene Creed Christian, although by that I mean the actual Nicene Creed, not the later, more common, and misnamed Niceno-Constantinian Creed. I'm just not very interested in theological speculation, which is all most theology can ever be anyhow. Paul says we see through a glass darkly and I accept that.

Blogger VD May 26, 2018 7:58 PM  

When you say Peterson is evil, I get the impression this is partly(?) for religious reasons, or is it the on-earth effect of his anti-tribal beliefs?

Peterson's philosophy is evil. Peterson himself is crazy. Literally mentally disturbed.

Blogger FUBARwest May 26, 2018 8:41 PM  

"It isn't that different. I am a Nicene Creed Christian, although by that I mean the actual Nicene Creed, not the later, more common, and misnamed Niceno-Constantinian Creed."

This blog is amazing. I learn something new every day I come here. I did not even know that there was a difference between the two. Also I had no idea that the notion of the bible being constructed and formed at the Council of Nicea was based on a fiction popularized by Voltaire of all people was a thing. I have since been corrected of both of those notions by infogalactic.

Thank you Vox for this blog and for infogalactic. If I can live a life that produces half the positive impact you do I'll die happy.

Blogger Avalanche May 26, 2018 9:02 PM  

@48 "Why is Pedersen reminding me of Jim Jones?

Because after you clean your room, you sit down (but with straight up posture) with a nice cold glass of Koolaid?

Blogger bob kek mando - ( Creepy Joe Biden always asks for consent before changing your baby's diaper ) May 26, 2018 9:15 PM  

52. Flair1239 May 26, 2018 4:18 PM
Preferably in language that an idiot like myself can comprehend.


and if the idiot in question is below the necessary comprehension level, what then?

would you demand that the explanation be made such that a Down's syndrome child could understand it?

how do i know that you're not a Down's syndrome child?

Blogger Samuel Nock May 26, 2018 9:50 PM  

Schiff says Peterson opposes free speech because he attempts to silence ... the Left. Nothing about Faith Goldy.

Also, he calls Peterson "a darling of the Alt Right", which is completely wrong-headed. Aside from Vox's criticism of Peterson, most of the Dissident Right is very dismissive of Peterson as a Pied Piper leading potentially "hard core" young men towards a milque-toast Alt Lite (at best) philosophy. I suspect Molyneux will come around on him.

Blogger S'mon May 27, 2018 2:03 AM  

Re Peterson's crazinesss, I have been listening through his interview with Sam Harris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY where in refusing truth-as-correspondence he refuses to engage with reality as it is. Facing a peer trying to nail down his thinking he definitely does come across as mentally unbalanced, whereas being interviewed by journalists he seems like a sage-guru.

Blogger S'mon May 27, 2018 2:22 AM  

VD:
>>You don't even have a fucking clue. Jordan Peterson himself will tell you how uniquely special his thinking is, and that no one in the history of Man has ever had such thoughts.<<

Not sure if sarcastic - I can see he is consumed by terrors*, mentally unstable, and sees himself on a Great Mission to save the world. Not that unusual.

*He can neither believe in God, nor face a world without God. Hence "truth is what is pro-survival" - this allows him to have God as True without him believing in God's actual existence. Basically the HP Lovecraft figure who sees the universe as ultimately horrific due to the non existence of the supernatural, and so retreats from science - truth - in a quest to create his own reality as the Nietzschean Overman.

Blogger Mac May 27, 2018 2:43 AM  

In the 'Sun' article there is a link to Walrus article where Peterson's claim to be an Indian is discussed. As it is, he is only a member of one Indian family but not this tribe. However, the Western concept of adoption, starting with Romans, makes you automatically a member of your parents nation. So I would say he is excused. What I find a bit overblown - maybe as an European - is how he surrounds himself, with a kind of devotion, with all that objects of another culture. But, well, even in Europe some like the primitive art. I tried to explain it to myself that as a Canadian, he may consider the Indian tribes the part of nation of Canada, so his devotion to the Indian material culture (it seems he did not explore their beliefs in spite of his Jungianism) can be read as a subtle form of Canadian nationalism....But as I said, this is just a speculation since I am not a Canadian.

https://thewalrus.ca/the-story-behind-jordan-petersons-indigenous-identity/


All in all, I think you should give Peterson some slack, wait maybe a year until talking about 12 rules, shallow as they are, will not be productive anymore, and see what he will roll out next. The 'Walrus' article at least proves that he is not malicious. Currently Peterson enjoys his 5 minutes of fame, let him have it, as a depressed person he must have suffered a lot... And I say this as someone who cannot bear listening to him more than 20 minutes due to his screeching voice.

Blogger mostly dead May 27, 2018 5:29 AM  

FFS people, read the whole article if you can stomach its tone. Schiff was triggered by Peterson's positive treatment of Christianity and with his opposition to Left's gender politics. Whatever your beef with Peterson, it certainly ain't any of those two. Given how that is what pushed Schiff "over the edge", and had him contribute to the current campaign against Peterson, nothing he writes ought be taken seriously. If Peterson is your enemy, Schiff is even more of a one.

Blogger Rocklea Marina May 27, 2018 7:01 AM  

Schiff was triggered by Peterson's positive treatment of Christianity and with his opposition to Left's gender politics.

So what? He lived with Professor Dr. E Daddy.

Given how that is what pushed Schiff "over the edge", and had him contribute to the current campaign against Peterson, nothing he writes ought be taken seriously. If Peterson is your enemy, Schiff is even more of a one.

Yes. And he lived with Professor Dr. E Daddy. They were friends.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 9:15 AM  

Given how that is what pushed Schiff "over the edge", and had him contribute to the current campaign against Peterson, nothing he writes ought be taken seriously.

Genetic fallacy. You're too short for this ride.

Blogger VD May 27, 2018 9:17 AM  

All in all, I think you should give Peterson some slack, wait maybe a year until talking about 12 rules, shallow as they are, will not be productive anymore, and see what he will roll out next. The 'Walrus' article at least proves that he is not malicious.

No. And so what if he's not "malicious". He's crazy pushing an evil philosophy because he's got grandiose delusions. He's worse than malicious.

Blogger Unknown May 27, 2018 9:52 AM  

and your a...a...poopy head.

Blogger LP999-16 May 27, 2018 10:42 AM  

OT: This morning, the Rainbow Push Coalition Rev. Jackson on his, 'we hate white people radio show,' had to give credit to POTUS over the pardoning of a boxer.

Beautiful.

103, No slack given, absolutely not. Good to note the author of the 9, Ivan was present and took notice to Rollo at tw-tar.

Excellent Peri's.

"Materially helped" JP with his career, took notice to Tammy but no mention is made of a very sick daughter?

Given, protective proper parents would not volunteer personal information about their children or a colleague's family life but no mention of this daughter that suffered a great deal in the long term sense per her own testimony at youtube in 2018?

She went on for over 20 mins the poor thing detailed her suffering and path to being better. And yet this close friend doesn't even hint at, "well like all families they have been through alot?"

I don't trust this colleague or any of these fans, followers or promoters.

In regards to dreams, its just the brain processing whatever at night in REM; let it go. Dreaming is nice but wake up, you can sleep when your dead. Let death go, nothing to fear.

Yogi's like to talk about dreams, weed, crystals, acid, etc., I endure for 2 mins and walk away, its boring female solipsism and murky mysticism mixed with dope cut with fake intuition rolled for you to smoke.

However, I am not accusing anyone of drug use for these "dreams" or gaslighting but after reading/listening to the 12 rules it was illuminating to shocking that Heretic Little ChickenHawk Ben, to Rubin and Beck fell all over themselves to talk with JP.

(Why? Push soft globalism.)

I am not mocking anyone either its just 'everyone' likes to think that perhaps 'everyone' in healthcare is there to help sometimes they are not and verge upon being harmful.

Truly by exposing JP, Vox also quietly, politely as possible exposes others as the questionable dishonest fakes they are.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz May 27, 2018 11:55 AM  

The guy who wrote this has a tranny kid and basically thinks Peterson is just a 'right wing bigot'

I was an early Peterson fan. I saw his initial tranny video maybe 2 weeks after it was first published. Shortly thereafter, he began showing up on alt-right/light podcasts and it was on these podcasts that he showed himself to be a phoney.

I was not at all surprised when VD called him out and was mostly in agreement. I also noticed early on that his defense of Christianity was weak and was more cultural than theological.

The guy who wrote this critique of Peterson says he saw problems with Peterson right from the beginning, but was willing to overlook these problems because they didn't affect him. Now that he sees Peterson as anti-trans, he suddenly sees the light? Give me a break. This guy is about as trustworthy as Peterson himself!

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants May 28, 2018 12:18 PM  

It's willful ignorance, Vox. I'm not terribly bright and yet I've had zero issues understanding every point you've made thus far, regarding Peterson.
In fact, even with my limited brain power, I had independently deduced the man was mentally unstrung shortly after he made his first public appearances.
IMHO, he reeks of nuttery.

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