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Tuesday, July 17, 2018

He's not wrong

Richard Dawkins appears to be rethinking the consequences of his decades-long assault on Christianity.
Listening to the lovely bells of Winchester, one of our great mediaeval cathedrals. So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding “Allahu Akhbar.” Or is that just my cultural upbringing?
To paraphrase my previous assertion, never bring a philosophy to a religious war.

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70 Comments:

Blogger wreckage July 17, 2018 11:38 AM  

It's a bit bloody late, Dawkins old son.

Blogger RB July 17, 2018 11:47 AM  

Meh, he'll be fine. I think it would be a lot more dangerous for him to say something bad about the Clintons..

Blogger pyrrhus July 17, 2018 11:52 AM  

When Benedict Arnold, a great and indispensable officer who turned traitor, was dying in his bed in London, it is said that he had his old Continental uniform brought to him.....You don't have to wait that long, Dawkins old boy...

Blogger qualitycontrol July 17, 2018 11:52 AM  

I saved this meme from /pol/ some time ago. I think it fits the situation.

https://imgur.com/a/iEZLlQt

Blogger Rob July 17, 2018 12:00 PM  

He seems to be recovering from 'the Dawkins Delusion'. Maybe it's not a terminal disease, after all.

Blogger Edgar Abbey July 17, 2018 12:08 PM  

It’s never too late to Believe.

Blogger Taignobias July 17, 2018 12:10 PM  

I'm still praying for his redemption, that many atheists might be shaken awake and brought to Christ

Blogger Keyser Soze July 17, 2018 12:14 PM  

Or as Kratman says « don’t get into a religious war without your religion »

Blogger Ingemar July 17, 2018 12:15 PM  

Or is that just my cultural upbringing?

Cultural relativism: Not even once.

Blogger Lurker July 17, 2018 12:22 PM  

He helped the demonic "religion" of Islam take over by brainwashing lots of English to believe in nothing. Cause meet effect.

Blogger RB July 17, 2018 12:25 PM  

Vox, based on what you pointed out in The Irrational Atheist, the belief he currently subscribes to has been at the root of war, death, and suffering - much more so than any religion. Do you think he is capable of accepting that?

Blogger Purge187 July 17, 2018 12:28 PM  

He's come around. Good.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jul/24/richard-dawkins-event-cancelled-over-his-abusive-speech-against-islam

Blogger Ingemar July 17, 2018 12:44 PM  

@11 Atheism also provides a limitless justification for falsehood. Why do you think internet atheists act like innocent little lambs despite their revolutionaries slaughtering clergy and lay believers by the tens of millions? Because they memory-holed it, of course!

Blogger Torin July 17, 2018 12:53 PM  

Religion is like the Army. A necessary evil in a world with competing goods and evils.

Blogger MAethelflaed July 17, 2018 12:57 PM  

Dawkins has always seemed quite fond of the culture, aesthetics and so on that go along with Christianity (better known as Western civilization). He just seems to be under the illusion that you can maintain that culture while dispensing with any supernatural or overtly religious aspects of Christianity.

I admit I believed the same for a long time. It was the recent 'migrant crisis' in Europe that finally made me wake up and realize what happens if we get rid of Christianity. We don't get lovely, tolerant secular humanism to fill the vacuum; we get Islam. We get what we deserve for our pride and our sins (gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle...).

I do believe Dawkins is more than half-way to knowing this (in fact, he probably already knows it and has done for a long time). The question is whether his intellectual pride will allow him to climb down and admit he's made an entire career out of being wrong. I pray for him.

Blogger Elijah July 17, 2018 12:58 PM  

it is funny that some leftist atheists are beginning to re think their policy of trying to destroy all Christians and replacing them with mooslems. the nice Christians just tried to love them but the nice mooslems will kill them along with the gays and woman and everyone else. once you let the death cult loose, they will eventually turn on you!

Blogger Thumos July 17, 2018 1:02 PM  

I love all the Indian/Middle Eastern names tweeting angrily at a real Englishman, loathsome as he can be, with words like "mate." Little do they know they have to go back.

Blogger Dire Badger July 17, 2018 1:04 PM  

a Little bit OT, but Why I like Christian White people:

A couple of days ago I received a mysterious large donation to my paypal account.

On further research, I discovered that it was a Cardiologist who lived about 45 minutes away. I sent him an email requesting information and discovered he had sent it to the wrong address.

I quickly returned it with the following message:

"I am just pleased to find out I indirectly met a guy who's devoted his life to saving others. That's like finding out your next door neighbor is a 30 year veteran Fireman."

To which he replied:

"I tried to call you yesterday to personally thank you for your honesty and even more for your too kind words in your last email.

Yes, I did get your deposit to PayPal. I am sorry I created this event yet have had my faith increased in the innate goodness of many and you specifically.

I have saved a few lives but have the opportunity to have my life blessed by the very many who allow me to develop a close relationship with them.

The more I have learned to listen with the heart rather than just listening to the heart, the more enriched my life experience has become.

I have much to be thankful for and can now count you as one."

Damn, that feels about a thousand times better than ANYTHING the money could have bought.

Blogger Doug Cranmer July 17, 2018 1:05 PM  

In Mississauga, Ontario, a guy named Mohammed backed into a car in a parking lot and beaten senseless by its two occupants in front of his family.

The two brothers have a Serbian last name.

Serbs and Muslims in Canada.
What could go wrong?

Blogger VD July 17, 2018 1:08 PM  

Do you think he is capable of accepting that?

No.

Blogger Unknown July 17, 2018 1:09 PM  

They know

Blogger Salt July 17, 2018 1:16 PM  

“The sweetest sound I know is the Muslim call to prayer” - Obama

Blogger L' Aristokrato July 17, 2018 1:27 PM  

Imagine moi shawk!!!

Blogger Sithicus July 17, 2018 1:29 PM  

@20 - Serbs are very good at removing kebab.

Blogger Cloudswrest July 17, 2018 1:32 PM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOdDYS8PNPw

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia July 17, 2018 1:36 PM  

Doug Cranmer wrote:In Mississauga, Ontario, a guy named Mohammed backed into a car in a parking lot and beaten senseless by its two occupants in front of his family.

The two brothers have a Serbian last name.

Serbs and Muslims in Canada.

What could go wrong?


One way you avoid ethnic cleansing is by avoiding ethnic mixing.

Of course, that's not to excuse a beat down due to a fender bender.

Blogger Lovekraft July 17, 2018 1:44 PM  

@ 13 Ingemar:

here's a sampling of the modern atheist level of tolerance and rationality. A reddit post yesterday under, of all places, r/funny, took a swipe at Christianity.

I commented about how atheists, people who claim to not care in the least about religion, seem to be obsessed with Christianity. Expected deluge of butthurt ensued.

https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/8zdre7/explain_this/

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 17, 2018 1:58 PM  

KPKinSunnyPhiladelpia wrote:One way you avoid ethnic cleansing is by avoiding ethnic mixing.

Of course, that's not to excuse a beat down due to a fender bender.


Beating someone named Mohammed is always appropriate. Mohammed has to go back.

Blogger RobertT July 17, 2018 2:05 PM  

Soros & Dawkins simultaneously come to the realization their life's work was a waste of time.

Blogger ace July 17, 2018 2:09 PM  

"For as long as I can remember, my head has been attached to my body." Dawkins cucked. Muhammad grabbed his shoulder and shoved him forward onto the stump, then raised the huge scimitar over his head. "Maybe that's just my cultural--"

Blogger Daniel Babylon July 17, 2018 2:13 PM  

@28 your first mistake was going to Reddit

Blogger Doug Cranmer July 17, 2018 2:17 PM  

Serbs, too.

As one person described them, "Nazis, but without the fashion sense."

Blogger S1AL July 17, 2018 2:31 PM  

"Of course, that's not to excuse a beat down due to a fender bender."

I'm not quite sure you understand how Eastern Europeans feel about Muslims. The fender bender was merely the excuse.

Blogger Peter Gent July 17, 2018 2:34 PM  

Dire Badger wrote:Damn, that feels about a thousand times better than ANYTHING the money could have bought.
There is an old aphorism: "Virtue is its own reward." I would add that what virtue buys can never be bought by money.

Blogger bearspaw July 17, 2018 2:39 PM  

@33
The attackers are, in fact, Bosnian muslims.Oh the sweet irony.

Blogger S1AL July 17, 2018 2:53 PM  

Statement stands. That just means they hate *everyone*.

Blogger Nate73 July 17, 2018 3:02 PM  

When is he going to accept that the only thing on the menu is Aloha Snackbar?

Blogger Paul M July 17, 2018 3:05 PM  

@3 "When Benedict Arnold, a great and indispensable officer who turned traitor"

Or returned to his original, true loyalty. God, King, and Country. Never forget that the "founding fathers" were all traitors to the crown, quasi-atheists who sought to establish a "Novus Ordo Seclorum" and did so, a country rooted in nothing but feel-good notions about "rights" granted by a deist "God" of their own invention.

Blogger ace July 17, 2018 3:28 PM  

@Paul M

This would make a good Galaxy brain meme
Tiny stupid brain: Everyone is American
Enlightned brain: only the posterity of the founders are Americans
Galaxy brain: No one is American

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey July 17, 2018 3:30 PM  

Dawkins was a pioneer of evolutionary biology. That's quite the gig if you can swing it, because you can just pull stuff out of your butt all day long. You look at this or that trait or behavior, then rationalize your way back through an evolutionary explanation that seems plausible, and you make sure it confirms the appropriate biases. You're an instant praised genius with cred, didn't even have to add water.

It's quite the scam. Take care not to let it go to your head, though, and to believe your own press, as Dawkins did.

Blogger S1AL July 17, 2018 3:31 PM  

'Never forget that the "founding fathers" were all traitors to the crown, quasi-atheists who sought to establish a "Novus Ordo Seclorum" and did so, a country rooted in nothing but feel-good notions about "rights" granted by a deist "God" of their own invention.'

Yeahhhh... You gotta go back.

Blogger Da Man July 17, 2018 3:35 PM  

Never heard of the guy

Blogger DraveckysHumerus July 17, 2018 3:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus July 17, 2018 3:43 PM  

38. Nate73
Related anecdote. Down the street they just opened a walk-by takeout poké joint. You order raw fish and veggies online, tap your phone against exterior glass and an arm thrusts a bag with your sealed bowl of food through a window. You can eat your snack on local benches. So when the wife and I stroll or jog by this poké peddler I bow with arms extended and shout "alhoa snackbar," which is the business name, three times which of course embarrasses her mightily. I have noticed at least a few folks who appreciate my terrible brand of humor or at least the hiliarity of a wife jamming her elbow in hubbies' ribs.

Blogger cheddarman July 17, 2018 3:52 PM  

Dawkins. History will not be kind to him, and his fellow travelers.

Blogger Cassandros the Elder July 17, 2018 4:21 PM  

Fish may not know they swim in water, but they can sure tell when they're out of it.

Blogger Miguel July 17, 2018 4:34 PM  

Atheism is a temporary tool of the Babylonian pedo-satanic faith. Once its usefullnes is gone, that,tool is tossed away like chewed chewing gum. The same with feminism, sodomite "rights" and other subversive ideias.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 17, 2018 4:51 PM  

qualitycontrol wrote:I saved this meme from /pol/ some time ago. I think it fits the situation.

https://imgur.com/a/iEZLlQt


I'm sorry to say... this has been my journey exactly.

I wish my faith was greater.

Blogger The Surly Beaver July 17, 2018 5:14 PM  

You're confusing us with Croats.

Blogger The Surly Beaver July 17, 2018 5:17 PM  

You're confusing us with Croats.

Blogger cheddarman July 17, 2018 5:37 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus July 17, 2018 6:17 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Solon July 17, 2018 6:31 PM  

Legit... I've been through the exact same journey.

I skipped step 4 though. The fact that I'm alive today is due to a legitimate miracle, I cannot rationalize it any other way (Lord knows I've tried).

Going backwards from step 5 to step 4 is much easier than going from 4 to 5, gotta say.

Blogger Johnny July 17, 2018 7:12 PM  

@3 "When Benedict Arnold, a great and indispensable officer who turned traitor"

@39 Or returned to his original, true loyalty. God, King, and Country.

Arnold's loyalty was to Arnold. That is what it is when somebody can switch sides. He went from supporting the revolution to attempting to set up a British colony west of the mountains.

Blogger Dire Badger July 17, 2018 7:31 PM  

qualitycontrol wrote:https://imgur.com/a/iEZLlQt

Dang...

Blogger Dire Badger July 17, 2018 7:34 PM  

"Never Trust a Traitor. Not even one you've made."
-BVH

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2018 8:20 PM  

"Atheism is a temporary tool of the Babylonian pedo-satanic faith. Once its usefullnes is gone, that,tool is tossed away like chewed chewing gum."

Smaller evils that network with bigger ones always end up eaten by the bigger ones.

Blogger Kevin Blackwell July 17, 2018 8:25 PM  

He's also rethinking cannibalism. As in now he thinks it's a good idea to eat humans. He has just traded one stupidity for another.

Blogger daedal July 17, 2018 8:48 PM  

"Never forget that the "founding fathers" were all traitors to the crown, quasi-atheists who sought to establish a "Novus Ordo Seclorum" and did so, a country rooted in nothing but feel-good notions about "rights" granted by a deist "God" of their own invention."

Yeahhhh... You gotta go back.

I share this same confusion regarding the alt-right's continued embrace of 'America' or 'traditional America' as an example of a Christian/Western nation. I'm sure Vox has addressed this but I'm new here and was still looking for an explanation when I saw this comment. Is 'America' not one grand progressive experiment since its inception, despite its Christian traces?



Blogger daedal July 17, 2018 9:24 PM  

PS. Putting aside the greater religious debate, the aesthetic of the human voice will always trump a mechanical instrument imo.

Blogger Whitecloak July 17, 2018 9:25 PM  

Only in age does Dawkins realize the truth, that a vacuum invites trouble.

Blogger wreckage July 17, 2018 9:34 PM  

@60 America was at least in part reactionary from the outset, seeking to roll back the "progress" of British law and enshrine formally the traditional rights of Englishmen, as they had been understood for centuries.
To bear arms, the sovereignty of the householder:
"The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail — its roof may shake — the wind may blow through it — the storm may enter — the rain may enter — but the King of England cannot enter — all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement!"

these are all traditional British notions, today preserved no-where on earth but the USA, and being eroded even there, albeit more slowly.

Blogger S1AL July 17, 2018 9:41 PM  

"I share this same confusion regarding the alt-right's continued embrace of 'America' or 'traditional America' as an example of a Christian/Western nation. I'm sure Vox has addressed this but I'm new here and was still looking for an explanation when I saw this comment. Is 'America' not one grand progressive experiment since its inception, despite its Christian traces?"

Short answer: no.

Long answer: you are clearly unaware of the evening complex history of government systems, "nations", nation-states, empires, religious conflicts, and so forth that led to the American experiment. It's not even unique in development or system of government (see: Switzerland).

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 17, 2018 10:03 PM  

I was thinking back to when I was Christian, have I since been free to indulge in what would otherwise be considered sinful activities? I don't think so. If anything my depth of moral guidance has only grown stronger. This suggests to me that the issue here is probably developmental. That's a shame. I think I'll trial Zen meditation again... Let's see how that works.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2018 10:19 PM  

"I don't think so."

That's how rationalizations work, Meng.

Blogger Lazarus July 17, 2018 10:56 PM  

I think I'll trial Zen meditation again... Let's see how that works.

Works for what? What is the goal here?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 17, 2018 11:11 PM  

Religion as self-gratification.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 18, 2018 4:48 AM  

@Whitecloak

”Only in age does Dawkins realize the truth, that a vacuum invites trouble.

Everyone knows that “nature abhors a vacuum” but few contemplate that she fills it with whatever is loose at hand.

This is not, you will note, the ideal method of choosing either immigrants or philosophies...

Blogger Dirk Manly July 19, 2018 1:56 AM  

@27

"One way you avoid ethnic cleansing is by avoiding ethnic mixing.

Of course, that's not to excuse a beat down due to a fender bender."

It's a beat down due to being a member of the death-cult that has done great harm, even in recent times, to his family, friends, and countrymen.

The fender-bender was merely the opportunity for some well-deserved retribution to the Ummah.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 19, 2018 9:48 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"I don't think so."

That's how rationalizations work, Meng.
That's probably true. I'll think about it.

Lazarus wrote:I think I'll trial Zen meditation again... Let's see how that works.

Works for what? What is the goal here?
Well, there's some evidence that breathing techniques (exemplified by Zen meditation - that's pretty much all they focused on) divert blood away from the somatosensory cortex decreasing its function. The S1 maps the body to the brain (mainly for touch). Ultimately this creates a feeling of Oneness. I think I used to feel something a little like this when I was a kid, laying in bed on a Saturday and warmed by a sunbeam. Anyway, it may also be that this process has an affect on hippocampal neuroplasticity. Perhaps that plasticity is required to feel religious.

VOXDAY once linked an article that detailed decreased brain function in strong atheists. I was thinking this could a sort of rehabilitation?

Anyway, it was just a thought.

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