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Saturday, July 14, 2018

Mailvox: created equality

AP observes that equality is ideology, not theology:
Good response to Rob re: being "created in the image of God" on this morning's post. I hadn't thought of that one.

I did a little research into the use of the words "equal" and "equality" in the Bible not too long ago that turns out to support the point you're making. The words are never used in the Genesis account (as you probably already have noticed), and while erek (the Hebrew) and isotes (Greek for "fairness") appear here and there throughout scripture, at no point are they used to describe any sort of equality in God's eyes between one man and another. That concept is simply not there in our Bibles, whether in Testaments Old or New.

Further, to say that two people are both "created in the image of God" is not the same as saying they are equally created in the image of God. There are always more accurate likenesses and less accurate likenesses, as we all know from portraiture, genetics and funhouse mirrors.

Even among Christians there is no "equality" in the sense that is being claimed here. 1 Corinthians 12 talks about how the Body of Christ is constituted of many members, some of which appear "less honorable", "weaker" and even "unpresentable". They serve purposes that appear ignoble, and the more "presentable" body members therefore have an obligation to care for these. The apostle Paul hints that these unpresentable members often have hidden value (probably both to God and to us; personally, I suspect their value consists largely in the graces they were created to cultivate in the other members of the Body), but what is very clear is that they were created to function differently. Further, whatever value they do have, no claim whatsoever is made in the passage that the various parts are "equal" in any way, or anywhere else in the Bible, only that they need each other to function properly

This is evident from the real world: nobody functions better and more admirably than the godly mother of a disabled child. The graces cultivated in her by caring for a "lesser part" speak eloquently to God's real purpose in creating living beings that just don't work, look, act, think or function as well as others.

Those who claim the Bible teaches equality are reading their early childhood Western propagandization back into scripture with no warrant.
As a general rule, if there is any doubt about a theological position, look with extreme skepticism at the position that is in line with the world's approval.

Labels: ,

72 Comments:

Blogger Resident Moron™ July 14, 2018 11:50 AM  

Death is the only actual equalizer in scripture.

All living things exist in a hierarchical order designed into existence by its creator.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 11:55 AM  

'Death is the only actual equalizer in scripture.'

As Vox previously pointed out, this is incorrect.

That said, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - not sure that's the sort of equality that people had in mind, however.

Blogger JJ from AZ July 14, 2018 11:59 AM  

This is, as noted, your blog and I don't mean to diminish your point, however, in defense of Jefferson, I don't believe that he believed that which you ascribe to him. Far from it.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Jefferson was not holding forth that all men are equal, but that they were born with an equal right to try achieve all that they might achieve. Furthermore, he didn't hold this view about blacks, women or papists. These were white men he was referring to.

Jefferson was a state's rights aristocrat. He would never have countenanced the horror the party he founded has become. He HATED cities. He hated bureaucracy. He was as far from a socialist as one could possibly get.

“Where we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.” Not a socialist.

The problem, as I see it, is that modern leftists read the great words and can't, using their tiny brains, understand what they mean.

Blogger John July 14, 2018 12:05 PM  

God loves justice, not equality. He hates injustice. He doesn't hate inequality.

From the fact that certain people should be considered equivalent across certain categories, one cannot jump to the wild egalitarian claim that "all men are created equal".

Blogger VD July 14, 2018 12:08 PM  

This is, as noted, your blog and I don't mean to diminish your point, however, in defense of Jefferson, I don't believe that he believed that which you ascribe to him.

I don't believe he did either. That's why I describe his words as a flight of rhetorical fancy. The problem is that most Americans, whether they are born in Boston or Lisbon, believe that is what those words mean.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 14, 2018 12:16 PM  

In the '60s I was taught that Jefferson's flight of rhetorical fancy meant only that we did not accept hereditary nobility or the divine right of kings. This modern misunderstanding is modern indeed.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 14, 2018 12:18 PM  

Now you see, this kind of discussion about scripture, real thinking people sharing and reading ideas, is how we were really intended to study and understand it. Churches of pageantry and people having some kind of rank telling you what it all means is really an abomination.

Blogger Mary MacArthur July 14, 2018 12:24 PM  

All Catholics should realize that the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception obviously negates the idea of spiritual equality.

Blogger The Observer July 14, 2018 12:31 PM  

The problem is that most Americans, whether they are born in Boston or Lisbon, believe that is what those words mean.

In some circles, this is called "not getting the joke". Rhetoric, hyperbole and convenient lies from the older generation who were secret hypocrites end up being fervently believed as truth by the new. That's why it's important to always couch one in truth and make the unspoken rules spoken, or even better, written. And even so, word finagling by clever re-interpreters will always happen.

Unfortunately, when a generational view is needed, modernity cannot see beyond the next election cycle.

Blogger Jack Amok July 14, 2018 12:32 PM  

It's interesting that fairness comes up here. Most appeals to equality are really appeals to fairness. "Equal before the law" really means "don't pre-judge someone, give them a fair trial" but of course the purpose of a fair trial is to justify unequal outcomes by separating defendants into the unequal categories of "innocent" and "guilty" so we can in good conscience impose a fair punishment upon the guilty.

A desire for fairness is pretty innate to most people. Even predators usually need to find some justification for how they treat their prey. But clearly "equality" and "fairness" are not only not the same thing, they are diametrically opposed things. You can't have fairness without inequality, and you can't have equality without being unfair.

So this is another of the Left's verbal slight-of-hand tricks, attaching one concept to another so as to invert reason and subvert normal human reasoning that would otherwise reject their lies.

Blogger Rick July 14, 2018 12:34 PM  

“Churches of pageantry and people having some kind of rank telling you what it all means is really an abomination.”

I believe Christ ranked his disciples. But what does he know..
We’re they all head of the church?

There’s nothing stopping you from thinking about the Bible. I prefer to also listen to what others think about it (Aquinas, Schuon, Eckart, etc) because I can’t think like them. I only have this brain.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 14, 2018 12:39 PM  

So blinded by your own illumination you missed the simple point and autisticly latched onto one word like a woman losing an argument.

Blogger Blackbody July 14, 2018 12:39 PM  

'Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”'

This passage seems relevant.

Blogger Nate July 14, 2018 12:40 PM  


“Churches of pageantry and people having some kind of rank telling you what it all means is really an abomination.”

you should tell that to the Apostle Paul. I'm sure he will repent of his position.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 12:41 PM  

"We’re they all head of the church?"

The Church has one head - Christ.

Trying to assign another is blasphemy.

Blogger SouthRon July 14, 2018 12:42 PM  

Doktor it's not that there are no ranks. Rather God hates those that have the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, a word which means against or to dominate the laity. When a priest, pastor or teacher lords it over a lay person, then they are placing themselves in the place of God and he has a big problem with that.

Blogger DJ | AMDG July 14, 2018 12:43 PM  

I don’t know if a single properly catechized catholic who believes even remotely in spiritual equality - whatever that is. We don’t even equalize the Saints let alone saints. There’s hierarchy in almost all aspects of the catholic faith, and for good reason. It was Protestant fundamentalism and later neo-Calvinism that began to equalize everything in the faith. All sins are the same. All saints are the same. There are no SAINTS. All days are the same. There are no Feasts. There are no sacraments.

You’re either in or you’re out. If you’re in you’re “saved” and if you’re out you’re “damned.”

Granted. My comment is a bit hyperbolic, but I just wanted to clarify in case others got the weong impression from yours. Egalitarianism and equalitism is not a thing in Catholicism in spite of V2 Nostradamus Aetate or what some Pope or bishop “says.”

Blogger Bobiojimbo July 14, 2018 12:44 PM  

Thank you, and well written.

Blogger Mercy July 14, 2018 12:49 PM  

Jesus Christ was fully Man and fully God. If all men are equal, then all men are equal to God. There's no need for word search or text analysis. The quest for equality is old and demonic.

Blogger The Observer July 14, 2018 12:52 PM  

@17: Oh boy, here we go again.

Blogger Argus Bacchus July 14, 2018 1:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger John Calla July 14, 2018 1:08 PM  

The complete breakdown of hierarchy is probably the root cause of many of the prominent evils the West has sullied itself with in the past few centuries. God's order is a hierarchy, and people want to naturally rebel from that, just as Satan did.

@15 The Church has one head - Christ.

Sure, that is true, but there is the concept of a vicar, and I believe that's what Rick is referring to. When a king would leave his kingdom to visit another, he would put a vicar in his place to be top-most authority in his stead. He wouldn't just leave his chair empty so that those underneath him wouldn't have a final authority -- in the flesh -- to answer and appeal to. Likewise, if a king decided to not go to a certain battle, he would appoint a commander in his stead to lead the battle.

Blogger Aracuru July 14, 2018 1:09 PM  

If anyone wants to laugh at one of the most retarded conflations of SJW / Leftist insanity with the Bible, feel free to read this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/07/12/the-bible-is-literature-for-the-resistance/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f547f36a40c1

#muhresistance

Blogger Argus Bacchus July 14, 2018 1:10 PM  


"You can't have fairness without inequality, and you can't have equality without being unfair."

Well said, Jack.

The conflation of equality and fairness has helped destroy public education in the United States, along with several other factors, as several of the the esteemed commentors here at Vox's blog have eloquently described.

When a teacher who wants to teach some science to certain pale skinned students is prohibited from doing so on direct orders from the superintendent because other brown skinned students don't yet have the English language skills to comprehend the material, you know that President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho has a good chance of being elected really soon.

Blogger Cecil Henry July 14, 2018 1:36 PM  

Yes, they believe 'equality' SHOULD be true for ultimately malicious reasoning.


And what is the motive for wanting to believe that?? -- ENVY.

No one can EVER be better than themselves: and thus equality MUST reign everywhere and always --- either by lies or tyranny if necessary.

This was the cause of Satan's fall from heaven: No one will be superior to me. I would rather reign in a hell than be unequal in heaven.

That is the evil in their goal.

Blogger cyrus83 July 14, 2018 1:40 PM  

The rhetorical use of equality by Jefferson was probably more for the effect of "we're Englishmen too and have the rights of Englishmen."

God creates men, but the similarity only extends to that which makes men men - created by God, born with the sin of Adam, in need of redemption by Christ, subject to death and judgment according to God's law, capable of reaching the paradise of heaven or the unending torment of hell.

The modern world wastes enormous time and treasure either trying to make men what they are not, or pretending that they are what they are plainly not. Marxism is lurking behind the delusion, as the equality nonsense justifies wealth and population redistribution schemes.

Blogger Rob July 14, 2018 1:44 PM  

The 'created in the image of God' argument was always used in the church I used to attend when I got saved. They also said that therefore we have to love the muslims and that God sent them here so we could evangelize them.

It never felt right with me deep down, but having no prior knowledge of Scripture I supposed it was so (the church and 'veteran' christians know best right?!) and thought that something was wrong with me being unable to love the enemy. It created a sense of guilt.

My initial 'hunch' was right all along and should have studied Scripture better. But woe to you if you dare to speak against the pastor and church doctrines, then you are a church-splitter. Creating guilt and pressure seems to be the preferred method of keeping you in line for most churches, especially for new converts.

I have grown more as a Christian in a couple of weeks following Vox's blog and Darkstreams than mindlessly listening to years of endless sermons like a braindead zombie

Blogger Scott July 14, 2018 1:52 PM  

Mathematical abstractions such as equality and infinity do not exist in the physical universe. This is pretty settled philosophy and is studied comprehensively in the subject of apologetics.

One of my favorite ironies is the directly conflicting ideas of biological evolution and physical equality held by most atheists.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 14, 2018 1:59 PM  

Rob wrote:The 'created in the image of God' argument was always used in the church I used to attend when I got saved. They also said that therefore we have to love the muslims and that God sent them here so we could evangelize them.

God created the mohammedans, and He loves them very much. He will send the unrepentant mohammedans to hell. Evangelize them certainly, but expect most of them to burn. Same as the unrepentant everyone else. There is no call anywhere in the Bible to import any peoples to anywhere.

Blogger Andrew Brown July 14, 2018 2:50 PM  

There's a lot of Christian articles going back years that are worth the read.

Blogger SciVo July 14, 2018 3:08 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:It's interesting that fairness comes up here. Most appeals to equality are really appeals to fairness.

It may be worth noting that leftists are moral cripples, only being able to perceive the moral spheres of fairness and harm, but not disgust, loyalty or respect. So whatever their self-interest is, their arguments will always come down to "It's unfair and it hurts!" They literally cannot comprehend any other argument even mattering.

Blogger James Dixon July 14, 2018 3:21 PM  

> In the '60s I was taught that Jefferson's flight of rhetorical fancy meant only that we did not accept hereditary nobility or the divine right of kings.

As far as I understand it, the problem is that the key words "under the law" were not written into the text, as everyone knew that's what was meant.

Blogger wave spender July 14, 2018 3:26 PM  

Those who compare themselves to God are fools, and are in for a very long or short journey.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 3:26 PM  

'As far as I understand it, the problem is that the key words "under the law" were not written into the text, as everyone knew that's what was meant.'

Alternatively, it simply needs to be read in its contextual nature: the equality is within the frame of the possession of natural rights.

Which still leads to the conclusion that many of the Framers eventually reached: you cannot make such a claim in a society with chattel slavery.

Blogger wave spender July 14, 2018 3:34 PM  

@25 I thought Satan's fall was a matter of pride.
Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two antithetical meanings. With a negative connotation pride refers to a foolishly and irrationally corrupt sense of one's personal value, status or accomplishments, used synonymously with hubris.

Blogger OneWingedShark July 14, 2018 3:39 PM  

John wrote:God loves justice, not equality. He hates injustice. He doesn't hate inequality.

From the fact that certain people should be considered equivalent across certain categories, one cannot jump to the wild egalitarian claim that "all men are created equal".

I agree, this is the thrust that Jefferson is getting at and indeed, despite VD's assertions, the Bible supports this idea of equality before the law*; I take you back to Nathan the Prophet, who confronts David and tells a story: the prophet tells of a rich man who steals a sheep from a poor man and slaughters it to feed a guest, David gets angry and says "this man must die! and he must give four sheep in it place." and then Nathan says "You are that man."

Jack Amok wrote:It's interesting that fairness comes up here. Most appeals to equality are really appeals to fairness. "Equal before the law" really means "don't pre-judge someone, give them a fair trial" but of course the purpose of a fair trial is to justify unequal outcomes by separating defendants into the unequal categories of "innocent" and "guilty" so we can in good conscience impose a fair punishment upon the guilty.

A desire for fairness is pretty innate to most people. Even predators usually need to find some justification for how they treat their prey. But clearly "equality" and "fairness" are not only not the same thing, they are diametrically opposed things. You can't have fairness without inequality, and you can't have equality without being unfair.

So this is another of the Left's verbal slight-of-hand tricks, attaching one concept to another so as to invert reason and subvert normal human reasoning that would otherwise reject their lies.

You touch on something here, and it's why I prefer talking about these moral issues in terms of 'Justice' rather than 'fairness' -- even though fair can mean just (see defs. 14, 9, 10, & 4) there are there are 17 definitions in Webster's 1828 with various and widely differing meaning (just vs. clear/open vs. pleasing to the eye).

While Just has nearly the same number of definitions, they give a far narrower "thrust"; see: Just.

If you talk of "fairness" you can sleight-of-hand punishment away because such may be brutally striking (take public hanging), while in utopia something so stark/ugly/terrifying cannot exist: and remember that utopia is the thrust that the liberal/statist has. (And, indeed, the aversion to real justice stems from their real guilt.)

* God makes a big deal over and over again about not respecting persons in the administration of Justice. About how Judges must judge Justly, warning about the evils of corrupt judgments.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 3:59 PM  

@17

I don't think most protestants have the slightest bit of problems with the hierarchies which exist in, for example, the Greek Orthodox Church, or the Russian Orthodox Church.

We DO have a problem with the Catholic church and it's hierarchy, due to the century after century of that organization using it's hierarchy to promote and execute demonically unholy, inexcusable, abominable things.

The Catholic Church (started when the Bishop of Rome separated from the rest of the Christian Church) then has the gall to call everyone else splitters, when it was the Roman Church which were THE ORIGINAL SPLITTERS.

And I mean that literally... the "Roman Catholic Church" is a Roman Paganist cake, with Christian symbols drawn in the icing.

I'm so absolustely sick of Catholics acting as if their church is perfect, and everyone else falls short of the glory of unholy Rome.

Blogger Miguel July 14, 2018 4:00 PM  

"As a general rule, if there is any doubt about a theological position, look with extreme skepticism at the position that is in line with the world's approval.

Thats pretty much how I saw that Global Warming is a lie.

Blogger AnvilTiger July 14, 2018 4:02 PM  

A fundamental problem is that the meaning of words change over time. Thus the need for "originalism" in understanding the US constitution.

For example "meek" originally meant a combination of endurance, humility, and strength under control.

"Conversation" originally meant behavior or conduct, and is derived from a word meaning "road" - thus the path of life in which one's character is displayed.

"Replenish" did not mean to resupply, it meant "to supply fully" - the "re" in this case does mean "to do again" like it does today as a prefix.

"Furniture" originally meant equipment or supplies.

"Girl" originally mean a young child of either sex.

"Pretty" originally meant cunning and skillful.

And so on.

Blogger AnvilTiger July 14, 2018 4:04 PM  

Previous comment: "did not" rather than "does" for "resupply".

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:04 PM  

@23

". Aracuru July 14, 2018 1:09 PM
If anyone wants to laugh at one of the most retarded conflations of SJW / Leftist insanity with the Bible, feel free to read this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/07/12/the-bible-is-literature-for-the-resistance/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f547f36a40c1"

This will turn out extremely badly for them. Extremely badly. Biblically badly. And on that note, it strengthens even more my belief that Qanon is not only real, but more than just a cheerleader, but is as close to a contemporary prophet as we're ever going to see.



A great many people in the English speaking world seem to think that the commandment not to take the Lords's name in vain means, "don't say things like 'God damn'". That is not the case at all.

It means DON'T PRETEND TO BE SPEAKING FOR GOD OR CONVEYING HIS WORD when what you are actually doing is promulgating evil, or attempting some sort of self-benefit at the expense of the people you fool.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:06 PM  

@26

"The rhetorical use of equality by Jefferson was probably more for the effect of "we're Englishmen too and have the rights of Englishmen."

Wrong. England was still under feudalism. And they had just fought a decade long war to prove that they wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with England any more.

Blogger OneWingedShark July 14, 2018 4:13 PM  

Mercy wrote:Jesus Christ was fully Man and fully God. If all men are equal, then all men are equal to God. There's no need for word search or text analysis. The quest for equality is old and demonic.
Interesting how you're ignoring the passages about Jesus not grasping at the nature of God, but instead emptying himself, and taking on the likeness of man in order to pull off the same sleight-of-hand that leftists do with Fairness and Justice, or with equality-of-opportunity and equality-of-outcome.

John Calla wrote:@15 The Church has one head - Christ.

Sure, that is true, but there is the concept of a vicar, and I believe that's what Rick is referring to. When a king would leave his kingdom to visit another, he would put a vicar in his place to be top-most authority in his stead. He wouldn't just leave his chair empty so that those underneath him wouldn't have a final authority — in the flesh — to answer and appeal to. Likewise, if a king decided to not go to a certain battle, he would appoint a commander in his stead to lead the battle.

Except that's precisely not what Jesus did — and one could argue that Jesus's throne (and therefore the Church) is in Heaven — instead he sent the Holy Spirit. Indeed the Holy Spirit was proof that God had come to the Gentiles just as the Jews: "And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us." (Acts 15)

Besides, if the account as presented is factual then neither Peter nor Paul were the authority (Pope, Vicar, etc) here, but James: "After they finished speaking, James replied, “My brothers, listen to me. […] Therefore I have reached the decision […]”" (Note that Peter and Paul both were there, yet James is the one exercising authority.)

TL;DR — The existence of a singular human authority within the Church [other than Jesus] denies the Holy Spirit's position and authority while usurping the proper authority of Jesus.

SciVo wrote:Jack Amok wrote:It's interesting that fairness comes up here. Most appeals to equality are really appeals to fairness.

It may be worth noting that leftists are moral cripples, only being able to perceive the moral spheres of fairness and harm, but not disgust, loyalty or respect. So whatever their self-interest is, their arguments will always come down to "It's unfair and it hurts!" They literally cannot comprehend any other argument even mattering.

This.
Their crippled nature means that they cannot distinguish painful-but-ultimately-good from pleasurable-but-ultimately-bad. Much like the key differential between 'niceness' and 'kindness': Kindness is smacking the kid's hand away from the hot stove, niceness is cutting the nerves so there's no pain.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:17 PM  

@27

"The 'created in the image of God' argument was always used in the church I used to attend when I got saved. They also said that therefore we have to love the muslims and that God sent them here so we could evangelize them."

That's a PERFECT example of the pastor and leaders in your church taking the Lord's name in vain.

In their VANITY, they are ascribing meaning to God's words which were never meant....or even written.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:21 PM  

@27

"But woe to you if you dare to speak against the pastor and church doctrines, then you are a church-splitter. Creating guilt and pressure seems to be the preferred method of keeping you in line for most churches, especially for new converts."

That's straight up Alinskyism:

Isolate the target.
Freeze the target.
Destroy the target.
Make the enemy (sincere, Godly believers) play by their rules (ostracism and excommunication), while not observing the rules yourself (seeking penalties against the sincere Godly, but not against the unrepentant sinners such as themselves.)

Blogger VD July 14, 2018 4:21 PM  

the Bible supports this idea of equality before the law*; I take you back to Nathan the Prophet, who confronts David and tells a story: the prophet tells of a rich man who steals a sheep from a poor man and slaughters it to feed a guest, David gets angry and says "this man must die! and he must give four sheep in it place." and then Nathan says "You are that man."

That's totally incorrect. The rich man is being treated very DIFFERENTLY before the law than the poor man. How can the poor man who steals give four sheep? It's an analogy about David's guilt, not about equality before the law.

And David never suffered the penalty for Uriah's murder. He was not executed, but married Bathsheba instead. It proves the opposite of what you claim.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:22 PM  

@28

"One of my favorite ironies is the directly conflicting ideas of biological evolution and physical equality held by most atheists."

Darwin is a prophet! Evolution is Great! Down with Social Darwinism!!!!

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 4:27 PM  

"I take you back to Nathan the Prophet, who confronts David and tells a story: the prophet tells of a rich man who steals a sheep from a poor man and slaughters it to feed a guest, David gets angry and says "this man must die! and he must give four sheep in it place." and then Nathan says "You are that man."

Murderer of his partner in adultery while King.

Trump can fall a LONG way and still be a more admirable and Godly man than David.

Blogger dienw July 14, 2018 4:43 PM  

Trump can fall a LONG way and still be a more admirable and Godly man than David.

Good Grief! Don't you people who make "Christian" comments ever read the bible outside of Sunday morning (and Wednesday) services -- if you're not dozing? Doesn't the God calling David a man after his own heart mean anything to you? It is one thing to admire him it is another to idolize him. It is neither a blessing or wise to idolize a person; for there will be unforeseen consequences.

(Act 13:22)  And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will.

Blogger Al K. Annossow July 14, 2018 4:45 PM  

I have newborn relatives, intellectually disabled relatives, and elderly relatives. I even have an average relative. I see no equality of opportunity nor of responsibility for actions. No one does. And I never expect to see equal responsibility for absolute amount taxed for government services.

The binary thinking that wants simple bright lines of where benefits and responsibilities are distributed is why only higher IQ societies can handle democracy, and even those need better than average people to be its leaders. (The real problem is rhetoric driven by greed and manipulation, but that last statement sounds more intellectual.)

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 5:09 PM  

OOOPs..

@48
Should read:

"Murdering the HUSBAND OF his partner in adultery. And then marrying the widow. ALL While King."

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 5:10 PM  

@49


"(Act 13:22) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will."


And the history and uniqueness of Trump's election makes my point for me.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 14, 2018 5:11 PM  

IF you don't think there was Divine Will involved with getting Trump into office... you're not paying attention.

Blogger dienw July 14, 2018 5:23 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:IF you don't think there was Divine Will involved with getting Trump into office... you're not paying attention.

Never stated that he was not. You read your bible as well as you read my statement.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 5:28 PM  

"That's totally incorrect. The rich man is being treated very DIFFERENTLY before the law than the poor man. How can the poor man who steals give four sheep? It's an analogy about David's guilt, not about equality before the law."

Four times for sheep is actually the standard restitution from Exodus 22. This is precisely the equal application of the law.

As for the rest, that falls into the category of God's mercy, and is another debate entirely.

Blogger John July 14, 2018 5:45 PM  

@36 "the Bible supports this idea of equality before the law"

There is big difference between saying:
1) the law should be applied justly (of course)
2) the law should be changed to consider people more equally (egalitarianism)

God supports justice, not equality. God has never supported arbitrarily abolishing legal distinctions between men and women, natives and foreigners, straights and homosexuals, loyalists and traitors/anarchists, etc.

@46 And David never suffered the penalty for Uriah's murder.

Yes, but the same criminal penalties should be applied to both leaders and commoners for the basic moral sins (murder, kidnapping, rape, adultery, theft)…at least in peacetime.

Blogger Jack Amok July 14, 2018 6:29 PM  

"the Bible supports this idea of equality before the law"

This is exactly my point about "fair" (or "just") being intentionally conflated with "equal." If you treat all equally before the law, you will be completely unjust, because you will treat criminals and innocents equally.

Saying everyone is equally entitled to justice is fine, but it is literally not the same thing as saying everyone is equal before the law. Subtle distinction you say? Perhaps, but it was not all the far for us to go from "equal before the law" to saying a Dindu-Defendant can't get a fair trial if the jury isn't half-Black and willing to excuse his criminality.

Blogger Unknown July 14, 2018 6:34 PM  

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Blogger Rick July 14, 2018 6:37 PM  

I didn’t miss your point at all. You don’t like being told what to do.
And when someone provides no counter argument, or any information at all, but instead accuses the other of being like a woman, I know it wasn’t me who lost the argument.
I objected to “rank” because that’s not the problem. The problem with hierarchies, if there are problems in an organization, is when the person has not earned the position. Rank and hierarchies in and of themselves are not a problem. They’re necessary. Perhaps just as often the problem is not deferring to authority when one should.

Blogger Unknown July 14, 2018 6:41 PM  

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Blogger Unknown July 14, 2018 6:57 PM  

Totally agree with the mailvox. Equality is not a biblical precept. Five reasons:

1. We're equally condemned because of sin but are not equal in our sins.

2. Salvation is equally accessible in Christ but not equally received.

3. The prerequisite for salvation is faith, not the abolition of inequalities.

4. The response Christ demands is obedience and sacrifice in His likeness, not equalisation of one sinful man with another.

5. Charity is helping those in need, not giving up one's resources until everyone feels equal.

Equality is clearly a biblical non-starter. It's just as false to assert that Christian salvation is the result of anything other than the gift of grace and the response of repentance and faith. Race isn't an issue in Christ like it was for the OT Jews who were under the Law. Gentiles of all races are part of God's salvation plan in Christ.

Christian nationalism may be a necessary foil for runaway Equalism, and racial generalizations may be unavoidable along the way, but to remain Christian it must seek to avoid squeezing race back into lineup.

Blogger VD July 14, 2018 7:16 PM  

Four times for sheep is actually the standard restitution from Exodus 22. This is precisely the equal application of the law.

Yes, but the poor man with the single sheep obviously can't pay it. So, will he be held equally accountable before the law or not?

Blogger VD July 14, 2018 7:19 PM  

Yes, but the same criminal penalties should be applied to both leaders and commoners for the basic moral sins (murder, kidnapping, rape, adultery, theft)…at least in peacetime.

Whether they should be or not, they aren't and never have been. David didn't pay the penalty.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 8:06 PM  

"Yes, but the poor man with the single sheep obviously can't pay it. So, will he be held equally accountable before the law or not?"

According to Proverbs, yes, and none should pity him.

Blogger VD July 14, 2018 8:26 PM  

According to Proverbs, yes, and none should pity him.

In other words, no, he won't be. These appeals to nonexistent hypotheticals should suffice to demonstrate the absurdity of the "equality is real" position.

Blogger S1AL July 14, 2018 8:45 PM  

The entire situation was a hypothetical proposed by Nathan... David answered according to the law, applying it impartially. The Bible tells us not to favor either rich or poor (in multiple locations).

That said, the biblical command for Christians is impartiality, not equality. Nobody has even proposed a definition for equality, much less justified it, because the word itself is fundamentally inapplicable to the human condition (at least in any modern use).

Whether, as you argue, that reduces Jefferson's words to mere rhetoric is debatable - either we believe (or hold to be self-evident) that every man, being born "equal" to his fellows, has the intrinsic rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"... or we don't. If we don't, one must question why the 56 signers put their signatures to the page. That's quite a commitment for something they didn't believe.

Blogger John July 14, 2018 9:23 PM  

Whether they should be or not, they aren't and never have been. David didn't pay the penalty.

I understand.

Obviously, over the course of the mid-future, a lot of leaders are going to do a lot of horrible things in America and go unpunished. But in the off-chance that Western Civilization ever reasserts itself here, even if I don't live to see it, I presume I will have at least some descendants who will. I will tell them they should learn from the Americans' mistakes, but give the system another shot.

Blogger Gettimothy July 14, 2018 11:38 PM  

Look around at God's creation and marvel at the monotony of it all!

Blogger tz July 15, 2018 12:05 AM  

The world needs more Cowboys

I explain it thus: a bull doesn't care if you are tall or short, fat or thin, male or female, gay or straight, cis or trans. He will try to buck you off and you can either go 8 seconds or not.

But given the ad campaign the few SJWs at UW were triggered. But the pushback was amazing. Even Montana is envious.

The ad is civic nationalist, but to the point.

Blogger Gunnar Thalweg July 15, 2018 9:31 AM  

To the original poster: A lot of interesting points in there. Thank you.

They say the rewards in heaven for the saved are not equal, but sufficient. That is, each is fully satisfied with their rewards, but rewards are not equal ... and since there can be no envy or covetousness or any other kind of sin, we will rejoice in others' rewards and in our own.

When it comes to equality before God ... that starts to move into the mind of God territory.

To each God's grace is sufficient. We embrace it or not.

Blogger DonReynolds July 15, 2018 2:39 PM  

There is no equality and there never has been and I expect, there never will be.

But to be even more complete, we need to give up on the egalitarian nonsense altogether. There is no equality and there is no democracy and there is no faction that preaches the merits of democracy that is actually democratic.

The communists of all stripes, love to call themselves democracies. Of course, that was a lie. The "liberal" governments of the West also considered themselves to be democracies, which they never were, and that includes the United States.

The Federal government has three branches and none of those branches have anything to do with democracy. The executive branch elects a pair of leaders every four years, using the Electoral College. That is not democracy. The legislative branch is dominated by the US Senate, which portions each state with two Senators....regardless of population. The population of congressional districts varies quite a bit also. The judicial branch does not even pretend to have a hint of democracy.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 15, 2018 3:19 PM  

Since our Constitution specifically states that
1) The federal government is to be in the form of a Republic
and
2) That EACH state in the union is also to have the form of a Republic,

this means that within the Untied States, Democracy is SPECIFICALLY OUTLAWED above the county level, to the same degree as aristocracy and hereditary dictatorship is.

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