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Thursday, July 19, 2018

A sound model

Israel defines itself as a nation.
The Israeli Knesset has approved the 'nation-state bill' that promotes Jewish-only settlements, downgrades Arab language status and limits the right to self-determination to Jews. Arab MPs chided the law as racist.

The bill, which has the status of a basic law (approximately the same as a constitutional law in countries with a written constitution), was passed overnight to Thursday with 62 votes in favor and 55 against after hours of fierce argument and debate. It will now come into force as soon as it's published in the Knesset's Official Gazette.

The law, which had been in the works since 2011, has sparked a wave of protests, which spilled over the Israeli border and angered the influential Jewish diaspora in the US.

The bill formally defines the main principles that should stand at the core of the Israeli state and its symbols, such as the flag, the anthem, its capital and language. In a clause that set Arab lawmakers off, the bill explicitly states that "the right to exercises national determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

The critics of the bill argue that such wording makes some 1.8 million Israeli Arabs, a quarter of the population, second-class citizens.

Another contentious clause strips the Arabic language of its official status, instead granting it "a special status" and leaving Hebrew as the only official state language. Although the bill specifically points out that "this clause does not harm the status given to the Arabic language before this law came into effect," its opponents have been up in arms over the wording change.

At the center of the controversy is the part of the law aimed at promoting the "establishment and consolidation" of Jewish settlements, which is being castigated by the opposition as a shorthand for segregation bordering on apartheid.

The divisive nature of the new legislation that saw thousands of people, including Arabs and secular Jews flocking to streets in protest, has not stopped Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from hailing its adoption as a huge success.

"With this law we determined the founding principle of our existence. Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people, and respects the rights of all of its citizens," Netanyahu said, as cited by Haaretz.
What a pity the United States of America doesn't have anything that defines the founding principle of its existence. Wait a minute....

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. 

The reason the "influential Jewish diaspora" is angered by this perfectly sensible law is because with one fell swoop, the nationalists in Israel have just underlined the case for the nations in the West that the diasporans have been trying to adulterate and dispossess for the last fifty years. Given that Netanhayu is an intelligent man who has been openly telling Jews around the world that it is time to move to Israel, it's very unlikely that he is unaware of this.

It's the right model. Respect the basic rights of all the paperwork citizens, but don't permit the non-nationals have any significant say in how the nation is governed or pretend that they are part of the nation proper. The US and the European nations should follow suit, and eventually, they will. The universalist age is at an end.

The Israeli Arabs shouldn't get too upset. After all, the lunatics of San Francisco will be happy to let them vote there should they feel the need.
San Francisco began registering non-citizens, including undocumented immigrants, to register to vote Monday in the November election for the city school board, reported The San Francisco Chronicle.

The move follows passage of a 2016 ballot measure by San Francisco voters opening school elections to non-citizens who are over the age of 18, city residents and have children under age 19, reported the publication.

“This is no-brainer legislation,” Hillary Ronen, a San Francisco supervisor, told the Chronicle. “Why would we not want our parents invested in the education of their children?”

“We want to give immigrants the right to vote,” Norman Yee, also a county supervisor, told KGO.
Immigrants, the children of immigrants, the grand-children of immigrants, and the great-grandchildren of immigrants should never be given the right to vote on anything. No one forced them to immigrate, and they always vote to change - and usually to ruin - the societies into which they have immigrated.

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111 Comments:

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2018 4:16 AM  

Nice move

Blogger L' Aristokrato July 19, 2018 4:27 AM  

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Surely the Founding Fathers had Papua New Guinea, and the Bantu in mind when they crafted this. Obviously "ourselves and our posterity" translates to "everyone in the Third World", in today's lingo.

Blogger S. Thermite July 19, 2018 4:40 AM  

It’s high time for the Arab nations around Israel to welcome and restore citizenship to any “Israeli” Arabs who are willing to leave. If my grasp of the regions history is correct, there are no “Palestininian” Arabs in the occupied territories- only Jordanians, Syrians, and Egyptians who were somehow allowed to stay on the lands their nations lost after trying to wipe out Israel. Would make more sense to call them Ottomans than Palestinians. If their former Arab countrymen won’t accept them why should Israel? They need to go back!

Blogger Rocklea Marina July 19, 2018 4:45 AM  

Hello fellow "Jewish" people.

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. July 19, 2018 4:58 AM  

The Dread Ilk have already decided that in the new US the right to vote will be restricted to married landowning Christian men who've fathered at least one child and veterans.

Blogger weka July 19, 2018 5:02 AM  

In the British Imperium voting shall be restricted to communicant hard of taxpaying household, in the Established church, who have served before the colours.

It worked for Victoria.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 5:04 AM  

and veterans

Bad idea. See: Rome.

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. July 19, 2018 5:05 AM  

God and country

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. July 19, 2018 5:07 AM  

Yes. No foreign soldiers.

Blogger Rick July 19, 2018 5:09 AM  

I’d have no problem with this model if I were a non-national, paperwork citizen. I might even prefer it. Would free up a lot of time by not having to follow politics — I can’t vote anyway, and better still, neither can my fellow numbskull non-nationals.
Where do I sign.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 5:43 AM  

Good for the Israelis. Let them choose to favor their own nation. And what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Let us choose to do the same. Starting first by disenfranchising a number of people who should never have had the vote in the first place.

1) Non-citizens (who were never supposed to have a vote on anything anyway.)
2) Felons
3) Women
4) Anyone who is a net beneficiary of taxes from the public treasury rather than a net contributor: Welfare, SS beneficiaries, government employees, etc.


Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 5:49 AM  

Oh, one other category should have no voting rights: Individuals who do not have at least one traceable ancestor who was voluntarily within the 13 Colonies before the Revolutionary War. That would eliminate a lot of the johnny-come-latelies.

Blogger Shimshon July 19, 2018 6:03 AM  

@12 Sherwood, it would not eliminate enough. While such a standard would exclude me, it would include my offspring and my nephews and nieces via my wife, all of whom live in Israel, as my father in law qualifies. Perhaps require baptism too?

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 19, 2018 6:18 AM  

3) Women
4) Anyone who is a net beneficiary of taxes from the public treasury


Bit of redundancy there ...

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 19, 2018 6:23 AM  

angered the influential Jewish diaspora in the US.

I’m sure it did, seeing it’s the exact opposite of what they’ve been doing to the rest of the world for at least fifty years. Soros will live to see his failure, perhaps the only outcome more satisfying than him hanging from a Hungarian lamppost

Blogger The Observer July 19, 2018 6:27 AM  

Any sort of restrictions on voting always fall to the fact that the system itself incentivises expanding the voter rolls with people who already agree with you, instead of winning over others or sorting out issues. Starting with white male landowners of good character - an aristocracy without explicitly calling it an aristocracy - a mere ten generations have sufficed to produce people who think that everyone in the world should be able to vote in US elections.

Merely rolling back the wheel and hoping things won't work out the same way they always have isn't going to solve anything - there will always be edge cases, clever reinterpretations, emotional tear-jerkers, and short-sighted sycophants to join the deliberate destroyers in expanding the franchise.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 19, 2018 6:37 AM  

a mere ten generations have sufficed to produce people who think that everyone in the world should be able to vote in US elections.

Except, for some reason, Russians ....

Blogger Amy July 19, 2018 6:57 AM  

Huh. I thought they were against foreign interference in elections?

Will wonders never cease.

Blogger Rick July 19, 2018 6:58 AM  

Fantasies are fun, all for it. But they don’t accomplish anything but kill time. What’s the point if it’s not possible. That’s playtime.
I’m willing to accept a model which stops adding any more new voters. Say, holding a green card and say already 5-10 years into the process of becoming a citizen. That process was a contract. And I’m for honoring contracts.
Other than that, no more new voters, unless you’re born of a voter. We might survive with that as a minimum.
But if the current voters vote differently, or more strictly, well, themes the rules.

Blogger Man of the Atom July 19, 2018 7:06 AM  

“This is no-brainer legislation,” Hillary Ronen, a San Francisco supervisor, told the Chronicle.

Any time a SJW says "no-brainer", one knows that absolutely no brains were used in the decision. Only feelz.

Blogger Shane Sullivan July 19, 2018 7:14 AM  

@16 Would you advise switching to an autocratic system?

Blogger Skyler the Weird July 19, 2018 7:25 AM  

Someone make sure Putin gets some absentee ballots.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 7:26 AM  

Has anyone done a "born American in Russia, natural conservative Vladimir Putin" meme yet?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 7:27 AM  

"Fantasies are fun, all for it. But they don’t accomplish anything but kill time. What’s the point if it’s not possible."

That's the lamest and most common excuse for procrastination that I've ever heard.

"Waaaaah it won't be done in 15 seconds so there's no point even trying, WAAAAAAAAH!"

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 7:29 AM  

That process was a contract. And I’m for honoring contracts.

Clearly not! The Constitution was more than a contract, it was a compact and it has precedence.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 7:31 AM  

Merely rolling back the wheel and hoping things won't work out the same way they always have isn't going to solve anything - there will always be edge cases, clever reinterpretations, emotional tear-jerkers, and short-sighted sycophants to join the deliberate destroyers in expanding the franchise.

Then make suggesting any expansion to the franchise a capital offense. Easily solved!

Blogger Rex Little July 19, 2018 7:38 AM  

they always vote to change - and usually to ruin - the societies into which they have immigrated.

To be fair, nearly every candidate for office claims they'll change society one way or another, so you're in effect voting to do that no matter how many of your ancestors came over on the Mayflower.

Blogger Michael Kingswood July 19, 2018 7:38 AM  

"2) Felons"

There are felons and then there are felons. A guy who crossed the line once and then reformed himself, or who got caught up in a bureaucratic violation such as having a little two much of some arbitrary substance that the government doesn't like on him, is much different from a career criminal.

I know a guy with a vehicular manslaughter conviction because he hit black ice on the road while driving home from a night out with his friends, hit another car, and blew 0.09. He shouldn't have been driving but the 0.09 wasn't the root cause of the collision; the black ice was. Still, a person got killed so he did 18 months as punishment. Not unreasonable.

Not sure eternal loss of his civil rights is reasonable, though.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 19, 2018 7:41 AM  

I'm now trying to imagine the anti-white virtue signaling the leftist jews will have to take up to placate the howling mobs because of what their cousins in Israel are doing. ( and as the sole white zionist on Earth I approve)

WAG the Right in Israel is doing this because they figured out the Arabs in the disputed territories were eyeing democracy as a weapon if those territories were officially annexed.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 7:42 AM  

I suppose the only thing that gets tricky when you get to say children and grandchildren of immigrants... is what happens when those grand children have married into an actual American family. its theoretically possible then that a dad who has voting rights will have kids who don't.


I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another on that... I'm just asking the question. It certainly provides a negative pressure to marrying immigrants. it also means that some of, if not all, of Trump's kids couldn't vote.


My take here is this is a good policy but the specifics and execution would matter a lot.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 7:43 AM  

its theoretically possible then that a dad who has voting rights will have kids who don't.

That's fine. If you want your kids to have a say in how society is governed, marry a fellow national. It's not that hard.

Blogger Pierre Truc July 19, 2018 7:47 AM  

Slightly related:

Vatican Bishop confesses: “Senior Catholic officials are being paid off by George Soros to promote mass Muslim migration into Europe”

Blogger Rick July 19, 2018 7:55 AM  

That’s not the contract I was referring too. I’m talking about the current legal process to become a citizen. If we vote to change it, I’m all for it.

And to the other boy, who suggested it was the lamest, I’ll repeat: thinking your fantasies will come true is what leftists do. I’m as disgusted as you are with the current situation. Probably more, as I’m in my mid fifties.
The GE, our model, is strong and patient and the Law Enforcer. Be that guy.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 7:57 AM  

"That's fine. If you want your kids to have a say in how society is governed, marry a fellow national. It's not that hard."

I'm good with it.


But it is something to think about. For example this provides, for the first time, a way that a person could cost his future generation, and their future generation their voting privileges. That's new. We've never had that in America. The children of criminals for example get to vote like everyone else. And maybe that in and of itself makes folks take their privileges a little more seriously.

I dunno. I think there are easier more effective ways to regulate the voter rolls. If you just limited the vote to people who owned at least 1 acre of land, or served in the military, you would pretty much destroy any hope the communists had forever.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 7:59 AM  

I also don't know how you would enforce this model all the way down to the great grandchildren. I mean its one thing to prove you're a citizen. its another to have to prove your great grandfather was a citizen. How do you do that?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 8:14 AM  

Nate wrote:I also don't know how you would enforce this model all the way down to the great grandchildren. I mean its one thing to prove you're a citizen. its another to have to prove your great grandfather was a citizen. How do you do that?

Know who your family is, and was? It's doable, for Americans, and some other races.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 8:17 AM  

"I’ll repeat: thinking your fantasies will come true is what leftists do."

Claiming that realistic things that can and do occur given sufficient time and conditions are fantasies is the move of a liar, dirtbag.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 8:18 AM  

I'm not expecting it to happen before current-America collapses, if that's what you mean.

Blogger Rick July 19, 2018 8:28 AM  

Now I’m a dirt bag.
Sure. You’re not a leftist.
If suggesting only citizens with a direct lineage back to before the revolution should only be allowed to vote is not a fantasy... you won’t be convincing anyone.
Buy a musket too while you’re at it.
In 50 years, you’ll still be on this soapbox.
I probably won’t be commenting anymore. There really are too many posers here.
I’ll keep reading. I agree with VD on just about everything.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 8:32 AM  

"If suggesting only citizens with a direct lineage back to before the revolution should only be allowed to vote is not a fantasy... you won’t be convincing anyone."

Like I said, not expecting it to happen before the collapse of the amalgamated abomination currently called the USA.

If telling other people the things they want to happen can't ever just because you're too old, tired, decrepit, and possibly lack the potency to push for it isn't a dirtbag move, I don't know what is.

I don't care if you don't think it will happen in fifteen seconds, or in your lifetime. If it's worth having, and it's not downright evil or unhealthy, it's worth fighting for, anything else is the reply of either a cuck or a relic of times soon to be gone.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 8:34 AM  

If suggesting only citizens with a direct lineage back to before the revolution should only be allowed to vote is not a fantasy... you won’t be convincing anyone.

And Trump will never break the 35 percent ceiling among Republicans. Come on, Rick, you've already seen the fantastic and the impossible happen within the last four years.

Thirty years ago, you would have thought that men marrying men would be a fantasy too. Just because something isn't going to happen immediately does not mean it will never happen.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 19, 2018 8:34 AM  

So which is it, do you think it's not a worthwhile thing to have, or are you just too weak to help make it so?

Blogger sysadmn July 19, 2018 8:36 AM  

Then make suggesting any expansion to the franchise a capital offense. Easily solved!

I suffer from the weakness of pity, Dark Lord. I'd settle for exile. If they believe the current suffrage is inadequate, move them to somewhere that is closer to their ideal.

@Nate - While genetic testing for country of origin is pretty iffy, the more data points you have, the lower the margin of error. So someone who cannot document ancestry might be able to show they are sufficiently "close" to a descendent and be acceptable.

Of course, if we were as pragmatic and as ruthless as the Chinese, we'd develop a profile of the ideal citizen, and use that as a benchmark. Bonus points for eucivic clusters, negative points for discivic. Maybe even make piety a bigger tiebreaker than intelligence.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 19, 2018 8:42 AM  

FTR you newbies, pre-Rev both sides, BUT the maternal sides were and still are Tory lickspittles and during the only good war they split for Ontario before sneaking back into Wisconsin to lecture everyone on their piety to whatever is good and just in the current year.

So I'm voting for the first politician who can negate the laws against me buying a 240B with spare barrels.

Blogger Shimshon July 19, 2018 8:45 AM  

@35 "How do you do that?"

The Mormons get picked on almost as much as the Jews here. Here's a shout out for them to do it. Put those records to good use.

Nate, even with all the wars and destruction, I believe Europeans have been keeping pretty meticulous track of this kind of stuff for a long time.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 8:55 AM  

I am a Mormon, and yes, you can go on-line on a number of different services including FamilySearch, Ancestry.com, etc. and find your ancestors if you can give dates and names for Mom and Dad and Grandmas and Grandpas. Lots and lots of records on there searchable for anyone who wants to. If your people have been in the country for more that a couple of generations there should be someone on there.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 8:56 AM  

"Nate, even with all the wars and destruction, I believe Europeans have been keeping pretty meticulous track of this kind of stuff for a long time."

I hope the euros have. I am pretty certain the US hasn't. At least not for the last 100 years.. which accounts for about 90% of all immigration.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 8:57 AM  

As an example, I can trace a most of my lines back through the 1600's in the U.S. and then back to Europe into the 1500s. You can occasionally find lines that will meet up with some noble or royalty and those will go back much further if you have them. You can get a dossier of where the majority of your ancestors come from based on your records as well.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 8:58 AM  

You can actually trace a lot of stuff even in the U.S. via censuses and tax records, etc. Uncle Sugar has the records because he wants to know who owes him money. Those are very useful.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 9:00 AM  

"Know who your family is, and was? It's doable, for Americans, and some other races."

Quick. List your parents, grand parents, and great grand parents. All of them.

Now... not only do you have to prove that all 8 of your great grand parents were born in the US. You have to prove that no one in your great grand parents line was an immigrant either.


Best of luck.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 9:08 AM  

It is not that hard. I can literally do it off the top of my head.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 9:11 AM  

Naming them I mean. There is almost no one who does not have some immigrant ancestry. The question is what is the preponderance? Is it likely you are going to have some strong foreign preference or allegiance?

Blogger Crush Limbraw July 19, 2018 9:13 AM  

One can argue voting rights all day, but if you allow the SJW crowd to take control of education - it won't matter.
Ideas have consequences - either good or evil - and the corruption of education, as well as our churches, began eary on in the American republic.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 9:15 AM  

"It is not that hard. I can literally do it off the top of my head."

it is easy to say that. but your great grandparents grand parents... ALL of them. not one line. all the lines. your 8 great grand parents have 16 parents. And you have to prove that all 32 of their parents were not immigrants.

Blogger WillBest July 19, 2018 9:17 AM  

Post collapse there will be a new "ourselves and our posterity" writing a new governing document. It will be unnecessary to talk about lineage all the way back to the founding of this failed state.


While genetic testing for country of origin is pretty iffy, the more data points you have, the lower the margin of error. So someone who cannot document ancestry might be able to show they are sufficiently "close" to a descendent and be acceptable.

Please tell me I am misunderstanding you. Your solution appears to be to give the Government a complete mapping of your DNA so that they can give you voting privileges, match you to any crime, clone you, etc.



Blogger Darwinite July 19, 2018 9:18 AM  

The LDS records are pretty worthless, much of it is a combination of poor research and wishful thinking. Genetic tests won’t catch me, as long as I keep my mouth shut, since I’m from the same stock as the Posterity Americans in my region. You’ll need to ensure the sovereign citizens don’t destroy the tax records in the revolution.

Blogger Peter Gent July 19, 2018 9:18 AM  

Amy wrote:Huh. I thought they were against foreign interference in elections?

Will wonders never cease.

Only if it is Russians. If it is Mexican, Latin American, African, Middle Eastern then go for it.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 9:18 AM  

as a practical means... if I were actually going to try to implement this... I would tie voter registration to a population from say... 1950. Pick a year. whenever... you have to be a descendant of someone who voted in 1950.

if you can't do that you don't get to vote.

This wouldn't be a perfect implementation of Vox's goal but it would be a starting point and it would eliminate a LOT of immigrant voting.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 9:22 AM  

Not really any wishful thinking about knowing who your great grandparents are. It is pretty straightforward.

Blogger Rex Little July 19, 2018 9:23 AM  

I don't think there's ever been a nation in which voting rights, once established, were contracted away. Certainly not in the US. So this will only happen if the US breaks up into new countries which start their governments from scratch.

Even then it's a long shot. If a new nation deals with the problem of immigrant influence, it's more likely to do so by severely restricting immigration in the first place, along the lines of Japan.

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 9:34 AM  

"Not really any wishful thinking about knowing who your great grandparents are. It is pretty straightforward."

Knowing who they are and proving they were natural born citizens and all the husbands and wives in between were also natural born citizens is not a little task mate.

Naming them is one thing. Proving they were natural born citizens is another.

For example.. one of my great grandmothers has a perfectly English sounding name. In fact.. she is a white woman of English stock.

A little to English though. She was born in England.

I did not know that until the DNA testing showed it and I did some research to confirm it.

Blogger Kat July 19, 2018 9:35 AM  

Rex - if the form of gov changes then we might not even have limited franchise - at least not nationally. We're a de facto empire. Might as well get an emperor and be done with the farce.

Blogger wreckage July 19, 2018 9:45 AM  

I see a disturbing amount of "all systems erode, therefore no action to reverse said erosion should occur".

That's the exact opposite to a rational approach to a given system.

Blogger James July 19, 2018 9:52 AM  

I have always found the phrase second class citizen to be deliberately deceptive. Whether it was blacks in the US, muslims in European countries, or Arabs in Israel, they should not be considered second class citizens. They shouldn't be considered citizens at all. Both national laws and the Bible have always provided guidelines on how to treat the "strangers" within the land. And those guidelines were not to be "oppressive" at all. What it really boils down to is, do we cater to those that are mere sojourners in the land, or do we hurt their widdle feelings by acknowledging that they are not part of the body politic? Migrants in all countries throughout history have understood they are not members of the "family" and had no problem with that. It is only since the 19th century that those who move to other countries because their own people can only create shitholes have been encouraged to "demand" that they be "given" the same rights as citizens. White people used to be told by their parents, "Beggars can't be choosers". Now we owe our children's inheritance to parasites that haven't even set foot in our country. Yet.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 10:04 AM  

Sherwood family wrote:Not really any wishful thinking about knowing who your great grandparents are. It is pretty straightforward.

Back to the 1860 Census, it's almost trivial. Earlier than that, the names of the children in the household were not recorded by the census, and you start having to rely on family bibles, church records and so on.

Nate wrote:Knowing who they are and proving they were natural born citizens and all the husbands and wives in between were also natural born citizens is not a little task mate.

Probably twenty hours of effort with zero dollars spent got me very close to that level of knowledge. I did have some family stories about names and what section of the country to look in to get me started.

Blogger tuberman July 19, 2018 10:04 AM  

One thing is certain, Nationalism will increase. The God Emperor is just a start, a very good start, even surprising, but not to worry after 2024, as this will only go further.

I believe the whole Mississippi River system may stay intact, because of water interconnection. Could be wrong, but after years of Nationalism before a breakup, many of the insane leftists can be forced out of the big cities in the mid-west to the east or the west. This waterway is vast with connections to the Gulf and the Great Lakes, and the productivity of this area is the highest in the world.

The fully insane Left or even Globalists will turn out to be much smaller than people think, with many people just hypnotized by (((media))) crap. When all the bribe money, media influence, and blackmail is gone the hard core insane will gravitate to the coasts.

Blogger Lurker July 19, 2018 10:07 AM  

"And you start having to rely on family bibles, church records and so on...

… and Mormon records

Blogger Nate July 19, 2018 10:08 AM  

"I see a disturbing amount of "all systems erode, therefore no action to reverse said erosion should occur".

Maybe. but don't confuse talking realistically about how to accomplish a thing with defeatism.

Acknowledging and preparing for the problems a task involves is not the same thing as arguing that a task should not be attempted.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 19, 2018 10:17 AM  

How about this as a compromise, Nate.
We only count your paternal linage and go back to the 1790 Census. So if the ancestor who gave you your last name was here at the first census then everything is A-OK.

Blogger Mocheirge July 19, 2018 10:17 AM  

If we restrict voting to those who can prove they are non-hyphenated Americans, there will be some authentic Americans who lose voting rights. I fail to see why this is so terrible. You've managed to eliminate ALL the fake Americans from voting; those who retain voting rights will be more likely to vote in accordance with what you want as an actual American, right?

Blogger tuberman July 19, 2018 10:29 AM  

66. tuberman

Obviously, there is really no telling. I'm speculating that major welfare reforms will occur similar to what's beginning in Texas. Also, huge sections of the South are part of the River connections. Certain Mayors of large cities are involved deeply in the current treason/sedition, and even the child trafficking, etc., and the military has the proof of this. Things will shake out in these areas in the next couple of years. These mayors think they can stop what's coming, they will not.

It's just strategic to keep together the worlds most productive area intact.

Blogger tz July 19, 2018 10:31 AM  

Note Netanyahu has met with Orban and Putin, and these weren't tense. The pendulum is swinging back to nationalism, and is past the middle but moving fast.

This will be a problem for America, and it will split. The best the CivNats can hope for is Canada with Quebec, but more and different enclaves, e.g. as Bill Lind suggested the blue cities get representatives but no senators.

Note the left doesn't even want any form of civic nationalism, they want full on socialism although their constiutiencies will argue how to divide the shrinking pie.

We are already 11 Nations though some people are in the wrong place or just cities with minority populations. Even culturally they have different values.

All things are possible with God, but even now it will take a 3rd great awakening (which I think I've been saying for a decade) just to return Christendom to some of the regions. It will have to restore the hard Fatherly Christianity, not the Chuchian or cucked varieties. Christians can tolerate virtuous Pagans, no Pagans can tolerate Christians. Libertarians can tolerate statists, but Statists cannot tolerate libertarians. I would suggest prayer and fasting as well as more practical prepping including how to exit the cities if all the infrastructure breaks (e.g. earthquakes take out bridges).

Blogger tuberman July 19, 2018 10:35 AM  

How about at least 3 generations, and a lie detector test to see who is pro-Western Civilization, for a start.

Feminism is a bigger problem, and the lie detector will find out the people who think the West is some horrible, patriarch plot, then eliminate them from voting.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 10:43 AM  

as a practical means... if I were actually going to try to implement this... I would tie voter registration to a population from say... 1950. Pick a year. whenever... you have to be a descendant of someone who voted in 1950.

Fine by me.

Blogger Sherwood family July 19, 2018 11:06 AM  

Too recent. By 1950 all the folks who pushed through the 1965 INA were here and champing at the bit to throw the doors wide open.

Blogger Matamoros July 19, 2018 11:08 AM  

One wonders if the Feds will refuse to count results from California for mixing legal and non-legal voters. That would only be just, and perhaps would bring the idiots to their senses - though I doubt it.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 11:08 AM  

Mocheirge wrote:... there will be some authentic Americans who lose voting rights. I fail to see why this is so terrible. You've managed to eliminate ALL the fake Americans from voting; ...

It is far more important that the wrong people not vote than that all the right people do vote. A system which keeps me or mine from voting is not unacceptable, as long as the few who do vote have the right incentives to look after the interests of me and mine.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 11:14 AM  

Matamoros wrote:One wonders if the Feds will refuse to count results from California for mixing legal and non-legal voters.

As I recall, the constitution allows the states to set the qualifications for voters. It's a good thing the constitution no longer applies to anything.

Blogger BassmanCO July 19, 2018 11:29 AM  

My grandparents came over from Italy on one side and Ireland and Germany on the other. And I would give up my vote if it would turn this country back into what it should be.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey July 19, 2018 11:32 AM  

Nate wrote:I suppose the only thing that gets tricky when you get to say children and grandchildren of immigrants... is what happens when those grand children have married into an actual American family. its theoretically possible then that a dad who has voting rights will have kids who don't.

I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another on that... I'm just asking the question. It certainly provides a negative pressure to marrying immigrants. it also means that some of, if not all, of Trump's kids couldn't vote.

My take here is this is a good policy but the specifics and execution would matter a lot.


This was a solved problem in English Common Law for hundreds of years, until our lifetimes (the 1980s, I believe). Nationality inherits through the father. Solved a lot of problems about who belonged to whom, and created social pressure for women 1) to mate in-group, and 2) not have children out of wedlock.

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim July 19, 2018 11:33 AM  

Didn’t we already conclude that there are no Americans who can claim to be the intended targets of “our posterity” three or four post ago? Whatever the framers meant, they did not offer adequate protections against the divided states we are currently living in. It would have been nice if them to name actual ethnicities.

Blogger Vlad Z. July 19, 2018 11:33 AM  

It's very interesting that the Israeli's did this. Your comments make a lot of sense, but despite the preamble I don't see the USA ever doing this.

The tribe of "founders posterity" is quite weak at this point. It's like one of those Indian tribes full of people who look like Elizabeth Warren, but somehow manage to own an Indian casino near a big city.

Many or most Americans are mixed. The "posterity" group didn't have a strong enough taboo against intermarriage and so after 10 generations mixes of British/German/Irish & other Europeans is pretty common.

The wisdom of nations like the Japanese which do not allow immigrants to become full citizens is evident, but that's not the path we took. Mr. & Mrs. Bob Johnson of Saginaw, Michigan likely don't know exactly how much of this or that European ethnic group they are, but remember that Grandma said "we had relatives that came over on the Mayflower", which like Fauxahontus's Indian relatives may, or may not, be true.

I can't imagine trying to pull from this stone-soup the list of "progeny" who would have the same rights here that Jews have asserted for themselves in Israel.

Also, there is the matter of numbers. The progeny haven't progenated enough!

If you set up a blood quantum rule of 25% WASP as the threshold for membership in the "owners of America" class, and used 23andMe style DNA testing as a first sorting mechanism, what percent of citizens would you end up in that class? 25%? Less?


Israel is 80% Jewish. So a very strong tribe, with a deep sense of itself as a tribe, is asserting itself and calling out it's homeland.

The only groups that sound like that in America are some of the American Indian tribes.

I think regional partition makes more sense for America. New nations can form up out of them, perhaps with some peaceful ethnic cleansing. To some extent you see that already in California, which the Mexicans have reconquered from L.A. South.

The top candidate for secession in the USA isn't one of the States everyone thinks of (Texas, California) but Hawaii, which was the only State which was a legitimate independent nation withing its current borders for a significant period of time. (Ignoring short lived anomalies like The Great Bear Republic, the Republic of Texas, the West Florida Republic, etc. fun as they all are.)

Summary: the Israeli plan is good for Israel but not directly applicable to the USA.

Blogger VD July 19, 2018 11:38 AM  

Israel is 80% Jewish. So a very strong tribe, with a deep sense of itself as a tribe, is asserting itself and calling out it's homeland.

The white American population is probably more genetically Anglo than the Jewish population in Israel is Semitic. Remember Ashkenazi Jews have less than half Middle-Eastern descent.

Blogger Kang July 19, 2018 12:04 PM  

Can "Skin-in-the-game" enfranchisement work, in perpetuity?

One vote per Family with a least 2 kids.

This Family must be a net producer, i.e. net tax paying productive.

Etc,

Even still, extreme drops in fertility will have a dysgenic strain on any civilization, probably fatally.


Blogger OneWingedShark July 19, 2018 12:31 PM  

VD wrote:its theoretically possible then that a dad who has voting rights will have kids who don't.

That's fine. If you want your kids to have a say in how society is governed, marry a fellow national. It's not that hard.

Or, you could endorse the old method: the wife takes the name, and citizenship, of her husband.

Mr.MantraMan wrote:So I'm voting for the first politician who can negate the laws against me buying a 240B with spare barrels.
Glad to have your vote!

Blogger John July 19, 2018 12:58 PM  

@85 Or, you could endorse the old method: the wife takes the name, and citizenship, of her husband.

What if the sons marry foreigners? Then the grandkids are only 25% native.

If you don't track native/foreign admixture on the birth certificate (or whatever), and then have a cutoff at 50% for full voting citizenship, you have a problem. There has to be a Constitutional failsafe, or else what's the point of having a Constitution?

That's fine. If you want your kids to have a say in how society is governed, marry a fellow national. It's not that hard.

A 4th-gen "immigrant" with 75% native blood is not the same as a 4th-gen immigrant with 25% native blood, especially in a country that is 99% native, especially if the fathers were native. If foreign bloodlines are present, you want to encourage those lines to be washed out…or else just deport them and be done with it.

(I'm 4.5th gen with 0% native blood. My extended family (including all those descended from the 1st gen immigrants) is bigger than I know, but I would bet money that my generation has less than 25% native blood in total (probably less than 12.5%)—that's true of the ones I know of. Not surprising that 4th/5th gen immigrants do immigrant things when we are essentially the same people as the 1st get immigrants.)

Blogger Gen. Kong July 19, 2018 1:18 PM  

I expect the influential diaspora would have been happier if the phrase had a slightly different wording. Instead of "the right to exercises national determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people", Bibi et al could have simply amended it to read "the right to exercises national determination is unique to the Jewish people."

Does anyone (other than totally brainwashed SJWs and churchian heretics) seriously think that folks like Harvey the Hutt, Mark Zuckerberg or Barbara Specter give a rat's arse about Israeli Arabs?? They might be made about the bill, but the one certainty is that the status of Israeli Arabs is not what they're upset about. Like Jerusalem as the capital, the law is merely an acknowledgment of the reality on the ground. If there are Israeli Arabs who find the situation intolerable, there are a large number of adjacent Arab countries they could move to with relative ease. I seriously doubt they'll be lining up to leave.

Blogger Menter July 19, 2018 1:28 PM  

While limiting the francise to white male descendants of the original founders is, in theory, the right thing to do, it will never happen. You are talking about disenfranchising the majority of the voters and they will never vote for that. Even a lot of white male Americans won't support that. It's also completely unnecessary.
Even with the current system, Republicans have near total dominance in elections. The Left seems equal in popularity to the Right, but that is just because of their control of media/education. At the polls they are getting crushed and it is just going to get worse. They are going to get annihiliated in November.

None of this is to say we shouldn't do something to improve the voter pool, just that we don't need to disenfranchise ALL women/blacks/immigrants/whatever. 51% of the voters win 100% of the elections. If we can tip the scales a bit in favor of white male Real Americans, they can be enough. I think the best way to do this is to add a training/permit requirement to voting similar to that for getting a carry permit. It will technically be completely open to everyone, you just need to pay about $100-$150, spent a day taking a training course, maybe pass a basic civics test, the entire process done only in English. It doesn't have to be hard to do, it will be fair, all the information (test and answers) can be available online. But in practice it will filter out Left voters far more than Right voters.

It will also be far easier to sell to current voters. If the left objects to permits for a fundament right, than they have to admit that requiring permits for bearing arms is also wrong. More importantly a lot of moderates will be able to support this that would never support a direct ban on women or blacks voting.

All you need to do is place a small hurdle in front of the voter and a ton of Leftist voters will drop out. If 70% of the voters are white male Americans, who really cares about the other 30%. And of course, once some Leftists are weeded out of the voting pool, the requirements can start being ratcheted up.

Blogger Gen. Kong July 19, 2018 1:28 PM  

Any time a SJW says "no-brainer", one knows that absolutely no brains were used in the decision. Only feelz.

Why should one expect anything less from a city now known as San Franshitsko?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 1:52 PM  

John wrote:What if the sons marry foreigners? Then the grandkids are only 25% native.

If that is likely, there are far too many foreigners. The solution is fewer foreigners, not increasingly Byzantine restrictions on the franchise.

Blogger S1AL July 19, 2018 1:59 PM  

Nate, easier math, and virtually universal records - of your 8 great-grandparents, X must have been born citizens.

Simple, easy to prove in 99% of cases, and it eliminates the edge cases.

Blogger S1AL July 19, 2018 2:18 PM  

Oh, NVM, I misunderstood. Simple enough to include a clause of "or have a parent who meets these requirements", if that seems necessary.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 19, 2018 2:51 PM  

But what about MEEEEEEEE?!?!?!?

Blogger Retrenched July 19, 2018 3:02 PM  

It's the right model. Respect the basic rights of all the paperwork citizens, but don't permit the non-nationals have any significant say in how the nation is governed or pretend that they are part of the nation proper.

This seems fair enough. It's far better than leaving the border wide open to 7.3 billion potential Democratic voters, in any case.

Blogger SirHamster July 19, 2018 3:49 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:John wrote:What if the sons marry foreigners? Then the grandkids are only 25% native.

If that is likely, there are far too many foreigners. The solution is fewer foreigners, not increasingly Byzantine restrictions on the franchise.


Good point. If the sons are raised as Americans, then an American wife should at least be equally appealing as a foreign one.

So if the local population is 95% native, then statistically they will marry native more often than not, all else being equal.

Which it isn't, hence a need to develop social systems to deliberately make it unequal in favor of the natives. It's part of being a nation. Develop it or die.

Blogger John July 19, 2018 4:16 PM  

@90 "If that is likely, there are far too many foreigners. The solution is fewer foreigners, not increasingly Byzantine restrictions on the franchise."

1) True.
2) It's not a Byzantine restriction. It's very simple and easy to understand. The franchise is for natives. Period. So the definition of nationals has to have an actual limit. Persons of less than 50% native blood cannot seriously be considered nationals.

@95 Exactly, but the question is how to deal with the legitimate "what about meeees!": grandchildren of missionaries, children of war brides, grandchildren of diplomats, etc… presuming an irrevocable clause limiting the foreign population to say 1% (or 0.1% or whatever): any larger than that and immigration becomes illegal.

IF you are going to dis-incentivize intermarriage with the foreign population (as per Vox) then it's immoral to grant them residence in the first place. My point is, if the foreign population is small, foreign blood will wash out naturally.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 5:52 PM  

John wrote:My point is, if the foreign population is small, foreign blood will wash out naturally.

That's where I was going with @90. I think we're in agreement.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2018 10:37 PM  

Lurker wrote:"And you start having to rely on family bibles, church records and so on...

… and Mormon records


Apparently Mormons get brownie points for putting geneology data into their system. I see no evidence that they get any extra points for getting it right. I place no credence in any of their data.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:17 PM  

As one of the resident female blog posters, I lol'd.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:19 PM  

I would *never* support a woman in office & I've been talking about repealing the 19th A voting rights, since the early 90s. Way longer than Ann Coulter has, as a matter of fact. :)

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:24 PM  

There are always outliers to everything. We don't (or used to not) make laws based on edge cases.
I'm TEN times more hardass,(and openly identify as a fascist), than anyone else who posts here, but I'm a woman & women should not have voting rights, so mine have to go, as well.
It stinks that some soy boy would get to vote in my place, but life's like that.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:30 PM  

One thing I don't think many ppl think about-if you marry someone with far right sensibilities, you are genetically moving to push your group further right. A large portion of white sh*tlib feminists and homosexuals won't be having progeny, while the most religious will.
This means the future will become more idelogically divided and more, not less, racially pure.
The small % of people on the margins who are all for the multi-culti Marxist racial mixing ideology will be one group, and as the groups further segregate themselves based on their values,each group becomes further and further polarized.
There is no real middle, in the future.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:34 PM  

I can easily trace both sides of my ancestry back to the 1300s.
Why can't everyone else? I have records of birth certificates, census forms, ship manifests, military service records, births, deaths, property taxes, etc.
It doesn't take much effort to research your family in the internet age.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:37 PM  

Awww,bless his poor heart. The paper-American got triggered & butthurt.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:38 PM  

The Mormons are a sucky cucky cult of weirdo supremacists that crap on everyone else.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:46 PM  

I can provide birth certificates, military records, pictures of headstones, census data, land records, and I can provide them for not only the US, but also before they came to the US.
I even can whip out some 1800s photos as well.
My g-g-g-g grandfather fought in the Spanish-American War in General Wool's Division, alongside a young Robert E Lee. His son fought under Lee and was with him at Appomattox.
His first born son was named Robert E Lee, who was my great great grandfather.
They were from a long line of military men, going back to Prussia.
My mother's family also served in every war from the Rev War, forward. It's very easy to trace your family lineage for everyone with an IQ over about 95.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:48 PM  

Have you never had an Ancestry.com subscription? A smart 5th grader can plug in your family tree,with the amount of info there.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:51 PM  

A $99 a yr Ancestry.com sub and a one-time $99 23&Me test will get you everything, up to & including 20th cousins, twice removed, if you like.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:54 PM  

I'm a big proponent of using the 1924 census as the watermark. I'd prefer 1781, but most would balk at that. I think 1924 is imminently reasonable.
Plus, pre-WW1-2.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 9:59 PM  

This "many or most Americans are mixed" saw is NOT TRUE.
You all have bought into the Media propaganda.
Until around 1970, only ONE Percent of Americans out-married racially.
Currently, 7% of whites (men & women) outmarry.
19% blacks, 28% Asians, 79% Native Americans.
White American adults are not by & large "mixed."

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 22, 2018 10:00 PM  

White Americans are racially purer than a vast portion of Europe.

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