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Wednesday, May 02, 2018

Mailvox: this is not Alpha Game

But I suppose the subject is relevant to the Jordan Peterson investigation, so I'll tolerate it for the time being:
Is it possible for Gamma's to stop being Gammas? Is the only choice for a Gamma to do what Peterson has done and form heuristics to protect themselves? If they become committed Christians can they exceed their Gamma boundaries or will they simply be Gamma Christians? If they adopt existential relativism per Peterson, will that ever graduate them to Betas, or is always going to be social masking?

Also in trying to generalise from your list of qualities, is it a combination of intelligence plus poor social skills plus generalised low self-esteem? So by that I mean, can socially adroit, physically attractive, plain-speaking men who are good with women still be gamma if they have low self-esteem deriving from some source like a traumatic life event or bad brain biology? If Pyjama boy was able to derive a sense of humility and self-esteem that wasn't at the expense of others could he stop being a Gamma?

I know a lot of men who are very impressive men, resilient, accomplished, educated, self-confident, but in marriages to women who utterly dominate them in the household with abuse and passive aggression. Are they Gammas because of their inability to exercise dominion over their wives despite all their external accomplishments?

I apologise if these are all stupid questions. I know you hate people asking if they're Gammas. I'll freely admit I'm trying to apply the model to myself a bit, but I'm also trying to understand it's general operation.
First and foremost, "Gamma" is a male behavioral pattern. You are a Gamma to the extent that you behave in accordance with that pattern. One's socio-sexual rank can be reliably ascertained by one's behavior, and one's rank is conferred by the behavior of others, but the core element is always the behavior.

So, in answer to the questions:
  1. Yes, it is obviously possible for Gammas to stop being Gammas. They merely have to permanently change their behavioral patterns. But this is considerably harder than it sounds, as anyone who has ever tried to lose weight, stop smoking, or start working out knows.
  2. No, the choice that Peterson has made is a very conventional Gamma action that is totally consistent with Gamma self-protection.
  3. A Gamma becoming a Christian merely produces a Christian Gamma. Christianity can help a Gamma alter his behavior patterns, but it must be admitted that Churchianity tends to encourage some Gamma behaviors, particularly where women and conflict are concerned.
  4. Existential relativism is only going to cement the Gamma's behavioral pattern. Any Gamma following Peterson's philosophy is merely going to become a Gamma with a clean room, better posture, and an iron-clad delusion bubble.
  5. No, to say Gamma is a combination of qualities is mistaking the qualities for the behavioral patterns. My current understanding is that Gamma is primarily caused by the need to avoid experiencing emotional pain. Obviously, the lower on the socio-sexual totem pole you are, the more emotional pain you are likely to experience from rejection, bullying, and failure.
  6. No Gammas are good with women. Women are literally repulsed by the behavior pattern. But Gammas are not the only men with low self-esteem. Except for Alpha and Sigma, any behavioral pattern can possess low self-esteem. One might even argue that a Beta is an Alpha with lower self-esteem.
  7. Pajama Boy will never stop being a Gamma. His behavioral pattern is too embedded in his self-identity.
  8. Married men who are dominated by women are usually Deltas. But any man, of any rank, can marry the wrong woman, and find his behavioral patterns modified to some extent as a result.
There are two easy Gamma signals. The first is dishonesty, particularly in the face of conflict. That dishonesty can take many forms, from false bravado to bizarre lies about their accomplishments to inaccurate explanations of their actions. When Jordan Peterson mentioned that 90 percent of his self-talk in his youth was dishonest, that was a dead giveaway, because Gammas are engaged in a constant monologue with themselves. Whether they talk themselves up or they talk themselves down is irrelevant, the point is that they are always talking to themselves instead of anyone else.

The second is heightened sensitivity. The Gamma is constantly on the alert for what others are thinking and saying about him. He is excessively pleased by praise and will often cite it, and is inordinately upset by criticism. He has a very limited capacity for shrugging off either.

Women are very, very good at identifying Gammas. But they tend to think of it as negative sex appeal. So, if you ask a woman if she would ever have sex with someone and her instinctive response is to shiver in horror at the mere suggestion, you can be confident that he reliably exhibits the Gamma behavioral pattern.

If you want to stop being a Gamma, there is a guide to doing so called Graduating Gamma, written by a Delta who succeeded in breaking his former behavioral pattern.

Labels: ,

98 Comments:

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 8:15 AM  

merely going to become a Gamma with a clean room, better posture

Rule 12: Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 02, 2018 8:33 AM  

All beings are defined & confined by their foundational structure.

Arthur Schopenhauer
No one can get outside his own individuality. In all the circumstances in which the animal is placed, it remains confined to that narrow circle, irrevocably drawn for it by nature, so that, for instance, our endeavors to make a pet happy must always keep within narrow bounds precisely on account of those limits of its true nature and consciousness. It is the same with man; the measure of his possible happiness is determined beforehand by his individuality. In particular the limits of his mental powers have fixed once and for all his capacity for pleasures of a higher order.[v]

If those [intellectual] powers are small, all the efforts from without, everything done for him by mankind or good fortune, will not enable him to rise above the ordinary half-animal human happiness and comfort. He [the intellectually inferior] is left to depend on the pleasures of the senses, on a cozy and cheerful family life, on low company and vulgar pastimes. Even education, on the whole, cannot do very much, if anything to broaden his horizon. For the highest, most varied, and most permanent pleasures are those of the mind, however much we may deceive ourselves on this point when we are young; but these pleasures depend mainly on innate mental powers. Therefore it is clear from this how much our happiness depends on what we are, our individuality, whereas in most cases we take into account only our fate, only what we have or represent. Fate, however, can improve; moreover, if we are inwardly wealthy we shall not demand much from it. On the other hand, a fool remains a fool, a dull blockhead a dull blockhead, till the end of his life, even if he were surrounded by houris in paradise. [vi]

“The emptiness of their inner life, the dullness of their consciousness, the poorness of their minds drive them to the company of others which consists of men like themselves, for similis simili gaudet [like takes pleasure in like]. They then pursue pastime and entertainment in common which they seek first in sensual pleasures, in amusements of every kind, and finally in excess and dissipation.”[vii]

“the life of the masses [and presumably that of the masses of the dark races to a greater degree than the white masses] is passed in dullness since all their thoughts and desires are directed to the petty interests of personal welfare and thus to wretchedness and misery in all its forms. For this reason, intolerable boredom befalls them as soon as they are no longer occupied with those aims and they are now thrown back on themselves, for only the fierce fire of passion can stir into action the dull and indolent masses.”

Nine-tenths of our happiness depends on health alone. With it everything becomes a source of pleasure, whereas without it nothing, whatever it may be, can be enjoyed. ... From this it follows that the greatest of all follies is to sacrifice our health for whatever it may be, for gain, profit, promotion, learning, or fame, not to mention sensual and other fleeting pleasures; rather should we give first place to health.

All the pomp and pleasure that are mirrored in the dull consciousness of a simpleton are very poor when compared with the consciousness of Cervantes writing Don Quixote in a miserable prison.

Blogger The Kurgan May 02, 2018 8:50 AM  

Good God. I wish everyone would stop referring to Schopenhauer as anything other than an ugly, bitter, retarded German. Because that’s pretty much what he was.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 02, 2018 9:21 AM  

Ha. Wasn't he a Buddhist? That was said somewhere in the comments on an earlier article. If he was, then that's a big stain on his philosophy.
Nothing sorrier than a white Buddhist.

Blogger Alphaeus May 02, 2018 9:31 AM  

"First and foremost, "Gamma" is a male behavioral pattern. You are a Gamma to the extent that you behave in accordance with that pattern. "

So, what you're saying is, Gamma is as Gamma does. Just like Stupid.

Blogger OGRE May 02, 2018 9:34 AM  

"Schopenhauer has got quite a crude mind...where real depth begins, his comes to an end."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 02, 2018 9:38 AM  

The Kurgan wrote: you have nothing better than bitter retarded name-calling to refute even a single point in the quotes above?

Here's a simpler version for you:

Francis Bacon, Novum Organum -1620
Man, as the minister and interpreter of nature, does and understands as much as his observations on the order of nature, either with regard to things or the mind, permit him, and neither knows nor is capable of more.

Blogger The Service May 02, 2018 9:44 AM  

Jordan Peterson might well be exactly as dishonest and confused as Vox Day has argued.

But if "women are very, very good at identifying Gammas," and if they are reliably repulsed by thought of having sex with a Gamma, then Jordan Peterson is not a Gamma. The man has many ardent female fans, of all ages. I have seen Jordan Peterson speak, and there were many attractive young women in the audience who were swooning with admiration and enchantment. His appeal to them was rock star-like.

If a man in his fifties can arouse scores of women in their twenties through the force of his personality, can he really be called a Gamma?

Peterson's social skills are excellent, his charisma is undeniable, and he has reliably demonstrated in his public debates much less vulnerability to insult than a normal man.

Yes, he has been dishonest on the Jewish question, and his core philosophy is untenable.

But he cannot plausibly be called a Gamma.

Blogger Some Guy May 02, 2018 9:56 AM  

@8

The answer is yes. Most of those women have never met the man himself. The women who know him personally find his behavior disturbing. You public persona has very little to do with who you are at home and relaxed.

Blogger Colin Flaherty's baby momma May 02, 2018 9:56 AM  

The critical role of genetics/heritable traits has been proven millions of times in the selective breeding of dogs, horses, cows, birds, and plants to create desirable breeds & strains. Some breeds are more intelligent/aggressive/agile/productive than others.
Europeans domesticated wolves into dogs. Selective breeding is different from natural selection only in that humans instead of natural environment control the process.

You cannot change an African into a European, the same way you cannot make a Poodle become a German shepherd. You can't educate a myotonic goat not to faint. You can't train Africanized bees not to be aggressive. You can't make a person with Down syndrome smart. You can't change a granny smith apple into a gala apple by treating it a certain way. You can't change a dwarf palm into a royal palm. Biology is real; genes are critical. You can't fix stupid. Live with it.

Blogger The Service May 02, 2018 10:02 AM  

"The women who know him personally find his behavior disturbing."

Perhaps I missed a story about him. Are there actually unflattering reports from women in his life?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 02, 2018 10:04 AM  

You can't make a ho into a housewife?

Blogger Some Guy May 02, 2018 10:04 AM  

@11

I'm not speaking of Peterson in particular, just that it is possible for a Gamma to put on a good public face and be something different in the privacy of his home. Peterson may or may not be, but Vox is convinced that he is a Gamma, so I give credence to that.

Blogger Peter Gent May 02, 2018 10:09 AM  

Dear Colin, some things can be transcended. Nurture can enable someone to reach the maximum available in someone's genetics and since few come anywhere close to that what we are used to seeing is the mean of the possibilities. There is an AWFUL lot of space left to right of the curve.

My daughter took our Akita puppy under her care when he was 8 weeks old and he never left her presence (she even carried him in a soft carrier to class at university) for the first three months. He started out being loved like no dog I have ever known.

Our vet said he was the first and only Akita she would let near her kids and he was indeed a strong, alert, protective (under remarkable control), and most loving dog I have ever had or met.

I think we seldom know the upper limits of what is possible given genetics, because we seldom if ever come remotely close to maximizing the potential.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 10:13 AM  

But if "women are very, very good at identifying Gammas," and if they are reliably repulsed by thought of having sex with a Gamma, then Jordan Peterson is not a Gamma. The man has many ardent female fans, of all ages. I have seen Jordan Peterson speak, and there were many attractive young women in the audience who were swooning with admiration and enchantment. His appeal to them was rock star-like.

Irrelevant. You need to look up the concept of "situational Alpha". And then look up Peterson's history. I will bet you that he was hopelessly bad with girls all through his formative years.

Those swooning fans no more want to have sex with the actual Jordan Peterson than the swooning teenyboppers do with their Tiger Beat fixations. You're confusing fame with with genuine sexual attraction.

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 02, 2018 10:16 AM  

I fear that Vox may be correct. I don't care about JBP per se, but I am afraid of what it means for me as a person.

Do Gammas admire other Gammas?

Blogger Peter Gent May 02, 2018 10:17 AM  

Re: You're confusing fame with with genuine sexual attraction.

Remove all the "fame" and put him in an anonymous social gathering where no one knows him and he is just himself and see how the women react to him. It is important to separate the avatar from the host.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 10:18 AM  

But he cannot plausibly be called a Gamma.

You're also failing to distinguish between socio-sexual rank and behavioral pattern. Due to his fame and wealth, Peterson now has high social rank. But his behavioral pattern remains the same.

Do Gammas admire other Gammas?

The successful ones, very much. SF gammas love John Scalzi, for example. I've noticed that Peterson's fans are inordinately gammas as well.

Gammas hate and envy Alphas.

Blogger Volpack May 02, 2018 10:18 AM  

Rule 12 is to pet alley cats?

Cats are for kicking.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 02, 2018 10:26 AM  

Scalzi, Nell Fenwick and Peterson either hate me or will once they get to know me.

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 10:39 AM  

You can't spell housewife without the ho.

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 10:42 AM  

I fear that Vox may be correct.

Do not fear the truth, learn from it.

Blogger Zaklog the Great May 02, 2018 10:48 AM  

@1

JBP's rule 12: Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

GE Trump's rule 12: Grab a pussy when you encounter one on the street

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 10:49 AM  

Would it be accurate to conceptualize the socio-sexual hierarchy as a coordinate plane? It seems that a lot of the people who are confused always think about the hierarchy in a linear fashion.
There are certain distinctions that always seem to get blurred. Charlie Sheen and Trump have both gotten laid a lot yet only one of them is fit to lead the US.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 02, 2018 10:52 AM  

Genuinely good advice here if you want to break out of Gamma Orbit.

Forming good habits are difficult but it is possible if you remember these three things.

Trigger

Action

Reward

University studies have piled up a lot of data on this and it's pretty reliable.

Let's look at a couple of bad habits

Drugs: Feel Bad (Trigger). Do drugs (action). Euphoria (reward).

Smoking: Feel stressed (trigger). Smoke (action). Stress relieved (reward).


The thing is you can use this system to build new habits. For example.

Weight Training: Alarm goes off at 5:00 (trigger). Go to the gym and work out (action). Then got to my coffee shop for embarrassing froo-froo coffee that no real man should drink (reward).

Admittedly the first twentyone days will be the hardest but after that you are on auto pilot and on your way to becoming something you want to be.

Blogger OGRE May 02, 2018 10:54 AM  

@23 Is that really one of his rules?? Thats fucking stupid...unless you like getting bit by feral cats.

Blogger peppermint May 02, 2018 10:54 AM  

My mom would nag and dominate my dad. I thought that I would never marry to avoid that, however, women are so attractive. So I experimented on them and discovered that the man sets the priorities not by saying so but because the woman just knows that the man wants, and if the man sets unrealistic expectatioms and criticizes the woman for not living up to them, she will criticize him for not living up to his expectations either. So that's the solution to a nagging wife. You need to be more loving and understanding.

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 11:00 AM  

OGRE wrote:@23 Is that really one of his rules?? Thats fucking stupid...unless you like getting bit by feral cats.

Actually I think he stole it from someone else.

Zaklog the Great wrote:@1

JBP's rule 12: Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

GE Trump's rule 12: Grab a pussy when you encounter one on the street


How to tell if he's an Alpha or a Gamma:

Blogger Zaklog the Great May 02, 2018 11:12 AM  

@26 Is that really one of his rules?

Yes. I've read the book. In context, it's not so much about cats, but about taking small pleasures where you can find them in a life that is often rough.

I freely admit that JBP is not being honest regarding Jewish intelligence and related issues and that he shies away, in general, from the question of race & IQ in general. That said, I don't think he's a complete fraud. I seem to be frequently finding myself in this kind of position, both here and on Mr. Wright's blog. I don't know whether to take it a sign of a contrarian personality or what.

Ah well, as long as I don't piss off anyone enough to get kicked off, I guess I can live with that.

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 02, 2018 11:24 AM  

Ironically, JBPs self authoring program is is pretty great for changing behavior. Its essentially a reformation of Tony Robbins.

The reason I'm afraid is I spent essentially 3 years losing 100 plus pounds as well as undergoing some extreme redpilling. If I still have Gamma behavior then that sucks.

Blogger electricsheeple May 02, 2018 11:27 AM  

VD, With regards to recreating reality, do you think that is common with Psychologists?

One of JP's most famous videos is about avoiding becoming the manchild (40 year old unambitious loser basically). He teaches that this what Peter Pan is the archetype for the manchild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGGIN3nQ5kQ


The author of Peter Pan stated that Peter Pan was based on the author's brother who died at age 14.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Peter_Pan#Age


This is just something I always thought was strange. Yeah Peterson's message is noble (people should avoid becoming losers).

But how can Peter Pan be the archetype of a 40-year-old loser when Author himself is basing the character on his brother who died at 14?

The author probably wasn't projecting those demons either. He was married by 31, was a successful author, and was said to have many friends.

https://infogalactic.com/info/J._M._Barrie#Marriage


Do Archetypal Psychologist just make up reality as they go along?

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 11:28 AM  

So that's the solution to a nagging wife. You need to be more loving and understanding.

It's definitely not. Never take a woman's advice on how to deal with women. That's merely rewarding bad behavior and will only make the nagging worse.

If I still have Gamma behavior then that sucks.

Of course you do. It is engraved in your personality now. You will fight a lifelong battle to surmount it, and when faced with pressure, you will tend to revert to it.

The good news is that you've already proved to yourself that you can surmount it.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 11:28 AM  

Guys, I'm reading the Harris/Peterson interview and gonna need some help.

Am I having English understanding issues due to being French, second language, etc, or is this really the actual deep pile of new-age woo-woo profound bullshit that it looks like?

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 11:30 AM  

That said, I don't think he's a complete fraud. I seem to be frequently finding myself in this kind of position, both here and on Mr. Wright's blog. I don't know whether to take it a sign of a contrarian personality or what.

No, you're simply not willing to follow the logic. You're one of those people who demands incontrovertible proof before you change your mind.

Just keep in mind that reality exists whether it bothers to prove itself to you or not.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 11:31 AM  

Am I having English understanding issues due to being French, second language, etc, or is this really the actual deep pile of new-age woo-woo profound bullshit that it looks like?

The latter. It's piled high and deep, to such an extent that even Harris was amazed.

Blogger OGRE May 02, 2018 11:36 AM  

@29 Zaklog

I can understand the sentiment of enjoying the small pleasures in life, but its not a clever way of expressing that by giving dangerous advice. A strange cat can turn on you in an instant even after you've been friendly to each other, you've petted it and given it food. Petting strange cats--even those that are seemingly inviting it--can land you in a hospital with an irreparably damaged tendon in your hand.

A wise man would not dress up mundane life advice in flowery imagery that could result in injury to his adherents.

Blogger YclepedBobAli May 02, 2018 11:42 AM  

I think ADHD is actually being diagnosed for Gamma behaviours.

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 11:48 AM  

Mr. Deficient wrote:Ironically, JBPs self authoring program is is pretty great for changing behavior. Its essentially a reformation of Tony Robbins.

The reason I'm afraid is I spent essentially 3 years losing 100 plus pounds as well as undergoing some extreme redpilling. If I still have Gamma behavior then that sucks.


Sounds like a great start; definitely take a look at the Graduating Gamma links in the OP.

Blogger Nate73 May 02, 2018 11:49 AM  

A friend and I were arguing over the idea of if watching Peterson's videos is better or worse than reading transcripts after I showed him the Sam Harris/Peterson transcript (he listened, I read). My position was that video allows more expressiveness, but it also allows more dishonesty. The classic example is a MSM news show where B-roll is used to suggest something false without saying it (e.g. showing some broken beer bottles to indicate someone was a drunk driver, even if this isn't actually known). Even in the Kennedy/Nixon debate it was just two men at podiums talking, and the result was still biased toward the more attractive person.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 02, 2018 11:58 AM  

Hey thanks for that. That seems like a good way to approach change. Even just recognizing that something is triggering you is probably helpful. I'll try it out.

Blogger Bill H May 02, 2018 11:59 AM  

I think the most powerful two steps (at least for me) from getting away from Gamma behavior patterns were:

1. Focusing on how I could serve others, and
2. Feeling emotional pain when it comes up.

Whenever I do these things, good things happen in my sense of self. I do not feel insecure or plagued with self-doubt when doing something for someone else ... and I have learned some cognitive-behavioral techniques that are probably just stoicism dressed up in fancy language ... the result is that when I find myself avoiding emotional pain, I simply feel it. It actually passes and then there's healing on the other side.

And for whatever it's worth, I've started to build things in my off hours--and I find the physical labor extremely beneficial in all sorts of ways. I would recommend a workbench and workshop to every man.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 02, 2018 12:02 PM  

He's encouraging his followers to contract rabies. Nothing worse than that, if you don't get it treated. 99.9999% death rate.

What kind of psychologist gives advice to touch strange animals?

Blogger Patrick Kelly May 02, 2018 12:05 PM  

I don't know if I've ever been a full on gamma, but definitely a delta fighting gamma tendencies.

Stress and trauma used to bring them out, but Christian faith and being challenged by writing on this blog and others has helped me deal with those better and identify the crap bubbling up inside before I puke it out on others.

True repentance never ends.

Blogger Flair1239 May 02, 2018 12:07 PM  

He believes that reality exists, he just states that we perceive a very small portion of it. Basically just what we need to function.

He addresses this issue in the 2017 Maps of Meaning series, I think somewhere in the 4th through 6th. He also revisits this point in several of his speeches.

Depending which Sam Harris video you are watching, he has also said he did not believe he acquitted himself very well in that interview.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 12:11 PM  

I think JP will recant on the JewIQ thing.

Blogger Some Guy May 02, 2018 12:12 PM  

@30

I'll probably get trolled for this, but I have some terrible Gamma tendencies and there is a way to help clear yourself from a lot of them. Go to

https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-Relieve-Anxiety-Logosynthesis-ebook/dp/B01FL42OSK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525277373&sr=8-2&keywords=letting+it+go+book

It's a program called Logosynthesis. I don't know why it works or how it work, just that it does. I'm pretty sure the guy who stumbled across it is a New Age nut job, but my Counselor recommended it and although I was skeptical, it actually has produced a very profound change in me. It's one of the reasons I was able to start implementing Peterson's self-authoring stuff.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 12:17 PM  

Rule 12 is a good way to contract a serious toxoplasma gondii infection and alzheimers disease. Hopefully JP recants on that one too.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 12:18 PM  

VD wrote:
The latter. It's piled high and deep, to such an extent that even Harris was amazed.


Yeah, damn...

Harris: I need to break in here Jordan because I just think you’re not noticing the price you're paying for redefining a word like truth and you know, ironically it's probably even a steeper price then what these gender pronoun maniacs are attempting to pay for asking that everyone use their favorite word to describe their identity. Truth is a bedrock conception, it’s not just a scientific one, it's a journalistic one, it's a an interpersonal one, and it is a…

Peterson: Okay good good. Well let’s flip to that.

Harris: …it’s that too which are very sanity is anchored.

Peterson: Well, okay

Harris: and I think you tug at the anchor at your peril.

Peterson: Right, definitely, believe me I'm perfectly aware that, it's put me in peril many times, but I would also point out that people were getting along just fine without an empirical conception of the world for millions and millions of years, and animals still manage it. So they're obviously operating on some level of representation of reality that doesn't require articulated empirical investigation

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 02, 2018 12:24 PM  

Fucking hell.

If the animal doesn't have a model of reality that says tigers have a certain shape, size, and appetite, and they eat my babies ... we call that animal dinner.

If it has a model that is not congruent with reality IN THE ASPECTS THAT ARE VITAL TO ITS SURVIVAL then that animal is dinner. Either for tigers or for carrion eaters.

Success is a function of how accurately your mental model of reality maps to actual reality: it doesn't matter if you're consciously aware of that or not, it remains true.

i.e. it's an objective fact of reality and it doesn't care if you're aware if it or not, it will kill you anyway.

Anonymous Anonymous May 02, 2018 12:29 PM  

Now,

OGRE wrote:
A strange cat can turn on you in an instant even after you've been friendly to each other, you've petted it and given it food. Petting strange cats--even those that are seemingly inviting it--can land you in a hospital with an irreparably damaged tendon in your hand.


Rusty wrote:Rule 12 is a good way to contract a serious toxoplasma gondii infection.

Wynn Lloyd wrote:He's encouraging his followers to contract rabies.

You guys are thinking like conservatives!

Replace "strange cat" with "migrant", then imagine how a liberal would react to these sentences. Try explaining to a liberal that migrants increase crime and carry disease.

Please read the "r/K selection" book by Anonymous Conservative. It's very interesting. Basically he says that liberals have an under-developed amygdala (this is the doohickey in the brain that tells you "this is a threat, be careful" among other things). To a liberal, if you worry about disease carried by the strange cat in the street, you'll be just "silly" or "paranoid" because they can't perceive threats in the same way...

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 12:34 PM  

Depending which Sam Harris video you are watching, he has also said he did not believe he acquitted himself very well in that interview.

So what. He didn't. That doesn't change the fact that he inadvertently revealed that he's full of shit. The fact that the squid ink cleared for a few moments to give you an accurate picture is all the indictment of the man as a bullshit artist that you need.

Did he admit that he was wrong? Of course not. Because Gamma.

Blogger Jed Mask May 02, 2018 12:49 PM  

Hmmm... Well better pray for him, Mr. Vox.

You could probably reach him better than I could at the moment.

With your "professionalism" and all. No "sarcasm". Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 12:56 PM  

When dealing with Pharisees, I prefer to take the approach that Jesus Christ did.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 02, 2018 1:11 PM  

"Mailvox: this is not Alpha Game"

It does look like Alpha Game is dead again and needs another caretaker...

"When dealing with Pharisees, I prefer to take the approach that Jesus Christ did."

Interesting way of putting it. We're supposed to imitate Jesus Christ in any case...

Blogger vanderleun May 02, 2018 1:12 PM  

Very stern. But I think it presages a new rule made manifest here: "Gamma always gamma down."

Blogger VFM #7634 May 02, 2018 1:13 PM  

"Gammas hate and envy Alphas."

Any ostensible conservative (cuckservative) who's still a NeverTrumper is most definitely a Gamma.

Blogger Disciple of Kek May 02, 2018 1:14 PM  

I transitioned from beta/gamma to more of a sigma. It took years, and required me to start fresh at university (even if you change your mindset, sometimes our physical habitat helps re enforce behavior). There are still moments I exhibit residual beta or gamma behavior, but I'm mostly very inward and confident in my inwardness... But I'm not totally a lone wolf that's why I say I am sigma/delta.

How did I do it?

1. If deceit is the foundation of the gamma, the remedy is truth. If you think you are great, but you are flawed, you won't work on self development as if you realize you are not good. Don't self pity though as that is another ego trap.

2. Physical component: work out, eat good food, better posture. Really helps but isn't a cure all.

3. Mental component: believe in yourself and/or have faith in something greater than yourself. Work on attitude and fixing negative, self destructive, or self deceptive thought patterns. It sounds new agey, but even if you aren't that good looking or in great shape, many women sense positive energy as that suggest good genetic material (achieve more, not depressed or insane) and potential to be a good father.

Truth, faith, and goodness.... while they won't make you an alpha these qualities properly cultivated will reduce gamma tendencies. It all starts with being true to yourself, and seeing things clearly.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 02, 2018 1:42 PM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:GE Trump's rule 12: Grab a pussy when you encounter one on the street

I suspect that Trump's Rule 12 is more like: When you're doing it right, pussy wants you to grab it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 02, 2018 1:44 PM  

"...but I would also point out that people were getting along just fine without an empirical conception of the world for millions and millions of years, and animals still manage it."
What the holy hell does he think "empirical" means? Animals can ONLY have an empirical view of the world. This guy has a Doctorate?
This is a level of stupid only Marxists and Atheists can achieve.

Blogger John May 02, 2018 1:58 PM  

Vox,

I too was less than impressed with JBP’s performance in Part 1 of the Sam Harris podcast. For what it is worth, after reading Paul McKeever’s thorough analysis (below) I have a better understanding of what JBP was attempting to express (albeit poorly).

I was ignorant of the philosophy underlying coherence theory of truth and correspondence theory of truth.

Paul provides a great commentary on both theories. Additionally he single handidly drags JBP’s corpse across the finish line.

It was fairly obvious that Harris subscribes to a Correspondence theory of truth, whereas Peterson subscribes to a pragmatist version of the Coherence theory of truth. I submit that a proper understanding of what went wrong with the Harris-Peterson conversation requires an understanding of the difference between Correspondence and Coherence theories of truth, but – more importantly – an understanding of the other philosophical assumptions that lead one to subscribe to a Correspondence theory or to a Coherence theory.

A Correspondence theory of truth essentially is one that holds up reality as the standard of whether one’s propositions are true or false. As Aristotle put it:

“To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”.
Thus, for one to subscribe to a Correspondence theory of truth, one must assume that there is a reality that exists independently of what anyone thinks about reality. Harris makes that assumption, as was made clear in such of his comments as this one:

“It just seems to be undeniable that there are facts whether or not any of us – any existing population of human beings – are aware of those facts. So, before there was any understanding of the energy trapped in an atom, the energy was still trapped in the atom.”

On the Correspondence theory of truth, a proposition about reality is true if it corresponds to reality, and false if it does not correspond to reality. Thus, if apples do fall from trees, then – by a Correspondence theory of truth – the proposition “Apples fall from trees” is true, and the proposition “Apples rise into the sky” is false.

In contrast to Correspondence theories, Coherence theories of truth essentially are those that hold a proposition to be true if it is compatible – logically, or in some other way – with a system of beliefs (e.g., with one’s other beliefs, or with the beliefs held widely by a number of people). For example, one’s proposition “Apples rise from trees” is compatible with one’s belief that things rise into the sky (instead of falling to the ground): the proposition coheres with the belief, so it is true on a Coherence theory of truth.

In contrast, if one believes that all objects rise into the sky, one’s proposition that “Apples fall to the ground” does not cohere with one’s belief that all things rise into the sky. Under those circumstances, the proposition about falling apples would be adjudged false by a Coherence theory of truth.

http://blog.paulmckeever.ca/uncategorized/what-sam-harris-was-missing-re-jordan-peterson-and-what-is-true/

Blogger John May 02, 2018 2:01 PM  

http://blog.paulmckeever.ca/uncategorized/what-sam-harris-was-missing-re-jordan-peterson-and-what-is-true/

https://youtu.be/P1ZnLTkCfrU

Blogger Alphaeus May 02, 2018 2:23 PM  

"I was ignorant of the philosophy underlying coherence theory of truth and correspondence theory of truth."

It is my arrogant opinion that truth is elusive, and even more elusive is a solid coherent unassailable philosophical definition of truth.

I believe, quite arrogantly, because I am arrogant and only know how to do things arrogantly, that for us smelly humans the search for truth has to be less about what it is and more about what it is not.

That's why it seems rather easy to figure out that Professor Peterson is full of baloney with his theory of existential relativity, but much much harder for any of us to come up with an irrefutable unassailable alternative.

This is why I consider John Locke to be the smartest philosopher who ever lived, because he stuck to debunking the silly philosophical musings of others but avoided offering any actual systems of his own, because, I assume, he was smart enough to know that they would be bullshit the same as everyone else's.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 3:01 PM  

For what it is worth, after reading Paul McKeever’s thorough analysis (below) I have a better understanding of what JBP was attempting to express (albeit poorly).

Irrelevant. He's still totally full of shit.

In contrast, if one believes that all objects rise into the sky, one’s proposition that “Apples fall to the ground” does not cohere with one’s belief that all things rise into the sky. Under those circumstances, the proposition about falling apples would be adjudged false by a Coherence theory of truth.

So the coherence theory of truth is false. Which proves my point that Jordan Peterson's philosophy is totally wrong, totally evil, and totally worthy of being rejected.

Blogger R Webfoot May 02, 2018 4:08 PM  

From the Biblical series
https://jordanbpeterson.com/transcripts/biblical-series-xiv/

"Now, the degree to which the stories in the Old Testament actually constitutes what we would consider empirical history is a matter of debate. But it doesn’t matter, in some sense, because—as I mentioned, I think, before, in this lecture series—there are forms of fiction that are meta-true, which means that they’re not necessarily about a specific individual. Although, I do generally think they are based on the lives of specific individuals. It’s the simplest theory, but who knows. But they’re more real than reality itself, because they abstract out the most relevant elements of reality and present them to you. That’s why you watch fiction.

You want your fiction boiled down, right? You want to boil it down to the essence. That’s what makes good fiction. That essence is something that’s truer than plain old truth, if it’s handled well. Half a lifetime of events can go by in a Shakespeare play, and it covers a wide range of scenes, and so on. And so it’s cut and edited and compressed all at once, but, because of that, it blasts you with the kind of emotional and ethical force that just the mere videotaping of someone’s daily life wouldn’t even come close to approximating. This motif of the hostile brothers is a deep, deep archetypal truth."

Truth, for JP, is not about objective reality. It's about the "Whoa."

Blogger GAHCindy May 02, 2018 4:24 PM  

crapulux wrote:Now,

OGRE wrote:

A strange cat can turn on you in an instant even after you've been friendly to each other, you've petted it and given it food. Petting strange cats--even those that are seemingly inviting it--can land you in a hospital with an irreparably damaged tendon in your hand.



Rusty wrote:Rule 12 is a good way to contract a serious toxoplasma gondii infection.

Wynn Lloyd wrote:He's encouraging his followers to contract rabies.

You guys are thinking like conservatives!

Replace "strange cat" with "migrant", then imagine how a liberal would react to these sentences. Try explaining to a liberal that migrants increase crime and carry disease.

Please read the "r/K selection" book by Anonymous Conservative. It's very interesting. Basically he says that liberals have an under-developed amygdala (this is the doohickey in the brain that tells you "this is a threat, be careful" among other things). To a liberal, if you worry about disease carried by the strange cat in the street, you'll be just "silly" or "paranoid" because they can't perceive threats in the same way...



I'm very late to this conversation, but I just have to put this somewhere. Every time I see one of these r/K-related comments I'm reminded of a very liberal relative of mine. We were walking through a parking lot one day, and a large dog started barking at us from a car window. He was a very angry, and rather large dog, and I just kept walking, like sensible people do. I turned to talk to her a few steps on, and goodness, gracious! She was still way back at that car, about a foot and a half from the half-open window the dog was barking through.

She was *talking* to him, calling him a nice doggie, smiling. Such a weird smile, too, like she was hypnotized or something. The brain just wasn't functioning normally here.

I honestly think she'd have reached in and tried to pet him if I hadn't distracted her when I did. It's like she just would not, could not accept that the dog was not going to be friendly to her no matter how nice she tried to be to it.

Strangest thing I've ever seen, and one of the saddest. This 35 year old woman doesn't know not to talk to angry dogs? Thinks it worthwhile to try to make friends of them? Needless to say, the rest of her life doesn't make a lot of sense, either. The anti-depressants, I really do think, contribute to this inability to cope with danger, to some extent. But she was always like that. I have other stories, but I won't post them for fear of identifying her too easily. ;-)

Blogger Zaklog the Great May 02, 2018 4:31 PM  

@34 You may be right. I haven't for instance, heard the JBP/Sam Harris conversation which people are talking about here. Just to clarify, by the way, when I'm catching flak over at Mr. Wright's blog it's usually because I'm arguing in defense of an alt-right position, and trying to do so while remaining civil is quite a fun dance.

I haven't had an opportunity, for that matter, to listen to your most recent video on the topic, so that may change my thinking on the matter.

Blogger AnvilTiger May 02, 2018 5:22 PM  

Pretty simple: Where did I fuck up? Where do I need to change? How do I change (a behavior pattern)? What are the specific steps to change? Implement the steps. Repeat. (Applying the OODA loop to yourself).

It is simple. But simple can be very hard, and this is very hard. It takes years to do it, and you must not lie to yourself. If you don't lie to yourself, and you have the will to be persistent, then you can change - significantly. Regardless of how fucked up you are when you start the process.

Practical point #1 - if you are screwed up, you are probably surrounded by screwed up people. So part of the process is to change the people with whom you associate. Easiest way to do that is to move. Cut ties with them. And don't move and pick up another set of screwed up associates.

Practical point #2 - shut up. Keep your mouth shut. You cannot improve your social crowd if you open your mouth and express your fucked up self. Keep silent.

Practical point #3 - observe. Watch body language. Learn to read body language. Learn to emulate the body language of the non-screwed up people. When that body language becomes yours, and you are keeping your mouth shut, you will be accepted into improved social networks.

Blogger Avalanche May 02, 2018 5:41 PM  

@14 "Our vet said he was the first and only Akita she would let near her kids and he was indeed a strong, alert, protective (under remarkable control), and most loving dog I have ever had or met."

Yes yes, he was a nice quiet boy, didn't seem to have many friends, and then one day, he shot up the school.

You cannot IN ANY WAY say that a single example of a bitey dog raised to, thus FAR, not attack anyone can therefore be applied to any other member of its species. Many, many pitbulls are lovely darling dogs -- and you still dare not trust the 100%.

Blogger Avalanche May 02, 2018 5:53 PM  

@19 "Rule 12 is to pet alley cats? "

Geez! It's a metaphor, guys! He is saying that, when your life is a living hell, try to find what small, short-lived oases of pleasure and nature that brush by you. Not ALL of life is hell, even if it seems most of it is. So, if you find a bit of kindness, a delicious meal (that won't make you sick later), a gentle word from someone, try to live in that feeling (pet that cat!) for as long as you can. It won't be very long, probably (and the cat in the street won't put up with your petting for long) but for that brief shining moment, take what solace you can find!

Apparently, genetically, Peterson and his wife are very much not a match! Peterson's dad was very depressed, Peterson has been very depressed, the daughter has been very depressed; and had horrific juvie arthritis -- had to have a hip replaced around 15-16 and then her opposite ankle shortly thereafter -- so, as Peterson says - she was walking around for a year on two broken legs!)

You fathers will recognize the depth of pain at not being able to protect your child from hurt -- and this was truly brutal hurt. (Interestingly (or not) he asked her at one point in her teens if she could have chosen either the arthritis or the depression, which would she have chosen? And she said the arthritis!) But she figured out the diet thing, which has massively improved her health -- it also improved HIS health; when asked, he said he only eats meat and greens!

He also starts out that chapter discussing his beloved dog -- he's not a cat person, he's a dog person. He was merely using the neighbor's cat as a metaphor.

'kay? Hit him where it's appropriate; don't just whack and flail randomly! You detract from your criticisms.

Blogger Avalanche May 02, 2018 6:01 PM  

@42 "What kind of psychologist gives advice to touch strange animals?"

It was a NEIGHBOR'S cat! Not a feral cat, not a strange cat, not a rabid cat! Y'all sure have a lot of negativity about your random assumptions about a metaphor you've never ever read or heard before, eh?

If you won't consider the context, then your complaints are nonsensical.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 02, 2018 6:06 PM  

@37

"I think ADHD is actually being diagnosed for Gamma behaviours."

Only if the classic example, Lt. Gen George S. Patton was also a Gamma.

I think you need to rethink your hypothesis, and come up with a new one.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 6:12 PM  

If you won't consider the context, then your complaints are nonsensical.

First, the context is the second defense of the charlatan. Second, you missed the actual context, which was someone who clearly has not even read the relevant chapter expressing incredulity over an exaggerated version of the title.

Avalanche, for your own sake, please STOP trying to defend Peterson. It's not going to work. I am going to demolish him, his work, and his philosophy in much the same way Rome demolished Carthage.

Yes, he has done some good for some unfortunates. So did Mussolini, Hitler, and L. Ron Hubbard. But none of that is going to matter, and your attempt to fight a rear-guard action on his behalf is only going to upset you. If Peterson is the man you think he is, then have confidence that he will show up and defend himself adequately at some point.

And if he isn't, then you are going to regret defending him. So, my advice to you is to simply relax, criticize the points I make if you think I happen to have gotten something factually wrong - which does not mean some subjective definition/context opinion - and try to enjoy the ride. It should prove interesting and informative, no matter how it turns out.

Blogger weka May 02, 2018 6:19 PM  

That is rational emotive therapy... Without the jargon. Wirrten by Elkis, who was (((gamma)))

Blogger The Kurgan May 02, 2018 7:20 PM  

Look, if you think Schopenhauer was anyone worth even noticing, never mind “taking wisdom” from, you’re basically as far removed from me as a chimp. There is literally no point in my even trying to explain a damned thing to you.
Your only use is as some kind of entertaining circus monkey to poke with a stick for the amusement of the others here that don’t have a room temperature IQ.

Blogger The Kurgan May 02, 2018 7:28 PM  

Losing 100 lbs is a definite result.
So keep going.
As you continue to improve the tools you used when you were 100 lbs overweight don’t work anymore. You need new tools. Drop Peterson pick up Vox.
Keep moving forward.
Reload, fire, step. Repeat.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 02, 2018 7:40 PM  

Peterson Delenda Est?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 02, 2018 7:44 PM  

R Webfoot wrote:Truth, for JP, is not about objective reality. It's about the "Whoa."
"Truth isn't about the truth, it's about my emotional reaction to a concept or story."
All righty then....

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 7:50 PM  

Peterson Delenda Est?

Not quite. Not yet. We'll see.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 02, 2018 8:03 PM  

Took three wars to salt the earth at Carthage. We've got time.

Blogger Dave May 02, 2018 8:22 PM  

@The Kurgan

For Pete's sake if you're going to continue to reply to comments on mobile then reference a name or preferably a @comment number (yeah, I know, the comment numbers aren't available on mobile). On the mobile version your reply sticks to the comment which is ok but there's a good chance it will be missed unless people continually scroll through all comments checking for replies. I guess checking the Notify Me box would alert the commenter to whom you replied, I'm not sure.

On the desktop version your reply is not attached to the comment and often appears to be a random response or conversation with an unknown commenter. I prefer the use of the @comment number so the reader can jump to that comment if desired.

Mods: can you disguise the reply button?

Blogger wreckage May 02, 2018 8:45 PM  

@71 ADHD is nothing like Gamma. There is literally no overlap, aside from the self-esteem issues that arise from knowing you could be doing better, but never seeming to be able to do it. People with ADHD can perform amazingly well, but it chews up 10+ IQ points to do so.
ADHD's tendency to "do before think" and act on impulse pretty much propels them straight out of the Gamma's self-imposed hell of "never tried". ADHD Alphas are a sight to behold, but tend to burn themselves out or die young doing something ballsy but stupid.

Blogger wreckage May 02, 2018 8:51 PM  

Re: nagging wife. One part of that you can isolate and work on is the bits where she has to nag you. Pre-empting those is signal 1. I've never had to get to signal 2, because my wife isn't a nagger.

Blogger John May 02, 2018 8:59 PM  

Vox, did you read Paul’s entire piece? He goes on to explain, with great clarity that you are wrong. You conclude coherence theory is false by testing it against the framework of correspondence theory.

You too live your life according to the coherence theory insofar as you act in accordance with your Christian beliefs.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 9:07 PM  

Vox, did you read Paul’s entire piece? He goes on to explain, with great clarity that you are wrong. You conclude coherence theory is false by testing it against the framework of correspondence theory.

Yes. Paul does nothing of the sort. Coherence theory is utter bullshit and easily proven to be nonsense by sound logic and empirical demonstration alike. That "framework of correspondence theory" is reality.

Dancing around and playing sophistical word games does not impress me in the slightest. And, as I pointed out, Paul disagrees with what at least two other Peterson fans have claimed he meant by truth.

You're all snakes and deceivers.

Blogger VD May 02, 2018 9:11 PM  

Even Wikipedia suffices to point out what bullshit "coherence theory of truth" is:

On the whole, coherence theories have been criticized as lacking justification in their application to other areas of truth (epistemological assumptions), especially with respect to assertions about the natural world, empirical data in general, assertions about practical matters of psychology and society, especially when used without support from the other major theories of truth.

In other words, it's pseudo-philosophical bullshit, which I observed from the start. It is not what any normal human being considers to be truth.

And in the even that you're right and that is actually what Peterson meant, I will hang him by it.

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Blogger YclepedBobAli May 03, 2018 4:44 AM  

wreckage wrote:@71 ADHD is nothing like Gamma. There is literally no overlap, aside from the self-esteem issues that arise from knowing you could be doing better, but never seeming to be able to do it. People with ADHD can perform amazingly well, but it chews up 10+ IQ points to do so.

ADHD's tendency to "do before think" and act on impulse pretty much propels them straight out of the Gamma's self-imposed hell of "never tried". ADHD Alphas are a sight to behold, but tend to burn themselves out or die young doing something ballsy but stupid.


I disagree.

The latest science says that ADHD neurology correlates with heightened sensitivity - it's called ADHD Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. That is, it's a trait that is significantly more prevalent (statistically) in individuals with ADHD neurology, children and adults. Here what he says:

"RSD can make people with ADHD anticipate rejection — even when it is anything but certain. This can make them vigilant about avoiding it, which can be misdiagnosed as social phobia".

That emotional pain avoidance vigilance in so many words maps onto Vox's brilliant Gamma model.

Dodson says that internalised, the ADHD RSD manifests as intense sadness, self-fixation and obsession, and suicidal ideation in acutely sensitive individuals.

He says when it is externalised it looks like spontaneous anger outbursts.

Here's what else he says that maps onto Gamma behaviour, per Dodson:

"They become people pleasers. They scan every person they meet to figure out what that person admires and praises. Then, that’s the false self they present. Often this becomes such a dominating goal that they forget what they actually wanted from their own lives. They are too busy making sure other people aren’t displeased with them."

To me that sounds similar to a Gamma being inordinately pleased with praise and often citing it. The missing element is probably the snark.

Dodson says: "Some people use the pain of RSD to find adaptations and overachieve. They constantly work to be the best at what they do. Or, they are driven to be above criticism/reproach. They lead admirable lives, but at what cost? They strive for perfection, which is never attainable, and are constantly driven to achieve more"

That sounds like the 'never lose an argument' delusion and snark.

Psychology Today says there is a link between ADHD and dishonesty as well - because the attentional deficits mean an individual on the backfoot literally has to make up past experience they have no recollection of, or they have to lie because they can't hold data in working memory.

I'm probably wrong, I know some people think ADHD is just Jew science. But it just struck me.

Maybe Jordan Peterson just needs Gluafantine and Clonodine. That apparently works to prevent RSD in ADHD individuals.

Then there is the Gamma interior monologue - William Dodson M.D who writes for ADDitude Magazine says that a much more active interior monologue is a sign of high IQ ADHD individuals, in the same article he says that they crave sugar because of a Dopamine production inhibition.



Blogger Peter Gent May 03, 2018 8:04 AM  

Avalanche wrote:@14 Yes yes, he was a nice quiet boy, didn't seem to have many friends, and then one day, he shot up the school.

You cannot IN ANY WAY say that a single example of a bitey dog raised to, thus FAR, not attack anyone can therefore be applied to any other member of its species. Many, many pitbulls are lovely darling dogs -- and you still dare not trust the 100%.


I think you missed the point, which was some genetic traits are nurture dependent to reach their maximum expression, or in the case of my Akita, to minimize their expression through mitigation. Love can change everything the way it alters brain chemistry and even rewrites the circuitry.

Increased nutrition from an early age through maturity (nurture) has made us taller and stronger than our forebears. We have approached the limits of our genetic possibilities.

I believe intelligence often suffers from poor nurture, including physical (diet) and intellectual support/stimulation. I was a late bloomer, due to health problems and little intellectual support early on. However, despite testing above 140 in seventh grade, I never felt very smart or seemed able to reach that potential until my early 20's, as I matured physically and found supportive intellectual/social environments. Over the years I continued to grow once I was able to build by my own initiative better physical and intellectual support. There can a transition, but early on we are very dependent on others and circumstance that either helps or hinders our potential being reached.

Blogger Avalanche May 03, 2018 9:26 AM  

@42 "contract rabies. Nothing worse than that, if you don't get it treated. 99.9999% death rate."

Wee sperg: there's a doc who has managed to save, like 5-6 people with rabies. Fascinating article!

https://www.wired.com/2012/07/ff_rabies/
"Of 41 attempts worldwide, five more patients have pulled through,... "

Blogger Avalanche May 03, 2018 9:32 AM  

@72 "So, my advice to you is to simply relax, criticize the points I make if you think I happen to have gotten something factually wrong - which does not mean some subjective definition/context opinion - and try to enjoy the ride. It should prove interesting and informative, no matter how it turns out."

Yes. Okay. Sorry. It is interesting and informative ... and persuasive... But also dismaying. (If HE isn't rescuing our children, who will be?!) I'll wait and learn. ( and shut up about it.)

Blogger Avalanche May 03, 2018 9:40 AM  

(there was "G" ("grin," however rueful it was) before that "shut up about it." Apparently the braces did make it invisible.)

Blogger Alphaeus May 03, 2018 9:54 AM  

"You too live your life according to the coherence theory insofar as you act in accordance with your Christian beliefs. "

Maybe "Coherence Theory" is incoherent as promulgated by its adherents? Just because I believe in being coherent in my communications, does that make me a disciple of "Coherence Theory?"

Blogger Rabid Ratel May 03, 2018 12:17 PM  

Wynn Lloyd wrote:He's encouraging his followers to contract rabies. Nothing worse than that, if you don't get it treated. 99.9999% death rate.

Some cats shouldn't be petted

Blogger John May 03, 2018 2:35 PM  

(((Wikipedia)))

Vox just found out about coherence theories and is just flailing around like a beta at Bucknell.

Wikipedia and snake insults. Lol. Intellectually shallow.

Blogger John May 03, 2018 2:42 PM  

“Yes, he has done some good for some unfortunates. So did Mussolini, Hitler, and L. Ron Hubbard“

This is what you call logic? Jesus Christ this is beyond embarrassing. I hope you don’t come across Wikipedia’s logical fallacies page. Facepalm.

Blogger Alphaeus May 03, 2018 3:35 PM  

"“Yes, he has done some good for some unfortunates. So did Mussolini, Hitler, and L. Ron Hubbard“
This is what you call logic?"

I think his point is that a lot of people got well paying jobs as concentration camp guards who would otherwise have been unemployable. Or where L Ron Hubbard is concerned a lot of people made gobs of money selling Scientology who would have otherwise been homeless.

So, face palm your self, dummy.

Blogger SirHamster May 03, 2018 3:39 PM  

Avalanche wrote:(If HE isn't rescuing our children, who will be?!)

I sense lack of faith in the God-Emperor. For goodness sake, crazy or not, he's a Canuck!

Blogger VD May 03, 2018 8:37 PM  

This is what you call logic? Jesus Christ this is beyond embarrassing. I hope you don’t come across Wikipedia’s logical fallacies page. Facepalm.

Yes. Specifically which logical fallacy do you believe has been committed here. Be specific.

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