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Sunday, June 24, 2018

"I am not a right-winger"

It is simply astonishing how many people simply refuse to accept that a card-carrying socialist academic is, in fact, a man of the Left, even when the guy repeatedly insists that he is. From the comments of the most recent Darkstream.

Praxis71: I agree with your assessment of Peterson, but he’s not a “leftist”... that’s absurd.  The guy is simply a classical liberal although yes, he does sometimes contradict himself.

The Sydney Morning Herald: What do you think of the things that people, and I'm especially thinking of your opponents, get wrong about you?

Jordan Peterson: Their basic proposition is that, you know, first of all, that I'm a right winger of some sort and that's just not the case.

How can it be absurd to simply state the observable, provable truth? I repeat: Jordan Peterson is not a man of the Right. By his own admission, he is not a right winger of ANY sort. Jordan Peterson is not on the side of civilization and the West. Jordan Peterson is not a positive influence on anyone. Jordan Peterson is actively seeking the destruction of your family, your nation, and your civilization, because he believes that is necessary in order to prevent World War III.

And yes, he is quite crazy. That's why he is prescribed the relevant medication, because he is mentally ill.

Seriously, what is wrong with you people? The fact that one leftist occasionally disagrees with another leftist does not place either of them on the ideological Right! I feel like I'm talking to particularly obtuse Germans in the early 1930s.

"Look, Hitler is NOT a good German! He does NOT have Germany's best interests in mind. He's not even German, for crying out loud!"

"Ja, but he fights Communists! So he must be a good Christian man who luffs Germany, ja?"

And people wonder why I despise binary thinkers. The Abelardian approach applies to truth, not to qualitative analysis. This isn't that hard. FFS, if you know a gradient exists, then there are by definition more than two possibilities!

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125 Comments:

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2018 11:11 AM  

> Jordan Peterson is not on the side of civilization and the West.

This is the key point. Just because he supports a couple of the minor details of western civilization doesn't mean he supports the system that makes them possible, or even understands that the system is what makes them possible.

Blogger Ken Prescott June 24, 2018 11:13 AM  

I'm not a right-winger. I'm a rotary-winger. A faithful follower of the Great Ascended Master, Igor Sikorski (PBUH), and His Prophet, General Augustino Pinochet.

Blogger Matt June 24, 2018 11:17 AM  

Vox, do you even clean you room? You can talk when you clean your room. All of you, clean your rooms. Smells like a darn flophouse, roughly speaking, eh

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 11:18 AM  

Jordan Peterson is a globalist with a few confused traditional liberal ideas, so he occasionally scores an own goal, which annoys his team, that's all...

Blogger Harris June 24, 2018 11:19 AM  

I agree that Peterson is not a right-winger. But I'm not so quick to condemn Peterson - for the same reason the USA was allies with the Soviet Union in WWII. He fights against the fascists, even if he is a left-winger.

Having said that, I believe VoxDay has provided a useful service in reminding all of us that Peterson is not the guy we want to follow. I'm cautiously in favor of Peterson's continued condemnations of the extreme left-wing militaristic type attitudes and actions against other left wingers, and all right wingers.

To me, VoxDay is similar to Ann Coulter. He keeps the pressure on to move in the correct direction. So even if I don't always agree with his stridency, I'm not going to discourage his rhetoric. Ultimately, he's helping the cause. And I'm in favor of that. He's absolutely correct that the ONLY hope for the West and America is a return to the Christian roots of our civilization, and an unapologetic rejection of both secularism, and other religions of the world. Our hope is Christ, and Christ alone.

Keep up the good work, VoxDay!

Blogger Harris June 24, 2018 11:22 AM  

One more thought. The twin pillars of belief in Evolution and Psychology need to be destroyed if the West is to survive. Neither field is supported by actual real science. Both are philosophical psuedo-religious ideologies masquerading as science.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 11:24 AM  

@3 Japanese children clean their own classrooms...maybe JP would like it there...

Blogger Cubby8126 June 24, 2018 11:26 AM  

It should be enough to hear or read "im a classical liberal" to understand they are not of the right. Vox, i think MPAI is turning into MPAR, most people are retarted

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 11:30 AM  

O/T More good news from Italy..https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/italy/italy-will-no-longer-recuse-migrant-ships-from-libya/

Blogger Don't Call Me Len June 24, 2018 11:31 AM  

@5 - Canadian Jeebus doesn't fight fascists, he is one, the globalist Rudolf Hess. Why are you actively refusing to recognize that?

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 11:33 AM  

Jordan Peterson is dead center. His ideology is vomit: a little bit of socialism, a little bit of anarcho-capitalism, a little bit of conservatism. The scent of predigested ideas is apparent.

Words have meaning. A socialist is someone who advocates for the public ownership of the means of production. In which one of his videos or writings or interviews did he do that? I would say that you are lying but it's clear that you have not a single iota of a clue of what "public ownership of the means of production" even is, therefore you lack culpable intent. You're using the United States political definition of "socialism" with is exclusively for the small-time and dumb, having been carefully reduced to and catered for the lowest common denominator.

Blogger wreckage June 24, 2018 11:37 AM  

Who used the word "socialist"?

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2018 11:42 AM  

> Jordan Peterson is dead center.

Repeating a lie multiple times still doesn't make it true.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2018 11:47 AM  

wreckage wrote:Who used the word "socialist"?
He's in the middle of a Gamma rage spiral. Don't expect him to make sense, or even read the words he's responding to.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 11:49 AM  

Cogniblog,

The man said himself he isn't a right winger. Who are you going to believe? You, or the man himself?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2018 11:50 AM  

YOU WILL BELIEVE CORNHOLEBLOG!
SECRET GENIUS IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

Blogger The Gray Man June 24, 2018 11:50 AM  

Cogniblog has absolutely no idea who Vox is.

Did you ever look at Vox's articles and posts on economics? Did you know that Vox doesn't live in the US?

Have you ever read Socialism by Ludwig von Mises?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 11:51 AM  

Harris, then USSR wasn't fighting fascists in WW2. It was fighting national socialists.

Have you ever watched Freddy vs Jason and tried to decide who the good guy was?

Blogger Rob June 24, 2018 11:51 AM  

Your comparison is wrong and misleading. JBP is actively fighting and trying to undermine our cause. In WW2, Russia was an 'ally' against a common enemy. He is not fighting facists, he is one himself(RE Faith Goldy)

Blogger The Gray Man June 24, 2018 11:52 AM  

It is amusing to watch someone like Cogniblog come in and accuse Vox of not knowing what he's talking about when Cogniblog himself doesn't know:

1) Anything about Vox,
2) Anything about Jordan Peterson.

"I am not a right winger"

So saith the Jordan Bamboozler Peterson.

Anonymous Anonymous June 24, 2018 11:54 AM  

I reject liberalism (including so-called “classical liberalism”)... thus I reject Muh Free Market. I’m a populist and nationalist. Classify me.... left or right?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 11:56 AM  

One less Muslim bomb maker.

https://apnews.com/379787116e1d42009305b01cf23f8815

Blogger The Gray Man June 24, 2018 11:57 AM  

Easy, MickDundee.

You're a Gamma.

Anonymous Anonymous June 24, 2018 12:03 PM  

You’re a fag

Blogger Rob June 24, 2018 12:05 PM  

- A socialist is someone who advocates for the public ownership of the means of production

No, that's just the lie you're being told. The fact that you believe that shows just how many single iotas you know about anything. None.

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 24, 2018 12:08 PM  

It's telling that nothing draws out the gamma rageposters like JBP criticism.

Blogger The Gray Man June 24, 2018 12:10 PM  

Did MickDundee forget to take his medication?

Mick, did you learn how to clean your room recently?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 12:10 PM  

It is. That why we need more JBP criticism.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 12:12 PM  

"To me, VoxDay is similar to Ann Coulter. He keeps the pressure on to move in the correct direction. So even if I don't always agree with his stridency, I'm not going to discourage his rhetoric. Ultimately, he's helping the cause. And I'm in favor of that. He's absolutely correct that the ONLY hope for the West and America is a return to the Christian roots of our civilization, and an unapologetic rejection of both secularism, and other religions of the world. Our hope is Christ, and Christ alone."

There are some mild similarities between Ann and Vox, but far more differences. I own 3 of Ann's books, having read 2 twice, yet I find her "knee jerk" reactions to reality... interesting. She is a pundit alone and not a "Doer" like Vox, so she needs the hectic clickbait go-rounds to get attention, or she could be a role player, so not sure. Yet she is on the Right side so her pundit attitude is forgiven by me. Vox is much more measured, as he's always ready to wait and see. His Culture War attitude, backed by creating the Right's Culture Wars, along with encouraging others to do so is far more critical than any talking head.

* Ann's "pressure" is to often knee jerk reactions, but in a basically good directions. But it is also passive talking.

* Vox's pressure is active and creative, as he is actively projecting the necessary new reality that we are swinging toward, and he is getting many other people to participate in these amazing efforts. He knows how to multiply FORCE TO THE RIGHT.

The differences here are more important than the similarities.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2018 12:13 PM  

NO GOOGLES wrote:It's telling that nothing draws out the gamma rageposters like JBP criticism.
It is a notable correlation.
Although, as I think about it, I would say that the Evolution and Atheism threads get plenty, but they tend to be smarter.

The alt-Retard threads have more, but they're a LOT stupider. But there's a lot of overlap with the PBJ fans and Nazis.

Blogger Lance E June 24, 2018 12:17 PM  

I believe the confusion for these "right-leaning centrists" is that for them the word leftist is a caricature, just as the word fascist is for those on the left. So when they hear the word leftist they think "Communist, Antifa, #Resistfag, Tranny Mafia, Intersectional Feminist, etc." And in their minds the next logical step is "JBP clearly isn't any of those things."

Their internal Overton window is all messed up, corresponding neither to reality nor the progressive frame. I think they do understand gradients, but their idea of the "center" is anything between MSNBC and Fox News, which is more or less the area JBP occupies.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:20 PM  

The man said himself he isn't a right winger. Who are you going to believe? You, or the man himself?

"I am not a right winger" So saith the Jordan Bamboozler Peterson.

I said he was center, not right-wing. The term "right-wing" is defined so that it is disjoint from "center". It is defined to be the wing that is right FROM center. Not right AS center.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:22 PM  

There's no secret about it.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 12:25 PM  

So a UN worker is a "center" person. Not at all, and that's why Globalist/NWO/OpenBorders nonsense has to be recognized as the enemy.

Blogger Gritón del Desierto June 24, 2018 12:26 PM  

But...but he said that You must clean your room and that makes him christian,right? That's in the bible,right? The room thing...

Blogger Harris June 24, 2018 12:26 PM  

tuberman wrote:"To me, VoxDay is similar to Ann Coulter. He keeps the pressure on to move in the correct direction. So even if I don't always agree with his stridency, I'm not going to discourage his rhetoric. Ultimately, he's helping the cause. And I'm in favor of that. He's absolutely correct that the ONLY hope for the West and America is a return to the Christian roots of our civilization, and an unapologetic rejection of both secularism, and other religions of the world. Our hope is Christ, and Christ alone."

There are some mild similarities between Ann and Vox, but far more differences. I own 3 of Ann's books, having read 2 twice, yet I find her "knee jerk" reactions to reality... interesting. She is a pundit alone and not a "Doer" like Vox, so she needs the hectic clickbait go-rounds to get attention, or she could be a role player, so not sure. Yet she is on the Right side so her pundit attitude is forgiven by me. Vox is much more measured, as he's always ready to wait and see. His Culture War attitude, backed by creating the Right's Culture Wars, along with encouraging others to do so is far more critical than any talking head.

* Ann's "pressure" is to often knee jerk reactions, but in a basically good directions. But it is also passive talking.

* Vox's pressure is active and creative, as he is actively projecting the necessary new reality that we are swinging toward, and he is getting many other people to participate in these amazing efforts. He knows how to multiply FORCE TO THE RIGHT.

The differences here are more important than the similarities.



You're overthinking my comment. I merely contend that both are viewed as extemists in their own way. But if they are extremists, then they are extremists in the right way, helping to tilt the cultural and political battlefield back to the correct side.

I don't have the platform either of them have, so I celebrate the fact that each uses their platform for good. I don't have to agree with everything they say or do to appreciate their value.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 12:30 PM  

Chamber of Commerce = the enemy
Most of the Conservative Republican's = the enemy
All so-called center people allied with the UN and Open borders = the enemy

These are all Globalists and comped by the Leftists, and are there to cover for them, and help them.

Blogger The Gray Man June 24, 2018 12:30 PM  

To entirely reject the notion of right wing means you are either stupid or a leftist.

Peterson is a leftist, globalist shill.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 12:31 PM  

"So a UN worker is a "center" person. Not at all, and that's why Globalist/NWO/OpenBorders nonsense has to be recognized as the enemy."

I'd say that any affiliation with the UN is prima facia evidence that a person is the enemy, and they have to go back.....or else.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 24, 2018 12:32 PM  

He's an academic psychologist. An older term for that is "confidence man".

Blogger Lance E June 24, 2018 12:33 PM  

Cogniblog wrote:I said he was center, not right-wing. The term "right-wing" is defined so that it is disjoint from "center". It is defined to be the wing that is right FROM center. Not right AS center.

The question is: Center of what?

Clearly not the center of any meaningful left-right economic axis, nor a traditionalist-progressive axis (10 years ago doesn't count as "tradition"), nor the classical popular-government/royalist axis. So, what center? Do you even know?

Blogger Blume June 24, 2018 12:34 PM  

Cogniblog, Peterson was a member of the Canadian socialist party and an activist/promoter for it.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 12:34 PM  

@37 Just so. There is absolutely no case for open borders or mass immigration, it is harmful to the body politic in every way...But in the short run, it is economically beneficial to a small class of looters, whom you have pretty well identified.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 June 24, 2018 12:35 PM  

Bringing up 1930's Germany is very apt.

The leftwing was collapsing into communism and the relative Right was decaying into a less extreme socialism and an anti-nationalism that disrespected borders and favored foreign invasions.

Sounds very familiar.

Despite what happened in Italy, I don't believe there's much chance of the Western Left reforming back into patriotic social democrats. Their political power and,by extension, wealth are too strongly tied to reducing White people's power by mass 3rd world immigration.

The only chance for the West is for a much more aggressive and true Right that isn't corrupted by the racial capitalism of the globalists and is truly nationalistic with utmost respect for its and other nations borders.


Blogger Rob June 24, 2018 12:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rob June 24, 2018 12:43 PM  

The term "right-wing" is defined so that it is disjoint from "center".

Right wing means right from left, not from center. Center is not even a position. Centre-right means more to the left from right, but still right.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:44 PM  

Cogniblog, Peterson was a member of the Canadian socialist party and an activist/promoter for it.

From Infogalactic:

He also worked for the New Democratic Party (NDP) throughout his teenage years, but grew disenchanted with the party due to what he saw as a preponderance of "the intellectual, tweed-wearing middle-class socialist" who "didn't like the poor; they just hated the rich".

1. New Democratic Party is a social democratic party (i.e. center), not socialist. Again from Infogalactic's article on the social democracy: Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy. Socialists don't believe in working in the framework of a capitalist economy... because public ownership is incompatible with private ownership.

2. He explicitly said left it because it was "too socialist" (i.e. too left) for him. That is, because his membership was not reflective of his political ideology.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:48 PM  

Right wing means right from left, not from center. Center is not even a position. Centre-right means more to the left from right, but still right.

LOL. Center is absolutely a position. Again from Infogalactic: centrism Your philosophy of politics is really confused and broken. :D

Blogger FP June 24, 2018 12:50 PM  

The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey wrote:He's an academic psychologist. An older term for that is "confidence man".

Exactly. An Ivory tower head-shrinker.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 12:52 PM  

"You're overthinking my comment."

Nope, and I was not attacking your comment either, as I did admit to the similarities. Yet, I was shedding new light on things that people do not follow up on all the time, so I was adding on to what you said, not rejecting it. Except, neither are "extreme" in the way most people conceive of extreme. They are merely, "pushing the Window," thus changing the Overton. But you may call it extreme.

In the same way, revealing the Truth just answers and pushes back against all the lies by our Narrative pushers, is not "extreme," it just takes away the false cloak of people like the MSM and their cohorts.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:55 PM  

The leftwing was collapsing into communism and the relative Right was decaying into a less extreme socialism and an anti-nationalism that disrespected borders and favored foreign invasions.

Nazi Germany was right-wing authoritarian... and the one kernel of truth in Jonah Goldberg's tomb of a book is that the economic position of Nazi Germany & the Europe of fascists was not the same as that of the right wing in the United States. He wouldn't have been able to write the book were it not for the kernel of truth in his thesis, no matter how broken and nonsensical the rest of it was.

The ruling party of Nazi Germany believed in using capital to secure the territory and grouse over it. This is strictly a right-wing authoritarian (lawful evil) way of viewing the economy. The United States (both parties) believes in using capital to get incestuously close to idealized market activity and to make the stock market bigger. This is a strictly narcissist (true evil) way of viewing the economy.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 12:58 PM  

Oh excellent. Another moron who thinks Nazi Germany was right wing. If you could just lead off with that every time you comment, others in the conversation can know right away to discount anything you say .

Blogger Ledford Ledford June 24, 2018 12:58 PM  

A left led by Peterson fans would be more dangerous. Right now, it's led by loony losers. After a Trump re-election, expect big money to line up behind an American Democrat aping Peterson. Can't happen now, the SJWs would crush it, but there could be opportunity later.

Yeah, Peterson is loony himself, but a Bill Clinton type, preferably a minority, repeating JBP talking points would be formidable.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora June 24, 2018 1:00 PM  

The fact that Peterson didn't recognize the leftism in academia as a problem until recently is a major tell that he is instinctually leftist. People tend to notice flaws in those with whom they disagree and overlook similar flaws with people they do agree with. Even Pinker was ahead of Peterson on this and that's saying something.

Blogger Rob June 24, 2018 1:01 PM  

LOL. Center is absolutely a position

Point taken. Still JBP is a mentally ill facist who needs meds to suppress visions of his niece getting cannibalized. How confused can one be to defend someone like that

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 24, 2018 1:03 PM  

I am not sure I'd want to choose between Ann Coulter or Vox Day. This is a civilizational course correction, not a personality cult of one. They each have skills, blessings, and talents. That they use them to make Western Civilization great is a blessing to us all. I'd want even more people shouldering that marvelous burden: more farmers, more writers, more videographers, more movie makers, more clothing makers, more furniture makers, more painters, more cooks.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2018 1:04 PM  

Cogniblog wrote:He explicitly said left it because it was "too socialist" (i.e. too left) for him.
This is a lie. He explicitly says, in the bit you yourself quoted, that he left it because it was not really Socialist, just envious.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 24, 2018 1:04 PM  

I am not sure I'd want to choose between Ann Coulter or Vox Day. This is a civilizational course correction, not a personality cult of one. They each have skills, blessings, and talents. That they use them to make Western Civilization great is a blessing to us all. I'd want even more people shouldering that marvelous burden: more farmers, more writers, more videographers, more movie makers, more clothing makers, more furniture makers, more painters, more cooks.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 24, 2018 1:05 PM  

You know what? I bet Peterson doesn't even clean his own room.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:05 PM  

Oh excellent. Another moron who thinks Nazi Germany was right wing. If you could just lead off with that every time you comment, others in the conversation can know right away to discount anything you say .

Right-wing authoritarian is an archetype, not an ideology. See the myriad of papers on right wing authoritarian personality. There is also a left-wing authoritarian personality which was the type of Marcus Aurelius, Abraham Lincoln, and Bill Clinton but it is considered lawful good and therefore not of interest to psychiatrists. In fact, the left-wing authoritarian archetype fully integrates the right-wing authoritarian archetype when it is completely developed.

Nazi Germany believed in capital and that is the beginning and the end of the similarities with the United States. The United States is all about getting close to the market and making the Dow Jones industrial bigger. This is true evil, not lawful evil.

And Ayn Rand was chaotic evil.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 1:07 PM  

We have a shill here, getting people to respond, so he can make more money by responding to them. Obvious turd.

The only positions that matter today are Globalist/NWO vs Nationalists, as there are Traitors from all the old positions, Left, Right, and center, and none of these matter in the old way. It's used by the shills to hide behind.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2018 1:08 PM  

O/T but too good to pass up...The genetic distance between sub-Saharan African and European populations is identical to the distance between wolves and coyotes....so maybe "coyotes" are a social construct...https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/06/24/fixation-index/

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:13 PM  

This is a lie. He explicitly says, in the bit you yourself quoted, that he left it because it was not really Socialist, just envious.

Okay. But he still left it because--again you can double check this and see for yourself, so I cannot be lying--it was too focused on class conflict. That what "because they didn't like the poor; they just hated the rich" means. There was too much instruction on class conflict that he really didn't believe was true. Therefore it was too far to the left for him.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:16 PM  

We have a shill here, getting people to respond, so he can make more money by responding to them. Obvious turd.

I'm not getting paid.

Blogger VD June 24, 2018 1:17 PM  

You're an idiot and a liar, Cogniblog. Jordan Peterson was, and is a Socialist. Capital-s. He is not a centrist in any way, shape, or form. He openly advocates for "the reasonable Left" today, he is a committed globalist and anti-nationalist, and he boasts of his work for the United Nations.

You obviously have not read his books.

I had attended several left-wing party congresses, as a student politician and active party worker. I hoped to emulate the socialist leaders. The left had a long and honorable history in Canada, and attracted some truly competent and caring people. However, I could not generate much respect for the numerous low-level party activists I encountered at these meetings. They seemed to live to complain. They had no career, frequently, and no family, no completed education—nothing but ideology. They were peevish, irritable, and little, in every sense of the word. I was faced, in consequence, with the mirror image of the problem I encountered on the college board: I did not admire many of the individuals who believed the same things I did. This additional complication furthered my existential confusion.

My college roommate, an insightful cynic, expressed skepticism regarding my ideological beliefs. He told me that the world could not be completely encapsulated within the boundaries of socialist philosophy. I had more or less come to this conclusion on my own, but had not admitted so much in words. Soon afterward, however, I read George Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier. This book finally undermined me—not only my socialist ideology, but my faith in ideological stances themselves. In the famous essay concluding that book (written for—and much to the dismay of—the British Left Book Club) Orwell described the great flaw of socialism, and the reason for its frequent failure to attract and maintain democratic power (at least in Britain). Orwell said, essentially, that socialists did not really like the poor. They merely hated the rich.2 His idea struck home instantly. Socialist ideology served to mask resentment and hatred, bred by failure. Many of the party activists I had encountered were using the ideals of social justice to rationalize their pursuit of personal revenge.

Whose fault was it that I was poor or uneducated and unadmired? Obviously, the fault of the rich, well-schooled and respected. How convenient, then, that the demands of revenge and abstract justice dovetailed! It was only right to obtain recompense from those more fortunate than me.

Of course, my socialist colleagues and I weren't out to hurt anyone. Quite the reverse. We were out to improve things—but we were going to start with other people. I came to see the temptation in this logic, the obvious flaw, the danger—but could also see that it did not exclusively characterize socialism. Anyone who was out to change the world by changing others was to be regarded with suspicion. The temptations of such a position were too great to be resisted.

It was not socialist ideology that posed the problem, then, but ideology as such.


Peterson has never rejected the objectives of socialism, just like the Trotskyites never gave up their objectives of world revolution even when they abandoned their Trotskyite identity.

Blogger VD June 24, 2018 1:20 PM  

Therefore it was too far to the left for him.

No. You have completely misunderstood him. He simply didn't like the PEOPLE or the fact that they weren't NICE. His goals are no different than all the other leftist globalists who want to rule over everyone and redistribute income.

Peterson is a lightweight. Anything that isn't nice and polite is "too ideological" for him. But that's all about style, not substance. And his substance remains far to the Left. No one who is against the existence of nations can be called a "centrist". Globalism is an intrinsically socialist position.

Blogger Lance E June 24, 2018 1:26 PM  

Cogniblog wrote:

(lawful evil)

Oh, a D&D analogy, that'll definitely add to the intellectual quality of the discussion.

It's surprising; it wasn't the man himself who turned me off of JBP (although perhaps it should have been), it's the stultifying mediocrity of his supporters. Who wants to run with a crowd of abject losers?

By the way, in real life, there is no "lawful evil" and there is no "chaotic good". The forces of chaos are evil, and the forces of order are righteous.

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 24, 2018 1:30 PM  

Jordan is the epitome of life on a fallen planet: it's fundamentally a test of character. Occasionally a superior intellect is an aid to forming right conclusions but 99.9% of it about character and nothing else.

Jordan's fans are uniformly deceived and/or deluded.

Blogger Looking Glass June 24, 2018 1:31 PM  

@66 VD

"Peterson is a lightweight. Anything that isn't nice and polite is "too ideological" for him. But that's all about style, not substance. And his substance remains far to the Left. No one who is against the existence of nations can be called a "centrist". Globalism is an intrinsically socialist position."

Given what we know about him, it's his physiology that drives the desire for nice & polite. He can't handle the stress. He's actually trying to implement a version of "safe spaces" because he cant handle it otherwise. He's stuck between his ideological desires (many instinctive) and the need to defend against the nightmares that haunt him. Literally, not figuratively.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:34 PM  

You're an idiot and a liar, Cogniblog.

I repudiate both of your accusations. I especially repudiate the last one.

He openly advocates for "the reasonable Left" today, he is a committed globalist and anti-nationalist, and he boasts of his work for the United Nations.

Leftists on reddit consider "the reasonable left" to be centrists. You seem to understand that the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea" is not really democratic, so why can't you also understand that the "reasonable left" is not really left? And none of the remaining three ideologies and organizations you've mixed up (globalism, anti-nationalism, and the United Nations) have anything to do with public ownership of the means of production. The last one in particular was founded by three capitalist countries (the U.K., France, and the U.S.), one communist (the Soviet Union), and one non-communist republican government. How you managed to consider the United Nations to be primarily about seizing the ownership of the means of productions is an enigma to me.

And to prove that globalism and anti-nationalism are orthogonal to socialism, behold, Ayn Rand was both, and nobody would consider HER to have been a socialist.

<excerpt>

Center is a mix of left and right, as its name implies. He obviously incorporates SOME of socialist thought, but that's not a sufficient condition to be a socialist, because he rejects the ideology of class consciousness. Do you think that the Buddhist who incorporates some of Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount or the Muslim who believes the Hebrew Psalms are divinely inspired becomes a Christian or a Jew respectively? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 1:35 PM  

"Nice" Globalists are a bigger threat than the violent nutjobs, as they out themselves to the pathological altruists. In fact, this altruism is the problem with the confused, as they cling to people like JP as an answer.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 1:38 PM  

Cogniblog

HE SAYS HE'S A SOCIALIST WITH HIS OWN MOUTH. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.

Blogger VD June 24, 2018 1:40 PM  

Leftists on reddit consider "the reasonable left" to be centrists.

Yes, and Bolsheviks considered the Mensheviks to be fascists. So what?

You seem to understand that the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea" is not really democratic, so why can't you also understand that the "reasonable left" is not really left?

Because it is, you moron.

And none of the remaining three ideologies and organizations you've mixed up (globalism, anti-nationalism, and the United Nations) have anything to do with public ownership of the means of production.

Public ownership of the means of production is only one of the ten pillars of Communism, you moron. You don't even understand what socialism IS. World revolution, globalism, and anti-nationalism are all left-wing ideologies. In fact, globalism and anti-nationalism are to the Left of Lenin and Stalin.

How you managed to consider the United Nations to be primarily about seizing the ownership of the means of productions is an enigma to me.

I didn't. You're just that stupid. Moron.

I especially repudiate the last one.

I retract the claim that you're a liar. You're not. You're just even dumber than I imagined.

Blogger VD June 24, 2018 1:43 PM  

He obviously incorporates SOME of socialist thought, but that's not a sufficient condition to be a socialist, because he rejects the ideology of class consciousness.

You're confusing Marxism with Socialism. Because you're a moron. Marxism is a SUBSET of Socialism, which itself is a subset of the Left.

Blogger Salt June 24, 2018 1:49 PM  

You seem to understand that the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea" is not really democratic, so why can't you also understand that the "reasonable left" is not really left?

Way to switch modifiers. Get it right. Democratic is not to North Korea as reasonable is not to the Left.

Blogger Harris June 24, 2018 1:49 PM  

tuberman wrote:"You're overthinking my comment."

Nope, and I was not attacking your comment either, as I did admit to the similarities. Yet, I was shedding new light on things that people do not follow up on all the time, so I was adding on to what you said, not rejecting it. Except, neither are "extreme" in the way most people conceive of extreme. They are merely, "pushing the Window," thus changing the Overton. But you may call it extreme.

In the same way, revealing the Truth just answers and pushes back against all the lies by our Narrative pushers, is not "extreme," it just takes away the false cloak of people like the MSM and their cohorts.


I've been called extreme myself. I don't consider it an epithet.

One of the BIG problems I have with Congress, and the reason I left the Republican party in 2006 is because they have a propensity to attack their own right wing - naively thinking that allowing the leftists to continue to redefine the "middle" by continually pushing left is a gentlemanly thing to do. We need those on the "extreme" right to counter balance the leftists.

The big crime of the last 50 years is that what was once "extreme" left wing is now considered "moderate conservatism." I don't always agree with the "style" of "rhetoric" that either VoxDay or Coulter engage in. And I don't have the zeal to root out supposed "heretics" like Peterson.

Truth is I don't really consider Peterson a heretic, because I never considered him a Pied Piper to the right. I don't trust any psychologist.

My point is to those on the right. Just because some may consider VoxDay extreme, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a point. You don't have to fully agree with VoxDay on Peterson. You can even think that Peterson is doing some good. But that doesn't mean that VoxDay isn't doing the right think by keeping up the pressure. The Republicans and "conservatives" have proven pretty useless in swinging the culture back towards the way that is the only path of survival for the West. It is beyond stupid to believe that taking issue with VoxDay over his opinions about Peterson helps the cause of pushing, and pushing, and pushing the culture back in the right direction.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2018 2:00 PM  

I believe a new dimension to explore has been opened up by these JP exposures.

We use to talk about pathological altruism, and many people cling to the thought that they have to be nice and "principled." These people seem to be the main body of the JP cult. Identity Politics will eventually destroy all this BS, of being Nice and not too "extreme" (hey, don't push that Overton Window too hard), and fighting back is just "Rude." Is there any way to red-pill these people faster? This is not innocence, it's fear and neurotic behavior (and fem thinking).

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 2:00 PM  

By the way, in real life, there is no "lawful evil" and there is no "chaotic good". The forces of chaos are evil, and the forces of order are righteous.

Everyone believes that Joseph Stalin was an extremely lawful ruler. Homicide was practically nonexistent! Would you say that because he was not good, therefore he was really "secretly chaotic"? You could, but it would sound extremely stupid.

And everyone knows Rahab was working for justice even though she broke the laws against treason of her nation and told a lie. Would you say that she was evil because she was unlawful? You could, but you would sound extremely stupid.

And do you really think there's no difference whatsoever between Marcus Aurelius and Friend Computer? They're both lawful, therefore it must be the case that both are equally good or Friend Computer was secretly a free-spirited rebel because he was evil?

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 24, 2018 2:06 PM  

@Cogniblog

Your arguments boil down to mental gymnastics aimed at labeling Peterson as a non-leftist.
You know "leftist" is seen as an evil and bad word therefore you try to rebrand leftists you like as "centrist" or "classical liberal", or "liberalist", or whatever the hell the new name du jour is. Fortunately for us the dictionary has a finite number of words.

This is also why you associated nazi-Germany with the Right. It's the only bad thing that managed to stick with being right-wing. This nazi label is on its way out too so ask yourself this. When national socialism will finally be associated rightfully with the Left, what sort of argument against the Right will you have that won't brand you instantly as a filthy leftist?

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 2:15 PM  

You know "leftist" is seen as an evil and bad word therefore you try to rebrand leftists you like as "centrist" or "classical liberal", or "liberalist", or whatever the hell the new name du jour is.

I don't like Peterson. When I said that

His ideology is vomit: a little bit of socialism, a little bit of anarcho-capitalism, a little bit of conservatism. The scent of predigested ideas is apparent.

did you really get the impression that I liked him? As if!

You know "leftist" is seen as an evil and bad word therefore you try to rebrand leftists you like as "centrist"

It's seen as a bad word because the communists were overt enemies of Christians while fascists and anarcho-capitalists weren't and aren't. So to be left-wing means that you're a Devil-worshipping homosexual Mexican Wiccan ready to bring in the new age crystal power and sacrifice a few goats and to be right-wing means you're a good ol' white rascally frat boy who drinks beer with the men and jerks off to porn with your buddies. But personally, left-wing ideology seems neutral (not necessarily "good") while right-wing ideology is positively absolutely evil.

Blogger OGRE June 24, 2018 2:16 PM  

Somebody's trying to get a post directed at himself in the main blog.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums June 24, 2018 2:29 PM  

@80

I rest my case.

You don't like Peterson. Peterson is associated with leftism. You want to rebrand Peterson as non-left in order to not soil the Left.

You then show us how in your mind associate leftism with devil-worship, new-age bullshit, animal sacrifice, and 3rd world shitholes. But associate right-wing with beer drinking frat boys and abstinence through porn use. Then state that the former elements are "neutral" while the latter are "evil".

You already lost the branding-battle if you in your own mind can't manage to associate anything positive with the left.

Blogger FUBARwest June 24, 2018 2:29 PM  

"But personally, left-wing ideology seems neutral (not necessarily "good") while right-wing ideology is positively absolutely evil."

And that's the problem. I'd suggest you read a few threads, pick up some history and philosophy books and mainly the Bible. As of now, you are way too short for this ride.

Left wing ideology has resulted in almost every instance in the 20th century of a government killing it's own citizens. Rethink your position.

Blogger Looking Glass June 24, 2018 2:32 PM  

@77 tuberman

Nice is Evil.

And important aspect of dealing with modern realities.

Blogger Peaceful Poster June 24, 2018 2:36 PM  

The NDP is left of f-ing Trudeau in Canada.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( "an entirely disconnected spew of word vomit" ) June 24, 2018 2:43 PM  

5. Harris June 24, 2018 11:19 AM
But I'm not so quick to condemn Peterson - for the same reason the USA was allies with the Soviet Union in WWII.


the world would have been a better place AND FEWER PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN MURDERED if we had allied with Germany.

or, you know, just let Stalin and Hitler chew each other to pieces.


> Jordan Peterson is dead center.

13. James Dixon June 24, 2018 11:42 AM
Repeating a lie multiple times still doesn't make it true.



it's better than that. Peterson himself, claims to be of the Left.

Cogniblog, in his purported "defense" of Peterson, has accused Peterson of lying about himself.


32. Cogniblog June 24, 2018 12:20 PM
It is defined to be the wing that is right FROM center. Not right AS center.



the International Socialists accuse the National Socialists of being 'Far Right'.

and we're the ones who are incoherent. uh huh.



70. Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:34 PM
I repudiate both of your accusations. I especially repudiate the last one.


you have lied and you have done so repeatedly.

one of your favored tactics is redefining terms in the middle of the debate, and then appealing to your own preferred definition while deprecating everyone else.

including the person who originally made the statement ( in this case, JBP ).

ie - you're appealing to your own 'authority' to arbitrate every point of conflict in the debate in favor of yourself WHILE YOU ARE A PARTY WITH AN INTEREST IN THE CONFLICT.

you know what? you can fuck right off, you lying, manipulative sack of shit.

i don't acknowledge your "right" or "ability" to constrain my definitions or thinking.



70. Cogniblog June 24, 2018 1:34 PM
Leftists on reddit


ermagerd.

he just appealed to the 'Authority' of Reddit.

what a fatuous fag.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 24, 2018 2:45 PM  

Another example in Canada is Garth Turner, an ex-member of parliament, now investment adviser. He lambastes right-wingers, using exactly that term. He does midwit multicultural, globalist cheer-leading, and Trump-hating, and yet he is often called right-wing on his own blob, apparently because he throws a few right-sounding morsels by criticizing the most extreme leftist trial-balloons that will surely destroy his own wealth.

He has big asset inflation gains, which is a hand-in-hand benefit of a dual system of socialism and central banking, such that the globalists are enthralled with their own genius at keeping the poor paid off and harnessing the investment gains of deficits, and mass-immigration, like a teeter-totter, devoid of moral and economic soundness.

Maybe new wealth motivates Jordan to put reins on the SJWs, too. The worst commies covet his wealth and those were the wars of which he speaks.

Blogger Alexandros June 24, 2018 2:46 PM  

There’s a new JBP oxford union interview on YouTube as of one hour ago. I’m sure we’ll hear about how Freud, Jung, and Darwin are going to save the West.

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2018 2:47 PM  

> I said he was center, not right-wing.

And I said "Repeating a lie multiple times still doesn't make it true."

> Nazi Germany was right-wing authoritarian.

See above. What part of National Socialism are you having problems with exactly?

> I'm not getting paid.

So you're stupid as well as a liar. OK.

> I repudiate both of your accusations. I especially repudiate the last one.

Liars never like being called liars. Strange that.

Blogger Matthew June 24, 2018 2:48 PM  

Note that Cogniblog hasn't been banned. This is the good kind of utterly wrong interlocutor.

Blogger Matthew June 24, 2018 2:49 PM  

He, like Jordan Peterson, is working out his own emotional problems in public.

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 24, 2018 2:49 PM  

Oof, reading Cogniblog's comments is like arguing with a 14 year old who read the wikipedia entry on "socialism" and thinks they know everything.

You are too short for this ride and too self-assured to realize it. "Not completely a communist = centrist" is a false construction and an obvious one at that. JBP himself says he is of the left and emphatically denies the right. You are deluding yourself because you are or want to be a Peterson cultist.

Blogger Cogniblog June 24, 2018 2:53 PM  

I need to take a moment to be sarcastic and satirical. In the United States, if you support increased social spending and affirmative action for blacks and Hispanics you're a Communist. If you support privatization of all public schools and a flat tax of three percent you're a centrist. And if you support privatization of roads and the government to be entirely funded by voluntary fees you're right of center!

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2018 3:05 PM  

> I need to take a moment to be sarcastic and satirical.

Strangely, it's impossible to tell any difference between that and your previous posts.

Blogger Rabid Ratel June 24, 2018 3:16 PM  

OGRE wrote:Somebody's trying to get a post directed at himself in the main blog.

It is so nice of these volunteers to offer their scalps and skulls to the ELoE, to be prepared for the SDL. Truly, the time of the sea of skulls is approaching ever more rapidly.

Blogger Matthew June 24, 2018 3:29 PM  

Okay, I get it now. Cogniblog is a soft rightist, but is afraid of being called a racist.

Toughen up, sugartits.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel June 24, 2018 4:21 PM  

Yes, being a proponent of affirmative action makes you a communist.

Blogger Lance E June 24, 2018 4:21 PM  

Cogniblog wrote:By the way, in real life, there is no "lawful evil" and there is no "chaotic good". The forces of chaos are evil, and the forces of order are righteous.

Everyone believes that Joseph Stalin was an extremely lawful ruler. Homicide was practically nonexistent! Would you say that because he was not good, therefore he was really "secretly chaotic"? You could, but it would sound extremely stupid.


Swing and a miss.

Not that I'm dumb enough to fall for argumentum ad populum to begin with, but one of the problems with the "everyone" pronoun is that it only takes one counterexample for you to be wrong. I don't believe your proposition, therefore, you are wrong.

Stalin himself was, like any dictator, above the law. His regime was characterized by constant public disorder as well as constant security threats, both internal and external. That is precisely the reason his crackdowns were so savage. It's hard to imagine any living conditions more chaotic than Stalinism, either inside or outside the Party, which you'd know if you'd bothered to do the slightest bit of research.

I'm not surprised that you would confuse law with power; it's a common trope of leftists.

And everyone knows Rahab was working for justice even though she broke the laws against treason of her nation and told a lie. Would you say that she was evil because she was unlawful? You could, but you would sound extremely stupid.

Oh yes indeed, "justice", that wonderful get-out-of-jail-free card that for leftists always trumps law and authority. Biblical studies are our host's area of expertise, not mine, but by your choice of words alone I can sense the leftism oozing from every pore.

And do you really think there's no difference whatsoever between Marcus Aurelius and Friend Computer? They're both lawful, therefore it must be the case that both are equally good or Friend Computer was secretly a free-spirited rebel because he was evil?

Why yes, I do believe there's a difference between a real historical figure and a fictional plot device used in an obscure tabletop RPG.

Blogger Sam June 24, 2018 4:40 PM  

@21
Populism and nationalism are left wing positions; they are currently counted among the right because of how insanely far left our society has gone.

@52
It depends on the definition you use. They were of the right in 1930s Germany, but they would have been considered left wing in the 19th century.

@78
The Soviet Union was not lawful.
Stalin Constitution
" ARTICLE 125. In conformity with the interests of the working people, and in order to strengthen the socialist system, the citizens of the U.S.S.R. are guaranteed by law:

freedom of speech;
freedom of the press;
freedom of assembly, including the holding of mass meetings;
reedom of street processions and demonstrations.

These civil rights are ensured by placing at the disposal of the working people and their organizations printing presses, stocks of paper, public buildings, the streets, communications facilities and other material requisites for the exercise of these rights.

ARTICLE 127. Citizens of the U.S.S.R. are guaranteed inviolability of the person. No person may be placed under arrest except by decision of a court or with the sanction of a procurator.

ARTICLE 128. The inviolability of the homes of citizens and privacy of correspondence are protected by law. "

The Stalin Constitution was passed in 1936, during the Great Terror. The USSR was telling people they had freedom of speech while shooting people for unacceptable speech. It is like how a Netflix producer who was fired for saying the n word (don't know which of the two) ... when explaining to people what words not to say.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 4:44 PM  

Where does this obsession with Nazis being right wing come from? It's amazing. Sam, Nazis weren't of the right in 1930's Germany. There was no right wing in 1930's Germany. Hitler declared Nazis and Communists to be first cousins. Communists were to allowed instant membership in NSDAP because of it, again from Hitler's own mouth. A big difference in National Socialism vs Communism is nationalism vs internationalism. Not much difference otherwise.

Blogger Blastman June 24, 2018 4:54 PM  

Cogniblog … … A socialist is someone who advocates for the public ownership of the means of production. In which one of his videos or writings or interviews did he do that? I would say that you are lying but it's clear that you have not a single iota of a clue of what "public ownership of the means of production" even is, …"

A state under the control of a socialist party doesn't have to actually own the means of production to control the means of production and use it for their ideological ends. The ownership title to a business and capital may be in private hands, but if the people running the company are party members (think socialism in Germany and Italy in the early-mid 20th century) then the socialist state can still use the means of production for and to further their ends. Essentially, a kind of socialism lite -- but it's still socialism.

The state owning the means of production therefore is not essential to socialism if the means of production are co-opted by political bent people running a nations companies and the state imposing heavy taxes on company profits, and using those taxes/resources for the state ends. Close to the same socialist result without the state actually owning the means of production outright.

One of the problems for the socialists in the Christian West in the early 1900's is that it still had a fairly strong Christian population and leadership that was condemning socialism. The socialists couldn't go around confiscating farms and businesses without a strong revolt from the population because of a strong history of property rights. Well, short of an outright bloody purge and ruling the population at gunpoint like Russia. So, the socialists had to do things partway -- socialism lite -- boil the frog slowly so to speak. JP can still be socialist in his political outlook and philosophy without advocating the state own all means of production.

In the US, the political left is in control and runs most major corporations. They can/will use these corporations to further much of the lefts political agenda. That corporate diversity training seminar you are required to attend -- that's just the socialist left's re-education camp.

Blogger S'mon June 24, 2018 5:16 PM  

There are plenty of centre-left classical liberals of course - Jewish ones like Pinker & Haidt are common as public intellectuals.

Blogger Meimou June 24, 2018 5:51 PM  

@Cogniblog

Reasonable leftist are not centrist, they are non authoritan. The leftist we associate with doxxing, violence, and SJWs are in the left authoritan part of the ideological grid. Jimmy Door, Abby Martian and Sargon are reasonable leftist because they are non authoritan - they value freedom to a decree, but they are clearly in the left.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 5:59 PM  

@5- Yeahbutt we shouldn't have been allied with the Soviets. And the reason we were as close with them as we were wasn't because we needed them to beat the Nazis, strictly speaking. Our government was also full of commies who earnestly wanted to be their friends.

I might have thought the frickin' Cold War would put a damper on people using WWII alliance with evil analogy to justify ANYTHING.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 6:05 PM  

@21- Need more information. You could be against those things for any number of reasons.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 6:12 PM  

@39- Unless we were to start a scheme to infiltrate such organizations as the U.N. But I'd rather lay waste to them.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 6:28 PM  

@61- Oh, but they do matter. The globalist/nationalist divide is a right/left thing, like nearly everything else. If you work it out right.

In the old sense, Nazis were considered to be of the right because they were nationalists. The extreme left-wing were One-World communists. Stalin became something of a nationalist, though he actually defended the interests of a multiethnic empire. It's hard to say how much he retained belief in the international communist conspiracy, though he was a conqueror and pursued the cause abroad aggressively.

His major opponents on the left were out-and-out leftist globalists, such as the Trotskyites. Who views him as a Thermidorian traitor to the cause.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 6:41 PM  

@78- "Homicide was practically nonexistent"

Only if you exclude the TENS OF MILLIONS who died unnaturally, murdered by the state or otherwise.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf June 24, 2018 7:12 PM  

I wish we could see what the world would have looked like had we (the USA) not partcipated in WWII. I'd be particularly interested to see what the USA would look like minus accepting so many refugees from Europe. Then again, look at what the English have become. So, one never knows.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf June 24, 2018 7:20 PM  

Compliance and empathy appear to be necessary towards maintaining Japanese social norms and culture. Don't clean your share of the mess and see how the class empathizes with you 😆

Interestingly development of these attitudes go hand in gloves with Nationism. I'm not so sure Americans would or can give in to a Nationa identity when we're such individualists. Or so it seems.

Maybe ours is a path through blood… by nature?

Blogger Lance E June 24, 2018 7:39 PM  

Meimou wrote:Reasonable leftist are not centrist, they are non authoritan. The leftist we associate with doxxing, violence, and SJWs are in the left authoritan part of the ideological grid.

Since leftism is little more than raw, unfiltered will to power and the process of obtaining it by any means necessary, it's meaningless to discuss leftism in terms of "authoritarian" vs. "non-authoritarian".

When there is a legitimate, strong, secure authority, leftism is anti-authority. When the left itself is in power, it is pro-authority. This is no different from how leftism is rabidly anti-corporate when the corporations are behaving rationally, but rabidly pro-corporate when the corporations act as their ideological gatekeepers. Leftism is whatever it needs to be in order to advance its own interests.

Classical liberals in the 21st century are simply leftists who couldn't carve out a niche in the Party, who feel abandoned and disempowered by their own movement. Why do you think they were on board with every single left-wing idea and program, right up until the point where it started affecting their job prospects, freedom of speech and vidya? Take away the cannibalistic SJWs, and every "reasonable leftist" would immediately go back to grabbing guns, pushing affirmative action, expanding immigration, hating Christians, hating the rich, and nationalizing or regulating every business down to the last lemonade stand.

The only "reasonable leftist" is one who has permanently converted to the right, and that is a very long journey which many can't complete.

Blogger Robert June 24, 2018 8:44 PM  

Interesting development: JP is showing up this fall at a conference of Objectivists (OCON). One just hopes they don't allow the streams to cross!

Blogger Cecil Henry June 24, 2018 8:56 PM  

People are waking up:

Here is a very telling comment about JBP in this video:

Jordan Peterson on 'European Pride' and White Nationalism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5gIrlh8HSU



'I cannot believe Dr. Jordan Peterson is not an absolute defender of European culture & thus European people (& history). He only argued against Duchesne based on the use of one word, “pride”—which I can actually agree with to a degree—but he did not address Duchesne's total argument at all.

Also, Jordan's use of “We” & “Our” is becoming really puzzling; individuals don't live in a vacuum.'


'Funny how a guy who brands himself a crusader against SJWs just went off an a tailor-made leftist style critique of white nationalism and white identity just to prove how "not racist" he really is. Cuck.'

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2018 9:24 PM  

> I wish we could see what the world would have looked like had we (the USA) not partcipated in WWII.

An interesting alternative history could be written in which the CSA was able to hold off the union troops, the USA as such did not exist and therefore did not enter WWI, and WWII never happened.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( "an entirely disconnected spew of word vomit" ) June 24, 2018 9:49 PM  

109. Meng Greenleaf June 24, 2018 7:12 PM
I wish we could see what the world would have looked like had we (the USA) not partcipated in WWII.


even better, Wilson should have been hung for Treason for his participation in the Lusitania False Flag.

then there would have never been a Hitler to concern ourselves about in 1942.

and there was also no need for the US to enter WW2 formally at all.

remember, everything about WW2, all the possible what-ifs, all the alternate histories, vaporize on 6 August 1945.

the Manhattan Project was initiated in 1939 and was already well advanced by the time the Japanese bombed Pearl. certainly, there was additional urgency after the attack, but FDR had always intended to get us into the war.

we could have easily sat back behind the oceans and played defense until we had Fat Man and Little Boy ready.

and then the war ends, regardless of whatever other expenditures the US did OR DID NOT make.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 24, 2018 10:48 PM  

I can't even. The levels of stupid in this thread. Keep doing God's work, all you other guys, I'm sure there's a place for a skull labelled "Incogniblog", somewhere under "miscellaneous TRPG-taught philo-soph-ers".

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2018 11:38 PM  

@114- I've actually heard neocons make the argument: "If the South had won, we wouldn't have been able to fight WWII." Like it's supposed to be an argument AGAINST splitting up the U.S.

These were people smart enough to know the Nazis weren't going to come over here and conquer us. (Japs aren't even part of the conversation.) They're thinking on terms of not being able to join in at the beginning of the post-45 New World Order. And being able to save some of their relatives, I suppose.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2018 11:53 PM  

But but MUH MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit June 25, 2018 1:14 AM  

I came to see the temptation in this logic, the obvious flaw, the danger—but could also see that it did not exclusively characterize socialism. Anyone who was out to change the world by changing others was to be regarded with suspicion

If this is representative, then Mr. Peterson is *here* rejecting socialism *and* any ideology that is similarly based on envy and resentment. Moreover, as the quoted passage indicates, merely having good intentions doesn't make the bad ideology (i.e. socialism) virtuous.

The conclusion*: Jordon Peterson was a socialist and a man of the Left. God granted him visions of Hell which have spurred him to seek the truth, but the fellow's intellectual tools are sub par. Where he will end up is as yet unknown.

Don't follow the man, but do pray for him.


*Based only on Vox Day's posts of Mr. Peterson's own words

Blogger Roth June 25, 2018 6:10 AM  

Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin, etc. that's the flavor of millennial conservatism. Conservatism shifted to what they call "classical liberalism". If you look at the crowd that Peterson attracts it is young Republicans.

Blogger Didact June 25, 2018 9:15 AM  

Er... Vox, with respect to the last Meme Wars picture, wasn't it Cato the Elder who ended every speech of his in the Senate with a long-form version of "Carthago Delenda Est"?

I'm all for pillorying Jordanetics. No arguments from me whatsoever there. But let's not confuse Cato with Cicero when making fun of the man.

Blogger Ceerilan June 25, 2018 1:55 PM  

I think there is a peculiar tendency among some ostensibly on the right to define some leftists as being on the right. This practice comes from the mistaken notion that all enemies of your enemies are your friends. Contrasting this to the communists/sjw view that allies are merely enemies to be dealt with later by elimination/subjugation will show you how the right was just as responsible for communist-induced demoralization as the left.

Ever since the 1950's, the right has thus made itself into a leftism-light that continuously sacrificed it's principles. Part of that was reading leftist allies into the movement without requiring conversion. Whether through a desire to appear mainstream or philosophical ignorance, the result was the same...abdication of all moral authority.

Blogger Were-Puppy June 25, 2018 2:01 PM  

Today for lunch, a choice of PBJs and Corndogs

Blogger Sam June 25, 2018 4:01 PM  

@100
The Nazi party allied with the DNVP in the Reichstag; that was how they managed to get a majority. The DNVP (German National People's party) were reactionary monarchists, populists and pan-nationalists. The Nazis were of the political right because they sided with the political right in order to fight the left- that is what political factions are.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2018 4:30 PM  

Sam wrote:The Nazis were of the political right because they sided with the political right in order to fight the left- that is what political factions are.
So, is Lega Nord of the Left, or 5 Stella of the Right. I'd love to hear your explanation of this, once you figure it out, Mr Reductionist Genius.

And when Pat Buchannan ran on a ticket with Lenora Fulani, did that make him a Leftist, or was Fulani a Fascist?


Or maybe you're just a simplistic binary thinker with no understanding of how political parties, political capital, influence, alliances and looting work. That would also explain the amazing, gut-wrenching level of absurd stupidity displayed in your comment.

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