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Thursday, October 11, 2018

Interview with Bleeding Cool

Over the last few weeks, I was interviewed extensively by Mark Siefert and Rich Johnston of Bleeding Cool, the comics media site. It is quite literally the longest, most thorough interview I have ever read, much less participated in on either side. Bleeding Cool posted the entire interview almost entirely verbatim, including the follow-up questions and answers. It is precisely 767 percent more honest and fair than the NPR hit piece was, and demonstrates rather clearly how the Internet media puts the mainstream media to journalistic shame.

This doesn't mean either Siefert or Johnston agree with me at all about anything. They very clearly don't, for the most part. But they recognize that Arkhaven and Dark Legion have successfully established themselves in the comics space and that it makes no sense to simply pretend that we don't exist. Beyond that, they observably understand that the customary SJW response is not only ineffectual, but serves to add considerable fuel to the fire that motivates us and our supporters.

In some ways it's a debate as well as an interview; while I could offer a few objections to some of his corrections to my answers, there is little point in going down those rabbit holes. For example, I don't view Marvel's denial of its director of content and character development Sana Amanat's connection to the Clinton Foundation to be conclusive or convincing given the direct relationships between the foundation, her cousin, and her two brothers. But given the in-depth investigation they clearly did into my family and heritage - which was very interesting as I previously knew nothing about my historically significant Irish ancestor - they doubtless have the ability to dig considerably deeper into that situation if they wish to do so.

But it is a fair, detailed, and extremely informative interview, which I suspect a number of people on both sides of the ideological spectrum will enjoy reading. I expect a fair number of SJWs will be outraged by the fact that Bleeding Cool acknowledged my existence at all, and when they did, failed to devote the entire interview to angrily denouncing NAZICOMICSHATE, but then, birds will fly and fish will swim too.
We no longer live in a world where we can mutually pretend that our comics don’t contain politics so we don’t have to argue about it. Politics covers everything like a rash you want to scratch even though you know that’ll make it worse. Comics are no longer a brotherhood beyond politics, and fandom is no longer sacred ground.

Vox Day has played a role in creating that world, in my opinion (which he disputes to a substantial degree in the interview below, for the record), and has also published books that I dislike, and things that are intentionally antagonistic. On the book and comics publishing front, that doesn’t bother me, at all. Have at it. It is a legitimate function of art to be disagreeable, to inspire dislike and even anger.

Because comics can in fact be dangerous, very many publishers in our history have faced struggles for distribution and placement on newstands or in stores. Day has stated that he’s had some inexplicable issues with selling his comics on Amazon. If that’s true, it’s wrong. Any distributor or retailer can refuse to carry a comic for any reason (a concept that I am personally very familiar with), and that’s perfectly fine too. But if there’s any third party or rogue employee interfering with Castalia House books or comics from being sold at Amazon when those comics are salable according to standard policies, not only are you in the wrong, but you’re also helping Vox Day, not hurting him. You’re giving him and his followers something to fight.

You won’t convince anyone that Vox Day’s politics and opinions are wrong by restricting his followers’ ability to buy his comics. Quite to the contrary. Attempting to win by restricting the publication of information (note that this is a different thing than controlling the flow of information that you yourself consume) does not put one in particularly enviable company. That’s not how to win any modern conflict, let alone a conflict based on information… which is all of them now.

I’d much rather be reading the There Will Be War series than discussing Vox Day’s politics. Or writing that post about Luis Senarens that I mentioned earlier. But politics are the core of who Vox Day is and what he talks about — for the moment — so let’s go....

Bleeding Cool: I want to start off with something that’s come up in connection to Comicsgate and events that have spun out of your disagreements with Ethan Van Sciver. Comicsgaters often say they want politics out of comics. At its core, the idea that people want comics to be escapist entertainment certainly isn’t objectionable. But you recently noted:

“Second, comics have always had political and ideological elements to them; the core problem with what the SJWs are doing in comics is less about how they are inserting their lunatic politics into the comics and more about the way in which they are ideologically policing who is permitted to produce and publish comics at Marvel, DC, Image, IDW, and other comics publishers.”

Is it possible to create superhero comics without political elements? Is “with great power comes great responsibility” a political statement?

Vox Day: Yes, it is possible to create superhero comics without political elements, but one will end up with a limited range of stories that are intrinsically unrealistic. After all, there is no way that the governments and militaries of the world would simply ignore the increased power that superheroes could offer them. “With great power comes great responsibility” is not a political statement, it is a moral statement. And it is not possible to create superhero comics without moral elements.
Read the whole novella-sized article, entitled Vox Day: Altered States of America, there.

Also, speaking of Arkhaven Comics and Chuck Dixon, I'm happy to report that CHUCK DIXON'S AVALON #2: RULEBREAKER, is now available in a gold logo edition from Arkhaven Direct, this time complete with dialogue. We're working on getting replacement issues out to those who received what we shall euphemistically describe as "silent collector's editions".


UPDATE: The initial response on Twitter is, of course, entirely surprising to absolutely no one.
Smack Talk Showdown@SmackTalkShwdwn
This is disgusting. Why give this hate monger a platform?

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147 Comments:

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira October 11, 2018 6:15 AM  

"Because comics can in fact be dangerous"

Sick and tired of hearing about how everything is so "dangerous". It's a comic book, not a loaded gun inside of a burning house.

Blogger RobertDWood October 11, 2018 6:28 AM  

It's the Milo effect

Blogger Tee Stoney October 11, 2018 6:34 AM  

Wow, real comics/fandom journalism. Not corporate sales glossies or SJW rant pieces. Bleeding Cool is not just that, it's important.

Blogger OGRE October 11, 2018 6:40 AM  

Got to the part about your ancestor. McDowell is much more likely a scotch-irish or scottish then an irish surname, and a quick search confirms the same. James grandfather John was born in Edinburgh and emigrated to northern Ireland, as did many scots from the lowlands due to the plantation of Ulster. This large migration gave rise to the scotch-irish (or ulster-scot) ethnic group which is very distinct from those of irish heritage. McDowell is likely descended from Clan MacDowall of Galloway, Scotland.

http://www.gunboatempires.com/genealogy/des_of_CaptJasMcD.htm

(I am descended on my mother's side from McCormicks with a similar history, so the McDowell surname readily suggested scotch-irish rather than irish to me.)

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 11, 2018 6:51 AM  

Okay, I have to say, I'm impressed.

I'd long dismissed Bleeding Cool, as a fanboi site that was going to do nothing but fellate the SJWs that are running comics into the ground.

Happy to be proved wrong.

Blogger Silly but True October 11, 2018 7:07 AM  

35 years ago a dangerous comic opened up its cover and stuck its splash page into my face.

I personally witnessed Marvel and DC soliciting. They ran monthly train rape gangs.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore October 11, 2018 7:15 AM  

Yesterday Avalon #2 came in the mail. After I opening the box I celebrated. I got the "silent edition". This is going straight into the plastic! Something told me order two. Shoulda listened to that "something". At any rate, I cannot wait to get the corrected edition. Avalon #1 was fantastic and, based on that, I know that #2 is gonna be great.

Blogger Desdichado October 11, 2018 7:24 AM  

OGRE wrote:(I am descended on my mother's side from McCormicks with a similar history, so the McDowell surname readily suggested scotch-irish rather than irish to me.)
Benjamin Franklin said of the Scots-Irish that they were "a race of runagates and crackers, equally wild and savage as the Indians." Although obviously meant as an insult, if you are one of us, you probably can't imagine how it is one.

Still; odd, isn't it, that they would go to that much trouble to do research on someone that they're interviewing?

Blogger SmockMan October 11, 2018 7:30 AM  

Good interview. Surprising.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 7:33 AM  

Still; odd, isn't it, that they would go to that much trouble to do research on someone that they're interviewing?

I don't think so. They consciously decided to violate the operative Narrative. Therefore, they needed to collect a vast amount of information to justify the violation. As it is, they'll get pushback, but they've clearly demonstrated that they've got vastly more ammunition than those who preferred the previous narrative.

These guys are much smarter than the mainstream journalists or the garden-variety SJW.

Blogger Avalanche October 11, 2018 7:37 AM  

Bleeding Cool: If you tell any person of any culture anywhere a story of your heritage, such as Vox's example that ranges from the original Minutemen to Minuteman Missiles, and then add, "and I'm really proud of that and interested in preserving that history, and concerned about how that way of life fits into the future", you will not be called a Nazi or a White Supremacist, but will instead be encouraged and respected. The more common response will be along the lines of "WOW. That's. Fucking. Amazing. Tell me more."

Enjoying BC's article so far, haven't reached the actual interview yet -- but this made me wonder if he's as naive as he seems; after he provided an interesting glimpse into his knowledge and apparent thoughtfulness?

Yes OF COURSE if someone proud of his White / American / European (or his "not quite visible" but oft expressed Mexican / Indian) heritage tells that tale of that "heritage," he will be called nazi and evil slave-holder and woman-oppressor! And then they'll try to find the statue(s) of your forebear(s) to tear it down and piss on!

"Preserving that heritage" becomes 'Nazi's and tiki torches!"

I'll keep reading, but is he really so unaware of what the LEFT is doing to our heritage and, by preference, to us? The statues are just proxies. So far. Is his history education, of which he is justly proud, really so incomplete or 'mainstream' propagandized?

Blogger Avalanche October 11, 2018 7:39 AM  

{sigh} Bleeding Cool: no person of any culture will disrespect you for expressing that heritage

Really? REALLY? Does he not watch the news?!

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 7:43 AM  

Avalanche, read the whole thing before commenting on it. ALWAYS read the whole thing first, because the questions that you pose along the way are usually answered one way or another.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 11, 2018 7:46 AM  

"Truth, Justice and the American Way" is a political statement.

if you doubt this, simply ask yourself how "Truth, Justice and the Soviet Way" ( or the National Socialist ) parses.

and, of course, writers like Alan Moore have always had an overt political bent to their work. if you didn't think there were any politics in Watchmen, you're a fricking moron.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 7:50 AM  

Reader comments started to roll in at Bleeding Cool about 4 hours ago. The ratio of butthurt to confused is about what you might expect.

That interview was quite the tour de force. Still digesting...

Blogger Silent Draco October 11, 2018 7:57 AM  

Very interesting interview. I will give BIC a C for the follow-on research. Boyd is one example; he was a proponent and instrumental in the F-16 making it off the design board and into the skies. The F-15 was simply another overloaded all-purpose aircraft, not the dogfighter that the fighter community needed. One of the reasons he got farmed out to DOT&E for a DoD or joint assignment, and out of the Air Force. He committed an internal sin and was cast out by the resentful clerks. This becomes obvious from reading several chapters of "The Pentagon Paradox" and not simply skimming through web searches.

Still, they made an honest effort, but perhaps should emphasize better that the bracketed material is their second round of questions or discussion.

Blogger JACIII October 11, 2018 8:01 AM  

I am reading it. The sniping is tedious.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 11, 2018 8:08 AM  

"Have at it. It is a legitimate function of art to be disagreeable, to inspire dislike and even anger."

Pushing the free speech category there, feels like.

"Readers on the right are going to think it supports him and Alt Right philosophy."

Less supports and more "Is elemental of".

"Comics are very dangerous indeed, which is why fandom should always be sacred ground, no matter what kind of comics you want to read or create."

Deus vult, MFer. Some terms are as much about rhetorical effect as they are about friend-or-foe delineation.

"But given the in-depth investigation they clearly did"

There's the difference between blowing someone off as an idiot and saying "Hmmn, this person actually brought something like a gun to the gunfight. Let's find out if it's a good one."

"The data does support the notion that Marvel and DC are run or influenced in large measure by individuals who are directly associated with President Trump."

This after he points out that it's curious how Ike doesn't appear to actually be controlling anything for Marvel currently....

Looks like he's got the collusion fever.

"That is… the mother of all hand waving."

Oh come now. It's a hand wave for the obvious that you can have war without migration, not vice versa....

"Unless you’d prefer I believe his anecdotal observations of the way the children of immigrants integrate peacefully"

When giants move men bleed. Men don't like bleeding. Men will bleed regardless.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 11, 2018 8:09 AM  

"Diversity does lead to exposure to different ideas, which can certainly lead to a clash of those ideas ."

It results in interface/surface strength of individual elements, not internal strength between those elements. Clash is literally conflict.

Molehill out of a mountain.

"The trick part is the Manufacturing Clause. This clause made the US the global center of popular culture. Understanding this is an important part of understanding how and why diversity works in the US."

No, it's an important part of understanding how said diversity was controlled and regulated, not how it was beneficial. This is like saying that a support in an unstable mine is an important part of understanding how the natural structure of the mine is strong... it actually indicates exactly the opposite.

Well, it's pretty obvious why the interview is so long now. More than half of it is his external monologue/refutation-attempts against your statements.

"Superhero comic book fans thoroughly, deeply understand the concept of mercy."

Mercy is the prerogative of the strong. Assuming you're strong when you're not is vainglorious, thus mercy from the ultimately weak is both unnatural and foolish. Any natural or sane mercy is rooted in confidence of ultimate victory. This is an inherently supernatural religious perspective at many scales.

Superheroes are weak ersatz-gods at their best. Superhero comic readers have no significant concept of mercy compared to real Bible reading Christians.

"And that everyone across the spectrum should remember that power/responsibility thing."

It's a cart-before-horse statement. We want people with power to behave responsibly, but power does not create responsibility. The opposite is true in multiple ways. Power breaks inadequate responsibility, and responsibility is actually what creates power, always. "If you are faithful in the small things"....

"So your next move is to… keep breaking it?"

Old things die. This is the nature of entropy, the longer they linger the more deeply they rot. Surely Shintoism is largely cognizant of at least this theme. Old things must die so that new things can be born. The body that is the USA is dead and rotting, better than it burn now than linger and fester.

"it’s damn near the difference between war = migration and civilization = migration."

It's the difference between "what has happened has inevitably happened" and "what is happening is bad because we can see it was bad before". His statement is the equivalent of "we're alive so it must have been good." Vainglorious at best.

"There is more than a little irony in Vox Day drawing this comparison to explain his outlook, as Top Ten is in a real sense about society dealing with not only diversity, but hyperdiversity."

...Which is described as complete darkness only just beginning to break to light. Irony? Ha.

...I suppose this is what happens when I don't go running in the morning. Running commentary....

Blogger CoolHand October 11, 2018 8:13 AM  

Just finished it.

Their repeated attempts to imply that Marvel is a mouthpiece for Trump is bizarre, as is their insistence that none of the main-line supers have taken on an SJW bent in recent years.

It's as though they live in an alternate reality, totally disconnected from this one.

This dissonance is jarring considering how in-depth and thoughtful many other parts of the piece are.

It's like they're so close to this thing that they've lost the ability to even see it clearly anymore.

Very odd.

Their reaction to the calls for their disemployment by the ensuing SJW mob will be most amusing to watch.

From a safe distance anyway.

Blogger JACIII October 11, 2018 8:20 AM  

And anyway, if you’d bought more of that 18-button mouse (pdf), Hillary Clinton would be President.

That's funny I don't care who you are.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 11, 2018 8:24 AM  

It's also funny when they handwave "oh there's always been division among fans about new heroes" when the reality the division is most of the fanbase against the converged publishers about aborting old heroes on their Molochian alter.

Blogger Johnny October 11, 2018 8:34 AM  

>>But they recognize that Arkhaven and Dark Legion have successfully established themselves in the comics space...

I've been thinking that sooner or later the empire would strike back, and wondering if they have recourse.

When ordinary is under attack by unlikely, ordinary becomes political. Thus for a story to be non political it has to be about things nobody cares about.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 11, 2018 8:34 AM  

"Why give this hate monger a platform?"

Same thing they were all yelling at USA Today yesterday for running an op-ed by the president. You're in good company.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 11, 2018 8:41 AM  

"The data does support the notion"

No true statement has ever begun with those words. Sounds like a quote from James Taggart. Their real meaning is, "I will now speak from The Narrative."

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 11, 2018 8:44 AM  

You gents are a charitable lot. The author is a white clown who lives in the country and pretends to love "Diversity", worship it even like a talisman for lost puppy people.

The Left to operate must rigidly segregate its cults so as they don't find out they really, really despise one another more than they despise the "common enemy." And I'm sure the author of that interview has heard that phrase "common enemy" enough.

Blogger Alex October 11, 2018 8:50 AM  

This was a really good interview, but this popped up a whole lot easier than I expected:

“As an aside: OMG who wants to live in a world without food from other cultures?”

Because apparently it’s impossible to cook food from another country without inviting half the country in question in...

Blogger Desdichado October 11, 2018 8:53 AM  

VD wrote:
These guys are much smarter than the mainstream journalists or the garden-variety SJW.

Yes, they are. And even bringing up "surprise; this guy is your ancestor!" stuff is extremely unusual. I can see strategically why they would do that much research; also because they wanted to be able to create all their notes and caveat with which they peppered the interview after the fact, which mitigates their "defying the Narrative" pose considerably. But I can't remember ever seeing an interview with anyone about anything from anyone that was so incredibly prepared with unexpected details. That's fantastically unusual. It really sets a new benchmark, in many ways.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel October 11, 2018 8:57 AM  

Significant Irish ancestor? Can I expect you at the next family gathering, Vox?

Blogger dtungsten October 11, 2018 9:00 AM  

I got a kick out of how most of the comments were about how the article was too long and they didn't intend to read it. Yet they still attempted to profess some knowledge about the subject.

I think the phrase, "these people are stupid," applies.

Blogger dtungsten October 11, 2018 9:05 AM  

@Alex And even if it weren't, the taste of exotic food is not worth the price of foreign invasion.

Blogger Salt October 11, 2018 9:11 AM  

President Trump won the election with the Alt-Right’s help, and you were part of that.

Since BC wants to credit you some for Trump, I guess a thank you is in order.

Blogger Gettimothy October 11, 2018 9:19 AM  

Has a comic/sci-fi series ever been done where the present characters discover resolve , and then (surprise) realize they have completed a superhero plan laid down from the time of Noah?


That would be o e heck of a read

Blogger Gettimothy October 11, 2018 9:23 AM  

I look forward to your darkstream version of Address to a Haggis

Blogger Alex October 11, 2018 9:29 AM  

@dtungsten Nope!

And I meant to write “earlier,” not “easier” in my original comment.

Blogger doctrev October 11, 2018 9:49 AM  

Desdichado wrote:

Yes, they are. And even bringing up "surprise; this guy is your ancestor!" stuff is extremely unusual. I can see strategically why they would do that much research; also because they wanted to be able to create all their notes and caveat with which they peppered the interview after the fact, which mitigates their "defying the Narrative" pose considerably. But I can't remember ever seeing an interview with anyone about anything from anyone that was so incredibly prepared with unexpected details. That's fantastically unusual. It really sets a new benchmark, in many ways.


I'm actually not that surprised. Dan Burros had a movie made about his struggle with heritage, and it was definitely worth attention. The fact Vox supports the American Indian Movement came as a much larger surprise to me, as he has never mentioned them on the blog- as far as I can see. Despite being a logical response to his Native heritage, I've never thought their goals to even be compatible with living alongside the United States.

At any rate, Bleeding Cool's attempts to interject into the debate are often tedious when they're not entirely wrong, such as claiming VD did not previously speak about Brexit before 2017 or that Huma Abedin's cousin (Sana Amanat) has no connection to the Clinton Foundation. Yet the interview was fair, interesting, and brought up details that surprised Vox himself. Well worth reading.

Blogger Daniel October 11, 2018 9:58 AM  

Siefert and Johnston certainly invented a very novel way to lose the interview. I wonder if that was puposeful. Their unanswerable hamhanded, midwit-style retorts and insertions superficially mar, and stand in stark contrast to, an otherwise ideal interview. Is that just cover against their own mob of SJWs?

Blogger Ledford Ledford October 11, 2018 10:04 AM  

Congratulations, Mr. Day. You've jumped into unfamiliar territory, raised an army from nothing, and set about seizing ground and creating panic in the enemy.

Most impressive. Just don't get drawn into a set piece battle, no matter how noble the banners of the foe.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 10:09 AM  

"And anyway, if you’d bought more of that 18-button mouse (pdf), Hillary Clinton would be President."

if you didn't throw your head back and cackle with glee at this statement... you're dead inside.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 10:13 AM  

The fact Vox supports the American Indian Movement came as a much larger surprise to me.

AIM is considerably more familiar to anyone who lived in Minnesota or the Dakotas in the late 1970s and early 1980s than you might think. The Leonard Peltier case was a very big deal at the time.

Blogger doctrev October 11, 2018 10:18 AM  

VD wrote:
AIM is considerably more familiar to anyone who lived in Minnesota in the 1980s than you probably suppose. The Leonard Peltier case was a very big deal at the time.


Even I'm familiar with them, but that had more to do with reading Rage Against the Machine album liners. They were portrayed as a criminal extremist movement in a Tom Clancy novel, but that's the furthest I've been aware of their influence outside hard-left circles such as RATM.

What did white Minnesotans around you think of the Peltier case? Many red nationalists support Peltier, in my experience, but if you want to answer I'd like your opinion too.

Blogger Peaceful Poster October 11, 2018 10:19 AM  

Although the interviewer talked far more than the interviewee, it was still well worth the read.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 10:44 AM  

Ok... finished it finally. God Help me... I thought it ended to abruptly and wasn't nearly long enough.

Blogger Desdichado October 11, 2018 10:55 AM  

doctrev wrote:At any rate, Bleeding Cool's attempts to interject into the debate are often tedious when they're not entirely wrong, such as claiming VD did not previously speak about Brexit before 2017 or that Huma Abedin's cousin (Sana Amanat) has no connection to the Clinton Foundation. Yet the interview was fair, interesting, and brought up details that surprised Vox himself. Well worth reading.
But people can be wrong, at least for a time. The amazing thing about it is that it was a great example of what conservatives always believe discussions with liberals are like, but which they actually almost never are. I certainly wish the liberals of my acquaintance were as reasonable to talk to. If they were, I would probably have remained much better friends with them as opposed to gradually cutting most of them out of my social circles in the last couple of years or so.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 11:20 AM  

After the long intro and the sly excursis through the lost annals of Vox Americana, I defaulted to reading Vox's answers first, Seifert's questions second.

That aside, the interview is definitely worth the time, even if it is excessively annotated in a your-not-the-only-strategic-genius-in-the-game-Vox-Day kind of way.



Blogger Patrick Kelly October 11, 2018 11:24 AM  

This is my favorite answer from Vox:

"VD: To the contrary, SJWs are my first and foremost problem. Ike Perlmutter didn’t try to expel me from SFWA, ban me from Twitter, and attempt to disemploy me. Robert Mercer isn’t leaving fake reviews on Amazon or maliciously interfering with Dark Legion’s titles there. I disagree with the notion that I’ve empowered either of those men, nor do I think elderly billionaires are in need of any empowerment from me. My followers can think what they like, except, of course, for the Vile Faceless Minions who are sworn to mindless obedience."

The interviewer liked to go off on "gotcha" tangents dealing with minutia and other details to quibble about and miss the bigger pictures. His repeated attempts at trying make a big deal about Trump and who supported him was annoying, and this answer made a few lights go on in his otherwise mono-manic obsessed mind.

I do agree he was much more thorough, honest and fair than others have been. It's awesome he included links for readers to follow and find your blog and products for sale. Kudos for that.

Blogger RobertT October 11, 2018 11:27 AM  

I can't think of anyone on the right with the influence VD is gathering. Buckley was
pet of the left who was tolerated as long as he didn't knock over his dinner dish, and he made sure not to. There were some who muttered stuff in a small closet to a small group, but none with the reach VD is amassing.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel October 11, 2018 11:38 AM  

I’m more shocked that an avid comics fan seems so well-read. Looking at these Comicagaters I was certain they were all mentally retarded.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 11, 2018 11:39 AM  

"While I was researching this piece, I noticed that Vox Day has published a several-volume series of military science fiction which I’ve just started reading."


"I haven’t read any of the comics Vox Day has published, but I like knowing that Chuck Dixon has work out there from a variety of publishers which includes Day’s Castalia House comics imprint Arkhaven Comics, as well as DC Comics, IDW, and others. He’s an important creator. I’ve read and enjoyed a lot of his work, without thinking much about his politics."

Quoting a humanizing blog post too? Sure, they did some typical hostile stuff but the McDowell part is one of the nicest things in an introduction I've ever seen anyone give anyone. This does seem to hurt your claim of not being a real American, you're posterity.

It's also interesting that some of the things I thought were going to be typical one shot leftist barbs actually were balanced out. They decided to admit you're intelligent, you're allowed to be descended from intelligent people.

The story keeps going off the rails when things like statues of founders (Canada is worse for this) and quoting Churchill don't fit in with their theory that history will be respected.

The ratio of interviewer to interviewee is interesting. I like that style of interview over the typical leftist interview, so I can't really complain. He was open about putting in a lot of work and I'd rather read the full interview with him adding lots of notes than using part of a paragraph out of the whole interview and trying to get some smear to stick.

Blogger The Greay Man October 11, 2018 11:43 AM  

Utterly fascinating.

I think I learned more about the author than about you, Vox.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 11:46 AM  

Bleeding Cool's attempts to interject into the debate are often tedious when they're not entirely wrong, such as claiming VD did not previously speak about Brexit before 2017.

After I sent him links dating back to 2014 which referred implicitly or explicitly to my expectations that Britain would be the first nation leave the EU as it collapsed, he graciously agreed to amend that particular statement.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 11:47 AM  

This does seem to hurt your claim of not being a real American, you're posterity.

No, because we've always known that. My English ancestors also fought in the Revolutionary War.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 11:49 AM  

@50: Yup. Mr. Seifert and his weltenschaung are now intelligible to us.

Like my heritage American ancestors learned the hard way: When the enemy is in range, so are we.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:05 PM  

Peaceful Poster wrote:Although the interviewer talked far more than the interviewee, it was still well worth the read.



Yes. I do regret that it turned out that way. I do think part of it was that I was speaking Comics History and other Industry-specific language that Vox may have preferred to listen to rather than respond to at this point. Perfectly good if so.

Their unanswerable hamhanded, midwit-style retorts

Yep. The process went on forever as it was, and I just wanted to get it out there at this point, but I agree it would have been preferable to allow pre-publication response to it. Vox sent me an update on the Brexit issue which I'll get in there shortly.

But yes. I am a midwestern hick.

Is that just cover against their own mob of SJWs?

Getting a little fuss about it, but it won't last long. Comics people know that we do this. We ran an article called "EVS is not a Nazi" last year, even though I knew people would fuss about it, and even though I also knew that Ethan would continue being Ethan. That's all fine. He's other things, but not a Nazi.

Congratulations, Mr. Day. You've jumped into unfamiliar territory, raised an army from nothing, and set about seizing ground and creating panic in the enemy.

No. I will argue with Vox Day about ideas All. Day. Long. Happy to compete on ideas, and happy to amend opinion based on new info.

I am the co-founder of a publisher that does a comic called Uber about evil nazi superhumans destroying Europe and attacking America (of course, we're not to the end yet). And a comic called Crossed about the most vile form of zombies you can possibly imagine. And a comic called Neonomicon that is Alan Moore doing HPL and nobody telling him what he can and can't have in there.

Lots of people hate our comics. We've had plenty of distribution problems. Nobody calls me a Nazi. And I also run the leftiest website in our space. I like disruption, but view it in a different way than you do.


Since BC wants to credit you some for Trump, I guess a thank you is in order.

I found the response to this line of questioning pretty interesting. As I judge Vox as not a liar, but still stand by the analysis, there are interesting conclusions to be drawn from it. I will think about it more.

Because apparently it’s impossible to cook food from another country without inviting half the country in question in...

Yes, but once you do that... well, I'll leave you to think about it. It may be possible to construct a good answer to my silly comment, but this is not it.

The Left to operate must rigidly segregate its cults so as they don't find out they really, really despise one another more than they despise the "common enemy." And I'm sure the author of that interview has heard that phrase "common enemy" enough.

Comics tribes are based 100% on allegiance to a publisher or particular creators or titles. THAT is why comics people freak out about political ideas they don't understand. Yes, that IS fear of the unknown. They've simply thought about it much less. This does lead to groupthink. It's a hardly a problem that can't be solved.







Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:07 PM  

No true statement has ever begun with those words. Sounds like a quote from James Taggart. Their real meaning is, "I will now speak from The Narrative.

I showed my work. (and Vox surmises correctly on the Amanat matter, btw. I assessed the matter before we asked, and hate liars as much as he does, and would not have let a lie stand on it.).

If you disagree and can show me why, you could convince me.

Their repeated attempts to imply that Marvel is a mouthpiece for Trump is bizarre, as is their insistence that none of the main-line supers have taken on an SJW bent in recent years.

All I'm saying is this: Marvel is run by a close Trump associate who runs the company with an iron hand. That is fact. As Vox told you recently, Ike is also quite ruthlessly devoted to the bottom line, above other considerations. If he wanted to course correct, a snap of the fingers gets it done.

This after he points out that it's curious how Ike doesn't appear to actually be controlling anything for Marvel currently....

I did no such thing, and in fact you are incorrect. Why did you just lie about it? If you don't think Marvel's EiC bends to Ike's will, you are mistaken.

Boyd is one example; he was a proponent and instrumental in the F-16 making it off the design board and into the skies. The F-15 was simply another overloaded all-purpose aircraft,

This is incorrect. Boyd jumped in on the F-15 and saved it. He was involved. That was the start of it. There are youtube videos of Boyd himself explaining this.

McDowell is likely descended from Clan MacDowall of Galloway, Scotland.

I actually... believe it or not... ended up cutting a bunch of what I dug up about the McDowell family.

There's a branch of Clan McDowell who were founders in my local area. As I was reading this, I realized we had a bunch of local place / institution names that reference it, that I had no idea of growing up.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:11 PM  

Mark Seifert

Good show mate. While I bust Vox's balls more than most around here... I'm still VFM 001. So I do suppose I must congratulate you on what I deem a fantastic interview. As I said up the way a bit... I wish it were far longer.

Blogger Blaidd October 11, 2018 12:12 PM  

The repeated implication that CEOs and Presidents of parent companies of comic imprints are making conscious decisions about Unbeatable Squirrel Grrrl and G.astro I.ntestinal Jane were grating, particularly in light of the fact that VD has explained the nature of SJW converged institutions in fine detail.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:13 PM  

Also... Mark Seifert... I fear there is an important matter we have to get to before we go much further commenting together.

Do you like Glocks? Also... how do you feel about Kimber? Additionally... have you spent any time in a Turkish Prison?

Blogger Patrick Kelly October 11, 2018 12:18 PM  

Welcome Mr. Seifert.

Best interview of Vox ever.

Tell Nate you have pink Glock in .380 and drink Laphroag Scotch while smoking Macanudo's and you're in good here.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:18 PM  

Longtime Lurker wrote:@50: Yup. Mr. Seifert and his weltenschaung are now intelligible to us.

Like my heritage American ancestors learned the hard way: When the enemy is in range, so are we.


No one here is my enemy, unless you're a liar, or happen to run a major corporation and also be an asshole.

Our fights are not utterly different, we just view it differently.

The stuff about Vox's ancestry was not intended to be a gotcha. I legit think it makes some of his arguments much more powerful, and largely, was surprised it doesn't come up because of that.

I WOULD NOT use family to disparage someone. I dumped a bunch of positive stuff about his father out there where people will find it when they do the diligence from now on, because coming at someone via family is some bullshit. That's not the way I want to win a fight.

Blogger Patrick Kelly October 11, 2018 12:21 PM  

Yes, the treatment of Vox's family matters was very appropriate, fair and accurate. If not I don't think Vox would have finished the interview, and the VFM would be busy.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:21 PM  

Tucker ends his shows by asserting that his show is the Sworn Enemy of Lying, Pomposity, Smugness, and Groupthink.


That is as good a description of what we call SJWs as one is likely to find these days.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:25 PM  

Blaidd wrote:The repeated implication that CEOs and Presidents of parent companies of comic imprints are making conscious decisions about Unbeatable Squirrel Grrrl and G.astro I.ntestinal Jane were grating, particularly in light of the fact that VD has explained the nature of SJW converged institutions in fine detail.

Dude.

This is a man who attends major movie premieres IN A DISGUISE so that he can keep tabs on stuff without being seen.

This is a man who has engaged in an expensive, multi-year, brutally nasty and personal battle with another party over the disposition of his local tennis club.

He has made Marvel employees retrieve paper clips from the trash to be re-used.

I could go on, and on, and on.

He is that guy.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:26 PM  

Patrick Kelly wrote:Welcome Mr. Seifert.

Best interview of Vox ever.

Tell Nate you have pink Glock in .380 and drink Laphroag Scotch while smoking Macanudo's and you're in good here.



HA.

Ok, yeah, thanks. I was... uh, wondering about that.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:27 PM  

"He is that guy."

IS?

or was?

Also... how much of Marvel's revenue comes from comics now... versus… other sources... like movies and toys based on those movies?

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 12:29 PM  

This article is stupidly long and incredibly strange. He asks you a question and then dedicates a few paragraphs to 'proving you wrong' about whatever your answer might be.
It reads more like a YT rebuttal video than an interview. While that works with a video format, it just does not work as an interview format.
Like our good friend Peterson, he cannot stick to one definition of a word. When you point racial diversity, he responds with ideological diversity while pretending you were referring to the same thing.

Blogger Patrick Kelly October 11, 2018 12:29 PM  

Maybe he really does think pandering to the alphabet people is good for the bottom line.

We'll see.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:29 PM  

"Ok, yeah, thanks. I was... uh, wondering about that."

you called yourself a midwestern hick. A certain amount of ballbusting is therefore called for... otherwise you'd think we were a bunch of coastal Nancy boys.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:32 PM  

"This article is stupidly long and incredibly strange."

This says a great deal more about you than the interviewer.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 12:35 PM  

If he wanted to course correct, a snap of the fingers gets it done.

Interesting. Things could get a lot more exciting in this space faster than I'd imagined, if that's correct. I'm a little surprised Disney isn't exercising more control, but then, they're probably occupied with demolishing the Star Wars brand.

Blogger gnossoss October 11, 2018 12:35 PM  

I think anyone who's had a boss like that knows that they're often extremely inconsistent, worrying about paper clips one day and then ignoring huge problems for months. Micro-managers are often capricious about how much attention they pay to things.

So he's extremely involved, except that he leaves people in charge for years when they consistently oversee huge drops in comics sales while the movies are doing gangbusters in theaters. That seems unlikely.

And of course it's irrelevant anyway. If he just wants money he could still allow the pushing of leftist propaganda if he thinks it would sell. Having a Trump friend running a company doesn't mean anything. The people who are in charge day-to-day are all screaming leftists regardless.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 12:38 PM  

@60: What you did to Vox was to reconstruct the ancestral aspects of his identity to his face. I will not/cannot speak for Vox, but if you were to pull that shit with my ancestral history, you'd remember the rhetorical encounter for a longtime.

But you didn't in my case, so no personal badfeelz. Fair Warning: There's lots of us heritage Americans lurking about this blog. We don't all draw the same lessons from our ancestral histories or hold identical political views. But we do share a much deeper understanding of this country and its various stress points than than the average citizen.

You could learn a lot from us, Midlander. If you can stomach the red pill.

Blogger Janus October 11, 2018 12:43 PM  

I agree with Nate, I too found the end abrupt and wanted it to be longer.

So, that in mind, Mr. Seifert, interview #2 when?

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 12:44 PM  

What you did to Vox was to reconstruct the ancestral aspects of his identity to his face.

I had no problem with that. I'm quite pleased to learn I had another interesting ancestor. I mean, compare this interview with the ridiculous NPR one, where Amanda Robb distilled THREE FREAKING HOURS with me down to five trivial and irrelevant sentences.

I received four interview requests yesterday. If they were all like Bleeding Cool's, I might do more. As it stands, I won't do any of them.

Blogger VD October 11, 2018 12:45 PM  

Mr. Seifert, interview #2 when?

My guess would be when the movie hits actual production....

Blogger Blaidd October 11, 2018 12:46 PM  

Mark Seifert wrote:He has made Marvel employees retrieve paper clips from the trash to be re-used

Marvel Entertainment is not Marvel Comics and Ike isn't even CEO of Marvel Entertainment anymore. Maybe he is still leaning on the CEO of Marvel to pinch pennies but Marvel Comics isn't the money maker for Marvel anymore. The idea that Ike has the inclination much less the ability to review the contents of the latest Ms. Marvel issue or decide that Falcon is now Captain America because Cap is a HYDRA agent is ridiculous.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 12:47 PM  

@74: Cool. Which leads me to wonder if Mr. Seifert might not be working on commission for Ancestry.com. . .

Blogger lowercaseb October 11, 2018 12:51 PM  

Nate wrote:otherwise you'd think we were a bunch of coastal Nancy boys.

HEY! The proper term is "pantywaist" Southron!

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:51 PM  

Nate wrote:Tucker ends his shows by asserting that his show is the Sworn Enemy of Lying, Pomposity, Smugness, and Groupthink.

That is as good a description of what we call SJWs as one is likely to find these days.




Here's the thing about this... Vox's definition of it in SJWs Always Lie is more or less that, plus some additional left-specific elements.

But but but... it's the ones that you and Tucker mention that give it force. Without those core elements, it goes nowhere.

And I hope you'd agree that lying, pomposity, smugness, groupthink are not confined to the left? And think you've seen a prominent example of that recently in fact?

We do our diligence on BC, believe it or don't, and I hope to start to convince you. As bad as you think things are... it could be much much much worse. I shoot down stories that I don't find credible on a daily basis. I teach my people to ask questions and check things out.

I assess rumors for a living. People bring us many stories. I have direct knowledge of things that have been attempted at major companies that would make the things that many of you actually do believe (but I know to be untrue) look like choir practice. I don't let it stand. BC is the only rogue nuclear power in its space (and that's not trained on you). That keeps dialogs open.

You've got enemies, but mostly, they're not the ones you think they are. I'm sure you don't believe that, and that's fine. Keeping the dialog open is what matters.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 12:54 PM  

its bizarre to me that commenters here are attempting to attack Mark.. particularly when the guy just did more to reform the historical record of Vox's dad than anyone else has... ever.

Blogger Looking Glass October 11, 2018 12:55 PM  

While I agree with Nate that this is the best interview of Vox I've seen, I still feel like it was a lot of missed opportunities. The core aspects that Arkhaven is bringing is a massive structural distribution changes. We went over a lot of this when the entire project started, but the basic "Comics Model" died a long time ago. Probably by 1975. That's why they keep running from gimmick to gimmick and it's almost wholly about maintaining the IP Rights at this point.

I think that's part of the disconnect with Ike Perlmutter. (I didn't realize he'd finally shown his face publicly.) Comics don't make money, these days. They are a means to an end, and he's acting as such. Mark clearly points out that Perlmutter is a massive tightwad, which normally means they're bad at the long-term strategic aspects of bigger trends. As a result, he can look at the books better than someone on the Internet, and if we can figure out that the books themselves aren't profitable directly, it's clear that cutting production costs as much as possible is the optimum approach from a Static Analysis perspective. One should view the publication of comics as an insurance policy that needs to be paid by the IP Rights holders.

As for the Fox News analogy, I think Mark doesn't understand the "Murdoch Model". Old Rupert repeated this across the globe: show up, make a center-left/corporate news organization and get as many boobs as possible in front of the audience. All of the rest of the media is fighting to be "prestige", so Murdoch just comes in and appeals to the middle. It gives the project a market of between 65-75% to target. Notice how it keeps working? Any right-wing approach is slandered constantly, but Murdoch has never been on the Right. He's just been moderate capitalist.

Blogger doctrev October 11, 2018 12:56 PM  

VD wrote:Bleeding Cool's attempts to interject into the debate are often tedious when they're not entirely wrong, such as claiming VD did not previously speak about Brexit before 2017.

After I sent him links dating back to 2014 which referred implicitly or explicitly to my expectations that Britain would be the first nation leave the EU as it collapsed, he graciously agreed to amend that particular statement.


That's refreshingly honest. Thank you, and to Mr. Seifert.

If I can offer one bit of perspective to you, Mr. Seifert: paying attention to the mainstream media shows the White House is in "chaos." In reality, the economy is booming, Donald Trump has made fewer failed Supreme Court nominations than George W. Bush, and America is at the center of major coalitions in the Middle East and Asia. From Poland to Italy, the alt-right is advancing across Europe, and Brazil will almost certainly have a leader that makes Rodrigo Duterte look like a skirt-clinging thumbsucker. That's not what losing looks like.

If you watch major documentaries on the rise of white supremacy, you'll realize two things. One, the following of Richard Spencer is trivial. Milo Yiannopoulos is a homosexual gadfly, yet his following on the alt-right dwarfs Spencer. Two... even knowing this fact, the mass media focuses on Spencer and Charlottesville. They know the alt-right is offering a product which is increasingly popular worldwide, and that it bears no resemblance to what Western outsiders claim it is.

Take it or leave it, as you will. I would find it greatly amusing if Bleeding Cool because a much more reliable source for actual news than CNN.

Blogger Longtime Lurker October 11, 2018 12:56 PM  

@79: "You've got enemies, but mostly, they're not the ones you think they are. I'm sure you don't believe that, and that's fine. Keeping the dialog open is what matters."

Do tell. In the interest of keeping the dialogue open. . .

Blogger Lance E October 11, 2018 12:56 PM  

Good interview, in spite of a few grating "hah your actions aren't consistent with your beliefs" gotcha attempts. Not just the ancestry thing, but several other points like living in Italy, the fallout with EVS, enabling imitators, etc. The line about food was C-R-I-N-G-E.

Mark, if you're reading: it's not about me, it's not about you, it's not about Vox, it's not about any of us. It's about the ideas, the arguments, and the current and historical trends. Very few of us are blind ideologues who don't understand pragmatism, but individual circumstances are irrelevant and distracting in the realm of philosophy and statecraft.

To give some credit to the counterpoint, Perlmutter is one of the more interesting side stories. One concept that rank-and-file progressives hard a very hard time with is that corporatism and progressivism are two mutually-reinforcing sides of the same coin. There are many, many reasons why a "Republican" billionaire might allow or even encourage this to happen within his own company, connections to Trump notwithstanding. (Remember, Trump was a New York Democrat until very recently, he's got all kinds of bizarre connections.) Let's also not forget that Disney owns Marvel now; Ike's role may not be as significant as it used to be.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 12:59 PM  

Blaidd wrote:Mark Seifert wrote:He has made Marvel employees retrieve paper clips from the trash to be re-used

Marvel Entertainment is not Marvel Comics and Ike isn't even CEO of Marvel Entertainment anymore. Maybe he is still leaning on the CEO of Marvel to pinch pennies but Marvel Comics isn't the money maker for Marvel anymore. The idea that Ike has the inclination much less the ability to review the contents of the latest Ms. Marvel issue or decide that Falcon is now Captain America because Cap is a HYDRA agent is ridiculous.


I have direct knowledge of how the relationship between Ike Perlmutter and Marvel EiC CB Cebulski works. The situation is as I have described. And Perlmutter is detail oriented to an unbelievable degree.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 1:02 PM  

"Two... even knowing this fact, the mass media focuses on Spencer and Charlottesville. "

Notice... everytime someone reports on ANTIFA violence... the lefty instantly brings up Charlottesville as evidence that there is somehow violence on both sides.

I would remind you that this is exactly what Charlottesville was designed to accomplish. We (MOTW) called it beforehand. We told everyone to stay away. We specifically contacted the League of the South and told them not to go to the Unite The Right Rally.


No one listened.

Blogger Lance E October 11, 2018 1:03 PM  

Mark Seifert wrote:And I hope you'd agree that lying, pomposity, smugness, groupthink are not confined to the left?

Confined? Certainly not. Concentrated in? Absolutely.

For the simple reason that lying, pomposity, smugness and groupthink on the left tends gets rewarded, whereas even the faintest whiff of misconduct will get a right-winger unpersoned from every major social media site and payment processor.

I predict that you will deny this, to which I say: Sarah Jeong.

Blogger Looking Glass October 11, 2018 1:05 PM  

@79 Mark Seifert

It's to your credit this wasn't a hit piece, though, around here, I'd say you do come across as a Heartland-based Delta that's trying to understand a Sigma. Much of Vox's approach will be incomprehensible owing solely to that.

Credit though on the James McDowell find. That's just interesting.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 1:05 PM  

" Look at how few people ever comment on my occasional DevGame posts. For example, right now I’m working on a statistical model for a professional sports game. There are a number of interesting tradeoffs to consider, but I can probably count on one hand the number of people who want to discuss them."

Sounds fascinating to me.

I looked at 4th Street Baseball, and it is the FIRST baseball board game that actually incorporates the concept that the differences in defensive abilities of players on your team are as important as batting averages in choosing who to put in the line-up.

Most games only incorporate batting stats, and nothing else -- which in no way accounts for why, in the early 1970's, the Detroit Tigers put Eddie Brinkman in at Shortstop, for every game, despite batting just over .200.

Blogger Mark Seifert October 11, 2018 1:05 PM  

doctrev wrote:VD wrote:Bleeding Cool's attempts to interject into the debate are often tedious when they're not entirely wrong, such as claiming VD did not previously speak about Brexit before 2017.

After I sent him links dating back to 2014 which referred implicitly or explicitly to my expectations that Britain would be the first nation leave the EU as it collapsed, he graciously agreed to amend that particular statement.


That's refreshingly honest. Thank you, and to Mr. Seifert.

If I can offer one bit of perspective to you, Mr. Seifert: paying attention to the mainstream media shows the White House is in "chaos." In reality, the economy is booming, Donald Trump has made fewer failed Supreme Court nominations than George W. Bush, and America is at the center of major coalitions in the Middle East and Asia. From Poland to Italy, the alt-right is advancing across Europe, and Brazil will almost certainly have a leader that makes Rodrigo Duterte look like a skirt-clinging thumbsucker.


I'm kind of tearing my hair out over how much of this 'conflict' is about marketing and semantics. There are points there that I disagree with, but the greater point is the left and right tribes speak SUCH A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE now that communication is broken. That's largely what I see.

I need to jet off and get that update in there on the Brexit thing and get some work done. I'll catch up with this again a little later.

Blogger doctrev October 11, 2018 1:06 PM  

Mark Seifert wrote:BC is the only rogue nuclear power in its space (and that's not trained on you). That keeps dialogs open.

You've got enemies, but mostly, they're not the ones you think they are. I'm sure you don't believe that, and that's fine. Keeping the dialog open is what matters.


Your honesty is enough for me to offer you a second consideration. If you wanted to scroll through the blog archives, you would quickly learn that Vox Day has a very low opinion of television talking heads, including and especially ones on Fox. Michelle Malkin, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro... Vox Day does not respect them, much less envy them. If he wanted to sell out intellectually, he absolutely could- and have influence orders of magnitude above what he enjoys, even as a mindless pro-Trump intellectual.

By the same token, I am not as hardcore as the VFM, yet I do not regard Fox News as a reliable ally. Their paymasters have goals that differ from ours, especially regarding trade and multinational corporations: they have many personalities that attempted to throw both the 2016 election and the Kavanaugh confirmation. We might already agree about the enemies you think we share.

Blogger Looking Glass October 11, 2018 1:10 PM  

On the Perlmutter/VA discussion, I think this shows a lack of understanding of how disastrously bad & corrupt the VA has been. Perlmutter is the exact type of guy that you'd want attack the place. The fact he's involved is quite interesting on its own. That class of wealth almost never does anything practically useful.

Blogger doctrev October 11, 2018 1:15 PM  

doctrev wrote:Mark Seifert wrote:BC is the only rogue nuclear power in its space (and that's not trained on you). That keeps dialogs open.

You've got enemies, but mostly, they're not the ones you think they are. I'm sure you don't believe that, and that's fine. Keeping the dialog open is what matters.


If he wanted to sell out intellectually, he absolutely could- and have influence orders of magnitude above what he enjoys, even as a mindless pro-Trump intellectual.


By which I hasten to add: mindless boosterism would make him famous among the right-wing. He would be far, far more influential if he pretended to adopted Ben Shapiro style conservatism, especially as he would be much more formidable than Shapiro at defending it intellectually.

Blogger Blaidd October 11, 2018 1:16 PM  

Mark Seifert wrote:I have direct knowledge of how the relationship between Ike Perlmutter and Marvel EiC CB Cebulski works. The situation is as I have described. And Perlmutter is detail oriented to an unbelievable degree.


Then to steal the old Epicurus quote, if he is able but unwilling to put a stop to Marvel Comics writers torpedoing the brand with their two-spirit demisexual insanity, then he is malevolent. No amount of support for Trump is will counter that destruction of culture.

Blogger Peaceful Poster October 11, 2018 1:26 PM  

And I hope you'd agree that lying, pomposity, smugness, groupthink are not confined to the left? And think you've seen a prominent example of that recently in fact?

Surely you can't be referring to the God Emperor.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 1:31 PM  

"And I hope you'd agree that lying, pomposity, smugness, groupthink are not confined to the left? And think you've seen a prominent example of that recently in fact?"

You should perhaps remember that here... right and left are largely viewed as out-dated political monikers that don't represent the current state of our political conflict.

here.. we believe things have shifted beyond right and left to globalist vs nationalist.

That said...the Right is absolutely prone to group think... as it is made up of humans and group think is largely a human trait. its a bad human trait... like murder... but it is still a human trait.

that said... if you can find me a crazy gun nut out there working in the HR department of a company getting people fired because they are pro gun control... I would be very impressed.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 1:33 PM  

Also.. When I think of Lying Pomposity Smugness and GroupThink Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson absolutely come to mind.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 11, 2018 1:45 PM  

Welcome @54, nice of you to stop by.

As fun as engaging in a debate with 50 people would be for you, I'll try to not to bait you into responding to me.

Firstly, good job. You did far better than a mainstream journalist would have done.

Beware being unable to see the forest for the trees. I don't just mean the interview. Be suspicious of us all you want, but be suspicious of everyone else too.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 1:56 PM  

Nate wrote:"This article is stupidly long and incredibly strange."

This says a great deal more about you than the interviewer.



No it doesn't. If it were a good article, I wouldn't mind the length. The guy drones on and on while saying very little.
The worst part about it is it has no flow. I don't really like his style either. It has mostly been a chore to read it.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 2:02 PM  

"No it doesn't. If it were a good article, I wouldn't mind the length. The guy drones on and on while saying very little."

You're an idiot.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 11, 2018 2:05 PM  

@Mark Seifert

Thank you for writing this.

I hope a fair interview with Vox won't be enough sink your career.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 11, 2018 2:06 PM  

If you disagree and can show me why, you could convince me.

I didn't mean it was a lie. That kind of vague appeal to data usually precedes a statement that the writer doesn't feel comfortable enough with to state outright, which tells me the statement probably won't stand up to scrutiny. Or, as in this case, means less than it seems to imply, even if true.

NeverTrumpers never tired of telling us that Donald Trump was "associated with" the Clintons, even showing us pictures to prove it. I think it's well established by this point that they're neither buddies nor political allies. If the data supports the contention that some DC/Marvel executives are "associated with" Donald Trump, why should we infer that they would do his bidding any more than the Clintons are? If we can't, it's a meaningless point except for those who deal in guilt by assocation.

Right-wingers have heard many, many times over the years that because so-and-so person/company is associated with Republicans/conservatives in some way, they wouldn't produce left-wing trash and we're paranoid if we think so. The suits in boardrooms are supposed to be conservative, at least about money, so they wouldn't allow their products to be ruined by radicals. I can remember when Bill Gates was thought to lean right because the Clinton administration went after Microsoft, but I think Gates has established his globalist-left bona fides by now. Many were relieved when Disney bought Star Wars because, "Well, we know Disney likes money, so they won't let it get political and alienate anyone." Yeah, about that....

It's just not true. One barely-literate woman at Sony destroyed Ghostbusters and none of the pin-striped bean-counters stopped her. One woman is trying to do the same with Star Wars, and Disney gave her a new contract. When there was a virtue-signal-palooza about gay marriage a year or two ago and companies were rainbow-izing their social media accounts, wanna bet DC and Marvel went rainbow? If some executives at these companies are resistant to the left-wing narrative, they're either outnumbered or not paying attention.

It's a well-written, solid article and interview. Thank you for doing it.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 11, 2018 2:15 PM  

@89

Same.

"While I’m delighted to discuss the details of writing, game design, and music theory, I have learned that very few people actually want to read about them."

Music theory isn't really my thing and 99% of it would be way over my head. I love the game design stuff because I actually understand that and I like the writing stuff because I read what Vox writes. I was pleased with Jon managing to get Vox to talk about the writing stuff for once.

If I ever sit next to Vox on a plane and he doesn't have something over his ears or a screen covering half of his face, I'd try to get the closest thing to a devgame course that I could out of it.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 2:24 PM  

Nate wrote:"No it doesn't. If it were a good article, I wouldn't mind the length. The guy drones on and on while saying very little."

You're an idiot.


Perhaps. Can you explain why you thought this was such a great article?
Granted, it's better than the typical hit-pieces we're used to, but if this article involved anyone but VD, would you find it interesting?

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 2:33 PM  

"“As an aside: OMG who wants to live in a world without food from other cultures?”

Because apparently it’s impossible to cook food from another country without inviting half the country in question in..."

From this point on, the proper response to trying to justify immivasion by "foreign food" should be:

"Cookbooks. How do they work?"

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 2:39 PM  

" Can you explain why you thought this was such a great article?
Granted, it's better than the typical hit-pieces we're used to, but if this article involved anyone but VD, would you find it interesting?"

The research alone makes this article damned worth reading. The work he did on Robert Beale was fantastic. The work he did on McDowell is absolutely fantastic.

At this point... if this dude were to interview a bum off 3rd street... I would eat it up.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 2:40 PM  

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand Bleeding cool just wiped out ALL of the comments!

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 2:43 PM  

Right after I started introducing truth in reply to all of the "He's a WACIST!" comments.

Especially when after someone did an "aha" with the half-savage remark about NK Jemesin .. I asked the commenter why he didn't include Jemisin's reply that "[she] isn't a half-savage, [she] is a full savage" and thus admitting that she herself admits that she is incapable of fully fitting in with civilized society.

And that's when ALL the comments when *POOF*

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 2:44 PM  

Either that, or Discus or BC have a way of blocking even viewing comments (but not the Discus framework) by specified IP addresses.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 2:55 PM  

@106 Very deep. Has not read a single comic Vox has published while writing an article about Vox's comics publishing company.
Marvel is actually a right wing Trumpian publishing company.

Admittedly, it is also about Vox's view of the world and the US especially. But it is a comics website interviewing a comics publisher.
Fact is, he probably has read Vox's published work, but cannot find anything wrong enough to trash Vox's comics. So, when you can't beat them, lie about it.
He does this stuff throughout the article. I kept reading it because I thought it was going to get good. There were a few good sections, but most I found to be as tedious as reading about how Marvel is actually right wing.

Blogger Lance E October 11, 2018 3:10 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:
"Cookbooks. How do they work?"


Based on one of his earlier responses here, the rationale appears to be that if you prepare Butter Chicken, you immediately begin to lose 10% of your muscle mass, believe in an elephant-headed god, and say the word "fanTAStic" every third sentence, and therefore we might as well just skip the formalities and invite them all in right now.

Perhaps "Yes, but once you do that... well, I'll leave you to think about it" meant something else, but I can't quite imagine what. Perhaps they get angry at you for Cultural Appropriation and declare war?

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 3:17 PM  

I think we can handle a cultural appropriation war with India. USN beats IN, and USAF beats IAF. Therefore, we don't have to worry about a war of attrition with the Indian Army.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 3:34 PM  

@110

The primary factor in judging an interview is this... did you learn something true about the subject.

I've known Vox for going on 20 years and I learned something from this interview. Hell VOX learned something from this interview.


Blogger Patrick Kelly October 11, 2018 3:40 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:Either that, or Discus or BC have a way of blocking even viewing comments (but not the Discus framework) by specified IP addresses.

I can read see new comments, including the long one about NKJ, but Dirk's reply is not there.

Blogger Daniel October 11, 2018 4:34 PM  

Nate, the rebuttal asides are distracting, especially since they are written (intentionally, I believe) with lower verbal intelligence and less precision than the excellent questions and correspondence.

I suspect they serve (at least subconsciously) as some sort of rhetorical shield against the anticipated shrieking of the SJWs.

Of course, they didn't work, so they instead serve as an irritating distraction.

The interview and research itself? Pure gold.

Blogger Salt October 11, 2018 4:36 PM  

The shrieking in the comments alone is worth the interview.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 11, 2018 4:49 PM  

I guess Truth ==> Permaban. Not even allowed to SEE the comments!

Blogger Taqiyyotomist October 11, 2018 4:50 PM  

Absolutely awesome interview, on both your parts, Vox. Easily the best I've ever had the pleasure of reading. Kudos to Bleeding Cool for actually being intelligent, rather than pretending. I am better for having read it.

Blogger Nate October 11, 2018 5:02 PM  

I think my favorite comments are the ones that are screeching about how bad it is because the interview "gave a platform" to Vox.

As if Vox doesn't have several enormous platforms all his own.

Blogger Taqiyyotomist October 11, 2018 5:21 PM  

Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood Liberal Democrat, before becoming the God Emperor of the 1980s, for the Republicans.

He told us all, authoritatively, that the Beruit bombing of our Marine barracks was just a one-off, a Lone Wolf, unconnected to any ideology whatsoever, other than the amorphous idea called "terrorism".

This most conservative, intelligent man in the world, that we so revered as super-conservative somehow missed that the Muslim Brotherhood that made that bombing happen had been in existence since the 19-teens, and was fully informed and formed by the ideology called Islam. President Reagan missed that, somehow. Despite being so intelligent. Completely missed it.

Perlmutter? You can say who he is cozy with, as a gotcha, but what does his company actually DO, in the realm of ideas pushed to the masses? Proof of the pudding, and all that. We can taste the pudding, and it isn't Trumpian.

Again, excellent discussion, Mark and Vox. I hope to see a part 2.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel October 11, 2018 5:58 PM  

AltHero Q got yanked down by Indie go go. Uh oh, here we go.

Blogger Ledford Ledford October 11, 2018 6:01 PM  

Mark Seifert wrote:Congratulations, Mr. Day. You've jumped into unfamiliar territory, raised an army from nothing, and set about seizing ground and creating panic in the enemy.

No. I will argue with Vox Day about ideas All. Day. Long. Happy to compete on ideas, and happy to amend opinion based on new info.

I am the co-founder of a publisher that does a comic called Uber about evil nazi superhumans destroying Europe and attacking America (of course, we're not to the end yet). And a comic called Crossed about the most vile form of zombies you can possibly imagine. And a comic called Neonomicon that is Alan Moore doing HPL and nobody telling him what he can and can't have in there.

Lots of people hate our comics. We've had plenty of distribution problems. Nobody calls me a Nazi. And I also run the leftiest website in our space. I like disruption, but view it in a different way than you do.


"Creating panic in the enemy" was meant to refer to the comics industry, Marvel, DC, etc., not to Mr. Seifert. I've not read the interview, which judging by Mr. Seifert's thoughtful comments is a good one. Apologies for not being clear.

Blogger Sam October 11, 2018 6:19 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:I think we can handle a cultural appropriation war with India. USN beats IN, and USAF beats IAF. Therefore, we don't have to worry about a war of attrition with the Indian Army.

Are we going to get a serious answer? This plus "Diversity leads to new ideas" (Africa is the most diverse continent on the planet with several hundred languages and ethnic groups) are classic crimestop and interfere with the ability to interact with ideas.

Blogger Silent Draco October 11, 2018 6:31 PM  

My Alt-Hero:Q donations on Indiegogo got refunded. It only took 12 hrs for Indiegogo's Trust and Safety Council to decide this was ultra-bad wrongthink, following a good interview.

Blogger Avalanche October 11, 2018 6:50 PM  

@13 VD: "read the whole thing before commenting on it."

Sorry, will do.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 11, 2018 8:26 PM  

That's a new one, a self-fisking interview. They must really be afraid of the flashback

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 11, 2018 9:15 PM  

They took it down.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 11, 2018 9:51 PM  

80. Nate October 11, 2018 12:54 PM
its bizarre to me that commenters here are attempting to attack Mark.. particularly when the guy just did more to reform the historical record of Vox's dad than anyone else has... ever.


*shrugs*

i just got attacked this week for having the temerity to Spoonerize Tucker Carlson's name.

and Tucker doesn't even post here.

and i didn't even say anything bad ABOUT Cucker Tarlson.

Blogger SirHamster October 11, 2018 9:54 PM  

Did anyone make an archive? "Page not found" for the article link.

Blogger DeeJay October 11, 2018 10:05 PM  

A site called Sound Books had a copy of it, I archived that:

http://archive.is/mokiv

Blogger SirHamster October 11, 2018 10:05 PM  

Thanks!

Blogger Reasonably Honest October 11, 2018 10:07 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Reasonably Honest October 11, 2018 10:08 PM  

Gutless little bitches.

I waited all day to read that article with a nice beer or two. Whoops on me! I figured it might last a day or two before the spineless comic geeks caved in to the lunatics. Oh well.

Thanks for the archive DeeJay.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 11, 2018 11:10 PM  

https://web.archive.org/web/20181011131958/https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10/10/vox-day-altered-states-of-america/

Sucks for them, having to nuke their own articles because their readers are SJWs.

Proof that if you make the case that Vox is descended from American heroes and is trying to defend his history, it makes 0 difference.

Blogger Amy K. October 11, 2018 11:10 PM  

Reasonably Honest, I read it first thing this morning specifically because I figured it might be taken down.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 11, 2018 11:34 PM  

BC: Look at what you’ve said here: you know you are being miscomprehended by many, you know that’s going to cause harm, you’re doing it anyway.

the miscomprehension OF OTHERS is not Vox's fault.

the miscomprehension OF OTHERS does not in any way "cause harm" ... except via THEIR poor choices and stupid actions.

Vox should stop speaking because incompetent, nutty or lying 3rd parties might fail to comprehend him?

why don't you just assert that Vox should accept his appointment to Chief Justice ... and then promptly resign?

fucking moronic.

IF lying, nutty retards cause harm
THEN lying nutty retards should be held to account for the damage they cause.

i'm looking at you, Blasey-Ford.

Blogger Jack Ward October 11, 2018 11:47 PM  

That was frustrating. Finally had time to read the interview; followed Vox link, got to bleedingcool site and the interview. Had to leave for a bit. Then every try to get back to bleedingcool site showed a fault screen. Tried both the archive hints in the comments. One got to it then failed; the other got to the title then locked up my laptop to where I had to use the crash button on this Lenovo to break free. Someone is dead set on putting this interview in some grave. Maybe Vox has a copy he can link to that won't go bye bye or trash out your computer. ???

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 11, 2018 11:54 PM  

I have direct knowledge of how the relationship between Ike Perlmutter and Marvel EiC CB Cebulski works. The situation is as I have described. And Perlmutter is detail oriented to an unbelievable degree.

You're making a HUGE, and as it turns out incorrect, assumption in this analysis. In accord with your habit of making cryptic unsupported declarations based on secret knowledge, I'll let you figure it out.

Blogger Joe Katzman October 12, 2018 12:35 AM  

Mark Seifert,

Sounds like a very creditable job. Unfortunately, I can't read it because it is no longer on the site. The URL is blank, and I can't find it via search on Bleeding Cool.

Did your article get disappeared?


MS: "And I hope you'd agree that lying, pomposity, smugness, groupthink are not confined to the left? And think you've seen a prominent example of that recently in fact?"

Oh, plenty. You won't get much argument about that here. Guys like Ben Shapiro and Jonah Goldberg barely rise to the status of NPCs.

It's the other elements involved that differentiate a Jonah Goldberg from a leftist SJW. Those elements are very consequential if you want to predict behavior, and are ideology-specific.

At the same time, there's an overlap via the socio-sexual hierarchy. Go to Vox's Alpha Game blog and look for articles with tags related to "gamma." It is likely to be unpleasantly clarifying re: clarifying a number of workplace interactions over the years. Brother, we've all had 'em.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 12, 2018 12:42 AM  

a further rebuttal of preposterous "miscomprehension argument":
Spiderman spent literally his first 40 years being miscomprehended by J. Jonah Jameson, and having to find ways to defend his mask identity against the attacks of his IRL boss.

the Punisher has spent most of his career being "miscomprehended" by authority figures.

the Man-Thing spent his whole career being completely inscrutable to the humans around him. the only thing they knew was that they burned with fear at his touch.

how many have failed to understand the Hulk? and he's one of the simplest characters there is.

for a guy who claims to have an encyclopedic knowledge of comicsania, this was an utterly bizarre assertion, to assert that this is only a characteristic of villainy.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 12, 2018 12:53 AM  

archive of the article:
https://archive.is/Yayws

Blogger Jefferson Kim October 12, 2018 1:21 AM  

Apology from Bleeding Cool about posting about Vox Day:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/10/11/an-apology-concerning-vox-day-we-made-a-mistake/

>We at Bleeding Cool wish to issue an apology.

Bleeding Cool does not support bigotry of any kind, nor will we become a bullhorn for the bigots of the world to go off.

Today one of our writers made an error in judgement resulting in giving exposure to viewpoints that we abhor. We will do better, going forward, and that is a promise. The author admits that this was an extreme error of judgement that never should have been made and that other members of the Bleeding Cool writing staff were unaware of the contents of this article.

In a first step towards that end we are announcing, effective immediately, I am stepping into the role of Editor-in-Chief and will be implementing new review policies across the Bleeding Cool teams. Yesterday an extensive interview was run with publisher, author, and political figure Vox Day.

The intention of the interview was to investigate Day’s political and ideological views, and his operations as a publisher. But these intentions do not matter. The intent of the article and interview were poorly executed, and poorly communicated.

While the intentions of the author might have been one thing, the reality of the situation is another. Bleeding Cool would like to issue a sincere apology to everyone for the article in question.

We do not, in any way, agree with the ideology of Vox Day. We do not support divisiveness in the fan community, or in our culture at large. We do not support those that try to bring down others. We support diversity in all aspects of pop culture. We support everyone fighting the good fight against bigotry and only wish we could play a part in making not only the internet but the world a safer place for all individuals. We cannot apologize enough for the people we have offended. We cannot apologize enough for the breach of trust this has had with our readers and people within the community. We hope you’ll be willing to give us a chance to win back that trust in some capacity.

We will do better.

Blogger bob kuk mando ( i'm sorry you raped Andrea Dworkin and i disavow your Patriarchal Cisheteronormative Bourgeois Consciousness in shame ) October 12, 2018 1:35 AM  

We do not, in any way, agree with the ideology of Vox Day.

every time the WashPo or NYT publishes an article on Trump and Muh Russian Collusion
...
it means they agree with Trump?


baw-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

that's right Siefert. kneel. confess your False Bourgeois Consciousness and beg permission to assuage your guilt before the Proletariat by committing suicide.

don't you know?

YOUR EDITOR MISCOMPREHENDING YOU CAUSES HARM AND YOUR PERSISTENCE IN PUBLISHING STORIES ABOUT VOX DAY INDICATES YOUR FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL NATURE.

fricking retard.

Blogger Lance E October 12, 2018 2:03 AM  

I have a suspicion that Vox expected this outcome, or at least saw it as a lesser win. He DTTTM unless there's something to gain.

This is going to backfire on BC. I can already see it in their Twitter replies. The way they killed the article and the absurd explanation following it was so ham-handed and obviously hypocritical that even several of the Vox-haters are annoyed, as well they should be. If we take the "mea culpa" at face value, they're about to introduce even more draconian measures to prevent even the most minor deviation from the narrative, thus alienating an even larger segment of their readership.

This was simply another bad tactical play from SJWs who can't control their emotions.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 12, 2018 2:29 AM  

"I did no such thing, and in fact you are incorrect. Why did you just lie about it? If you don't think Marvel's EiC bends to Ike's will, you are mistaken."

There is a distinct difference between having control and using it:

"To think that he can brush aside Cabinet Secretaries and other high government officials without a thought to implement important governmental policy of his own accord, yet somehow, CB Cebulski does not act in accordance with his wishes in terms of the makeup and direction of Marvel Comics… is a puzzle."

^This is you. He may have the ability to control, but as per your quote, he is not in fact controlling. I apologize for my hyperbole in saying "anything", but you did indeed say in synonymous words that he does not appear to be controlling CB Cebulski.

I can understand the misunderstanding between terms. Overall, good job with your research man.

Blogger S1AL October 12, 2018 3:30 PM  

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that today Seifert has learned the difference between possessing and exerting editorial control.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 12, 2018 10:53 PM  

If you don't use it, you lose it.

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