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Monday, August 27, 2018

Mailvox: the archetypal forked tongue

A Voxiversity viewer shares his initial skepticism about Jordanetics:
I'll tell you the point when I started having doubts about Jordan Peterson. You may remember that Jordan Peterson went out of his way at one point praising Milo and saying how he embodies an archetypal trickster persona. It was quite a passionate and interesting analysis. Fast forward a year or so and Jordan Peterson is talking with some twat from the New York Times who pronounces Milo a "racist." Now, that is obviously not true when you consider the fact that Milo's husband is black! And Jordan Peterson KNOWS that Milo is not a racist. Suddenly he starts to denounce Milo and nod his head in agreement with the suggestion that Milo is a "racist." WTF??

So I guess Jordan Peterson can't stand up for someone who is being maligned by some twat from the New York Times. Meanwhile, he spent the whole talk discussing the important of "not telling little lies."
Jordan Peterson knows perfectly well which side he's on and it's not the side of the Beautiful, the Good, and the True. It's a pity that so few of the conservatives that he has successfully bamboozled with his bafflegarble do.

It's fascinating to see that there have already been more than 800 comments on the most recent Voxiversity video and more downvotes for it than there hitherto have been for all the Voxiversity and the Darkstream videos combined. Based on the number of comments like the one above, we could do at least four more videos tearing apart the fraud that is Peterson and never repeat ourselves once. The hysterical reaction of his fans and the variety of inept ways they attempt to disqualify the video clearly indicates that they know, on some level, that the leader of their little cult is eventually going to be exposed as a charlatan.
I don’t care if you agree with him or not, for a man who never tries to attack someone’s character, the editing and insulting takes down any real argument you have, regardless of religion being flat out baseless and without logic, when it comes to god isn’t it the Christian way to let people believe in what they believe in their own way, or do you need to be as authoritarian as possible, and before you call me some leftist soy boy or cuckservative I’m a centrist, with a long history of reading about the idea of religion and god, and while I don’t agree with everything Peterson says, he conducts himself with remarkable civility, try to learn about that.
It's always fascinating to see a rhetoric-speaker utilize pseudo-rhetoric in an attempt to disqualify dialectic. How could one's decorative rhetoric, however vicious, possibly have any effect whatsoever on the underlying logical syllogisms? And it never ceases to amaze me how little Jordan Peterson's fans actually know about what he believes, says, writes, and does.

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50 Comments:

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 27, 2018 6:59 AM  

I used to like JBP a lot. Even after you had started taking him apart, while I saw some of your points, I still found him interesting. Having seen a few of his appearances since then, though, I can't help but not how frequently his answers are evasive or ambiguous, trying to have it both ways. When asked, for instance, who he would have voted for in the U.S. presidential election, he said that he probably would have gone in intending to vote for Hillary, but at the last moment switched to Trump. Or when asked about the censorship of Alex Jones, he said he thought the government should do something, but shortly after said he wasn't calling for regulation. It's obnoxious once you start noticing it.

Blogger Amy August 27, 2018 7:01 AM  

“I’m a centrist”

Nuff said.

Murdoch Murdoch skewered Peterson. If all of these centrists who read a lot about religion but think Christianity means letting people believe in God any way they want to (lolwut?), that vid could maybe open their eyes enough to let in a speck of dust.

Blogger Garuna August 27, 2018 7:06 AM  

I used to think he was Alt-Lite because he constantly implied it. But it's clear now that he has only duped right-wingers. It's ridiculous how his supporters insist that he is a brave man who has sacrificed so much. He has only gained fame and money from all this. Any time you need him to really stand up to the establishment, he cucks.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len August 27, 2018 7:07 AM  

Ah, the phrase that betrays for every spineless shitweasel who ever polished a bowtie: "civility".

"Winning doesn't matter, it's the how nice you are, so Be Nice!"

Blogger Edward Isaacs August 27, 2018 7:20 AM  

>and never repeat ourselves once
But why? Repetition is the best rhetoric. Repetition is the best rhetoric. Repetition is the best rhetoric.

Don't just make four more videos, make four hundred!

Blogger Garuna August 27, 2018 7:21 AM  

Vox really struck a nerve with the mocking attitude in the video. Peterson fans crave validation. This is why the ignored the great culture warriors of 2016 and instead went for the guy who is "serious" and "intellectual". Mockery will probably be the strongest tool in taking down the Peterson cult.

Blogger SirMaorio August 27, 2018 7:28 AM  

the last comment was classic "centrist" and "muh civility" cucservative, I could almost hear Vox say "cuck" in the background there.

as to the first commentor, I had no idea about that but it does follow the pattern. this is pbj clearly showing who greases his palm and scratches his back...

Blogger Cataline Sergius August 27, 2018 7:34 AM  

Honestly, I started by not caring about him.

Rule #1: Never accept an atheist as a moral authority.

Never.

The only judge an atheist will accept for his own choices is the Self.

Any moral code they issue, can only be an exercise in aesthetics.

There is no finer start on the road to damnation than that.

Blogger Michael Maier August 27, 2018 7:40 AM  

Someone here linked to a video of JBP of a guy giving him a translation of a book and then asking about the Jews being behind the Revolution in the USSR and intentionally causing the deaths of millions of Soviet Christians.

Peterson almost ran to the other side of the stage and cowered, covering his face. Grainy video shot from far away, but if someone told me he was crying over there, I would not have been surprised.

I'm no fan of "gotcha" moments in public, but he ASKS for this from his audiences. You'd think he'd be better prepared, mentally.

"Clean your mental room", essentially.

Blogger Michael Maier August 27, 2018 7:41 AM  

Cataline Sergius wrote:Honestly, I started by not caring about him.

Rule #1: Never accept an atheist as a moral authority.

Never.

The only judge an atheist will accept for his own choices is the Self.

Any moral code they issue, can only be an exercise in aesthetics.

There is no finer start on the road to damnation than that.


Seconded.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 27, 2018 7:50 AM  

Never paid any attention to Peterson or your series of Voxiversity but damn that was well done.

I third Cataline's comment, but I may add that IMO conservatives exist to validate the moral authority of atheists. How else do you get your golden bow tie?

Blogger tuberman August 27, 2018 7:58 AM  

JP fans are often Gammas, but almost always neurotic dogs, terrified of looking directly at reality, barking in the wrong directions. This applies to most normies and "conservatives" too.

Some normies though have been improving recently, by my observations.

Blogger tuberman August 27, 2018 8:01 AM  

"Mockery will probably be the strongest tool in taking down the Peterson cult."

^^^THIS^^^

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim August 27, 2018 8:11 AM  

Another thing that irked me was Peterson’s distraction with indigenous peoples of Canada and how he would polish that turd and hoist it in the sunlight whenever people would ask him about his “racist” audience. I don’t care that you have physical ugly masks to compliment your psychological masks.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2018 8:16 AM  

Damn. That video was brutal. Production wise things have gotten a ton better too. Kudos brother.

Blogger Homesteader August 27, 2018 9:06 AM  

It's fun watching Pepe kick the crap out of Kermit.

Blogger RC August 27, 2018 9:11 AM  

He is so worked up he couldn't find the period on the keyboard. You can write for the rest of your life and not use a comma dear critic but the period is required to communicate cogent thought. Is this N.K. Jimisin?

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira August 27, 2018 9:18 AM  

>I’m a centrist, with a long history of reading about the idea of religion and god, and while I don’t agree with everything Peterson says, he conducts himself with remarkable civility, try to learn about that.

My sides have joined the asteroid belt.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz August 27, 2018 9:20 AM  

The Voxisversity team did an excellent job on the content, but I really think the video is overproduced. It reminds me of some of the Prager-U videos. It's just kind of overboard in that one respect.

But the Jordantards will find any reason to dismiss criticism of their hero. It's just too painful to accept that you've been idolizing a madman.

Blogger VD August 27, 2018 9:28 AM  

The Voxisversity team did an excellent job on the content, but I really think the video is overproduced.

The number of views and comments demonstrate that your opinion is neither objective nor well-founded. You're rather like the woman who thought Ann Coulter would be so much more successful if only she were nicer.

She had the #1 bestselling book in the country at the time.

It's not about what you like. It's about what is most effective. It's not my style either, hell, the entire video medium is not my style. But that's what is necessary today.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums August 27, 2018 9:32 AM  

I learned a lot from Peterson but what I learned wasn't FROM him. The Pareto principle is important but he didn't come up with that. Poverty does not lead to crime but he didn't discover this.

Virtually everything worthwhile he says is information he got from somewhere else. To his credit he never attributed it to himself and he does have interviews on his channel with the people involved. He constantly harps on and on about what Jung, Solzhenitsyn, Eliade, and others said. Those who can do, those who can't teach about those who can. Peterson is an excellent professor in this regard.

Maybe this is why he dances on both sides of the coin. He's taking his "teacher" job seriously and refuses to take a side because he's just there to pass on information. Kinda like what Neil deGrasse Tyson does. Strip him away from the information he obtained from other people and he doesn't even reach Gordon Ramsey's level of wisdom.

Neither Neil deGrasse Tyson nor Gordon Ramsey fans are this fanatical though. Nor do they equate astronomy or gastronomy with them. Add to this Peterson's massive popularity and it's a great reminder of how gullible people still are. Salesmanship is far more important than the product and crying on camera is still an effective pitch.

Blogger Caffeineforge August 27, 2018 9:39 AM  

Funniest Jordanetics video you'll see maybe ever. https://youtu.be/_-tlZY9NEMk

Blogger Gregory the Great August 27, 2018 9:50 AM  

When he talks about the ban of Alex Jones he criticizes just one thing: that Google and Facebook have undertaken something they can only achieve through massive manpower and at a financial loss, i.e. censor each and everything published by anybody.
That's all. He does not comment on the political strategy and the malevolent intent behind this. All he seems to worry about is the feasability and the costs of censoring everybody.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz August 27, 2018 10:05 AM  

@22 Mister Metokur was on to Peterson 8 months ago. Metokur (whose audience has a lot of overlap with Peterson fans) got the same spergery and autism VD is getting. Saint Jordan shall not be criticized!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFi4p4QC44

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums August 27, 2018 10:08 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ_mfVH1QZI
Peterson vs. Peterson

Blogger Cloom Glue August 27, 2018 10:18 AM  

@22 I did not know it was an impressionist doing Jordan Peterson. That is very funny.

I wrote in the comments, of the original video, a reply to somebody annoyed that video does not say anything and that is why it is a mockery of Peterson:

It is funny because it is true. Jordan B Peterson does not say anything at all. It is not just funny because the imitation voice is accurate. We have heard accurate impressionists who have no comedic material.

Blogger Cloom Glue August 27, 2018 10:27 AM  

@25 is pretty good too.

Blogger The future is Darreing August 27, 2018 10:28 AM  

I find it telling that this person chose to use a lowercase g for The Almighty God, but capitalized his precious peterson.

Blogger Cloom Glue August 27, 2018 10:36 AM  

@22 Impressionist of Peterson prepares to read Three Little Pigs and then does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpNgM5Vvxrw

The ending is perfect.

Blogger Abyssus Invocat August 27, 2018 10:53 AM  

The only thing you find in the centre of the road is a yellow stripe or a dead animal.

Blogger Nate73 August 27, 2018 11:08 AM  

I would say my disappointment with Peterson went in two parts. First was when he deplatformed Faith Goldy and refused offers of debate from both marxists and white nationalists (why not just watch a Skeptic on youtube for someone who refuses to debate others?). Second he disparaged the mrm by suggesting men avoiding marriage were "pathetic weasels", then gave a weak disingenuous apology afterward. Second was when I learned that Milo didn't understand him. If someone as intelligent and well-read as Milo doesn't get him... then maybe there's nothing there to get. It took Vox for me to really grasp the crazy/mental instability angle, because lots of people have weird voices or speak disjointedly. But after watching the video I'm convinced he's suicidal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDgQMGs7Mc

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey August 27, 2018 11:14 AM  

Some enterprising soul asked JP this during his latest Q&A: "(Q#5) Are you aware of any critics of your work that are deep and credible? (someone who at minimum has read Maps of Meaning)?"

Peterson's answer, "Of course not". Because apparently:

1) Nobody understands Jung but true experts like himself.
2) Maps of Meaning marries neuropsychology with mythology, so it's not understandable.
3) Even though (or maybe because) Maps of Meaning is not understandable, there are no known holes in it.
4) Maps of Meaning has somehow become even more true than it was initially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWrLx8b2mQ&t=2963s



Blogger Daniel August 27, 2018 11:15 AM  

NB: Based on this thoughtful response I believe "Voxiversity Student" or "Scholar" might be a better term here, rather than viewer.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar August 27, 2018 11:25 AM  

Peterson is a chatty swell, who is capable of occasionally delivering an unexpected torpedo below an adversary's waterline. Therefore, he is a hero to people in a world where there are not enough heroes. The same type of follower would be mixing and drinking Kool-Aid for Rev. Jones. Don't expect to sway too many until after Peterson has completely fallen from grace. imho.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums August 27, 2018 11:26 AM  

https://imgur.com/a/fiTF9bk

Blogger Lance E August 27, 2018 11:41 AM  

Ah, good old "centrists", who are totally not leftists, even though they agree with the left and disagree with the right on practically everything. They're just being rational, you see!

Blogger Unknown August 27, 2018 11:50 AM  

I really liked JP when he started. Then I watched VD's video. Found it jarring for about 5 minutes. Then I felt foolish.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel August 27, 2018 11:52 AM  

These things are more like commercials. The truly interested will dig into the the other information that’s out there. I think the video is great & kudos to the editor.

Blogger Cloom Glue August 27, 2018 12:26 PM  

@32 I played up to 53:17 and I see in the chat comments to Jordan and to his followers, "GammaCatch: So, we are not going to get to see JPB vs. Vox Day"? ha. We all do our small part spreading the word.

Blogger Cluttermonkey August 27, 2018 2:06 PM  

Just confirms the cargo cult hypothesis about Petergon followers: even their "arguments" are cargo cult attempts at mimicking dialectic. I've even seen Moly's "not an argument" bandied senselessly about.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants August 27, 2018 3:49 PM  

That's what triggered me the most, as well.
Civility. I hear that and think "George Will."
Which isn't a compliment.
I had only paid a peripheral attention to Peterson in the beginning, he seemed ok from the 2-3 5 min clips I'd watched in his classroom, but when he started getting MSM popular & giving interviews-wew,laddies.
I thought he sounded like someone with a very tenuous grip on his sanity.
I still feel that way, t bh.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants August 27, 2018 3:58 PM  

Yes. The deplatforming of Faith Goldy, a mild- mannered Christian woman working for Ezra "shekles" Levant, steps one step outside of the hug box, and both men take her down.
That was the day I was done with Juden, FOREVER.
His character in that moment told me all I'd ever need to know about him.
The event last Thanksgiving Day when he completely sperged out on Twitter and ended up insisting he be addressed as DOCTOR Jordan B Peterson was the tail end of the no redemption arc, IMO.

Blogger tublecane August 27, 2018 6:46 PM  

I had my doubts about Peterson as soon as I became aware of his existence, which was with that Pay Gap interview. It was hilarious, but mostly for her part. He pulled his punches, or so I thought. Not that I know how to handle myself on television, but she was fish in a barrel.

I didn't actively dislike him until that article about the Jewish Question, which was offensive and quite obviously written by a liar.

Blogger tublecane August 27, 2018 6:54 PM  

@32- Or maybe it's simply that no one with the (supposed) proper qualifications has bothered.

Blogger Damaris Tighe August 27, 2018 8:14 PM  

jungian mysticism could well be the foundation of a pseudo-religion. peterson sees himself as a shaman.
if we must be bamboozled it's a slight improvement on social justice. peterson is pushing an individualist self-improvement scheme that does not even recognise the problems of the west.


perhaps we could swap it for social justice.

Blogger tublecane August 28, 2018 12:19 AM  

@45- No. That is not an option. Choosing Petersonian Self-help means social justice steamrolls you.

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Blogger Anglo Diaspora August 28, 2018 12:12 PM  

It’s amusing how many people confuse Christianity with comity. I believe the relevant passage starts with “Do not assume I am come to bring peace on Earth...”

Blogger Sagramore August 28, 2018 3:41 PM  

@2 "Wash your penis."

Still wouldn't mind one of Jordan McLuhan's $2,000 rugs, as long as you knock two zeros off the price.

@24 Vox and Jim, the interview. I'd love to see it. Notice that he was unpersoned from Twitter (and even YT for a while) today.

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