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Monday, July 16, 2018

Hultgreen-Curie Syndrome in the US Navy

No wonder the Chinese are confidently expanding their blue water navy and asserting their control over the South China Sea. The gender-integrated U.S. Navy can't even manage to sail straight without getting its sailors killed.
In an 11-hour hearing, prosecutors painted a picture of Lt. Irian Woodley, the ship’s surface warfare coordinator, and Lt. Natalie Combs, the tactical action officer, as failing at their jobs, not using the tools at their disposal properly and not communicating adequately. They became complacent with faulty equipment and did not seek to get it fixed, and they failed to communicate with the bridge, the prosecution argued. Had they done those things, the government contended, they would have been able to avert the collision.

That two of the officers — Coppock and Combs — involved in this fatal incident were female suggests that discipline and training standards have been lowered for the sake of “gender integration,” which was a major policy push at the Pentagon during the Obama administration. It could be that senior officers, knowing their promotions may hinge on enthusiastic support for “gender integration,” are reluctant to enforce standards for the women under their command.

This was the story of Kara Hultgreen, the Navy pilot who died in a 1994 F-14 crash. Investigation showed that Hultgreen had been allowed to proceed in her training after errors that would have meant a washout for any male pilot. But the Clinton administration was pushing for female fighter pilots, which resulted in a competition between the Navy and Air Force to put women into these combat roles. It is not necessary to believe that (a) women shouldn’t be fighter pilots, in order to believe (b) lowering standards for the sake of quotas is a bad idea. Of course, you may believe both (a) and (b), but it is (b) that gets people killed.

It seems obvious that the Pentagon (and the liberal media) sought to suppress full knowledge of what happened to the Fitzgerald in the immediate aftermath of the June 2017 incident that killed seven sailors, in the same way the details of Kara Hultgreen’s death were suppressed. It took investigative reporters like Rowan Scarborough of the Washington Times a lot of hard work to find out what actually happened to Hultgreen. Let’s hope other reporters will dig into what’s happening in our military with the “gender intergration” agenda at the Pentagon now.
The Navy has followed the usual pattern. Declare that women are just as good as men. Discover that they're not, for one reason or another. Deny that this is true while simultaneously lowering their standards. Dissemble about the reasons things are no longer working the way they should.

This is what the end of empire looks like. One stupid, indefensible decision after another.

UPDATE: Even the famous Gurkhas are being converged.
The Gurkhas are set to open up their ranks to women for the first time. The group, who have served in the British Army for more than 200 years will allow female soldiers to join from next year, but they will have to pass the same gruelling selection test the men do.
That's what they always say. And then, when the women can't pass it, they lower the standards. It never ceases to amaze me how no organization ever seems to look at what happened to similar organizations that already did what they are contemplating.

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57 Comments:

Blogger Steve July 16, 2018 5:02 AM  

They became complacent with faulty equipment and did not seek to get it fixed, and they failed to communicate with the bridge

Well, to be fair a man should've known what was wrong without these ladies having to ask.

Blogger JACIII July 16, 2018 5:22 AM  

I can remember reading about the similar sorry state of repair of Soviet warships during the cold war. We have been sunk to the level of Soviet readiness and efficiency by, ironically, Cultural Marxism. Defeated by a long dead empire.

Blogger Mark Stoval July 16, 2018 5:25 AM  

"One stupid, indefensible decision after another."

Many in my family have served in the Navy. This is something the men talk about.

The latest for us was my brother's son-in-law who was forced to retire because he was not promoted. A "lady" was needed. Numbers you know.

Blogger Attila is my bro July 16, 2018 5:47 AM  

I don't even want to know what's happening in the Marine Corps. I got a tiny taste of the sand-in-my-pussy excuses way back when they first started pushing female Marines. I prefer to remember things as they were than find out how much of a basket case things have become.

One bit of knowledge I can't run from - a friend's daughter joined the Marines and she is becoming a drill instructor. His photos of her as a young woman are very pretty and very feminine. Now she looks like she's jacked up on steroids and she came out of the closet as a lesbian.

I get the whole "I want to me a man" thing as an attraction to man stuff, but I always figured the only reason a woman would join the Corps would be access to men they couldn't otherwise have. So what's the point for lesbians? The disrespect they'll receive is double that of the straight-uglies.

Blogger Mark Stoval July 16, 2018 5:49 AM  

Some folks might like a refresher on the meaning of the term "Curie-Hultgreen Syndrome" and a good look at the term coined by vox Day can be seen here:

https://didactsreach.blogspot.com/2013/10/defining-curie-hultgreen-syndrome.html

Blogger Silent Draco July 16, 2018 5:56 AM  

There's an eerie thread common to HCS, the movement to make everything Herstory, the Matriarchy, and all the Goddees cults: "Earth must be fed."

It's our blood and pain (men) that's the food.

Blogger McChuck July 16, 2018 5:58 AM  

The Leftist war on reality continues. This is just another front.

The principle of leftism isn't to lie. It's to make you lie, and therefore become complicit. How many fingers, Winston?

Blogger Paul M July 16, 2018 6:11 AM  

Apparently, Woodley and Combs were not speaking to one another. So much for "emotional intelligence". Men are able to work with people that they don't like. Women, no so much.

Blogger szopen July 16, 2018 6:12 AM  

Offtopic:

If anyone feels like trolling, a piece of advice: any time anyone from the left will mention Marie Curie, attack them as sexist. Then proceed to explain that Marie Curie signed her second diploma as "Marie Curie-Skłodowska" and to ignore her choice is not just imperialist, but also unwoke and supporting white French patriarchy. I was thinking also about polonophobia, but I do not think it would work.

I must admit I had rather limited success with my attempts, but I was discussing with half-serious people. It would be fun to check how it would work on REAL SJWs.

Blogger Zwiebel July 16, 2018 6:14 AM  

Reading this I couldn't help but think: a warship full of women. Sounds like a hilarious set up for really TV.

Blogger kapy53 July 16, 2018 6:35 AM  

This reminds me of a recent recruitment ad for the National Guard I saw. It featured mostly women of "color" and advertised only the free healthcare, student loans and low mortgage one gets for joining. Absolutely nowhere was there a sense of duty or pride of serving the nation.

Blogger Sherwood family July 16, 2018 6:39 AM  

This is a result of political power plays among the elite.

The elites secure power to themselves by promising status, positions, and wealth to favored clients. Then they send around the political commissars to tell you that you must meet the quota for those favored clients. To do so you keep lowering the standards until you meet the quota. Then when all hell breaks loose you are the one to blame for putting unqualified people in these positions.

This is a perfect example of what Spandrell from Bloody Shovel calls Bioleninism: the elite promote the genetically, physically, mentally and socially incapable to positions they should not hold so that their loyalty is to the elite who can use them as shock troops to maintain their hold on power.

Blogger James Jones July 16, 2018 6:41 AM  

Useful. Thanks.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 16, 2018 6:47 AM  


Reading this I couldn't help but think: a warship full of women. Sounds like a hilarious set up for really TV.


Ms Roberts?

Blogger Tim from Nashua July 16, 2018 6:57 AM  

Clayton Hartwig, USS Iowa turret explosion. 'Cuz Gheys in the military are a great idea. sarc/off

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 16, 2018 7:00 AM  

Lowering Standards could be the slogan of every failing civilization.

Want more fee-paying university graduates? Lower education standards.

Want more borrowers of your inflated currency units? Lower banking standards.

Want more women freaks and perverts in the military? Lower fighting standards.

Want to pretend women do STEM careers as well as men? Lower standards (objectivity is a cultural artifact of the patriarchy, officially).

Etc, ad infinitum.

The delusion of the ruling class is that their (de)predations on civilization don’t matter; society will survive and prosper anyway and even if some periodic catastrophe should occur they will be immune.

Every generation has to learn the lesson that every generation has to teach the lesson that actions have consequences.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2018 7:19 AM  

The Ghurkas are less of an issue.

The women of those tribes probably won't enlist.

I assume it's the Brit MOD that's pushing this idiocy.

Blogger Sillon Bono July 16, 2018 7:19 AM  

The army should shut up and "Respek Wahmen. (TM)"

Blogger CarpeOro July 16, 2018 7:29 AM  

@16
Need more Roman citizens to tax? Extend citizenship to all that reside in the borders of the empire. Yes, this problem is a recurring one for empires on the wane.

At a party this week with some retired enlisted, heard considerable abuse heaped on the MarySue Star Wars. I can only imagine what they would have said if they had heard about this story - I'm sure the marine and the grunt would have given me endless crap. I also offer a prayer of thanks that the son of one of them didn't end up enlisting in the Air Farce. This kind of stuff is why I fully expect a second term for Trump if he lives long enough. The SJWs either don't understand they have reached peak rejection of reality - where reality starts hitting back hard - or are doubling down. Either way, things are going to kick in harder.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 16, 2018 7:37 AM  

How much you want to bet those gals sat down and cried after the dastardly patriarchal Flips rammed our freedom delivery ship? Or that in their fits of hysterics it became all about them?

Blogger CarpeOro July 16, 2018 7:40 AM  

@17
Don't be oversold on the Brits as the full cause. The monarchy was abolished and the communists were the party in power in 2012. Plenty of homegrown idiocy there.

Blogger Cloom Glue July 16, 2018 7:45 AM  

Official policy of non-merit female 50% assignment of government minister posts has taken hold in Quebec 2007, Canada 2015, British Columbia 2017. For example, Trudeau had one quarter women and three quarters men elected, which is a high female count achieved by forcing female nominations into the ridings, and then he omitted superior elected men from selection for department leadership posts to force a quota outcome of half women half men.

Blogger Silent Draco July 16, 2018 8:01 AM  

Back in the early 80s, Cloom Glue, I saw a lot of handmade signs announcing the "I Slept with Margaret Trudeau Fan Club." Apparently Father's Day in Canada is still too painful for him.

Moar girls cauz so there!

Blogger Dirk Manly July 16, 2018 8:13 AM  

@2

"I can remember reading about the similar sorry state of repair of Soviet warships during the cold war. We have been sunk to the level of Soviet readiness and efficiency by, "

Yet even then, the Soviet Navy didn't have ships crashing into each other. The Officer on Bridge, sonar or no, radar or no, was at least smart enough to use his Mark I Eyeball to assess the situation around him, and avoid any preventable collisions.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 16, 2018 8:16 AM  

I don't believe in putting women in charge of ANYTHING. That said, if I *WERE* in charge, this problem would go away quickly.
I guess I'd just have to fire myself, afterward.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( a spew of word vomit ... ¡loosely connecting!, his ellipses ... by an eclectic assortment of randomly applied punctuation marks; within his parentheticals? ) ) July 16, 2018 8:20 AM  

speaking of stupid women behaving stupidly
...
and getting their White Knights pulped
...

we've got an ArsTechFag who has just been punched in the face by the Real World:

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1434403

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 16, 2018 8:22 AM  

The 207 comments over at that link are informative, the best defense given to the officers was the usual "men have done worse", so that excuse is one of the reasons why the Empire's armed forces are trending down in effectiveness.

Blogger Sherwood family July 16, 2018 8:28 AM  

That item from ArsTechnica was freaking hilarious. The more hilarious thing was the comment thread where someone named Hoos was talking about the ability of women to fight. Yeah...that's going to work out well for all involved. I hold Joss Whedon personally responsible for making women believe that they can go toe to toe with men. Stupid Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Oh well, Whedon got what he wanted out of the deal I guess.

Blogger cheddarman July 16, 2018 8:41 AM  

The USN slandered the dead sailor Hartwig to cover their screw up. he was not gay nor did he cause the explosion

Blogger Northwest Watching Thing July 16, 2018 8:55 AM  

"They became complacent with faulty equipment and did not seek to get it fixed"

I was in the Navy on subs (male only, thank goodness), got out 12 years ago. I worked with quite a few stupid and immature people, but at the end of the day we all knew that our lives depend on that equipment working properly. I'm usually not one to get angry, but I'm getting worked up just thinking about these people.

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 16, 2018 8:59 AM  

Perhaps he should read the “Lets you and him fight” section of Games People Play.

Might stand him in better stead than some bullshit corporate team building course.

Blogger Nate July 16, 2018 9:02 AM  

a pic of smashed ship with a joke about women being bad drivers could be brutally effective.

Blogger Azimus July 16, 2018 9:23 AM  

Every time I drive past a road construction and the only women on-site are the ones standing around holding the stop/slow signs to direct traffic, I am reminded of the Hultgreen-Curie syndrome and America's almost philosophical hatred of its own men. I'm sure in times past, if some of the guys were ailing from the hard work, they'd take a half-day on these signs to give their backs a rest. Now the women do this "job" full time, and the men work til they ruin their backs and require expensive surgeries that and the eventual permanent disability status that I have to pay for as the taxpayer (and also another male). But hey that butch drug-addled female gets to go home and tell her niece that she builds roads! Its so worth it!

Blogger Rex Little July 16, 2018 9:31 AM  

That's what they always say. And then, when the women can't pass it, they lower the standards.

Are there any examples of formerly all-male organizations which let women in but didn't lower their standards, or worry about how few women could meet them?

Blogger Peter Gent July 16, 2018 9:55 AM  

Resident Moron™ wrote:

Reading this I couldn't help but think: a warship full of women. Sounds like a hilarious set up for really TV.


Ms Roberts?


No, The Last Jedi...

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey July 16, 2018 9:59 AM  

Navy ships should have been the pass/fail test case for the entire question of women in the military. Crew on a naval vessel are cogs in a machine, under an aggressively enforced inflexible hierarchy. Or rather, crews on any well-functioning machine that is a naval vessel are like that.

Throw a bunch of young women into that mix and viola the level of drama introduced blows everything straight to the moon. Good luck maintaining the posture of a well-tuned fighting machine at that point. Sorry, that's human nature at work.

Blogger Hammerli280 July 16, 2018 10:03 AM  

@33 Azimus: You raise a good point. Women absorb the low-stress jobs that men used to rotate into for rest and recuperation. Which in turn burns the men out much faster. And we see this in the military quite frequently.

Blogger Sam July 16, 2018 10:10 AM  

@12
An alternate model is Jim's status competition. Warriors (redgov) versus Priests (bluegov). Bluegov hates Redgov and so it does whatever it can to shit on them- in this case by dumping incompetent people on them.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 16, 2018 10:10 AM  

Honestly the biggest pain in the ass I had was managing women.

You had to be very, very careful with female shitbirds, everyone of them would shriek sexual harassment if you tried to write them up.

And in the military, the burden of proof is very much reversed there.

It didn't matter how good you were or how terrible she was. If you got accused it was a guaranteed career killer.

Normally you gave the bad ones some non-duty over something out of the way and prayed that you would be assigned a descent female NCO that you could put in charge of her.

Over all, discipline for female Marines was strictly a voluntary matter on their part.

The real pain in the ass was when they would get into catfights with each other and then bring their boyfriends into it. Their boyfriends invariably being Sergeants.

Which would put me in the position of coming down hard on guys who were good enough Marines in every other way but they just had to get into it with each other over some damn chicks.

Blogger MB July 16, 2018 10:31 AM  

"This is what the end of empire looks like".

I remember reading about examples of old Roman virtue, Mucius Scaevola, the first Brutus, Scipio, Cato, in contrast to the corruption and decay of Augustus's time. The prevalent opinion among modern historians is that this was an exaggeration for rhetorical purposes.
But what if Titus Livius and others knew what they were writing about? What if the Roman empire kept going long past its expiration date based on good organization, superior engineering, and sheer numbers, after Romans stopped being virtuous and the citizen army was replaced by a professional army and mercenaries?

Quite clearly, the corruption of the aristocracy, of the inhabitants of Rome, and of emperors such as Nero and Caligula wasn't enough to destroy the empire or even put a dent into it. They were followed by virtuous emperors, such as Vespasian, Nerva, Trajan, and many others, who ruled over a golden age of the empire. The empire was never stronger or bigger than during the 2nd century.

So I think the US empire (as opposed to republic) quite likely hasn't even begun and still has many centuries ahead.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 16, 2018 10:50 AM  

@38

"An alternate model is Jim's status competition. Warriors (redgov) versus Priests (bluegov). Bluegov hates Redgov and so it does whatever it can to shit on them- in this case by dumping incompetent people on them."

Redgov is going to chop of Bluegov's head, and shit down it's neck.

Blogger Brett baker July 16, 2018 10:54 AM  

Unfortunately, it appears the male officers above them were drama queens, too.

Blogger VoodooJock July 16, 2018 11:39 AM  

The soon to be former Lt. Natalie Coombs is black. The raciss mafia has been strangely silent on this matter.

One can only imagine in the interactions between the two women involved....

Blogger pyrrhus July 16, 2018 11:47 AM  

@40 So I think the US empire (as opposed to republic) quite likely hasn't even begun and still has many centuries ahead.

The Roman Empire was about the size of the current EU, because every time it tried to expand in Parthia's direction, it got slaughtered wholesale...Rome operated off tribute from its vassals...The US "empire" bribes its vassals with large amounts of cash, which it extorts from Americans...So the US is where Rome was in the late 4th century, just before it was overrun.

Blogger Hammerli280 July 16, 2018 12:39 PM  

I recollect kicking the women-aboard-ship problem around with a Chief thirty years ago. We concluded that there was a danger zone...one or two women could be considered guests. Around 30% or higher might work out, it would be representative of the shore world. In between...probably trouble.

Right now, the number is about 15%.

Blogger justaguy July 16, 2018 1:23 PM  

"Women are just as good as men, but really they are better", "Everyone is a blank slate and it is XXX privilege that you are in the high performing job you are in", "magic dirt" and many many more--when a society/civilization begins to refuse to acknowledge reality and instead relies of new myths without taking into account the "complexities of human nature and society" disaster happens. see E. Burke "Reflections on the French Revolution"

Blogger Nikephoros II Phokas July 16, 2018 1:24 PM  

Kick women out of the military and then make military service a requirement for voting.

Blogger DonReynolds July 16, 2018 1:29 PM  

Once again, the Leftists demonstrate their own unique ability to slobber and talk out both sides of their mouth at the same time. The reason why they MUST do that is that they must LIE continuously. When what they insist MUST be true (due to their false ideology) they must soon advocate actions that will MAKE it true.

"Women are equal to men and to prove it, we are going to hold them to different standards."

It is the same with all the rest of the egalitarian nonsense. There is no universal equality because people are not machines (even machines are not equal).

If people were actually equal and they needed a dozen new fighter pilots, they would simply train the next dozen people willing to do the job.

THE FACT that people are not equal is the reason we have Human Resources departments. THE FACT that people are not equal is the reason we use competitive examinations. THE FACT that people are not equal is the reason people are promoted to their level of incompetency (Peter Principle). THE FACT that people are not equal is the reason we bother to do background checks and credit checks.

We do everything in the world to ensure that most (white) people end up working at their capability and do not have too much incompetence for the work expected. That means that people are not equal.

It is impossible to have preferential treatment of any group of people and still insist everyone is equal without looking like a fool.

Blogger EricW July 16, 2018 1:30 PM  

bob kek mando - ( a spew of word vomit ... ¡loosely connecting!, his ellipses ... by an eclectic assortment of randomly applied punctuation marks; within his parentheticals? ) ) wrote:speaking of stupid women behaving stupidly

...

and getting their White Knights pulped

...

we've got an ArsTechFag who has just been punched in the face by the Real World:

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1434403



Sorry a bit off the topic but WTF does "Whelp" mean in the title of that post? Is that soy-boy talk, kind of like "waah poor me"? Seems rather embarrassing to the writer.

Blogger Blastman July 16, 2018 2:00 PM  

Woman driver … YT

… hmmmm …. I don't think I hit it hard enough the first time, … think I'll go for a second shot.

Blogger SciVo July 16, 2018 2:20 PM  

prosecutors painted a picture of Lt. Irian Woodley, the ship’s surface warfare coordinator, and Lt. Natalie Combs, the tactical action officer, as failing at their jobs, not using the tools at their disposal properly and not communicating adequately. They became complacent with faulty equipment and did not seek to get it fixed, and they failed to communicate

But enough about their sex lives...

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 16, 2018 2:24 PM  

HIGHWAY... TO... THE... DANGER ZONE
GONNA TAKE IT RIGHT... INTO... THE... DANGER ZONE

Blogger bob kek mando - ( a spew of word vomit ... ¡loosely connecting!, his ellipses ... by an eclectic assortment of randomly applied punctuation marks; within his parentheticals? ) ) July 16, 2018 10:05 PM  

49. EricW July 16, 2018 1:30 PM
WTF does "Whelp" mean in the title of that post? Is that soy-boy talk, kind of like "waah poor me"? Seems rather embarrassing to the writer.


a - the writer should be embarrassed
... that after getting a concussion and head wound and a beating he permitted the retarded fucking bimbos who got him injured to "require" that he attend a "mandatory" team building meeting
...
even though he had been sitting in the hospital all night and had only gotten one hour of sleep.


b - "whelp" has been around forever ( in internet years ). you'll often see it spelled "welp".

it's not actually a call for help but rather is often used as a sort of interjection denoting that you just screwed something up. however you use it, it's simply a variant of "oh well".

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Welp

Blogger Ryan G July 17, 2018 8:03 AM  

I remember a surface fleet guy telling me that at the end of every carrier tour they had to swap out their pregnant females for non-pregnant ones. Common sense would tell you that this would never be feasible during a wartime scenario, and that it adversely impacts the ship's readiness. But from what this guy said, it's a fairly common occurrence.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 17, 2018 2:55 PM  

@15
Except that's not what really happened on USS Iowa -- that was the Navy's cover story that they leaked to the press.

At the time of the turret explosion, the ship was conducting an "experiment" dreamed up by Master Chief Fire Controlman Stephen Skelley and LCDR Kenneth Michael Costigan, using "supercharged" powder and experimental shells. They (falsely) told the Iowa's CO that NAVSEA had approved these "experiments."

Turret Two's gun chief, Senior Chief Reggie Ziegler, turned down Skelley's request to use the turret for his experiments, so Skelley went around him to the turret's officer in charge, Lieutenant Phil Buch, who consented.

At the time of the explosion, Turret Two was participating in one of these experiments using D-846 powder to fire a 2700 lb shell. The D-846 powder was manufactured in 1943-46, was designed to fire 1900 lb shells, and had been improperly stored in conditions of high heat and humidity for months before being loaded on the Iowa. Clearly printed on each of these powder canisters was the message "WARNING: Do Not Use with 2,700-pound projectiles."

The initial cleanup destroyed much of the evidence -- the Navy's conclusions were largely speculative. But it was certainly convenient for them to blame it on a couple of junior enlisted men, rather than a systemic/ leadership problem.

Remember the Challenger explosion? The "Let's keep cutting corners until something fails catastrophically" attitude? "Design limitations? What are those?" Same philosophy.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 17, 2018 3:40 PM  

we've got an ArsTechFag who has just been punched in the face by the Real World:

At least he was rewarded for his White Knightery:

"I see the woman I saved or attempted to making some jokes about it made me realize I need to stay the f**k away from her."

Heh. Perhaps a broader conclusion could be drawn from this particular sequence of events? Apparently not.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 17, 2018 4:19 PM  

@49

"Sorry a bit off the topic but WTF does "Whelp" mean in the title of that post?"

Whenever I have heard someone start a sentance with "Whelp", it's always followed by something negative. The essence I derive from it is:

"Well, I give up ; "

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