Thursday, October 11, 2018

Darkstream: Jordan Peterson stars as Wormtongue

From the transcript of the Darkstream:

It's really amazing to see how someone like Jordan Peterson simply doesn't understand that people pay attention to what you say, and that people pay attention to what you said yesterday. People pay attention to what you wrote! He seems to think that as long as you fold, spindle, and mutilate the ideas that are coming out of your mouth, as long as you pretend to be thinking very seriously, really debating with yourself and thinking very hard like you've never ever thought about the subject before, then you can say whatever you want. Because, you know, you don't think you're right, it's just a thought experiment, it's just an idea, just, you know, contemplating various options and throwing ideas out there. It's total bullshit! It is from the start, it is all the way through, it is at the finish.

Let me make it clear for you: Jordan Peterson is a used car salesman, except the used car he is selling is himself. Okay? He's not your dad, he's not your uncle, he is somebody who is making a lot of money off of you and people like you because you're dumb enough to fall for this guy! Look, I'm a writer, I am an editor, and I knew before I finished the first chapter of 12 Rules of Life that Jordan Peterson was an intellectual charlatan. Now, I will admit that I wasn't aware that he was a complete lunatic until I read Maps of Meaning. I didn't realize that there was something genuinely wrong with him until I read Maps of Meaning and I didn't realize how totally full of bullshit he is until I watched some of his videos.

Look, when you see him pull this move, "no, I've never thought about this before, I'm really just working my way through the same thing that I've been asked about 50 times before, but I want you to think that I'm really trying to puzzle my way through this and I don't want you to hold me accountable for anything that I say," I mean, you should be embarrassed! You should be irritated with yourself for listening to this guy at all!

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Blogger Gregory the Great October 11, 2018 11:06 AM  

I'm just listening to this. In the beginning when you started talking with this funny whiny voice I was not sure if you were imitating JP or Christine Ford. This impression is no accident probably as they are both of the same ilk.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 11, 2018 11:23 AM  

In hindsight it seems almost unbelievable that this guy actually has fairly reasonable ideas regarding genetic differences between male and female. Had he forgotten to take his pills at that time?

Blogger Welsh Woodsman October 11, 2018 11:24 AM  

"Let me make it clear for you: Jordan Peterson is a used car salesman, except the used car he is selling is himself. Okay? He's not your dad, he's not your uncle, he is somebody who is making a lot of money off of you and people like you because you're dumb enough to fall for this guy!"

I've never understand the cult of personality that surrounds this guy. People are just wowed by this man's "intelligence". Have we as a society become so dumb that this man seems brilliant ? Its rather pathetic. I'm no genius and yet he doesn't strike me as being that smart. Verbose - yes; insightful or super intelligent - no!
Compared to men like Mencken, Chesterton or even Twain - the guy is a veritable mid-wit.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 11, 2018 11:47 AM  

Twain especially would have eaten this guy for breakfast, second breakfast, brunch, lunch, snacks, dinner, second dinner, dessert, etc.

I can see a "there you go again" moment obliterating JBP.

Blogger Mocheirge October 11, 2018 11:52 AM  

Gregory the Great wrote:In hindsight it seems almost unbelievable that this guy actually has fairly reasonable ideas regarding genetic differences between male and female. Had he forgotten to take his pills at that time?

He may have been on a cider bender.

Blogger Peaceful Poster October 11, 2018 12:01 PM  

This Darkstream was High Energy!

Blogger tublecane October 11, 2018 12:03 PM  

@3- The authors you mention, they were Men of Letters who wrote in a variety of genres: essay, fiction, travelogue, etc. None of them were considered true philosophers, I don't think. Chesterton was a lay theologian but didn't do theology-proper. Mencken wrote books explaining and riffing off of Nietzsche, but I wouldn't call them works of philosophy in themselves.

Furthermore, they didn't fancy themselves scientists. Maybe Mencken did linguistics, but that's as close as you get. Herr Doktor Professor Peterson, on the other hand, is a Clinical Psychologist and philosopher-manqué. Master of humanities and science, la-di-da.

What have those credentials and that supposed learning got JP? Money, okay. But also thoughts and writing immeasurably crappier than old amateurs.

Blogger Alex October 11, 2018 12:06 PM  

I considered myself a fan based purely on his filing it out with SJWs and extemporizing on the dangers of post-modernism. And then I read 12 Rules for Life, and the bloom really started to come off the Peterson rose. This was, maybe, two weeks before you started to examine the man, Vox. After reading your criticisms, I get vindicated that, no, *I* wasn’t the crazy one and that there really is not much to Peterson.

What a fraud.

Blogger tublecane October 11, 2018 12:10 PM  

@4- I wonder about Twain, who was a mugwump. NeverTrumpers have exceedingly mugwumpian characteristics. Acting as if they're above it all, trying to pretend the center is vital. Though Twain did support Cleveland and I like Cleveland, relatively speaking.

That's politically speaking. Just in terms of pure wit, Twain would make Peterson's cousin-meat nightmare come true after he nuked him.

Blogger Peaceful Poster October 11, 2018 12:17 PM  

Nice youtube comment by Big Bear.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 11, 2018 12:19 PM  

Peterson also has a habit of making vague references to others' works (e.g., Jung) without explaining exactly what he's talking about. It's a way of puffing up his own ego without conveying anything meaningful to most of his audience.

Contrast this with Vox. If Vox makes mentions some philosopher he's almost certain to also reference the principle or argument that is relevant to the discussion, not just leave the readers and/or audience wondering what he's talking about.

Blogger #7139 October 11, 2018 12:36 PM  

Excellent lunch time entertainment.

Blogger ted beale October 11, 2018 12:44 PM  

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Blogger ted beale October 11, 2018 12:48 PM  

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Blogger widlast washere October 11, 2018 12:59 PM  

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Blogger BassmanCO October 11, 2018 1:00 PM  

Dude, don't touch the poop. Won't be here long.

Blogger Jay in DC October 11, 2018 1:47 PM  

I'm with @8 in some ways. I was very ambivalent about Peterson though liked lots of what he had to say.

VD clearly had a hard-on for him though I always understood why too which is a guy like that who starts to build a mass audience can do a lot of damage if he suddenly shifts gears and turns into a 'National Reviewite' which it seems he just did basically.

I think lots of people like me that simply weren't terribly interested in him, for better or worse, now ARE interested in him. (For Worse) It is a hell of a thing to go full National Review Cuck, and then after catching mad heat about it, to crawl on your belly and spin in circles to walk it all back.

It speaks volumes about character and spine IMHO.

Blogger Unknown October 11, 2018 1:50 PM  

This sort of backtracking is something you might see in a young, inexperienced writer. But Peterson is in his mid 50s. He knows this is weasely. He's just counting on his sycophants to not call him on his bullshit.

Blogger Gregory the Great October 11, 2018 2:33 PM  

His dreams may be crazy, but even crazier is the fact that he publishes them for everybody to see. The guy knows no boundaries between his phantasies and reality.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 2:55 PM  


I've never understand the cult of personality that surrounds this guy. People are just wowed by this man's "intelligence". Have we as a society become so dumb that this man seems brilliant ? Its rather pathetic. I'm no genius and yet he doesn't strike me as being that smart. Verbose - yes; insightful or super intelligent - no!"

I think it was the Cathy Newman interview, when he destroyed her defense of "hate-speech" prohibition and feminist advocacy of "men's hard-earned pay for women's comfortable, easy work"

Blogger Trebor Nosemaj October 11, 2018 3:36 PM  

I don't know if you've been working on your vocal delivery for your videos, but if so, it's much appreciated in this one. Thanks.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 4:10 PM  

I stumbled onto Peterson maybe a week after he made that YT video about refusing to give in to the SJW gender mob.
At first I thought he was very sincere, if not a bit weird. I was willing to overlook his being weird. I listened to about 10 of his videos. Then I started noticing him going on Alt-Right podcasts. Despite him having a friendly host, I noticed he was very much against nationalism ethnic or otherwise. By then, his patreon was at $65k a month! Then came the Faith Goldy incident. While I don't listen to Fash the Nation, I was disgusted by his throwing Faith (who I am not a fan of) under the bus for the crime of not fighting with the host of that show, of which she was a guest.
Then Metokur did an episode with him and I found out all those Alt-Right shows he appeared on were paid interviews. I also learned he was selling his fans a shitty personality test for $5. The "clean your room" thing started. Then he hid his patreon numbers while pretending to be principled and above plebish things like money. Of course, his fans reacted exactly the way one would think. He started chumming around with Rubin and the Weinsteins. The Harris disaster happened. And a bunch of other stuff. I seriously doubt his cult is not even close to being ready to abandon their wacky leader.

Blogger Tim October 11, 2018 5:37 PM  

One person who you should pay more attention to is Chris Langan and his theory. Unlike peterson chris is honest and forthright about the issues we are facing.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 11, 2018 5:55 PM  

It didn't occur to me to use his definition of truth on his latest attacks. That was hilarious.

"Kavanaugh compromised himself somewhat during this process. No doubt this claim will also attract its share of criticism. But I don’t exactly buy his explanations of his high school slang, nor his refusal to admit drinking to the point of being unable to remember. It’s very common for young men to joke in a denigrating manner about women, often to mask their fear (and very rarely as a consequence of genuine anger) and it doesn’t require that much alcohol to produce failure of memory (certainly no more than the typical wild-partying teenager might imbibe, particular before the development of tolerance for drink and familiarity with the effects of over-indulgence). I also think that he made a strategic mistake insisting upon the partisan nature of the nomination process (even though what he said was at least in part accurate). That wasn’t timed well. Kavanaugh made mistakes. Now, no one is perfect, and if perfection is the prerequisite for public office then we are going to run damn short of politicians and administrators. But becoming a Supreme Court Justice is not just another opportunity, and it isn’t obvious to me that nominees get to make such mistakes under such intense circumstances without doing permanent damage to their credibility (and, much worse, to the credibility of the court)."

Don't do damage to the credibility of the court Jordan. He's confirmed now, this latest round of attacks is sowing discord for no possible chance to heal the divide between left and right.

Wasn't "tell the truth" another of his rules? Is the timing disclaimer new? "Tell the truth, except when it would be badly timed" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

That made me wonder, how many of his rules does he actually follow?

Blogger Gregory the Great October 11, 2018 6:25 PM  

All you gotta do is clean your room cos Mommy will clean the kitchen and the toilet, Daddy will shovel the snow and mow the lawn and cut the wood....

Blogger stevo October 11, 2018 8:05 PM  

I was so into JBP that when Vox first called it I was in denial. But in my heart I knew he was right.

Blogger eclecticme October 11, 2018 8:14 PM  

I am only 10 min in but love the JBP imitations. LMAO.

Blogger John Atria October 11, 2018 9:10 PM  

What Peterson's fans don't realize either is that the more excuses and rationalizations you have to make for someone in Peterson's position, the more likely it is they're full of shit. Either their work stands on its own or it doesn't. Yes, people misspeak, get taken out of context, etc. I'm sure if you combed through every letter of this blog you could find two sentences that don't quite fit or seem contradictory to each other. But in Peterson's case his work is so vague and poorly thought out that contradiction is the rule rather than the exception. He blatantly violates his own rule of "be precise in your speech" when he goes on this rambling "thought experiment", which is really just the intellectual equivalent of saying "Its just a prank, bro!"

Blogger tublecane October 12, 2018 12:15 AM  

@24- This doesn't need to be addressed, but what presumption regarding alcohol blackouts. I have tippled to the point of vomiting, hyperventilation, wishing I were dead, and passing out (i.e. falling asleep) in dangerous places. However, NOT ONCE have I blacked out.

I can't even imagine what such an experience would feel like. To the point where I am suspicious of anyone who ever says they black out.

Blogger Damaris Tighe October 12, 2018 6:24 AM  

he really is the hamlet of the 'dark web'.

Blogger Damaris Tighe October 12, 2018 6:30 AM  

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Blogger Trebor Nosemaj October 12, 2018 10:55 AM  

tublecane - I don't believe Ford's testimony and am only an occasional drinker, but living in Ireland (thus Irish culture) for 40 years, it never ceases to amaze me how many people from all walks of life, teenagers, mothers, business owners etc. have gone out for sessions and have complete memory blackouts as to what happened for much of the evening. The state they're in is like sleepwalking where they are capable of doing complicated things in he moment,and the next day I'm left flabbergasted that they can't remember a thing. It's a real thing and sadly very common here. So common that those who experience it think it's no big deal and it's just something that happens when you go out drinking.

Blogger Trebor Nosemaj October 12, 2018 11:15 AM  

Just to clarify, it's like a "dreamstate", they're on a type of autopilot, but you have no idea of this when you're in their company until you're both conversing the next day and you find you have to tell them how their previous evening went, no matter how eventful it was or how much drama they were involved in. It's like how it's very hard to imagine sleepwalkers are able to carefully move around, make up a sandwich and converse with you logically unless you experience it.

Blogger Solon October 12, 2018 3:30 PM  

Want a personal anecdote? Let me tell you, the stories you hear of the nonsense you did of which you can't remember ANY of it is... Well, it only needs to happen once before you realize it is never fun, it's never smart, it most certainly DOES happen, and you should try never to get that far gone ever again.

My brother had to unlock the bathroom door, clean up the vomit all over myself and the toilet, and pull my pants and underwear back up, all while I was unconcscious. He and his roommates had to physically haul my unconcscious carcass to bed and leave a bucket nearby for more vomiting, and check on me every ten minutes to make sure I didn't choke to death in my sleep.

He had to take my phone and explain to my girlfriend-at-the-time that no, I would not be able to carry on the conversation, such as it was, that we were having. I say "such as it was," because in under an hour, the texts went from vaguely intelligable to "strings of letters that were so messed up, not even auto-correct could do anything with them."

Puked three more times in the morning when I woke up. We then dumped the bucket of vomit and sand in the grass out front. It was a mixture so poisonous that, to this day, almost a decade later, nothing grows there except some tortured-looking weeds. Literally salted the earth with the bile that I had in me at one point.

The last thing I remember from that evening was taking a huge bite of shitty college pizza, and then nothing. Heard the rest of it from my brother and his roommates, apart from the texts which I read. Let me tell you, those were a real hoot.

Blacking out does, indeed, happen, if you believe some random internet poster like myself.

Since then, I have never EVER drank so much as to black out. Was a good learning experience. Glad I survived it, ya know, what doesn't kill you and all that.

Blogger song song October 13, 2018 12:18 AM  

Thanks for some other magnificent post. Where else could anyone get that type of information in such an ideal means of writing? I have a presentation subsequent week, and I am at the look for such information.

Blogger Helldoge Desotryer October 15, 2018 6:56 AM  

I am irritated with myself for having listened to JBP

Blogger Eric Johnson October 15, 2018 1:41 PM  

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