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Thursday, May 03, 2018

The Last Closet and the reality of evil

If you haven't watched the latest Voxiversity video yet, you really should. While reading 12 Rules for Life, I noted that Jordan Peterson claims "evil is the desire to cause suffering, where suffering is not necessary." This demonstrates that he doesn't know a single goddamn thing about real, material, conscious evil, which has absolutely nothing to do with the desire to cause suffering, but rather, the desire to do as one pleases.


And Jesus Christ is not a myth or a metaphor. He the only way, and the only truth, to systematically combat that very real, material, and conscious evil.

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81 Comments:

Blogger Lovekraft May 03, 2018 6:43 PM  

Perhaps a follow-up to this is in order in which the requirements for dealing with such evil in order to maintain a functioning society is laid out.

I had a thought when listening to an Alex Jones vid with a guest discussing Pope Francis and what struck me is how, even after so many centuries, the Catholic Church has to jostle like every other voice to be heard. After all this time, it hasn't figured out the formula for presenting Truth in an effective and efficient manner. Is this even possible?

Blogger RM Chris May 03, 2018 6:55 PM  

Haven't paid that much attention to him, but JB's an atheist isn't he?
So why would it be surprising that he would try to shoehorn the definition of evil into a utilitarian box?

Blogger RM Chris May 03, 2018 6:57 PM  

Not sure I understand.

What's "an effective and efficient manner" ?

Blogger Howard Stone May 03, 2018 6:59 PM  

Amen.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 7:13 PM  

"Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Interestingly enough, my phone automatically knew how to autocomplete that sentence. This is the core of evil to do as one pleases, which Satan equates to being as gods.

Blogger David The Good May 03, 2018 7:13 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:Perhaps a follow-up to this is in order in which the requirements for dealing with such evil in order to maintain a functioning society is laid out.

I had a thought when listening to an Alex Jones vid with a guest discussing Pope Francis and what struck me is how, even after so many centuries, the Catholic Church has to jostle like every other voice to be heard. After all this time, it hasn't figured out the formula for presenting Truth in an effective and efficient manner. Is this even possible?


If the Catholic church taught what it taught 100 years ago they would be heard non-stop because of the terror they would induce in the postmodernists.

Blogger SemiSpook37 May 03, 2018 7:34 PM  

@Lovekraft/DTG

There's a reason Pope St. Pius X proclaimed Liberalism as the synthesis of all heresies. Look no further than the Jacobins in the French Revolution and their abhorrent behavior during the Reign of Terror.

The problem is that in the push to be more "relevant" in the modern era, the Catholic Church ended up becoming more like everyone else. Kind of difficult to get your rather unique teachings out when it allows people to dismiss it just as easily as others out of hand.

Blogger Garuna May 03, 2018 7:39 PM  

evil is the desire to cause suffering, WHERE SUFFERING IS NOT NECESSARY

How does an existential relativist define necessity? Peterson talks about propagating the species as dictating what is true and what is false. Does he understand the implications of all this? This kind of logic reminds me of when turbo-atheists say it may be necessary to kill religious people for the better of humanity. Creepy stuff.

I wonder if these twisted definition of true vs. false and good vs. evil are rooted in the gamma's need to protect his ego. Because the actions inspired by Peterson's philosophy are pure self-serving dishonesty.

If Peterson was honest about the JQ, he would face a lot of heat. So for the preservation of his reputation and status, it became necessary to be dishonest.

If Peterson fans were honest about Peterson's intellectual dishonesty, their hero would no longer be a hero. So to preserve all the purpose and self-confidence they derive from him, it became necessary to come here and spew lie after lie after lie.

It's not a coincidence that their primary accusation towards VD is of insecurity and jealousy. Gammas Always Project. They are projecting their own insecurities, jealousies, and dishonesty.

It's been interesting to follow the Peterson saga the past few days. My entire view of him and his fans has changed completely. I used to think of them as Alt-Lite allies. But they are actually a gamma cult who promote dishonorable behavior for preservation of their ego and status.

I can now see the seeds of evil.

Blogger Nell Fenwick May 03, 2018 7:45 PM  

Damn Devil.

Blogger haus frau May 03, 2018 7:45 PM  

Hitler didnt desire to cause suffering. He eliminated the jews in the most practical humane manner with the sole motivation of helping the german people. Jordan petersen doesnt think hitler was evil.

Blogger Garuna May 03, 2018 7:50 PM  

(contd.)

Furthermore, with this definition of evil, where is the concept of evil temptation? If only unnecessary suffering is evil, what about indulgence and degeneracy? Those two things feel really good. Orgasmically good sometimes. But they have been the real cause of decay in the Western civilization.

With Peterson's logic, feelbad is more unambiguously evil than indulgence and degeneracy. Yeah, this is a gamma fragile ego cult.

Blogger Ceerilan May 03, 2018 7:52 PM  

It really is a common misconception among westerners that if you're not doing something (or aiming to do something) directly harmful to someone, then that act must not be wrong. This is a core difference between Paleo concervatives (aka the West) and libertarians. While we have the attention of JP fans, it would be a good time to pop up some links to Vox's best stuff on the subject.

Blogger DJ | AMDG May 03, 2018 8:02 PM  

I actually have great hope for The RCC. Babyboomer priest and bishops for sure twisted things up, as did the strange spirit of universalism the pervaded Vii that preceded them. Yet, GenX and millennial priests and bishops continue to take more and more conservative/traditional stances. The archbishop of Portland is a striking example of traditionally rooted Catholic leader amidst the great northwest conclave of neomarxism.

I’m genuinely curious which teachings from 100 years ago would resonate.

Blogger Ceasar May 03, 2018 8:14 PM  

Peterson's definition of evil is the one he believes most people will accept or understand. Telling people that evil is "the desire to do as one pleases" gives them a definition that most cannot or will not accept. After all, they spend most of their lives wishing they could just do as they please. That is their dream, their utopia. It would require them accepting the evil in themselves and choosing whether to fight that evil on a daily basis.

Blogger Unknown May 03, 2018 8:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Lovekraft May 03, 2018 8:25 PM  

@ RM Chris:

My proposal is based on my own experiences, beliefs etc so that's where logic but tempered with Christian teachings come in. A method of universality combined with effectiveness (has to be 'doable' but also can defend against inevitable attack).

Sorry to go O/T but the Mueller investigation has to end. If Trump doesn't shut it all down, backed by Sessions (who should threaten them with sedition charges), this dog ad pony show is, I believe, going to cause as damaging an impact on the American psyche as other historical crises.

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 03, 2018 8:26 PM  

Time to resurrect the Church Militant. There's been a dereliction of duty and an opportunity.

Blogger Blastman May 03, 2018 8:35 PM  

My take on JP so far is that he is a materialistic evolutionist.

Evolutionary psychology + Darwinian evolution survival of the fittest and materialism pretty well sums up a large portion of modern psychology. The only reality is one's survival, and since each person finds himself in a different situation, each person's reality for survival is different. Hence, if each person's reality is different, their truth is different.

This is not compatible with Christianity, its worldview and its understanding of man. Modern psychology is steeped in a humanistic materialism and hence its view of man as compared to and informed by Christianity is deeply flawed.

The Bible -- well that's a nice story that has helped the Christian West do very well, so it's useful in that sense. But it's just a story -- in reality man has no soul, no sin, and no redemption of man by Jesus. Throw out truth for good measure and how is one to live under such a worldview? I think the end result is the very dysfunction in society that JP is trying to fix. His worldview can't or won't fix society or man, because it's the very same messed up worldview that leads down the drain.

Blogger Skyler the Weird May 03, 2018 8:44 PM  

Deny yourself take up your cross and follow me vs. Indulge yourself and Do what thou Wilt.

Blogger Eze Garcés May 03, 2018 8:45 PM  

x2

Blogger Aeoli May 03, 2018 8:46 PM  

When you finally get around to stating what you're implying, I want you to remember I called it on April 19, and you told me I didn't understand subsets.

Blogger R Webfoot May 03, 2018 9:00 PM  

"Hitler didnt desire to cause suffering. He eliminated the jews in the most practical humane manner with the sole motivation of helping the german people. Jordan petersen doesnt think hitler was evil."

Jordan Peterson believes that as the war was ending, the Nazis could have exploited the prisoners for slave labor, but senselessly killed them anyway, and infers from this that senseless killing was the whole point. His favorite story about the Holocaust is the one where the guards would make newcomers carry bags of wet salt across the camp, and then back to the starting point, to make a mockery of the camp slogan.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora May 03, 2018 9:05 PM  

@13. Ceasar

If that's so it's not honest and he's failing his own standard. You tell the truth and let those who accept it or reject it naturally filter themselves accordingly. What's the value in making up crappier definitions for a bigger appeal? Of course this is probably just another ad hoc interpretation of JBP's nonsense.

Blogger Carl Philipp May 03, 2018 9:13 PM  

I think the core of Jordan Peterson's advice is the idea of walking the line between order and chaos - and, he says, you are evolved to find that point, and that's when the world comes into clarity and you pay attention.

So you've just clarified precisely where he goes off the rails.

Woodstock hippies having their drug orgies, and the author of "Weed, Yoga, Adultery," were doing precisely that.

Like anything else humans do, the very sense of awe and wonder and focused Paying Attention he holds as his God, can become twisted and perverted to destroy us.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 03, 2018 9:21 PM  

"evil is the desire to cause suffering, where suffering is not necessary."

Lord Vetinari didn't believe in unnecessary cruelty.

Although necessary cruelty was another matter entirely.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 9:24 PM  

Vox also happens to be an award winning cruelty artist. If this cruelty and suffering is necessarily visited upon JBP, Vox is doing the right thing, by JBP's own moral compass.

Blogger wreckage May 03, 2018 10:04 PM  

So, Peterson has hung his entire moral philosophy on a restatement of Neitzsche? "Man is a a bridge between beast and overman"? Nietzsche as I understand it saw himself, or idealized himself, as amoral, or surpassing morality - not a compatible structure.

Parsed as the "sweet spot" of evolution - having the dynamism to change but the stability to retain advantage? That again only works for optimizing adaptability, it's not a compatible structure.

Can a smart, sensitive, fearful person break themselves by trying to weld the necessity of formal morality onto structures that cannot be foundational to formal morality?

To obtain the balance, and the through-and-through relational structure he seeks, he MUST abandon one or the other, at least as far as being parts of the same framework. Can he?

The best outcome for Peterson's health would be a relatively amicable debate between Vox and Peterson. Sure, the psychological surgery would be done without anesthesia, but it would be done, and I genuinely believe there is a kind of empathy in Vox when he reaches for his scalpel.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 10:09 PM  

Holy shit, Avalanche. Did you black out there for a second? That was amazing.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 10:14 PM  

https://youtu.be/e-NQSAL-c0c

Blogger cmbaileytstc May 03, 2018 10:29 PM  

OT: They are literally calling Trump "God-Emperor" in South Korea now.
https://twitter.com/Alexander_Avg/status/992183503059128322

Blogger wreckage May 03, 2018 10:31 PM  

Wait, what did Avalanche say?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 10:33 PM  

My bad, it was Wreckage. No wonder.

Blogger haus frau May 03, 2018 10:34 PM  

"Jordan Peterson believes that as the war was ending, the Nazis could have exploited the prisoners for slave labor, but senselessly killed them anyway, and infers from this that senseless killing was the whole point. "

So Jordan is cool with slave labor then?

Blogger Joshua Hardy May 03, 2018 10:34 PM  

"...evil is the desire to cause suffering, where suffering is not necessary."

That’s his summary of the motivation of random mass murderers-or it similar to his summary of random mass murders. They try to cause as much pain as possible in the most unfair way as possible.

That hardly constitutes not knowing, “a god damned thing” about evil. It might be misunderstanding a subcategory thereof, but that is all.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 10:37 PM  

It's total bullshit, Joshua Hardy. If I decide you need to suffer, then it's not evil if I pull your fingernails out with pliers.

Blogger wreckage May 03, 2018 10:40 PM  

There's a smart guy who lives in my head. He can't get out. When I read Taleb, it's not for me, I'm reading it out loud to the poor bastard. I'll pass on the compliment, thanks Animal.

@33 I think Vox is saying that at the end of the day, you don't go shooting people just because you like suffering; you also have to believe that you have some sort of right to do it, just because you want to. Everyone has cruel and destructive wants, after all.

Blogger Mocheirge May 03, 2018 10:49 PM  

Wouldn't refusing to use someone's preferred pronouns cause unnecessary suffering?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 10:51 PM  

Oh no that suffering is absolutely necessary.

Blogger The Stygian May 03, 2018 10:56 PM  

Original sin caters to those destructive wants.

Blogger Bogey May 03, 2018 11:01 PM  

"evil is the desire to cause suffering, where suffering is not necessary."

..and how many people are causing evil without the intention of doing so. Pretty lame statement from Mr. Peterson.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 03, 2018 11:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger R Webfoot May 03, 2018 11:05 PM  

"So Jordan is cool with slave labor then?"

No, but his point was to say that the Nazis weren't even just rationally and selfishly calculating, they were depraved and wished to inflict senseless misery for its own sake. Then he says, "that's evil," and defines good as doing the opposite, e.g., doing your best to reduce unnecessary suffering.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 03, 2018 11:06 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 03, 2018 11:07 PM  

This definition is necessary if you need to justify homosex. If you define evil as objective (objectivity being a concept JP seems to believe is false), and not based on intent rather than action, then some badthinker might link that to an intrinsic evil of some types of sexual activity.
If an action can be intrinsically evil, then homosex might fall under that category that would be unacceptable crimethink. If deliberately causing suffering is evil, what to think about BDSM? We daren't have a definition that includes that.
What we need is an absolutely relative definition of evil that can be deployed to both justify and condemn the same actions, depending on who/whom. JP's definition conveniently provides that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 03, 2018 11:08 PM  

Sorry about the multi-posts. I blame beer.

Blogger haus frau May 03, 2018 11:28 PM  

@41 "No, but his point was to say that the Nazis weren't even just rationally and selfishly calculating, they were depraved and wished to inflict senseless misery for its own sake. "

Ah I see. What makes you assume the Nazis didn't find this "irrational" infliction of misery quite useful? It would be very demoralizing for the prisoners and keep them occupied which would make them more controllable by the camp guards. Busy work isn't evil at all. Public school kids do that most of the day.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 03, 2018 11:33 PM  

Maybe Arbeit Macht Frei was meant for the Germans. Doing the hard work of exterminating Jews led to freedom in their minds. That would make the Holocaust necessary.

Blogger Steve May 03, 2018 11:44 PM  

If a hard core leftist becomes a libertarian is that a win? A start? Progress?

Blogger Blastman May 04, 2018 12:07 AM  

"evil is the desire to cause suffering, where suffering is not necessary."

Mob boss John Gotti to the guy who is late on making his loan payment …

"You're not gonna like this … but it's necessary."

Blogger Dire Badger May 04, 2018 12:07 AM  

Steve wrote:If a hard core leftist becomes a libertarian is that a win? A start? Progress?

It's like hooking a coke addict on meth. Sure, it's different, but it's still just exchanging one twisted stupidity for another.

Blogger wreckage May 04, 2018 12:27 AM  

I'd argue that a Libertarian, if focused on traditional rights and understanding that morality and the legalism of Libertarianism are not the same thing, can be enlightened without having to discard his identity, whereas for a leftist, the entire identity must be discarded.

Blogger Bogey May 04, 2018 12:57 AM  

"and defines good as doing the opposite, e.g., doing your best to reduce unnecessary suffering."

Sounds like an SJW.

Blogger LP999-16 May 04, 2018 1:17 AM  

Currently listening to latest Peri.

25 Whom is like an atty in the process of discovery in the JP matter. Ruthless truth seeking and the deconstruction of lies and errors will not end with a few posts.

Tweets: Wouldn't it be great if Alex picked up on calling the POTUS the GE, that would be epic triggering, so cool. Think of the T-shirts! If SOKO picked up on GE, the American media will be dragged kicking and screaming to complain about calling the POTUS the GEOTUS.

Blogger Archella May 04, 2018 2:13 AM  

The production values quality has steadily increased, and I thought the first one, had surprisingly high quality. Just critiquing it on that alone, these will have a great impact over the long term.

Blogger tublecane May 04, 2018 2:26 AM  

@13- In his essential book on PC, Thought Prison, Bruce Charlton has it that the reason Current Year types get so bothered abo it sex--which isn't obvious to a person like myself--because they are devoid of purpose and live for nothing but material satisfaction. Threaten their pursuit of satisfaction, and they glimpse life with nothing to live for. That's frightening. Despair follows.

Blogger LP999-16 May 04, 2018 2:26 AM  

OT: Thank you InfoG, I binge on PS4 Nioh and wanted to read more about Oda's life, sure enough; https://infogalactic.com/info/Oda_Nobunaga

I really hope the segment with AJ is about an hour or expansive because this is a serious issue beyond JP, it regards not only the JQ but the matter of "self aware evil." Also callers will be so interested in what Vox has to explain.

RE: Evil

Why do we believe in Jesus? Or why do I believe? Jesus is an irresistible place of forgiveness, holiness, peace, rest and healing, so much more. So many are speechless at such grace, he waited 30 years to begin, preached for 3 years and we are still talking about Jesus Christ.

I wish egos would be set aside to just open one's mind or eyes to their errors in thinking whoever the medicated mind suffering from depression or a malady is going to fight that and close down or run from what is not a insult fest but an open and honest debate.

Real healing arrives when one accepts where they are wrong and accepts correction and listens to where they are wrong.

For example, where was Vox unkind with Anglin? Nowhere, in these debates all I've heard all the issue is surrounds the truth.

It is to their loss and their detriment that public figures whom are propped up as so smart refuse to debate Vox.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len May 04, 2018 2:28 AM  

@13 - Trying to win people to your side by making mortal sins venial and venial ones not sin at all has a long history. It's often referred to by those who recognize it as casuistry, or more specifically, Jesuitry.

Blogger LP999-16 May 04, 2018 2:31 AM  

Forgive me in advance, I am not making a personal attack but a mere observation; Vox to Cerno even Milo and other men whom are public figures to those around here are not egotistical jerks, those whom they face or request to debate are not only ego obsessed but liars and fools.

Even PJW has had people run from debating him, Owen asks simple questions and leftoids shriek and run.

Only fakes run off.

Blogger tublecane May 04, 2018 2:34 AM  

@21- Might we flip Peterson if we could convince him the Germans actually were exploiting Jews for slave labor, which is true, and that Albert Speer kept ahead of the Allies' onslaught against German industry?

In any case, focusing solely on their value as labor ignores the fact that the Nazis were genuinely concerned with ridding their country of what they considered a hostile alien race. If the Nazis in fact attempted to exterminate the Jews, it wasn't just for the evulz or the lulz. There were other considerations.

Blogger tublecane May 04, 2018 2:38 AM  

@23- That interpretation makes him out to be more aesthetically-minded than psychological, mythological, pragmatically, or whatever else people have been saying about him. Which of course fits in with his admiration for Nietzsche.

Beauty is in one sense a balance between order and chaos. Too much chaos, and it's confusing. See postmodernism. Too much order and it's boring. See modernism.

Anonymous Anonymous May 04, 2018 3:33 AM  

I have to admit. When I watch Jordan Peterson's videos, he takes on an aspect where I instinctively want to support him. He does a good job at looking like he really is arrayed against left, not just the radical left. I know his philosophies are incoherent. I know the video medium is inherently rhetorical. I know he's anti-nationalist and anti the European peoples, and anti Christianity.

But I can understand the fan-boyism. When he appears on Fox, ABC, NBC, BBC, and he declaims post-modernism & gender pro-nouns he seems the quintessential man of reason.

But then I listened to him on CBC News in a video called 'Jordan Peterson on political polarization & Pepe the Frog'.
First he's asked why young men like him, and he says because he explains responsibility through mythical archetypes, and young men have spent 50 years innured in rights based values. Okay - all to the good.

Asked why if he is part of the general polarization of society he said:

"I don't think so. Um, the reason I don't think so is because I've had hundreds of letters from people who have told me they have become increasingly attracted for various reasons for example by the blandishments of the radical right. But because they'd been listening to what I'd been saying on line they'd decided that that was a very bad idea. And I don't like right wing identitarians. I think they play the same game as the radical leftists, which is identity politics. They just play a different version of it. But I'm no fan of the radical right either. I've been lecturing about the danger of Nazi totalitarianism for three decades, to inoculate people against the attraction of that sort of thing.

Then the reporter says the Canadian government cut his research funding after he resisted the traps, and Rebel Media helped him achieve his high patreon monthly incomings in response.

He's so fucking ambiguous. Then the Canadian lady asks him why he still appears on RebelMedia platforms with their personnel after Charlottesville. Apparently the Canadian conservative leader Andrew Scheer said RebelMedia represent hate speech, and Peterson says:

"You don't think we should talk to the right? I talk to people who want to talk to me, generally speaking. I don't see any reason not to talk to people who are on the right. I talk to people on the left when they want to talk, which is very very rarely".

Then the purple haired short cut passive aggressive bitch reporter produces a photo of JP with two guys holding a Pepe flag, one wearing a Maga hat, and doing the apostrophe hand sign lol. He asks her 'why do you think I get the reactions I get' - he knows she's about to spring a gotcha\ just before she does. He is smart.

Then she says 'you know it's a hate symbol' and he says 'the left think a lot of things are a hate symbol'.

She says 'it's an alt-right hate symbol' and Peterson says 'it's just used by young men poking and causing trouble on social media'.

"you're supposed to be anti-chaos - why would you choose to be in this photo".
He said "I've probably had photos with 5000 people".

Lol he's smart. So he knew the photo existed and did a fricken video on 'the metaphysics of Pepe'. A 2 hour discussion.

Anonymous Anonymous May 04, 2018 3:34 AM  

She's still trying to nail him to it - 'could it be misinterpreted'. He said - yes it can be misinterpreted. It was purely happenstance. Then he says it's the one photo the left use against him.

He says most people are using it in a deeply satirical way, and just because the right are using it as a radical indicator of the validity of their view doesn't mean that's what it is. Something no one has seen before. There is a lot of game playing.

Lol then the bitch refers to a tweet he made that says 'Kekboys. Seek your 4chan. Don't stay in the underworld. Author your future. Free for u 4 1 week. Code Pepe'.

Lol he's actually farming 4 chan for customers.

He's so smart aye. So he says 'I'm asking them to come forth out of the chaos and emerge as individuals'.

The Dyke says "but they're giving you lots of shekels'.

He says, 'what would you do then? I'm trying to get people out of a radical ideology and get away from it as an individual. They're lost in nihilism, and they're angry. I have something better for them. Grow up. Assert as an individual. That's why I made the tweet, and I get letters all the time from people saying I was moving towards the fringes, and now I'm not anymore.

The dyke says - are you the next Billy Mcluin? Billy Graham? Are you a prophet?

"We're in a new world. So I have this immense multimedia platform. And I don't know exactly what to do with it. Now I'm making videos, interviewing people, shaping as it's developing. The overwhelming likelihood is that this will go terribly wrong. I've always known that. Things go wrong all the time.

What are you afraid of?

Saying something inappropriate?

Why would you say something inappropriate? You've made a lot of people angry?

JP: 'that's not the same thing'. People make mistakes. And so I've been in this situation for 15 months, where I'm speaking publically and I've been in the media a lot, and people are waiting with things like this photo and maybe you made a mistake.

Did you make one? I don't think so. I think I understand what's going on with Kekboys and Pepe. I've studied it. So I don't think I've made a mistake. So I think that's the case because of the feedback I'm getting from people saying I've straightened out my life.

I think it's unlikely it will continue in a positive direction. It's too much, aye. It's been too much for a long time. But so far so good... but I'm surfing a 100 foot wave and generally you drown."

Vox you have to admit this is powerful stuff. He's positioning himself as the sacrificial prisoner to be hoisted up on the cross by hands from the right and the left. He speaks in biblical register. Maybe you could adopt the same rhetoric.

Nah he's solidly Bill Kristol. But his rhetoric is incredible.








Blogger VD May 04, 2018 4:35 AM  

he's solidly Bill Kristol. But his rhetoric is incredible.

He's the crazy bastard spawn of Bill Kristol and Deepak Chopra.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 04, 2018 4:39 AM  

http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/this-should-be-amusing.html#c3890155325548916984

Blogger David Power May 04, 2018 5:07 AM  

I'm pretty sure I've heard him say that 'evil in its purest form; is to cause suffering to others for the sole sake of causing that suffering.'

That does not meanie believes that causing suffering to others for selfish motives, isn't evil.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 04, 2018 5:26 AM  

His notion of evil (as an expression of cruelty) seems orthogonal to his notion of truth (as serving evo-psych), such as they are. It truth related to good in his ontology? Is good opposite evil? His transcendentals lack clarity.

Anonymous Anonymous May 04, 2018 5:27 AM  

Steve wrote:If a hard core leftist becomes a libertarian is that a win? A start? Progress?

Depends on the type of "libertarian" you propose. The left-wing libertarians are just "cool" commies. The beltway libertarians are just "cool" cuckservatives.

Just like socialists stole the name "liberal" long ago, they same people now use "libertarian" and so cause confusion.

Now, if you mean Rothbardian type right wing market anarchy then it sure would be a fine fist step. But Rothbard told us that it was a political philosophy. It tells us what is legal, not what we should do. What should we do given the mess we are in now?

A taste of that can be seen in this dated (1992) essay on right-wing populism.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/02/murray-n-rothbard/program-right-wing-populism/

Murray Rothbard was a big backer of Pat Buchanan. (as was I) To this day, I think that if Pat had won the nomination we might have made a huge difference in slowing the deterioration of the culture.

Some ignorant dicks will no doubt come along and yell that you must have a strong government and that all we need is the right leader. Sure. How has that worked out so far?

Anyway, read the short essay for an answer to your question.


Anonymous Anonymous May 04, 2018 5:30 AM  

"He's the crazy bastard spawn of Bill Kristol and Deepak Chopra." -- VD

That has to be the funnest comment on the thread so far.

Blogger Uncle John's Band May 04, 2018 5:43 AM  

His ontology does make sense from a gamma ego protection perspective though. Truth is what best serves you in his evo-psych sense, and, with self-authorship as the methodology, only you are the arbiter of that. He writes his own reality (self-authorship + expanding delusion bubble is sort of terrifying) so he is, on some level, "answerable" only to himself (literally Satanic).

At the same time, the gamma is fear driven, so very much lives in the real world, at least subconsciously. His extremity of evil is what he most fears someone doing to him.

It is annoying that even trying to summarize these positions is turgid.

Blogger David Power May 04, 2018 6:19 AM  


Good and evil are not binary and Peterson was obviously talking about 'pure' evil.

Were we not told to love our neighbour but also told that the purest form of that love is to sacrifice ones own life for them?

Conversely, is it not fair therefore to construe that say; the act of shooting dead the home owner of the house you are robbing because you were discovered, is an act of evil, but breaking into a house for the sole purpose of torturing the home owner to death, is an act of pure evil?

Blogger VD May 04, 2018 6:34 AM  

Good and evil are not binary and Peterson was obviously talking about 'pure' evil.

No, because he was defining evil and the definitions of good and evil are not only "binary", they are literally polar opposites. One thing you crazy cultists repeatedly do is claim that Peterson is saying something other than what he has actually said or written. This is not an effective way to convince anyone that the man is not an evil influence on you.

Conversely, is it not fair therefore to construe that say; the act of shooting dead the home owner of the house you are robbing because you were discovered, is an act of evil, but breaking into a house for the sole purpose of torturing the home owner to death, is an act of pure evil?

No. Stop construing and interpreting and translating and start paying attention to the man's actual words.

Blogger szopen May 04, 2018 6:40 AM  

A personal digression.

You know what y'all, I've just went back to a bunch of JP videos and I must say I am really confused at that point.

I haven't read any of his books or watched longer lectures, only a lot of small bits of videos some time aog, but in the past I thought, judging on those bits, that he might be great, influential thinker. He always seemed to be right-wing, conservative. Few of his ideas I've found very interesting, even if maybe not original and his videos were - and still are - very entertaining. Part of that were just things I've already know, but given with very useful rhetorical arguments, plus it was always entertaining to watch how he connects to the audience.

I stopped watching him about the same time his fame started to rise, because I had more fun things to do in life, but I was always promising to myself that I would go back one day and read his things in more length, because those bits I saw on youtube were so good.

But when I read VD and start to think about it, it's like a different person. It's like different JP was writing the books, yet another answers interviews, and another JP was making videos.

I've just watched his rant about young leftist activist saying they want to change their world when they can't even take care of their own lifes - and the rhetorics and performance was top notch. Then I read the precis of his map of meanings - and it's a effing mess. I've read first chapter of map of meanings and then it makes more sense (in a sense of readability and making a position to argue) but it's not that related to the precis. His videos makes one genuinely _wanting_ him to be a good guy, but then you read his precis and VD's takes on him and you start to feel like a gullible client of a charlatan.

What the hell? How can one present two such different personas?

I would really, really love to read (not watch, because even even on 2x speed reading is faster) the debate between VD and him and to see which JP is true one.

Blogger Brett baker May 04, 2018 6:41 AM  

I wish you hadn't created that image, Supreme Dark Lord.

Blogger VD May 04, 2018 6:51 AM  

I wish you hadn't created that image, Supreme Dark Lord.

What image?

Blogger VD May 04, 2018 6:57 AM  

What the hell? How can one present two such different personas?

I told you. The man is crazy. Literally crazy. For all we know, he's not just taking medication for depression, but for schizophrenia.

What concerns me most is the grandiosity he revealed in his letter to his father. It's also clear that he is, to some extent, a media creation. Note this from the Foreword of 12 Rules of Life.

[TV producer] Wodek [Szemberg] is a silver-haired lion-maned hunter, always on the lookout for potential public intellectuals, who knows how to spot people who can REALLY talk in front of a TV camera and who look authentic... That day Wodek brought a psychology professor, from my own University of Toronoto, who fit the bill: intellect and emotion in tandem.

Blogger Nate May 04, 2018 8:17 AM  

That is... without question... the dumbest definition of evil I have ever heard. And i'm a father of five... so I'm counting it below things like "Evil means doing bad stuff." Because "doing bad stuff" is in fact more accurate.

Blogger David Power May 04, 2018 10:35 AM  

Your attempts to find fault in Peterson is starting to resemble a monkey looking for fleas.

Here is his actual view on the nature of evil when not take out of context...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1017s&v=Rys45B4OhV0

Blogger Wishing Star May 04, 2018 2:16 PM  

Vox should start a theology blog. I've learned as much from him in three years as I did in 20 years of church. I never realized how biblically ignorant I was until finding this blog.

Blogger Brett baker May 04, 2018 2:56 PM  

The image of Kristol and Chopra holding up baby Peterson, like a birth announcement photo. (I may have too much imagination.)

Blogger Brett baker May 04, 2018 2:56 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Shawn Hetherington May 05, 2018 10:22 AM  

Evil, per Christianity, is anything that is contrary to the nature or will of God.

Aquinas elaborates that it is the lack of good :"But evil has no formal cause, rather is it a privation of form; likewise, neither has it a final cause, but rather is it a privation of order to the proper end; "

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1049.htm

Cheers, :)

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