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Wednesday, October 03, 2018

They can't say I didn't warn them

Gab is discovering that its firm and unshakable commitment to free speech - which is to say its foolish decision to freely permit unrestrained libel and pornography - is simply not tenable:
In the last two weeks both of our payment processors have threatened to or have frozen our service. This is why we are crowdfunding from You, The People, to build our own free speech-friendly infrastructure.

Paypal did not terminate our service--yet. They threatened to a few weeks ago over a meme from 2012 called "Navy Seal Copypasta." They took the meme literally like idiots who know nothing at all about basic internet culture. We refused to censor the meme because the context and intent were very clear. We have not heard back since we told them this 11 days ago and our account is still active as of now.

Stripe, our other payment processor, is demanding quote:

"Modification of your terms of service to indicate that adult or illegal content cannot be streamed through GabTV or otherwise distributed through the Gab service. The implementation of reasonable controls to ensure that no adult or illegal content is being streamed through GabTV or otherwise available on the Gab service."
You may recall that I long ago warned Andrew Torba he was absolutely going to have to rein in the slanderers and the trolls, and not because Spacebunny and I were being targeted by the Alt-Reich nasties. Instead, he very publicly chose to embrace them in the name of Free Speech. So, I have no sympathy for Gab whatsoever; unlike others whose accounts have been terminated by the payment processors for dubious reasons, Gab has been in open and avowed violation of their terms of service almost from the start.

Hell, I quit using Gab for precisely the same reason that Stripe is now refusing them service. They were refusing to moderate photoshopped images of gang rape, just to give one example. And as I said at the time, Torba is temperamentally unsuited to run a business and is totally unready for prime time. His childish response to Paypal and Stripe again demonstrates both.

It's somewhat of a mystery why conservatives are willing to throw away hundreds of millions of dollars on political campaigns, but refuse to simply build a viable alternative infrastructure. Don't whine, cry, bitch, or complain about these things, roll up your sleeves and help build the alternative platforms and organizations!

Labels: ,

72 Comments:

Blogger James Dixon October 03, 2018 7:13 PM  

A service I had never heard of called snippy.com has been advertising on Buck Sexton's show. Since they already have apps in the apps stores, I'm assuming they're being funded by the usual sources and grabbing all of your information for them.

Gab is useful, but I really don't expect it to be around all that long. A perfect contrast is Torba's reaction to this compared to your reaction the Amazon's rebel flag rules.

Blogger SJ October 03, 2018 7:14 PM  

Never been to gab but I took a tour of voat after the latest round of censorship on reddit. It was filled with childish immature morons spamming vulgarity in every single thread. Well over half the content I viewed was simple vulgarity with "muh free speech" tacked on.

Blogger SemiSpook37 October 03, 2018 7:17 PM  

I left Gab at the same time VD did for pretty much the same reason. The whole onslaught of Stormtards as well as Torba’s insistence on “muh free speech” was too much to bear. Then again, that Lackawanna County mindset has never been the best at properly framing and addressing problems. For as lefty as the crew was who made “The Office” here in the US, their depiction of that area of PA was surprisingly on point.

Blogger CoolHand October 03, 2018 7:20 PM  

I've been working with some people who are trying to break into this space, and to call it "difficult" is not really correct. "All but impossible" almost gets it, but not quite.

The rules and regulations are written such that if you're not already IN the banking industry, you're not getting in there now or in the future.

PayPal et al skirted their defenses, but like all good giant businesses, they dutifully pulled up the ladder behind themselves so that none could follow after. The the banks/gov't (one in the same when talking about this shit) came in and mortared over the gaps that the upstarts snuck through, so again, none may follow after.

This is a damned hard nut to crack. I don't say that to suggest that we quit or give up/give in, but rather to maybe rally people to push their politicians to render some aid here (in the form of regulation reform at the very least).

We're looking at some other ways through the tangled forest, but even the best options are going to require more than just hard work and time, we're going to need some pressure applied at the right places and times, and no matter what else happens, it's going to take a lot of money.

I don't know what the solution is exactly, but at this point I'm pretty sure that it's not going to be something that one guy (or even one small group of guys) can do on their own.

The nut is just too big to crack with one hammer.

Blogger DJT October 03, 2018 7:26 PM  

In a nutshell, this is exactly where our society now finds itself.

Free speech absolutism is ideal when people have the temperament—or rather, the moral infrastructure—to censor themselves and not spew their feces all over the place.

But since people can't seem to JUST BE NORMAL, the powers that be have to enact rules and enforce penalties to keep order.

Basically, most people today can't handle freedom responsibly and don't deserve it. It's sad that Gab's potential has been squandered for the sake of antisocial retards.

Blogger Frank Lee October 03, 2018 7:35 PM  

I tried hard to migrate to Gab when it first came out. But I gave up.

I think the only way a conservative alternative to Twitter would work is by being very firm against pornography, at minimum, and come up with some fair applied but tight rules about libel. The notion that all speech should be free is unworkable.

Blogger Secular Blasphemy October 03, 2018 7:45 PM  

Gab's response seems reasonable. Namely, they're already censoring what's being asked of them:

Both of these make no sense because we already do not allow any illegal content and take action against it. Further, any adult content must be marked as NSFW (Not Safe For Work) per our user guidelines, which is a similar feature that Reddit and others have for adult content on their site. Stripe has no problem working with Facebook, Pinterest, and Squarespace, all of which certainly have adult content if you go looking for it.

I don't think it's Torba's refusal to be reasonable which is causing the problem here. These are the same groups that denied service to Freestartr, among others.

Either everyone is making the exact same mistake, or Paypal and Stripe don't give a shit about "the rules" and are instead looking for excuses to yank service. And if they want to do that, they'll find a way.

The only option is to give in entirely, in which case Gab will quickly become New Twitter, or stand and fight.

Blogger John Morris October 03, 2018 7:53 PM  

The clue here is Paypal and Stripe are hitting them almost at teh same time and with entirely different complaints. There is no change gab could make to its operations other than adopting the FAGT (Facebook, Apple, Google, Twitter) ban list.

Don't let your personal problems with Torba cloud your judgement on this, this is another attack on everyone to the right of Jeff Flake. The same banhammer is going to remove your own ability to do business on the Internet soon enough if a solution isn't quickly found.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 03, 2018 7:54 PM  

"They took the meme literally like idiots"

So as far as he can tell, Paypal decided NOT to kill his account over it, and he reacts by calling them idiots? I'm all for being a dick, but that seems like asking for trouble.

Blogger qualitycontrol October 03, 2018 8:03 PM  

I don't see the right being allowed to build a competitor to the banking system. The system that is going to kill every try at building an alternative platform. Taking power and breaking the lefts monopoly over information and money is the only way I see a competitive right.

Blogger Nate73 October 03, 2018 8:06 PM  

@SJ: Is there no upvoting on voat or thresholding like in reddit?

Blogger CoolHand October 03, 2018 8:07 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger James Dixon October 03, 2018 8:08 PM  

> I don't see the right being allowed to build a competitor to the banking system.

The money is out there to buy out one of the smaller banks. There are a lot of regional banks in the country. The problem is the lock Visa and Mastercard have on the credit card market. I don't know if the money is there to buy Discover Card, and I'm fairly certain it's not enough to buy American Express.
and probably Discover Card.

Blogger Blunt Force October 03, 2018 8:10 PM  

Just saw this interesting new platform discussed on Red Ice. It's called Free Zoxee. The owner says that Nazis,Commies and Muslims are automatically banned so likely won't generate much enthusiasm from those who love to troll the left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9mfU2Wf0M

Blogger CoolHand October 03, 2018 8:10 PM  

BTW, if anyone is looking for a payment processor that isn't dependent on leftist whims, my guy is taking on new clients now: Patriot Hosting

The more people we get on the train, the quicker we get to our own banking system.

Blogger mgh October 03, 2018 8:16 PM  

Can anyone explain how the commercial porn sites remain up? Or is that just proof that this all an arbitrary SJW attack?

Blogger Blunt Force October 03, 2018 8:16 PM  

CoolHand wrote:

The nut is just too big to crack with one hammer.


Anyone can compete in a free market. Have you applied for billions in government subsidies, yet .

Discover Where Corporations are Getting Taxpayer Assistance Across the United States

Blogger tz October 03, 2018 8:17 PM  

I don't remember much "generic if you don't police X the SJWs will get you", but lots of "I will sicc the Legal Legion of Evil on you for defamation per se". I can go back and reread the posts if I misinterpreted. How are the lawsuits from the LLoE going?

Nor did he "embrace them" - but if you believe in free speech you tolerate many things.

And if it wasn't those things you know it would be something else. The SJWs first decide, THEN look for any excuse. I'm not even sure what Stripe is talking about - it is more of the "remove whatever content is bad" as opposed to even a SINGLE specific example.

Basically, CENSOR OR ELSE!.

Maybe some are unwilling to build an alternative infrastructure because they will be attacked by the right as well as the left. I can understand disagreement with Torba and you and he going separate ways, but not so much the attacks even of the unwise. You can more easily convince a fool by quiet withdrawal in disagreement waiting for ultimate evidence than by declaring yourself an enemy in the middle of a mutual battle.

Blogger seeingsights October 03, 2018 8:23 PM  

Stripe says: do not allow illegal content. That seems very reasonable to me.
The outlawed forms of communication in the US SHOULD be outlawed: child pornography, threats of violence, defamation etc.
Stripe says: do not allow adult content. If Stripe wants to be family family, I get that. But I wonder if Stripe interacts with Twitter, which has accounts solely devoted to adult porn.
Jeez, what is so difficult with a social media company following this simple principle: allow communication to the fullest extent under the law.

Blogger Dire Badger October 03, 2018 8:27 PM  

Traditionally, Nerds have never been conservative. Maybe not full on SJW liberals, but for much of MY time in the industry they certainly were always heavily globalist/leftist/tolerance-based ("The internet has no race or sex...").

This is slowly changing, but you cannot build the platforms without the Talent, and right now the majority of the Talent is just trying to hide from their own 'allies' rather than fight back.

Blogger CitizenOutkast October 03, 2018 8:28 PM  

"Don't whine, cry, bitch, or complain about these things, roll up your sleeves and help build the alternative platforms and organizations!"

But if they do that, they won't get that desperately desired pat on the head from the left. Talking to most conservatives about things like "muh meltin' pot" leave me viewing them as whipped puppies licking the left's hand for approval.

Blogger SJ October 03, 2018 8:36 PM  

@Nate73,

There is but really who other then alt-retards are going to stick around a set of forums where half of all posts consist of nothing but a stream of racial slurs that looks like a brain damaged 12 year old strung together? I certainly wasn't.

Blogger depth October 03, 2018 8:42 PM  

Almost all of the big names that signed up with Gab in the beginning are now gone. People aren't going to join because of "free speech" as much as they join to follow interesting people. Torba has repeatedly shown he doesn't care about attracting stars to his platform.

Those familiar with Thomas Wictor know he got booted from Twitter last week. He's resurfaced at Gab and his introduction proves to me Torba has no clue. Wictor was having all kinds of problems with the interface and Torba (in true millenial style) told him this:

"It’s something new and you need to spend some time to learn it. ...if you aren’t willing to spend 5 minutes learning then 🤷‍♂️"

This is how the CEO of a social media service talks to someone that could really open doors for his site. It's been two years since Gab was founded and Torba is still fumbling around, running his neck at every problem, real or imagined.

Blogger tz October 03, 2018 8:44 PM  

I need to add one "help build...".

I am probably one of the best proofreaders and I happen to be one of the few LaTeX experts. But reading your requests, you would not pay me, even giving me a fractional percent of the profits or revenues for anything I worked to improve if I understand your blegs.

Why should I bother? If even you won't pay a less than minimum wage "gig economy" income to someone who is both capable and would desire to help build the alternatives why do you wonder at the lack of support? Even when someone else does so imperfectly you attack and trash them - how is the Infogalactic chat, forums, or whatever is supposed to be better than twitter and facebook coming? I'm not trolling because you said you were working on it. If Gab falls, is your alternative you said you were working on ready?

I assume you are paying the Arkhaven illustrators and colorists and the rest. But assume if you wished them to volunteer and work for nothing. Would I have a single comic?

Soros pays for his fleshbots to screech at Flake.

Torba is your rival but not your enemy. You should know by your own experience that your approach was doomed to simply provoke him instead of establishing a master - student relationship. I think you enjoy combat too much so tend toward it even when it is counterproductive.

Winning (think Trump) would be to have Torba listen to you. Instead it ended with alienation where everyone lost.

Blogger tz October 03, 2018 8:46 PM  

Adult content in the age when 3 year olds can demand drugs because they are transgender?

Blogger Phelps October 03, 2018 8:54 PM  

Modification of your terms of service to indicate that adult or illegal content cannot be streamed through GabTV or otherwise distributed through the Gab service.

This is the real bugbear. Adult content puts gab in the space of an "pornography business." Porn sites are considered in finance to be High Risk CC transactions, because of the high number of chargebacks. Either people use stolen cards to buy their way onto the porn site, or a wife sees the charge on the CC bill and the husband Dindu Nuffin and calls up demanding a charge back.

So because of that, any business that is marked "porn" is charged high risk fees, and only certain (expensive) processors will handle it in the first place, because of the risk. You can blah blah about twitter all you want, but the fact of the matter is that twitter is still a publicly traded company 22 BILLION dollar market cap, and gab is crowdfunded startup with no VC.

Gab is considered to be high risk by the banks. Twitter is not.

It's that simple. Get rid of the porn (NSFW tags just make it obvious that you ARE allowing porn) and the CC will allow them back.

Blogger VD October 03, 2018 8:57 PM  

Nor did he "embrace them" - but if you believe in free speech you tolerate many things.

Bullshit. He very proudly embraced and defended them. He very openly mocked me for "crying" about pornographic gang rape images of my wife that he refused to take down... images of the very woman whose help he begged for in order to get in touch with me in the first place.

I think less of Torba than I do of SJWs. They're merely enemies.

And if it wasn't those things you know it would be something else.

Water is wet too. Gab is a slow-motion trainwreck and the only surprise is that it hasn't happened yet.

Blogger Lovekraft October 03, 2018 8:58 PM  

I can imagine a site like gab being blackmailed by someone threatening to submit content that would get it shut down. There are always ways to get past the screening.

I left gab with Vox when Torba himself took a shot at me (after posing a legitimate take on the feud and suggestion for reconciliation). Seems like forever.

Blogger Quicksilver75 October 03, 2018 9:02 PM  

Gab has some solid content providers but yes, they are going to have to established some sane groundrules to hamstring the nutcases & Feds who seem intent on crashing the platform. Minds & the new FreeZoxee may emerge as the winners here

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 03, 2018 9:02 PM  

That seems reasonable. Twitter has always allowed porn. Pretty hardcore porn, as well.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 03, 2018 9:03 PM  

Exactly. This has nothing to do w/Gab or Torba, tbh.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants October 03, 2018 9:05 PM  

Why not just block those ppl and move on? I did, and have had ZERO issues.

Blogger Justin Bailey October 03, 2018 9:08 PM  

I left Gab around the same time as Vox. Seeing Torba cozy up to a mob of screeching alt-retards really rubbed me the wrong way. Letting people like that run your site by virtue of refusing to police anything isn't a recipe for success.

Blogger VD October 03, 2018 9:10 PM  

I am probably one of the best proofreaders and I happen to be one of the few LaTeX experts. But reading your requests, you would not pay me, even giving me a fractional percent of the profits or revenues for anything I worked to improve if I understand your blegs.

Of course not. Proofreading, while nice, is totally irrelevant with regards to sales and generates zero income. That's why Baen and other publishers don't even bother editing the books they publish anymore.

And keeping track of the fractional profits is far more trouble and expense than it's worth. Especially since two-thirds of the stuff isn't actually profitable. That's why we're publishing less and less fiction from new authors. It's simply not worth the effort to put it in print.

Torba is your rival but not your enemy.

He's not my rival. And he is not my enemy; I am willing to talk to my enemies and make peace with them.

You should know by your own experience that your approach was doomed to simply provoke him instead of establishing a master - student relationship.

No, I had no idea. I made a perfectly reasonable request of him of the sort that I have granted to literally dozens of commenters here.

Blogger VFM #7191 October 03, 2018 9:10 PM  

John Morris wrote:The clue here is Paypal and Stripe are hitting them almost at teh same time and with entirely different complaints. There is no change gab could make to its operations other than adopting the FAGT (Facebook, Apple, Google, Twitter) ban list.

Don't let your personal problems with Torba cloud your judgement on this, this is another attack on everyone to the right of Jeff Flake. The same banhammer is going to remove your own ability to do business on the Internet soon enough if a solution isn't quickly found.


Agreed. Not to say GAB doesn't have its problems (I no longer use the service myself) and not to say that Torba hasn't taken his share of hard-headed missteps, but these payment processors and other leftist orgs are out for blood against any right-wing platform they think is getting too big for its britches.

Would Roosh still be on Amazon if he were just a little more reasonable? Would Hatreon and Freestartr still be up if they were just dotted their I's and crossed their T's a little more carefully? Of course not.

Blogger Doug Cranmer October 03, 2018 9:11 PM  

LaTeX expert?

Blogger Doug Cranmer October 03, 2018 9:12 PM  

one of the few?

Blogger VD October 03, 2018 9:29 PM  

Don't let your personal problems with Torba cloud your judgement on this, this is another attack on everyone to the right of Jeff Flake.

Please. I've been warning everyone about this for years. This just shows there is a silver lining to be found in every dark cloud.

Blogger DJ | AMDG October 03, 2018 9:29 PM  

I believe Roosh would still be on Amazon had he published under the protective umbrella of a Castalia House or other similarly experience organization. He’s off Amazon because he’s a lone wolf and does not have the finances to hire good representation. With a Castalia House or similar partner he could have more successfully navigated around this obstacle.

Blogger Matthew McDaniel October 03, 2018 9:36 PM  

i didnt realize Torba hosted lewd images of Spacebunny. If anything Vox has shown himself to be a very restrained person. I’d be ticked.

Blogger David The Good October 03, 2018 9:37 PM  

I started out on Gab, attracted over a thousand followers and even made a custom Gab social media icon for my main gardening site. When I saw what they allowed to happen with "free speech" filth on Vox's page after his dustup with Torba, I quit. I would have continued to bring in new people if they were reasonable; however, I don't want to invite my readers into a dumpster.

Blogger Ransom Smith October 03, 2018 9:39 PM  

Alarm bells rang for me with Torba's obsession with mobile apps.
He didn't focus on building a good platform and a mobile page. It was all about the app.

Blogger VD October 03, 2018 9:42 PM  

If anything Vox has shown himself to be a very restrained person.

I seriously considered posting the exact same images, but with his fiance's face in the place of Spacebunny's, just to see how long it took to prove him a complete hypocrite. But then I realized that she had done nothing to merit such treatment.

If you wish to support pondscum like Torba, that's on your conscience. I just ignore both him and Gab, but that showed up in my email today.

Blogger SJ October 03, 2018 10:05 PM  

Why do that when I can just not ever go back to that website?

Blogger John October 03, 2018 10:14 PM  

I was aware there were offensive images re: Spacebunny. I was not aware of their specific nature. Libertarian ideologues, particularly the non-Christian ones, are cancer. I think it is safe to say that all non-Christian ideologues are cancer.

Blogger S. Thermite October 03, 2018 10:24 PM  

If you wish to support pondscum like Torba, that's on your conscience. I just ignore both him and Gab, but that showed up in my email today.

Heh, saw the same message in my inbox right before seeing this post. Gave them a one-time donation back when they were just startling out, which eventually allowed me to try their doomed iOS app while it was still in development. What a waste.

Only donation Gab got from me today was a click of the unsubscribe button. If you wanna throw away money crowdfunding losers, there are single moms on GoFundMe...and at least their offspring has a chance of survival.

Blogger bob October 03, 2018 10:26 PM  

43. VD October 03, 2018 9:42 PM
But then I realized that she had done nothing to merit such treatment.


well, she IS dating Torba.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare October 03, 2018 11:00 PM  

Apparently they're married now. Google is a terrifyingly potent thing...I found their freaking bed bath and beyond *gift registry* for God's sake! Also, she's using his last name on Gab.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare October 03, 2018 11:02 PM  

Oh, her name (per Andrew Torba's Medium article) is Emily.

Blogger Sagramore October 03, 2018 11:04 PM  

@4 @13 Coincidentally, I just shredded my Amex yesterday due to horrible customer service and a CSRs lack of understanding about one party consent jurisdictions. (You claim you can record me, but get uppity if I record you?)

I'm sure if you had a few million you could try worming your way into the Channel Islands or Nevis, but I've seen unbelievable consolidation even in the credit union industry. (British Columbia has a robust sector since they aren't as finicky about taking grey market cannabis trade money; this will change later this month I am told.)

Blogger Azure Amaranthine October 03, 2018 11:15 PM  

"Talking to most conservatives about things like "muh meltin' pot" leave me viewing them as whipped puppies licking the left's hand for approval."

Stockholm syndrome works on everyone to one degree or another. Let's make it work for us.

"Torba is your rival but not your enemy. You should know by your own experience that your approach was doomed to simply provoke him instead of establishing a master - student relationship. I think you enjoy combat too much so tend toward it even when it is counterproductive."

No one wants a chimp with an automatic shotgun as an ally, because anything in the vicinity of that chimp is going to wind up FUBAR. Torba's communication (dis)ability and refusal to acquire discipline is the professional equivalent of a chimp with an automatic shotgun and explosive diarrhea.

It's not even reasonably safe, it's not pretty, and nothing screams weakness like indiscipline and a hair trigger. People don't follow weakness, for obvious reasons.

Blogger Jill Domschot October 03, 2018 11:39 PM  

He's just as unprofessional sounding as he ever was. Why I lost interest in Gab a long time ago.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother October 03, 2018 11:39 PM  

People who ask why Vox would get pissed about SB showing up like that on Gab are like SJC Democrats pretending to not understand why Kavanagh came at them like a spider monkey during the hearing last week.

Blogger Lazarus October 03, 2018 11:53 PM  

Obama mocked Trump at the White House Correspondents Dinner in 2011.

Trump is exacting his revenge by excelling as President. With maybe more specific actions to follow.

Lotta time to collect that pound of flesh.

Blogger bob October 04, 2018 12:38 AM  

OT
Pope Francis annuls the marriage of Joseph and Mary

http://2m2l2d2d.blogspot.com/2018/10/bergoglio-annuls-marriage-of-joseph-and.html

Blogger Calven October 04, 2018 12:40 AM  

Never tired of failing.

Blogger GammaCatch October 04, 2018 1:17 AM  

The Silencers must be Silenced or they will do just that. There are hills of Culture/Philosophy to crash and burn on if there is no victory possible due do {Insert wiped out Freedom Movement here}. But this is, yet again, not that. At least in the USA. VD said something simple that is yet another Christian Proof that, when ignored, leads to the destruction of Western Culture; Evil Must Be Fought and Christianity is the ONLY Religion that has that aim in the Philosophy. Thus, as goes Christendom, so goes the understanding of the Moral Good of The Fight. If everyone is equal than nobody is and if everyone can speak than no one can.

These tech guys did not get that piece of Christian Philosophy growing up, and so now you get the purity virtue spiral that sucked the Libertarians down before I knew they were gone.

Blogger Lance E October 04, 2018 1:19 AM  

When I left Gab, which was a long time ago, it was a raging dumpster fire. I'm sure it hasn't improved since then.

Like most liberals, Torba probably believes in the "marketplace of ideas" nonsense - that the problem facing America is not bad ideas, merely a lack of openness to ideas. But content is still king, and nobody wants to root around in the dirt for hours in order to find a few shiny pebbles.

Every successful platform that I'm aware of starts with high quality and then, optionally, goes downmarket afterward. Even Twitter had an implicit (or perhaps explicit?) goal of attracting celebrities to the platform. Facebook started out with well-educated college students. These appeal to liberals, not conservatives, but the principle is the same no matter who your target audience is.

Sure, "free speech" will initially attract some folks who just want a soapbox to shout on, but what lasting value does that create? It's exclusivity, not inclusivity, that makes a community worth belonging to. As soon as you listen to the inclusionists, you fail.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 04, 2018 2:03 AM  

@tz
gab is an absolute shitshow. Torbas problem is not his deducation to free speech. His problem is his deep emotional need to be the center of attention at the center of the biggest clusterf*** he can build.

Blogger S. Thermite October 04, 2018 2:29 AM  

Sure, "free speech" will initially attract some folks who just want a soapbox to shout on, but what lasting value does that create? It's exclusivity, not inclusivity, that makes a community worth belonging to. As soon as you listen to the inclusionists, you fail.

What you say about exclusivity being important for community is largely true, but I think it's a category error to apply it to a social media platform like Twitter or an intended replacement like Gab. The utility of Twitter was the open expression of ideas by everyone, internationally, and especially those I disagreed with. Not out of any "all ideas have value" or "diversity is our strength" cuckery, but because it allowed the opportunity my own "community" to expose, re-tweet, lambaste, and verbally spar with SJWs and such while encouraging each other. And occasionally, I would see something I disagreed with which was still truth, and I was obliged to change my views. I can't think of any specific examples related to Twitter posts at this moment, but they'd be like Vox's initial scorn of Jordan Peterson....hard for me to swallow at first but eventually I saw the light. Gab didn't have that...it was just a few people who somewhat agreed with me and didn't have any enemies on the forum to attack so it was just boring.

Exclusivity is John Scalzi's ban-hammering on his blog. Ironically, it's also the direction Twitter took when they started progressively banning right-wingers I followed, the last straw being their ban of Spacebunny. Twitter could allowed 10,000 pedophiles posting and I wouldn't have quit (better to have them self-expose), but when they started excluding right-wingers is when I left.

I do feel a little more out-of-touch after closing my Twitter account, but I don't feel any loss at all from quitting Gab.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 04, 2018 2:44 AM  

The utility of Twitter et al for most people is the ability to follow a bunch of sources they agree with and be fed a constant stream of things they want to hear. An "open exchange of ideas" is the last thing most want from it. They even added the ability to mute people so you can make sure you don't hear their ideas without them knowing it.

I'm a big fan of 4chan, which is about as open an exchange of ideas as you can get. It accomplishes that by having a strict moderation policy about certain content, so it doesn't pretend to offer full freedom of speech. I also wouldn't recommend it to 99% of the population, because you need a certain "just let it go" temperament to ignore the offensive stuff as well as the constant shilling and gaslighting. I don't think most people who claim to want unrestricted free speech have any idea what that means.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums October 04, 2018 3:57 AM  

Ralph from TheRalphRetord held a sort of all-star Killstream to raise money for St. Jude's through YouTube's superchats for good function which donate 100$ of the donation to charity without taking any cut. By the end about 7k watchers raised >28k$.

Andrew Torba was one of the people invited. In the first hour of the stream Devon Tracy (some left-winger) got into a holocaust debate with Mark Collett (a right-winger). To put it in context, Devon Tracy was the only one there (including the audience) which did not qualify under ADL rules as a "holocaust denier".

While this was happening Torba left the stream without saying a word. All he got to say on the stream was "hello".

I guess the line of free-speech absolutism is drawn at a debate on whether or not the nazis built a roller-coaster of death.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 04, 2018 8:23 AM  

Doug Cranmer wrote:LaTeX expert?

LaTeX is a markup language for typesetting. All math books and most scholarly journals and apparently Castalia House books are typeset using it.

It is based on Donald Knuth's TeX.

Doug Cranmer wrote:one of the few?

If you've done time in grad school or a math department, you're at least comfy with LaTeX. LaTeX and emacs with the appropriate modes are the best way to write structured documents, and the only way to typeset math.

Blogger MacFaergus October 04, 2018 9:12 AM  

Without the ability to offend, there is no freespeech! You Sir are a whiney baby. Grow up!

Blogger August October 04, 2018 10:14 AM  

It has been disappointing to me that various open source/free software attempts at decentralized platforms haven't worked out- well, at least not yet. Of course, I think Silicon Valley venture capital has gone a long way to subvert any project that looks like it can be turned into an IPO.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 04, 2018 10:49 AM  

@16

"Can anyone explain how the commercial porn sites remain up? Or is that just proof that this all an arbitrary SJW attack?"

Are you seriously implying that you would expect (((bankers))) to NOT cooperate with (((commercial porn producers))) ???

Blogger James Dixon October 04, 2018 11:27 AM  

> Coincidentally, I just shredded my Amex yesterday due to horrible customer service and a CSRs lack of understanding about one party consent jurisdictions.

I have an AmEx card because Schwab gave me one when I opened my account with them. Otherwise I wouldn't, as my experience mirrors yours. I used to have a AmEx gold card. Their processing was down one day and we got a runaround for over 24 hours as to why our purchase was denied at a vendor. They didn't admit it was an outage until the next day. We declined to renew it when it expired, as I don't like being lied to.

> Torba's communication (dis)ability and refusal to acquire discipline is the professional equivalent of a chimp with an automatic shotgun and explosive diarrhea.

I wish I could disagree with that assessment, but I honestly can't.

Blogger Lance E October 04, 2018 12:18 PM  

S. Thermite wrote:Exclusivity is John Scalzi's ban-hammering on his blog.

Exclusivity is also Vox's ban-hammering on his blog. Do you want the shills, alt-retards, "what about meeee" crybabies and concern trolls here?

Exclusivity is a necessary ingredient for quality. You make the same mistake that all liberals make, which is confusing the practical with the abstract. John Scalzi's blog doesn't suck because it's moderated, it sucks because it's moderated (and written) by John Scalzi.

Blogger GammaCatch October 04, 2018 12:59 PM  

58. 68. Lance E

Spot on.

Blogger CYGNUS FACETIOUS October 04, 2018 1:33 PM  

gabai, or shamash (literally: servant/to a rabbi):
verb: to serve as gabai
noun: The officer of the synagogue who determines which congregants are to receive Torah honors at the service.
noun: The (lay) person who calls Jews to say blessings over the Torah reading and follows along with the Torah reading to correct any mistakes.

Gab glowed in the dark from the outset. Never accept content ghettoization and deplatforming, or you'll be put to pasture out on a free speech zone reservation indefinitely at some point.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 04, 2018 2:51 PM  

@26 Phelps
It's that simple. Get rid of the porn (NSFW tags just make it obvious that you ARE allowing porn) and the CC will allow them back.
---

I think something else is going on. GabTV continuously streams Infowars live .

This is probably just more of the kill Infowars that has been ongoing for several weeks.

Bonus: Gab is a place SJWs already hate so yeah jump them.

Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Blogger Up from the pond October 04, 2018 7:21 PM  

I left Gab when the Nigerians invaded it, because Torba waived the verification rule for them. Unlike everyone else, they weren't required to show photo ID. Don't put Pondscum the Principled in charge of the national border.

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