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Tuesday, July 10, 2018

Churches without Christ

It's no wonder all of these churches in Minnesota are dying. They have abandoned the Word of God so the Holy Spirit has left the building and people can sense it.
Minnesota’s mainline Christian denominations face unprecedented declines, altering communities and traditions celebrated for generations.

La Salle, Minn. — For 100 years, Lutherans in this farming community on the Minnesota prairie have come to one church to share life’s milestones.

They have been baptized, confirmed and married at La Salle Lutheran. Their grandparents, parents and siblings lie in the church cemetery next door.

But the old friends who gathered here early one recent Sunday never imagined that they would one day be marking the death of their own church.

When La Salle Lutheran locks its doors in August, it will become the latest casualty among fragile Minnesota churches either closing, merging or praying for a miracle. Steep drops in church attendance, aging congregations, and cultural shifts away from organized religion have left most of Minnesota’s mainline Christian denominations facing unprecedented declines.

St. Paul’s On the Hill Episcopal Church on prestigious Summit Avenue was recently sold to a developer after more than a century of religious service. Bethany Lutheran Church in the Longfellow neighborhood of Minneapolis held its “holy closure” ceremony last fall. St. Michael Catholic Church in West St. Paul celebrated its last mass 18 months ago.

Mainline Protestant churches have been hit the hardest. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) in Minnesota has lost almost 200,000 members since 2000 and about 150 churches. A third of the remaining 1,050 churches have fewer than 50 members. The United Methodist Church, the second largest Protestant denomination in Minnesota, has shuttered 65 churches since 2000.
Once a Christian church goes Churchian, accepts women as leaders, and begins to preach the Gospel of Emma Lazarus and Martin Luther King, it begins to die. Every single time. I find it absolutely astonishing that so few Christians appear able to recognize the very clear and undeniable pattern of church decline and demise.

The blogger at the link notes: La Salle Lutheran Church. It is Lutheran Immigration Services in MN that is largely responsible for the growing Muslim population there. So should anyone be surprised that Lutheran churches are losing congregants.

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81 Comments:

Blogger The Kurgan July 10, 2018 5:08 AM  

I’d say that in my limited experience, the only Churches that have some growth are those of hardcore return to their roots, pretty much regardless of denomination.

Overall globally I would say the Orthodox seem to be the healthiest. There is also a tiny, and disorganised resurgence in the hardcore Catholics that completely reject Bergoglio but they don’t compare to Orthodox attendances as far as I can see.

What is absolutely dying out at fast-zombie speed seems to be the supposedly Catholic (Bergoglian) Churches in the West (not so much in Latin America) and I think most Protestant denominations all round.

Blogger Harry Goldblatt MD July 10, 2018 5:31 AM  

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:15

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 10, 2018 5:44 AM  

Leftist Minnesota, where Churchians thought it was a great idea to import vast numbers of Somali Muslims? Gee, who could've predicted this?

Blogger SemiSpook37 July 10, 2018 5:48 AM  

@1

You’re spot on with those of us Catholics who absolutely abhor Bergolio and his Peronist Jesuit leanings. Most seminaries report a vocational crisis, while more Traditionalist dioceses and orders have to turn men away from theirs.

We attend an FSSP parish. We’re seriously considering having our daughters confirmed there because the diocese we live in has punted on enforcing proper catechesis in all parochial schools (the confirmation program, as we understand it, goes as far as to say abortion is bad, and no sex outside marriage, and that’s about it). No wonder the mainstream Catholic parishes are in decline!

Blogger SciVo July 10, 2018 6:29 AM  

Venezuela needs more socialism, marriage needs more feminism, and obviously Christian churches need more worldliness to stem their decline. Just ask any Marxist lesbian atheist (triple parentheses optional), they'll all say the same!

Blogger widlast washere July 10, 2018 6:34 AM  

You have to stick to sound doctrine. People come to church to find God, if He's not there, what's the point? My parish has good traditionalist priests and (being an Oblate) I go to a Benedictine monastery once a month. The monks are definitely "old school".

Blogger McChuck July 10, 2018 6:50 AM  

Recent Harvard study announced that the American people aren't really less religious than they were a decade ago. They've just stopped going to church, or have changed churches.

The churches have gone full New Coke. And the people aren't buying it.

Blogger Dirtnapninja July 10, 2018 7:01 AM  

two signs your church is doomed

1) female clergy
2) Acceptance of homosexualism

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira July 10, 2018 7:07 AM  

There are open Freemasons handing out the Body of Christ in local Catholic churches around here. And I'm all out of nuclear warheads.

Blogger Rusty Shackleford July 10, 2018 7:20 AM  

The Lutheran Church I grew up in was an ELCA Church. Once the ELCA started allowing gays behind the pulpit the congregation, which my parents still attend, voted to leave the organization and become independent. Glad to see the ELCA dying a slow death. Good riddance.

Blogger The Kurgan July 10, 2018 7:24 AM  

Look for sodalitium pianum.
Here: https://www.sodalitiumpianum.com

I was baptised and confirmed by them and married in church through them too.
They have a true crusader spirit of what Catholicism is about. Just read the article on the site about the French priest who got killed by Muslims to get an idea.

FSSP ares still cucked as far as I can see.

Blogger The Kurgan July 10, 2018 7:29 AM  

Any actual Catholic should be exposing and doing everything they can to spread the word about the pedophile nest of perverts that is now the Vatican.
Everything connected to Vatican II needs to be burnt to the ground and the ground salted.

Get back to Canon Law of 1917 and launch a nice Urban II style palate cleanser of a walkabout.

Blogger Othello July 10, 2018 7:32 AM  

“Once a Christian church goes Churchian, accepts women as leaders, and begins to preach the Gospel of Emma Lazarus and Martin Luther King, it begins to die.”

Same pattern with the decline of the nuclear family. The courts make wives heads of single mother households, preach the gospel of single mummy, the holy unwed mother, without the father, on earth, as it is in heaven. There is no spirit of loyalty their either. No honor for her honor Your Honor. Just one nation under the rule of Babylon.

Blogger cavalier973 July 10, 2018 7:37 AM  

Revelation 3:1-6

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 10, 2018 7:38 AM  

The latter often seems to follow the former. - Coincidence...?

Blogger Looking Glass July 10, 2018 7:41 AM  

@12 The Kurgan

I'm "Long" stakes & oil. :)

Blogger Looking Glass July 10, 2018 7:42 AM  

Dirtnapninja wrote:two signs your church is doomed

1) female clergy

2) Acceptance of homosexualism



Women on the Deacon board. It always starts there first. Once that's in, the denomination is toast. That is Event Horizon.

Blogger CarpeOro July 10, 2018 7:46 AM  

I was a member of an ALC (American Lutheran Church) congregation when the merge into the ELCA occurred. I had felt a bit off seeing women in the pulpit as a teenager, but being raised in a household that was pro-union, solid Democrat, and with my mother having converted from the Methodist church (father was agnostic) nothing was said about it. I drifted during and after college into an evangelical Mennonite sect and was baptized again as an adult, but felt strongly enough about the discussion in the ELCA of allowing communion for homosexuals that I went back to my old ELCA congregation and asked the pastor to have my name officially struck from the rolls of members. Once the church breaks from Gods word there is only one way it can go. I foresee the same fate for the Assemblies of God, but don't know of any decent alternatives near me.

Blogger CarpeOro July 10, 2018 7:53 AM  

Regarding the AoG, had one Sunday wasted by a visiting pastor's wife giving her auto-biography (in place of the sermon). The "I" count hit 50 and kept on going. My wife was appalled by it. Stack that on top of the charismatic and Pentecostal nature of the denomination, it is clearly doomed in the long run. Probably not even that long.

Blogger Rex Little July 10, 2018 8:02 AM  

Are there any cases where an individual church broke away from the Lutheran or Methodist or whatever Churchian denomination it was part of, because of these issues? If so, did those churches do better (in terms of retaining their membership) than those which remained?

Blogger Viisaus July 10, 2018 8:29 AM  

"You are the salt of the earth: but if the salt has lost its savor, how shall it be salted? it is thereafter good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." - Matthew 5:13

Blogger HoosierHillbilly July 10, 2018 8:29 AM  

@20. Confused by the question. That is almost exactly the history of American mainline protestants. Just look at the history of the Presbyterian church to get a taste of the chaos.

Blogger Viisaus July 10, 2018 8:33 AM  

"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would that you were cold or hot. So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth." - Revelation 3:15-16

Blogger tz July 10, 2018 8:49 AM  

With the churchs, the salt will have to go galt.

Blogger Ledford Ledford July 10, 2018 8:59 AM  

The Rev. Sarah Taylor and her parishioners at La Salle are grieving. “Everything we’re doing, we’re doing for the last time,” she said.

http://www.startribune.com/when-the-flock-scatters-la-salle-lutheran-church-to-close/486758761/#1

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 10, 2018 9:01 AM  

Are there any cases where an individual church broke away from the Lutheran or Methodist or whatever Churchian denomination it was part of, because of these issues? If so, did those churches do better (in terms of retaining their membership) than those which remained?

A lot of Lutheran churches left the ELCA (which strictly speaking isn't a denomination, its more of an affiliation) and either went independent or joined the LCMC. In addition, there are other, faithful Lutheran associations such as the Missouri Synod that does not allow for female leadership, and certainly not gay clergy. And its the ELCA that is losing members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nx8QqiADyw

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 10, 2018 9:04 AM  

As someone up thread noted, its not that people are leaving these churches and becoming atheists. People leave them and go to churches that actually preach The Word.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 10, 2018 9:07 AM  

Even Rush mentioned the Harvard religion study yesterday

Blogger Matthew McDaniel July 10, 2018 9:18 AM  

LOL. No.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 10, 2018 9:18 AM  

I followed the link and its just a slide show that doesn't give much info, but I'm thinking that the issue is more one of a shrinking population. Also, a church lasting for 100 years is actually pretty good run in a rural area.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 10, 2018 9:20 AM  

And a bing search shows the church is ELCA.

Blogger Didas Kalos July 10, 2018 9:35 AM  

For church to remain a growing church that church MUST be a praying church. But even considering this truth, most churches in the USA are so cold that they have been dead for 100 years regardless of the orthodoxy. Jesus left long ago. The husk finally has deteriorated to complete collapse. Repent and return to your first love and do the first wowrks again, or jesus will remove the candlestick.

Blogger widlast washere July 10, 2018 9:41 AM  

In my experience, most people do not take their faith very seriously. It is as if they accept the notion that God exists, but there is no expectation that they need to do anything about it. On par with having a pet rock. Yes, it's there, but it doesn't do anything and I don't need to feed or walk it.

Blogger daeth July 10, 2018 9:51 AM  

Most of the churches growing around here are the Mega "entertainment" churches. Lots of "I love my church", and look what accolades we got from the local community, but little actual Christian growth. Rock concerts with Jesus is my boyfriend songs. The mainline protestant ones are failing though.

Blogger Rez Zircon July 10, 2018 9:52 AM  

Rex Little wrote:Are there any cases where an individual church broke away from the Lutheran or Methodist or whatever Churchian denomination it was part of, because of these issues? If so, did those churches do better (in terms of retaining their membership) than those which remained?



Not a complete break, but Faith Lutheran in Great Falls MT broke away from ELCA due to the gays-in-the-pulpit issue. Thanks to a poorly-written charter (and a lengthy lawsuit that went to the state supreme court) the main congregation lost ownership of its facility to the pro-ELCA splinter group, and had to start over from scratch on donated land half an hour's drive from its original neighborhood.

But this proved for the best. The congregation went from being a few dozen retired people who'd been there since its founding in 1960, to about double its previous size and mostly younger people with multiple kids.

Blogger Corp Mgmt July 10, 2018 10:02 AM  

Unreported in mainstream press was the $210M settlement the Catholic church just agreed to for child abuse in the Minneapolis/St Paul area. This certainly sours people too.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/31/minneapolis-st-paul-archdiocese-sexual-abuse-settlement/

Blogger widlast washere July 10, 2018 10:11 AM  

"$210M settlement the Catholic church just agreed to for child abuse in the Minneapolis/St Paul area"

This crap started back in the 50's with liberals infesting the seminaries. We NEED to clean house. A pox on all liberals.

Blogger Howard Stone July 10, 2018 10:13 AM  

At this point if your church isn’t independent then it’s converged. Not saying independent churches are immune, but you can be certain that all corporate churches are in one way or another.

Blogger Howard Stone July 10, 2018 10:16 AM  

They’re not a church, they’re a franchise.

Blogger Nostromo July 10, 2018 10:44 AM  

The massive mega-churches are appalling examples of man's self aggrandizement and hubris.

Blogger ar10308 July 10, 2018 10:47 AM  

If you compare the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod to the ELCA, the LCMS is massively more conservative and probably even growing. The ELCA broke away from the LCMS after the Seminex incident in the 1970s where Lutheran Seminary students tried to overthrow the seminary and liberalize it. The President of the Seminary kicked out every seminary student and professor who tried to overthrow it. It was a textbook case of dealing with SJW Convergence decades before anyone knew it was a thing. That is why I attend an LCMS church, because they do not give in to Churchian demands.

Blogger Joseph Maroney July 10, 2018 10:55 AM  

"There are open Freemasons handing out the Body of Christ in local Catholic churches around here."

Many of the problems churches are dealing with today -- of their own doing -- were preceded by this step.

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 11:03 AM  

@20:

http://eldona.org/

Blogger John July 10, 2018 11:05 AM  

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) in Minnesota has lost almost 200,000 members since 2000 and about 150 churches. A third of the remaining 1,050 churches have fewer than 50 members.

Deus Vult. Death to ELCA. They abandoned Christ and the Lutheran Confessions generations ago.

@38 At this point if your church isn’t independent then it’s converged. Not saying independent churches are immune, but you can be certain that all corporate churches are in one way or another.

Akshully… the LCMS seminaries were de-converged in the 70s when we kicked out the lefty-loons, and LCMS, Inc. was de-converged in 2010 with the election of Rev. Matthew Harrison. There are still plenty of left-liberal types lurking around in various congregations, but they are firmly out of power in the corporate structure and have no influence in the seminaries. And every time a Boomer heretic dies off, no one replaces him.

Blogger John July 10, 2018 11:14 AM  

@41 We're not growing. We are suffering the same demographic problems that all Lutheran denominations suffer from, although obviously we aren't in free-fall like that homo-hellpit, ELCA. But the church can't do anything about demographics. If the Holy Spirit wants us to grow, we'll grow. It's our job to stand firm on doctrine.

@43 When are the ELDONA guys coming home? We could use their help maintaining supremacy in the LCMS.

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 11:14 AM  

@41:
" [...] The ELCA broke away from the LCMS [...] ."

You are confused. Very confused.

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 11:20 AM  

@45: I can't speak about that, really. I came to ELDoNa out of the ELCA. Had. No "real" LCMS congregation around here. The LCMS has some housework to do before they can expect any movement from ELDoNA.

Blogger ar10308 July 10, 2018 11:41 AM  

@46
Ok. I'm willing to be corrected.

Blogger CarpeOro July 10, 2018 11:48 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 11:49 AM  

@48:

Easiest thing is just to read this etc. LCMS and ELCA were never at any time connected in any way. All the best!

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 11:49 AM  

@48:

Oops. Sorry. Here 'tis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Church%E2%80%93Missouri_Synod



Blogger CarpeOro July 10, 2018 11:51 AM  

@48
Darcy is correct. Read my comments for content and you can see some of the references. ELCA was a merger of the LCA, ALC, and AELC(?) in the early 1980s. LCMS wasn't affiliated with them at all in the 1970s.

Blogger Matamoros July 10, 2018 11:52 AM  

@1 "I’d say that in my limited experience..."

I would counter that with Catholic churches in the bible belt are growing. The Ordinariate churches (Episcopal parishes who have returned to Rome) are growing. Byzantine Rite (Uniate Eastern Churches) are growing. We have quite a baby boom going on in our parish.

The orthodox churches around here are not growing, but dying out as the old immigrants die off.

Blogger Sheila4g July 10, 2018 12:10 PM  

@20 Rex Little: "Are there any cases where an individual church broke away from the Lutheran or Methodist or whatever Churchian denomination it was part of, because of these issues? If so, did those churches do better (in terms of retaining their membership) than those which remained?"

Our Episcopal church left the national organization when they okayed the ordination of active homosexuals. For a while it was under the auspices of a Latin American diocese, and then an African one. So far as we could tell, membership and attendance remained strong. Then the pastor began to specifically note the "beautiful, wonderful, faithful" few Africans who began attending our formerly all White church, and women became deacons . . . and then the pastor had an "awakening" about biblical understanding and supported the ordination of women. Being told to countenance "priestesses" was a step too far, and we left. Parking lot still seems full on a Sunday morning when I've passed by, but they no longer need cops directing traffic.

We've tried a number of other churches but there's always the emphasis on women, or hispanics, or social justice of some sort. And while we appreciated and miss communion and the liturgy, we are not Catholic and feel equally uncomfortable at the Anglican churches that are Catholic in all but name. It would be nice to find a church where the gospel is preached, but our faith remains strong; we're not willing to submit to SJW teaching in order to enjoy corporate worship.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella July 10, 2018 12:19 PM  

our church was elca. our entire children's childhood memories! the founding pastor retired. a mega-church wannabe moved in. anyone under 60 moved out to a baptist non-denom down the street for kids program.

it's not like people don't want their children catechized. it's not like they want to leave.

the families with children trusted the committee that chose a new pastor. why wouldn't they? trendy shiny things look good to people without children, apparently.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella July 10, 2018 12:22 PM  

our church was elca. our entire children's childhood memories! the founding pastor retired. a mega-church wannabe moved in. anyone under 60 moved out to a baptist non-denom down the street for kids program.

it's not like people don't want their children catechized. it's not like they want to leave.

the families with children trusted the committee that chose a new pastor. why wouldn't they? trendy shiny things look good to people without children, apparently.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 10, 2018 12:26 PM  

@19

"Regarding the AoG, had one Sunday wasted by a visiting pastor's wife giving her auto-biography (in place of the sermon). The "I" count hit 50 and kept on going. My wife was appalled by it."

That's what Friday social get-togethers are for. Good God... why wasn't the visiting Pastor PREACHING?

Blogger VFM #7634 July 10, 2018 12:31 PM  

"Venezuela needs more socialism, marriage needs more feminism, and obviously Christian churches need more worldliness to stem their decline. Just ask any Marxist lesbian atheist (triple parentheses optional), they'll all say the same!"

@SciVo
And the Catholic Church needs more Vatican II! MOAR!

Blogger John July 10, 2018 12:56 PM  

@47 "I came to ELDoNa out of the ELCA."

God bless you.

"The LCMS has some housework to do before they can expect any movement from ELDoNA."

Sigh. I've heard that before… I was highly sympathetic to ELDONA before Harrison. I was highly sympathetic to all the LCMS congregations that split off due to the longstanding heretical control of LCMS, Inc. But now we've won. We've established a precedent of removing false shepherds, see Matthew Becker. So it is time to come home, for the sake of the seminaries if nothing else. It's not necessary to wait until all of the churchian Boomer congregations that still infest certain corners of the LCMS have died off.

Re: ELCA and LCMS, the other commenter was thinking of when the traitor seminary faculty and seminarians split off from the St. Louis. They ended up in ELCA.

Blogger Mr Darcy July 10, 2018 1:07 PM  

@59

No doubt! No doubt they ended up in the ELCA.

Again, I really can't speak with any intelligence on the LCMS and SeminEx and the heresy trials, etc. I know about them, of course, but I was in the ELCA. There is one LCMS congregation in my Deep South city of 500,000, but there are "problems" there, so I drive 125 miles (one way) to an ELDoNA congregation.

I'd certainly not raise any objections to a "reunion." But it would not *me* any good, as selfish as that might sound. There would be for me scant reason to favor dissolving my ELDoNA parish if it left me in the desert where I languished for a number of years. I just don't have any other *real* options.

MPAI.

Blogger DonReynolds July 10, 2018 1:11 PM  

Vox...As I am sure you remember, the American civil war did not only divide the states but also churches. The Presbyterian church at the time divided into North and South and did not come back together until....lemmie see...1983.

This was certainly not the only time the Presbyterians separated themselves, but it was a major split.

Once Northern Leftists were thrown together with the Southern evangelical conservatives, we saw the usual pattern. The Liberals wanted to "modernize" the church...you know, make it more hip and progressive. At first, they were resisted and the Leftists got together and targeted the "reactionary" individuals for exclusion and expulsion from positions in the church.

When I left, the conversion had become fairly complete, with reactionary thinking now thought of as somehow sinful and against God. What was perhaps the more important church in the South for many decades is now a hollow shell of it's former self. Some of us still count ourselves as Presbyterian, but we have been left behind by the church itself. A familiar enough story.

Blogger Coyotewise July 10, 2018 1:18 PM  

My Evangelical church is loosely associated with the Assemblies of God. It used to be fully independent and still operates much that way. A few years ago they hired a female worship leader (I know I know). I've noticed that the worship music has become very pop/sensual. A lot of it is coming out of Hillsong and Bethel. I have also learned that these Evangelical production powerhouses are influenced a lot by what some have called the NAR: New Apostolic Reformation. I've looked into it some. There isn't much that is formalized; seems more faddish. It appears to me to be perhaps the Millennial version of the Emergent Church that blew itself up when it went full apostasy/socialist.

Any other Evangelicals here know much about this?

Blogger Gen. Kong July 10, 2018 1:29 PM  

It seems the SBC is going down the mainline path - doubling-down on Social Justice like all the other zombies.

Blogger ar10308 July 10, 2018 1:52 PM  

@51
Thanks for the reference. I'll check it out when I have a chance.

Blogger John July 10, 2018 1:57 PM  

@60 Yeah, not much Confessional presence in the Deep South. It's a little better on the East Coast…I only drive 40 miles. Heh.

There would be for me scant reason to favor dissolving my ELDoNA parish

Of course. The LCMS has slowly hemorrhaged Confessional parishes over the last 20 years for perfectly understandable reasons. As it becomes increasingly clear that the left-liberals have lost their institutional influence, I hope these parishes will all start to come back…after all, the main point of LCMS, Inc. is preserving the seminaries. There is strength in numbers.

Blogger OneWingedShark July 10, 2018 3:31 PM  

Looking Glass wrote:Dirtnapninja wrote:two signs your church is doomed
1) female clergy
2) Acceptance of homosexualism


Women on the Deacon board. It always starts there first. Once that's in, the denomination is toast. That is Event Horizon.

Hm, Romans 16:1 says "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae,"
Given that this is Paul, the same one who laid out the principle that a woman shouldn't be teach men, I'd be hesitant to condemn the existence of deaconesses.

Blogger Lyon July 10, 2018 3:45 PM  

To quote St. Athanasius (b. 296 – d. 373; Patriarch of Alexandria, Doctor of the Church), while opposing the heresy of Arianism (Arius put the Father’s divinity over the Son):

“We have the faith, they have the buildings.”

@42. "There are open Freemasons handing out the Body of Christ in local Catholic churches around here."

@12. “Everything connected to Vatican II needs to be burnt to the ground and the ground salted.”

A quote from Adam Weishaupt (b. 1748 d. 1830; supporter of Deism, founder of Illuminati Order; a Freemason incarnation):

“We will infiltrate into the Vatican, and once inside we will never come out. We will bore from within until nothing is left.”

Jorge Bergoglio, aka Francis, is an anti-pope. Since John XXIII (1958-1963; launched Vatican II), they were all anti-popes. John XXIII was probably a Freemason. The evidence is damning for this assertion. John XXIII was a manifest heretic, as were the antipopes who succeeded him. Since 1958, the Church has entered into the Great Apostasy.

Today the Church remains in a remnant. Again, to quote St. Athanasius, "We have the faith, they have the buildings.”

One last quote via St. Matthew Ch. 7 to get a feel for its full context:

[13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.


Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 10, 2018 4:01 PM  

Get back to Canon Law of 1917 and launch a nice Urban II style palate cleanser of a walkabout.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius10/p10moath.htm

Blogger Howard Stone July 10, 2018 4:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VFM #7634 July 10, 2018 4:09 PM  

"Since 1958, the Church has entered into the Great Apostasy."

@Lyon
Ain't that ironic? Protestants have been banging on about the Catholic Church being in apostasy for centuries without anything to back it up aside from insinuations about the emperor Constantine somehow corrupting the Church, despite not even being a member of the Church himself... and now we have Vatican II, where the rupture with the past is blatantly obvious. The Protestants were correct... they were just way, way too early.

Blogger Lyon July 10, 2018 4:21 PM  

@68. Thank you for sharing the link to "The Oath Against Modernism" by Pope Pius X circa 1910. I especially enjoyed reading this fifth point:

"Fifthly, I hold with certainty and sincerely confess that faith is not a blind sentiment of religion welling up from the depths of the subconscious under the impulse of the heart and the motion of a will trained to morality; but faith is a genuine assent of the intellect to truth received by hearing from an external source."

Blogger Lyon July 10, 2018 4:30 PM  

@70. "...and now we have Vatican II, where the rupture with the past is blatantly obvious."

Agreed.

And, yes, it seems to me the Protestants jumped the gun on the Apostasy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 10, 2018 6:08 PM  

OneWingedShark wrote:Hm, Romans 16:1 says "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae,"
At the time, a Deaconess had one duty, baptizing women. this was needed because baptism was full-immersion and done nude. The modern Protestant idea of a Deacon as a ruler of the Church did not exist, nor did the modern Catholic idea of a Deacon as a sort of semi-priest, performing non-sacramental ministerial functions. A deacon was merely someone deemed trustworthy to handle money, distribution of charity, care of sacred vessels, etc, and a deaconess was not even that.

Blogger Howard Stone July 10, 2018 6:21 PM  

That’s not what the KJV reads, just sayin.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 10, 2018 10:13 PM  

My English advisor at university was a Minnesotan scandicuck. He was a nice guy, damn smart too. But by the time I bailed, he was one of only two men left in the dept.

Did I mention I went to a Churchian university? Sad, sorry state of Christianity.

Blogger Major Styles July 10, 2018 11:46 PM  

Martin Luther was/is a hero of mine. Lutheranism is the sect of Christianity that has always made the most sense to me.

Blogger liberranter July 10, 2018 11:53 PM  

A deacon was merely someone deemed trustworthy to handle money, distribution of charity, care of sacred vessels, etc, and a deaconess was not even that.

That's still the only truly correct definition of the role, despite centuries of churchian corruption of it.

Blogger OneWingedShark July 11, 2018 11:20 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:OneWingedShark wrote:Hm, Romans 16:1 says "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae,"

At the time, a Deaconess had one duty, baptizing women. this was needed because baptism was full-immersion and done nude. The modern Protestant idea of a Deacon as a ruler of the Church did not exist, nor did the modern Catholic idea of a Deacon as a sort of semi-priest, performing non-sacramental ministerial functions. A deacon was merely someone deemed trustworthy to handle money, distribution of charity, care of sacred vessels, etc, and a deaconess was not even that.

Then the argument is not over the existence of 'deaconess', but rather the role and responsibilities.

Blogger Howard Stone July 11, 2018 12:31 PM  

One more reason I stay with the KJB.

Romans 16:1
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea

Blogger Howard Stone July 11, 2018 12:35 PM  

And this:

1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Women can’t be husbands, nor can they be Deacons.

Blogger Howard Stone July 11, 2018 12:40 PM  

If it’s not a KJB, it’s been converged, just saying.

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