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Monday, October 29, 2018

Mailvox: Fight the good fight

A Christian reader shares his experience of returning to his converged home church:
I wanted to drop a note and let you know what a comfort your postings on what is happening in the church have been to me. My wife and I recently rejoined the church I grew up in and am just now realizing how bad the necrosis actually is. This church has been a community bulwark for over 150 years but over the last decade has succumbed to the conciliatory vacuousness of SJWs in the exact sequence of events you frequently describe. I can't imagine they will even be able to stomach proclaiming the narrow path of salvation or deity of Christ five years from now.

Your posts are like receiving an explicit diagnosis for the rare disease no one has been able to diagnose for years. I pray it is not too late to effect an intervention of some sort. I think it is safe to assume your occasional thoughts on this matter are greatly appreciated by many like me.
Remember, we will win the war. But we're going to lose more than few battles along the way. The important thing is to never submit and never stop getting back up again. We're the special forces operating in enemy territory, undertaking the mission in the supreme confidence that our Commander will launch the orbital artillery and send in the space marines at the precise moment He deems right.

If you want to understand that exact sequence of events he describes, read SJWs Always Double Down. It's all in there.

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69 Comments:

Blogger Gregory the Great October 29, 2018 11:16 AM  

I had an experience where I tried to convince some SJWs that I was not racist. It was a delicate situation as I had been invited to the house of an old friend I had not seen for years and I did not want to seem too harsh in my arguments and my style of discussion. Anyway, it led nowhere, and I have the firm intention to never again apologize or retract anything in similar situations in the future.

Blogger Unknown October 29, 2018 11:17 AM  

''undertaking the mission in the supreme confidence that our Commander will launch the orbital artillery and send in the space marines at the precise moment He deems right'

Commander Christ knows all and sees all. we will be OK in the end, IF we do precisely this

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira October 29, 2018 11:28 AM  

>We're the special forces operating in enemy territory
This is how I see it. And many good soldiers are still lost in the fog of war in the middle of no man's land. Hoping that this will change soon, until then bayonets should stay fixed and heads on swivels.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 29, 2018 11:31 AM  

SPACE FORCE

Blogger JAG October 29, 2018 11:41 AM  

Good Christians simply need to disengage from the converged churches in favor of Bible study groups with other good Christians.

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

-- King James Version

Blogger Miguel October 29, 2018 11:45 AM  

Thank God you are on God's side, VD.

Blogger Miguel October 29, 2018 11:50 AM  

"Good Christians simply need to disengage from the converged churches in favor of Bible study groups with other good Christians."

I understand the feeling but this is Biblicaly wrong. Remember what the Lord said about Sarids:

"Jesus quickly and clearly condemns the lifeless state of the Sardian church: “I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead” (Revelation 3:2). This church may have had a good reputation, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion. There were many tares among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30)."

But at no moment did the Lord say "get out of this church, O my people!" He commends those who are in there and who are faithful to Him:

“Yet you have still a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy” (Revelation 3:4)"

If one church is bad, find another one. But don't stay out of church.

Blogger JAG October 29, 2018 11:57 AM  

Miguel, I quite clearly referred to converged churches, and not The church. If you are a member of a non-converged church then all is good in your world.

Blogger Miguel October 29, 2018 12:01 PM  

JAG,

I understand. But wouldn't you agree that a converged church is lifeless and one that has a reputation of being alive, but is dead?

Cheers.

Blogger Didas Kalos October 29, 2018 12:04 PM  

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Blogger OGRE October 29, 2018 12:13 PM  

I wonder if his church is corrupted at the local or the institutional level. Thats one big problem with the top-down church structure, rot at the top flows down to the local churches without many ways to prevent it from seeping in. But if its a primarily local issue...well theres few things in this life more worthy of going all in on then protecting your home church.

Blogger Dangeresque October 29, 2018 12:25 PM  

Hmm... You must be reading an older translation. Mine says:

"For where two or three trannies are gathered in a strip-mall church in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

-Matthew 69:420

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 29, 2018 12:38 PM  

Come on people - 12 comments and already with the factional infighting?

Get it together.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 29, 2018 12:40 PM  

Sometimes I really feel like going to church and saying that which needs to be said. Even the thought of it gives me a strange otherwordly energy.

Blogger MendoScot October 29, 2018 12:41 PM  

Agreed, JAG, but that's where you train with your squad. Then take it back to our churches, so that our brothers and sisters are not led astray.

Blogger MendoScot October 29, 2018 12:43 PM  

RM™ In this context, I think factional infighting is on topic.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 29, 2018 12:57 PM  

The LACK of factional infighting is what has lead so many churches (and fully degenerated churches which continue to used the building) to this condition.

Blogger Elijah October 29, 2018 1:00 PM  

i actually belong to a Catholic parish that is not converged. The pastor is out spoken and orthodox. Of course he is also married. He was one of the Episcopal priests that Pope John Paul 2 allowed into the church and dispensed with the discipline of celibacy for those married priests. hope that is not a sign.

Blogger Unknown October 29, 2018 1:02 PM  

The only "non-converged" Christian church is Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Disagree? Prove me wrong.

Blogger James Dixon October 29, 2018 1:05 PM  

For those who need a little more encouragement than just written words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgpcgO4Hvk

Blogger Blaidd October 29, 2018 1:08 PM  

Speaking of winning, Merkel ist weg.

Blogger VD October 29, 2018 1:12 PM  

Speaking of winning, Merkel ist weg.

No, she isn't. She's done in 2021.

Blogger Andrew Brown October 29, 2018 1:22 PM  

Reminds me of the Psalm "Our Commander is in Heaven, He does whatever He pleases"

Blogger Bill Halsey October 29, 2018 1:26 PM  

Merkel has resigned

Blogger Stephen St. Onge October 29, 2018 1:30 PM  

Any idea when you'll be publishing SJWs Always Project? I'm eagerly awaiting.

Blogger VD October 29, 2018 1:41 PM  

Merkel has resigned

No, Merkel has NOT resigned.

Merkel will step down as chancellor when her current mandate runs out in 2021.

That's like saying Obama resigned in 2013 because he wasn't going to run again in 2016.

Blogger MendoScot October 29, 2018 1:44 PM  

No, she isn't. She's done in 2021.

Yeah, I didn't see that caveat until later. Still, I wonder if she will survive. And stand by her claim that she won't look for an EU position.

Blogger James Dixon October 29, 2018 1:47 PM  

> No, Merkel has NOT resigned.

Not exactly, no. The BBC reports that she's stepping down as the head of the Christian Democrats in December, but wants to remain chancellor until 2021: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46016377

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 29, 2018 2:11 PM  

The fact that accurately summarizing the Koran is now considered hate speech in some cirlces should help redpill more people. I wonder if direct quotes are considered hate too, and if so, shouldn't the European language translations of the Koran be burned to avoid inciting hate speech?

Blogger John October 29, 2018 2:44 PM  

@19 The only "non-converged" Christian church is Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Disagree? Prove me wrong.

LCMS
No gay/girl pastors
Homosexuality = sin
Teaches against evolution
Anti-syncretism, anti-unionism
Confessionals firmly in control of seminaries
Confessionals mostly control church bureaucracy
Subscription to Book of Concord required for pastors
Openly heretical pastors actually removed from clergy roster
Confessional congregations = http://www.lutheranliturgy.org/index.php

Blogger Unknown October 29, 2018 2:45 PM  

I returned to visit the Lutheran Church of my youth years ago, in a very liberal city. My gut reaction was that it was some sort of lesbian Wiccan convention. Also, another plug for SJWs Always Double Down.

Blogger David The Good October 29, 2018 3:12 PM  

John wrote:@19 The only "non-converged" Christian church is Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Disagree? Prove me wrong.

LCMS

No gay/girl pastors

Homosexuality = sin

Teaches against evolution

Anti-syncretism, anti-unionism

Confessionals firmly in control of seminaries

Confessionals mostly control church bureaucracy

Subscription to Book of Concord required for pastors

Openly heretical pastors actually removed from clergy roster

Confessional congregations = http://www.lutheranliturgy.org/index.php


Yeah, WELS is good too. And the OPC is good.

Always some cucks and equalitarians in every church, but it's hard to get around the core teachings.

Blogger Chesapean October 29, 2018 3:23 PM  

# 7. Miguel

RE: "Jesus quickly and clearly condemns the lifeless state of the Sardian church: “I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead” (Revelation 3:2). This church may have had a good reputation, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion. There were many tares among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30)."

I interpret this differently. Here Jesus is making a practical point about the transmission of Christian knowledge. It literally cannot happen under certain circumstances. This is of immense technical significance to the seeker after truth.

One insight is to recegnize that the transmission_can_ occur in ad hoc settings which are properly attuned to the requirements. Thus the seeker continually faces an existential question: Am I in the right place, and how would I recognize it if I were, or weren't?

I don't disagree with your advice, Miguel, but the passage is also a good example of one that illustrates technical factors of the spiritual journey.

Blogger John October 29, 2018 4:04 PM  

@31 I returned to visit the Lutheran Church of my youth years ago, in a very liberal city. My gut reaction was that it was some sort of lesbian Wiccan convention.

IOW, an ELCA coven. That's why I specified the LCMS. According to Wikipedia (weirdly the page does not appear on infogal), there are 1860 EO parishes in the US, with 800k total membership. And the EO in America is not even unified in a single church bureaucracy/institution, but is a collection of various institutionally independent groups.

Meanwhile, the LCMS is an actual church bureaucracy/institution with 6101 parishes, 2 seminaries, and 2 million members, making it the largest unconverged church institution in America—and, therefore, all of Western Civilization. Obviously this depends on whether the SBC is considered converged.

@32 Always some cucks and equalitarians in every church, but it's hard to get around the core teachings.

Right. What matters is who controls the seminaries and the bureaucracy.

Blogger Lurker October 29, 2018 4:10 PM  

"Boomers are sheep" - said by a Silent or Greatest Gen prof somewhere...

Churchians are sheep obviously...

Don't be a sheep... Sheep Logic"

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 29, 2018 5:00 PM  

"The only "non-converged" Christian church is Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Disagree? Prove me wrong."

The church I attend is not converged, and is not EO. QED.

Blogger weka October 29, 2018 5:18 PM  

I am neither orthodox nor papist. But I will back the believers thee, though those leaders tend to be spineless, converged and corrupt.

Because Christ will find his faithful. This age will end.

BTW, the poop is coming fast and hard. The emeny wants us to honour the faith of generations past by obeying the traitors who wear a skinsuit and call to the church

Blogger weka October 29, 2018 5:18 PM  

Believers there .. .

Blogger HoosierHillbilly October 29, 2018 5:40 PM  

@5 Why not still be involved with your local church? By all means, study with your little group, and power to you for doing so! We need a place to bond, sharpen our iron, and refresh from the war. But this attitude just screams of squishy conservatism that keeps shooting us in the foot. "The liberals have taken over the education system. Someone should do something! The liberals have taken over the airwaves. Someone should do something! The liberals have taken over my local church. We should go and hide!"

IN THE U.S., WE'VE ALREADY RUN FOR A HUNDRED YEARS DAMN IT! Just as there is no frontier to ease our social tensions, there is no frontier to move into to ease our religious tensions any longer.

Look, the thought initially appears sound. Had it myself for years (of which I repent). My local church has turned its back on God, I can worship by myself or with a few others. But damn it man, we are just handing over the keys for hundreds and thousands of years of built-up goodwill and social capital throughout the world. Why can't WE purge THEM for a change? This time, they are the ones who got soft, and we've been training in the desert.

The question to ask yourself is: what would make me go back to the church down the street? They will reform themselves and then I shall walk back, now that they are worthy of my attention and attendance? Who the hell is going to do the fighting in your stead? There are unconverged churches out there, they exist. Find one and plug in, so we can get back to reclaiming our civilization.

Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox. No one smells like a rose right now. The mold is in different stages sure, but someone needs to pour the bleach. And if we all fail, and it all falls apart and gets worse and worse? Guess what, we get to be in our little house churches in the end just the same.

There are no special awards for declaring the end of the "Church Age" with an early entry.

Blogger Ledford Ledford October 29, 2018 5:47 PM  

@30 @32 @34

The LCMS sent its heretic seminarians into exile in the 1970's:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Seminex

Much to ponder there. I haven't read into it very closely. I'm curious to what extent it played out along lines described in SJWsADD. From what I've seen, the attempt was to converge the Church by first seizing the seminary.

I note there's a book about it from the LCMS publishing house:
https://www.amazon.com/A-Seminary-in-Crisis-ebook/dp/B002SDGLZ0/ref=sr_1_25?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1317142473&sr=1-25

The book is fifty bucks. Will someone else please read and report on it, or am I going to have to do it?

Blogger lynnjynh9315 October 29, 2018 7:54 PM  

Vox,

Are we in the End Times?

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit October 29, 2018 7:59 PM  

@40 If you don't mind waiting to get a copy, your local public library should be able to get a copy for you via "Inter Library Loan"

https://www.worldcat.org/title/seminary-in-crisis/oclc/2496781&referer=brief_results#borrow

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 29, 2018 8:13 PM  

"Are we in the End Times?"

We're nearly 2,000 years closer than we were when the end times were prophesied. No man will know the time, although I'm sure it will be obvious in retrospect.

Blogger Sithicus October 29, 2018 8:42 PM  

Vox, if the Space Marines and the orbital artillery fail, there is always Exterminatus.

Blogger John October 29, 2018 8:51 PM  

@40 I've have A Seminary In Crisis, read it years ago. The summary on https://infogalactic.com/info/Seminex is accurate.

Earlier events the infogal summary leaves out:
1945 - "A Statement of the Forty-Four", distributed throughout the synod arguing for laxer views on church ecumenicism (liberals always start there)
1950 - Calls at synod convention to investigate seminary faculty
1959 - Synod convention adopts resolution clarifying/reaffirming mandatory confessional standards for pastors/teachers/seminary professors
1965 - Synod convention hears overture concerning an article by a seminary professor denying the literal resurrection
1969 - Preus elected as Synod President
1971 - Preus's Fact Finding Committee makes its report (privately)
1971 - Synod convention orders the seminary Board of Control to receive and resolve the problems detected in the report
1972 - Reacting to the apparent strategies of the seminary faculty, Preus chooses the nuclear option: publishing the 'Blue Book' under heavy opsec, which included transcripts of all the Fact Finding Committee's interviews, distributed publicly to the synod (September)
1973 - (January) Seminary Board of Control votes to commend all professors in question, without correction
1973 - Synod convention, "Battle of New Orleans": Preus re-elected in a landslide (2:1), convention declares the seminary faculty to be in error and their heresies intolerable, specifically charges the seminary president with error, orders seminary Board of Control to resolve the problem
1973 - The defeated liberals engaged in the usual political nonsense to delay the inevitable, begin plans for "Seminary in Exile"
1974 - (January) Board of Control suspends seminary president, liberal students (the majority) declared moratorium on classes, then the professors went on strike
1974 - (February) Board of Control orders faculty to resume teaching or be terminated
The next day - The traitors staged their well-publicized walkout, never to return.
Aftermath - The LCMS rapidly rebuilt the seminary faculty and student body
2018 - The LCMS remains a thriving Christian bureaucracy, faithful to the Scriptures and the Book of Concord

The Seminex guys were just old-school theological liberals of the higher critical method (gospel reductionism, non-literal resurrection, non-literal miracles, etc). They would go on to support women's ordination, homo ordination, homo marriage, etc. They weren't proper SJWs (none of the development/mental problems), but they wanted to push liberalism. Like all liberals, they had little problem lying and using dishonest political tactics, they didn't give a damn about official policy and they sought nobody's permission. They just did what they wanted. These are the guys who bred the real SJWs.

But they didn't have the numbers, because the LCMS laity opposed theological liberalism. (The LCMS government is roughly 50/50 clergy and laity.) Once they were exposed by the 'Blue Book', it was all over.

"From what I've seen, the attempt was to converge the Church by first seizing the seminary."

They wanted to converge the synod, yes. But there wasn't some strategic plan to target the seminary per se. It was an organic clash between liberals and conservatives that had been brewing for decades (probably 50+ years, rooted back in liberal German theology from the previous century). What's neat is the conservatives actually won, which is remarkable considering this went down during the height of the Civil Rights Movement.

Blogger Ledford Ledford October 29, 2018 9:30 PM  

Thanks very much, John, that was very informative. From reading a little about it online, it didn't seem like a current year-style SJW situation.

The Missouri Synod and its Saxon forebears have a long history of defending the confessions. Even so, it's quite noteworthy they defeated the liberals at a time when conservatives were in full cultural retreat. It was Town vs Gown and Gown got stomped.

Blogger Beau October 29, 2018 11:42 PM  

“Stay dressed for action and keep your lamps burning, and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the wedding feast, so that they may open the door to him at once when he comes and knocks. Luke 12:35, 36

Tonight is the second evening of a week long evangelistic tent meeting held in a nondescript vacant lot at an unremarkable street corner in a small town. Tonight a middle aged woman filled with anger and venom broke. The text employed by the speaker was 1 John 4:18a, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." Have you ever seen a man or woman totally utterly broken before the Lord? She was set free.

Let us be about our Master's business.

Blogger Chiva October 30, 2018 2:08 AM  

Let us be about our Master's business

I wholeheartedly agree.

Blogger Monotonous Languor October 30, 2018 3:38 AM  

Re #1 Gregory the Great …

It's pointless to try and convince the enemy that you are not her enemy. Her mind is already made up. Her underlying assumptions are cast in concrete. She has set up a typical leftist tautology in which any attempt to defend yourself automatically proves her initial assertion. It is a quintessential NPC ploy, used time and time again in various guises. Unfortunately there is no good rhetorical name for it, at least none that I've found. Meanwhile call it the tautology of aggression, or pretext for proactive violence.

My response to being labeled a racist:
Racism is realism, and I am proud to be a realist.

Blogger inthebriarpatch October 30, 2018 6:11 AM  

Get Vox's SJW books to your pastor and Deacons.

Blogger inthebriarpatch October 30, 2018 6:15 AM  

I attend a non-converged Basswood church. I'm at the edge of eastern Kentucky, though. The Ossie is a high school class mate. He doesn't know the SJW lingo, but Eben I explained how the c church isn't converged, he got it.

It's truly awesome. I was recently saved.

Blogger inthebriarpatch October 30, 2018 6:16 AM  

*Baptist, not basswood.
Pastor not Ossie.

The older I get the less I like smart phones.

Blogger Rabid Ratel October 30, 2018 6:49 AM  

Monotonous Languor wrote:My response to being labeled a racist:

Racism is realism, and I am proud to be a realist.


I used to tell new people at work that I am a racist, long before they could accuse me of being one. It is strange how it shuts down most normies and some NPCs / SJWs, simply because they are used to people being on the defensive due to racism.

Blogger VD October 30, 2018 8:14 AM  

Are we in the End Times?

I very much doubt it. But no man knows.

Blogger Purge187 October 30, 2018 9:57 AM  

Not sure if any fellow Christians saw this nonsense:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2018/10/08/beth-moore-has-man-get-on-his-knees-apologize-on-behalf-of-all-men/

Her congregants need to make like Joseph and run like hell.

Blogger Mr Darcy October 30, 2018 10:59 AM  

@31:

http://eldona.org/

Blogger Mr Darcy October 30, 2018 11:04 AM  

@34

Ditto.

Blogger Mr Darcy October 30, 2018 11:10 AM  

@41:

"In many and various ways God spoke to us of old by the prophets. But in THESE LAST DAYS, He has spoken to us by His Son."
Hebrews 1:1-2a.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 30, 2018 2:43 PM  

@49

"It's pointless to try and convince the enemy that you are not her enemy. Her mind is already made up. Her underlying assumptions are cast in concrete. She has set up a typical leftist tautology in which any attempt to defend yourself automatically proves her initial assertion. It is a quintessential NPC ploy, used time and time again in various guises. Unfortunately there is no good rhetorical name for it, at least none that I've found."

Nobody here knows what any of that nonsense means, and NEITHER DO YOU. Now either shut up about it, or we are going to throw you out the window.

Blogger Unknown October 30, 2018 3:48 PM  

John,
I was told by a Professor in the Concordia System that Seminex was the only time in the history of the Western Church where a Church Body turned back the tide of Liberalism like that.

Blogger John October 30, 2018 4:55 PM  

@46, No problem. The book is informative if a little dry. He quotes a lot from Tietjen's book Memoirs in Exile, which I should read sometime. It also includes the entire report of the Fact Finding Committee, for the record. (That takes up most of the book, actually.)

The Missouri Synod and its Saxon forebears have a long history of defending the confessions.

Indeed. When I was a younger I sometimes thought our positions on unionism and syncretism were overzealous. Communion fellowship does not necessarily imply doctrinal agreement; it's not like we think other churches are actually outside Christ. However, now I realize that these positions have always been integral to protecting our institutional integrity. It's precisely because the Saxon immigrants were fleeing the forced integration of Lutheranism of Calvinism that they had this particularly stick up their butt. That's why we survived. Now…as I fully recognize…while the LCMS is American-flavored Lutheranism…we've sure as heck got nothing in common with American Christianity. /shrug

@60 I've heard that too. It's kinda neat, we've been blessed. We have another Synod convention coming up soon, when the liberals and moderates will get another crack at replacing the Reverend Matthew "Pope" Harrison. That's a story of unintended consequences. Back in 2010, things were looking a little bleak, since the liberal-moderate coalition had nominal control of the synod bureaucracy. There were a bunch of brewing problems, including the "Ablaze" initiative, the Benke crisis at Yankee Stadium (following 9/11), the cancelation of Issues, Etc. during holy week for no reason, plus growing problems with "lay minsters" and such. It was during this period that ELDONA and others were splintering off from the LCMS.

Anyway, the liberals had ginned up a big plan (hugely controversial) to reorganize the bureaucracy to concentrate power (particularly in the hands of the synod president). A lot of it passed. But then when the elections came around, Harrison beat Kieschnick (the liberal incumbent). Oops! Funny how liberals are all the same everywhere, never imagining they could ever lose power…

Blogger Unknown October 30, 2018 5:25 PM  

@61 John,
I played the video of the announcement of Harrison's election over and over. Kieschnick was stunned. He was expecting them to announce his name and was standing at the podium basking in his upcoming glory, just to have Harrison's name announced instead. That look of shocked horror and despair...priceless.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 30, 2018 5:40 PM  

@62 Unkown

The only video I can find starts with the screen showing the vote tallies as the final vote comes in, and then Kieschnick's reaction. What do you have that shows Kieschnick before the vote tally is announced?

Blogger Unknown October 30, 2018 6:40 PM  

@63 Dirk,
A friend sent it to me during the convention in 2010. I don't think I saved it. Even if I did, it was 4 computers ago. The video you have seen is the only one I can find on line in the short time I looked today. He just had a pompous air of supreme confidence as he MC'd the short run up to the vote and results, then that sour ass dire look after tallies are announced. I knew some of the skullduggery that had led up to the convention, and it was sweet payback to see the Liberals thwarted. I was also involved in lobbying for Issues Etc. to be brought back.

Blogger Beautiful Villain October 31, 2018 1:08 AM  

Box, do you have a video or esay explaining Christianity or why you believe?

Blogger Unknown October 31, 2018 2:10 PM  

@18 @30 @32 @34 @40 @45 @51
“Convergence”, in the modern usage, is the aligning of what was previously holy, right and just to the profane and demonic. The Roman church, and by extension all Western confessions proceeding therefrom, began its convergence at the time of the (not so) Great Schism, when the Western church left Orthodoxy. The loss of right-belief (Ortho-doxy) led to the Reformation which did not result in a return to Orthodoxy. Schism begets schism and now there are now an uncountable number of denominations with all of their origins being in the schismatic West. There was no need for Reformation/Counter-Reformation/Denominationalism in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
While some denominations (LCMS, OPC) have resisted the more modern and brazen attempts at moral convergence, the historical context for the beginning of convergence is the break from Orthodoxy.
Once again:
@19 The only "non-converged" Christian church is Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Disagree? Prove me wrong.
@36 The church I attend is not converged, and is not EO. QED.
non-Q.E.D. See above.

Blogger John October 31, 2018 2:40 PM  

@62 I played the video of the announcement of Harrison's election over and over. Kieschnick was stunned. He was expecting them to announce his name and was standing at the podium basking in his upcoming glory, just to have Harrison's name announced instead. That look of shocked horror and despair...priceless.

I don't remember if I saw that. But yeah. Oops! At this point we just have to wait until all the old liberals die off. Say another few decades.

@66 the historical context for the beginning of convergence is the break from Orthodoxy.

/eyeroll
Gammas...

Blogger An Orthodox Christian October 31, 2018 9:18 PM  

@67 /eyeroll
Gammas...
Your reply is either name-calling at me or ad hominem against Orthodoxy which, according to Graham, are the two lowest forms in his Hierarchy of Disagreement. Such might be expected from a midwit, but on this blog? While most here are capable of independent research, I’ll throw a bone in to help: “Luther Had His Chance”
http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/tca_luther.aspx
Your initial reaction to Orthodoxy is not too far removed from mine. It took 5 years of “eyeroll-ing” and research to break through my Western Protestant prejudice. Best wishes on your journey – should you decide in true Alpha manner, to accept it.

Blogger Dirk Manly November 01, 2018 9:16 PM  

This is just calling it as it is.

A long time ago, on http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/ Vox identified and described 7 personality types.

In alphabetical order, they are

Alpha
Beta
Delta
Gamma
Lambda
Omega
Sigma

What YOU are calling "name-calling or ad hominem" is just observable fact.

Gammas tend to be those in high school who you might call "involuntary loners". Above average intelligence Ipossibly high intelligence, but usually not... although high intelligence people have a higher likelikhood of being gammas than those who are merely "above average"), tend to read more than playing games and therefore developing a deficiency in learning social games and social skills. Most always, they never played any team sports -- so they never learned the concept of teamwork, and they carry a HUGE grudge against those who were more popular than themselves, especially those in of "mere" average intelligence who spent the time learning how to fit in, and be a team player. Their resentment about this results in LOTS of projection about their own butthurt. For example, by when some person B accomplishes something which leads to some fleeting and faddish popularity, and other person C criticizes B. They then project THEIR feeling of jealousy towards B onto C, because if THEY were criticizing someone who is popular (fleeting and faddish OR NOT), the primary motivatioh would be jealousy. Always stuck in their own head, and thinking that they are among the smartest in the world, they just can't even imagine that there are other possible motivations.

The truly "smartest people" tend to be either Alphas, Deltas, or Omegas. Omegas become so detached from society, they don't criticize anybody -- they have enough enemies and don't want to make any more. The deltas are hard workers, and criticize poor work. The Alphas are leaders, and for them, criticism is a form of social jousting. The Gamma thinks of himself as an unrecgnized "Secret King", and for them, most criticism is, like the Alpha, "social jousting"... except while their opponent tends to ride a horse, carries a wooden lance, and wears metal armor, the Gamma is riding a burro, and both is armor and armor are hastily prepapred, and made of flimsy cardboard and duct-tape.

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