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Tuesday, June 05, 2018

Mailvox: unorthodox or enemy?

JD doesn't understand why I identify Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro as enemies rather than unorthodox allies:
I've read your blog and watched your videos related to Jordan Peterson with a great deal of interest. One of the members of a book club I'm in picked 12 Rules and we have been reading it and discussing it. (Everybody in the club seems to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.)  My adult sons have enthusiastically sent me several videos featuring JP debating various people and my kids see JP as a valuable Culture Warrior and I tend to agree.

My question is, how do we draw the boundaries between who is orthodox and who is heterodox when it comes to the Culture Wars? When does heterodoxy become heresy and the person is now an enemy?

For example, within Christianity, historically the non-negotiable is the Word of God- the Living and the Written. To be a Christian, one must believe and follow Jesus Christ as God in the flesh, co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father. The Bible must be viewed as authored by God and authoritative. We have Scripture and creeds that have more or less defined the boundaries of what can be legitimately defined as "Christian."

This, of course, doesn't mean that Christians don't disagree about a variety of things doctrinally, in church polity, and personal practice. This reality, however, doesn't mean it is a free for all and we cannot employ terms like "orthodox," "heterodox," and even "heretic."

Is there similar boundary defining principles and nomenclature in the Culture War? When does someone's beliefs or practices move them from the Ally list to the Enemy list?

Back to Jordan Peterson. I don't believe he is a Christian. I disagree with all of the Jungian psychobabble. I agree that he seems to be unstable in his own mental health and has some delusions of grandeur. (I know for a fact that he is a terrible writer.)

I won't be a bit surprised if "something" comes out about him in the future and the wheels come off the wagon, but for now, I see him as being on "our side" of the Culture War- he is anti-political correctness, anti-identity politics, he believes in biological gender and traditional gender roles, he believes in meritocracy and personal freedom and responsibility, also, he generally makes the right people angry. Is this guy not an ally?

I remain unconvinced that he is an enemy based upon his not knowing the nuances of Jewish IQ studies or the conspiracy theory type arguments put forth about globalism or supporting pedophilia or any of the "controlled opposition" theorizing. Much of that seems tenuous at best- especially when compared to the black and white areas of agreement I do have with Jordan Peterson.

Why isn't it enough to say, "I agree with JP here and here and here, but I disagree with him here and here and here, but hey, he is on our side"? What crosses the line into heresy? (I feel similarly about Ben Shapiro- I get the "chickenhawk" stuff and I wish he supported Trump, but the guy isn't he doing great work in the Culture Wars?)

What makes your Enemy Status for people like JP and Shapiro even more confusing is the people that you don't distance yourself from- I'll take Shapiro over Milo any day in the Culture Wars, and if JP is a nut-job snake oil salesman, Alex Jones is every bit a nut-job who sells literal snake oil on his website. I don't get it.

How do you determine who is orthodox and heterodox, who is an ally and who is a heretic? How much uniformity of belief is necessary for unity in the Culture War?
To which I responded:

You and your kids are totally wrong. Jordan Peterson is a paid up, committed professional globalist. His objectives are directly opposed to the survival of America and the West.

If someone was trying to fix Nazism, you wouldn't say that he's a Jewish ally. If someone was trying to fix Communism, you wouldn't say that he is a capitalist ally. Jordan Peterson is trying to fix globalism. He is trying to destroy nationalism, your nation, and your people.

He is not an ally of any kind.

The fact that you would take Ben Shapiro over Milo just indicates how utterly clueless you are about these things. I'm sorry to be so direct, but it's absolutely true. Shapiro, Peterson, et al are 100 percent enemies. There is literally nothing good about them or their objectives.

And further to which:

A civic nationalist is a heterodox ally. They are, for the most part, merely mistaken, deluded, naive, or ignorant rather than evil. A globalist, an imperialist, or a tribalist who seeks the destruction of the West or any Western nation is an enemy, especially if they wear the false cloak of a civic nationalist to conceal their true objectives. Donald Trump, Alex Jones, Milo, and Mike Cernovich are all pro-American civic nationalists and therefore allies of the nationalist Right even though their nationalism is not orthodox nationalism. Jordan Peterson and George Soros are both globalists who are self-avowed enemies of nationalism. Richard Spencer and Andrew Anglin are left-wing racial imperialists and therefore enemies of the Right and of nationalism. Ben Shapiro, Jonah Goldberg, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and a whole host of commentators both "liberal" and "conservative" are tribalists who are seeking to, at best, take advantage of, and at worst, destroy America and the West for the benefit of their particular tribes.

Just as there are Christian non-negotiables, there are nationalist non-negotiables. Anyone who subscribes to any variant of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's claim that "the contemporary U.S. belongs to all nations" is an enemy of America and the West, no matter how much they claim to love either of them. Our side is not against identity politics. Our side is against having to play identity politics in the first place, but once multiple and competing identities have been permitted to establish themselves in a polity, identity politics are the new reality and playing according to their well-established rules is an absolute necessity. Those who claim to be against identity politics at this point are nothing more than outdated and irrelevant posers.

Binary thinkers tend to have a serious problem recognizing that just because X criticizes the way Y is going about achieving his objectives, that does not mean that X is opposed to either Y or Y's objectives. For example, Lenin tried to fix the economic failures of communism with his New Economic Policy of 1922, which instituted "a free market and capitalism, both subject to state control while socialized state enterprises were to operate on a profit basis", but that did not make him either an enemy of communism or a capitalist ally.

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80 Comments:

Blogger Howard Stone June 05, 2018 8:07 AM  

Ben Shapiro is a bait and switch b!tch.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 05, 2018 8:11 AM  

They never punch left, of course the right never notices that since discredit, disqualify and delegitimazation is beneath the true intellectual conservatism. But they will punch right and therefor the normie cons are habituated to losing the moral level of conflict.

Blogger Dangeresque June 05, 2018 8:15 AM  

I love the "anti-identity politics" label. How does one become anti-inevitability? Is that like the unstoppable force hitting the immovable object?

Blogger VD June 05, 2018 8:18 AM  

I love the "anti-identity politics" label.

They might as well declare themselves to be "anti-gravity". It's just another way for the moderate to try to appear centrist and above it all.

Blogger The Kurgan June 05, 2018 8:19 AM  

This sort of clarification is (I am fast learning) often, very often in fact, absolutely necessary to at least attempt to bridge the 2SD IQ gap that, frankly, some of us are honestly quite surprised to even realise exists in some cases.

Blogger Lazarus June 05, 2018 8:26 AM  

Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Blogger tz June 05, 2018 8:32 AM  

You can disagree on the right without attacking. And you can agree while doing something that isn't merely not helping but is destructive like the cuckservatives who undermine those who are fighting and being effective and winning because they are rude and vulgar and not playing the game according to Marquis of Queensbury (that the left discarded a generation ago).

In WW2, the cucks would have dropped campaign leaflets saying Hitler should be un-elected or impeached, not bombs, while the buzz bombs were attacking London.

But as Vox noted, the goal is the most important and enemies keep moving the goalposts to the left - we need to repeal Gay Marriage and Abortion, but instead because of a technical error on the CCRC, we scored a goal 7-2 for a baker.

Peterson is saying put down that video game controller and clean your room and stad up straight - not join the fight for western civilization. We need you off the field doing busywork!.

Shapiro is the younger face of the NR NeverTrump practically undead vampires that feed on and render anemic the hope of the GOP base.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville June 05, 2018 8:37 AM  

I don't think it's just a 2SD IQ problem. We live in a society of pussies. Pussies want to excuse JP because he seems like such a nice man, and occasionally argues against something bad. Pussies get triggered, actually afraid, of seeing Kris Kobach riding in a parade on a jeep having a fake mounted machine gun.

The pussy is fearful. The words "scary", 'I'm afraid" are spoken everywhere. Trump scares the pussies because he is a daring man of action and not afraid to speak the truth.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 05, 2018 8:44 AM  

If Peterson occasionally argues against something bad, use it. Enemies can be useful. They are still enemies.

Blogger M. Bibliophile June 05, 2018 8:46 AM  

JBP is dangerous and an enemy because he, on the surface at least, seems fair. Delve a little, though, and that foul feeling erupts. He is the modern Pied Piper, who would lead us to a rectified globalism and the destruction of our souls. Want to see what kind of philosophical mess results of his brand of thinking?

Have a taste:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/06/waiting_for_the_next_religion.html

Blogger Daniel June 05, 2018 9:10 AM  

If a guideline for living your life has that much chaff, the chaff may be important to the purpose of the book.

One of the things ex-Scientologists frequently mention is that when they read Dianetics for the 1st time was that it had "some useful stuff" and some junk.

Because they are taught that "it isn't true if it is not true for you" by the Church itself, they thought it was cool: a buffet, a la carte religion. Your chaff may be my wheat, and vice versa.

But they all swallowed the bigger lie: let's keep following this interesting Hubbard chap deeper into his philosophy, and practice what works.

Blogger Zaklog the Great June 05, 2018 9:15 AM  

Ben Shapiro lost all serious respect from me when I saw his tweet, "I don't give a d--- about the browing of America" or something to that effect. As the father of two white boys, fuck you very much Shapiro. I do give a damn. And you have also betrayed that you don't care in the slightest about the principles you claim to champion because it is patently obvious that those principles are almost exclusively defended by white men.

I'll still listen to him once in a while if I run across him in something else I'm following, but I don't seek him out and I certainly don't consider him an ally.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 9:25 AM  

As far as I'm concerned, JPB lost me for sure when I found out about his close connection to the UN. I hate the UN. And the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

"Pussies want to excuse JP because he seems like such a nice man, and occasionally argues against something bad. "

If the pussies knew more about the UN and what its true purpose is they would be afraid of it and realize that anyone like JPB who actively supports it is up to no good, notwithstanding anything else about them.

JD needs to read "Cuckservative," if he's honest about wanting to know what's going on where false allies and poseurs are concerned, and the reasons why Milo, Mike and Alex are allies and Shapiro and Peterson are most definitely not. I'm almost done with it and while I was already sadly familiar with most of the historical parts having lived through them, the book is excellent for bringing the current situation we face today into sharp focus. If John Locke were alive today he would be spinning in his grave from seeing what the Progressive Marxoid Globalists have done to his Blank Slate idea. "Blank Slate" was a theory of epistemology, and not an assertion about the equality of human traits and abilities. Locke believed that baby birds weren't born knowing their songs but instead had to hear them and learn them and then practice them to get them right. Locke never implied that a crow or a jaybird could learn to sing like a meadowlark or a canary or a mourning dove, for crying out loud. It's no wonder we're so messed up seeing what stupid things people have been brainwashed to believe.

Blogger Phillip George June 05, 2018 9:37 AM  

100 years ago people were putting the dates of the building of buildings on those building. There was a sense that they were civilization projecting forward in time, men making a mark, leaving a legacy, building upon generations gone before them..

Now it's, "what profits can be made, where will we spend them, and can we get away with it?".

If Jesus isn't the "date on a building" A.D., Ano Domini, forget it.

The A.D. / C.E. schism is the best and biggest single datum error of all time pardon the pun. People are trying to use the same date, but expunging all it's cultural relevance, heritage, impetus.

JP is another in a long line up. They want Christian heritage, cultural accoutrements but can't acknowledge why. They want the light but can't acknowledge the source. They want the crown but can't acknowledge the supreme throne. They want to be princes but can defer to the Almighty.

Again, you got me thinking VD. Why this is the best blog in town.

Blogger Cecil Henry June 05, 2018 9:37 AM  

Here is the agenda of the Ben Shapiro's of this world:

(((Every. Single. Time.)))

Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-White.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/085ea5b1f46a0e8c88f73a3beab5b0b83a0bb4bae8e79a35ce9e54e640c0a39a.jpg

Blogger Matrick June 05, 2018 9:41 AM  

You're far too kind to Milo, Cernovich, etc. They are equally opposed to orthodox nationalism as any of the figures whom you oppose, if not more. Twisting nuances in favour of your friends doesn't change that.

Blogger VD June 05, 2018 9:45 AM  

They are equally opposed to orthodox nationalism as any of the figures whom you oppose, if not more.

That's simply false. I've discussed these subjects with them. Have you? Cerno even wrote the Foreword to Cuckservative.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 05, 2018 9:48 AM  

What convicts Peterson is the admonition that young men should not engage in saving the culture, the nation or the world, until their room is "perfectly clean".

Blogger Redpill Angel June 05, 2018 9:54 AM  

Once you realize the fundamental issue, that a war is going on between globalism and nationalism, all becomes clear. If it's a war, you need warriors, and VD understands that. After that, all you need is to figure out which nationality you are. I actually have more respect now, once I realized this fundamental issue, for other national struggles, although I can also see more clearly how national struggles can be used by globalists. Still learning.

Blogger Ledford Ledford June 05, 2018 9:58 AM  

Having thought briefly about it, I consider myself a civic nationalist in the mold of the authors of the 1924 Immigration Act. If you see that act as "un-American," you're not really on my team. You're also likely at war with reality, and that's a war you can fight without me.

Blogger Timmy3 June 05, 2018 10:08 AM  

I find this post useful. Whatever disagreements they have with the cultural left, it’s pretty minor for they have no solution. They are part of the problem.

Blogger CarpeOro June 05, 2018 10:15 AM  

@11
Recently watch a documentary series on Netflix called Wild, Wild, Country about the Indian cult that tried to setup in a remote part of Oregon. I get the same vibe from the pro-JP group that I got from the cult members interviewed in it - they focused on the part they liked and ignored the inherent contradictions and fundamental flaws (they had a hard time making the connection between their cult's underpinning beliefs and the actions that sprang from it).

Blogger Wynn Lloyd June 05, 2018 10:23 AM  

"You and your kids are totally wrong."

I laughed loudly at that. So many people would have dishonestly slinked their way into a response, but here the point is made immediately and without qualification.

That is the action of a man who 1) Know's he's right, and 2) Genuinely doesn't care how he's perceived by other people.
Getting to number 1 is a lot easier than number 2, for most of us. That's true freedom to speak your mind.

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 05, 2018 10:32 AM  

The author of the pro-JBP post is woefully ignorant of what JBP has actually said and believes. JBP has trashed nationalism, white identity, and pretty much anything that is counter to globalism/multiculturalism.

He's just like Sargon of Akkad - no matter what else he tries to call himself, he's basically a neoliberal who is absolutely fine with 95% of the neoliberal world order and just wants the 5% he doesn't like to go away. Just because he opposes SJWs and feminists (sometimes) doesn't mean he is on our side.

It really has started to make me consider the possibility that the entire "SJW" movement is kind of a red herring. Of course they are wrong and evil, but it occurs that perhaps globalists created the movement to act as a puppet enemy so that the enemies of globalism would focus on SJWs instead of them. Maybe it just turned out that way and globalists are just taking advantage of the opportunity.

But just opposing the craziest of people doesn't mean you're sane.

Blogger electricsheeple June 05, 2018 10:43 AM  

I would consider Anglin and Spencer closer to us then Civic Nationalists.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia June 05, 2018 10:48 AM  

Dangeresque wrote:I love the "anti-identity politics" label. How does one become anti-inevitability? Is that like the unstoppable force hitting the immovable object?

Best comment so far. THIS is the problem. The left, as more or less rulers of the current zeitgeist, follow the principle "identity politics for me, but not for thee."

Of course, Goldberg, Shapiro have a deep cognitive dissonance about this, railing as they do against issues of tribalism, when they belong to the tribe of all tribes. Now it's fine to belong to that tribe, as to belong to any other, but don't fuck with my tribe.

As for Peterson is concerned -- and I've been a mild defender of JP on this blog in the manner of the JD -- Vox has convinced me.

That's why the term "human race" is such a misnomer -- it's human RACES, plural. Races can come and go -- just read David Reich to see THAT reality -- but identity difference is a rock-bottom reality. No amount of "admixture" is going to change that for the forseeable future, and likely never.

The challenge is to navigate those differences in such as way as to avoid chaos. But not accepting this reality is absolutely delusional.

Blogger IAM Spartacus June 05, 2018 10:53 AM  

To be fair it was this realization (after finding out JP's ties to the UN) that I realized he's a globalist not a nationalist. It is an understandable error. It doesn't mean you cannot work with him on those things that are in common. But it does mean you always watch your back and it doesn't mean we give him money. Just means you both walk the same street from time to time.

JP and Benny cannot be trusted with my interests even if they may be like minded some times. Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell are closer allies even though they would be more civic-nationalists.

Blogger Mister Excitement June 05, 2018 10:54 AM  

One of the newer members of the Fake Opposition I've noticed lately is Candace Owens.

This girl came from out of nowhere and now she's getting her picture taken with Trump and is on cable news as a contributor.

Check her Twitter, it's hilarious.

"Stop the Identity Politics!" followed by a dozens tweets about "Black People!"

Once you learn that Fake Opposition actually exists and how it works, you can never go back to believing or trusting any of this BS.



Blogger VD June 05, 2018 10:54 AM  

I would consider Anglin and Spencer closer to us then Civic Nationalists.

They are not. Not in any way, shape, or form. I have spoken with Spencer at length about this. Civic nationalists only deny the American nation, they do not deny the European nations. Anglin and Spencer are white imperialists, they are not nationalists at all.

Blogger R Webfoot June 05, 2018 10:56 AM  

"Trump scares the pussies because he is a daring man of action and not afraid to speak the truth."

Trump scares the pussies because if they approve of anything Trump does, their liberal friends will yell at them. They haven't figured out that their willingness to censor what they say for that reason is WHY crazy people yell at them, and that the obvious solution is to cut crazy people out of their lives.

Blogger Mo Cato June 05, 2018 11:05 AM  

A globalist, an imperialist, or a tribalist who seeks the destruction of the West or any Western nation is an enemy

What is the definition of nation you use? Is for example Austria a separate Nation or part of the German Nation and the Austrian tribe just happen to be part of a separate state?
Is a construct like Belgium a Nation? Or even a single city like Luxembourg?
Is Italia more than one Nation, when the Lega wanted (wants I don't know) a free Padania or did they seek to destroy a Nation for the interests of the northern tribes?
Is it Imperialist if France wants to keep western Germany or is it imperialist, if Germany wants Alsace-Lorraine back?

Blogger L' Aristokrato June 05, 2018 11:06 AM  

This is a macro vs micro issue, or rather a case where the final product is lesser than the sum of its parts.

It is not hard to watch videos of Jordan Peterson, and others, and find much that is agreeable about what they say; But ultimately, in a broader scale, these people are just repackaging and reselling Cuckservatism, and all that comes and goes with it.
Peterson is the guy who's telling you to eat right, exercise regularly, get enough sleep, oh, and remember to chug that gallon of bleach at the end of the month...

Anyone who sill fails to recognize that identities exist, and matter, and that we should operate understanding that reality to reach better outcomes; As well as anyone who still fails to see how Nationalism is a rational expression of the above in the political, as well as geographical spheres, is, at this point, either ignorant, stupid, evil, lying, or any combination of the former.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 11:13 AM  

"Once you learn that Fake Opposition actually exists and how it works, you can never go back to believing or trusting any of this BS."
Never take anything at face value. Never believe what seems to be well publicized and promoted by mainstream sources. Don't just kick the tires and look under the hood; if you don't want to get repeatedly bamboozled and hoodwinked and hornswaggled and flim flammed, make sure you do a multi-point mechanical inspection. And never think that an issue or point is too small, everything no matter how seemingly insignificant can be crucial to understanding where someone is really coming from. Like the business of JPB writing position papers for the UN. An unsophisticated neophyte can brush that aside, but nobody with any experience with plastic banana phony baloney good time rock & role false poseur allies could fail to miss how important that is, especially when juxtaposed with all the other things about him that aren't right.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 11:18 AM  

"A globalist, an imperialist, or a tribalist who seeks the destruction of the West or any Western nation is an enemy"
What is the definition of nation you use? Is for example Austria a separate Nation or part of the German Nation and the Austrian tribe just happen to be part of a separate state?
Is a construct like Belgium a Nation? Or even a single city like Luxembourg?
Is Italia more than one Nation, when the Lega wanted (wants I don't know) a free Padania or did they seek to destroy a Nation for the interests of the northern tribes?
Is it Imperialist if France wants to keep western Germany or is it imperialist, if Germany wants Alsace-Lorraine back?"

There's obviously a difference between re-arranging the building blocks and smashing the blocks into smithereens and powderizing them. Germany and France fighting over Alsace-Lorraine is not an existential threat to Western Civilization. Muslims and non-Europeans invading Alsace-Lorraine IS an obvious threat and guarantees the ultimate destruction of Western Civilization. Capisce?

Blogger Mo Cato June 05, 2018 11:45 AM  

@34

There's obviously a difference between re-arranging the building blocks and smashing the blocks into smithereens and powderizing them.

Of course I understand the difference, therefore I see the problem with lumping Imperialism and Tribalism together with Globalism. Because if you don't argue every Nation has to accept the status quo it's becomes pretty hard to distinguish between some forms of Nationalism, Tribalism and Imperialism.

Blogger Matrick June 05, 2018 11:52 AM  

Civic nationalists in the UK most certainly do deny our nation. They can be summed up by UKIP and other, similar groups and figures. The same is true of the popular/successful nationalist parties in Europe.

Blogger Nate73 June 05, 2018 11:54 AM  

If Peterson is being supported by Soros and the globalists then it explains why these media shows keep having him on to humiliate them publicly over and over. After the Cathy Newman debate I was mystified why any of these journos would have someone on their show who would publicly take apart their ideology when their objective is all about de-platforming others and appearing confident and always right?

Blogger VD June 05, 2018 12:04 PM  

The same is true of the popular/successful nationalist parties in Europe.

It's really not. La Lega, True Finns, Schweizer VolksPartei, Alternativ fur Deutschland... none of them are civic nationalist.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 05, 2018 12:20 PM  

R Webfoot wrote:Trump scares the pussies because if they approve of anything Trump does, their liberal friends will yell at them. They haven't figured out that their willingness to censor what they say for that reason is WHY crazy people yell at them, and that the obvious solution is to cut crazy people out of their lives.

If crazies are not yelling at you, you are a crazy.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 12:22 PM  

"Because if you don't argue every Nation has to accept the status quo it's becomes pretty hard to distinguish between some forms of Nationalism, Tribalism and Imperialism"

There is no particular bright line other than that the demon infested Marxoid Globalists are wicked and their Satanic Brave New World Order is evil. Psalm 2 pretty much says that smaller is better, but the specific particulars are always a matter of negotiation. I find that I tend to support independence movements by default but oppose some when I don't like them. And sometimes I would like independence taken away. For example, I would love to see Somalia get taken over by Ethiopia and Kenya and anyone else who wants a piece of it. I hate Somalia. And I feel the same way about Scotland. If it's Scottish, it's crrrrap.

Blogger Dangeresque June 05, 2018 12:26 PM  

CarpeOro wrote:@11

Recently watch a documentary series on Netflix called Wild, Wild, Country about the Indian cult that tried to setup in a remote part of Oregon. I get the same vibe from the pro-JP group that I got from the cult members interviewed in it - they focused on the part they liked and ignored the inherent contradictions and fundamental flaws (they had a hard time making the connection between their cult's underpinning beliefs and the actions that sprang from it).


I saw that recently too! How great was that, seriously... Even if only for the schadenfreude of watching a bunch of lost baby boomer commies get wrecked by Heritage America and go crawling back to their mom's basement. Beyond that though, the whole thing was a microcosm of what is happening to the country still to this day. A must watch.

Blogger S'mon June 05, 2018 12:32 PM  

I'm not convinced JP is a committed Globalist, which is not to say he's a Nationalist either. Of course he is not an ally of the Alt-Right - he wants to save Classical Liberalism from itself in a Nietzschean act of transvaluation. I don't think this can work - my Classical Liberal gut is sympathetic, but my head says that ship has long sailed.

But the Left, the Progressive Left, does see this as a threat; they definitely hate and fear the Classical Liberalism that birthed them as Frankenstein's monster hated his creator. They hate the Alt-Right too, but their purported fear of 'Fascism' has a somewhat LARPy quality, and is usually used to attack Clasical Liberals and liberally inclined civic nationalism.

Blogger VD June 05, 2018 12:50 PM  

I'm not convinced JP is a committed Globalist, which is not to say he's a Nationalist either.

That's because you haven't read Maps of Meaning and you haven't read Resilient People, Resilient Planet: A future worth choosing. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This is not the right place to opine in ignorance.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 1:07 PM  

"But the Left, the Progressive Left, does see this as a threat; they definitely hate and fear the Classical Liberalism that birthed them as Frankenstein's monster hated his creator."

The "Left" is only a means to an end for the Globalists. It's not really about the Marxoid Progressives such as a normal human being would look at it. It's all about control. It's all about manipulating people to accept being controlled by the Globalists. They use every means, economic, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, biological, whatever, to advance their agenda of conquest. Their best most useful tool is Leftist Progressive Marxism, but it is not about it or them. If an element that appears Anti-Leftist is useful to the Globalists, they will not hesitate to employ it, or I should say deploy it as a weapon. This is why you can't always trust apparent anti-Globalists either, because the Globalists are clever enough to make use of them too, if their anti-Globalism is off somehow. Like say for example an anti-Globalist Leftist, which by definition would have to be an oxy-moron.

Blogger Resident Moron™ June 05, 2018 1:09 PM  

”What makes Peterson our enemy?

He’s shooting at you.

Idiot.

Blogger dienw June 05, 2018 2:31 PM  

Peterson offers three things which attract followers:
1. A secular religion: If there is no God, what replaces him: Man writ large; Jung spent his life answering Nietzsche's question, "We have killed God. How shall we replace him?"
Thus, how shall we behave in this materialist world? Psychology shall guide you.
2. Worldly wisdom: How shall we behave for our well being and how shall we prosper in this world: men have always asked these questions; in the Renaissance there was Baldassare Castiglione's "Art of the Courtier;" more recently there was ."
The Art of Worldly Wisdom" by Baltasar Gracián
; and most recently, we have all the pick up artist books and blogs.

Number one is spiritual poison ; but elixir for the ungodly. Number two is useful in this world as it helps one maneuver one's way through the world to attain prosperity; but, it is not as useful for the Christian whose goal is on the heavenly City.

3. Globalism: flows naturally from the Religion of Man; in fact, it can be considered the oldest religion: it is Babylonianism in its first and desired last form; the ungodly have always desired some form of it: as an empire as per Nimrod the mighty hunter or as high Priest Nimrod the god/man: Pharaoh is both man and pontifex maximus (Latin, "greatest priest")and god; so did Caesar become worshiped as a god and even took the title pontifex maximus.

Number three fulfills the desires of ungodly men and those who would serviley follow after them. The latter persons are lured in by the first two attractions.















Blogger Pierre Truc June 05, 2018 3:45 PM  

If What matters most about JP isn't what he says, it is what he doesn't day.

Blogger Garuna June 05, 2018 3:54 PM  

Watch for people's reaction to things like:

Trump's rise
Milo's fall
Charlottesville "very fine people" controversy
Kanye revealing he's pro-Trump
Roseanne's cancellation

It will tell you who is an ally, who is truly neutral, and who is an enemy.

Shapiro repeatedly tries to damage the careers of his right-wing rivals even if it damages the right as a whole. Peterson always throws people under the bus to protect his status. Both seek liberal validation and act based on opinion standards set by liberals. Both are false allies. None will lead us to victory.

Richard Spencer and Andrew Anglin too are more interested in self-promotion and taking down rivals than helping the right win. Attention whores.

Scott Adams, though he is a liberal and a deluded civic nationalist, I never see him saying things he clearly doesn't believe. He often sticks his neck out to defend people that'll get him in trouble. Doesn't try to protect his status or seek attention at all costs. True neutral.

Trump, Milo, Cernovich, Posobiec, Molyneux, Alex Jones, and others in their circles will usually try to do all that they can to help the right-wing and its allies win. True allies.

Blogger Garuna June 05, 2018 3:58 PM  

CONTD.

Peterson and Shapiro also often lie to take down their rivals or protect their status.

Shapiro pretended that there were no neutral pro-monument people at Charlottesville to smear Trump. He also pushed the Michelle Fields hoax to damage Trump. Provably false.

Peterson pretended Faith Goldy was interviewing Alt-Right instead of being interviewed by them. Peterson deliberately lied about the JQ and virtue signaled against everyone correcting him defaulting to the "rayciss, sexiss" meme. Both provably false.

This also is an indicator that they are false allies. And will ultimately backstab us.

Blogger S'mon June 05, 2018 4:01 PM  

VD:
"That's because you haven't read Maps of Meaning and you haven't read Resilient People, Resilient Planet: A future worth choosing. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This is not the right place to opine in ignorance."

Do you have some killer quotes?

Blogger S'mon June 05, 2018 4:09 PM  

@44:
"The "Left" is only a means to an end for the Globalists. It's not really about the Marxoid Progressives such as a normal human being would look at it. It's all about control. It's all about manipulating people to accept being controlled by the Globalists. They use every means, economic, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, biological, whatever, to advance their agenda of conquest. Their best most useful tool is Leftist Progressive Marxism, but it is not about it or them. If an element that appears Anti-Leftist is useful to the Globalists, they will not hesitate to employ it, or I should say deploy it as a weapon."

I noticed that. In the Ukraine the Globalists use actual Neo-Nazis to fight the Russian ethno-national separatists. In Syria they support the Communist Kurds, and they help various Antifa groups go out and help the Kurds fight ISIS/Daesh, and now the Turks. But they've also supported ISIS and Al Qaeda against the Syrian government, and various Islamist groups - alternately supporting and opposing the Muslim Brotherhood, for instance. In the West it's "anti-Semitic" to be anti-Israel, yet within Israel the nationalist government is an enemy of the globalists, Netanyahu seems to hate Soros and like Hungary & the Visegrad nationalists, even Russia. And so on.

Blogger Stephen Notman June 05, 2018 4:21 PM  

I've been reading this blog daily since around the time you published The Irrational Atheist. And yet I think this is one of your best posts. Im glad you back up all your data because this one is platinum in a field of gold.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 4:34 PM  

"I noticed that. In the Ukraine the Globalists use actual Neo-Nazis to fight the Russian ethno-national separatists. In Syria they support the Communist Kurds, and they help various Antifa groups go out and help the Kurds fight ISIS/Daesh, and now the Turks. But they've also supported ISIS and Al Qaeda against the Syrian government, and various Islamist groups - alternately supporting and opposing the Muslim Brotherhood, for instance. In the West it's "anti-Semitic" to be anti-Israel, yet within Israel the nationalist government is an enemy of the globalists, Netanyahu seems to hate Soros and like Hungary & the Visegrad nationalists, even Russia. And so on."
When you lay it out like that, which is only the tip of the ice berg, it's obvious why normies can't wrap their heads around it. I can't grasp the whole thing either, all I know is that the head at the center of the octopus is my target. Anything global has to be assumed to be Global. Anything mainstream or deemed acceptable by polite society has to be at least suspect. If the UN or a multi-national corporation or an international organization like the Boy Scouts...er, I mean, The Scouts, supports something we need to reject it.

Blogger IAM Spartacus June 05, 2018 5:26 PM  

S'mon wrote:VD:

"That's because you haven't read Maps of Meaning and you haven't read Resilient People, Resilient Planet: A future worth choosing. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This is not the right place to opine in ignorance."

Do you have some killer quotes?


S'mor are you new? Vox has spent over a month going through all this JP sturff and posting about it. But hey I will help you out.

Blogger S'mon June 05, 2018 6:03 PM  

@54 - I've been following closely (I think) - but I've not seen anything specific about Globalism. I know Peterson rewrote the underlying narrative on a UN report - to make it less Marxist, as far as I can tell - but I'm not aware of him making any specific statements... Oh, I do recall Vox discussing JP's fear of nuclear war and his seeing nationalism as a threat in that context.

Blogger S'mon June 05, 2018 6:13 PM  

@53:
"When you lay it out like that, which is only the tip of the ice berg, it's obvious why normies can't wrap their heads around it. I can't grasp the whole thing either, all I know is that the head at the center of the octopus is my target."

The CIA seems to have been committed to One World Government since its inception during WW2. The US State Department is another major node. The Soros (and many other) NGO networks give them a lot of flexibility in how they operate.

Blogger tublecane June 05, 2018 6:42 PM  

@3- We talk much of "virtue signalling," and this is part of that. It's basically a case of "please don't call me racist," because only approved identities are allowed to exist.

Or, if you're a parentheses-American, it's to keep people from crowding out their action.

But on another level, all sorts of signalling goes on. We live in a world of constant deception, where the old language is either misunderstood or too clear for most people's purposes. So they talk in codes. "Identity" is negative if you're white. Just like "authority" is a bad thing if you're Trump.

Blogger Alphaeus June 05, 2018 6:48 PM  

"I know Peterson rewrote the underlying narrative on a UN report - to make it less Marxist, as far as I can tell "
To make it SEEM less Marxist, perhaps. Which is what VD is talking about when he says that the guy is trying to "fix" Leftism and Globalism and/or make it more palatable and marketable.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 05, 2018 6:52 PM  

Imperialism and nationalism. Too many people think are the same, or that they are connected. History has shown imperialism to be damaging. United Kingdom for example.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf June 05, 2018 7:51 PM  

I was thinking of the ancient Greek Academy's the other day. Their did their best, but their Civilization collapsed regardless. Was it a cultural failing (silk slippers)? Or (/ and) perhaps more importantly was the ability for advanced civil states to immediately begin to undergo a process of dysgenesis? It may be much more rapid and with much greater effect than we appreciate. I even wonder if there's a genetic disposition to desire new genes that could be driving our current abhorrent behaviours vis a vie population replacement. The fact is, half-caste are generally more healthy.

Something to consider.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants June 05, 2018 8:00 PM  

Maybe watching a lefty atheist deconstruct Dr. Jordy Peterson's position on Christianity would help to give these still clinging to Jordanetics have yet another view of how stupid the things he says really are. Of course, being an atheist, this dude doesn't believe in God, but even he seems to understand the basic principles of why one is a Christian better than Dr. Jordy. If this person can't see how full of BS Dr. Jordy is after having it explained to them by an intelligent Christian, perhaps seeing him critiqued by the atheist will provide a different perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkwT35uJv4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDXHlOnKmdI

As for the person who wrote the letter, if they are such a fan of Vox's work, HOW DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT IDENTITY POLITICS ARE INEVITABLE???
I'm not even getting into the discussion of how anyone that's not a low IQ leftist, warmongering NeoCon, thinks that BEN SHAPIRO is remotely on "our side." Vox has been forced to beat that dead horse so often in order to explain it to the slow to catch on crowd, that there's nothing left but tails and hooves.

Blogger tublecane June 06, 2018 12:13 AM  

@61- "HOW DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT IDENTITY POLITICS ARE INEVITABLE?"

Assuming they're not simply lying about them, aren't grossly ignorant, and don't have some sort of psychological stumbling block, I presume it's because they're too complacent.

People are capable of chucking out set beliefs when faced with necessity or, short of that, convincing evidence against them. Some never do. Speaking as a former race-denier and colorblindness advocate, it requires a jolt. (My jolt was a combination of Trayvon Martin and Jared Taylor.

Most haven't been jolted yet. They will be.

Blogger Unknown June 06, 2018 12:54 AM  

Milo and Cernovitch are not allies of the Right. Milo never supported GamerGate until it became fashionable; he was even an SJW. His past involving support for pederasty is worthy of mention, even though people have completely forgotten it. He and Cernovitch are both Jews, and ideological snakes.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 06, 2018 1:04 AM  

@Unknown,
We are men of ideas. Lies do not become us.

Blogger S'mon June 06, 2018 3:15 AM  

@58 I watched a long video recently of Peterson discussing with Steven Pinker. They seemed pretty similar ideologically, both are classical liberals who historically would have been considered on the left, until the centre was dragged so far left that Rawls and Mill look almost right-wing.

Certainly neither are nationalists; they may have a weak commitment to globalism but I don't think it's something they're currently losing sleep over.

The main differences between them: Pinker is Jewish and hostile to Christianity, but considers himself an empiricist, while Peterson (a) thinks Christianity has moral value and (b) has much less concern with empirical reality, which in hindsight makes his stand over gender pronouns odd - but I guess he correctly sees that transgenderism is 'untruth' in his Darwinian moral sense of being anti-survival.

Blogger tublecane June 06, 2018 6:24 AM  

@65- Yes, and both are Canadians who taught at Harvard. Both actually are leftists, and place themselves there. They only get confused for anything else because they're relatively honest and Notice things.

Big difference: Pinker is an orderly thinker who writes well and can be understood.

Blogger S'mon June 06, 2018 6:44 AM  

@66 Yup, agreed. Pinker is an impressive thinker. Peterson is an impressive rhetorician.

Blogger S'mon June 06, 2018 6:54 AM  

@60 "the ability for advanced civil states to immediately begin to undergo a process of dysgenesis?"

Good times breed weak men.
It seems pretty clear that any welfare state system is going to be dysgenic, it favours rabbits over foxes. Possibly any Civilisation that establishes peace and order - Pax Romana, Pax Britannica - is likely to be dysgenic.
But on the facts this doesn't really seem likely to be a big factor in Greek decline after the 5th & 4th centuries BC. Greece seemed already past its golden age prior to Roman conquest in the 2nd century BC - although Archimedes of Syracuse might disagree. :)

Blogger tz June 06, 2018 7:01 AM  

Someone Documented Benji v. Owen which demonstrates why Benji is not on our side.

Blogger Ilo Stabet June 06, 2018 7:48 AM  

I agree with the assessments of JP and Shapiro. However, it makes no sense to defend sound Christianity and side with an unrepentant sodomite like Milo. To me the question of his being jewish and 'married' to a black guy are beside the point. If he was not jewish and 'married' to a white guy, it would be the same. You cannot trust sodomites. They are mentally ill, abuse victims trying to relive their abuse and they have nothing of value to teach normal people, and especially Christians - and so much more when they are incredibly unrepentant and display all the worse aspects of the sodomite 'deathstyle' as Milo does. The Bible, and Church Tradition, are very explicit on what sodomites are, and how we should treat them. Help them if they want to repent, but they almost never do. As S. Paul clearly states, they have those unnatural urges because God has given up on them. And God has given up on them because they themselves have given up on Him. JP and Shapiro may be controlled opposition, or they may be just basic-bitch conservatism/classical liberalism. Regardless, they still have enough sense and self-respect to use their bodies as God intended, something that Milo clearly does not, something of which he is proud and does not wish to reverse.

Blogger Alphaeus June 06, 2018 10:08 AM  

"You cannot trust sodomites. They are mentally ill, abuse victims trying to relive their abuse"

By posting comments here you are by implication soliciting opinions in response, so, you can't say you didn't ask for my opinion, and therefore I will honor you with it:

I think homosexuals are at the very least neurotic, while I think of the transgenders as fully blown psychotics. Though I'm not one of those who psychologizes sin, I do think that psychology can help describe the mental and emotional dynamics at work when considering the actual concrete expression of various sins in a specific persons behavior.

You are correct, history shows that sodomites cannot be trusted. A lot has been written about sodomites getting caught up in British-Soviet spy scandals during the Cold War for example.

But that doesn't mean that Milo has to be treated as a political enemy. As they say, politics makes for very strange bedfellows. At this point he's only a commentator, not a public official or a functional leader with discreet and sensitive responsibilities. And I think it was actually helpful that he let slip some truth about what being a young sodomite is really like, how it is standard practice for them to do the things that he was talking about. If our enemies attack him for being a sodomite, aren't they admitting that there has to be something wrong with that?
If Milo was an alcoholic, we would not hire him to be our chauffeur, unless we're stupid, but we would not necessarily reject him as a friend otherwise, but it would be a matter of the entire context and situation with him that controlled our relationship with him.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 06, 2018 6:50 PM  

Ilo Stabet wrote:However, it makes no sense to defend sound Christianity and side with an unrepentant sodomite like Milo. To me the question of his being jewish and 'married' to a black guy are beside the point. If he was not jewish and 'married' to a white guy, it would be the same. You cannot trust sodomites.
You wann know who you can't trust?

Conservatives. They will absolutely turn on you. Every. single. time.

Know who else you can't trust?

Moderates.
They will extract their price, and then tell you they were never on your side. Every. Single. Time.


I'd trust Milo. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated your untrustworthiness

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 06, 2018 11:41 PM  

@KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia

That's why the term "human race" is such a misnomer -- it's human RACES, plural.

Yes. This is an important rhetorical point. Use of the phrase "the human race" implicitly denies the biological reality of race. "Human species" is considerably more accurate.

Remember, there's only one breed; the canine breed!

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 07, 2018 12:33 AM  

@tublecane

Pinker is an orderly thinker who writes well and can be understood.

Exactly. Pinker is not on our side, but The Blank Slate is worth reading nonetheless.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey June 07, 2018 12:50 AM  

@Meng Greenleaf

Or (/ and) perhaps more importantly was the ability for advanced civil states to immediately begin to undergo a process of dysgenesis?
The fact is, half-caste are generally more healthy.

Looks like you're conflating 2 very different concepts here:

1. Dysgenic effects of civilization/ prosperity reflected in increasing genetic load (something that, if it is present/ ongoing, there is no easy solution for)

2. A simplistic misapplication of the often-misunderstood concept of "hybrid vigor." No major human population is genetically homogeneous enough for hybrid vigor to really be an applicable concept. Your assertion about the health of "half-castes" is flat-out wrong, btw. Just look at some of the literature on the mental health of mixed race children.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf June 07, 2018 7:35 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:
Looks like you're conflating 2 very different concepts here:

1. Dysgenic effects of civilization/ prosperity reflected in increasing genetic load (something that, if it is present/ ongoing, there is no easy solution for)
I agree, I was conflating two different concepts and you are correct in delineating the two. Also, I am not a geneticist. Though I do have an advanced qualification in developmental neurochemistry. Thus, I may not be qualified to read the literature objectively. I could possibly read some reviews.

It seems reasonable to hypothesize that dysgenics occurs in and due to the social 'support structures' (for lack of a better descriptor) available in relatively advanced societies (including ours). Yet, not advanced enough to deal with those dysgenic factors. Though, this may and probably will change - and I think sooner rather than later.

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:

2. A simplistic misapplication of the often-misunderstood concept of "hybrid vigor." No major human population is genetically homogeneous enough for hybrid vigor to really be an applicable concept. Your assertion about the health of "half-castes" is flat-out wrong, btw. Just look at some of the literature on the mental health of mixed race children.
I will have to look into the research. That said, I should qualify that statement. Not all combinations of mixed race children. As I understand (and again, perhaps I am dead wrong) Portugal, for example, has a population that is 'mixed' (European and ex-African slaves) and due to that mixing, has the lowest average IQ in Europe and the correlating economic output to match.

I'm sure we can agree that were modern Portuguese the decedents of mix Chinese heritage, this would probably not be the case. Of course, this isn't to say that this would be better or worse, only different (probably better though).

Again, I cannot say definitely if this is the case with Portugal, I only use it as an example (and it very may well be possible it is good evidence).


I was thinking this morning about Eastern Europe, Kazakhstan and Russia. To a degree they are mixed European and E. Asian. To a degree. Yet, for whatever reason, they haven't built the sort of Empires the Europeans or Chinese built. Perhaps that's a result of geography more so than genetics. Or, maybe they're just too average? Or something else.



Oh, I also had another idea this morning. I also had an interesting meme but forgot it. Darn. Anyway, what would have happened to the Mouse Utopia experiment, had they introduced a mass influx of new mice, just as the Utopian colony was collapsing? My guess is, it would have resulted in their replacement. Then, imagine if we took away the endless food and water. This seems like a good extension of those experiments. And I want to know what happens.

Blogger Ilo Stabet June 10, 2018 8:42 AM  

@ Alphaeus

I agree with you for the most part. I would still not be friends with an unrepentant sodomite. I have met a couple of people who have experienced same sex attraction at Church, but they are trying to correct it. Milo is not doing that. I also don't know about his effectiveness in showing the degeneracy. You cannot reason with most leftists (or conservatives/libertarians) on morality issues. Their stance is 'do what thou wilt' (as long as it doesn't 'hurt' anybody). They don't think personal conduct matters at all. And yes, he is only a journalist (or whatever) but I think it's bad policy to give people like him any credence.

@ Snidely Whiplash

Given what 'conservatism' means today, I am not one and I am disgusted of their weakness. They are simply 'conserving' the leftism of the previous decade. In ten years they will saying 'democrats are the real pedophobes' and other such nonsense. They have no principles, and I agree you shouldn't trust them. It's funny that Milo himself is one of these conservatives (or 'civic nationalists'), who thinks it's fine to import black people in massive amounts just as long as they are not muslim (because, you know, muslims actually have standards and wouldn't tolerate his degeneracy). He likes black people so much he actually 'married' one. So I don't know what you are on about.

And I am certainly not a moderate in any sense. God dislikes lukewarmness (Revelation 3:15-16). I normally use the term traditionalist to describe my views, but some people who also describe themselves this way have called me 'too radical'.

You don't have to trust me. Trust God, trust His Word. He is very clear on what sodomites are, and why you shouldn't trust them.

Blogger Alphaeus June 10, 2018 11:06 AM  

"They don't think personal conduct matters at all. And yes, he is only a journalist (or whatever) but I think it's bad policy to give people like him any credence."

I have no idea where to draw the line about caring about the personal conduct of others. It's something that demands an honest conversation apart from posturing and virtue signaling. I can see how caring too much about the sins of our political allies is counterproductive politically, but neither can I accept a wide open anything goes attitude, either.

I disapprove of sodomy for spiritual, religious, social, psychological, and biomedical reasons.
But if in our modern milieu a sodomite is willing to support my right to believe the way I want and take sides against my political enemies who want to oppress me, then, well, can I afford to eschew such an ally, considering how political allies can be hard to come by?

There's a reason they coined the phrase, that politics makes strange bedfellows. They didn't realize it would come to mean literal strange bedfellows.

Blogger Ilo Stabet June 10, 2018 7:29 PM  

That last line made me chuckle, I admit. And I definitely see your point. I guess my problem is that people tend to be all in all the time. And I've seen so much Milo worship, so much 'democrats are the real homophobes', and so on, that I have my worries about how effective it really is and how easily the attitude you espoused (which I think is reasonable) can turn in normal people towards 'gays are actually our allies' (which I have seen time and time again). And of course, this happens with all sorts of people, not just sodomites: it happens with 'based blacks' and 'based trad thots' etc. But again, at least these other guys have their head screwed on enough to utilize their bodies in the way God intended.

In any case, I appreciate that it is possible to have a decent and reasonable conversation about this. Usually it's very polarizing, as that other commenter showed.

Blogger Alphaeus June 10, 2018 7:57 PM  

If Milo wants to play conservative lumberjack and he holds up his end of the log and shows some loyalty, I'll accept him on that basis as far as it goes. If he wants to play Scoutmaster, though, not so much. As it were, so to speak.

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