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Friday, June 15, 2018

Mailvox: fencing, converged

A swordsman comments on the convergence in the historical fencing community in Europe.
I practice historical European swordsmanship as a hobby. Recently, two of the most gifted and well-regarded fencers/teachers in our small community have been under attack, including calls to boycott merchandise bearing their names, because they are “Nazis”.  IOW, they publicly object to the ongoing invasion of their native Sweden. Also, in general the community is being “converged” and made unwelcoming to anyone right of Lenin, following your descriptions of the phenomenon to the letter.

Formerly politics was not a viciously divisive matter in our community. Heck, when I first started 15 years ago libertarianism was probably the most represented political persuasion.  It has gotten so bad that the vocal SJWism is likely keeping some Christians and conservatives from joining the community. The irony of SJWs trying to drive Christians and nationalists away from the study of an art which was originally practiced by Medieval knights cannot be overstated.

Enough men in the community recognize this as nonsense that there is something of a counter-movement coalescing, although it is still in the very early and informal stages. As the leading researcher on SJW convergence, is there any particular advice you could offer?  In any case, these events are yet more confirmation of theory.
There are two options. Either drive out all the SJWs by banning all reference to politics and attempts to thought-police the community or leave en masse, form a new organization, and be damned sure to keep all the SJWs out. Either make it an explicitly Christian or nationalist organization, and be sure that whoever is in charge is not overly eager to pursue female membership; those are the men who are primarily responsible for convergence happening in the first place because they will excuse literally anything so long as it gives them an opportunity to have some women around.

The most important thing is to lead by example. Don't argue, don't warn, and don't negotiate. If I were in this fencer's position, I would start a new organization with the two leading guys and refuse to have anything to do with any of the known SJWs while welcoming those willing to leave the old organization for the new one.

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101 Comments:

Blogger Ken Prescott June 15, 2018 8:40 PM  

"There are two options. Either drive out all the SJWs by banning all reference to politics and attempts to thought-police the community or leave en masse, form a new organization, and be damned sure to keep all the SJWs out."

There is a third option, but helicopters are expensive.

Blogger tz June 15, 2018 8:41 PM  

It doesn't happen much here, but for fencing, we typically mean barbed wire, razor wire, or electrified.

They need to add ink nibs to the end of the swords or rapiers - the pen is mightier than the sword. Especially when loaded with ricin.

Blogger tz June 15, 2018 8:45 PM  

One of the main problems with SJWs is that they are both stupid and willing to be martyrs up until the last 15 minutes.

Ordinary men (and women) are intelligent enough when encountering an advesary to calculate how far they ware willing to go (e.g. Civic nationalists will let their daughters be raped).

But I could take every last SJW in the vacinity and crucify them in a strech between Graybull and Cody and yet they would not learn. Though that most others would be driven to their playdoh puppy safe spaces might be worth it.

Blogger lazlo azavaar June 15, 2018 8:52 PM  

You gotta nip this crap in the bud, swiftly and brutally. Or be prepared to lose another hobby to these locusts.

Blogger SidVic June 15, 2018 8:54 PM  

VD, is totally correct here! View these developments as opportunities. Start a alternative club.

Blogger Badpainter June 15, 2018 8:55 PM  

"I could take every last SJW in the vacinity and crucify them in a strech between Graybull and Cody and yet they would not learn."


Location, Location, Location

Try I-80 from Cheyenne to Laramie, or perhaps CO36 from Broomfield to Boulder

Blogger Lovekraft June 15, 2018 8:59 PM  

This guy writes like the kind of person who would be targeted by the SJWs, while at the same time being the type who would be able to destroy them should he put his mind to it.

O/T Theranos 'Female Steve Jobs' founder Liz Holmes is indicted. Seems she took too many to the cleaners.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JB2WP

Blogger Dire Badger June 15, 2018 9:03 PM  

We kicked women out of the order of the Lily basically by requiring a test of fencing skills... against a competent opponent.
So far there has been exactly ONE woman who had the skills necessary to continue fighting at Lily events, and she got pregnant. When she came back, she was so out of shape she still hasn't been able to rejoin, almost two years later.

Blogger SirHamster June 15, 2018 9:07 PM  

Ken Prescott wrote:
There is a third option, but helicopters are expensive.


Trebuchets have much lower operating costs, I'd think.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey June 15, 2018 9:09 PM  

I would also loudly say to everybody that their diversity is not diverse. That their tolerance is not tolerant. Just to cement the notion that they speak lies always.

Blogger Stephen June 15, 2018 9:13 PM  

Damn I am planning on taking up that hobby after I move. Seemed like a nice martial art to practice without all the Asia philia. A lot of the material I have seen on websites does a lot of discrediting of all the Europe bashing in pop history.

Blogger James Dixon June 15, 2018 9:14 PM  

If they feel safe going after two major names in the field, they think their position is entrenched enough to prevent their being thrown out. If they're correct starting a new organization is the only option.

Blogger Unknown June 15, 2018 9:24 PM  

It is too bad dueling is right out, in this situation it would be the perfect solution...

Unfortunately @12 James is right, if they think they can go after the top two names in the field, they feel secure in leveling the accusation. Time to unass and start over.

Before you do, however, make sure you take careful notes on who the SJWs are, and permanently bar them, and anyone they associate with as well.

Blogger HalibetLector June 15, 2018 9:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 15, 2018 9:32 PM  

At this point, the inquirer has little to lose. Start asking around. "Are you with us or them? Would you rather we start a new org or push our agenda in this existing one?" The best result is to get the SJWs to want to leave and form their own org. Push back. Think past the sale and suggest some good names to them for their new group. Use the split to establish anti-SJW policy.

If the quiet fence sitters are made aware that talent might be leaving, they might barely lift a hand against the SJWs who are causing the split. But if those fence sitters are more trouble than they are worth, then definitely start a new org and let them stay behind. There is a trade off between having dedicated, like minded members and just getting enough people to make get togethers worthwhile.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 15, 2018 9:33 PM  

Guys, the reference to knights indicates to me that by "historic fencing" he means Western Martial Arts.

Now, I could be wrong about that but that is what it sounds like.

If so, then this kind of an organization is very vulnerable to SJWism. The ones that I was once involved with in the USA were completely taken over by them years ago.

The reason in the US was that it became the kind of community that is a pseudo family, very much like the Worldcon Truefen.

Often these people have strained or broken relationships with their blood relatives and thus the pseudo-family fills the gap.

These pseudo-family units are very vulnerable to SJW Entryism and convergence because once the SJW gets into a position of authority she (and it will probably be a she) will have the power to throw any individual out of the pseudo-family. And they won't hesitate to use it.

Blogger Cedric June 15, 2018 9:40 PM  

I agree with James and one of Vox's options on forming a new organization. Starting a new one lets one have all of the important players as well as control it at the onset, which is much easier than editing a previous organization with variable power where the enemy may already have significant power. Likely at this point if they're that bold they've infiltrated the power structure of the original organization significantly.

OT: Just received my copy of Alt Hero #1, I'm not normally into comic books, but it was damn enjoyable. Your front in the culture war shall be supported, and I will continue to support it.

Blogger eclecticme June 15, 2018 9:56 PM  

Never apologize and never back down. With normal opponents you might want to split the difference or meet them part way. That will backfire as one inch given will turn into a demand for more grovelling.

You could go on the offensive but you do not have to. Just plant your feet. As a matter of personal style you could worse than the recent US example of Sarah Sanders. Ann Coulter does it well also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejcUwTQAq7k

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 10:14 PM  

Run them through, all of them. Say something witty as they bleed out.

Problem solved.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 10:16 PM  

You could tell them you've legally changed your name to Inigo Montoya, then kill them.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 15, 2018 10:17 PM  

eclecticme wrote:Never apologize and never back down.
In my limited and possibly atypical experience, a calm expression of contradictory opinion shatters a lot of SJW confidence in a social group. SJWs assume everyone agrees with them. One person showing bravery gives others courage. In a social group, the first time I said that Trump would easily win, I got several scoffs, later neutrality, now deference. Calm assurance based on principles works wonders.

But like Vox and others said, if there's no route to gain control, calmly split off. Or ...
Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Run them through, all of them. Say something witty as they bleed out.

Blogger Dirtnapninja June 15, 2018 10:24 PM  

I can tell you what happened...10 years ago HEMA was a niche thing. Then it started gaining some mainstream attention and the purplehairs started pouring in bringing toxicity with them. I could see what was happening even then and severed contact with certain orgs and tournaments.

The two men in question are also, literally, world champion longsword fencers who have been profiled in places like the NYT. They are titans in this. The ones driving this have, of course, accomplished nothing.

Remember..dont apologise.
Dont explain.
And punch back, twice as hard.

Blogger Angantyr June 15, 2018 10:25 PM  


"There is a third option, but helicopters are expensive."

:-) "Give a man a ride in a helicopter, and he'll fly for a couple of hours. Push him out at altitude, and he'll fly for the rest of his life."

That quote always makes me smile.

Blogger Dirtnapninja June 15, 2018 10:29 PM  

Oh one thing..the best fencers mostly lean right. If they form their own org, what is left are the fatties, the larpers and the purplehairs.

Blogger Angantyr June 15, 2018 10:29 PM  

By the by, would it be possible to point to a website where the merchandise might be purchased? If I can, I'd like to support in some fashion. Though not a WMA practitioner (yet) I do collect and occasionally make reproduction swords, maces, etc., so this unholy mess strikes close to home for me.

Blogger Jack Amok June 15, 2018 10:48 PM  

Trebuchets have much lower operating costs, I'd think.

Remember, you're dealing with SJWs here. You'll need a big counterweight to send the larger ones any practical distance. Of course, the helicopters would need extra fuel too, so...

Cataline makes a good point about pseudo family organizations. Something like this, you'd expect the physical accomplishment necessary to keep the SJWs out, but anything that's a little bit odd attracts the misfit toys.

Blogger Steve Mackelprang June 15, 2018 10:48 PM  

I'm sure the Russian clubs have this same problem... lol

Blogger Lazarus June 15, 2018 10:52 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Run them through, all of them. Say something witty as they bleed out.

Problem solved.


How about, "If I ask for you tomorrow, shall I find you a grave man?"

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 15, 2018 11:05 PM  

You are correct ma’am. I am showing my vintage by using by “historical fencing” rather than HEMA.
Nerd hobbies attract rejectts/misfits and I certainly include myself in that number, but SJW witch-hunting is new. I sometimes think it is best compared to an absolutist and very intolerant religion for atheists.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 15, 2018 11:08 PM  

I’m not important or successful enough in any realm to be a target. This means I have the freedom to say what I want, and frequently do, but it doesn’t matter.

Blogger Jack Amok June 15, 2018 11:17 PM  

Nerd hobbies attract rejectts/misfits and I certainly include myself in that number, but SJW witch-hunting is new.

It's part of the feminization of society. Or rather the acceptance of women into men's organizations, especially the acceptance of them into leadership positions.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 15, 2018 11:19 PM  

There’s still a lot of normal and even redpilled guys, but the SJWs are certainly loudest.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 15, 2018 11:23 PM  

The detritus will just move on from the current organization, and start the woke process over. You must crush the current infestation mercilessly, and preserve the organization.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira June 15, 2018 11:27 PM  

Most fencers are right wing, including myself. Not sure where these SJWs are coming from but I'd quickly ban them or follow VD's advice.

Blogger Dirtnapninja June 15, 2018 11:42 PM  

Daniel Paul Grech Pereira wrote:Most fencers are right wing, including myself. Not sure where these SJWs are coming from but I'd quickly ban them or follow VD's advice.

People who email us are vetted and doxxed. We pay close attention to their social media and education records. We dont allow certain personalities, and if you have any hint of strong leftwing beliefs we will not contact you back. Our chat and discussion is private, and off topic discussions are banned. This keeps the drama to a minimum and keeps out the commies, feminists and other assorted scum. We have a nice tight group that doesn't care about politics while in the salle and focuses on studying sword.

Blogger wreckage June 15, 2018 11:49 PM  

Indirect. First, gather support for a "members must practice" rule. Push this to preserve the organization as an actual sporting organization, not a LARP. Now push for competitive skill rankings. Either belts or just master/apprentice. Place executive control entirely under a small group of the highest ranked fighters, with a larger body of automatic membership, can't kick them out, but no executive control, consisting entirely of those who pass a fitness and skill test.

This removes the possibility of "infiltrate, worm into HR or membership control, and start kicking out all the non-SJWs".

Another alternative is to insist on a code of conduct that is period-appropriate and includes formal address of one's betters. This chokes out the "code of conduct" space that the SJW's will aim for.

I suggest these because they will be very difficult to deflect into some sort of personal fight with the SJW in question. Support can be built independently, and the moral theater of war won, before prosecuting the larger war. Be sure to play them straight, do not go around snickering about getting rid of SJW's, be utterly sincere.

Just my thoughts. Anybody got comments?

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 16, 2018 12:00 AM  

In my own HEMA group, the instructor/ business owner differs somewhat in political viewpoint from me, but his personal viewpoint has little to no affect on the group (half of which are young men with military backgrounds). We are there to learn sword arts, and that's what the group does. It's a good group, with no signs of SJWism sliding in yet.
We must remain vigilant, however. I am willing to walk out if leftism becomes the focus.

I too would like to know if the unnamed people in the original post are the people I guess they are, so I can find a way to help support them.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 16, 2018 12:02 AM  

So, essentially, "Bros before hoes".

"Trebuchets have much lower operating costs, I'd think."

Meh. High maintenance, high complexity, may easily be dangerous to the operators.

Embrace the glorious simplicity and brutal euphemism of sharpened nine-foot pole.

Blogger John Williams June 16, 2018 12:08 AM  

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Blogger Brick Hardslab June 16, 2018 12:16 AM  

@36 Wreckage, I don't see anything wrong with those. Although, Vox's original two requirements are excellent with starting their own organization even better.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 16, 2018 12:25 AM  

The explicitly Christian entry requirement will keep out 90% of the lefty crowd if it is enforced, nationalist would get rid of the rest.

Blogger wreckage June 16, 2018 12:31 AM  

@41, mine are aimed at disinfecting, via establishing a sustainable culture, within the existing group.

Blogger Sidehill Dodger June 16, 2018 12:37 AM  

Dire Badger wrote:We kicked women out of the order of the Lily basically by requiring a test of fencing skills... against a competent opponent.


I think this would be a good start to getting rid of the problem. If "historical European swordsmanship" means fighting with realistic (though dulled) weapons, then most women won't be able to do more than swing wildly once or twice, and then get covered with bruises. Make sure the testers are suitably ruthless--enough bruises will discourage most women. If one actually passes the test, and you did it right, then she will probably fit right in.

I used to fence épée in college. Back then, the only type of fencing that women were allowed to compete in was foil. The foil is a very pliable blade with a square cross-section. Only the upper torso is a legal target in foil. The épée has a V-shaped cross section, and is very stiff. (It is, in fact, a dulled dueling sword.) Also, the entire body is target. Modern fencing sabers are light, whippy things. Legal target is the entire upper body, including hand and head. Both of the latter two weapons will leave some bruises, especially if used enthusiastically.

I was really bummed when I heard that they were letting women compete with épée and saber. Looking at the Olympic gold medal awards, it appears that
they started handing out Olympic medals for épée in 1996, and for saber in 2004. You know, I've always wanted an Olympic gold medal. I think I'm starting to feel female.

This modern age is just so...filled with possibilities.

Blogger dvdivx June 16, 2018 12:47 AM  

Vox any chance you can cover the black POS running South Africa and countries that refuse to let white immigrants in?

Blogger ar10308 June 16, 2018 12:50 AM  

Lol. The Polish clubs don't either. They're run by genuine shitlords. And their women support the attitude.

Blogger Jack Amok June 16, 2018 12:51 AM  

First, gather support for a "members must practice" rule. Push this to preserve the organization as an actual sporting organization, not a LARP.

Yes, though you'll still face Pournelle's Iron Law problem - the people who really practice and treat it as a sporting organization will be busy enough that there will be opportunities for what essentially amount to "team moms" to step in and run the organization.

I mean, I'm so busy practicing, I don't have time to chair the Membership Committee, but Jane kindly offered to, and we need someone. Then there's Kathee (she's the one with the nose piercing and cleavage tattoo), she's a CPA and willing to take over for Bob as the Treasurer. Bob qualified for Nationals, so he really wants to focus on training for the next few months...

Maybe if you tie voting to sporting accomplishments? Winners get more votes.

Blogger Ken Prescott June 16, 2018 12:57 AM  

"You could tell them you've legally changed your name to Inigo Montoya, then kill them."

INCONCEIVABLE!

Blogger ar10308 June 16, 2018 1:03 AM  

I am also a member of the Historical Fencing and HEMA communities. Fortunately the club I train with is structured like a dictatorship. The owner of the club intentionally has no Code of Conduct, because he's seen it weaponized against too many good people.

As it stands, the SJW groups are very active on Facebook and are full of mostly terrible fencers. There's a few exceptions, but not many.

Look up groups like Fighters Against Racism. Their main FB discussion groups are run by Communists who regularly screencap and even keep a Black List of fencers who have committed thought or social media thought crimes.

The Black List can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/forumfiends/

Blogger ar10308 June 16, 2018 1:10 AM  

The women in the sport are mostly poor fencers with longswords. The swords aren't particularly heavy, but the female lack of speed does them no good.
The only decent females are ones who regularly train against men, much like in MMA.

Blogger Bellguard June 16, 2018 1:34 AM  

Well, I’ll be damned. Never thought I would see Vox address my sport. Maybe I need to finish writing that MOTW article now about the sport.

Here in the U.S., the prominent centers of fencing are in predominantly Leftist cities, with some few notable exceptions. Your suggestion of creating a new club is somewhat impractical, I’m afraid. It would be better to ostracize the individuals responsible. The fencing world is small, and shunning can be very powerful. Though humiliation on strip is an even better tool.

On the international scene, there are an unfortunate number of Leftist Commie scum found in the French and Italians. The Poles are hardcore Right, God love those bastards. I would say the Ruskies are redeemable but they’re an absolute cancer in the fencing world. They keep trying to get long-standing international rules and regulations changed that haven’t been altered in generations and they don’t need to be.

Fencing is one of the last bastions of sport where ardent traditionalism is a core fundamental that is blatantly demonstrated. There are severe penalties for such breaches, both in a Bout and outside of it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 16, 2018 1:46 AM  

"INCONCEIVABLE!"

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Bonus points for anyone who switches hands during a match, disqualification notwithstanding.

Blogger Cetera June 16, 2018 1:51 AM  

@tz and @Badpainter
I would come back to WY to help. I think 287 might be better than I-80, and Boulder just needs to be nuked from orbit.

Blogger N Matheson June 16, 2018 1:55 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Angantyr June 16, 2018 2:17 AM  

"...and Boulder just needs to be nuked from orbit."

It's the only way to be sure.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2018 2:17 AM  

If it's Historical and European, there's only one proper response. If some esquire or local knight impugns your character, you challenge them to a duel.
First touch wins, loser quits the organization forever.
If they fail to accept, they have demonstrated their lack of honor and will be summarily ejected, and may apply again for membership in three years.

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 16, 2018 3:16 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 16, 2018 3:18 AM  

It's Sad Puppies all the way down:
https://antiracisthema.wordpress.com/is-axel-petterson-a-nazi/
is an attempt to "document" the "arguments."

Blogger CM June 16, 2018 4:33 AM  

Hmmm... this was a sport I wanted to put my oldest in.

Blogger Sim1776 June 16, 2018 4:33 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 16, 2018 5:14 AM  

Heck, when I first started 15 years ago libertarianism was probably the most represented political persuasion.

Libertarianism Always Get Infiltrated.

I'm tempted to write a book about it.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 16, 2018 6:05 AM  

Pseudotsuga wrote:It's Sad Puppies all the way down:

https://antiracisthema.wordpress.com/is-axel-petterson-a-nazi/

is an attempt to "document" the "arguments."


After reading this, it does sound like the organization is too big and the accused is too defensive and apologetic to be a rallying point. Unless existing leadership can marginalize the SJW as disruptive for bringing politics into the organization, separation seems inevitable.

Blogger Solon June 16, 2018 6:32 AM  

Ehh. I wouldn't waste my breath. They don't deserve it.

Also, Mercutio did nothing wrong, thanks for triggering my Shakespearean PTSD. -_-

Blogger Uncle John's Band June 16, 2018 7:00 AM  

One problem that I've observed in less traditional sports is that in the attempt to build enrollment, there is a necessarily less stringent athletic screening. Plus, as pointed out above, there is a tendency for the club to become a sort of pseudo-family like SF fandom. You wind up with vocal members who are committed to things other than the sporting goals. It's just convergence, but exacerbated by athletic discrepancies not usually found on teams in more mainstream sports.

This is particularly bad in co-ed groups.

Blogger Al Du Clur June 16, 2018 7:28 AM  

My son used to fence when he was young so I was one of those parents who spent a lot of time at fencing clubs. There was some B.S. at the club so one of the patents decided it would be saner to just start her own club and run it as she saw fit than to spend countless hours fighting it. Her club was a smashing success as almost all of the patents fled.

I would suggest the same here. Your time is the most important thing you possess. Do you want to squander it on ongoing battles with evil, malicious people who will always be seeking ways to drive out saner people. SJWs are far more interested in never-ending battles than are sane people. Run an organization as you see fit just have it explicitly dedicated to having no convergence and be ruthless at keeping it out.

Blogger insight June 16, 2018 7:45 AM  

OT-

Looks like Einstein was right...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 16, 2018 8:51 AM  

My only suggestion is to look for the weaknesses of the SJW.

Blogger Miguel June 16, 2018 9:44 AM  

"As the leading researcher on SJW convergence"

I like the way that sounds.

Blogger Alphaeus June 16, 2018 9:58 AM  

Come out from among them and be ye separate. New wine requires new wineskins. It's time for a new vehicle, now that the rest of society has been converged. It's a good time to create an explicitly Nationalistic organization that is not hostile to normal people and their normal traditional religions.

Why was Yale founded? Because Harvard got converged, over 300 years ago. Everything gets converged eventually, because the devil loves to destroy, and in order to destroy somebody has to build something.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 16, 2018 10:30 AM  

Trying to convince our side that we need to take similar steps is difficult.

Blogger KBuff June 16, 2018 10:36 AM  

CO36 from Broomfield to Boulder...That's a riot. That would certainly make a bigger statement than the CU flags that are there for game days.

Blogger Zach June 16, 2018 10:48 AM  

Then there's the Guy who decided to virtue signal by taking the word "European" out of the title of his HEMA book.

Because "some people" might look at HEMA as a way to practice and be proud of their European heritage.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 16, 2018 11:12 AM  

What does HEMA stand for? Historical European Martial Arts?

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 16, 2018 11:12 AM  

Yes. I know who to never buy a book from again.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 16, 2018 11:17 AM  

Yep. I personally don’t like that sound of it, but that is the most common term.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 16, 2018 11:20 AM  

The worst ones doing the attacking do tend to be lesser swordsmen, the attached are usually strong and tournament-proven to have skill.

Blogger By My Greybeard! June 16, 2018 11:22 AM  

Perhaps allowing the use of live steel during a match would slow or reverse the infection process.

I see we are going to have to revive the use of dueling in society.

I am certain SJWs would think thrice before opening their biscuit-port if they'd have to “put-up or shut-up”.

The “vengence laws” would also need to be revised to limit the revenge to just the original receiver and the initial irritant, b|c I could see SJWs swarming for revenge and wiping out entire peoples w|o anything but the most flimsy excuses.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz June 16, 2018 11:46 AM  

Treat these people as your enemies. They are trying to ruin your hobby and drive you out.

I think this is the single biggest mistake people make. They do not treat these people as the enemies they are. They see your unwillingness to treat them as such as weakness and will accelerate their attacks!
I've with VD here. Purge them all!

Blogger Hammerli280 June 16, 2018 11:49 AM  

@43 Sidehill Dodger: "I was really bummed when I heard that they were letting women compete with épée and saber."

That never bothered me. Foil always struck me as too rules-bound to be considered a fighting art. What troubles me far more is that fencing as a whole has pretty well fled from its martial heritage. The 15-touch bout is an obscenity...especially for epee. I'm a strong believer in going back to one-touch bouts for epee...fought on a grass strip.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 16, 2018 12:49 PM  

@29

"I sometimes think it is best compared to an absolutist and very intolerant religion for atheists."

All forms of atheism are a religion. It is a belief, without evidence, that there is no possibility for an existance of any god or gods.

The only non-religion is agnosticism -- because it is a lack of belief in anything.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 16, 2018 1:02 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:All forms of atheism are a religion. It is a belief, without evidence, that there is no possibility for an existance of any god or gods

I get a chuckle when smart people think they are being rational and enlightened when they announce they are atheists. But other than the signs and wonders accompanying Christianity, I haven't come up with a next step for a smarty who now claims to believe in all the gods of all the religions.

Blogger Dire Badger June 16, 2018 1:05 PM  

In sports, there should ALWAYS be some women around. They should always be wearing swimsuits, giant foam fingers, or carrying beer.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 16, 2018 1:07 PM  

@81

"But other than the signs and wonders accompanying Christianity, I haven't come up with a next step for a smarty who now claims to believe in all the gods of all the religions."

Easy reply -- "ah, so you're the type of man who is the intellectual equivalent to that type of man who is no more sexually attracted to women than he is to various 2- and 4-legged farm animals."

Blogger Dirk Manly June 16, 2018 1:08 PM  

... or in the spy business, you would just be known far and wide as both a sell-out and a traitor.

Blogger Dire Badger June 16, 2018 1:10 PM  

Hammerli280 wrote:@43 Sidehill Dodger: "I was really bummed when I heard that they were letting women compete with épée and saber."

That never bothered me. Foil always struck me as too rules-bound to be considered a fighting art. What troubles me far more is that fencing as a whole has pretty well fled from its martial heritage. The 15-touch bout is an obscenity...especially for epee. I'm a strong believer in going back to one-touch bouts for epee...fought on a grass strip.


Try SCA. I still have a scar in my left pec where a tip slipped and 4 inches of steel went into my chest, right through the padding.


If you are ever fencing with a newbie, never trust his word that his gear is safe. Learned that one the hard way.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 16, 2018 1:21 PM  

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Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 16, 2018 2:03 PM  

cmbaileytstc wrote:Trying to convince our side that we need to take similar steps is difficult.
Rather than waiting for everybody, get the ones you can and start something new. Once it's going, it will be much much easier to convince others to join you.

When Vox and Markku started Castalia house, they didn't round up 30 writers to form a new publisher. They started a new publisher and went and sold it to the writers.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 16, 2018 2:03 PM  

"I haven't come up with a next step for a smarty who now claims to believe in all the gods of all the religions."

Most of the religions sharply and irrevocably contradict each other. She's just straight up lying through her teeth. I couldn't speak to why, but the evidence is right there.

Blogger Cloom Glue June 16, 2018 2:54 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"I haven't come up with a next step for a smarty who now claims to believe in all the gods of all the religions."

Most of the religions sharply and irrevocably contradict each other. She's just straight up lying through her teeth. I couldn't speak to why, but the evidence is right there.


Yes, she is lying. Ask her to describe how her gods-faith has led her to hope and charity toward others. It is an appropriate question because she is working towards loving nobody, per her anti-human leanings.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 16, 2018 4:01 PM  

A woman whose IQ is 1.5 SD above Vox's?

As a woman who's been interacting on multiple levels with other women for 5 decades, either what you're saying is utter BS, or you're describing the "Unicorniest of Unicorns."
And she chose not to procreate?
Eh, something about this rings all wrong to me.

Blogger Al K. Annossow June 16, 2018 4:46 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Silent Draco June 16, 2018 5:45 PM  

Going back to topic, I suggest also going scorched earth if they leave. Move the bulk of treasury funds with your quality members. Arrange contracts for new sale space. Inform the previous location about the split, and recommend that they consider not renewing. SJWs hate when the resources they crave get snatched away.

Dire Badger, thank you! I know someone who married a cart girl (served up beer at the 9th and 10th holes). Very nice, pretty, and personable, with an important mission: wreck scores on the back nine

Blogger Pseudotsuga June 16, 2018 6:17 PM  

Dire Badger wrote:

Try SCA. I still have a scar in my left pec where a tip slipped and 4 inches of steel went into my chest, right through the padding.
If you are ever fencing with a newbie, never trust his word that his gear is safe. Learned that one the hard way.


A modern day dueling scar! You are a lucky fencer.
I assume that this gear had not been checked or verified by a qualified Marshals.
Gear aside, it is often easier to get hurt by a beginner, who has less control, and acts in unexpected ways.

But drifting back on topic---
Although the SCA attracts a lot of odds, nerds, and even SJW types, I suspect that the Narrative ("we are recreating an idealized Middle Ages") may help temper Leftist influence.
The narrative is not so strong for the HEMA world, since they are not pretending to be medieval people even as they try to learn their combat methods. This allows mission creep, leading to the idiocy which the original poster describes.

Blogger LP999-16 June 16, 2018 8:43 PM  

"The most important thing is to lead by example. Don't argue, don't warn, and don't negotiate."

One cannot reason with convergence or what I kinda call stupid or possibly evil as sjws are evil, dangerous people.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 16, 2018 9:03 PM  

I’ve tried to introduce the idea of spending one’s hobby dollars wisely. There are some books sitting on my shelf by authors who are good swordsmen/writers, but these authors will not see another dime of mine because of their actions in this affair. There are others of equal skill who I will now deliberately seek to patronize. Literally the least I can do.

Blogger Dangeresque June 17, 2018 1:30 PM  

Another option: Just start using real swords.

Blogger Alphaeus June 17, 2018 1:47 PM  

"Another option: Just start using real swords. "

Hey, I just thought of something. Why not have pistol fencing with real bullets and you have to wear a Kevlar vest? That won't attract the cowardly gammas, would it?

Blogger Joel Godfrey June 17, 2018 10:51 PM  

Ever since Trump hit the political scene my HEMA experience slowly became ruined. I found out that half of the people who I liked personally were rabid anti-Trumper virtue signalers on Facebook and did seemingly nothing but dehumanize Trump supporters at every chance.

I'm no longer on Facebook because it angered me so much I had to make sure not to see people for a month to cool myself off and maintain peace with people in my group and region. I literaly wanted to scrape one guy's face off by 60' of sidewalk smashing and sliding. It was a hard time removing that thought, and I decided to calm down for the sake of the club.
Now Axel Pettersson is getting called out? The king of longsword?

luckily there was a scandal at my club with the owner and the SJW's girlfriend and the main problem (the SJW in question) at my club is now humiliated and gone.

However, this scene is full of SJWs for some reason and ever since I realized that I'm not nearly as involved.
I still love doing it, it's physical and challenging but if it gets much more politically SJW I and some others of the club will branch on our own, it's been a brought up option.

Blogger cmbaileytstc June 17, 2018 10:56 PM  

I understand completely
Is this a thing worth fighting for?

Blogger Dirk Manly June 18, 2018 1:38 AM  

If you're already swinging pieces of metal at each other (even as a game), asking "is this worth fighting for?" is already presumed to be a solid "yes."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 18, 2018 2:09 AM  

@Joel,
Why wait? Do it now.

Blogger Joel Godfrey June 18, 2018 10:03 AM  

The main problem left five months ago and several of us are happy about that. The main coach is great but has residual gen X harmony attitudes. Some of us have talked to him about this political stuff (mostly on chats and facebook) interfering with the harmony of the club and he is at least receptive to our concerns on the matter. He respects us enough not to let SJWs ruin his club. Also, he'll call a transvestite a man which says a lot for our city.

The main thing that has bothered me is that some of the people I'd see in competitions aren't the cool pro-Medieval guys I thought they were and a vocal chunk are obvious minor SJWs. It hasn't been that bad lately, but my alliance to the sport has been shot down a bit that's all. I'm going to do it, it's a needed alternative to mainstream sports in my opinion for several obvious reasons - it links you to your people's past, it is European, it demands truth, its martial, it's mental etc..etc..

It is going to stay and grow, and so will people like me in these groups. Enough of us are no-nonsense types that Many clubs will eventually check the SJWs advancement. That's what I think for now anyway. If things go bad a new thing would be set up within two months.

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