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Tuesday, May 22, 2018

More FBI "bungling"

After all, Jordan Peterson himself has assured us that one should never assume malevolence when stupidity can explain an action. I mean, only stupidity could explain why top FBI officials would discuss their secret investigations with CNN executives, right?
E-mails Show FBI Brass Discussed Dossier Briefing Details With CNN

New e-mails show former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe was surprisingly knowledgeable about CNN's understanding of and deliberation about a dossier briefing given to Donald Trump days before CNN ever reported on the matter.

Newly revealed e-mails show that former Federal Bureau Investigation (FBI) deputy director Andrew McCabe was keenly aware of CNN’s internal understanding of a secret briefing about the infamous Steele dossier, days before CNN published any stories on the matter. The e-mails, which were obtained by Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), also reveal that top officials used coded language to refer to the salacious and unverified allegations made by Steele.
Peterson's "general rule of thumb" is a false dilemma. There is no contradiction between evil and stupidity. Evil comes in many forms, most of them stupid, some of them intelligent.

But a better rule of thumb is this: Anyone who claims stupidity is sufficient explanation for malevolence is in league with the malevolent.

If there is one thing I have learned from editing Moira Greyland's book and observing how various scandals have played out over the last five years, it is that the truth is usually worse than the skeptics and conspiracy theorists ever imagine.

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67 Comments:

Blogger insight May 22, 2018 8:11 AM  

"But a better rule of thumb is this: Anyone who claims stupidity is sufficient explanation for malevolence is in league with the malevolent."

Lots of denial over that one in 3...2...1..

Blogger Phillip George May 22, 2018 8:34 AM  

Ceaușescu thought he had it covered. Deepstate had their insurance policy. But they can't keep it.

The piper gets paid.

Blogger Hammerli280 May 22, 2018 8:36 AM  

Peterson? No. That aphorism is attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte, a man who knew his way around political conspiracies.

But there comes a point where stupidity is not an adequate explanation, and the only logical conclusion IS malice. The links between the Democrat Crime Gang and the Propaganda Press are well established, they don't even bother to hide them any longer. The connection to the corrupt FBI and DOJ are becoming clearer and clearer.

The question at this point is how to solve the problem. And whether or not Trump understands that he MUST hit as hard as possible, and strike as high as he can.

Blogger Harris May 22, 2018 8:37 AM  

Vox, this is your playground, and I respect that. Also, I agree that Jordan Peterson is not a man of the Right, politically or culturally speaking. Finally, I understand that you feel the need to fight back against what you perceive as a personal attack. So, I've kept my peace as you've gone off on Peterson. But I think you're missing the point.

At the risk of infuriating you, I'm going to quote from a National Review Article today. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/jordan-peterson-new-york-times-hostility/

"Have we really reached the point where the basic argument that men and women are different, or that free men and women will often make different choices in large part because they are different, or that religion and ancient traditions can inform and guide our lives today, are now so toxic that their advocates must and should face a relentless campaign to drive them from the public square?"

"If Peterson were writing to a Christian audience, he’d be one voice among many. An interesting and quirky voice, to be sure, but his core message about men and women would be conventional, not revelatory. Instead, however, Peterson stands out because he is playing in the Left’s cultural sandbox. He’s disrupting an emerging secular cultural monopoly with arguments about history, tradition, and the deep truths about human nature that the cultural radicals had long thought they’d banished to the fringe."

"That’s the reason for the fury. That’s the reason for the rage. When Peterson walks into a secular university or a secular television studio and addresses a secular audience by referencing ancient theological arguments, the effect is not unlike inviting a genderqueer women’s-studies professor to a Baptist Sunday-school class. Some things (in some places) are just not said."

"Then, when people actually respond to that message, the shock is even more seismic. It’s difficult to overstate the extent to which the Left has long been (and, crucially, felt) culturally ascendant in America’s secular spaces. The academy, pop culture, mainstream media, corporate America — all of these spaces have drunk deeply of the Left’s cultural Kool-Aid, especially when it comes to matters of sex and gender."

So, from my perspective, all of your arguments against Peterson because he's not a "true" person of the Right are off base. The reason Peterson is having the impact he's having is precisely because he's a person of the Left (not surprising since his an academic psychologist), and his heretical teaching is undermining their argument from their own camp.

This is very similar to the impact that guys like Mark Penn, former Clinton Aide, makes when he does a take-down of the Russia-Trump investigation. http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/388549-stopping-robert-mueller-to-protect-us-all

I don't understand why you are so offended that a left-wing player like Peterson doesn't like the Alt-Right. Of course he doesn't. That isn't his value. His value is that he's a member of the Left-wing who is attacking left-wing dogma.

Blogger Avalanche May 22, 2018 8:39 AM  

"Anyone who claims stupidity is sufficient explanation for malevolence is in league with the malevolent."

Whew. There's another tee shirt, even if it IS too long to fit on one! Right through the heart, though, innit?

Blogger MendoScot May 22, 2018 8:39 AM  

...Steele’s dossier, which was jointly funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

Have any of the MSM talking heads conceded this? I get the impression they are still pushing it as a valid intelligence report.

Blogger cheddarman May 22, 2018 8:44 AM  

God is opposed to the wicked

Blogger cheddarman May 22, 2018 8:45 AM  

God is opposed to the wicked

Blogger MendoScot May 22, 2018 8:45 AM  

FFS Harris, if you don't understand "controlled opposition" you are too short for this ride.

Blogger FrankNorman May 22, 2018 8:52 AM  

Napoleon had another saying, or so I've been told:
"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."

Blogger Shimshon May 22, 2018 9:01 AM  

Harris, James Damore said the same things, but he lost his job. Why is that?

Blogger Rigel Kent May 22, 2018 9:15 AM  

I recently read The Last Closet, which prompted me to research other sf figures that were involved in pedophilia related matters. This led me to David Asimov. (This may seem ot, but bear with me.)

David Asimov was found to have the largest collection of child porn in California history. He also had very advanced video equipment. Make your own guesses as to what that was for, as the investigators at the time chose not to draw any conclusions. The stash was so large that the local prosecutor decided it needed to be handled by federal authorities, so he dropped all state charges against Asimov and let the local US attorney take over.

The US Attorney then offered a deal where David Asimov got house arrest and probation for four counts (only four counts out of thousands) of possession of child porn. The name of that US attorney? Robert Mueller.

Blogger Rabbi B May 22, 2018 9:20 AM  

There is no contradiction between evil and stupidity.

The fool says in his heart that there is no God.

And if there is no God, there is no good and objective standard by which any of us can measure our actions, let alone determine the nature of our actions.

There is only One Who is good and Who defines what is good and what is evil. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Fear of the Lord is also to hate evil.

The only real solution is a radical transformation of our minds, a transformation which aligns our minds with the mind of God Who created us and Who has revealed to all men the standards by which we ought to live, not as slaves to our sensuality, but as men who are truly free.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (cf. Romans 12)

Blogger The Kurgan May 22, 2018 9:24 AM  

Indeed.
People almost invariably assume I’m some sort of extremist because I genuinely and routinely state that many of these people really need to be burnt at the stake in a Holy Inquisition.
But the reality is that I am merely more aware of the truth concerning these scum-beings

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 22, 2018 9:31 AM  

Harris wrote:He’s disrupting an emerging secular cultural monopoly with arguments about history, tradition, and the deep truths about human nature that the cultural radicals had long thought they’d banished to the fringe."
Peterson is appearing to disrupt it using arguments based in fundamentals that ultimately lead only to the Cultural Marxist conclusion. Essentially he is telling his audience that
1) God is dead
2) Reality isn't real
3) Truth is meaningless
4) They should sit down, shut up, take their pills, and clean their rooms.

His "disruption" is no such thing, and his arguments lead only to sidelining the Right. Why you would consider NRO as an advocate of the Right is beyond me.

Harris wrote:I don't understand why you are so offended that a left-wing player like Peterson doesn't like the Alt-Right. Of course he doesn't. That isn't his value. His value is that he's a member of the Left-wing who is attacking left-wing dogma.
He's not attacking Left wing dogma. He's telling the Left "You know guys, it's probably better to not force the issues yet."


How can you read his incoherent bafflegab and ludicrous posing and come to the conclusion he is attacking the Left? Oh, that's right, you only watch his videos.

Blogger Ken Prescott May 22, 2018 9:36 AM  

If the question is stupidity or malice, I say that one should embrace the power of "and."

Blogger Arthur Isaac May 22, 2018 9:47 AM  

Was Lon Horiuchi evil or just stupid? The question is moot.

Blogger insight May 22, 2018 9:48 AM  

Sorta OT -

In regards to Peterson's gobbldegook...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-make-people-feel-stupid-drop-jargon-tomas-bay-oleg-vishnepolsky

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 22, 2018 9:54 AM  

@18
Peterson depends on making people feel stupid.

Blogger freddie_mac May 22, 2018 9:54 AM  

@12 Rigel Kent
The US Attorney then offered a deal where David Asimov got house arrest and probation for four counts (only four counts out of thousands) of possession of child porn.

While this is an extreme case, it follows a disturbingly familiar pattern. Perp is dead to rights on charges relating to crimes against children, and punishment is essentially a slap on the wrist. Once is bewildering, twice is confusing, but more than that is (obviously) a deliberate pattern of behavior.

Blogger tz May 22, 2018 10:16 AM  

I forgot the exact quote but it was something like "someone who is in mortal sin cannot think clearly".

Being evil makes one stupid. Sometimes it can be high functioning evil and use technology, but at some point hubris will collapse the whole thing.

It is also why reason and evidence don't work - see the current arguments about Venezuela and socialism. No matter how many examples, no matter how many logical proofs...

That is also why idiots are so useful, because they can be convinced the most monstrous evils being done are actually good.

Good causes self-reflection, Evil causes rationalization.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 22, 2018 10:18 AM  

Really odd “journalism” on the FBI corruption probe. Reduces to a policy that the President can never be the victim of an FBI conspiracy because “muh principles!”

Blogger Wanderer May 22, 2018 10:24 AM  

@4

It's not just that Peterson isn't authentically right wing. It's that he personally claims that nationalism and identitarianism are his enemy, and his main purpose in everything he's doing is to prevent young, disenfranchised men from joining the right so as to prevent another holocaust (never forget the 6 million, goyim). His globalist ties to the UN were just icing on the cake. Peterson is more dangerous to the right than SJW marxists and feminists. SJWs were retards who were waking everybody up whilst Peterson is lulling the goy back to sleep.

Blogger Peter Gent May 22, 2018 10:25 AM  

Rigel Kent wrote:...The US Attorney then offered a deal where David Asimov got house arrest and probation for four counts (only four counts out of thousands) of possession of child porn. The name of that US attorney? Robert Mueller.
That is so outrageous. One more reason this vile man is not to be trusted in any context or venue. Someone ought to research a list of Mueller's similar misdeeds. The man is a wolf in sheepdog clothing. He needs to be exposed.

Blogger Mr. Deficient May 22, 2018 10:43 AM  

To be fair to JBP that had been the number one cuck slogan for most of my life. It's been used as a specific phrase to reinforce the general idea of the left having good intentions etc. Also used frequently to excuse corruption in politics in general. In fact I think it's lil Benjis most qouted phrase with regard to the govnernment and the left.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 22, 2018 11:22 AM  

The Kurgan wrote:People almost invariably assume I’m some sort of extremist because I genuinely and routinely state that many of these people really need to be burnt at the stake in a Holy Inquisition.

If the full truth comes out, you are likely to be attacked as a moderate.

Anonymous Anonymous May 22, 2018 11:30 AM  

Isn't there a translation of Napoleon that includes sloth with stupidity.

Having worked with Hispanics & blacks there are things I would ascribe laziness to instead of stupidity, like the CA dam that broke less than a month after a Hispanic engineer inspected it finding no problems. Not turning patients every 2 hours is not stupidity, nor was the Bhopal India disaster killing 15,000.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 22, 2018 11:40 AM  

``Bungling'' seems to mean ``oops, we're|they're busted.''

bgkoranburner wrote:Having worked with Hispanics & blacks there are things I would ascribe laziness to instead of stupidity,...

Stupid people are much less likely to consider the long-term effects of laziness. Smart and lazy means you find easier ways to get it done. Stupid and lazy means you blow it off.

Blogger OGRE May 22, 2018 12:16 PM  

@4 Harris

The fringe/degenerate/SJW left that JP is set up to fight is a distraction, a feint. They hold no real power and pose no real threat. How much danger is Antifa really? How many are really going to become trannies and kiddy diddlers? Even with the constant media attention these types are an extreme minority fringe and offer no real danger beyond those they can immediately affect. Yes of course they must be fought and opposed, but thats why they are promoted...to give us something to fight and oppose.

And JP comes along to lead us in this fight, with his folksy common sense backed up by academic research and an intellectual's poise. And not only does he help in furthering the distraction, he also lays groundwork for the real agendas. He presents an acceptable way to integrate Christianity without Christ, he creates spiritualism out of materialism, he promotes rampant individualism that supports globalism. Thus while hes rightfully fighting the fringe left (as hes intended to be doing), he makes acceptable the underlying suppositions that promote the globalist philosophy.

Think of it this way: hes fighting the world of Orwell's 1984, but in the process he would bring about Huxley's Brave New World.

Blogger Beau May 22, 2018 12:17 PM  

If the full truth comes out, you are likely to be attacked as a moderate.

Laughed, I did.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums May 22, 2018 12:18 PM  

@4

The things Peterson says that are disruptive to the left are things other people with more prominence said before him and were pilloried in every which way possible.

I have never seen anyone rise to such a media presence in such a short amount of time. In less than two years he jumped from a nobody college professor on YouTube to international fame.

If the Overton window is shifting to include people who espouse the same talking points as JP how come JP is the only one we're seeing put front and center?

I was optimistic at first as well, thinking JP was fighting against the narrative; "BREAKING THE CONDITIONING" as Alex Jones might say. But something peculiar happened around the time he went on Maher: he started attacking the right directly.

I have listened to a ridiculous amount of JP talks and he never once called himself left-wing or right-wing. In fact several times in his videos he mentions the Big 5 personality traits and explains how he's high in conscientiousness (a right-wing trait as he puts it) but also high in openness (a left-wing trait). He openly attacks the Canadian liberal government then points out he was a member of he socialist party in his youth. His house is filled with communist propaganda paintings... which he bought off of eBay.

You'll notice this trend soon enough with Peterson fans: right-leaning ones only remember his right-wing talking points and think he's on their side, left-leaning ones only remember his left-wing talking points and think he's on their side. The guy is a radical fence-sitter and the audience just picks what they like and ignore the rest.

You might think that his work is benefiting us in some way but keep in mind that the opposition thinks the exact same thing.

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 22, 2018 12:28 PM  

So what conspiracy theory and weirdness isn't true? At this point little would surprise me except maybe seeing the Deep State actors punished. I'll believe that when I see the Podestas of the world in Gitmo.

Blogger AaMcavoy May 22, 2018 1:04 PM  

Rigel Kent wrote:
He also had very advanced video equipment. Make your own guesses as to what that was for, as the investigators at the time chose not to draw any conclusions...

The US Attorney then offered a deal where David Asimov got house arrest and probation for four counts (only four counts out of thousands) of possession of child porn. The name of that US attorney? Robert Mueller.


Was Mueller buying Asimov's silence?

Blogger Akulkis May 22, 2018 1:22 PM  

@Brick Hardslab

Don't you mean the Pedostas?

Blogger Playto May 22, 2018 2:06 PM  

If not for the MSM propping Peterson up, he would be far less popular. And his cult following is bizarre. They seem completely infatuated with him, regardless of what he's actually done. What I find extremely alarming is the fact that none care about him being a globalist and a UN shill. When the news really, truly comes to light, we'll see just how many people, even people on the right, continue to support him. It'll be most. And then it will be clear that we nationalists are truly alone. The future is a Bladerunner-style multicultural technocracy and alarmingly impersonal.

Blogger Jamie-R May 22, 2018 2:10 PM  

In the end, it took a Republican playing to win to shake off an establishment comfortable with conservative useful idiots and lefties playing 4d chess with them. Trump has blown the hinges off conspiracy & mainstreamed stuff even I didn't consider 10 years ago. It makes me laugh about Ron Paul 2008 though, he had no chance. I remember him on CNN & I thought they were playing with his audio, making it go up and down to make him appear unhinged, well, I was right. But how deep it went. Oh boy....

Blogger Playto May 22, 2018 2:13 PM  

Fuzzums, you do a good job highlighting the fact that he is obvious controlled opposition. He's being artificially propped up. I'm Australian, and he appears in virtually every one of my news feeds. It never ends. No one else enjoys the same level of insane popularity. He's probably bigger than Trump at this stage. It's absurd.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia May 22, 2018 2:32 PM  

tz wrote:I forgot the exact quote but it was something like "someone who is in mortal sin cannot think clearly".

Being evil makes one stupid. Sometimes it can be high functioning evil and use technology, but at some point hubris will collapse the whole thing.

It is also why reason and evidence don't work - see the current arguments about Venezuela and socialism. No matter how many examples, no matter how many logical proofs...

That is also why idiots are so useful, because they can be convinced the most monstrous evils being done are actually good.

Good causes self-reflection, Evil causes rationalization.


This.

Except for the truly psychopathic -- a certain sub-genre of a Sigma gone horribly wrong(think Ted Bundy, or in fiction a Hannibal Lecter) -- sins are ALWAYS justified by rationalizations.

Few people engaging in Evil think that THEY are evil. The Deep Staters truly believe that Trump is dangerous, and must be stopped. They truly think that HE is evil.

Thus all actions are rationalized. And their conscience remains clear, because their conscience is warped.

Blogger Rigel Kent May 22, 2018 3:45 PM  

AaMcavoy wrote:Rigel Kent wrote:

He also had very advanced video equipment. Make your own guesses as to what that was for, as the investigators at the time chose not to draw any conclusions...

The US Attorney then offered a deal where David Asimov got house arrest and probation for four counts (only four counts out of thousands) of possession of child porn. The name of that US attorney? Robert Mueller.


Was Mueller buying Asimov's silence?


I don't know, but the bare facts alone are enough to make anyone very suspicious.

Blogger Taignobias May 22, 2018 4:22 PM  

And neither the malicious nor the stupid should hold power or authority.

Blogger OneWingedShark May 22, 2018 4:45 PM  

Harris wrote:I don't understand why you are so offended that a left-wing player like Peterson doesn't like the Alt-Right. Of course he doesn't. That isn't his value. His value is that he's a member of the Left-wing who is attacking left-wing dogma.
Mr. Harris, I think you fundamentally misunderstand the issues in-play. Because both of what I quoted above, and the portion of National Review you quoted, so I will put it to you in the plainest, truthfully brutal way.

Jordan Peterson is not an ally of civilization, but rather is in-league with those who wish to destroy the very concept of nationhood. Take, for instance, the "clean your room/be productive members of society" spiel -- these are prescriptive, not for a better life, but for ignoring the real deep-seated problems.

'Incels' and the unemployeed are a big problem for the ruling-classes -- thousands of young men that are not involved in civilization via offspring and family are a recipe for those very ruling-classes to be killed, this is because marriage is civilization and these masses of unwanted men represent something gone horribly wrong.

Then, consider the H1B situation in the US -- "MASSIVE industry-wide H1B fraud; which makes sense if you're at all concerned with the 'conspiracy'* that foreigners are being brought in to replace native-citizens because not only does it get more foreign bodies in-country, but (a) it deprives Citizens of even the opportunity to make a decent wage; (b) it distracts people from forming a mob, concerning them with persistent unemployment; (c) it deprives normally productive citizens of savings; and (d) demoralizes a huge chunk of "fighting age" men. * It seems pretty obvious, at this point, that it's not a "conspiracy theory"; if it's not flat-out conspiracy it has the effects thereof."

Combine the last two paragraphs and you begin to see the big picture: the elites are replacing the people, replacing their civilization, and Peterson'e solution is NOT to fight? Rather it's to go along with the societal flow? -- THAT is why Peterson is evil.

Remember: A proper response to injustice is ANGER.

Blogger Joseph Maroney May 22, 2018 5:16 PM  

"After all, Jordan Peterson himself has assured us that one should never assume malevolence when stupidity can explain an action.

They do like to feign stupidity to cover up their evil. The part he plays in the scheme is perfectly in line with him being a globalist shill.

Blogger Crew May 22, 2018 5:18 PM  

Seems there is some possibility that some of the people shot in Friday's school shooting were shot by cops.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5755029/Were-Santa-Fe-victims-killed-cops.html

Blogger OneWingedShark May 22, 2018 5:35 PM  

Crew wrote:Seems there is some possibility that some of the people shot in Friday's school shooting were shot by cops.
I saw that. There's also some "interesting" video evidence that suggests the police could have been "the shooter" in the whole Sunland Park shooting. (Police loading gear into a white/unmarked pickup + the teacher's recounting "armor" + "rifle I've never seen before".)

Blogger tublecane May 22, 2018 6:03 PM  

@24- While I think Mueller should be looked into and burned down, people generally make a mistake by focusing on him. He is after all merely a figurehead brought in to "front" an ongoing conspiracy against Trump.

It went from opposition research to conspiracy to overthrow the president probably with all the same people.

Blogger TNPapist May 22, 2018 9:02 PM  

The saying Peterson referenced is about thinking the best of others as much as the established facts allow at the time, rather than excusing people's behavior. I don't know how Peterson is trying to use the saying.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 22, 2018 9:03 PM  

TNPapist wrote:I don't know how Peterson is trying to use the saying.
Anything to keep the young men from getting angry about being castrated, dispossessed and marginalized.

Blogger DaveElectric May 22, 2018 10:49 PM  

"There is no contradiction between evil and stupidity. Evil comes in many forms, most of them stupid, some of them intelligent."

Completely disagree with this notion. What do you even mean by "intelligence" here? By "intelligent" do you mean possessing mental faculties or do you mean rationality? See cause these are not necessarily the same thing. It's one thing to have a brain that can perceive reality and come up with solutions to problems. It's another thing entirely to be an unflinching servant to the Truth.

Evil can be intelligent, but evil can never be fully rational because to be purely rational you have to have absolute loyalty to the truth. An evil person cannot have absolute loyalty to the truth because they either want to deceive or they want do violence against those capable of grasping deception. It is simply a low resolution statement to say that evil and intelligence do not contradict each other. The only way you can say such a thing is if you reduce the whole notion of "intelligience" to mere mental faculties and not an ethical principle. True rationality is an ethical principle. Not a mere mental faculty.

It also begs the question of why you choose to be a person of good will. Are you a person of good will because you have a rational reason for being good? Yes? No? If yes then it is logically inconsistent for you to seriously claim that evil is rational. If no then how do you even know you are practicing "good"? Without truth; without reason you cannot know are genuinely doing anything good.

Blogger tublecane May 22, 2018 11:20 PM  

@48- Are you Jordan Peterson? Because this post sounds like his sort mushy definition-shifting thought.

You know very well what it means to be intelligent. Intelligent people aren't necessarily moral.

Nobody is purely rational, but to be so theoretically wouldn't mean you'd have to serve truth. It would just mean you're capable of thinking sensibly with reason and logic. You're adding a moral dimension that's not inherent.

Blogger DaveElectric May 22, 2018 11:48 PM  

Of course rationality has an inherent moral dimension to it. Nobody of common sense calls a person who picks and choose what parts of reality they want to know about a truly rational person. It's you people who are definition shifting.

If I knife my eyes out am I intelligent? Yes? No? If no then you agree that true intelligence requires loyalty to the truth If yes then you have extended whole notion of intelligence to the point of absurdity where doing things that deprive you of information can somehow still count as intelligence.

Blogger DaveElectric May 22, 2018 11:53 PM  

I'm actually arguing against both Peterson and Vox Day here. Both of these men believe that a person can be both evil and perfectly rational. Peterson argues this same idea during the Matt Dillahunty debate.

Blogger tublecane May 23, 2018 12:47 AM  

@50- "Nobody of common sense calls a person who picks and choose what parts of reality they want to know about a truly rational person."

Your common sense isn't very common. Unless we're talking about superhuman rationality--think Mr. Spock--no, selective knowledge falls within the realm of rationality. We're only human.

Some degree of willful ignorance would preclude one from being considered rational. But not such a small amount that you couldn't also be considered both evil AND rational.

That is, assuming evil requires willful ignorance. But there isn't any reason a person couldn't know the full truth of everything, including morality, and choose to act evilly. There's no necessary connection between knowledge and acting good.



Funny you should bring up knifing out your eyes. That's what Oedipus did when he learned the Truth about how he killed his father and married his mother. Though terrifying, knowledge was necessary in the Oedipus myth to save Thebes, of which he was king. Because so long as Oedipus reigned, the city was cursed with a plague. (Or whatever it was; it's been a while since I read it.)

He could have abdicated and wandered the earth without losing his sight, of course. It wasn't a smart thing to do. But intelligent people can do harmful things, and Oedipus was the man who solved the riddle of the Sphinx. Not a dummy.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( Creepy Joe Biden always asks for consent before changing your baby's diaper ) May 23, 2018 1:09 AM  

49. tublecane May 22, 2018 11:20 PM
You know very well what it means to be intelligent.


if he actually required Vox to define "intelligent" for him, he would likewise require Vox to define "stupid".

you notice how he didn't request that definition?


50. DaveElectric May 22, 2018 11:48 PM
If I knife my eyes out am I intelligent? Yes? No?


retards are often confused by the False Dichotomy.

Blogger DaveElectric May 23, 2018 4:18 AM  

"Your common sense isn't very common. Unless we're talking about superhuman rationality--think Mr. Spock--no, selective knowledge falls within the realm of rationality. We're only human."

So in other words, you think the common sense notion of rationality is: pay attention to what is convenient for you to know and ignore anything that is not convenient for you to know. In other words the non-lover of knowledge is equally as rational as the lover of knowledge? Sounds like corruption if you ask me.

"That is, assuming evil requires willful ignorance. But there isn't any reason a person couldn't know the full truth of everything, including morality, and choose to act evilly. There's no necessary connection between knowledge and acting good. "

First of all, there is no such thing as knowing the full truth of everything. It is irrational to conclude that you know everything and do not need the input of others. A rational being does not deprive himself of the input of other people.
Second, rationality is not merely the possession of knowledge. It is the love of knowledge. It is the consistent pursuit of knowledge. This is the freaking problem. You, Vox Day, Jordan Peterson go around claiming that rationality can be evil yet you are not talking about any Platonic notion of rationality. No, you're talking about some imperfect selective form of rationality. If we are going to talk about horses we are going to talk about the perfect ideal of a horse: not a 3 legged, fat, 2 headed, genetic mutant version of a horse. You guys will analyze the mutant version of the horse and think you have knowledge of horses. This is sophistry.


"He could have abdicated and wandered the earth without losing his sight, of course. It wasn't a smart thing to do. But intelligent people can do harmful things, and Oedipus was the man who solved the riddle of the Sphinx. Not a dummy. "

Is Oedipus the Platonic ideal of a rational being? Yes or no?


"retards are often confused by the False Dichotomy."

Oh so knifing your eyes out can be SORTA rational right?

Blogger TM Lutas May 23, 2018 6:28 AM  

@31 I have seen Jordan Peterson refer to himself as a centrist, which makes VD's assault on him as not a true person of the right kind of funny.

The alt-right recurring narrative generally seems to include the idea that the mainstream right does not actually want to win thus justifying the existence of an alternative right. I am deeply sympathetic to this critique. In fact, I think it's correct.

But you don't win the culture and political power by playing purity games where self-described centrists are regularly eviscerated for not being authentic people of the right. That's how you create an isolated band of power game losers and that role is already being played by too much of the mainstream right. There's no need for another one.

Jordon Peterson seems to be attempting to break the centrists off from reflexive alliance to the left and hoping to create a muscular middle that makes up its own mind. That's not a project that the right can give full throated approval to but it's certainly a step up from having the center allied to the left and banishing the right to the outer darkness which describes too much of society today in the West.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( Creepy Joe Biden always asks for consent before changing your baby's diaper ) May 23, 2018 8:05 AM  

54. DaveElectric May 23, 2018 4:18 AM
Oh so knifing your eyes out can be SORTA rational right?


the first time you asked this question, you asked if it demonstrated "intelligence", now you ask if it demonstrates "rationality".

you and your Muh False Dichotomy are not going to confuse many people here.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/intelligence?s=t

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rational?s=t

not to mention, yes, i can imagine multiple scenarios in which such action could be "rational" or "intelligent".

say for instance, that you've been diagnosed with malignant cancer in the eyes and you need to have them out before it metastasizes.

or maybe you're just a radical masochist.

i could go on, but your example doesn't demonstrate anything that you claim that it does and most of your conundrums arise because you don't understand how to speak the language. or claim not to, anyways.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2018 10:57 AM  

@48 DaveElectric
"There is no contradiction between evil and stupidity. Evil comes in many forms, most of them stupid, some of them intelligent."

Completely disagree with this notion. What do you even mean by "intelligence" here?


Exactly. It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is, of course.

Leaving aside the pointless, low-effort attempt at deconstruction/ pilpul for a moment, this is an interesting insight into the intense need that so many midwit leftists have to be seen as both intellectually and morally superior to anyone who disagrees with the progressive establishment dogma that they repeatedly regurgitate -- they think that "intelligence" and "morality" are the same thing. That being smarter than someone else automatically makes you morally superior to them somehow. Huh?

Thanks for explicating that so clearly. Leftists are weird.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2018 11:20 AM  

@31 Wuzzums Fuzzums
@4

The things Peterson says that are disruptive to the left are things other people with more prominence said before him and were pilloried in every which way possible.

I have never seen anyone rise to such a media presence in such a short amount of time. In less than two years he jumped from a nobody college professor on YouTube to international fame


Hey, he "went viral," you know. What's so hard to understand about that? Who are we to qurstion the details of how someone, or something, "goes viral?" That would be like questioning why certain events are self-evidently "newsworthy," while others are, just as obviously, memory hole-worthy. Simply not done, old chap.

Blogger FUBARwest May 23, 2018 11:24 AM  

"Jordon Peterson seems to be attempting to break the centrists off from reflexive alliance to the left and hoping to create a muscular middle that makes up its own mind. That's not a project that the right can give full throated approval to but it's certainly a step up from having the center allied to the left and banishing the right to the outer darkness which describes too much of society today in the West."

The UN is center? Do what thou wilt is center? Please actually address the criticism when trolling otherwise you look really really dumb.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2018 11:24 AM  

@9 MendoScot
FFS Harris, if you don't understand "controlled opposition" you are too short for this ride

But kosher sandwiches are yummy, though.

Blogger VD May 23, 2018 1:01 PM  

But you don't win the culture and political power by playing purity games where self-described centrists are regularly eviscerated for not being authentic people of the right. That's how you create an isolated band of power game losers and that role is already being played by too much of the mainstream right. There's no need for another one.

Jordan Peterson is not a centrist. Jordan Peterson is a globalist and an enemy. Failing to identify the enemy is not a reliable strategy for success either.

Blogger VD May 23, 2018 1:02 PM  

The saying Peterson referenced is about thinking the best of others as much as the established facts allow at the time, rather than excusing people's behavior. I don't know how Peterson is trying to use the saying.

And another Peterson defender kindly offering to "interpret" what Peterson really means for us. Give it up. We figured him out.

Blogger TM Lutas May 23, 2018 2:24 PM  

@61 If you're feeling like taking requests, I don't think I've ever heard or read your personal definition of what a centrist is. Could you provide a link to one or lay out what you believe an authentic centrist is?

My own would not eliminate Peterson as a centrist based on what I know about him. I suspect that without definitions we definitely will be talking past each other. I suspect you don't really care about my opinion of what a centrist is leaving the only way to have meaningful communication being for me to adapt to your version when we correspond.

Blogger TM Lutas May 23, 2018 2:35 PM  

@59 The centrist will reach out to the left and the right as far as they are comfortable and work with them, trying to form a broad coalition of the middle and leaving the howling fringe gnashing its teeth in the outer darkness. This is how they view things in my opinion.

I believe that an awful lot of centrists are willing to stretch out to work with the UN and view them as being part of the responsible left.

It doesn't matter what my opinion is of the UN. I'm not a centrist. That makes my opinion not relevant to any analysis of centrist aims and behavior.

For the record, the UN is a system of institutions, many of which will need to be continued after the corrupt mess is brought to the ground such as the maintenance of world weather reports so we minimize weather disasters like plane crashes, international telephony, and cooperation on contagious diseases. That makes the UN a mixed bag. Its most famous political branches are all very bad. Some of its technical branches are also bad. Part of the problem with the UN is that you can't even do a reasonable cleanup on the bad technical branches.

In a world of strong nation states, we will need something to provide the skeleton infrastructure for useful cooperation so we don't all create disaster via poor coordination. It doesn't have to be called the UN, but the necessary functions will always remain just that, necessary.

Blogger tublecane May 23, 2018 3:52 PM  

@55- "there is no such thing as knowing the truth of everything"

I agree.

"It is irrational to conclude that you know everything and do not need the input of others"

Okay, but I'm saying if you *could* know everything, it wouldn't be irrational to act immorally.

"rationality is not merely the possession of knowledge"

I know.

"It is the love of knowledge."

No it isn't. Philosophy is the love of knowledge, literally.

"You are not talking about any Platonic notion of rationality."

Why should I? I have a realistic view of it, which allows for some level of selectivity and willful ignorance.

You yourself just shied away from the Platonic Idea of Knowledge because it's outside the power of human beings to know everything. They need help. Well, it's also impossible for human beings to be perfectly rational.

If you want to say all men are irrational for falling short of the ideal, that isn't a bad idea. However, in common parlance nothing like Platonic Ideal of Rationality is required to be considered rational.

"Is Oedipus the Platonic ideal of a rational being?"

Who cares? Why are we even talking about this?

Blogger tublecane May 23, 2018 3:52 PM  

@65- Sorry, that was supposed to be @54.

Blogger Rabid Ratel May 24, 2018 11:35 AM  

TM Lutas wrote:For the record, the UN is a system of institutions, many of which will need to be continued after the corrupt mess is brought to the ground such as the maintenance of world weather reports so we minimize weather disasters like plane crashes, international telephony, and cooperation on contagious diseases. That makes the UN a mixed bag. Its most famous political branches are all very bad. Some of its technical branches are also bad. Part of the problem with the UN is that you can't even do a reasonable cleanup on the bad technical branches.

In a world of strong nation states, we will need something to provide the skeleton infrastructure for useful cooperation so we don't all create disaster via poor coordination. It doesn't have to be called the UN, but the necessary functions will always remain just that, necessary.


The UN needs to be burned to the ground, preferably with the current incumbents inside. It is but an enabler for the evil of the globalists, and no good can ever come of it.

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