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Sunday, June 10, 2018

Mailvox: by their fruits

Despite the protestations of his defenders, I have yet to hear a single example of anyone becoming a genuine Bible-believing fundamentalist Christian as a result of Jordan Peterson's non-proselytizing non-Christian witness. I have, however, heard the opposite:
I forget the exact quote and am unable to find it now, but I believe you once said that Jordan Peterson's philosophy may be helpful to a few really messed up young men but is overall more damaging and detrimental to young men who are well-adjusted and psychologically healthy. When I read that (or heard it, you may have said it in a Darkstream), I agreed not for any theoretical or philosophical reason, but from experience. Jordan Peterson's influence is in part to blame for my life taking a turn for the worse.

I grew up Christian, was heavily involved in my church as a young man. Personal events in my early college career disillusioned me somewhat regarding my church and my involvement deteriorated. However, I still fully believed in Christian teachings. I graduated college, got married, joined the military, avoided debt, worked hard. I had always been more or less straight-laced.

Enter Jordan Peterson.

I have no idea who it was who first introduced me to Jordan Peterson, sometime during my wife's pregnancy. I saw him pop up now and then on different blogs. He said some interesting things, and things which I agreed with, such as ideas on gender and biological sex. I watched some of his lectures, and noticed that he always looked and sounded as if he was thinking out loud to himself, but I didn't attach any significance to it. I just assumed it was his style of speaking.

In listening to his lectures, I began to get a general sense that he believed that God was not an entity but a powerful force stemming from our choices, choices that to Peterson had natural consequences, good or evil. To him, as far as I understood it, these consequences were ultimately unavoidable. If you chose badly, they would catch up to you, and if you chose well, they would reward you and allow you to live a good life. Basically, "Chaos and Order." God was the force behind chaos and order, not a god, per se, and the line between chaos and order was the real place to be.

This idea sunk in. I had never thought about it in those terms, and it shook my faith. I began to doubt His existence. Maybe God was just an inexorable natural force and not the real deal. And, too, the marital problems and selfish, sinful decisions I had made incentivized me to look for an escape from God's judgment. Sin always looks to justify itself, and sinners are no different. I wanted to justify my sin, justify myself, and avoid the consequences. All of it together brewed into a perfect storm, which subsequently broke. I told my wife I didn't know if God existed, that I doubted, and that I hated Him for imposing restrictions on my life. It was hardly coherent. She was understandably shocked and appalled.

But I want to be absolutely clear in order to leave no doubt in your mind or the mind of those you may show this email to---I never doubted God's existence prior to Jordan Peterson. Peterson's philosophy shook my belief and deepened my despair and destructive spiral.
Jordan Peterson is a sower of Chaos in the guise of a prophet of Order. It should not be surprising that those who accept his guidance and follow his teachings soon find themselves wandering away from both truth and Truth alike.

Jordan Peterson is NOT a man of the Right, he is NOT on our side, and he is NOT helping anyone come to the the truth. He is like a Menshevik opposing the Bolsheviks who have gone too far in order to fix Communism.

Let's figure out how I can dispense with my white privilege and so that you can tell me when the Left is going too far, since they clearly can, and that's what this debate is about, about political correctness. It's about the Left going too far, and I think it's gone too far in many ways. and I'd like to
figure out exactly how and when so the reasonable Left could make its ascendance again and we could quit all this nonsense.
- Jordan Peterson, Debate with Michael Dyson, Michelle Goldberg, and Stephen Fry.

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61 Comments:

Blogger pyrrhus June 10, 2018 11:42 AM  

Unlike Jordan Peterson, Linh Dinh hits it out of the park...http://www.unz.com/ldinh/postcard-from-the-end-of-america-callowhill-philadelphia/

Blogger Michael Maier June 10, 2018 11:45 AM  

"and that I hated Him for imposing restrictions on my life"

My own faith was hard for me to come by. And I often think of how much I dislike many aspects of His rules. Especially regarding sexual morality.

But His rules are like gravity. You can fight it... but your life is going to be harder. And I truly believe the rules are there for OUR own good. That's easy to forget in times of difficulty.

Thank you for posting this, Vox. You made me re-realize that and it was sorely needed on my part.

Blogger Pale Male June 10, 2018 11:50 AM  

What's poison for one person can be medicine for another.  The lost types who are drowning in Marxist misandry can certainly get something positive from JP.  Once they're open to the idea that feminism, LGBTQ etc. are wrong, they're no longer pre-conditioned to reject the alt-right out of hand.

JP as a phenomenon is very interesting.  He's mainstreaming ideas which have gotten lots of people doxxed, disemployed and unpersoned in the fairly recent past.  That he enjoys PTB tolerance cannot be denied, yet the same PTB were pushing the very ideas he's undercutting (albeit with a faulty prescription at the end).  Obviously the PTB are worried if they're playing with this big a fire.

This means we are at the "then they fight you" stage.  Good times.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 11:52 AM  

The lost types who are drowning in Marxist misandry can certainly get something positive from JP. Once they're open to the idea that feminism, LGBTQ etc. are wrong, they're no longer pre-conditioned to reject the alt-right out of hand.

You're missing the point. Those who go Peterson's way will not arrive at the truth. They will be deceived more deeply, and more effectively.

He's mainstreaming ideas which have gotten lots of people doxxed, disemployed and unpersoned in the fairly recent past.

No, he's not. Name them. Specifically what ideas are those?

Blogger Doug Cranmer June 10, 2018 11:53 AM  

"The lost types who are drowning in Marxist misandry can certainly get something positive from JP. Once they're open to the idea that feminism, LGBTQ etc. are wrong, ..."

That sounds completely reasonable and I know it's completely wrong.

Blogger Jack Amok June 10, 2018 12:06 PM  

The lost types who are drowning in Marxist misandry can certainly get something positive from JP. Once they're open to the idea that feminism, LGBTQ etc. are wrong, ...

Jordanetics. The Kansas City Shuffle of 2018.

Blogger pyrrhus June 10, 2018 12:11 PM  

No, he's not. Name them. Specifically what ideas are those?

Peterson opposes black reparations, which certainly could get him fired at Google.
I think it was Walter Bagehot who said that history shows there are many ideas that are indispensable in the short run, but disastrous in the long run...

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 10, 2018 12:12 PM  

His listeners are already open to the idea that much of radical leftism is wrong. That's his hook. He takes young men who can see the obvious, and diverts them into his neurotic gnostic pseudo-mysticism, so they are actually further from the truth than they were.

Blogger Joseph Maroney June 10, 2018 12:13 PM  

"That he enjoys PTB tolerance cannot be denied, yet the same PTB were pushing the very ideas he's undercutting (albeit with a faulty prescription at the end). Obviously the PTB are worried if they're playing with this big a fire."

Nope. They have a kill switch or they wouldn't be using him.

Blogger Reno Chris June 10, 2018 12:14 PM  

JP may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back for this guy but he had major problems apart from JP and he says so. The very idea that God is "imposing restrictions on my life" is nuts - who is forced into morality against their will by God? It is it a choice - one which this guy clearly chose to ignore God and go his own way. Surprise! - he felt the consequences afterward. The truth is he was trying to live someone else's faith - a very weak foundation to build upon. He falls into the category of "There is no God - and I HATE him!" - in fact he nearly says exactly that in his letter.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 12:15 PM  

Peterson opposes black reparations, which certainly could get him fired at Google.

No, it could not. Google has no position on black reparations; I doubt the executives even favor it themselves. That's incredibly lame.

Blogger Pale Male June 10, 2018 12:15 PM  

Name them. Specifically what ideas are those?
That men and women are different, for one.  That's utter heresy in Wackademia.  If you recall my comment from yesterday, that very idea is what cost Larry Summers the presidency of Harvard.

I'd have to watch his videos to dig up more, and I have no time for videos period.  But that ONE idea isn't a mere chisel chipping away at the foundations of CultMarx, it's a wrecking ball aimed at egalitarianism.  It explains why so much "gender inclusion" doesn't work.  From there it's not a big jump to asking why the rest of CultMarx doesn't work either.  It's a gateway drug.

You see JP as an enemy.  I see him as a purveyor of baby food, which is all too likely to be rejected once the target's teeth come in.  His controllers are obviously desperate and don't see that this leads to their legions of indoctrinated not just falling out of formation, but going completely AWOL.  Good times.

Of course, JP should be fed to those legions and avoided by everyone else.

Blogger S1AL June 10, 2018 12:15 PM  

"Peterson opposes black reparations, which certainly could get him fired at Google."

I don't think you understand the concept of "mainstream".

Blogger Felix Bellator June 10, 2018 12:17 PM  

@2 Michael Maier - "And I truly believe the rules are there for OUR own good."

It might help to think of them more as owner's manual instructions than rules. The Designer of our lives knows the operating parameters of the system better than we do and has communicated the proper maintenance procedures to us. You can replace the oil in your car's engine with water. There is no rule against it, but the design of the engine distress dictates otherwise and the outcome will not be "good."

Blogger Statureman June 10, 2018 12:23 PM  

Certainly don't doubt the sincerity of this story. I had a similar upbringing and stared into the abyss of meaningless atheism on my own. contrary to this account, JP actually helped me move back to God. We cannot fully comprehend God, and humans stumble about trying to understand themselves and the world. Currently I am closet to the belief that much of what is rotten about modern western Christianity is ignorant fundimentalists pharasee-ing all over each other in the name of the god they constructed in their own head to justify their particular way of living.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 12:24 PM  

That men and women are different, for one.

Please.

You see JP as an enemy. I see him as a purveyor of baby food.

He is an enemy who feeds babies to fatten them up for the slaughter. What profit a man to clean his room but lose his soul? I mean, if you're going to give up your soul, at least gain the world for it. Or a date with a pretty girl.

Roissy offers a better deal.

Blogger wreckage June 10, 2018 12:26 PM  

Order and chaos are observed states of the causal system in the context of creation, which puts them what, three orders down from God in the hierarchy of existence?

Blogger wreckage June 10, 2018 12:28 PM  

@15 there are very few of those. Don't be fooled; most of the ignorant Fundamentalist trope is a lie.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 10, 2018 12:29 PM  

Best case perspective, JP is the emergency release valve for a dam.

A dam that shouldn't exist.

Worse case he's a gate to a different turbine in the same dam.

Worst case, he's a second dam catching overflow from the first one.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 10, 2018 12:38 PM  

Pale Male wrote:You see JP as an enemy.  I see him as a purveyor of baby food, which is all too likely to be rejected once the target's teeth come in.  His controllers are obviously desperate and don't see that this leads to their legions of indoctrinated not just falling out of formation, but going completely AWOL. 
You see exactly what you want o see.
What you are describing is mere wishful thinking. "We'll get them hooked on Methadone and then they'll get off the drugs."

You are positing that the majority of people who like and listen to PBJ will suddenly reject everything he says, everything he teaches them. It's ludicrous.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 10, 2018 12:40 PM  

"which puts them what, three orders down from God in the hierarchy of existence?"

God granted a measure of free will to his human creations, while they are still expected to remain part of the hierarchy. This can only be viewed, from the perspective of order/chaos, as either the order of humans being chaotic, or the chaos of humans resulting in order.

Both order and chaos are, in the metaphysical sense, irrelevant concepts with regard to humanity to which they cannot directly apply. They're descriptors of mechanical systems, or otherwise system models which cannot account for spirit.

Blogger Crush Limbraw June 10, 2018 12:43 PM  

This discussion reminds me of Augustine's premise - "Faith comes by hearing, but understanding comes from knowledge and knowledge comes by sight."
Much of church mentality is often almost superstitious - without understanding. On the other hand, JP seems to try to explain some attributes of God without God. Most folks are probably betwixt and between.
Critics of God are the pot calling the potter into question - and so it goes.
Discovering truth for us mortals is a process, not an end state - but if you seek, ye shall find - and I can personally afffirm that I took that originally by faith and can confirm that it is playing out from knowledge by sight!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 10, 2018 12:45 PM  

Put another way, order/chaos is an artifact of the limited human modes of understanding. If we can see a strict pattern, we call something ordered. If we cannot see any pattern we call something chaotic.

Complete chaos is thus seen as "bad" within this sort of paradigm because it represents the inability of a human being to meaningfully extract resources from something. Complete order is seen as "bad" where it represents 100% extraction by an entity other than the observer.

Blogger Garuna June 10, 2018 12:50 PM  

Peterson will lose. Because he has positioned himself as an enemy of identity politics.

The whole "Intellectual Dark Web" is fueled by people in denial about the inevitability of identity politics. They want to go back to the 90s. You can't turn back time. The diversity cancer has spread too much.

Are Peterson and IDW doing anything to get rid of black identity, Latino identity, Muslim identity, etc.? Not really. And if they try, they will fail. Sooner or later, whites will have to come to terms with that fact. The denial of identity politics can only last for so long.

And what happens after people accept the inevitable? We've already seen what a sloppy job Peterson does when directly confronted with the tough questions. The JQ episode was just embarrassing. Peterson was torn apart with ease. Right now the mainstream spotlight is on "clean your room, stand up straight, wipe your ass". But when the spotlight moves onto the tougher question, he will crumble.

I know many Peterson fans. They haven't done any serious research into him. All they know is that he fights SJWs and he says some redpilled truths. They won't react well when they find out he's a committed anti-nationalist.

I expect the Peterson craze to last a few more years. After that, it will fizzle out. I'm sure Peterson will ruin some lives in the meantime, like the guy who wrote the e-mail. But ultimately, he'll be viewed how most view neoconservatism today. A relic of the past.

Blogger Lovekraft June 10, 2018 1:01 PM  

One thing that stood out when he first burst onto the scene (confronting the SJWs in that university square while the SJWs were trying to drown him out with white noise) was his warning to the marxists that, should they keep going, they will not like the reaction (read: alt-right).

So he can thank us for being enough of a force that he can use us to warn the marxists. But this is a subliminal dig at us since he paints us as violent and cutthroat.

JP is like the Escape Plan Organizer on a cruise line, who wants to decide who gets on the lifeboats first. What I and likely others are doing is argue that we do not deserve to be at the bottom of this list and in fact deserve to be given much more priority than the usual groups that we all know but cannot mention.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 10, 2018 1:14 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Put another way, order/chaos is an artifact of the limited human modes of understanding. If we can see a strict pattern, we call something ordered. If we cannot see any pattern we call something chaotic.


So much this.
Everything is ordered at all times, both at the macro and at the micro. We cannot see the order because it is outside our vision.

Blogger L' Aristokrato June 10, 2018 1:20 PM  

Garuna wrote:Peterson will lose. Because he has positioned himself as an enemy of identity politics.

...


There's never been any doubt of that.
You can only suppress reality for so long, before it comes back to kick you in the gut.

The issue is, how much damage will the influence of Peterson and his ilk do before they fall.
The longer it takes for peoples, especially Whites and Christians, to operate based on the realities of the World, the more terrible are the measures which will prove necessary when they finally do.
Whatever his positives, ultimately, Peterson simply works to keep people asleep a while longer. In practical terms, he's nothing but an advocate of eventual war and genocide; Whether he likes/realizes it or not.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 10, 2018 1:23 PM  

I should qualify that to say that everything outside the human mind/will/heart is ordered.

Blogger FP June 10, 2018 1:58 PM  

"Let's figure out how I can dispense with my white privilege and so that you can tell me when the Left is going too far, since they clearly can, and that's what this debate is about, about political correctness. It's about the Left going too far, and I think it's gone too far in many ways. and I'd like to
figure out exactly how and when so the reasonable Left could make its ascendance again and we could quit all this nonsense."

And that just says it all. Milquetoast mindset, a so called classical liberal(ist) calling for a "reasonable left" that is a day late and a Loonie short. Once a socialist, always a socialist.

Blogger Pale Male June 10, 2018 2:08 PM  

Roissy offers a better deal.
Which is why I follow him quasi-religiously.

What you are describing is mere wishful thinking. "We'll get them hooked on Methadone and then they'll get off the drugs."
CultMarx is the heroin, and JBP is the methadone.  When the targets have clean rooms but still have no families or careers, they'll have questions... and already be used to getting answers.

You are positing that the majority of people who like and listen to PBJ will suddenly reject everything he says
I'm positing that they'll notice that it hasn't made a difference, especially once they permit themselves to listen to voices from the alt-right.  THAT will lead to rejecting the faulty prescriptions.

Peterson will lose. Because he has positioned himself as an enemy of identity politics.
One of the things his followers will Notice is that their enemies have gone even deeper into identity politics.  These contradictions, once seen, cannot be unseen.

Like I said, he's baby food for weaning Marxbots off their indoctrination.

when the spotlight moves onto the tougher question, he will crumble.
Yup.

They won't react well when they find out he's a committed anti-nationalist.
It is a self-limiting problem, isn't it?  And after the PTB have allowed so many redpill messages, they're going to find it very hard to go back to suppressing them.  Impossible, I bet.

Blogger Chesapean June 10, 2018 2:10 PM  

@12 Pale Male

You see JP as an enemy. I see him as a purveyor of baby food.

That's how I see it, too. But Christianity has its own "baby food."

It certainly can be helpful to think of religion as traditional psychology, but even then you can't learn the thing except on its own terms, through itself.

Blogger pyrrhus June 10, 2018 2:21 PM  

Google has no position on black reparations; I doubt the executives even favor it themselves. That's incredibly lame.

That's pretty lame..Google has no official position on most things, but their SJWs calling the shots certainly do...

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 2:27 PM  

That's pretty lame..Google has no official position on most things, but their SJWs calling the shots certainly do.

No one has ever been fired from Google for opposing black reparations. You're full of it and you obviously know nothing about Google or its operations.

I know more than a few people who work there at various levels and not a single one of them supports black reparations. Half of them aren't American and probably couldn't tell you what black reparations are.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 2:28 PM  

But Christianity has its own "baby food."

True, but the point of baby food is that it leads to eventually eating real food. Peterson's "clean your room" philosophy is not going to lead to real philosophy, much less real religion.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 2:32 PM  

Like I said, he's baby food for weaning Marxbots off their indoctrination.

Like I said, you're wrong. He's indoctrinating them into globalism. The SJWs are to be preferred, since anyone sane eventually notices they're wrong.

Meanwhile, you and loads of other conservatives and Christians are actively championing a godless left-wing globalist.

It's remarkably stupid.

Blogger English Tom June 10, 2018 2:33 PM  

@Azure

Re: the safety valve. I think it's more that they play the dialectic. So they rule the left, take it way beyond the bounds of sanity. When people noticed this and search for a remedy, we have people like JP to lead them down another wrong path. The controllers don't really care about left or right, just that they get to keep control.

Blogger Alphaeus June 10, 2018 2:36 PM  

" so the reasonable Left could make its ascendance again"

VD was right again. Professor Kermit wants to fix the Left, not defeat it. He thinks there is such a thing as a "reasonable Left," and he wants it to ascend again? Who and what is he talking about? FDR? LBJ? Woodrow Wilson? Che Guevara? Somebody needs to make him explain what he means by the reasonable Left. Somebody else, I mean, because I'm inclined to ignore him now, like he was David Frum, or someone like that.

"Peterson's "clean your room" philosophy is not going to lead to real philosophy, much less real religion."

Does anyone else besides yo mama care if your room is clean? When you show up at the Pearly Gates, does St Peter ask you if you cleaned your room?

When someone who thinks there is a reasonable Left tells you to clean your room, you have a right and a duty to be suspicious.

Blogger Cecil Henry June 10, 2018 2:42 PM  

I suspect Peterson is ultimately a 1980's NDP (socialist party Canada) in disguise.

He just wants to go back to the days where the fruits of this leftist anti-White evil were only visible as seeds.

Blogger S'mon June 10, 2018 2:50 PM  

>>I believe you once said that Jordan Peterson's philosophy may be helpful to a few really messed up young men but is overall more damaging and detrimental to young men who are well-adjusted and psychologically healthy.<<

I'm sure that's true, but the numbers of young and not so young men who are messed up is very great, which I'm not sure is really appreciated here. Here in Britain it could well be the majority of white men.

I would definitely concur with keeping Jordanetics away from real Christians. For the lost souls, I think it's better than the usual left-liberal alternative.

Blogger rumpole5 June 10, 2018 2:55 PM  

”He is like a Menshevik opposing the Bolsheviks who have gone too far in order to fix Communism.”

You nailed it. Like so many Cu k types he really liked leftist ideas when they were edgy but had no real power and effect on the culture as a whole, but not so much when the madness goes mainstream and he has a peak into the abyss

Blogger Chesapean June 10, 2018 3:15 PM  

@35 VD

Peterson's "clean your room" philosophy is not going to lead to real philosophy, much less real religion.

Understood.

Since you first brought it up, I have begun to see Peterson's work as therapeutic instead of scientific.

Blogger Jack Collinson June 10, 2018 3:25 PM  

If anyone wants to understand the way that Peterson thinks about God - which I believe sits squarely in the tradition fo Post-Enlightenment, Post-Kantian thought - I highly recommend these lectures by Dr. William Marshner on "Modernism", which is the label that the Catholic Church gave to this kind of false philosophy about God. They're highly entertaining and insightful lectures; they're not just of interest to Catholics, but to anyone wanting to understand all the vague, modern, equivocating gobbledygook about "God".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVS-kOW6eM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1zMRtALLQ

Blogger Pale Male June 10, 2018 3:30 PM  

you and loads of other conservatives and Christians are actively championing a godless left-wing globalist.
Championing him?  Hardly.  I'm just not going to interfere when the enemy is making a mistake.  Allowing any level of realtalk into the miasma of Marxist fog is only going to create an appetite for more.

When people noticed this and search for a remedy, we have people like JP to lead them down another wrong path.
This is far more widespread than you're even prepared to understand.  Both major US political orthodoxies are full of these traps and misdirections.

Blogger Rhys June 10, 2018 4:25 PM  

Personally, I don't give too much of a crap about the guy, because I was already into red-pill stuff before he came around. For anyone whom that is the case, all you're going to hear is completely white-washed version of the stuff you've been hearing for years.

I don't think he takes people further from the truth in a linear sense, but he does lead them into a more comfortable lie that will no doubt result in them staying in the dark longer. Arguably, this could be considered "further" from the truth over all.

One thing I find really bizarre is his future authoring program, or whatever it's called. You're supposed to disclose all these uncomfortable truths about yourself and your thoughts and then they're reviewed by someone, or something like that, so you can confront them. When I first read about it I was assuming it would just be writing to oneself ala Meditations, but the fact you have to submit them "privately" is astoundingly fishy. I have no doubt that this information will not be kept secure between you and whatever party is supposed to review it, which would mean an ulterior motive. I think you have to pay for the whole mess as well.

Blogger Johnny June 10, 2018 4:45 PM  

I got a copy of Peterson's book from the library and read very little of it. The material he turns out is the sort of thing I can't handle reading.

If you are in an extensional quest for a better understanding of things, you might take the material he covers and read it for yourself. Then think about it and form your own opinion. If you want a sound interpretation of the stuff, forget about Peterson. The guy is all over the place.

Blogger Durandel June 10, 2018 4:46 PM  

Is trotting out supposed credentials to support an arguement, rather than say, actual evidence, a gamma tell?

Blogger Kelly June 10, 2018 5:15 PM  

I had never heard of Jordan Peterson except through this blog. However I did decide to go to "the source" of a couple of interests of mine a few years ago - dreams and MBTI. So I read Jung. Much of what he wrote seemed like word salad to me, but there was something distinctly unclean about it. I had a hard time understanding why I felt that way, til I later learned how he attributed all his ideas to things he was taught by his spirit guides. His heavy involvement with the occult was not directly apparent in what I was reading but if it came from that source, that may explain the unclean feeling I got from reading it. I can also say that reading Jung damaged my spiritual life though I did not understand why.


From learning of Peterson here, I watched a couple of his videos and see that Jung is a huge influence on him which was enough for me to reject him completely.


Author Richard Noll wrote a couple of books about Jung (he is not a fan to say the least). Here is a link to an interview with him about Jung:

https://www.hgi.org.uk/resources/delve-our-extensive-library/interviews/mysterious-jung-his-cult-lies-he-told-and-occult

Blogger Othello June 10, 2018 5:45 PM  

Respect.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 6:16 PM  

No, Pyrrhus, I'm not wrong. I know exactly what I'm talking about with regards to Google. Hold whatever opinion you want, say whatever you like on your blog, but you're done on this thread.

Blogger VD June 10, 2018 6:18 PM  

Is trotting out supposed credentials to support an arguement, rather than say, actual evidence, a gamma tell?

Not really. It just means a) you don't know how to argue effectively and b) you're too dumb to realize when someone actually has more relevant information than you do.

Pyrrhus's appeal to his outdated Fortune 1000 experience cannot trump my direct knowledge of the specific corporation's personnel and policies.

Blogger Rick June 10, 2018 7:46 PM  

You know what they say; you can take the Peterson out of Canada...

Blogger Mr. Deficient June 10, 2018 9:35 PM  

Things that could get JBP fired at most corporations.

1. Differences between the genders.

2. Differences between the races.

3. The nuclear biological family unit being superior to single parent or homosexual or no child families.

4. Advocating for women to stop work ing temporarily in order to have a family.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 10, 2018 10:10 PM  

@39

"I would definitely concur with keeping Jordanetics away from real Christians. For the lost souls, I think it's better than the usual left-liberal alternative."

Poison with sugar in it, to hide the bitter taste of full-strength poison, is still poison.

It's better for people to have only two choice -- bitter-tasting poison, and edible food, rather than to introduce an alternate poison offering that tastes like candy.

Blogger Garuna June 10, 2018 10:48 PM  

I don't buy the "Peterson is so stunning and brave, he could get fired" narrative.

Anti-SJW, anti-identity politics is profitable at the moment. It gets you a shitload of money on Patreon. It gets you a shitload of money from speaking engagements. It gets you protected "blue check" status on websites like Twitter and Youtube. It gets you a lot of media attention. It gets you fame. It gets you endorsement from the New York Times as the approved opposition.

There's nothing brave about what Peterson is doing. Even leftists are rejecting SJWism. Look at Anita Sarkeesian. She was a star a few years ago and now she's running a dead channel. Peterson simply noticed a shift in the currents and realigned himself according for money and fame.

How does he respond when he actually has to put his money, fame, and status at risk for the uncomfortable truths? He lies, lies, lies. He values what he has gained from shilling against nationalism. That JQ and Faith Goldy episodes should've been enough to convince everyone that there's no bravery in what he does. He is a coward through and through. He will always run away from a real challenge like he's been doing since he was a little kid.

An example of an actual brave person would be Roosh. Look at the shit he's gone through. Read Free Speech Isn't Free. He hasn't been rewarded with anything. He's only received punishment. He's been banned from countries. His family has been under attack. He's been banned from Paypal. He can't even do a happy hour without getting shut down ffs. That is because like white identity, true masculine identity is also under attack.

Is Peterson even offering true masculine identity? Just look at his hardcore followers who have shown up here in the past few weeks. Fucking liars and deceivers all of them. Cowards. That tells you all you need to know about the kind of man Peterson is, and the kind of men he's raising as their makeshift father figure.

The whole "anti-SJW" thing is being coopted by the establishment. The sooner some of you come to terms with that the better.

Blogger Samuel Nock June 10, 2018 11:16 PM  

@47 That interview with Richard Noll on Jung is truly eye-opening vis-a-vis Peterson. Aside from the historical particulars, you could practically switch out Jung's name for Peterson's, and you would think he were describing the Peterson phenomenon. What's doubly interesting is that Peterson has _telegraphed_ so much of his intentions: he _declares_ his desire to create a new religion that will replace Christianity. Jung clearly is a blueprint for him, not just in interest about myth, but about his intentions.

Some key quotes from that interview (again, you need to remind yourself you aren't reading about someone describing Peterson):

"He rather self-consciously gathered his community around him as a religious prophet would. He would lead them as a prophet. You wouldn't get that necessarily from reading his few professional publications during World War I, but if you read private letters or patients’ diaries and other archival materials, you begin to see what’s going on. He deliberately created a charismatic religious group.

"But Jung was a bright guy, a professor for a while and a respected doctor and a world famous scientist. So he had a lot to lose if he just went totally over the top and went public as a raving religious fanatic. But in private he certainly behaved that way. Jungians, as you may imagine, absolutely hate this view of their hero. They don't like the word cult, but I can't think of a better one for what was going on.

"So his disciples believed, and it's clear from the numerous diaries I've read that they actually did, that, by each individual working on his or herself, they believed they were transforming the soul of the world. They were redeeming the world.

"[I]n private the Jungians themselves openly promote the religious nature of their movement, but in public statements they make the unconvincing – indeed deliberately misleading – claim that Jung is only saying that “everything is psychological, everything is symbolic” and is making no metaphysical claims."

https://www.hgi.org.uk/resources/delve-our-extensive-library/interviews/mysterious-jung-his-cult-lies-he-told-and-occult

Blogger insight June 10, 2018 11:36 PM  

"Like I said, he's baby food for weaning Marxbots off their indoctrination."

That's not how evil works they set it up so you cant's leave cue Hotel California song .,, ah forget it here's a bible verse

For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 2 peter 2:18

"Meanwhile, you and loads of other conservatives and Christians are actively championing a godless left-wing globalist.

It's remarkably stupid.


Because MPAI and one of its main components feminism.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2018 1:40 AM  

"Google has no official position on most things, but their SJWs calling the shots certainly do...

"The Bolivian army has no official position on robbery, but their officers calling the shots certainly do..."

See the self contradiction now?


As far as JBP, are we really still arguing about this? Replacing an obvious set of lies with a more sophisticated set is worse than doing nothing. People have a better chance of their mental immune systems "getting over" the obvious lies, and/or will get over them sooner.

JBP is literally grabbing people who are starting to recoil at the obvious lies, and shoveling them full of even more obfuscative ones. It's even worse than that, since JBP is taking people who would, at worst, otherwise be low-tier SJW useful idiots and shaping them into mid-tier globalists puppets.

This is akin to solving a problem with wolves occasionally picking off your people in the woods by feeding them so they aren't hungry. In a few years you'll have wolves out the wazoo and not only won't you be able to feed them anymore, but they now seriously threaten the survival of your entire village rather than just the occasional person (idiot) wandering out in the woods at night.

Blogger Lyon June 11, 2018 2:16 AM  

@42. Thanks for sharing the link(s). I'm listening to the first one now and it has caught my interest (...so far).

Blogger Lyon June 11, 2018 4:08 AM  

@42. Interesting. William Marshner, from a lecture in the early 1990s, nails the JBP type charlatans. He mocks their error below:

"Modernism is always standing at the brink of a conceptual mutation... all past historical historical articulations by the Church have been attempts to say the unsayable... but we're doing better now. Have you read my new book? Better yet, have you 'bought' my new book? ...Modernism could leave the entire Creed unamended... All the prose stands. What changes is all the meaning." - William Marshner

Its not a coincidence JBP titled his rabbit-hole book "Maps of Meaning"

This dovetails with what Vox has stated repeatedly. Once they start changing the definition of traditional words, a bait and switch is taking place.

Blogger Kelly June 11, 2018 8:57 AM  

@55 Another interesting parallel between Jung and Peterson are the Messiah visions/dreams. Vox's post here details at least one of Peterson's: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-reluctant-messiah.html?m=1

Jung's infamous Red Book details a dream / vision of his guides Elijah and Salome in which Salome tells Jung he is the Christ.


The text of the Red Book is accessible in Google Books. I found that reference on pages 196-198 if anyone is curious.

Blogger Alphaeus June 11, 2018 9:54 AM  

"The whole "anti-SJW" thing is being coopted by the establishment. The sooner some of you come to terms with that the better."

One thing people forget is that our demon infested enemies believe in the Hegelian dynamic of Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis. It is pretty much their standard playbook to push the SJW garbage, and then lead the opposition to it, because it's all about stirring the pot and swinging the hammer of demolition at society back and forth. Agitate, rinse, and repeat.

Some people call it order out of chaos. I call it major chaos out of minor chaos until they get Total Chaos. Their god is Satan, and Satan is a murderer who wants us all dead and safely ensconced in hell with him.

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