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Wednesday, July 18, 2018

Mailvox: MPAI in action

A reader encounters a pair of Jordaneticians on an airplane:
You may find this interaction I had with a random couple interesting.

While on a plane flight, a couple across the aisle were both reading 12 Rules for Life.  I waited for the flight to land to ask them what they thought about the book so far.  Both of them were only a couple chapters into the book.  The husband responded with:

"Oh my God I love it, it's just so good."

As much as I wanted to just sit down and have a lengthy conversation with them about how he's a charlatan, I recognized this was not the time or place and they were complete strangers.  So instead I told them, "the more I read and study JP, the less I like him.  And that the book is just completely incoherent, how do gorillas having black sclera have anything to do with his rules?

The husband paused for a second and acknowledged that JP does go on too many irrelevant tangents.  But his wife had another answer in mind:

"But that's just how JP thinks! His mind is just wired that way, not only does he write that way he speaks that way too!  He's just on a completely different level than us!"

At this point the people in front of me started leaving, so I gave my pleasantries and walked away.  But while walking through the jet bridge I can hear the wife continue to talk to her husband about how JP is just too smart, and that his mind is just too difficult for us to understand.

Now it was only a 2-minute conversation, but what would you have done?  Is there some good rhetoric or elevator speech that can enlighten these lost men?
I would have said something like: "He's on a different level, all right. The psychopathic level. You know he admits to dreaming about killing and eating the cousin he still thinks was the most beautiful woman in the world, right? You're taking advice about life from Hannibal the cannibal. Why not just watch Silence of the Lambs while you're at it?"

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81 Comments:

Blogger widlast washere July 18, 2018 11:12 AM  

Not too long ago I read the book Fashionable Nonsense, quite the eye opener. And to a certain extent, I think the reason that BS artists like Peterson are so well respected by the widwits is that they hide their drivel in high sounding dialog with a healthy seeding of $5 words. It sounds great to those who are not really paying attention or are too dull to notice the idiocy within. And as has been said of Satan, he packages his worst lies within harmless truths.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2018 11:13 AM  

Hey! Hannibal the Cannibal has some better points than JBP.

Blogger Weak July 18, 2018 11:15 AM  

Or have sympathy and patience. They can't go from blue pill straight to Gorilla Mindset. It would break their brains and they would retreat into their blue pill shell.

Jordanetics is a fraud. But it can be a useful first step to awakening. If they stop with Jordanetics, that's bad. Many go from Jordanetics to the next step on the path to wisdom and awakening.

Jordanetics can be a useful tool to shake people from a blue pill existence. It's not truth. But at this point in their journey, they can't comprehend the truth.

So for your two minute conversation, I recommend "if you like that book, then definitely check out ". To help them onto the next step on the path.

Blogger Weak July 18, 2018 11:17 AM  

Then definitely check out - insert your favorite red pill author".

That got clipped.

Blogger qualitycontrol July 18, 2018 11:29 AM  

@3. Weak
Do you actually have numbers to prove what you are stating? My personal experience is the opposite. People like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson need to be removed and replaced by us.

There are much better entry level red pills. Even the Drudge Report or Breitbart is better than Jordan Peterson.

Blogger VoodooJock July 18, 2018 11:29 AM  

The problem with the logic of JP's schtick, or any other path that uses wickedness to transition to righteousness, being an effective means to get people to the path of righteousness is that it only works for strong minded sorts. The weak minded sorts are going to continue along the path of wickedness secure in the false knowledge that they are on the path of righteousness. I'm not so certain that's a method that needs to be advocated. Any path to righteousness is going to be inherently hard. For me, anything that sells itself on making that path easier is a temptation designed to lead you down the wrong path.

Blogger Rickaby007 July 18, 2018 11:38 AM  

Milo's recent critique of him is pretty entertaining: "he's spewing gibberish". Deep down, a lot of other people feel the same way I think. Peterson will probably be irrelevant in a few more years.

Blogger English Tom July 18, 2018 11:38 AM  

@Azure

I heard Hannibal was quite an excellent chef!

Blogger Desdichado July 18, 2018 11:38 AM  

Most people don't know much about Jordan Peterson except that he has publicly embarrassed some SJWs on TV and elsewhere here and there, so they assume that he's one of the good guys.

They don't actually know much about anything else he says, so he can't exactly lead them anywhere if they don't otherwise pay much attention to him.

Blogger Rickaby007 July 18, 2018 11:40 AM  

>Jordanetics can be a useful tool to shake people from a blue pill existence.

Jordanetics is the blue pill. Literally NWO approved mental sewage.

Blogger Long Live The West July 18, 2018 11:45 AM  

If the words don't mean anything they don't mean anything.

It doesn't matter if I come up with some extremely complex cipher to share my thoughts with the world if no one can read it. Communication is about using a given set of rules so that two people can communicate. Throwing out said rules does not make you smart. It's simply a veil.

Blogger David The Good July 18, 2018 11:48 AM  

Hey, don't knock it. I learned about fava beans from Hannibal and they're now one of my favorite winter cover crops.

Blogger David The Good July 18, 2018 11:49 AM  

I often remind my wife I'm too smart for her to understand, especially when she questions me about whatever whim I happen to currently be following.

Blogger pyrrhus July 18, 2018 11:53 AM  

Nevertheless, JP is a good entry level drug for mid-wits to begin understanding that the establishment is pushing lies and cultural poison...This couple sounds like a good example.

Blogger David The Good July 18, 2018 11:53 AM  

WIFE: "You found a vial of heroin and plan to feed it to an anaconda? What if one of the KIDS gets it first?"

ME: "Which thing? The heroin or the anaconda?"

WIFE: (incoherent snarl of frustration, starting in the low register and ending with a strangled squealing through the nose)

ME: I'm doing science, darling. I don't expect you to understand. Have you cleaned your room yet?

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants July 18, 2018 11:53 AM  

Stop saying Dr Jordy is a gateway to red-pilling! He's not. He's a GATEKEEPER,same as Shapiro, Rubin, etc.
And before any of you pipe up that they led you to red-pilling, no they didn't. You led you to red-pilling because you were at least bright & inquisitive enough to realize there must be more. Most ppl are just looking for someone to tell them how to think and what to think. When they encounter something like Jordanetics, (or Dianetics), they blindly accept it and think no further. So can it.

Blogger Longtime Lurker July 18, 2018 11:57 AM  

JP will talk pretty for cash.

Blogger Garuna July 18, 2018 11:58 AM  

Is Peterson as popular in true nationalist countries as he is in civic nationalist countries? What is his popularity in Russia or Hungary compared to America and Canada?

I'm in a very violently nationalist country right now. I can't imagine any of these people giving up their group identity because a squeaky faggot told them to.

Blogger Garuna July 18, 2018 12:00 PM  

CONTD.

I lived in France for a few years. Though their election results are cucked, I remember them being extremely aware of their French identity to the point of arrogance. Is Peterson as popular in France as he is in America?

Blogger Rickaby007 July 18, 2018 12:00 PM  

@Vox

I remember Milo said Peterson's 12 Rules all boil down to be nice. Very weak. Do you agree?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 18, 2018 12:07 PM  

English Tom, some really good food for thought!

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 18, 2018 12:09 PM  

@3

Most people do need redpilling in small doses, but that requires giving them amounts of truth sufficiently small for them to process. It doesn't involve feeding them even more lies.

Blogger D Beguiled July 18, 2018 12:10 PM  

"He's on a different level, all right. The psychopathic level. You know he admits to dreaming about killing and eating the cousin he still thinks was the most beautiful woman in the world, right? You're taking advice about life from Hannibal the cannibal. Why not just watch Silence of the Lambs while you're at it?"

If everyone were held accountable for what happens in their dreams, a lot more people would be considered psychopaths than Jordan Peterson.

Blogger LP999-16 July 18, 2018 12:12 PM  

Lotion up and take your meds.

It puts the book in the basket or it gets the hose again. It puts the book in the basket or it gets the hose again.

Level? Level: Chaotic mind.

Blogger pyrrhus July 18, 2018 12:15 PM  

@16--I have seen first hand that even the likes of Shapiro have been entry ways to red-pilling ...Most people need to get there gradually....

Blogger VD July 18, 2018 12:24 PM  

I have seen first hand that even the likes of Shapiro have been entry ways to red-pilling .

Irrelevant. The numbers alone preclude that. The relevant fact is what PERCENTAGE of Shapiro fans end up moving to the nationalist right.

Notice that Shapiro's and Peterson's fan base is growing much, much faster than anyone to the right of them. That means the "gateway" argument is false and the "gatekeeper" argument is correct and substantiated.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 18, 2018 12:28 PM  

For a gateway to redpilling I would recommend Pat Buchanan.

Blogger Lamarck Leland July 18, 2018 12:29 PM  

heh that rhetoric would scare the heck outta people,
but then I don't live in a "high trust" country so I wouldn't know

since people don't change their minds on the spot what I like to do is just plant a seed of doubt.
I agree with 90% of what they say but then I say something controversial.

"Yeah he's very smart! Did you know he wants to start his own religion too? I wonder what that would look like... he had this vision where he was eating his cousin..."

Blogger Okrane S. July 18, 2018 12:35 PM  

Peterson preaches a form of individualism. That society will fix itself if individuals perfect themselves.

The problem with normies is that they will never understand that individuals are going to be crushed by the waves of tribalism so common in multicultural societies. They cannot conceive it, because all the good Europeans have been taught by centuries of Christianity to give up on their own tribal instincts.

In this world we need our tribal instincts back not to be honest and clean our room or all the other tribes are gonna clean us out.

This is why I think peterson is pointing people in the wrong direction. Individualism is just naive at this point.

Blogger Carl Philipp July 18, 2018 12:49 PM  

@15 David The Good
WIFE: "You found a vial of heroin and plan to feed it to an anaconda? What if one of the KIDS gets it first?"

Tell me you either
1) made this example up as a hilarious exaggeration, or
2) recorded every second of the following hijinks.

Blogger ace July 18, 2018 12:53 PM  

I was about to tell him he shouldn't normalize pedophilia by promoting transgenderism to kids but then I realized I left a shirt on the floor of my bedroom. I was a fundamentally dirty person who had no right to criticize anyone. Lobsters, we could learn a lot from them. They clean up all the filth. All the refuse that floats down to the floor of the ocean, like the shirt on my floor. Always cleaning up the filth, eating it, taking it inside them. I'll clean my room after I drop my son off at the drag show.

Blogger Starboard July 18, 2018 12:55 PM  

23. DB "If everyone were held accountable for what happens in their dreams, a lot more people would be considered psychopaths than Jordan Peterson."

True, but most people know that the scattered and disturbing contents of their nightmares are not important or interesting to others. They really aren't even important to the person having the nightmare when we come to the point. JBP puts them in his books as deep thoughts and tranformative vision. He uses them as evidence that his philosophy is necessary and correct.

Blogger Starboard July 18, 2018 1:00 PM  

28. LL "Yeah he's very smart! Did you know he wants to start his own religion too? I wonder what that would look like... he had this vision where he was eating his cousin..."

The wanting to start his own religion is creepy, and an good way to turn off the normies.

Blogger Miguel July 18, 2018 1:26 PM  

VD,no wonder tvey hate you. lol

Blogger Gr8Again July 18, 2018 1:28 PM  

I recommend a red pill path of:

Steve Sailer --> Z-Man --> Vox Day

Sailer is the entry drug. His good humor and general niceness are entirely inoffensive, yet you learn how laughably biased the media is, and you're exposed to race and immigration issues. You can then consult his HBD material to further educate yourself.

Z-man is like a more distilled version of Sailer, focusing more on the issues that relate to the re-alignment taking place right now and less on merely making fun of the New York Times. Like Sailer, he avoids appearing mean-spirited on race but he broaches the subject more often and move overtly.

Finally, you get to Vox, who explains how this isn't happening just by accident - that there are real evil people directing this madness for the expressed purpose of destroying us, our culture, and our history. And he tells us how to fight back.

The MPC Forums provide supplemental content once you've reached the Vox Day level.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 18, 2018 1:33 PM  

The wife illustrates why women should not be allowed to vote

Blogger Nate July 18, 2018 2:53 PM  

The very last thing I am going to do is confront someone about whatever it is they are reading in public. At least they are reading. also... if they are reading... they aren't talking to me. and that's good.

Blogger Rule of Wrist July 18, 2018 3:18 PM  

Hey now, Silence of the Lambs is far more instructive than PBJ.

howtoserveman.jpg

Blogger Dave July 18, 2018 3:22 PM  

At least they are reading. also... if they are reading... they aren't talking to me. and that's good.

Hear, hear...this couple is already too invested; they've made the conscious decision to buy two copies of the book and read it at the same time. What couples do that? Usually one will buy the book, read it, then tell the other: "Honey, you need to read this book."

Blogger Da Man July 18, 2018 3:58 PM  

"Well he ain't as good as Jim Jones was, but I will give him his do credit, He has more people drinking the Kool-Aid"

Blogger D Beguiled July 18, 2018 4:14 PM  

"23. DB "If everyone were held accountable for what happens in their dreams, a lot more people would be considered psychopaths than Jordan Peterson."

True, but most people know that the scattered and disturbing contents of their nightmares are not important or interesting to others. They really aren't even important to the person having the nightmare when we come to the point. JBP puts them in his books as deep thoughts and tranformative vision. He uses them as evidence that his philosophy is necessary and correct."

Jungian analysts analyze dreams to understand the unconscious mind. It's what they do. To act like this is suddenly weird behavior is suspicious.

If anything, it takes guts to share parts of your consciousness that don't put you in a good light.

If I were on an airplane, and wanted to discredit Peterson, I wouldn't use a weird dream he had years ago as evidence that he is essentially the same as a fictional serial killer.

It comes off as grasping at straws. Same goes for calling him a physical coward because he ran from a fight when he was six.

They come across as really reaching to find something negative. I would be suspicious of a person who led with this stuff.

Blogger VD July 18, 2018 4:25 PM  

It comes off as grasping at straws. Same goes for calling him a physical coward because he ran from a fight when he was six. They come across as really reaching to find something negative. I would be suspicious of a person who led with this stuff.

Always nice to hear from the Gammas. He didn't run from a fight when he was six. He ran from a fight when he was in junior high. He was, and is, a coward. Both intellectual and physical.

Now run along and clean your room, bucko.

Blogger Weak July 18, 2018 4:55 PM  

Read the discussion below on Jordanetics growth and the numbers on how people aren't moving on. You're right about the depth of his fraud. I was wrong about Peterson's utility as a gateway from blue pill existence to the truth. It's not.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener July 18, 2018 4:58 PM  

Jared Leto in the new Bladerunner movie reminded me a great deal of Jordan Peterson. The serial killer comparison is apt.

Blogger Daniel July 18, 2018 5:06 PM  

He admits to physical cowardice in adulthood, too. He "confronts" a frightening drunk by giving in to regular shakedowns and then finally (figuratively) hides behind his wife to convince the guy to lay off. He does this ONLY after his wife tells him to stop buying the drunk man's toaster.

He us not just a physical coward, but an emotional one too. The guy is afraid of taxes and offending cat ladies.

Bock, bock, he cucked.

Blogger Dave July 18, 2018 5:10 PM  

He didn't run from a fight when he was six. He ran from a fight when he was in junior high.

Somebody hasn't read his Peterson.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 18, 2018 5:11 PM  

My main concern is the risk of pushing them over to SJW territory.

Maybe we could offer them a suitable alternative to JP? Obviously, it would have to be somebody who doesn't completely alienate all the normies. JP appeals to the people for whom even Milo is too edgy....

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums July 18, 2018 5:38 PM  

Speaking about how "he's on a completely different level", you guys should check out the videos his friend makes, Jonathan Pageau. In one he talks about how Batman's origin story is actually the Adam and Eve story and explains how the alley is like a snake and how losing his parents is like losing the innocence through eating the forbidden fruit. It's obvious why the 2 are such good friends.

There's a joke that comes to mind each time I hear people like this talk. It's about a guy who got straight A's in school but all that he knew was related to cucumbers. He got straight A's because he managed to relate everything to a cucumber. In geography class he explained how X country had a cucumber-like shape and then went on a lengthy tirade about cucumbers. In math class he explained how the curve on the graph resembled a cucumber then went on the same cucumber speech. The teachers were so impressed by the depth of knowledge he had about some trivial tangent that they just assumed that it had to be also the case for the subject matter at hand.

I expect that at some point he's gonna make such a large leap in topics it's gonna become apparent to everyone, even him.

I think I figured out why people don't see the far-fetched analogies he makes. Vox is right about the visual/podcast medium. It's excellent for hiding these sort of leaps in logic. People consume his speeches, books, or lectures in audio form mostly WHILE doing something else. They're lifting weights, jogging, moving crates, driving, painting, whatever. So whenever a leap in logic happens they will just assume it would have made sense if they were fully engaged in listening; but because the audio keeps playing they get back on track and forget all about their confusion.

Jordan Peterson explains this too! He does attribute his success to people preferring to consume the audio format. He mentions several times how people often come to him and explain how they listen to him all the time... while doing their day to day work.

It would be interesting to make a poll about his "12 Rules for Life". I bet the scoring from the people who read the book will be much lower than the scoring of the people who listened to the book.

Blogger D Beguiled July 18, 2018 5:46 PM  

"Always nice to hear from the Gammas. He didn't run from a fight when he was six. He ran from a fight when he was in junior high. He was, and is, a coward. Both intellectual and physical.

Now run along and clean your room, bucko."

At this point, the charge of 'gamma' has about as much effect as a SJW calling someone a 'racist' or 'misogynist.' It just comes across as a blanket defense mechanism.

Was it in sixth grade instead of when he was six?

What a game changer. It is still petty and strange to harp on these things that you only know about because Peterson brought them up in the first place.

If you think his dream is strange and he shouldn't be sharing it, then you have a problem with Jungian analysis not Peterson.

If you think it is any more than a sad victory to call out something someone did in their formative years as if you never did anything you regret when you were a kid and figuring things out, well, you have more of a social problem than an intellectual one.

Pretty short on the Christian charity too. You don't express yourself like any sincere Christian I ever met either. These are simple things. They don't require grand theorizing or anything like that.

Blogger By My Greybeard! July 18, 2018 5:50 PM  

Eat his cousin?
gamahuche or broiled?

Blogger Chris Ritchie July 18, 2018 5:58 PM  

@27 For a gateway to redpilling I would recommend Pat Buchanan.

Death of the West was the beginning for me.

Blogger Dave July 18, 2018 6:08 PM  

Pretty short on the Christian charity too.

You're not very good at this. You forgot to say he's just jealous, thinks he's the burning bush, and basically he's a failed musician.

Blogger Jack July 18, 2018 6:09 PM  

"He's just on a completely different level than us!"

Part of the blame for this kind of thinking lies with the acceptance of eastern religions over the last century. How many times has the degeneracy of some guru figure been justified in exactly the same way? Post-christian Americans are so desperate for some sense of meaning and truth in their lives that they will put their faith in fallen men, whether it's some self-professed enlightened mystic or Jordan Peterson.

Blogger Daniel July 18, 2018 6:11 PM  

My main concern is the risk of pushing them over to SJW territory.

That is a horribly foolish concern.

At best.

Blogger Jack Ward July 18, 2018 6:19 PM  

Now Vox, I thought Silence of the Lambs was excellent, the Oscars well earned. Not watched in some years now; think I will dust off the dvd and see if it still works.
As for the turn of rhetoric phrase linking the movie and one of the major evil characters ever done on film to JP just has to be choice. Really!

Blogger Starboard July 18, 2018 6:37 PM  

49. DB "If you think his dream is strange and he shouldn't be sharing it, then you have a problem with Jungian analysis not Peterson."

Embrace the power of "and."

Blogger SirHamster July 18, 2018 6:44 PM  

D Beguiled wrote:Was it in sixth grade instead of when he was six?

What a game changer. It is still petty and strange to harp on these things that you only know about because Peterson brought them up in the first place.


Goalposts: Moved.

But now we know you don't love truth. How many useful lies are you saying, right now?


If you think his dream is strange and he shouldn't be sharing it, then you have a problem with Jungian analysis not Peterson.

Embrace the healing power of AND.


Pretty short on the Christian charity too. You don't express yourself like any sincere Christian I ever met either. These are simple things. They don't require grand theorizing or anything like that.

Is this a useful lie, not-lover of the truth? What's a sincere Christian?

There is a charity one extends to private individuals, that does not apply to public figures who teach and push ideas.

Why? Because ideas are more powerful than guns and bombs. Ideas can doom societies and individuals to destruction.

Blogger Mark Stoval July 18, 2018 6:51 PM  

@51

For a gateway to redpilling I would recommend Pat Buchanan.

Death of the West was the beginning for me.


-------------

I like a Pat Buchanan fan. If he had been elected president, what a different world it would be now.

Blogger VD July 18, 2018 7:06 PM  

At this point, the charge of 'gamma' has about as much effect as a SJW calling someone a 'racist' or 'misogynist.' It just comes across as a blanket defense mechanism.

It's not a charge. It's an observation of a behavioral pattern. Your behavior is consistent with the pattern; you betray far more about yourself than you realize when you behave in your customary manner here.

It is still petty and strange to harp on these things that you only know about because Peterson brought them up in the first place.

There is nothing petty or strange about it. Peterson is a fucked-up, suicidal, drug-dependent mess and it's due to his behavior when he was young. The little glimpses he gives us are very useful in this regard, because they help us understand where he is coming from.

If you think his dream is strange and he shouldn't be sharing it, then you have a problem with Jungian analysis not Peterson.

To the contrary, I know his dream is strange. And it tells us a great deal about him, more than Jungian analysts understand.

These are simple things.

They are. We can safely conclude Peterson did something that he is deeply ashamed of when he was younger. And it's not the various things that he has already confessed to in his works either. It's something worse.

Blogger D Beguiled July 18, 2018 7:38 PM  

I know you are having fun with the *gamma hunting,* but let's not forget the original context of all this.

Your reader recounts a story about being on a plane with some poor couple who made the mistake of liking JP. Your reader asks a disingenuous question. He didn't really care about what they liked or why, he was just setting them up to look like fools for his friends on the internet.

You were asked what you might have said to some poor couple who made the terrible mistake of reading Peterson and liking him.

Your response was:

"He's on a different level, all right. The psychopathic level. You know he admits to dreaming about killing and eating the cousin he still thinks was the most beautiful woman in the world, right? You're taking advice about life from Hannibal the cannibal. Why not just watch Silence of the Lambs while you're at it?"

I don't know how you don't see how socially tone deaf this is. It would have been insulting to the couple and come across as half loony too.

You would have been the weird guy on the plane.

Inserting his convoluted opinion into someone else's life too cryptically, too authoritatively, and with too much hyperbole.

It is tempting to do as you do, make long distance diagnoses of JP and commenters on your blog, but I don't like to go there.

Check out "The Goldwater Rule" sometime. It is a very prudent restriction.

Blogger Starboard July 18, 2018 7:48 PM  

60. DB Are you a psychiatrist?

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums July 18, 2018 8:09 PM  

Jack wrote:Part of the blame for this kind of thinking lies with the acceptance of eastern religions over the last century. How many times has the degeneracy of some guru figure been justified in exactly the same way? Post-christian Americans are so desperate for some sense of meaning and truth in their lives that they will put their faith in fallen men, whether it's some self-professed enlightened mystic or Jordan Peterson.

I completely agree. He's the "radical" centrist's messiah. What Elizabeth Holmes is to the politically correct tech industry, Peterson is to the spineless centrists. I do feel some sympathy for Peterson though because he does seem as scared as they are to join the fray. He looks like a kid in line to get a shot who's desperately trying to claw his way towards the back of the queue.

Blogger D Beguiled July 18, 2018 8:26 PM  

Starboard July 18, 2018 7:48 PM
"DB Are you a psychiatrist?"

No, I am a silly person who took the bait. Logging out now. Have a good day, chaps.

Blogger Dave July 18, 2018 8:42 PM  

It is tempting to do as you do, make long distance diagnoses of JP and commenters on your blog, but I don't like to go there.

But you will tell us all about this "poor couple who made the mistake of liking JP" and the reader that asked a "disingenuous question" because he was just setting them up to look like fools for his friends on the internet.

This is a direct question; what comments disparaged or ridiculed this couple?

Blogger lynnjynh9315 July 18, 2018 8:43 PM  

Daniel wrote:That is a horribly foolish concern.

At best.


Are you saying there's no risk of alienating moderates?

Blogger Mr. Deficient July 18, 2018 8:46 PM  

You guys recommending Buchanan or Sailer as entry level have no idea how normie normies are. I had problems with buchanan as a Ron Paul fan and being a Paul fan meant you were way more redpjlled then average for 2008.

Ironically, Molyneux as an individualist is far far more of a gateway drug then Peterson. He is where I found out about VD. In a way he is both an entry and medium level of redpill. The fact he's had everyone from JBP to Elliot Hulse to VD speaks volumes about his willingness to hear new ideas vs shapiros and jbps who talk only to people to the left of them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 18, 2018 9:23 PM  

If you think his dream is strange and he shouldn't be sharing it, then you have a problem with Jungian analysis not Peterson.

So, what would be the Jungian analysis of this dream?

Peterson obviously feels deep-seated guilt over some incident involving his cousin or a girl who resembled her in some way.
He is appalled at his own capacity for evil. He is, in fact, afraid that, unrestrained, he would become an absolute monster.
He is, to this day, sexually attracted to his 12yo cousin.

I won't make any accusations, but it does seem that a large part of his 'philosophy' is predicated on the coping and avoidance mechanisms he developed to deal with this toxic cocktail of guilt, fear, and self-loathing.

Blogger Rickaby007 July 18, 2018 9:37 PM  

>I won't make any accusations, but it does seem that a large part of his 'philosophy' is predicated on the coping and avoidance mechanisms he developed to deal with this toxic cocktail of guilt, fear, and self-loathing.

Interesting observation. I suspect that's roughly the case and it would explain why his actual philosophy as a whole a jumbled mess: it's predicated on psycho-mechanisms to deal with how unstable and traumatised he is. It's a framework to hold himself together. In his mind, it makes sense and it's true because it fits together and works, for him.

Blogger ASH July 18, 2018 10:02 PM  

@60 Oh you can go ahead and fuck yourself. I'm the one that wrote in and I had zero expectations that VD would publish it on his blog.

"Your reader recounts a story about being on a plane with some poor couple who made the mistake of liking JP. Your reader asks a disingenuous question. He didn't really care about what they liked or why, he was just setting them up to look like fools for his friends on the internet."

This couple was young and flying out of a very Christian city of my state. I also saw the guy browsing the donald a few times on his phone pre and post flight. From my observations I concluded that this was a good, right wing, Christian couple that could potentially be lead astray by Jordanetics. There's a reason why I said "As much as I wanted to just sit down and have a lengthy conversation with them about how he's a charlatan, I recognized this was not the time or place and they were complete strangers." I'm not the solipsistic gamma that I was years ago that derived pleasure from silly zingers on random people. Nor do I seek approval from random people on the internet anymore. (Thank you Alpha Game)

I saw that man as a Christian brother following a wolf in sheep's clothing, instead of our shepherd. And even though the wife is drunk on the kool-aid. I pray that man will remember how he agreed with my remark and that will be enough to trigger him to seek more truth on JP.

-AH

Blogger kapy53 July 18, 2018 10:24 PM  

I believe anybody that finds value in Peterson or Shapiro and moves on are the same type who get into New Age/Astrology and then find Christ. Only those who truly seek the truth will make it past, but most people are of lesser mind and get suckered into "good enough".

Blogger bob kek mando - ( don't ask, "Who mentats the Mentats?", ask instead, "Who shitpoasts the Shitpoasters?" ) July 19, 2018 12:37 AM  

VD
You're taking advice about life from Hannibal the cannibal. Why not just watch Silence of the Lambs while you're at it?"



a point worth repeating, IF YOU READ THE BOOKS, you find out that Hannibal is actually the protagonist of the story.

he "gets" Claire in the end, and they live happily ever after.

Hannibal the movie ends entirely differently than Hannibal the book.

Blogger Nikephoros II Phokas July 19, 2018 12:40 AM  

The whole point of Jungian dream analysis is to identify and hopefully work through psychological issues.

Claiming there's nothing wrong with his dream "because analysis" doesn't even make sense.

Jung was alarmed when a patient dreamt about any kind of death or violence, let alone dreaming about a nuclear cannibal holocaust every night for a year.

Blogger SirHamster July 19, 2018 1:34 AM  

lynnjynh9315 wrote:Are you saying there's no risk of alienating moderates?

Moderates are irrelevant. They follow the victors.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 19, 2018 2:48 AM  

@27 Or vdare

@53 "guru figure"
See also "The Culture of Critique."

@66 Yeah, Molyneux is good.

@67 Pretty much. And that's not even addressing the issue that he delberately chose to promote this particular dream in his book .

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 19, 2018 3:53 AM  

he delberately chose to promote this particular dream in his book .

The dream is in the book because it's foundational to his personality.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 19, 2018 8:40 AM  

@24

"Lotion up and take your meds.

It puts the book in the basket or it gets the hose again. It puts the book in the basket or it gets the hose again."

That's the funniest thing I've seen you write.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey July 19, 2018 10:51 AM  

The dream is in the book because it's foundational to his personality.

Seems like the most probable explanation.

Blogger Greg Hunt July 19, 2018 5:27 PM  

For me it was Instapundit (Glenn Reynolds) > Chateau Heartiste > Vox Day

Instapundit was a great entry point,but it's been taken over.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 19, 2018 6:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 19, 2018 6:31 PM  

@60

"60. DB Are you a psychiatrist?"

Welll, his self-chosen monicker

D ____BEGUILED_____ is sure revealing.

He's admitting that he's being fooled by something.

Blogger S. Misanthrope July 19, 2018 8:09 PM  

I was horrified that some family members thought 12 Rules was brilliant and well written. I started wondering about their intelligence. Then one of them pointed out that it’s written exactly as JP speaks, and I was quite a fan of his lectures for awhile there. Now I wonder about my own intelligence.

But seriously: the book is terrible. It’s like the Twilight of philosophy: massive fandom making up thoughts to go with the incoherent words on the page.

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