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Thursday, June 07, 2018

Losing the next war

Don't be surprised if the first naval battle of the 21st century goes unexpectedly poorly for the US Navy:
A three-month internal review conducted by senior U.S. surface fleet leaders found some or significant concerns with the ship handling skills of nearly 85 percent of its junior officers, and that many struggled to react decisively to extricate their ship from danger when there was an immediate risk of collision, according to an internal message obtained by Defense News.

Led by the Surface Warfare Officer School, officer of the deck competency checks were conducted on a random selection of OOD-qualified first-tour division officers (the newest officers in the fleet) in underway bridge navigation simulators fleet-wide between January and March. Of the 164 officers who were evaluated, only 27 passed with “no concerns.” Another 108 completed with “some concerns,” and 29 had “significant concerns,” according to the message, which was released by the Navy’s top surface warfare officer Vice Adm. Richard Brown.

Brown, who leads Naval Surface Force Pacific, termed the results “sobering.”

The evaluations raise distressing questions about the level of ship handling training junior officers get both prior to their arrival at their first command and when they arrive. In a Tuesday interview with Defense News at the Pentagon, Brown said the checks would be used to inform new training in development for young officers and that changes were already underway that show the Navy is serious about self-assessment and improvement in the wake of the twin disasters that claimed the lives of 17 sailors last summer.

Among the shortfalls identified in the checks:
  • Officers struggled with operating radars and the associated tools at hand, an issue that emerged in the wake of the Fitzgerald accident.
  • Officers had a firm grasp of the international rules of the road for navigating ships at sea, but struggled to apply them practically during watch standing, especially in low-visibility situations.
  • Most officers were able to keep clear of close encounters with other ships in the simulator but those that found themselves in extremis “were often ill-equipped to take immediate action to avoid collisions”
The big advantage of the US Navy in the past - the fact that it was comprised of relatively intelligent American men - no longer exists. The Chinese Navy hasn't caught up technologically yet, but it already possesses a considerably more intelligent officer corps that will likely prove to be more competent as well.

The US was defeated in the Syrian war-by-proxy by a much smaller, much less well-equipped Russian force, in much the same way the IDF was defeated by Hezbollah in 2006. It is very unlikely that this defeat passed unnoticed by military strategists around the world, or that it will be the last one suffered by the US military.

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115 Comments:

Blogger McChuck June 07, 2018 8:23 AM  

This is what happens when you throw away experience and common sense, hands-on training, and replace it with cheap, computer based training. All the "diversity" hires don't help any, either. Especially in the senior leadership, who set the standards.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 07, 2018 8:24 AM  

The big advantage of the US Navy in the past - the fact that it was comprised of relatively intelligent American men - no longer exists.

Intelligent, American, Men. Too many officers are none of those three things. All of them have been selected, in part, for not noticing reality. That can't help their ability to react to real world events.

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 8:24 AM  

Our military is overextended and no longer well trained. Their battle experience of the line troops should be excellent at this point, but the leadership hasn't kept pace and is still stuck fighting the last war.

Meantime, our opposition is also battle trained and is continually expanding and refining their tactics and strategies. It's a recipe for disaster in the making.

Blogger L' Aristokrato June 07, 2018 8:26 AM  

"The big advantage of the US Navy in the past - the fact that it was comprised of relatively intelligent American men - no longer exists."

Even if somehow it still was, what would these Americans, be in the fight for? Safeguarding the wonders of diversity?

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 8:28 AM  

On my comment above, I should note that while I have worked for the DOD, I have no military experience. I know there's a significant percentage of readers who will therefore immediately reject my comment out of hand.

Blogger Johnny June 07, 2018 8:38 AM  

Whether or not we are overextended depends on what the mission is. In any one theater we are still the force to be reckoned with. Globally, harder to say.

Blogger Ledford Ledford June 07, 2018 8:38 AM  

It's a good thing we have nukes. Hope we never have to find out if they still work.

Blogger Dexter June 07, 2018 8:43 AM  

Retired Navy guy told me that the saying among merchant sailors now is "Haze grey, get out of the way" (haze grey = US Navy).

Blogger Wynn Lloyd June 07, 2018 8:44 AM  

That shouldn't be the case.
The military is the same as everything else. You have your good ones and bad ones, your intelligent ones and your dullards, though it looks like the dullards are gaining a solid majority with this article. The army has been like that for a while. Now the navy is catching up.
Military service is not a golden ticket to being a good person or credible thinker. The reason that out culture pushes that idea is so that youngsters will continue to sign up, thinking that the occasional free lunch at Applebee's is worth all the suffering.

Blogger Dexter June 07, 2018 8:46 AM  

The big advantage of the US Navy in the past - the fact that it was comprised of relatively intelligent American men - no longer exists.

Oh yeah? Well the US admiral commanding in the Med now is a Negress, so checkmate racist!

http://www.c6f.navy.mil/organization/leaders/adm-michelle-howard

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 07, 2018 8:50 AM  

Well since we don't have full MAGA victory yet, and the left has not been crushed into oblivion such they would never plague us again, then this is still a Navy that we may someday have to run guns and war supplies past, so the worse it is, the better our chances if we have to fight them ourselves.
It's like, say, going up against an Army of tannins and dindus.

Blogger kennymac June 07, 2018 8:55 AM  

Wonder how many of those 29 with “serious concerns” are women, or diversity hires.

Blogger S'mon June 07, 2018 8:56 AM  

Diversity means you end up with Third World quality personnel running First World systems. It's a recipe for disaster.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 07, 2018 9:07 AM  

Conservatives seek synthesis and because they still can vote themselves a little influence they are allowed their military fantasy in which they never leave the mindset of 1945 with the military as Superman.

If the trend continues in the near future a California style electorate will give us the military we asked for much like the Cannibal Army in "Lucifer's Hammer."

I still will tell a young white man to go into the military mainly to avoid drugs and to get the white man's affirmative action point of service credit. Which is my tribe's get out of the caste basement card.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 07, 2018 9:08 AM  

One of the biggest institutional problems the Navy has is, is that it's lost basic seamanship.

Honestly, US Naval cadets should be forced to spend one semester at sea with the Coast Guard.

Or better yet spend one an actual sailing barque like the USCG Eagle.

Admittedly, half of the cadets would drown but we are talking national security here.

Blogger VoodooJock June 07, 2018 9:08 AM  

Those men of days past were also thoroughly trained and not turned loose until they demonstrated proficiency.

The combination of poor intelligence and woefully inadequate training means the situation is far more dire than these people admit, and likely know.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 07, 2018 9:15 AM  

SNAFU is ruminating on the Marine IOC being slowly destroyed, slowly at first, suddenly all at once.

When I was in the Marines the officers could PT like a mofo, physical stamina leads to mental and emotional stamina. Not a combat vet but from my time carrying the PRC-77 for company commander at times I did get a taste of what is needed to command as a witness to it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 07, 2018 9:17 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:One of the biggest institutional problems the Navy has is, is that it's lost basic seamanship.

Honestly, US Naval cadets should be forced to spend one semester at sea with the Coast Guard.

Or better yet spend one an actual sailing barque like the USCG Eagle.

Admittedly, half of the cadets would drown but we are talking national security here.


There is also the problem of, "who would build the ship?"

The USCG Eagle was original named the "Horst Wessel".

Blogger bobby June 07, 2018 9:17 AM  

But they can all identify a microaggression at 2000 yards.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 07, 2018 9:18 AM  

I don't know what to say. You would think simply the cost and difficulty of building navy ships would preclude putting them in the hands of diversity hires.

When diversity is valued more than competence much less excellence, you get what we have now. Our biggest most valuable assets are being turned over to, 'Make-a-Wish' foundation kids who really, really want to drive a big boat.

Do I root for the asteroid or the Yugoslavia style break up?

Blogger Amy June 07, 2018 9:18 AM  

Mr. A. was a sonar tech on a frigate, in the early 90s. He’s a tradesman now, worked with engineers then, works with engineers now, and is still perplexed by the lack of sense.

Not everything can be reduced to an equation, and not every equation is equal to on the ground realities, but so many people go by the book, which is equivalent to doing bare minimum.

A coal fired engine in an overlong tunnel, indeed. But no one is responsible!

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 07, 2018 9:21 AM  

You can train a moron all you like - they’re still dangerously incompetent.

But every navy man reading that report knows full well that “level of training” is political code for “idiots”.

Blogger Bobiojimbo June 07, 2018 9:37 AM  

An advantage those smaller, national fleets have is that they're constantly working in their sole AOO - their national, coastal waters.

Many of you are complaining about diversity. To the Navy (at least 5 years ago), diversity is a strength. They see diversity as a way to thinking outside the box.

Blogger pyrrhus June 07, 2018 9:45 AM  

The purpose of the Navy is to give commands to Annapolis grads...That has turned out to be a very dangerous idea, thanks to diversity. It will get worse...But if the Navy gets into a war with Russia or China, most of its ships will be destroyed anyway...

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 9:53 AM  

@5

"On my comment above, I should note that while I have worked for the DOD, I have no military experience. I know there's a significant percentage of readers who will therefore immediately reject my comment out of hand."

I've been in since 1989.

You're right on target.

Blogger Timmy3 June 07, 2018 9:55 AM  

Military is run by lawyers and politicians, not warriors.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 07, 2018 9:56 AM  

Go to a non-white person, country or institution and insist on "diversity." Might as well tell them their momma wears combat boots gifted to her for services rendered.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 07, 2018 9:57 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:There is also the problem of, "who would build the ship?"
These guys:
http://www.historicalseaport.org/ships/lady-washington/

Blogger Pioneer Spirit June 07, 2018 10:00 AM  

Admiral Rickover tumbles in the grave....

Blogger JohnofAustria June 07, 2018 10:05 AM  

The Navy is also the most demographically diverse branch, in news that won't surprise Vox.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:05 AM  

@28

Seems like they got everything good, except whoever carved and painted that hideous figurehead.

Blogger Phillip George June 07, 2018 10:10 AM  

ships with high boron content steel?

Vox, isn't the front now unmanned nuclear submarine tech with cavitation speeds?

The next tsunami is as fake as f__king Fukushima?

Was Boxing Day a Natural or man made?

Blogger Unknown June 07, 2018 10:12 AM  

The Navy has been operating in an over extended condition for a very long time (thanks Bill Clinton), and certain things have been eliminated in the interest of reducing reduce cost and saving time. OOD used to be a discrete class that junior officers went to, but years ago the Navy decided that a correspondence course on DVDs and OJT can adequately do the job, rather than a formal school.

We see the results.

Naval committments have largely remained the same since the end of the cold war, but now we have a third of the ships (and personnel) to do them. It says a lot, to me, that the level of competence built up during the last decade of the cold war has allowed things to coast along as long as they have, but now, all of the services are roughly in the same place they were after the end of the Vietnam war. Worn out gear, demoralized troops, and piss poor leadership.

I retired in 2014, and I'm glad I retired when I did, thing were geting bad there at the end, but from reading /r/Navy, things have only gotten worse after I left.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 10:14 AM  

@32

US Navy is also burdened by two things --

1) failing to make recruiting goals leading to ships going to sea significantly (20% or more) shorthanded

which leads to

2) heavy recruiting for USN enlisted in foreign ports -- 6 year hitch, all sea duty in exchange for an endorsement for green card application.

Fortunately, this is safer than recruiting foreigners for your army. A foreign sailor can't say "fuck this -- these aren't my people" in the middle of a fight -- his life depends on his ship making it out of the fight, and therefore, NOT abandoning his battle station. The problem is still, the Navy is the most high-tech of all the services -- and 3rd world seamen operating 1st world equipment is not a prescription for success. You need EXTREMELY diligent NCOs to ride their subordinates to make sure the equipment is properly maintained and calibrated. And I doubt that the Navy is getting the most ambitious Americans to be raw material for future NCOs.

Congress needs to give the Navy a ton of money for recruiting incentive bonuses.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 07, 2018 10:14 AM  

The shock will be akin to the time Alaric brought the Visigoths to holiday in Rome. On the bright side, we got a good book out of it, by St. Augustine.

Blogger Harambe June 07, 2018 10:18 AM  

The US is Mike Tyson, their enemies are Floyd Mayweather.

Blogger Harambe June 07, 2018 10:19 AM  

Silly question: if the US declares war on, say, Libya and they lose, does that mean millions of American refugees will flood to Africa?

Blogger Lazarus June 07, 2018 10:30 AM  

For what its worth, I asked a friend in the Canadian Navy about the recent collisions. He said it was probably the lack of training in the early stages. He also said it was a lot harder to move up through the ranks in the Canadian Navy, with more training required.

Blogger Wild Ape June 07, 2018 10:45 AM  

The US Navy will have its ass handed to them. The McCain was steaming without lookouts and relying on radars for crying out loud. The Guardian ran aground and SANK. Retired Chiefs are saying that there are fewer and fewer Chiefs now because liberals have watered them down. The officer core is a joke now. Annapolis is converged. It is going to get real ugly in the next war. We are rapidly losing our edge.

Blogger bobby June 07, 2018 10:48 AM  

"To the Navy (at least 5 years ago), diversity is a strength. They see diversity as a way to thinking outside the box."

Similarly, training one-legged men to run marathons is thinking outside of the box.

Sometimes the box is there for a reason.

Blogger Jonathan June 07, 2018 10:49 AM  

Aren't we discounting the advantage our diversity gives us? It is our most valuable asset, I'm told.

Blogger Wild Ape June 07, 2018 10:57 AM  

@33 Yep. I saw the same thing. The surface line officers no longer want to earn their way, they want to take a correspondence course thinking that it can make up for the experience.

@34 Dirk Manly-----Yep. Spot on assessment. Before I got out the Navy actually had a recruiting program----to get prisoners from prison. They also open doors to non citizens at the expense of citizens. One guy can do a lot of damage on a ship. The last few command climate surveys from the Pacific fleet have been horror shows that the navy shrugged off. I can't imagine the climate of trying to hold that all together with 3rd world technicians, burned out sailors, gender pronouns, prison ship environments, and excessive incompetence. "Oh, and kid, let me tell you why you want to stay in and make this all a career....."


The Navy needs a mast to keel purge.

Blogger Stephen Davenport June 07, 2018 11:09 AM  

Umm, now you are making shit up, its news to me that "we lost" to the Russians in Syrian. Really where? The Russians only fought with the Americans in one battle that I am aware of and the Russians got their ass kicked. The Israelis and the US bomb at will against their allies, so where is this mythical Russian victory you insist on propagating. Now if you meant they won politically, I would give you a thumbs up, in regards to military action, you are full of shit, like you always are in regards to Russian and Chinese military prowess.

Blogger eyeslevel June 07, 2018 11:17 AM  

Thank's for spelling losing correctly.
Lose rhymes with booze opposite of win.
Loose rhymes with moose opposite of tight.

Blogger Bob June 07, 2018 11:20 AM  

@10:

"Oh yeah? Well the US admiral commanding in the Med now is a Negress, so checkmate racist!"

What further proof do we need?

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 11:23 AM  

> You're right on target.

Thanks. It's nice to hear from someone closer to the situation. It would be even nicer to be wrong, of course.

> ... its news to me that "we lost" to the Russians in Syrian.

Whose military is in control on the ground in Syria again? It's probably also news to you that the sun rose this morning.

> The Russians only fought with the Americans in one battle that I am aware of and the Russians got their ass kicked.

There's a reason Vox used the phrase "war-by-proxy".

Blogger eyeslevel June 07, 2018 11:37 AM  

China depends on the US to police the world's shipping lanes. They would be dead in the water without the trade facilitated by the US Navy.

Blogger Unknown June 07, 2018 11:44 AM  

@47

See my earlier comment on the USN being over extended.

7th Fleet is particular has been run hard, with no break, for a long time. McCain was out of 7th Fleet, incidentally.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction June 07, 2018 11:45 AM  

@47
I don't agree with Vox's synopsis on Chinese officer corp competence at this time but your statement completely and utterly ignores that China is actively trying to build a blue water navy.

Blogger justaguy June 07, 2018 11:55 AM  

As a shipdriver for a career, I can tell you that the sea forces realities upon ships, as has become apparent with the Pacific Fleet. While diversity may have affected the entire Navy, the capital ships of the Navy (submarines) are still run by basically top engineers. To get into submarines requires at least 4 semesters of calculus and a very thorough examination through interviews. The 12 months of schooling uses differential equations to understand the basics of reactor safety, so one can’t “just get by” and be an officer in the sub force. There is a quote by Admiral Rickover on the walls of the officer nuclear power school that I absolutely hated: “Here even the smartest work as hard as those who struggle to pass” And yes the systems they put into place, the robust competition makes everyone work. I was the top graduate in my group of a couple hundred after the 2 phase, 12 months, and yes I routinely worked much more than 70 hour weeks as did the rest of the top students. For the MIT grads, top USNA engineers etc. of us there, all of us worked hard to learn—something we took into our careers and never stopped

To get beyond the first tour as an officer on a submarine requires the equivalent of a PE exam in nuclear engineering given by Naval Reactors over several days. A grueling examination consisting of traditional examinations and in depth technical questioning one on one by experienced engineers. I don’t know if they still flunk 40% or so, but Naval Reactor is headed by a 4 star just to help maintain the standards against PC and other isms. So yes submarines still maintains pretty high standards.

Additionally, The Carriers and big amphibs are run by pilots, who although they may not know much about ship-driving-- they have to have been top pilots or top NFOs to get the gig. Aircraft crash easily enough with what Navy pilots put their planes through, so those who are not up to snuff do not make it for long. The CO of a CVN has been XO and CO of another big ship (typically an amphib) and then XO of a CVN, all interspersed with courses at Naval Reactors. So yes, I am pretty confident that our pilots maintain standards as do our CVNs and big ships—the process weeds out the inept with extreme prejudice.

The entire Navy can be distracted by esoterics like diversity, but the sea is a bitch and will catch up with you eventually, especially at many hundreds of feet down under the water, and possibly with a hundred or so of feet of ice above. So the incompetent do not make it. Think about some new pilot, in airspace where some country might occasionally turn on the targeting fire control radar, maybe approach with another aircraft that may or may not be hostile. —and that is what many Navy airdales face in their first tour. Typically the weak do not last as a line officer in the Navy.

So, yes the little ships may have a temporary problem with the basics-- but at least the realities of the sea have forced the Navy to at least look at the problem and likely take action. The rest of the Navy is still ready to take up the slack—launching aircraft, hunting other ships etc.

Navy ships realize that they may be toe to toe with the Chinese Navy in some freedom of the sea operation in the South China Sea—things like that drive the CO’s to ensure their crew is trained—give it a little time with a CINC who cares about effectiveness and is used to saying “you are fired” and the Navy will spring back. It doesn’t take a top engineer (subs) or person with lightening quick reflexes who can think several steps ahead in less than a second (pilot) to run a surface ship—it just takes some leadership and standards—Something the fleet has plenty of, regardless of who is there on watch at midnight when the rest of the ship is asleep. This doesn’t appear to be a fatal problem. I merely shows that the leadership form the top does matter.

Blogger papabear June 07, 2018 12:27 PM  

The USS Fitzgerald OOD involved in one of those collision accidents and was recently found guilty is a woman.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 12:40 PM  

Umm, now you are making shit up, its news to me that "we lost" to the Russians in Syrian.

First, Gamma tell.

Second, the stated objective of the US military action in Syria was to remove Bashar al-Assad from power. The stated objective of the Russian military action there was to keep Bashar al-Assad in power.

Now, who is currently in power in Syria?

Russia won.

Blogger kurt9 June 07, 2018 1:05 PM  

The recent naval ship collisions do not inspire confidence. They make clear a lack of basic seamanship on the part of those running the ships. What has been less covered by the media is that there have been a fair number of aviation mishaps on the part of the Air Force. I believe that the Air Force grounded all flights for a period in order to put all of their pilots and maintenance crews through some additional training in an effort to resolve the problems.

Something that has always stuck out in my mind about the iraq invasion of '03 was that the bulk of the fighting was done by the Marine Corp, and amphibious force, with the Army performing more of a support role. I cannot help but think that the Army may no longer be capable of the sustained combat that is necessary to invade and occupy a country, thus necessitating use of the Marine Corp.

The problem is that the neo-cons and other war hawk factions in Washington DC may get us into a war resulting in us having our heads handed back to us. I really thought this was going to happen with the Russians if Hillary had been elected. I do not know how she would have personally handled presiding over the worse defeat of American forces since Pearl Harbor. Her frequent outbursts suggest she would not have handled it well.

Blogger Brett baker June 07, 2018 1:26 PM  

One thing I saw on a Navy-oriented site was "How is anyone this junior an OOD

Blogger Brett baker June 07, 2018 1:26 PM  

One thing I saw on a Navy-oriented site was "How is anyone this junior an OOD

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 1:26 PM  

> Her frequent outbursts suggest she would not have handled it well.

I believe the appropriate term might be apoplectic.

Blogger Ken Prescott June 07, 2018 1:39 PM  

The Navy's problems are tied to multiple issues, starting first with the rather idiotic idea that when budget cuts hit, all services must take an equal share of the hit.

America is a strategic aerospace and maritime power. Budget cuts, when needed, should land first and hardest on the Army. But we still have a miniature version of the Cold War Army force structure. And then we get into pointless ground wars because the Army needs to justify their budget.

"If we cannot have the budget estimates of our naval policy, let us have the naval policy of our budget estimates." -- Ambrose Baudry

We're going to look at the past three decades as the years the locusts hath eaten.

Blogger eyeslevel June 07, 2018 1:42 PM  

As America gets browner it will get worse in every measurable category. That's why they're changing the Miss America pageant, for one example, because a brown America is an ugly America. But it's important to keep China in perspective. It would be suicide for China to destroy the US Navy before someone is in a position to replace it as the global shipping cops. Sure, they MIGHT commit suicide but what are the chances?

China has problems. Huge debt, can't feed themselves, massive pollution, desperately short of water.

The most important thing to keep in mind about China is it's full of Chinese people. They don't have much of a tradition of expansionism. They supposedly sent one ship around the world and nothing came of it. They conquered their nearest neighbors but lost them. They built a printing press, printed some playing cards and nothing else came of it. They made ONE mechanical clock, nothing came of it. They invented gunpowder, hardly anything came of it. Whites took these technologies and transformed society and the world.

Orientals have never been able to get beyond a white level of technology or social organization.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 07, 2018 1:45 PM  

If the focus of the Navy (or any other organization) has become diversity, then any objective requirements such as STEM classes and exams WILL yield to the diversity mandate. Standards are only meaningful as long as there is the will to enforce them.

Blogger justaguy June 07, 2018 2:06 PM  

"The sea is a harsh mistress " and that tends to weed out those who have bad standards. Accountability is built into the Navy's DNA because the sea exacts such a toll, especially if playing games with other forces that might be hostile. Whether it be getting hit by a missile, a mine, shooting down an airliner, losing planes with their crew, or not performing basic seamanship and hitting another vessel- not being ready to perform normally costs lives. The basic seamanship skills at issue here are not hard and don't take rocket scientists or nuclear engineers-- they just take a modicum of emphasis, along with great deal of leadership and some training.

Blogger Miguel June 07, 2018 2:12 PM  

Whatever, VD. You know what? Americans have trannies ..and ..and ..diversity!

Beat that, Russians!

Blogger Unknown June 07, 2018 2:19 PM  

@51

She plead guilty, and did not try to weasel out of culpability.

https://www.stripes.com/fitzgerald-officer-of-the-deck-pleads-guilty-at-court-martial-1.525888

Blogger Chris Mallory June 07, 2018 2:23 PM  

If you follow the various "Service Branch" Times websites there has been a surge in ship's captains, unit commanders of Lt Colonel and above, executive officers and senior enlisted men being relived of command/duties during the past six months.
Most of them have been minorities and/or females.

It seems to be most prevalent in the Marines and the Navy.

The Air Force, Navy and Marines have all had aircraft groundings for at least 24 hours.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 07, 2018 2:41 PM  

Relying on the sea to eventually weed out those with low standards is exactly the situation that should be avoided. Because if you take that approach, you won't have a battle ready fleet when you unexpectedly need it.

Blogger Chris Lutz June 07, 2018 2:45 PM  

Unknown wrote:@51

She plead guilty, and did not try to weasel out of culpability.

https://www.stripes.com/fitzgerald-officer-of-the-deck-pleads-guilty-at-court-martial-1.525888


And she got a slap on the wrist. The court martial was a joke. Family member speaking about their loss. The officer breaking down into tears. It was a pathetic group therapy session. But hey, she got a tattoo to remind herself that the crew comes first. It was pathetic.

Blogger Hammerli280 June 07, 2018 2:45 PM  

The good news is that the Navy, unlike a whole lot of other Government agencies, admits it has a problem.

Part of this is overwork, trying to do too many things with too few ships. It doesn't help that Goldwater-Nichols precludes a proper global strategy that could arbitrate between the demands of the theater commanders.

The money situation doesn't help, either. Training costs $$.

Finally, the surface community tends to be the Community of Last Resort...Aviation, Submarines, and Naval Special Warfare all have higher standards of one sort or another. Which means that the surface community gets more than their share of marginal performers.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 07, 2018 2:46 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:Relying on the sea to eventually weed out those with low standards is exactly the situation that should be avoided. Because if you take that approach, you won't have a battle ready fleet when you unexpectedly need it.

The problem with letting the sea weed out the losers is that your fleet will be in dry dock if you're lucky, or at the bottom of the sea.

Blogger DonReynolds June 07, 2018 2:47 PM  

I suppose no nation has more of a great naval tradition than the British Navy. Recently, I found a YouTube movie (for free) by the name of Yangtse Incident, which was an intentionally faithful retelling of the HMS Amethyst affair on the Yangtse River in China in 1949. The civil war with the Communist Chinese was still on-going. Terrific story and great action, involving a half dozen ships of the Royal Navy on a Chinese river. It was a heroic movie but not about victory, unless you call escaping a victory. The Brits got their ass kicked very hard by the Red Chinese, killing a number of British seamen and officers, very nearly losing a light cruiser.

Of course, the US Navy already got it's own black eyes recently. The guided missile destroyer USS Cole was attacked with loss of life and had to be towed back from Yemen. In 1987 an Iraqi jet fired two exocet missiles into the frigate USS Stark, causing even greater loss of life. US Navy patrol boats were forced to surrender to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. No, they did not resist.

Blogger Hammerli280 June 07, 2018 2:52 PM  

WRT the Chinese, I expect them to be a challenging but not impossible opponent. The overall situation is very much like the First World War...and geography is neither Germany nor China's ally. We can set up good interdiction of the Chinese SLOCs in the Indian Ocean. Not fighting the way your opponent wants you to fight is a cornerstone of successful strategy.

Blogger Rikko June 07, 2018 2:58 PM  

Massively off topic but I thought Vox might like to see this.
http://www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/228798/20180530/massive-genetic-study-reveals-90-percent-of-earth-s-animals-appeared-at-the-same-time.htm?__twitter_impression=true

Blogger dvdivx June 07, 2018 3:03 PM  

Root for God going old-school. I want to see what a real angel of destruction can do.

Blogger Michael E June 07, 2018 3:19 PM  

I would not be surprised if the OOD saw the danger, but was waiting for the other ship to do something about it. Like when I am walking through a supermarket and a woman is going to collide with me. They always expect me to move aside. They are obviously expecting the other ship to move aside.

Blogger Frank Lee June 07, 2018 3:19 PM  

Stephen Davenport wrote:Umm, now you are making shit up, its news to me that "we lost" to the Russians in Syrian. Really where? The Russians only fought with the Americans in one battle that I am aware of and the Russians got their ass kicked. The Israelis and the US bomb at will against their allies, so where is this mythical Russian victory you insist on propagating. Now if you meant they won politically, I would give you a thumbs up, in regards to military action, you are full of shit, like you always are in regards to Russian and Chinese military prowess.

Yeah, difficult to see any evidence Russia beat the US military in Syria. Increasingly, it looks like the Russian military is hollowed out and a paper tiger. Iran's influence there has also been pushed back.
Israel pretty much can do anything it wants in Syria now, and I think US actions had something to do with that.

What on earth in Syria you referring to, Vox?


As for the US Navy, well, it's increasingly questionable whether in a full out world war a blue water Navy will be anything but an easy target for hypersonic cruise missiles. Right now, the US Navy is great for showing the flag around the world, and rescue operations, but if the US and China were to go into a full out war? Our carrier groups operating near China could be taken out by Chinese land based missiles faster than the fleet at Pearl Harbor.

If we're really worried about the Chinese Navy, upgrade our submarines, drones and cruise missiles. And really focus on orbital military domination. The big ships are increasingly a liability.

Blogger Brett baker June 07, 2018 3:45 PM  

It sounds like she might be testifying against her higher ups. Apparently, there was a series of official and "unofficial" bad orders given to her.

Blogger Brett baker June 07, 2018 3:47 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 3:47 PM  

Yeah, difficult to see any evidence Russia beat the US military in Syria.

What part of "Assad still rules, ISIS is destroyed" do you find hard to understand.

Israel pretty much can do anything it wants in Syria now, and I think US actions had something to do with that.

Israel can't even fly over Syria now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Blogger Joe Bar June 07, 2018 3:47 PM  

The best and brightest in the Navy are siphoned off by three programs, Nuclear Engineering, Undersea Warfare, and Aviation. The leftovers are relegated to Surface Warfare.

Blogger McJibblits June 07, 2018 4:23 PM  

Ran into a large group of Naval Academy students while at Walter Reed a few months ago. A extremely diverse cohort of soyboys. The future is looking bright.

Blogger Patrick Kelly June 07, 2018 4:43 PM  

"Russians only fought with the Americans in one battle that I am aware of and the Russians got their ass kicked."

No, the US got played by the Russians.

The force that engaged US military were volunteer mercenaries from one of the mostly muslim ex-ussr-istans. They had outlived their usefulness to the Russians and they "accidentally" ordered them into an area of US operations where they were sure to be taken care of.

The Russians tricked the US into taking out the trash for them.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener June 07, 2018 4:57 PM  

"The Russians tricked the US into taking out the trash for them."

Meanwhile the Russians are free to deny this was their intent. It's the perfect outcome for them.

Blogger BCG June 07, 2018 5:05 PM  

I agree that the Syrian intervention was a complete failure for the US. However, I don't think the debacle was a military defeat as much as the inevitable outcome of a profoundly stupid policy. There is no clear reason why it was in the U.S. interest to help some jihadis overthrow Assad. There isn't even a clear reason why our beloved (((allies))) should want to get rid of Assad. How would a chaotic jihadi-dominated region be better for (((them))) than the predictable Assad?

We clearly lost the proxy war, as Vox stated. This isn't so much direct evidence of US military incompetence as the pervasive incompetence of the Swamp on the Potomac. An incompetence that seems to have overtaken certain other (((allies))) as well.

Blogger BCG June 07, 2018 5:18 PM  

eyeslevel wrote:China depends on the US to police the world's shipping lanes. They would be dead in the water without the trade facilitated by the US Navy.

I'm not so sure that's true. The absence of the US Navy would mean that various countries would try to control shipping near their coasts, and pirates would operate more freely. But these are things that can be mitigated either by bribes or by relatively cheap military measures--such as arming merchantmen or building lots of inexpensive escort cruisers.

Balance that against control of the South China Sea--and possibly the East China Sea (to the north, around Japan) as well, and I'd say that knocking out the US Navy would be a big win for the Chinese. Our role as global policeman is precisely what the Chinese don't like--especially in their part of the globe.

Blogger FrankNorman June 07, 2018 5:22 PM  

Officers had a firm grasp of the international rules of the road for navigating ships at sea, but struggled to apply them practically during watch standing, especially in low-visibility situations.

Now I wonder what percentage of those officers were black?
Being able to memorize info, but not able to practically apply it, is a problem I've heard of before in connection with people of that race.

Blogger SirHamster June 07, 2018 5:25 PM  

Noah B The Savage Gardener wrote:"The Russians tricked the US into taking out the trash for them."

Meanwhile the Russians are free to deny this was their intent. It's the perfect outcome for them.


The God-Emperor getting to overkill some Russian troups for diplomatic PR sounds like a win-win to me.

Blogger Steve Samson June 07, 2018 6:31 PM  

First, Gamma tell.

A bit OT, but which is the Gamma tell? Is it the accusatory profanity? I'm trying to get all this down.

Blogger Frank Lee June 07, 2018 6:32 PM  

VD wrote:Yeah, difficult to see any evidence Russia beat the US military in Syria.

What part of "Assad still rules, ISIS is destroyed" do you find hard to understand.

Israel pretty much can do anything it wants in Syria now, and I think US actions had something to do with that.

Israel can't even fly over Syria now. You have no idea what you're talking about.


"Now" opposed to a month ago when it clearly did and hit targets across the entire country?

On May 7, 2018 Israeli fighter jets attacked installations in Syria at Tel Gharba, Tel Kleb, Nabi Yusha and Tel Maqdad as well as a a Quds Force compound in al-Kiswah, and a Iranian Logistics Compound.

And if you don't think Israel also took out a lot of anti-aircraft infrastructure for good measure while they where at it, you're dreaming. Iran threatened all sorts of retaliation, nothing has happened but some rockets that were knocked out by Israel's iron dome.

Israeli can, and probably will, fly into Syria to bomb again whenever it likes.

Trump never made removing Asad a US priority as part of destroying ISIS. ISIS being wiped out is certainly a victory for the US military in terms of Trump's actual goals for Syria.

It's probably more useful for Trump to let Asad sit there and have his power continue to shrink.

Can't see how Asad remaining in control of a small part of Syria dominated by Israel air superiority is a military victory for Russia against the US. If you see it as one, okay.

Trump, thankfully, is not about regime change. He's perfectly fine to let bad guys run shit hole countries. But odds are Asad won't survive as sanctions kick on Iran.

Blogger LSWCHP June 07, 2018 7:28 PM  

I spent time at sea on a US Warship skippered by a black man. During a basic towing exercise he reversed the ship and got the tow rope fouled around the prop and the ship was disabled for about 5 hours. I was gobsmacked at such poor ship handling. I wouldn't be so surprised today.

Blogger James Dixon June 07, 2018 8:35 PM  

> However, I don't think the debacle was a military defeat as much as the inevitable outcome of a profoundly stupid policy.

Strategy versus tactics. Either one can lose you the war.

> There is no clear reason why it was in the U.S. interest to help some jihadis overthrow Assad.

Obama is a Muslim who was trying to help form the caliphate. It's not like this is unknown to anyone who watched him over eight years. It's just not PC to say it.

> Can't see how Asad remaining in control of a small part of Syria dominated by Israel air superiority is a military victory for Russia against the US.

Our stated goal was the ouster of Assad. He's still in power and controls the majority of the country. Whether Israel controls the air in Syria is debatable, but once Syria has installed Russian anti-aircraft weaponry it won't be.

> But odds are Asad won't survive as sanctions kick on Iran.

As long as he has Russian backing he'll be fine.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 8:43 PM  

@57

"America is a strategic aerospace and maritime power. Budget cuts, when needed, should land first and hardest on the Army. But we still have a miniature version of the Cold War Army force structure. And then we get into pointless ground wars because the Army needs to justify their budget."

The Army unilaterally decided to invade Iraq? You're saying that the President and Congress didn't order it?

Are you daft?

Blogger Dirk Manly June 07, 2018 8:52 PM  

@59

"If the focus of the Navy (or any other organization) has become diversity, then any objective requirements such as STEM classes and exams WILL yield to the diversity mandate. Standards are only meaningful as long as there is the will to enforce them."

Absolutely.

I received a first-rate engineering education at Purdue. That being said, in the class which was, at that time EE362 (a first-level micro-computer lab based around a Prompt80 single-board computer (Intel 8080) involving both writing software and designing hardware circuits, and making it all work), my lab partner, Renard, could never figure out he simple tasks from the first lab exercise -- displaying the value stored in a memory location, and entering a new value in that location.

Somehow, he passed that course (magic skin?)

A couple years ago, I did a google search for him -- he was a regional manager for AT&T.

Pretty impressive for a man who can't figure out the concept of storing and displaying values in a memory location.

I got an A in the lab... entirely by myself.

Blogger Sim1776 June 07, 2018 8:57 PM  

Another lesson in reading comprehension is not a universal skill.

Blogger VD June 07, 2018 9:11 PM  

I agree that the Syrian intervention was a complete failure for the US. However, I don't think the debacle was a military defeat as much as the inevitable outcome of a profoundly stupid policy.

You don't understand how war works. It's not about who can claim they won a military victory on a particular battlefield. It's about who accomplishes their strategic objectives. The greatest victories are won without any blood even being shed.

Blogger Sim1776 June 07, 2018 9:36 PM  

@90 Dirk Manly

Telecom management, in my experience, is less about actual knowledge and more about bean-counting and productivity massaging. Chances are good he doesn't even understand what his employees even do beyond a basic level. Another question would be for which division is he a regional manager? There's a vast gulf between Network Operations and Customer Service.

To the topic at hand, I'm not surprised. The military has been a bastion of the Prog agenda since Truman forced unit integration in the late 40s. Hopefully Trump and Mattis can right the ship, literally in this case, before China gets too strong. What happens when the Chinese feel bold and control both the East China Sea and the Panama Canal?

Blogger Jack Amok June 07, 2018 10:45 PM  

Relying on the sea to eventually weed out those with low standards is exactly the situation that should be avoided.

Unfortunately, the idiots running the Navy are as bad at avoiding that situation as the LT(jg)s they have at the helms of their ships are at avoiding a freighter in the fog.

Justaguy waxes rhapsodic about the sea as a harsh mistress and all that, but he seems not to have noticed she has been beating the navy's ships around like Mistress Cruella the Russian Dominatrix beats her best paying customers.

Blogger Jack Amok June 07, 2018 10:48 PM  

Ran into a large group of Naval Academy students while at Walter Reed a few months ago. A extremely diverse cohort of soyboys. The future is looking bright.

We're at least 10 years away from have a functional navy again.

That's the earliest we could expect to have Gen Z at the helm. Of course, we'll have to figure out how to keep Gen-Xers on the bridge well into their 50's.

Blogger justaguy June 07, 2018 11:27 PM  

My point about the sea not waxing blithely but that basically the sea/reality of at sea operations shows problems before they build up and an enemy takes advantage of them. It is hard to hide problems from at sea operations so they do not really build up for years.

Reading the article on the crying female JG who was the OOD, I would note that there were two other, normally more senior positions mentioned for future charges, the Tactical Action Officer-- and the surface coordinator., both who aid the OOD in avoiding contacts.

When I was the Commanding Officer of an attack submarine, although the position names were different than on surface ship, subs routinely used more senior personnel to take overwatch positions on the OOD. Most subs also often stationed a senior enough officer who would take the calls for the CO so he/I could get a few short hours of sleep in order to be alert for the most intense portions of operations.

And yes, the sea (or reality) is currently beating up the pacific fleet surface ships as they seem to deserve...the phrase isn’t dominatrix but that the sea is a bitch. However it looks like the problem is getting the attention it deserves. Whether or not the current problem is a lack of personnel (late 70s and early 80s ships routinely went to sea very short-handed) or $/maintenance or even a running the ships ragged problem. There is no indication that basic shiphandling and following/establishing disciplined routines is beyond the capability of anyone. This is solvable. The real question is how is their tactical proficiency?

Blogger Gospace June 08, 2018 12:03 AM  

USNA and USAFA have forgotten that they are first and foremost trade schools and secondarily colleges. USMMA understands fully it's a trade school and operates as such. USMMA hasn't lost track of it's primary function, but still has more college than job prep. Not sure where USCGA falls in that.

Blogger Gospace June 08, 2018 12:04 AM  

The second USMMA was supposed to be USMA. Stupid autocorrect.

Blogger Bobiojimbo June 08, 2018 12:25 AM  

@bobby "Sometimes the box is there for a reason."

Agreed.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 08, 2018 1:10 AM  

@94

"
Unfortunately, the idiots running the Navy are as bad at avoiding that situation as the LT(jg)s they have at the helms of their ships are at avoiding a freighter in the fog."

Fog?

What fog?

Visability was 10 to 15 miles.

The ship was lit up from stem to stern like a Christmas tree. Since the USN ship was traveling at a faster speed, then initially, the civilian ship was in a position FORWARD of the USN ship, and should have been visible from the bridge. And remained so all the way up until the collision.

This is an absolute COMPLETE lack of awareness.

She violated TWO right of way rules

The vessel of larger tonnage has right of way -- ALWAYS. (Modern large cargo ships are a lot larger than DDG's)

And if the vessels are of approximately the same size, if the other vessel is on YOUR right (starboard) side, then it has the right of way. Her vessel was struck on the starboard side.

Blogger Jack Amok June 08, 2018 2:48 AM  

There is no indication that basic shiphandling and following/establishing disciplined routines is beyond the capability of anyone.

The article Vox quotes disagrees with you, as do the 7 dead bodies taken off the USS Fitzgerald and the 10 taken off the USS McCain. And while the sentiment you are basing your hope on - that the unforgiving sea will force the USN to address problems - is nice, it isn't a given.

Sure, if you or I or anyone with a brain was in charge, it would be, but if that was the case, we probably wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I doubt the two collisions last year were the first indications of problems. I'm pretty sure there were several serious problems that never went public because nobody died.

The real question is how is their tactical proficiency?

Name a navy with poor shiphandling skills that was ever tactically proficient. Besides, the most damning elements of the report on the McCain incident aren't about the shiphandling, but about the failure of the bridge crew to keep their heads when things went wrong. The CO ordered control split between two consoles. The Helmsman screwed up and transferred steering control to the other helm, didn't realize it, and reported loss of steering.

"In the commotion that ensued, the commanding officer and bridge crew lost track of what was going on around them."

What sort of response do you expect from that bridge crew if the problem wasn't "loss of steering" but "inbound missiles"?

Blogger Lance E June 08, 2018 2:49 AM  

The solution is of course to add more female officers, because Science PROVES that group IQ, which is totally a thing, goes up with each woman you add, without any upper limit.

Don't worry guys, once our Navy is 100% female, all of these problems will be solved!

Blogger Jack Amok June 08, 2018 2:50 AM  

Fog?

What fog?


Well, in this case, perhaps it was the fog between someone's ears. That's always the most dangerous kind anyway...

Blogger Paul M June 08, 2018 4:28 AM  

"Officers had a firm grasp of the international rules of the road for navigating ships at sea, but struggled to apply them …"

Which is to say, they are able to parrot the text of the rules and fill in the correct multiple-choice checkbox.

Blogger GithYankee June 08, 2018 7:37 AM  

Imagine Poland, Hungary, Czech-Slovakia, and Italy form a pro-European, Christian bloc in the middle of Europe. They refuse to become tax slaves for unlimited African migrants.
Our leadership in Brussels, Washington, Tel Aviv and Silicon Valley decide these racists must be put in line, using the economic sanctions, ground forces and nuclear bombs they control. This would include all US, UK, French and Israeli forces. Why would I want globalism, inc. forces to be white at all? Why would I want them to be competent?
Russia is building a new Church every week. Europe is converting theirs into mosques. Syrian Christians hold up signs of Assad as a savior. We need to rethink who is "good" and who is "bad" here.

Blogger Ken Prescott June 08, 2018 8:23 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Ken Prescott June 08, 2018 8:34 AM  

@87

"The Army unilaterally decided to invade Iraq? You're saying that the President and Congress didn't order it?"

If you look c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y at the various worthies who sold the idea of invading and occupying Iraq to the President and the Congress, you'll find all kinds of links to such diverse places as the Command & Staff College at Fort Riley, the War College at Carlisle Barracks, and the Association of the United States Army and other "public advocacy" groups that are connected to (or, sometimes, joined at the hip with) the Big Green Machine.

Interestingly enough, you find no one closely tied to the Navy who supported that s***-show. And the only people tied to the Air Force who were fully rah-rah for going after Saddam were the Warthog fanbois.

Blogger justaguy June 08, 2018 11:06 AM  

BTW, the OOD doesn't fight the ship. the TAO does along with the team assembled by the CO. The OOD is a junior position because the relevant information is in the tactical area with the radars and fire controls- not on the bridge. But yes the comment that a weak shiphandling implies weakness in most others things is correct. I hope that the Obama raised Admirals are smart enough to look at that also.

Blogger Jack Amok June 08, 2018 11:43 AM  

I hope that the Obama raised Admirals are smart enough to look at that also.

Unfortunately, I think they have been thoroughly trained not to notice, otherwise they wouldn't have made it in the Obama administration.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 09, 2018 12:08 PM  

@Dirk Manly

You're saying that the President and Congress didn't order it?

PNAC and the dual-citizen authors of "A Clean Break" (by then serving in the W administration) "ordered" the Iraq War, really. With the assistance of the (((media))), the Office of Special Plans, etc.

The 2011 attack on Libya was uniformly opposed by top military leaders... and supported by State/ CIA. Who won that one again?

But muh "military-industrial complex," tho.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 09, 2018 12:17 PM  

Yep. Navy report on the various 2017 collisions. Page 11, bottom half, page 32, top is the basics of the Fitzgerald collision.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/Comprehensive+Review_Final.pdf

Sure, other people made errors. How could the watchstanders possibly be "unaware of multiple contacts within 10 miles of the ship" when those contacts are not only visible on radar, but transmitting on AIS (transponder system that gives ID, course, and speed for a contact)?

But the OOD was clearly deficient in basic seamanship, situational awareness, understanding of the ship's systems, etc. -- and made multiple errors of judgment.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 09, 2018 12:32 PM  

@Jack Amok
The CO ordered control split between two consoles. The Helmsman screwed up and transferred steering control to the other helm, didn't realize it, and reported loss of steering.

They also "un-ganged" the throttles without realizing it -- so that when they tried to slow the ship because of the perceived "loss of steering control," they slowed the port shaft only, worsening the turn to port that led to the eventual collision.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 09, 2018 12:36 PM  

@Paul M

Officers had a firm grasp of the international rules of the road for navigating ships at sea...

But did they have a "firm grasp" of the implications of "constant bearing, decreasing range," though?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 09, 2018 1:58 PM  

@Ken Prescott

If you look c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y at the various worthies who sold the idea of invading and occupying Iraq to the President and the Congress, you'll find...

That c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y has an entirely different meaning in your lexicon than that which it clearly denotes to rational people.

The Iraq War was planned, and sold, by (((neocons))). Its genesis can be traced back to "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," a position paper presented to Bibi in 1996. (And even farther back, to the Yinon Plan and the general concept of Eretz Israel, of course). The Israeli-American dual-citizen authors of "A Clean Break" laid out the argument that Israel should give up on peace talks, and focus on destabilizing and breaking up its neighboring countries, using the American golem where necessary to accomplish this plan.

This idea was supposedly "rejected" by Netanyahu.

A year later, in 1997, PNAC was formed by (((Bill Kristof))) and (((Robert Kagan))) to promote the "Clean Break" strategy; presnting it as good for American national interests. See especially the PNAC report "Rebuilding America's Defenses." Just a cohencidence, of course.

Forward to the W administration, what happened to the (((dual-citizen))) authors of "A Clean Break?"

Richard Perle, lead author:
Chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee and head cheerleader (with Wolfowitz) for the Iraq War.

David Wurmser: Cheney's Mideast advisor/ aide to John Bolton at State (Bolton, granted, is only 1/8 Jewish, but is a rabid neocon nonetheless)

Douglas Feith: co-creator -- with (((Wolfowitz))) -- and head of the Office of Special Plans, created in Sept. 2002, and to generate and disseminate fake "intelligence" to justify the attack on Iraq. Also served as Undersecretary of Defense for Policy.

Also just cohencidences, of course.

In addition to advocating attacks on Iraq, Syria, etc., "A Clean Break" also favored a preemptive strike on Iran. At least we haven't done that... yet.

Straight from the horses mouth, at (((Haaretz))):
https://www.haaretz.com/1.4764706

The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history.

...a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol...

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/whose-war/

In a Feb. 9 front-page article in the Washington Post, Robert Kaiser quotes a senior U.S. official as saying, “The Likudniks are really in charge now.” Kaiser names Perle, Wolfowitz, and Feith as members of a pro-Israel network inside the administration and adds David Wurmser of the Defense Department...

Good thing those Likudniks aren't still in charge of our foreign policy now, eh?

Also recommended:
Deadly Dogma: How Neo-Conservatives Broke the Law to Deceive America (Grant Smith, 2006)
And
Neocon Middle East Policy: The "Clean Break" Damage Assessment (Adam Shapiro and E. Faye Williams, 2005)

Blogger Ken Prescott June 10, 2018 6:32 PM  

The Iraq War was planned, and sold, by (((neocons))).

And if you look carefully at those neocons, you will find that throughout the 1990s, they were always arguing for "boots on the ground" in order to "show American resolve," and that a good deal of their sponsorship came from General Dynamics Land Systems, the Association of the United States Army and the Institute of Land Warfare, the Army War College, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and the beat went on...

The Army understood what was good for its budget. The Army latched onto the Likudniks for a reason, son.

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