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Monday, May 14, 2018

One-sided war

This is not what "winning the moral level of war" looks like:
Israeli snipers kill scores of Palestinians and wound 2,400 as 35,000 protesters rally against the US Embassy opening in Jerusalem overseen by Trump's Middle East envoy Jared Kushner and daughter Ivanka.

A 14-year-old was among 52 shot dead along the Gaza border on what is already the deadliest single day in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since a 2014 war between the Jewish state and Gaza's Islamist rulers Hamas.

At least 2,400 more have been injured with hundreds of them by live bullets, according to Gaza officials as the Palestinian government accused Israel of committing a 'terrible massacre' and Amnesty International called the bloodshed an 'abhorrent violation' of human rights.
Moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem is the right thing to do. It is not the responsibility of the US government to decide where a nation's capital is located. But whatever Israeli general is responsible for handling the protesters is making a complete hash of it. If Israel was looking for foreign support in its desired war-by-proxy against Iran, this is most certainly not going to help.

I don't know why Israel hasn't established a separate gendarmerie for handling the West Bank and Gaza, because military history strongly suggests that using soldiers as police tends to fail as brutally as using police as soldiers does. And, as Martin van Creveld has repeatedly observed, one-sided war tends to have a demoralizing effect on the winner.

And, of course, it is reprehensible that so many New Israelis should be treated so violently when all they are seeking is a better life for them and their children on the other side of the fence. Especially when the Israeli economy would benefit so greatly from embracing 35,000 new citizens.

Labels: ,

179 Comments:

Blogger rws May 14, 2018 1:14 PM  

I gotta gets me sum o' dem "live" boolits, man.

Blogger Salt May 14, 2018 1:18 PM  

This is a no-win situation. The protesters, 35K strong, know this behavior will not be well taken. This isn't the US's southern border, and they're up against Israelis after all. A gendarmerie for the West Bank and Gaza? The Mayor of London would approve.

Blogger Basta Con La Droga May 14, 2018 1:26 PM  

Great news. Another 4,000,000 to go, roughly.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 14, 2018 1:34 PM  

If the Israelis are going to kill a few dozen, they might as well get it over with and kill them all. A few dozen deaths are a tragedy, a complete genocide is a statistic. The Hutu and Turks know all about that.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 14, 2018 1:40 PM  

I'm not particularly pro or anti Israel, but this strikes me as a far more justifiable action than bombing targets within Syria. Although I admit I might have a different opinion of the bombings of Syrian targets if I knew more about the particulars of those strikes.

Blogger Johnny May 14, 2018 1:41 PM  

I suspect that if I looked into it I would find that the Palestines have about as good a moral case as the Israelis. The only problem I have with the Palestines is that they don't seem to want an agreement unless it is 100% of what they want.

What surprises me is that Israel has not put up a better barrier or fence. That would keep the body count down and be better for PR.

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 1:45 PM  

This is a moral battle and the the Palestinians are winning it, and the behavior of the Izzis is not being taken well by decent people.

Blogger Rabbi B May 14, 2018 1:47 PM  

I suspect that if I looked into it I would find that the Palestines have about as good a moral case as the Israelis.

Look into it. They do not. The Palestinians are a fictional construct.

Blogger freddie_mac May 14, 2018 1:49 PM  

At least 2,400 more have been injured with hundreds of them by live bullets

Note that even live bullets aren't keeping them back. It seems to me that the Israelis started out using non-lethal measures, and have moved up to lethal force to increase the deterrent effect. As an armchair observer, I'm not surprised that Israel is using lethal force, but I wonder what sort of propaganda is going on in Gaza, etc. to create these never-ending crowds of cannon fodder.

@6 Johnny
What surprises me is that Israel has not put up a better barrier or fence. That would keep the body count down and be better for PR.

True; a less permeable barrier would be much better, so I'm curious at the reasoning for this omission.

Blogger Jimmy Glover May 14, 2018 1:50 PM  

According to the Daily Caller, protestors were trying to place bombs at the fence, and their gunmen were opening fire. And the IDF warned they would not be allowed to breach the barrier.

One interviewed said he would be glad to throw rocks and kill, whatever necessary to disrupt. While I'm sorry for the child, I'm finding it hard to pity the rest.

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 1:52 PM  

I suspect that if I looked into it I would find that the Palestines have about as good a moral case as the Israelis. The only problem I have with the Palestines is that they don't seem to want an agreement unless it is 100% of what they want.

I heard the same thing...from pro zio sources. I could buy that the Palestinian leadership feels this way, but the rank and file? It's nonsense.

What surprises me is that Israel has not put up a better barrier or fence. That would keep the body count down and be better for PR.

This is Israel we are talking about, the body count may be the point.

Blogger Warunicorn May 14, 2018 1:53 PM  

"And, of course, it is reprehensible that so many New Israelis should be treated so violently when all they are seeking is a better life for them and their children on the other side of the fence. Especially when the Israeli economy would benefit so greatly from embracing 35,000 new citizens."

I chuckled, hard. xD

Also, what is a 14-year-old doing protesting? It reeks of agitprop to me. (Then again, they are muzzies. They start young, after all.)

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 1:54 PM  

Look into it. They do not. The Palestinians are a fictional construct.

I don't think you want to go down that path. By that standard, so are the Israelis, who have no historical claim on most of the land of Israel, only that which was allotted to the tribe of Judah. And that's without getting into the European DNA of the Ashkenazim.

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 1:55 PM  

You know what people mean when they say Palestinian kijiu. In any case targeting children is not acceptable, not to thoses of us who didn't drink cohenn juice.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 1:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 2:00 PM  

As real or imagined as the Hashemites in Jordan. At what point, the ocupiers become the new natives. What is the time period?

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 2:00 PM  

If even half of what Abby Martin says about gaza is true, Palestinians have nothing to lose but their lives. They are taking Gandhi tactics the extreme because they don't see any other option.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 2:03 PM  

Do you mean the Old Testament, retard?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 2:03 PM  

@Robert Browning,
I don't know why Vox hasn't banned your bare attempts to derail every single conversation to the subject of your monomania, but your aggressive lies and blatant hatred are tiresome and, frankly, boring. I feel stupider every time I accidentally start to read one of your screeds.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 14, 2018 2:04 PM  

Meimou wrote:In any case targeting children is not acceptable, not to thoses of us who didn't drink cohenn juice.

Nits make lice. It is always right and proper to kill mohammedans.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 2:05 PM  

I can't decide if @Robert Browning is a Moslem or Atheist posing as a Christian, or if he's a paid Hasbara Jew troll, trying to discredit the alt-Right.

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 2:06 PM  

Go away, Robert Browning. Snidely is right. You are beyond tedious. No more commenting here.

OpenID bgkoranburner May 14, 2018 2:07 PM  

I am surprised there are not younger dead given moslems use of children as shields.

Is there any way we could get the jews that own media outlets in the US to have the same type of coverage of black/brown kids being shot in the back no matter if it is on Israel's border or ours?

Look into it. They do not. The Palestinians are a fictional construct

I guess that means the arab rent boys used by members of the Knesset don't count as a sin.


related to invaders HOLY AFFIRMATIVE ACTION HAT TRICK BATMAN

Crane driver drove away from 5 day old FL collapsed bridge. No listing of drivers name.

Builder & inspector both wetbacks

"a large white crane that had been working at the doomed Florida International University bridge lurched away down Tamiami Trail shortly after the span collapsed"

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article210817789.html

Blogger Unknown May 14, 2018 2:07 PM  

I learned a long time ago to take any news reported about conflict between "Palestinians" and Israel with a very large grain of salt. Palestinians have a very active media arm that they have used for many years to dupe the gullible press into applying pressure on Israel. Those of you who remember the Muhammad al-Durrah incident from 2002, that was 100% a media op by Palestinians.

I have zero doubt that the Israelis were exercising restraint, right up until the Palestinians started shooting, or started throwing explosives. Even then, the IDF has a habit of using suppressed Ruger 10/22s for crowds like this, so they can be surgical and unnoticed when they face violent mobs, so anyone killed likely had it coming.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 2:09 PM  

VD wrote:No more commenting here.
Cue gamma comment flood in 5...4...3...

Blogger Brett baker May 14, 2018 2:14 PM  

Or resettlement in Iran?;)

Blogger MickDundee May 14, 2018 2:16 PM  

Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space.

Blogger Looking Glass May 14, 2018 2:17 PM  

Area-denial slime cannons. Render hundreds of meters of an area into a slip'n'slide, then release videos of the bomb throwers doing pratfalls. Add Benny Hill music just to increase the insult for Social Media.

In an age of Media, much of the Moral level happens with Optics, and no one takes seriously someone that is doing pratfalls while trying to throw a rock. It's much like pants-ing a wanna be bully.

I wonder if you can patent this type of tech.

I wonder if there are any non-lethal weapon design RFPs out there right now...

Blogger Jehu May 14, 2018 2:17 PM  

VD, I'm curious as to what you'd suggest the IDF do, given that they have a wall and their opponents are willing to take casualties to breach it? How do you defend a wall at the moral level of warfare. Don't take these questions as rhetorical, I'd like to know what the best practice is. I'm pretty confident it's not my first impulse (a disperse you villains warning followed by grapeshot).

Blogger Shimshon May 14, 2018 2:18 PM  

"I don't know why Israel hasn't established a separate gendarmerie for handling the West Bank and Gaza..."

In the case of Gaza, Israel withdrew, so how would you respond differently? If you were to say, reoccupy it, I would be right there with you, as would Moshe Feiglin.

I believe it is as you describe in Judea and Samaria. Well, does Shabak count as gendarmerie? They and the police are backed by combat soldiers in raids, but the military is just there to protect the law enforcement personnel.

I don't know if Israel's behavior is a moral offense in the way you think to the people that matter. No one cares what Europeans think (they sure showed Trump on Iran, didn't they?). Asians probably consider their own restive minorities and want to study how Israel deals with ours.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 2:18 PM  

MickDundee wrote:Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space.
According to the ads, I would have to go see a doctor after 6 hours

Blogger Brett baker May 14, 2018 2:20 PM  

Enough people don't care about facts when it's jooooos. The Palestinians could set off an A- bomb in Tel Aviv and it would be "false flag".

Blogger Brett baker May 14, 2018 2:21 PM  

Enough people don't care about facts when it's jooooos. The Palestinians could set off an A- bomb in Tel Aviv and it would be "false flag".

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 2:26 PM  

I learned a long time ago to take any news reported about conflict between subhumans and "Israel" with a very large grain of salt. Askenazishave a very active media arm that they have used for many years to dupe the gullible goyim into applying pressure on the world. Those of you who remember the war in Syria from last week,that was 100% a media op by Zion.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 2:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Looking Glass May 14, 2018 2:30 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:MickDundee wrote:Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space.

According to the ads, I would have to go see a doctor after 6 hours


You really should see a doctor after about 3 hours.

Jehu wrote:VD, I'm curious as to what you'd suggest the IDF do, given that they have a wall and their opponents are willing to take casualties to breach it? How do you defend a wall at the moral level of warfare. Don't take these questions as rhetorical, I'd like to know what the best practice is. I'm pretty confident it's not my first impulse (a disperse you villains warning followed by grapeshot).

I'm starting to think Monty Python had the right idea, though with more effective mockery.

And my Area Denial Slime Cannon (ADSC for now) really comes down to the properties of the slime. I really am considering doing this way more than I should. I'm trying to invent Burning Oil for the Social Media Age.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 2:30 PM  

No Palestinian ever called me goyim or said I'd no right to a homeland.

OpenID widlast May 14, 2018 2:31 PM  

The Israelis want the Palestinians dead and gone (or just "gone" and any method will do). It's a great statement about human nature that the very people/culture who was brutalized so terribly in WW2 turn around and start doing the EXACT SAME THING to other people just a few years later.

Never again! Unless it is Arabs, then genocide is OK.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 2:36 PM  

Immortal 600: Prisoners Under Fire at Charleston Harbor During the American Civil War

(snip)
The issue between Jones and Foster over the use of prisoners as deterrents to shelling dramatized Charleston’s symbolic importance during the Civil War. Jones was desperate to save the city, an icon of Southern independence, and its inhabitants from further destruction. Foster, on the other hand, was under pressure to capture the battered but resilient port city that was the cradle of the Confederate States of America, and to recapture Fort Sumter.

Both generals had felt compelled to resort to tactics they knew were against the code of honor they had learned at West Point, yet both felt that under the circumstances they had little choice. Behind their decisions were the emotions of hatred for an enemy they had come to loathe, and the callousness that comes when the sightof destruction and death becomes commonplace.

It is difficult to say who was at fault for the fiasco. Jones was the first to place prisoners under fire. On the other hand, the Federal Army was firing into a city where they were well aware civilians still resided. Grant must also shoulder some blame, for his orders ceased the prisoner exchanges.

No matter who should bear the burden of responsibility, the treatment of the prisoners in Charleston Harbor, particularly that endured by the Immortal 600, remains one of the most controversial incidents of the Civil War. Certainly, the prisoners-as-shields practice constitutes a dark chapter in the greatest of American tragedies.

http://www.historynet.com/immortal-600-prisoners-under-fire-at-charleston-harbor-during-the-american-civil-war.htm

Blogger Nate May 14, 2018 2:36 PM  

"This is not what "winning the moral level of war" looks like:"

Bah.

I would declare it an excellent start.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 2:37 PM  

Right there are no differences whatsoever between the Holocaust and Jews defending themselves in their own land that they've conquered/paid for in blood.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 2:38 PM  

I also agree with Nate.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 14, 2018 2:38 PM  

Protect The Wall.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 2:41 PM  

There are no differences between Jews being ethnocentric and positively blood thirsty regarding Israel & "progressive citizens of the world​" regarding the goyim's countries.

Blogger Basta Con La Droga May 14, 2018 2:42 PM  

@ VD "I don't think you want to go down that path. By that standard, so are the Israelis, who have no historical claim on most of the land of Israel, only that which was allotted to the tribe of Judah. And that's without getting into the European DNA of the Ashkenazim."

No, let's go down that path, mate. Palestine is a Roman name. Them Pallies don't even have a proper flag, considering what they use is actually the Jordanian flag. Palestine is closest thing to Narnia on Earth. Also, I guess you - being educated - have heard about the Kingdom of Israel, and the temple of Jerusalem. "No historical claim" is such a laughable statement it's making you look beyond delusional. That being said, were I to choose between Israel and a bunch of Allah-u-akbarring, sandal-bashing savages stuck in the dark ages, I don't think I'd end up like Buridan's Arse.

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 2:43 PM  

(((Unknown)))
I have zero doubt that the Israelis were exercising restraint,

Don't they always?

right up until the Palestinians started shooting, or started throwing explosives.

Israel dindu nothn'. Rinse, wash and repeat.

Even then, the IDF has a habit of using suppressed Ruger 10/22s for crowds like this, so they can be surgical and unnoticed when they face violent mobs,

They can be surgical. Saw a vid of a IDF soldier crippling a kid with an "aim to cripple shot". The child was just standing there, but Israel has a right to self defense.

so anyone killed likely had it coming

*deep gruff voice*

We all have it coming.

Blogger Robert Browning May 14, 2018 2:44 PM  

VD wrote:Go away, Robert Browning. Snidely is right. You are beyond tedious. No more commenting here.
It your soul. Eternal damnation isn't so bad.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 2:45 PM  

Robert Browning is gaayyyy

Blogger Meimou May 14, 2018 2:46 PM  

+1

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 2:47 PM  

Robert Browning
Rabbi B
Magnum
Blue Steel
Ferrari
Le Tigre (it's a softer look. I use it in catalogs)

DOESN'T ANYONE NOTICE? I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

Blogger Looking Glass May 14, 2018 2:52 PM  

@50 Stg58/Animal Mother

Props for the Zoolander joke. I laughed.

Blogger Rabbi B May 14, 2018 2:52 PM  

I also stand with Stg58/Animal Mother who stands with Nate.

Who cares what it looks like anymore...? According to the Torah, the Israelis permitted to take the fight to anyone who attacks them. Israel continues to demonstrate tremendous restraint in the face of her enemies all around...for now.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 2:53 PM  

@45
Before the Hebrews, there were the Phoenicians/Canaanites, then the Philistines, then the Hebrews, then the Greeks, then the Romans.

The history of the world: settle, nativize, defend, occupation, nativize, defend, ...

Seeing it happen is not pretty.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 2:54 PM  

@52
Yes. How dare people hit the Israeli fist with their faces.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 14, 2018 2:55 PM  

"No Palestinian ever called me goyim or said I'd no right to a homeland."

And Palestinians call you kafir. When they have the upper hand they enslave Christians. Neither group is your ally.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 2:56 PM  

@52
Possession of the land is conditional. How has Israel done according to THE Law? Where is the king?

Blogger Rabbi B May 14, 2018 2:57 PM  

@53 JaimeInTexas

And so we thank the Master of the universe for His promises which are the last word. Particularly, that pesky little promise to Abraham and his descendants.

May all of Israel's future wars be ONE sided.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 2:58 PM  

Nate doesn't get "The moral level of war". If the Israelis had decided to simply depopulate Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank, they should have done so 50 years ago. For probably internal political reasons, they decided not to. So, they have to deal with occupied territories with a hostile native population.
Limited scale killing doesn't achieve any of their objectives. It doesn't pacify the natives, it doesn't align foreign support, it doesn't generate internal political support.

All Israel has done with this action is annoy and or alienate their partners and re-invigorate the Intifada.

If they were going to start shooting, then better to clear out the Arabs from Jerusalem than this limited crap. At least that would improve their internal security.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 14, 2018 2:58 PM  

It's well been said that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
They could have gotten so, so much under Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak - the two of them were trying to give away the store. And they could even have reneged on their bargain later in classic arab fashion. But no.

As the God-Emperor says, all the deals get worse from here.

Blogger Warunicorn May 14, 2018 3:01 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:"No Palestinian ever called me goyim or said I'd no right to a homeland."

And Palestinians call you kafir. When they have the upper hand they enslave Christians. Neither group is your ally.


+1

Blogger Tank May 14, 2018 3:04 PM  

#with Nate.

Blogger MickDundee May 14, 2018 3:06 PM  

I also stand with Stg58/Animal Mother who stands with Nate who stands with the Rabbi who stands with our bestest buddies in the entire world.

Who cares what it looks like anymore...? According to the Talmud, the we the giant golem (aka the USA) are permitted to take the fight to anyone who attacks (((them))) because Genesis 15 gives the land to Khazar/Italian mongrels Israel continues to demonstrate tremendous restraint in the face of her enemies all around...for now. Worst case, under the Samson Option, Israel nukes Rome and the pope. With Jews you WIN.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 3:07 PM  

#boomer?

Blogger Nate May 14, 2018 3:08 PM  

"Yes. How dare people hit the Israeli fist with their faces."

Lay with the arab pigdogs if you want. If they were on the US boarder acting like that we'd have built a wall out of their bones.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 3:09 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 3:10 PM  

Nah. Shlomo won't allow you build any walls.

Blogger Ransom Smith May 14, 2018 3:11 PM  

Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space.
Yet another reminder there aren't any Right Wing Death Squads.
Despite what I was promised.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 3:13 PM  

@64
Not laying with anyone. I do not care to be dragged into their shit by Israel or Arabs. You know that.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 3:13 PM  

How do Israelis make themselves look good in this situation? The only solution I can see that will have any finality is mass expulsion, and claim precedent from the Turks or various Arab actions of the past.

Blogger S1AL May 14, 2018 3:13 PM  

Sometimes I just think Vox should have a preemptive "Reeeeeeee Joos" addendum every time he talks about Israel. Would save about 20 comments worth of space.

Blogger Johnny May 14, 2018 3:14 PM  

"No, let's go down that path, mate. Palestine is a Roman name. Them Pallies don't even have a proper flag, considering what they use is actually the Jordanian flag."

In modern time the right of a people to a territory is most commonly based on prior occupancy. We do not, for example, suppose that the Germans have less of a right to that territory called Germany than the French have to France, because the Germans did not have a unified government until the 1870's, whereas France was unified at a much earlier date.

Those people currently called the Palestinians have a history of having previously inhabited a territory called Palestine. It is a bit much to suppose they do not have a right to the territory based on their lack of a central government.

The Bible actually affirms this concept. The reason it is worthy of note that many of the patriarchs are buried near Hebron is that it is a territorial claim. It is proof of prior occupancy. And the Jews do not commonly suppose that because they were defeated by the Assyrians, Alexander the Great, and the Romans, that these defeats annul their rights based on prior occupancy.

Now moving on from moral mongering to real life, my take on Israel is that it is apt to end up being the canary in the coal mine. They could end up proving to the rest of us by their extermination how Islam must be dealt with. Not that I wish for that outcome, but the setup is there.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 3:15 PM  

@57
Overlooking much history, aren't you?

My guess you are a [hyper-]dispensationalist?

Remember what Gamaliel told the Council? The worst place for these uSA to be is Israel's idol.

Blogger S1AL May 14, 2018 3:15 PM  

"How do Israelis make themselves look good in this situation?"

Invoke martial law "for the safety of the protestors", then as soon as the inevitable Palestinian nonsense happens, clear the area completely "for the safety of those involved". Then build a fence to "maintain the safety of the area".

Blogger S1AL May 14, 2018 3:17 PM  

"Those people currently called the Palestinians have a history of having previously inhabited a territory called Palestine. It is a bit much to suppose they do not have a right to the territory based on their lack of a central government."

Really?

Tell me - how many Arabs occupied the area when Israel was founded?

Blogger Desdichado May 14, 2018 3:21 PM  

"No Palestinian ever called me goyim or said I'd no right to a homeland."

And Palestinians call you kafir. When they have the upper hand they enslave Christians. Neither group is your ally.


Exactly so. Just because the Jews might well be the villains of this story, or at least terrible friends that we need to send on their way, that doesn't mean that the Palestinians are worthy of our respect either.

Our best best is to disengage completely, not care what happens on the Israeli border one way or another, and worry about our own borders and our own invaders.

Of course, that does include the Diaspora Jews, who not only are not our friends, but who will do everything possible to prevent America from being America still.

I used to wonder about the prophecies in Daniel that said every nation would be arrayed against Israel. In the past, I thought that every wasn't meant to be taken literally, and it merely meant that all of the local nations would be pressing on them.

Lately, I'm not so sure.

Blogger R Webfoot May 14, 2018 3:23 PM  

"The Palestinians are a fictional construct."

I never understood this argument. The same could be said of, say, the Native Americans, who were a smattering of tribes with no overall identity until they all had the same experience of a bunch of foreigners arriving and changing the world and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it, even if they understood what was happening, which they didn't until it was already too late.

Even though they did not have a unified central government, and constructed an identity after the fact... the construct they created is far from meaningless.

Blogger pyrrhus May 14, 2018 3:24 PM  

Why can't these brilliant Ashkenazi figure out that they can simply ignore Palestinian demonstrations, and use rubber bullets only if absolutely necessary? When the military is called in, disaster inevitably results. Kent State, Amritsar, the Bonus Veterans, etc....
If I were running things in Israel, they'd be serving tea and biscuits to the demonstrators....

Blogger Johnny May 14, 2018 3:25 PM  

"Tell me - how many Arabs occupied the area when Israel was founded?"

Follow that logic and the solution is that they should have killed all of them. Kind of like we did with some of the Indian tribes. Fewer survivors, fewer hassles. Of course their problem is that they didn't have the resources to do it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 3:29 PM  

S1AL wrote:Tell me - how many Arabs occupied the area when Israel was founded?
More than there were Jews. The lie that Palestine was a depopulated wasteland when Jews arrived to turn it into a paradise in the desert is laughable.

Blogger Rabbi B May 14, 2018 3:29 PM  

"....the solution is that they should have killed all of them."

Yes, we should have and still should. We have been paying for the failure to do so since the days of Joshua. They will remain thorns in our eyes until this commandment is obeyed.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 14, 2018 3:32 PM  

@76 Yeah, there were about 10 major nomadic Arab tribes in the area and a bunch of minors when the Ottomans left the field and the Brits took up managing the Palestine province. Key word nomadic. As in, stick around if there's money, blow on if there's not. Accept jobs and money from the Zionist Jewish settlers, then kill them when you think no one's looking. Been going on a while.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 3:37 PM  

@80
Ah, no. Remember what the Lord told Joshua after the deal was struck?

Blogger freddie_mac May 14, 2018 3:37 PM  

Because South Africa is such a bastion of peace and tolerance (except for whites):

South Africa removes Israel ambassador over IDF’s ‘violent aggression’ in Gaza
The South African government is withdrawing its ambassador to Israel in response to the “violent aggression” by Israeli forces at the Gaza border, which saw 55, including six children, killed on Monday.

So, I guess that would be a normal morning in South Africa?

https://www.rt.com/news/426705-south-africa-ambassador-israel-gaza/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=RSS

Blogger Ledford Ledford May 14, 2018 3:39 PM  

The right of return is not happening, obviously, but Israel could lift the blockade of Gaza and alleviate much suffering. Gazan water is currently not fit to drink. Probably Trump could make a phone call and make it happen. Not much political cost (or benefit) from doing it, but why not?



Blogger Chris Mallory May 14, 2018 3:39 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Look into it. They do not. The Palestinians are a fictional construct.

Which is why Israeli settlers are bulldozing fictional olive groves and why the IDF has murdered scores of fictional people.

Blogger S1AL May 14, 2018 3:41 PM  

"Follow that logic and the solution is that they should have killed all of them. Kind of like we did with some of the Indian tribes."

Well that's two historically incorrect statements in as many sentences. Well done.

"More than there were Jews. The lie that Palestine was a depopulated wasteland when Jews arrived to turn it into a paradise in the desert is laughable."

That's not the argument and it's not relevant to the argument. How many were there at the time?

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 3:41 PM  

A dane could​ say the same about the English or a Frenchman about the Germans, or an Englishman about the French... etc.
Hostile outsiders have been a unifier for a long time.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 3:43 PM  

The data is always suspect, but according to the Ottomans, the 1890 population of Palestine (which at the time included Jordan and parts of what is now Iraq and Egypt) was about 10x as many Moslems as Jews, and about as many Christians as Jews. This was after the start of the Zionist movement, and after the tsarist pogroms caused many Jews from Eastern Europe and Russia to emigrate to the Holy Land.

Blogger Man of The West May 14, 2018 3:46 PM  

The real question is, how can Shapiro spin this story to make Trump the bad guy? Oy vey!

Blogger S1AL May 14, 2018 3:49 PM  

So - that accounts for the 1.7 million Arabs who live in Israel. Where did the other 6.3 million come from, and how do they have any legitimate claim to the land?

Blogger Jew613 May 14, 2018 3:50 PM  

Normally Jerusalem uses the Border Police for dealing with these situations, they are very good at putting down rioting in Arab occupied towns or minor Zerg rushes against the border. Its only because of the scale of the Arab effort that we are using the IDF.

Honestly if Western governments had the strength and resolve of Bibi and his nationalist allies you wouldnt have the hordes of rapefugees in your countries now. I'd say learn the lesson, you can have the world's approval, and the rape gangs of Rotherham, or the world's disapproval, and keep your homelands.

Blogger pyrrhus May 14, 2018 3:50 PM  

Justification has nothing to do with winning or losing a propaganda war...The massacre of 600 peaceful protestors at Amritsar, by a moronic General's orders, decisively lost the propaganda war for Britain. After that, at least in India, where British control of the press couldn't stop the news from spreading, no group could still support the Raj.

OpenID genkong May 14, 2018 3:53 PM  

MickDundee wrote:
Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space.

Not only the incessant screeching from the (((ministry of truth))) but the sound of hand-rubbing from the (((immigration lawyers))) would rapidly approach the volume of a locust horde from biblical times.

Blogger dolokov May 14, 2018 3:54 PM  

Where do you think the "world's approval" of rape gangs comes from.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 14, 2018 4:04 PM  

@75 Desdichado

Our best best is to disengage completely, not care what happens on the Israeli border one way or another, and worry about our own borders and our own invaders.

Of course, that does include the Diaspora Jews, who not only are not our friends, but who will do everything possible to prevent America from being America still.
---

People get pissed when I say I hope for a double KO in these situations.

But the truth is, IDGAF about what happens over there when our own borders are being swarmed by endless invaders.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia May 14, 2018 4:09 PM  

"Scores of Palestinans" killed? How many scores? 1 score? 10?

2,400 "wounded?" Wounded in what way? A wound that requires a bandaid or big bruise from a rubber bullet? Or a wound that requires a tournaquet or an amputation? Or did a whole bunch of people ingest some tear gas that they wouldn't have ingested had they stayed home and prayed like good little Mohammedans?

I fucking HATE journalists, who write with the imprecision that would get them in a D in freshman comp.

And VD, I love you man, but the false flaggery in any Palestinan "protest" is beyond obvious.

Isn't it interesting how the photographs just HAPPEN to catch the stretcher bearers in beautiful HD-- and that the stretcher bearers are conveniently there in in the first place? And isn't it interesting how in all pictures, we see NO blood and no wounds?

And it sure looks like some of the "rock throwers" actually have grenades in their hands, though that's hard to tell.

Anyway, yes, you're right the "optics" of having Jared and Ivanka (and boy Ivanka ALWAYS looks hot) having a nice sit down meal, while a bunch of stinked up adolescents are running around in second hand Addidas, are not helpful.

But this too shall pass, and it will go back to "normal" as the Israelis will still have what they have, and the Palestinians will not have what they want.

Nobody gives a fuck about the Palestinias excepte UN globalists, the libtard elited, Euro crybabies, and commie-socialist journalists. Saudi Arabia doesn't care, Egypt doesn't care, Jordan doesn't care, and I am certain the Russians and Syrian don't care either.

The Palestinians will continue to rot, because rotting is the only talent they have. Besides staging a "protest," launching unguided missles, and building tunnels. They are truly an accomplished people.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 4:10 PM  

Ivanka+Melania

Yes please

Blogger Wynn Lloyd May 14, 2018 4:23 PM  

What would happen if Jews in America supported American nationalism more?
Would that mean more political capital in the U.S.A. for Israel's use.
I admit- it's the hypocrisy I don't like. Telling us we have to let in millions of our own version of Palestinians.
I would think, though I'm no expert, that tying their national struggle to ours would be good.

Also cutting back on calling us Nazis, when we're the descendants of the ones who destroyed the Nazis in a total war.

OpenID bgkoranburner May 14, 2018 4:40 PM  

Which is why Israeli settlers are bulldozing fictional olive groves

Too many of the trees say "Mohamad loves Aisha, Fatawa, Fatawas, Aisha, Aisha,Ongele ,Ongele, Ariba Ariba" on them. You would think jews would just bulldoze enough trees to make a star of David.

Blogger RobertT May 14, 2018 4:45 PM  

I don't think this will sway people one way or another. They will use it as an excuse, but it won't change any minds. The Middle East is certainly not a Sunday School.

Blogger LP999-16 May 14, 2018 4:50 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 4:52 PM  

@14

"You know what people mean when they say Palestinian kijiu. In any case targeting children is not acceptable, not to thoses of us who didn't drink cohenn juice."

I'm definitely not pro-Isreal (or pro-Pali, for that matter), however,

1) The right of defense of both self and others ALWAYS exists

2) Some idiot with a 3-pound stone constitutes a threat of LETHAL injury. The use of slings makes it the lethality equivalent of an 1800's smoothbore musket.

Hell, even a 4-ounce baseball can kill if you hit someone in the head with it.

3) Some 14-year old playing "human shield" IS part of the man + sling + stone weapon system

4) The Arabs are notorious for embedding combatants into large crowds of non-combatants, for the specific purpose of getting non-combatants killed by near-misses.

Under the Geneva Convention (which would apply here), #4 and #4 put ALL of the moral burden on the Palis for not only failing to take measures to keep their combatants away from, and being difficult to identify their non-combatants, but, doing the exact opposite.
This makes the Pali leadership who set up this whole thing nothing but war criminals.

Of course, MOslems don't recognize the concept of civilized restraint, and should never be given the benefit of it unless they've proven themselves up to it.

When it comes to war-crimes, the Palis alone make the WW2 Japanese come off as mere kindergartners (the fact that the dead non-combatants are usually their own is literally not a factor. It's whoever sets up the non-combatants to be killed who is in wrong, which is oftentimes NOT the person pulling the trigger).

We've seen constant examples of this among Palis ... bringing small children to tag along in firefights, for the obvious reason of HOPING children get injure or killed for the PR value (and if that fails to materialize, shooting some themselves, and then blaming it on the IDF). Putting rocket launchers less than 10 feet from schools and hospitals. When return fire hits the hospital or school, the war criminals are NOT the people who sent the return fire -- the war criminals are who ever positioned and fired a rocket launcher RIGHT NEXT TO a humanitarian structure.

Blogger English Tom May 14, 2018 4:53 PM  

Everyone is standing but where is Jack Ward?

Blogger Robert What? May 14, 2018 4:53 PM  

Jews are in favor of open borders only for White Christian nations.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 4:54 PM  

@17

"If even half of what Abby Martin says about gaza is true, Palestinians have nothing to lose but their lives. They are taking Gandhi tactics the extreme because they don't see any other option."

As soon as they start hurling rocks, expecially with the use of slings (which can propell a 3-lb rock to 200 mph without much practice), they lose all claims of Ghandian innocence, and instead, just come off as idiots bringing rocks to a rifle-and-machine-gun-fight.

Blogger SDaly May 14, 2018 4:58 PM  

Isn't Israel's reaction just a variant of the position that Europe should "sink the boats" of refugees?

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:01 PM  

@27

"Imagine if US Army snipers shot 2,400 Mexicans... the collective OY VEYS would propel someone to space."

Yes, but the even louder chorus of "Hay Caramba!"s would be sweet, sweet music to the ears of Real Americans.

OpenID bgkoranburner May 14, 2018 5:02 PM  

3) Some 14-year old playing "human shield" IS part of the man + sling + stone weapon system

Liberals have adopted the use "child shield" defense https://gab.ai/BGKB/posts/25627685

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:06 PM  

@28

"Area-denial slime cannons. Render hundreds of meters of an area into a slip'n'slide, then release videos of the bomb throwers doing pratfalls. Add Benny Hill music just to increase the insult for Social Media."

Only problem is, in the desert, such material dries rather quickly.

Now on the other hand, advertising that you're collecting, and putting into the mix, as many boogers as you can get, would make it hilarous. RUN AWAY -- DON'T GET HIT BY THE BOOGER CANNON!!!! Of course, some might say that constitutes biological warfare, and is therefore a Geneva Convention violation...



We have had (and even USED) microwave emitters with parabolic dishes as an area-denial tool. When you're in the main beam, you feel a heating in the skin. Works THROUGH clothing.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:11 PM  

@28

"I wonder if there are any non-lethal weapon design RFPs out there right now..."

My deployment to Iraq, my company was sent in lieu of an MP Company, as part of an MP Battalion.

So, we got training on non-lethals. Bean Bag rounds are useful. However, the stitching needs to be made a little LESS robust, so that they can't be thrown back at your. Rubber ball rounds have similar issues.

If Isreal were really smart, they would start a pipeline project around the country's perimeter, using water out of the Med, and make a system of water cannons with interlocking fires, and best with 2x the density needed for interlocking coverage.

This has the added advantage of passively salting the ground south of their border.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 14, 2018 5:12 PM  

@109 Yeah, I saw that Area Denial Weapon on the Future Weapons show. The former Navy SEAL lasted almost 3 seconds in the beam area before he broke and ran to get out of it and the tech guy running it said, "Wow, you held out a long time."

It hasn't been put into big effect yet because there's worry about people getting stuck in the beam in a press of crowd. The beam has an on-off-on-off pulse so it's impossible to burn someone, but you know how it is.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 14, 2018 5:15 PM  

All your bullitx is dead to us.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:23 PM  

@111

"@109 Yeah, I saw that Area Denial Weapon on the Future Weapons show. The former Navy SEAL lasted almost 3 seconds in the beam area before he broke and ran to get out of it and the tech guy running it said, "Wow, you held out a long time."

It hasn't been put into big effect yet because there's worry about people getting stuck in the beam in a press of crowd. The beam has an on-off-on-off pulse so it's impossible to burn someone, but you know how it is."


The proper way to use it is with three units.

2 set up on the flank area (peel people off of the side of the crowd), and one cent in the center-front (to be used as an additional persuader to those on the flanks who try to continue moving forwards rather than backwards)

The other is that you don't wait until people are right at the edge of the area that you truly want people to stay out of.

Since it's a NON-lethal, you can (and SHOULD) use it on anyone who attempts to enter what would be called an "assembly area" prior to entering the denial zone.

If they can't assemble into a crowd in the first place, you've solved the problem before it even occurs.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:29 PM  

@36

"And my Area Denial Slime Cannon (ADSC for now) really comes down to the properties of the slime. I really am considering doing this way more than I should. I'm trying to invent Burning Oil for the Social Media Age."

If at least 10% of your Area Denial Slime isn't OC (pepper spray oil), then you're not doing enough.

Putting OC into the slime means falling into it is the same as getting sprayed with OC. This therefore necessitates head to toe waterproof garb. Anybody who has ever done an exercise in NBC gear in the military knows that, once the temp is above 60F (15 C), NBC jacket and pants is incompatible with maneuvering on foot. Even lower if you're carrying 30+ pounds, or anything sizeable to require a 2-man carry (even if lighter).

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 5:31 PM  

@37

"No Palestinian ever called me goyim or said I'd no right to a homeland."

There is that. And the Ashkenazi voluntarily quit their own homeland, rather than fight to keep it.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 14, 2018 5:48 PM  

@36/@114 You guys are neglecting the critical bacon fat percentage.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 6:13 PM  

@38

"The Israelis want the Palestinians dead and gone (or just "gone" and any method will do). It's a great statement about human nature that the very people/culture who was brutalized so terribly in WW2 turn around and start doing the EXACT SAME THING to other people just a few years later."

Freed slaves who took up Pres. James Monroe's (and later presidents') offer to resettle in Liberia (capital, Monroeville) immediately set to work building themselves white, 2-story Plantation Houses, complete with Porticos supported by Greek Columns and with a 2nd-story Balcony.

Many also tried to enslave whatever local tribesmen they could buy up.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 6:22 PM  

Moral level of war? Doesn't sound like anything any grunt with trigger time has ever said.

There is only one moral level of war. Victory
There is only one sin. Defeat

Shooting a 14 year old ain't a big deal outside of the West. 14 year olds plant IED's and tote AK-47's every damn day. And all over the world

Personally I can't see the down side to jews and hajjis killing each other. A dead enemy is a dead enemy no matter who kills em

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 14, 2018 6:35 PM  

My brother went to Vietnam when he was 15 years old. 14yos are often combatants.

Blogger Giraffe May 14, 2018 6:46 PM  

52 dead, 2400 wounded? Either the Israelis are piss poor shots or their using bb guns. Or, maybe this is typical arab distortion.

OpenID ideahorizon May 14, 2018 6:47 PM  

VD-

"By that standard, so are the Israelis, who have no historical claim on most of the land of Israel, only that which was allotted to the tribe of Judah."

1. Until the rebellion against the house of David, Judah was the ruling tribe over all of Israel with Jerusalem as the capitol of all Israel.

2. Within Judea lived the descendants of other tribes (2 Chronicles 15:9 -Then he assembled all Judah and Benjamin and the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon who had settled among them, for large numbers had come over to him from Israel when they saw that the Lord his God was with him.) In addition, Cohen and Levite descendants are not Judean.

3. As the other 10 tribes disappeared in exile, their land would be inherited to the other living descendants of Jacob (Israel) according to the laws of Jewish inheritance ((Numbers 27:8-11): “If a man dies with no sons, then his inheritance goes to his daughter(s). If he has no daughter(s), then the inheritance goes to his brothers. If he has no brothers, then the inheritance goes to his father’s brothers. If his father had no brothers, then the inheritance goes to the closest kin of the family, and he will possess it.”).

4. In the Babylonian exile, all Israelites were called "Judeans" even if they were from other tribes (Esther 2:5- King James Bible "Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite"); therefore, when they returned to Israel, they still called themselves "Judeans" even though they lived in most all parts of Israel (including the Galilee).


"And that's without getting into the European DNA of the Ashkenazim."

VD- you are forgetting that Judaism is not a race or a religion; it is a nation. Like all nations, a person can become naturalized or can be born part of the nation. In Judaism, being born into the nation happens when the mother is Jewish, regardless if she was born Jewish or joined the Jewish nation. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Ashkenazi mtdna is of European origin, since those women joined the jewish nation. Otherwise, according to your logic, David couldn't really claim Judean status because his grandfather's mother was a Moabite.

You keep talking about the "European" origin of Ashkenazi women as if its a done deal. As it says in infogalactic, the debate is still out, "A 2014 study by Fernández et al. has found that Ashkenazi Jews display a frequency of haplogroup K in their maternal DNA that suggests an ancient Near Eastern origin, similar to the results of Behar. He stated that this observation clearly contradicts the results of the study led by Richards that suggested a European source for 3 exclusively Ashkenazi K lineages.[139]"

The reason the issue is still not clear is because the "Italian" women the Jewish men supposedly married have the mtdna of Near Easterners and not Western Hunter Gatherers or Steppe pastoralists.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 6:48 PM  

@56

"Possession of the land is conditional. How has Israel done according to THE Law? Where is the king?"

1. Isreal was told they didn't need a king, because they would be ruled by God directly. But they INSISTED on having a king, because all the other nations in the area had a king.

2. Even if it weren't for item 1 above, the majority Ashkenazi don't care about any of that anyways.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 6:51 PM  

@58

Both sides are and have been always run by blinded idiots, whose every move merely perpetuates the hostilities, while not achieving any of their own goals. This problem, therefore, seems to be of supernatural origin.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf May 14, 2018 6:55 PM  

Do most prominent European and American Jews support giving Palestinian people refugee status in the EU or USA, but not Israel?

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 6:58 PM  

@75

"Exactly so. Just because the Jews might well be the villains of this story, or at least terrible friends that we need to send on their way, that doesn't mean that the Palestinians are worthy of our respect either."

TL;DR The Jews and the Palis deserve each other.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:06 PM  

@79

"More than there were Jews. The lie that Palestine was a depopulated wasteland when Jews arrived to turn it into a paradise in the desert is laughable."

The plan was that all the Jews throughout other parts of Trans-Jordan would move to (the new, but pre-hijacked) Isreal; and all the Arabs in the new Isreal borders would move to the new Jordan.

Then the Arabs in Ireal decided that they didn't want houses on the other side of the Jordan river, and whpped up the entire Arab world into some stupid game of "You Jews who moved to Isreal can't live there.... and you can't have your old homes, either!"

So, really, the first to renege on the agreements was the Arabs (as if that's a surprise).

Jews tend to violate agreements after they think they've got you into a position where you can't retaliate or otherwise object in a substantial way.

Arabs will violate agreements mere seconds after concluding them. This is why Arabs make lousy trading partners an any business which isn't cash-and-carry.

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 7:08 PM  

Moral level of war? Doesn't sound like anything any grunt with trigger time has ever said.

Who gives a damn what grunts with trigger time think about strategy? That's why they are grunts. Leave the strategy to the strategists.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:08 PM  

@80

""....the solution is that they should have killed all of them."

Yes, we should have and still should. We have been paying for the failure to do so since the days of Joshua. They will remain thorns in our eyes until this commandment is obeyed. "

And the fact that Pali mothers to this day rejoice when one of their kids blows himself up with explosives (a form of fire) means that they never have stopped the Moloch worship, and that alone is all that true Isrealis should need to understand that they should be exterminated with prejudice and not even a hint of regret.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:10 PM  

@84

"Gazan water is currently not fit to drink."

Which is entirely the fault of the Gazans themselves.

Blogger Pale Male May 14, 2018 7:12 PM  

R Webfoot wrote:I never understood this argument.
It's not an argument, it's a straight claim made by, IIRC, a top member of the PLO.  There are Egyptians and Jordanians and Lebanese and Syrians, some of them in the territory of the Palestinian Mandate.  "Palestinian" is a made-up identity attached to a hijacked word which was synonymous with Israeli (Jew) in 1968.

I have the 1968 issue of Time reporting on the war.  I could dig it up and provide chapter and verse.

Snidely Whiplash wrote:More than there were Jews. The lie that Palestine was a depopulated wasteland when Jews arrived
... was a widely-reported fact in the mid 19th century, including by none other than Mark Twain.

The Arabs flooded in when the Jews created an economy and jobs.  Kind of like Bantu to South Africa, and Mexicans to the US.  Cheap labor always turns out to be a really bad bargain, doesn't it?

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 7:16 PM  

"No, let's go down that path, mate. Palestine is a Roman name. Them Pallies don't even have a proper flag, considering what they use is actually the Jordanian flag."

There were 700,000 people in Palestine in 1920.

Of these, 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850, there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

Palestine is most certainly not a "fictional construct", as in addition to being a Roman name, it was the British name for its Mandate of Palestine from 1922 to 1948.

I may support Israel, but attempting to spread historical falsehoods is not acceptable for any reason. Furthermore, as an American Indian, I fully support the Israeli notion that one has the right to return to one's historical land and take it from the current possessor whenever one has the ability to do so.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:18 PM  

@92

"Justification has nothing to do with winning or losing a propaganda war...The massacre of 600 peaceful protestors at Amritsar, by a moronic General's orders, decisively lost the propaganda war for Britain. After that, at least in India, where British control of the press couldn't stop the news from spreading, no group could still support the Raj."

The flaw in the logic is the Pali protesters are not peaceful, never have been peaceful, and probably couldn't be peaceful even if they tried.

The just can't stop picking up rocks they find on the ground and hurling them with lethal force. As soon as they do that, they're combatants...and stupid ones at that, because it makes them rock-throwers in a gun fight.

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 7:18 PM  

was a widely-reported fact in the mid 19th century, including by none other than Mark Twain.

Mark Twain told a lot of tall tales. There were 266,000 Arabs living in Palestine in 1800. You people really need to learn how to use Infogalactic. Frankly, your level of historical ignorance should be embarrassing.

I suggest you stop making "factual" statements without at least checking on the widely available facts.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:20 PM  

@94

"Where do you think the "world's approval" of rape gangs comes from."

Maybe not world approval, but (((media approval))). They never put it on the front page of a newspaper, or make it a story on the evening news. It's ALWAYS buried.

And silence is tacit approval.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:23 PM  

@96

"I fucking HATE journalists, who write with the imprecision that would get them in a D in freshman comp."

They do it deliberately.

In this case, it's to cause people with running noses and stinging eyes to be counted among those with through-and-through bullet wounds.

Telling a story and omitting pertinent facts is lying by omission.

There's a reason why, when you are sworn in as a witness, the judge or bailiff demands that you tell "The truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth" i.e. don't omit anything, and don't add anything.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:27 PM  

@96

"
Nobody gives a fuck about the Palestinias excepte UN globalists, the libtard elited, Euro crybabies, and commie-socialist journalists. Saudi Arabia doesn't care, Egypt doesn't care, Jordan doesn't care, and I am certain the Russians and Syrian don't care either.

The Palestinians will continue to rot, because rotting is the only talent they have. Besides staging a "protest," launching unguided missles, and building tunnels. They are truly an accomplished people."

Not even Arabs want Palis, because although they call themselves Moslem, they're actually Moloch worshipppers. And every government in the region knows it. That's why nobody will let them in.

The "Good Palis" were the ones who moved into Jordan immediately as part of the residency swap as part of the break-up of Transjordan in to Israel and Jordan.

Blogger Steve May 14, 2018 7:34 PM  

But whatever Israeli general is responsible for handling the protesters is making a complete hash of it.

Yes. Dunno why Israel hasn't invested in water cannons, millimeter wave lasers, and those sonic weapons that make people soil themselves.

OTOH, while this turkey shoot won't have done Israel any good, it probably won't do that much harm either - at least from a Western perspective. The people who are most deebly goncerned about it are the usual suspects who hated Israel anyway. Everyone else is somewhere between apathetic to quite happy to see the IDF supply less hammed.

20 years ago, average Westerners might've been shocked, but we've had a lot of experience of Muslims since then. And I do believe there's both a hardening of the public mood and a general sense of outrage fatigue. The (UK) media badly overplayed their hand in several instances lately: the murder of Jo Cox MP, the Grenfell Tower fire, and the "Windrush generation" fake scandal. Jo Cox's martyrdom was supposed to sink the chances of Leave winning the Brexit referendum, except it didn't. We're supposed to feel national shame, or something, about a bunch of third worlders dying in a fire and the survivors arrogantly demanding unlimited free goodies as a result, except we don't. The Home Office deporting a handful of black people who never bothered to keep copies of their own immigration documents was supposed to be a major blow to the government, except even the Guardian admitted the public doesn't care and wants immigrants gone.

As with President Trump, the full court press media outrage machine just isn't guaranteed or even likely to work anymore. If the press was capable of introspection, they'd find this far more terrifying than anything they're currently shilling for. Flow my tears, the pozzed man said, except damn few out there in teeveeland cares any more, save the habitual virtue-twirlers.

So I'd be surprised if today's events made many people change their mind about Israel.

Most people outside the Middle East will probably have forgotten about this in a fortnight. It's still a good idea for the Israelis to take riot control away from 20something soldiers and hand it to mature policemen though, because while the Palestinians enjoy tossing their dead kids around like so much confetti and crying in public, being deprived of martyrs is likely to demoralise them even more.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:38 PM  

@100

"The Middle East is certainly not a Sunday School."

And yet, it IS Sunday School.

Not a Sunday School... THE Sunday School.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:39 PM  

@103

"Everyone is standing but where is Jack Ward?"

Taking a nap.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:43 PM  

@116

"@36/@114 You guys are neglecting the critical bacon fat percentage."

Jews won't touch the stuff, either.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 7:44 PM  

LOL like you? With all your time down range leading troops and winning wars?

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:46 PM  

@118

"Moral level of war? Doesn't sound like anything any grunt with trigger time has ever said.

There is only one moral level of war. Victory
There is only one sin. Defeat"

The Moral Level of war is one of the reasons why we lost in Vietnam.

The Moral Level of war controls whether your political leaders will support your fight.

The Moral Level of war controls whether mothers will push their sons to enlist.

The Moral Level of war controls whether young men will enlist, even without mother's insistence (or even despite her protatestation that her baby is too young to be in a war).

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 7:53 PM  


@121

"
VD- you are forgetting that Judaism is not a race or a religion; it is a nation. Like all nations, a person can become naturalized or can be born part of the nation. In Judaism, being born into the nation happens when the mother is Jewish, regardless if she was born Jewish or joined the Jewish nation. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Ashkenazi mtdna is of European origin, since those women joined the jewish nation. Otherwise, according to your logic, David couldn't really claim Judean status because his grandfather's mother was a Moabite."

You do realize that the "nation" view actually legitimizes ALL of the Nurenburg Laws (laws restricting the actions, employment, etc. of hostile nationals), AND the Holocause in the wake of the 1933 "Declaration of War against Germany" announced by Jewish groups around the entire planet, and featured on the front page of every newspaper which carried international news.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 8:01 PM  

No we lost because at all points in time we failed/ were unwilling to use maxim force at the various North Vitanmense weak points. Just like how we lost the war on terror.

We destroyed the plains indians, fire bombed the japs etc because we were more interested in winning then mortality

This moral level stuff is what folks get to talk about when their knowledge of warfare is mostly second hand. Whether that second hand is state side reading or sitting in an air conditioned command post.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 8:03 PM  

@137

"
Most people outside the Middle East will probably have forgotten about this in a fortnight. It's still a good idea for the Israelis to take riot control away from 20something soldiers and hand it to mature policemen though, because while the Palestinians enjoy tossing their dead kids around like so much confetti and crying in public, being deprived of martyrs is likely to demoralise them even more."

TRVTH!

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 8:07 PM  

Palestinians enjoy tossing their dead kids around like so much confetti and crying in public, being deprived of martyrs is likely to demoralise them even more."
.....

They are also found of digging up recently dead folks and moving them around to use as props.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 8:10 PM  

@141

"LOL like you? With all your time down range leading troops and winning wars?"

The Battle of the Atlantic (US/Canada/UK surface shipping vs German U-boats) was won by Strategists.
Specifically, by a bunch of academics with slide-rules, in a group called Operations Research.

The figured out the optimal convoy sizes (given ships' varying speed capabilities, number of DD/DDE/Corvettes availabe for escort duties), etc.

You can have the best tactics in the fight (U.S. Army, Vietnam) and never lose a battle (U.S. Army, Vietnam), and lose the entire damned war because the enemy (NVA) choses a superior strategy (in this case, what is calle the Fabian strateg)... As General Giap famously noted -- he got his winning strategy from a man who was in a similar position (poorly equipped poor people in a 3rd-world country facing the most powerful, well-equipped, well-trained, well-armed army on the planet): George Washington.

If your strategy sucks and your enemy's strategy doesn't, then it really doesn't matter how good your weapons are, what your tactics are, or if you even have absolute and complete air superiority -- you will still lose.

Blogger Glaivester May 14, 2018 8:12 PM  

Of course, Israel probably is going to get a lot less worried about the Palestinians in the coming years, as it has to deal with the Dindu-stinians (African refugees).

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 8:13 PM  

@144

"No we lost because at all points in time we failed/ were unwilling to use maxim force at the various North Vitanmense weak points. Just like how we lost the war on terror."

And why do you think we (i.e. our politicians) were unwilling to use the amount of force necessary to win?


Because the NVA (with the help of John ratface traitor Kerry, and others) won at the moral level.


I suggest your purchase the game Vietnam:1965-`975 by Victory Games (avaiable ONLY on E-bay or boardgamegeek.com, because VG went under with the rest of Avalon Hill).

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 8:14 PM  

@144

"
This moral level stuff is what folks get to talk about when their knowledge of warfare is mostly second hand. Whether that second hand is state side reading or sitting in an air conditioned command post. "

I served a year in Iraq with the infantry. I can tell you that killing one dufus and insipiring 3 more to take his place is not a win.

THAT is the moral level of war, you strategically-blind, "tactics are everything" idiot.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 14, 2018 8:15 PM  

@146

"They are also found of digging up recently dead folks and moving them around to use as props."

Normally they just use whoever is conveniently close buy, and if he falls off the litter (or even out of the casket), he helpfully hops right back into position.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 8:22 PM  

I could tell you have trigger time Dirk but a a year ain't that much. Nor did I say tactics are everything.

But good point about the battle of the Atlantic but we aren't talking about a large scale naval engagement. If we were, I'd keep quite since its outside my 27 years of experience

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 8:26 PM  

Tonsplace,

I thought Green Berets / special operators were smarter. There is no way you could not know about the moral level of war.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 8:31 PM  

Shocker..... I think we are overused and missed use tools. You win with brute force and sneaky on the side.

Now we try way to much sneaky and not anywhere near enough brute force

Blogger Centurion Revolt May 14, 2018 8:33 PM  

Genocide of the Arabs IS ok.

Blogger Ceerilan May 14, 2018 8:38 PM  

In no way can you call an invasion of a country by an army of immigrants a one sided war on the part of the society reacting to the problems those immigrants generate.

Blogger VD May 14, 2018 9:03 PM  

LOL like you? With all your time down range leading troops and winning wars?

I was thinking more like my uncle, the former Commandant of the USMC. Or my grandfather's friend, General Grey, also a former Commandant of the USMC.

Unlike you, they understand that getting shot at doesn't make a strategist any more than it makes a logistics expert.

This moral level stuff is what folks get to talk about when their knowledge of warfare is mostly second hand. Whether that second hand is state side reading or sitting in an air conditioned command post.

You've never spent much time around actual decision makers. Or read much military history, obviously. And you clearly don't understand that the physical aspect of war is as irrelevant to the intellectual aspect of it as the intellectual aspect is to the physical aspect.

Running around killing people and breaking things doesn't give you the grasp of history, economics, mass psychology, and statistics that are required to formulate strategy, just as reading books doesn't give you the ability to run a marathon, shoot straight, and win a boxing match.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 14, 2018 9:11 PM  

A rock is a threat depending on distance and method of throwing it.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 14, 2018 9:21 PM  

Al Gray. The Warfighter.

OpenID tonsplace May 14, 2018 9:54 PM  

Resting on the lurals of others. Awesome

You assume I havent read because I disagree. What I have done is read some and live it much, including staff work at the battalion level during combat operations for a light infantry battalion and some leasion work with the staff of a Marine Expeditionary Force. What I have seen, 1st hand and up front is the intellectual stuff fail to produce results where it counts.

It all sounds like wonderful stuff, gets guys promoted, gets books published, gives folks shit to talk about etc etc but it fails to produce results where it counts.

Blogger Pale Male May 14, 2018 10:00 PM  

VD wrote:Mark Twain told a lot of tall tales. There were 266,000 Arabs living in Palestine in 1800.
I was using the Infogalactic figures.  Note that the Arab population more than doubled from 1800 to 1914, and went up another 50% by 1931.  Meanwhile the Jewish population went up 25x in the same period.  There can be little doubt that the latter was a big causal factor of the former given economic patterns up to the Intifada.

The territory covered by Palestine had just 532,000 in the 1890 census.  Today Gaza alone has 2 million, Israel about 8.6 million, the West Bank roughly 3.3 million, and Jordan about 10 million.  Mandatory Palestine was VERY thinly populated in 1867.  Descriptions of it as "empty" were accurate, QED.

Dirk Manly wrote:"@36/@114 You guys are neglecting the critical bacon fat percentage."

Jews won't touch the stuff, either.

Good, if we can make a no-touch loading and delivery system we have a brand-new export market for the US pork producers!  Excellent, excellent.  <rubs hands>

OpenID paulmurray May 14, 2018 11:21 PM  

"Area-denial slime cannons."

Lard. Load 'em with lard. Except, of course, that the Israelis have exactly the same superstitions about what the creator of heaven and earth thinks is gross to eat. So that ain't happening.

Slings are an excellent weapon. Cheap, portable, and quite deadly. One of the reasons for plate mail is slingers.

As for the situation in general: Jerusalem has been a running sore for millennia. It isn't going to heal up any time soon, if ever. It's long past time for the world to go "meh" and ignore the whole lot of them.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 14, 2018 11:30 PM  

Centurion Revolt wrote:Genocide of the Arabs IS ok.

It's so much better than OK.

Blogger Ingot9455 May 15, 2018 12:05 AM  

@140 I've seen bacon and other pig products on sale in Israeli supermarkets (at a markup). So the 'no-touch' provision is a little different for Jews than it is for Muslims. Ask Big Gay Steve about the bacon-eating Grinder rabbi.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 15, 2018 12:36 AM  

@152

" If we were, I'd keep quite since its outside my 27 years of experience "

BPED 15 SEPT 1989
Shipped to Basic Training 30 OCT 1989.

I can't believe you've been in that long, and still don't understand war beyond the tactical level.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 15, 2018 12:38 AM  

@154

"Shocker..... I think we are overused and missed use tools. You win with brute force and sneaky on the side.

Now we try way to much sneaky and not anywhere near enough brute force "


Brute Force comes from overwhelming numbers
Overwhelming numbers comes from political and public support
Public and political support comes from the Moral Level of war.

Blogger Shimshon May 15, 2018 1:29 AM  

Vox, does ideahorizon's observations on genetics affect your stance?

Blogger The Surly Beaver May 15, 2018 2:03 AM  

It's no less moral than it would be for the Italian Navy to sink migrant ships.

Blogger Thad tuiol May 15, 2018 3:59 AM  

If the Italians sank even one migrant ship, can you imagine the outcry and wailing by (((them))) and their (((media organs)))? So remind me, why am I supposed to cheer for Israel again?

Blogger arende15 May 15, 2018 4:02 AM  

The Balfour Declaration

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

Blogger VD May 15, 2018 4:54 AM  

Resting on the lurals of others. Awesome

You're emotionally projecting. Their laurels have nothing to do with me. The point is that I'm not shitting on their intellectual successes and claiming them to be irrelevant. You are, because you're a grunt too stupid to even realize what he is doing. Your thinking doesn't even rise to the level of the Europeans after the U.S. Civil War.

"*Snork*, all we have to do is try harder and be real brave!" Idiot.

There is a reason why the Marines honor men like Van Creveld and Lind. And it's not because they ever carried a rifle or wore a uniform.

It all sounds like wonderful stuff, gets guys promoted, gets books published, gives folks shit to talk about etc etc but it fails to produce results where it counts.

It depends upon the strategy, stupid grunt. There are good strategies and bad strategies, successful strategies and failed strategies, just as there are successful grunts and failed grunts.

Blogger VD May 15, 2018 6:55 AM  

Vox, does ideahorizon's observations on genetics affect your stance?

No.

Note that the Arab population more than doubled from 1800 to 1914, and went up another 50% by 1931. Meanwhile the Jewish population went up 25x in the same period. There can be little doubt that the latter was a big causal factor of the former given economic patterns up to the Intifada.

You are committing the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. In any event, it was primarily the British who were responsible for those early economic gains that attracted more Jews and Arabs alike.

OpenID benkurtzblog May 15, 2018 7:05 AM  

"This is not what 'winning the moral level of war' looks like."

Perhaps. But it kind of reminds me of what 'always sink the damn ships' might look like, if one were on land instead of at sea.

I guess the Israelis are a little bit selective when it comes to which bits of your advice they care to follow.

Blogger justaguy May 15, 2018 7:37 PM  

Doesn't the moral level of war only apply to the nations that are fighting? Here it seems that both sides have are on their respective moral sides of this war. The moral aspect of war helps one population gird itself to do what it needs to win/survive.

Blogger Lazarus May 15, 2018 10:03 PM  

Snipers can't do the damage to Hamas operatives that they did through all the smoke and chaos. It was people behind the lines mixed in with the rioters

What REALLY happened:

GCC special forces used Hamas induced chaos to take out Hamas operatives

Blogger Pale Male May 16, 2018 1:01 AM  

VD wrote:You are committing the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. In any event, it was primarily the British who were responsible for those early economic gains that attracted more Jews and Arabs alike.
Look at the numbers and dates again.  The Jewish and Muslim numbers were rapidly increasing up through the 1914 census.  There was no British Mandate before the Balfour declaration in 1917; the area was under Ottoman rule until the empire collapsed amidst WW I.

Something happened to increase the economic carrying capacity of the region in the 1800-1914 period, and it sure wasn't British rule because it didn't exist.  Were there expat British entrepreneurs?  Possible, but I'm inclined to discount them as a major factor.  Neither was it Haber-process nitrates improving farming, as that hadn't happened yet.  The biggest factor is the major demographic shift, and it looks like the claim that Israel made the desert bloom is legit.

Blogger arende15 May 16, 2018 12:35 PM  

@Pale Male

Israel made the desert bloom is legit?


“In 2001, Dr. Ariella Oppenheim, of Hebrew University, a biologist, published the first extensive study of DNA and the origin of the Jews. Her research found that virtually all the Jews came from Khazar blood. Not only that but Oppenheim discovered that the Palestinians—the very people whom the Jews had been persecuting and ejecting from Israel’s land since 1948—had more Israelite blood than did the Jews. In sum, the vast majority of the Jews were not Jews; some of the Palestinians were. Some of the Palestinians even had a DNA chromosome which established that they were “Cohens”—workers at the ancient Temple and synagogues of the Jews.
The Definitive DNA Study
Now comes the ultimate, definitive DNA study, by Dr. Eran Elhaik and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Entitled, The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses, and published by the Oxford Journal on behalf of the Society for Molecular Biology and Evolution, the study confirms Oppenheim’s research and the many scholarly books.
Dr. Elhaik and the prestigious Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine conclude in their report: “The Khazarian Hypothesis suggests that Eastern European Jews descended from the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE and Converted to Judaism in the eighth century...Following the collapse of their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe. The rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo-Khazars.”

Blogger Pale Male May 16, 2018 11:38 PM  

arende15 wrote:Her research found that virtually all the Jews came from Khazar blood. Not only that but Oppenheim discovered that the Palestinians—the very people whom the Jews had been persecuting and ejecting from Israel’s land since 1948—had more Israelite blood than did the Jews.
And what relevance has this to the claim that the increase in the Arab population in the 19th and 20th centuries was prompted largely by the jobs created by Jews, Khazar or otherwise?  Maybe you can make a case that people of Cohen descent who say the shahada and bow to Mecca 5 times a day are somehow still Jews, but SRSLY that's got no logical connection to anything said thus far.

I note that Vox has not come back to deny again both the Ottoman census data and the statements of many contemporary observers, including Twain, that the area known as Palestine was thinly populated and largely a wasteland in the mid-19th century.  It appears that this is too well-documented from authoritative sources to honestly be denied.

I'm an American and have no Jewish blood that I know of.  My only interest in this is understanding history.

Blogger arende15 May 17, 2018 4:33 AM  

@Pale Male
“And what relevance has this to the claim that the increase in the Arab population in the 19th and 20th centuries was prompted largely by the jobs created by Jews, Khazar or otherwise?

My understanding of your argument is that emigrants created work for emigrants.
You however claimed “Israel made the desert bloom is legit.”
What is Israel?

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