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Monday, July 23, 2018

Mailvox: the Truth will out

No matter how converged the institutions become, God can always renew the human heart and rebuild new ones. A reader writes of attending Mass this weekend.
I have recently made small efforts to attending the Mass again after a long layoff. I found a parish here in my Florida diocese that happens to administer the pre-Vatican Latin Mass after attending one for the first time on Easter in Germany. Talk about a night and day difference between services.

Anyways, to the point... I was floored when the celebrating priest stepped up to give his Homily and focused on this particular Mass' Introit prayer, an excerpt from Psalm 53: "the Lord is the protector of my soul; turn back the evils of mine enemies, and cut them off in Thy truth." He spoke frankly about the... unsuitability of this exhortation for Godly vengeance for the modern sensibilities of the Church and related it to the recent revelations of an American cardinal who has been in the news for abusing seminarians for years, and yet continuing to rise in the Church hierarchy.

To hammer it home even more, the priest spoke of how - at least in the States - the Conference of Catholic Bishops has put zero tolerance rules in place that effectively deflect blame away from themselves down to the priests and parishioners in cases where abuses are brought to light, saving their own asses while offering up those of the flocks they ought be tending to. He even uttered those three magic words - Social Justice Warrior - and excoriated them from the pulpit for separating Christian charity from their works while putting all of their efforts into grandstanding and focusing on the worldly aspects of said works (i.e. politics) This is a far cry from a mass I attended some months ago where the Celebrant was urging us all to call our representatives and cry a river over the Dreamer babies amongst us because - well, because.

This Sunday's priest said, specifically, "If you open your eyes, and begin to pay attention, and learn what to look for, you will not like what you see.

"And many Christians must be prepared - and yet will not be - to learn just how deep the darkness runs."

I was brought immediately back to a Darkstream you recently posted, speaking on the depths of depravity of the power brokers in our world and in our institutions, and how few people are truly prepared for the revelations to come about said institutions. God Bless this guy for having some balls to speak truth to power when it seems like all of Christendom has been castrated.
The darkness runs deep. But it does not run deep enough to escape the light of Truth or the sword of Justice. Even the noble pagans knew this.

When you close your doors, and make darkness within, remember never to say that you are alone, for you are not alone; nay, God is within, and your genius is within. And what need have they of light to see what you are doing?
- Epictetus

Be free. Be fearless. And when the Day of Deus Vult arrives, be ferocious.

Labels: , ,

99 Comments:

Blogger John Calla July 23, 2018 11:14 AM  

In my experience the US bishops have absolutely no clue just how pissed off the lay people are. A combination of being tone deaf and out of touch is going to leave them more shocked than the MSM was on election night.

Blogger Heian-kyo Dreams July 23, 2018 11:17 AM  

US Bishops want to replace Americans with wetback trash. That's why they don't care about abortion, but want to deny communion to ICE agents.

Blogger Desdichado July 23, 2018 11:20 AM  

I would say this is why Americans have always been wary of Papists. Except that the convergence in mainline WASP churches is nearly as bad.

Blogger AaMcavoy July 23, 2018 11:28 AM  

I'm very curious if diocese that have pre-Vatican Latin Mass are more popular, as in are growing or declining less, than diocese that are more overtly SJW.

Blogger Conor Foran July 23, 2018 11:31 AM  

Pray for Cardinal Burke, the only American prelate worth the name.

The NO first reading from Sunday was Jeremiah 23:1-6

Woe to the shepherds
who mislead and scatter the flock of my pasture,
says the LORD.
Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel,
against the shepherds who shepherd my people:
You have scattered my sheep and driven them away.
You have not cared for them,
but I will take care to punish your evil deeds.
I myself will gather the remnant of my flock
from all the lands to which I have driven them
and bring them back to their meadow;
there they shall increase and multiply.
I will appoint shepherds for them who will shepherd them
so that they need no longer fear and tremble;
and none shall be missing, says the LORD.

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD,
when I will raise up a righteous shoot to David;
as king he shall reign and govern wisely,
he shall do what is just and right in the land.
In his days Judah shall be saved,
Israel shall dwell in security.
This is the name they give him:
“The LORD our justice.”



Blogger Orthodox July 23, 2018 11:31 AM  

Once you go Latin Mass you never go back. It's more than the mass itself, the tradition and the connection to the past. It's the priests, the community. Little things about the modern mass that you might not have noticed also stick out. I never really liked the idea of eucharistic ministers, but I bristle at it after attending the traditional mass.

Blogger Orthodox July 23, 2018 11:35 AM  

I'm very curious if diocese that have pre-Vatican Latin Mass are more popular, as in are growing or declining less, than diocese that are more overtly SJW.

They're not more popular, not by a long-shot. They are way more fertile though.

Blogger AaMcavoy July 23, 2018 11:39 AM  

Orthodox wrote:I'm very curious if diocese that have pre-Vatican Latin Mass are more popular, as in are growing or declining less, than diocese that are more overtly SJW.

They're not more popular, not by a long-shot. They are way more fertile though.


Thanks!

Blogger MAethelflaed July 23, 2018 11:49 AM  

Traditional parishes do seem to produce many more vocations to the priesthood (possibly as a consequence of larger families and homeschooling, and male-only altar service), and traditional religious orders are flourishing (despite the best efforts of the Vatican to suppress them in some cases) while modernised ones are dying out. Yes, "trads" are still very much a minority within the Church, but a minority that is growing and visible in a way that was unthinkable 20 years ago.

The old rite takes some getting used to if you haven't experienced it before, but it's well worth seeking it out; any priest/parish attached to this form of Holy Mass is highly unlikely to be SJW-infected.

Blogger pyrrhus July 23, 2018 11:58 AM  

That is an awesome testimonial to a lion of a priest...I have always wondered how the Church could have ditched the Latin Mass...We heard a Latin Mass in Florence last year, and while I didn't understand all of it, it was a powerful experience.

Blogger AaMcavoy July 23, 2018 12:00 PM  

MAethelflaed wrote:Traditional parishes do seem to produce many more vocations to the priesthood (possibly as a consequence of larger families and homeschooling, and male-only altar service), and traditional religious orders are flourishing (despite the best efforts of the Vatican to suppress them in some cases) while modernised ones are dying out. Yes, "trads" are still very much a minority within the Church, but a minority that is growing and visible in a way that was unthinkable 20 years ago.

The old rite takes some getting used to if you haven't experienced it before, but it's well worth seeking it out; any priest/parish attached to this form of Holy Mass is highly unlikely to be SJW-infected.


I've suspected that if a Church (any denomination) were to go full-blown trad, patriarchal, chauvinist, Deus Vult then they'd attract more people and grow at a rate that would scare the progs as much as the GE.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 23, 2018 12:03 PM  

Vox, it pleases me very much that you are "in the know" when it comes to Vatican II. What the modernist hierarchy have done since then--in collaboration with Jews and Freemasons--has been nothing short of poisoning the Church.

Blogger pyrrhus July 23, 2018 12:06 PM  

@2 "US Bishops want to replace Americans with wetback trash. That's why they don't care about abortion, but want to deny communion to ICE agents."

And Mexican Catholicism is an admixture of Catholic doctrine with all kinds of native superstition..The Virgin of Guadaloupe seems to be the main icon of the Church, and many Cartel gunmen have her tattooed on their arms...

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 23, 2018 12:08 PM  

By the way, a Tridentine Latin Mass is the highest way to worship God. The rituals are as solemn as can be. The gestures and orientation of the priest all point to elevating God. Our hearts and minds are lifted to this one purpose during that hour.

As for the Latin, it is the "high language" of the West. It is the ultimate form of spoken worship. Angels love it. Demons hate it. It doesn't matter if we do not understand it, because the worship is not for us, but God.

I wrote an article about this at OnePeterFive earlier this year (Latin, the Sacramental Language) if anyone's interested:

https://onepeterfive.com/latin-high-language/

Blogger Al K. Annossow July 23, 2018 12:17 PM  

Too many Christians end up confusing Jesus with Francis of Assisi. Confusing good with nice is the mistake a child makes, kinda like confusing the communism within a home with functional politics outside the home. Or like confusing compassion and forgiveness among Christians with law and order in society.

But likewise don't assume Latin Masses fix Church problems in and of themselves. They help by drawing people to get out of their modern lives surrounded by debauchery and to remember traditional teachings and lives that are a better alternative. Those ends are the goal; don't depend only on the means. The modern Church is stupidly trying to compete with modern entertainment, which makes the modern Christian Church Jewish.

Blogger Jed Mask July 23, 2018 12:22 PM  

Good words from you today Mr. Vox.

May God guide you in His Truth. Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Blogger Reasonably Honest July 23, 2018 12:22 PM  

I've been looking at Orthodox Churches to join and I have just about decided on the local Antiochian church. The sermons are seriously traditional and the Antiochians aren't members of the National Council of Churches, which endorses all manner of sick antichristian behavior. And the old school services are awesome, literally. Good stuff.

Blogger Durandel July 23, 2018 12:36 PM  

@AaMcavoy - do a google search. The answer is yes.

Blogger Durandel July 23, 2018 12:39 PM  

@Conor Foran - How about we pray Burke finds his damn balls and actually calls for an imperfect council to issue a formal correction, which he said he would do in November...of 2017.

We have a number of trad bishops, but so far, they say stuff here and there but refuse to put up a fight. So at best, they are cowards. At worse, the tacitly accept the evil. Does not bode well for us.

Blogger Durandel July 23, 2018 12:40 PM  

@Laramie Hirsch - don’t forget the Communist infiltrators too. Pope Francine is a Peronist Commie, and he isn’t the only one.

Blogger Durandel July 23, 2018 12:42 PM  

@Pyruss - and don’t forget that the attrition rate of Mexican Catholics is as high or higher than the locals. At best, they are pew sitters for a few years and then they quit.

Blogger Othello July 23, 2018 12:43 PM  

Thanks for posting this Vox.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 23, 2018 12:45 PM  

Right because everyone jokes about three year old pissing on them. Right?

Blogger Mark Stoval July 23, 2018 12:47 PM  

If the original letter writer is reading this, please tell me what city in Florida you attended this mass. Thanks.

Blogger Edward Isaacs July 23, 2018 1:03 PM  

My closest Latin Mass parish is about 30 miles away, out in the boonies, and less than a decade old... You've never seen so many young couples in one place, with miles of children. The Church building isn't even completed. By contrast the local NO parish is stereotypically aging and female.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd July 23, 2018 1:07 PM  

The novus ordo churches are mostly full of elderly people where I live. It's the opposite where I go. Though a lot of that is the very large number of children.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd July 23, 2018 1:08 PM  

They will get there. Francis is destined to fall.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 23, 2018 1:08 PM  

@19 "We have a number of trad bishops, but so far, they say stuff here and there but refuse to put up a fight. So at best, they are cowards. At worse, the tacitly accept the evil. Does not bode well for us."

From the apparition of Our Lady of Good Success in the 1600s:

"During that epoch the Church will find herself attacked by terrible hordes of the Masonic sect, and this poor Ecuadorian land will be agonizing because of the corruption of customs, unbridled luxury, the impious press, and secular education. The vices of impurity, blasphemy, and sacrilege will dominate in this time of depraved desolation, and that one who should speak out will be silent."

Blogger RM Chris July 23, 2018 1:13 PM  

Not the OP, but you can find the TLM in FL in Ocala, Sarasota, Ft. Myers and Naples.

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 1:28 PM  

> If the original letter writer is reading this, please tell me what city in Florida you attended this mass. Thanks.

Not being all that familiar with Florida's geography, I can only recommend you check the following sites:

http://latinmass.com/latinmassdirectory.html
https://www.latinmassdir.org/
http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm
http://www.cmri.org/traditional-latin-mass-directory.shtml

The latter two allow you to search by state.

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 1:47 PM  

> And when the Day of Deus Vult arrives, be ferocious.

This, a thousand times. God will have need of his soldiers. Be ready to serve.

Blogger Al K. Annossow July 23, 2018 2:05 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> And when the Day of Deus Vult arrives, be ferocious.

This, a thousand times. God will have need of his soldiers. Be ready to serve.

And in the meantime, "Be free. Be fearless." Speaking up a little in social circles makes a difference. And speak up first so the tone is set; force the evil to explain why they disagree, although most of the time they will hold their tongues as they should. You don't even have to preach; just indicate that you have morals. As much as you can, live traditional now. It will also give courage to others who are faint of heart.

Blogger Teleros July 23, 2018 2:30 PM  

In other news, even Germany is waking up:

https://www.thelocal.de/20180717/police-investigating-after-far-right-crowd-shout-to-drown-refugees-pegida

Blogger Mark Stoval July 23, 2018 2:38 PM  

@29 and @30

Thanks! I am in Orlando and can get over to Ocala to Mass. Looking forward to it.

I will do searches too. What a profitable day here among the ilk.

Blogger Jon Mollison July 23, 2018 2:42 PM  

Two weeks ago the local priest added a "tearing children from their mothers at the border is sinful" non-sequitur to his homily. A small service, they allow anyone to add their own intentions, so I asked the congregation to pray "For an end to human trafficking on our southern border and around the world." A gentle reminder to the easily led, and a sign to those gritting their teeth in the pews that they are not alone.

Yesterday one of the intentions was for those struggling to solve the complex problems of our world. A small step, and not one I take credit for, but a nice sign nonetheless.

Take those baby steps away from the brink of madness any way you can get them.

Blogger Claudio July 23, 2018 2:52 PM  

I've been attending Mass in Latin for the past few years. These guys are legit and hardcore. They favor Truth over ecumenism and are among the most devout priests I've ever encountered.

Blogger Claudio July 23, 2018 2:56 PM  

James Dixon, the CMRI list is woefully incomplete. Just here in Houston I can think of 3 churches that celebrate the Latin Mass: Annunciation, Holy Rosary, and Regina Caeli.

Blogger Fellow Traveler July 23, 2018 2:58 PM  

writer here,

Epiphany of Our Lord, Tampa

It is a diocesan parish also, not sedevacantist or SSPX (if that sort of thing matters - I don't mind SSPX in the slightest but would prefer not to stray into openly sedevacantist parishes for the time being)

The nearest SSPX communities from my location are Sanford and I believe Fort Myers

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 3:18 PM  

There is a small but growing resurgence of actual Catholicism (pre Vatican 2 kind). Although what I considere actual Catholics probably only number a few thousands, if we can get a few thousand MEN to wake up, I think the Bergoglian and Vatican 2 organised pedolegion will be in trouble.

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 3:22 PM  

If you listen to Ann Barnhardt, she explains how all the US Bishops have been essentially ordained thanks to this guy called Joseph Bernardin, who being a freak fag organised for only other freaky fags to be ordained. So in essence, the whole US bishoprate is corrupt to the core. In any case, anything even remotely contaminated with Vatican 2 needs to be purified by cleansing fire.

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 3:34 PM  

> James Dixon, the CMRI list is woefully incomplete.

That's to be expected. That's also why I gave four different sources. I don't expect even those to be complete as I don't expect they include SSPX churches and the like.

Blogger dumnonia-watchman July 23, 2018 3:35 PM  

Catholics and pagans quoted in the same post.
How appropriate.

No verses in the bible you could have used Vox? Who precisely is the 'God' your Greek chap mentions? Not Jehovah, that's for sure.

Blogger SirHamster July 23, 2018 3:42 PM  

"Be free. Be fearless. And when the Day of Deus Vult arrives, be ferocious."

Getting an Ivan Throne vibe here.

So we must.

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 3:46 PM  

> Who precisely is the 'God' your Greek chap mentions? Not Jehovah, that's for sure.

How would you know? Can you see into the hearts of men and know their true nature?

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 3:55 PM  

They will NOT get there. You can believe or not. But if you DO believe, then Canon law 188.4 of the 1917 Canon was in full force when the “popes” after 1958 brought in Vatican 2 documents. And it was in full force in 1965 when the documents came out. Being as they are completely heretical documents, any cleric, of any level, who promoted, promulgated or taught this crap as legitimate dogma is automatically considered as having vacated his office.

No public or official further notification is required because, quite reasonably, if you try to pass off heresy as Christianity you’re clearly not a Christian.
In other words, any cleric still supportive of anything Vatican 2 is not even a Christian.
What most people think is the Catholic Church is actually nothing but a shell infested with pedofiles.

Burn it all down and rebuild the real church on their ashes.

Blogger Matamoros July 23, 2018 3:55 PM  

@20 Jesus said that if they hated him they would hate Christians and his Church as well. So they have.

Read The Plot Against The Church for historical background, and actual teaching.

They have been trying for 21 centuries now to destroy the Church from within and without - haven't gotten the job done, and won't because the Church is a divine institution run by humans.

The divine element is paramount and corrective for as Vox notes: " God can always renew the human heart and rebuild new ones."

Our basilica is being renovated with the tabernacle moved back to the center of a high altar, altar rails, and all the other good stuff. God will prevail in his people.

Blogger dumnonia-watchman July 23, 2018 3:56 PM  

>How would you know? Can you see into the hearts of men and know their true nature?

I read his infolgalactic page, and Vox described him as a 'pagan'.

You should read stuff, it's useful.

Blogger Matamoros July 23, 2018 3:58 PM  

@45 Kurgan "Burn it all down and rebuild the real church on their ashes."

You seem to think that the Church is a human institution. It is not. Also the Faith is written down, and those who want to play the VatII cards are easily refuted from real teaching.

Don't give up, don't despair, God is correcting the Church in spite of the "deep state" who wish to destroy her.

Blogger Al July 23, 2018 3:58 PM  

Refreshing stuff from an indult Mass priest. They have to be careful. For example, they can never name the Jew. Still, this is quite bold stuff for a priest operating within the conciliar structure.

I recommend avoiding indult Masses and instead finding an SSPX chapel (or FSSP as a second option). None on earth are more red-pilled, on both the supernatural and natural levels, as actual Catholics (those now called "traditional" Catholics; i.e., those who reject the errors, ambiguities, and novelties of the Judas Council [i.e., the Second Vatican Council of 1962-65]).

For reading, see Angelus Press.

Here's Bp. Williamson getting really real about the perfidious Jews:

The Fundamental Opposition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcge-ne08Q

(Yes, I know that +Williamson is no longer with the SSPX. This flows from internal squabbling, not from theology.)

“Any inequality today is a horror. For the Catholic Church [the actual Catholic Church, not the post Second Vatican Council abomination represented by the perfidious likes of Pope Francis], it’s not at all a horror. God has designed everything unequal, practically everything: the flowers, the animals, the plants, the mountains, the nations, the peoples, the races, the sexes, the individuals, everything in God’s creation is unequal. What God plans is a great variety, and an order in the variety, with some things higher and some things lower. And St. Paul says in the Epistle to the Romans, ‘Don’t start questioning God on why he put this lower and put that higher.’ It’s like a building, that stone is lower than that stone and that stone is higher…. Compare blacks with whites, broadly speaking, blacks will be superior in some things and whites will be superior in others. But generally speaking, the blacks are lower down on the wall and the whites are meant to be higher up on the wall. That’s just the way it is. That’s the reality. When the whites stopped doing what they should be doing, which is leading the blacks, then….”

-Bp. Richard Williamson (2008 lecture on The Sillon, No. 3 in the Stockholm Conferences 2008 audio series at the St. Marcel Initiative website)

Also see ch. 10, entitled “The Myth of Equality,” of Fr. James Wathen’s book entitled Who Shall Ascend?

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 4:00 PM  

This^^ and yes. NO mass is basically an insult. And if you have ever been to a Latin mass and then go to a NO “mass” you will want to burn the place down as you walk out.

Blogger Tim from Nashua July 23, 2018 4:02 PM  

'Who precisely is the 'God' your Greek chap mentions?' . . .Even the pagans had an inkling of God, See Acts 17:22-34, Paul preached to them, on Mars Hill in Athens. Some heard The Word( A Greek thought of who God was), some didn't.

Blogger Al July 23, 2018 4:06 PM  

Also see The Politically Correct Guide to Catholicism, by John Zmirak. He elucidates how, for example, white Catholics are NOT bound to the suicidal xenophilia of accepting mass non-white immigration.

Blogger Al July 23, 2018 4:07 PM  

*Politically INcorrect Guide to Catholicism

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 4:21 PM  

> I read his infolgalactic page, and Vox described him as a 'pagan'.

That didn't answer my question, did it?

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 4:21 PM  

I’m working on it. Give me a few years.

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 4:31 PM  

You’re confused.
I am not at all in any kind of despair.
And yes, anything vatican 2 related needs to be burnt to the ground and the ground salted.

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 4:33 PM  

SSPX is illogical and converged. Youbeither reject V2 and all who do not or you’re part of the problem.
Sodalitium pianum.
Sedge privationists.

Blogger The Kurgan July 23, 2018 4:35 PM  

Here are some whonreject V2 in toto.

http://sodalitiumpianum.com

Blogger electricsheeple July 23, 2018 4:53 PM  

The Catholic Church is still legit at the ground floor level in most places. Of course any Christian Church is only as good as its local pastor, so its a case by case basis.

Blogger SciVo July 23, 2018 5:00 PM  

Speaking of immigration politics, it baffles me how some of the most powerful people in the country are so easily manipulated into unpopular positions. I mean, how much work did anyone put into it?

Real Americans: "It's silly to even talk about abolishing ICE, since all kinds of majorities are against it."

Fake Americans: "Ha! You're not the boss of us! We'll make it the first thing we do, soon as we can! That'll show you!"

Real Americans: "..."

N.b.: I was unable to determine when Kirsten Gillibrand's ancestors arrived in America, but her husband is British (and presumably their kids as well), so she has one foot out. A sane polity would not allow someone with such conflicted national loyalties in such a high position.

Blogger SciVo July 23, 2018 5:01 PM  

Oops, here's the Infogalactic link.

Blogger John Calla July 23, 2018 5:11 PM  

@60 Speaking of immigration politics, it baffles me how some of the most powerful people in the country are so easily manipulated into unpopular positions.

Perhaps it's their own version of trying to shift the Overton Window. Maybe they're banking on the usual complacent turnout from the reigning party during a midterm election. If they pick up some seats they can say, "See! People want open borders!"

Blogger Dirk Manly July 23, 2018 5:28 PM  

Sounds like this priest is reading the chans...

Blogger weka July 23, 2018 5:31 PM  

He is Australian, and the Aussie authorities will convict and imprison him. This is a show trial. But the liberal.cabal are preparing a victory parade.

Fools.

The Christians in Aussie know this and they will reform as something that is not cucked. Latin and old book of Common prayer on one side, haedoce reformed and penntecostal on the other.

And they will vote the rainbow out. Turnbull included.

Blogger Mark Stoval July 23, 2018 5:36 PM  

Catholic Priest Asks "So Why Are So Many Christians Still Against Migrants And Refugees?" (VIDEO)

http://libertyfight.com/8/Fr-Jim-Martin-bible-refugees.html

Damn, damn, damn.

Blogger Al July 23, 2018 5:54 PM  

@65

Fr. James Martin is a Judas Conciliarist apologist for sodomites. He's most likely a stinking sodomite himself. The Judas Council opened the floodgates to sodomites. They've thoroughly infested the hierarchy.

As for the audio entitled "Heaven Has Walls" used to refute him within that page, it's better accessed here on the Sensus Fidelium channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VKUKwxXz4c

Blogger SirHamster July 23, 2018 7:03 PM  

dumnonia-watchman wrote:

No verses in the bible you could have used Vox? Who precisely is the 'God' your Greek chap mentions? Not Jehovah, that's for sure.


Don't be so sure about that.

"Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you."

As a newbie Christian, you have no business appointing yourself inquisitor and making a nuisance of yourself towards those preparing hearts and minds for culture war.

What does the Bible say about busybodies?

Blogger Cloom Glue July 23, 2018 7:08 PM  

Not Catholic, Faisal Hussain shot 2 dead and 13 others with holes in hellhole Toronto several hours ago. A stabbing of a military ceremonial guard occurred in Ottawa today. Release of names of the dead Hussain and captured perpetrator was delayed; 250 more syrian faisal hussain white helmets are coming soon to canukistan.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=Czq6j_1532319806

Blogger Peter Parker July 23, 2018 8:07 PM  

This problem is twofold.

Do you go to a sedevecantist Tridentine parish, or a Tridentine parish that has the permission of the local diocese/bishop to use only the Tridentine Mass?

Many of the US bishops flatly refuse to allow the Tridentine Mass within their diocesean borders, Amarillo being just one example. Sedevecantist priests do not recognize the current Pope - or any post Vatican II - as legitimate, and are considered excommunicated from the RCC. And there is a huge difference between the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, versus the actual Tridentine Latin Mass.

One wonders what Francis and his cabal had that convinced Benedict to do something not seen in Catholic History, to become "Pope Emeritus".

Blogger Jack July 23, 2018 8:09 PM  

Can anyone refer me to a good compare/contrast between the traditional Latin mass and the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which the Orthodox use?

Blogger John Calla July 23, 2018 8:36 PM  

@69 or a Tridentine parish that has the permission of the local diocese/bishop to use only the Tridentine Mass?

Many of the US bishops flatly refuse to allow the Tridentine Mass within their diocesean borders


A priest no longer requires the permission of his bishop to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass. If a priest is being prevented from doing so he should consult with people in the TLM community who can give him direction.

From what I've seen, in cases where bishops persecute the TLM there is usually something demonic at play (Oklahoma) or something similar.

Blogger James Dixon July 23, 2018 9:32 PM  

> Can anyone refer me to a good compare/contrast between the traditional Latin mass and the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which the Orthodox use?

Simply Google "comparison of Tridentine mass and Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom" and you'll find half a dozen appropriate links on the first page. I'm not qualified to judge their accuracy though.

Blogger eclecticme July 23, 2018 9:47 PM  

This is off topic but not as off topic as it might first appear. I just came across this video translation of a Putin speech. It knocked me on my butt. I had not heard it before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJdxNEgWirM

Blogger marcvsthebard July 23, 2018 10:08 PM  

Fellow Traveler wrote:writer here,

Epiphany of Our Lord, Tampa


Fellow Epiphany parishioner here. Do you attend the men's Holy League meetings? There's one this Thursday at 6pm - Rosary and lessons from the Catechism of St. Pius X, followed by scotch and cigars. It's always a great night.

Blogger Silver Chief July 23, 2018 10:33 PM  

I was raised Lutheran. Decades ago I had a Catholic GF. She took me to a mass. My only knowledge of Catholic Mass was from movies. Latin, incense, etc.
There was some priest with an ex-nun playing guitar. People did not wear their Sunday best, they wore old blue jeans. The mass was on Saturday night so people could sleep in. I did not know you could move the sabbath. I was shocked and repulsed. I will never forget that moment.

Blogger Student in Blue July 24, 2018 12:02 AM  

I did not know you could move the sabbath. I was shocked and repulsed. I will never forget that moment.

The Sabbath was originally on Saturday, as far as I know. Instead, Christians started worshiping on Sunday in remembrance of Easter.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( don't ask, "Who mentats the Mentats?", ask instead, "Who shitpoasts the Shitpoasters?" ) July 24, 2018 12:34 AM  

75. Silver Chief July 23, 2018 10:33 PM
The mass was on Saturday night so people could sleep in. I did not know you could move the sabbath



*facedesk*

Blogger bob kek mando - ( don't ask, "Who mentats the Mentats?", ask instead, "Who shitpoasts the Shitpoasters?" ) July 24, 2018 12:34 AM  

oh, and Jesus spoke Aramaic not Latin.

Blogger Jon Mollison July 24, 2018 1:41 AM  

Wrongo, friend. The sabbath is sundown Saturday to sundown Sunday.

Also. The Saturday mass is a vigil mass. All services are a replication of the Last Supper, but Saturday's turns that dial up a notch higher than Sunday services.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( don't ask, "Who mentats the Mentats?", ask instead, "Who shitpoasts the Shitpoasters?" ) July 24, 2018 2:13 AM  

79. Jon Mollison July 24, 2018 1:41 AM
Wrongo, friend. The sabbath is sundown Saturday to sundown Sunday.


the Sabbath has *never* been on Sunday.

Sunday is the first day of the week.

God Himself declared the seventh day ( Saturday ) as the day of rest, in honor of His labors for Creation and decreed that it should be remembered in honor of Him.

the remembrance of the seventh day is, in fact, THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT ISSUED BY GOD.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+2&version=KJV
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus+31&version=KJV
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

the Jews have always observed Saturday as sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

characterizing Sunday as the 'Sabbath' is just sloppy post facto justification of the Catholic Church trying to supersede pagan worship days. it's no more valid than the celibate and unmarried priesthood ( which novelty the Catholic Church waited ~1000 years after the crucifixion to implement ).

Blogger Ervin Huntley July 24, 2018 6:48 AM  

My family and I have attended Latin Mass for several years. Our parish is thriving, full of large young families. Last Sunday, in procession behind the crucifer were twenty-two alter boys, four young men in discernment, and two canons. This is the norm for us. Our canons are serious masculine men whose homilies are forthright and intellectual. There is no going back. The insipid NOM is just a sad charade in comparison - it doesn't even feel like mass to us anymore.

Blogger Michael July 24, 2018 7:15 AM  

Bob...You gotta count time the way the ancient Jews did...sun down to sundown. Otherwise Jesus did not rise on the third day.

Blogger bob kek mando - ( don't ask, "Who mentats the Mentats?", ask instead, "Who shitpoasts the Shitpoasters?" ) July 24, 2018 7:43 AM  

"the Jews have always observed Saturday as sundown Friday to sundown Saturday."

when was that said, and who said it?

Blogger Cloom Glue July 24, 2018 7:46 AM  

In case readers get the wrong idea from @80 : Celibacy and other aspects of a monastic life are not just a Roman Catholic invention at 1000A.D.. That is not what Bob Kek said but it could be misread that way.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_chisto_en.html

Blogger Michael July 24, 2018 8:05 AM  

The Jews,by your count of days, Jesus rose on day 2. The Jews use a lunar calendar.

Blogger dumnonia-watchman July 24, 2018 11:00 AM  

@Hamster:

>'If we wish for nothing but what God wills, we shall be truly free, and all will come to pass with us according to our desire; and we shall be as little subject to restraint as Zeus himself.'

Go on, try to argue he really meant Jehovah in his heart.
The Aeneid eh? Heh.

Blogger SirHamster July 24, 2018 11:57 AM  

dumnonia-watchman wrote:Go on, try to argue he really meant Jehovah in his heart.

He's a pagan, of course his conception is wrong to a degree. Even the conception of God by Bible believers can be wrong by degrees, because that's how far His way is above our ways. We see by a glass darkly.

The pagan's intent is irrelevant to the utility and truth of his observation; what pagans observe about who they call God can sometimes align with God's actual attributes.

With what Vox chose to quote, do you disagree that God is within us and can see what goes on in the dark and behind closed doors?

Even a pagan was able to glimpse God's ability and justice. How much more we should recognize, trust, and depend on God's ability and justice.

Blogger James Dixon July 24, 2018 3:42 PM  

> 'If we wish for nothing but what God wills, we shall be truly free, and all will come to pass with us according to our desire; and we shall be as little subject to restraint as Zeus himself.'
> Go on, try to argue he really meant Jehovah in his heart.

How about you tell us where he's wrong in that statement. Or don't you know the collect from the Book of Common Prayer that goes "O God, who art the author of peace and lover of concord, in knowledge of whom standeth our eternal life, whose service is perfect freedom..."

Blogger dumnonia-watchman July 24, 2018 4:58 PM  

You're both fruitcakes, given that he refers to Zeus, and yet still you try to defend him.

Quite simply amazing to behold.

I'll leave you to talk amongst yourselves now.

Blogger James Dixon July 24, 2018 6:55 PM  

> You're both fruitcakes, given that he refers to Zeus, and yet still you try to defend him.

He spoke of the god he knew. But I notice you don't have an answer to my question.

Blogger SirHamster July 24, 2018 7:25 PM  

dumnonia-watchman wrote:You're both fruitcakes, given that he refers to Zeus, and yet still you try to defend him.

A reference to Zeus in a different quote does not negate the truth value of what Vox quoted, cupcake.

Sometimes people accidentally say truthful things they did not mean to. The lover of truth can appreciate the truth in such statements.

It's not a sin to quote pagans, or to make use of their earthly wisdom in pursuit of Deus Vult.

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 3:17 PM  

@76 the Sabbath was abolished shortly after the Bar Kokhba rebellion of 136AD, as per the prophets Hosea and Jeremiah. The original Sabbath was on fixed days of the lunar month. Rome removed the New Moon from the Sabbath count, leading to the Saturday sabbath, and then under Constantine, Christianity shifted to a Sunday "Lord's Day".

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 6:44 PM  

SirHamster wrote:dumnonia-watchman wrote:Go on, try to argue he really meant Jehovah in his heart.

He's a pagan, of course his conception is wrong to a degree.


Wrong to a degree. That is the only difference you see between pagan Zeus and Biblical Jehovah? Do you claim to be Christian?


Even the conception of God by Bible believers can be wrong by degrees, because that's how far His way is above our ways. We see by a glass darkly.


Ergo, you can run around referring to Jehovah as "Zeus" and "Baal" and "Moloch"?


The pagan's intent is irrelevant to the utility and truth of his observation; what pagans observe about who they call God can sometimes align with God's actual attributes.


Classic misdirection. Read the original chain of comments. I used to think you were just Gamma. Now I believe you are more insidious. Congratulations.


With what Vox chose to quote, do you disagree that God is within us and can see what goes on in the dark and behind closed doors?


How is that relevant to what Dumnonia was saying?


Even a pagan was able to glimpse God's ability and justice. How much more we should recognize, trust, and depend on God's ability and justice.


You certainly need it. Your reading comprehension is abysmal, your charity appears to be non-existent.

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 6:47 PM  

@78 check out the work of Bivin and Blizzard, Bob. Jesus definitely spoke Hebrew, and possibly understood Aramaic, as they are very similar languages.

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 6:52 PM  

@80 Bob, the Jews did NOT always observe the sabbath as Sundown to Sundown. Source here: http://loveandtruth.net/twelve-hour-sabbath.html

Blogger SirHamster July 25, 2018 7:12 PM  

Vaughan Williams wrote:He's a pagan, of course his conception is wrong to a degree.

Wrong to a degree. That is the only difference you see between pagan Zeus and Biblical Jehovah? Do you claim to be Christian?


Don't convert my acknowledgement that error exists in the pagan conception of God into a claim of a singular difference between Zeus and Jehovah.

That is poor reading comprehension. The rest of your criticism is of the same low quality.


Vaughan Williams wrote:You certainly need it. Your reading comprehension is abysmal, your charity appears to be non-existent.

"appears" - or in another word, "seems". Gamma.

Especially when you accuse me of poor reading comprehension while demonstrating same.

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 9:14 PM  

SirHamster wrote:Vaughan Williams wrote:He's a pagan, of course his conception is wrong to a degree.

Wrong to a degree. That is the only difference you see between pagan Zeus and Biblical Jehovah? Do you claim to be Christian?


Don't convert my acknowledgement that error exists in the pagan conception of God into a claim of a singular difference between Zeus and Jehovah.


Quit changing the topic. This isn't about you.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2018 9:43 PM  

> That is the only difference you see between pagan Zeus and Biblical Jehovah? Do you claim to be Christian?

What does the difference we see matter? We're not talking about what we see or know. We're talking about what he saw and knew.

But you seem awfully certain of his knowledge and intent. I guess you must think you actually can see into the hearts of men and know their true nature. That's a real gift, especially when the man has been dead for centuries.

> Your reading comprehension is abysmal, your charity appears to be non-existent.

Oh, I think our reading comprehension is slightly better than yours. As for charity, I give the charity I get. What more can you expect from a fruitcake?

Blogger Vaughan Williams July 25, 2018 10:19 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> That is the only difference you see between pagan Zeus and Biblical Jehovah? Do you claim to be Christian?

What does the difference we see matter? We're not talking about what we see or know. We're talking about what he saw and knew.


Nice try at changing the topic of the sentence. Not buying it.


But you seem awfully certain of his knowledge and intent. I guess you must think you actually can see into the hearts of men and know their true nature. That's a real gift, especially when the man has been dead for centuries.


You would discount what the man reveals about himself through his own words and actions? How very Churchian. Not Biblical. Read the book of Proverbs. It says a lot about exactly how you can know what is a man's heart.


Oh, I think our reading comprehension is slightly better than yours. As for charity, I give the charity I get. What more can you expect from a fruitcake?


I never called you a fruitcake. Is that an example of your superior reading comprehension?

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