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Sunday, October 28, 2018

They can't say I didn't warn them

In addition to being cut off by Paypal, Gab is down again. A number of readers have emailed to tell me about this Twitter post:

Breaking: @joyent, Gab’s new hosting provider, has just pulled our hosting service. They have given us until 9am on Monday to find a solution. Gab will likely be down for weeks because of this. Working on solutions. We will never give up on defending free speech for all people.

If you recall, the original cause of my break with Gab and Andrew Torba was due to his absolute refusal to eliminate the criminal and pornographic material that infested the site. I told him that it wasn't about me or my preference for not being libeled, it was something that he was going to have to do if he wanted Gab to remain operational. I even offered to design a game-style moderation system that would have eliminated any need for an Orwellian Trust & Safety Council of the sort that Twitter, Facebook, and Indiegogo presently utilize.

And we all know how that ended. Instead of listening to me, Torba responded by calling me a crybaby for protesting his free-speech defense of the Alt-Retards who were not only libeling me, but also posting images of a woman being gang-raped by Africans with my wife's head photoshopped onto it on Gab.

So, I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for either Gab or Torba. I was confident that Torba's stubbornness, volatility, and lack of professionalism was eventually going to sink the site, and it's more than a little appropriate that it should be Gab's connection to the very Alt-Retards he defended so assiduously that is proving to be its primary vulnerability to those seeking to destroy it.

Regardless, the entire Right is going to have to divorce itself from the techno-Left, and it will have to do so sooner rather than later. A number of people are already working on solutions to everything from the domain registrations to the payment processors, but in the meantime, get off Twitter, get off Facebook, get off Wikipedia, and start using alternatives such as Oneway, Idka, and Infogalactic. We can, and we will, rout around these artificial barriers being imposed by the converged technology giants, but it's going to take time, patience, and effort. And most of all, it's going to require the willingness to actually leave the enemy sites.

In that vein, it's important to understand the SJW's Code of Conduct offensive in the Open Source space is intended to deny us the ability to do that. But remember, they can only win if you give up and submit.

Labels: , ,

119 Comments:

Blogger Mark Stoval October 28, 2018 8:14 AM  

As you said back then, this had to happen. I wonder if Andrew Torba now realizes you were right.

Blogger McChuck October 28, 2018 8:45 AM  

I wholeheartedly support the concept, but Infogalactic has a result for only about one in five searches I do. It apparently doesn't pull from Wikipedia any more.

From the CBS news clip about the evil, vile, disgusting den of free speech that is Gab - "If they don't censor people, that's allowing repression." They really can't hear themselves talk.

Blogger Mad Italian October 28, 2018 8:48 AM  

Speaking of code of conduct...SQLite developer caved on CoC.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/tech-community-outraged-after-sqlite-founder-adopts-christian-code-of-conduct/

In response to some of the criticism, Hipp at first made revisions to his CoC — adding an enforcement provision and making it clear that users were not bound by the religious aspects of the Benedictine Rule. After further consideration, he decided to change the name of his CoC to a "Code of Ethics" and adopted a new CoC to satisfy critics who were demanding one.

"The diplomatic solution is to rename the 'Code of Conduct' to be a 'Code of Ethics' and then install a pre-packaged and widely approved Code of Conduct that does meet the modern technical requirements in place of the old," he said. "In this way, those who are very particular about what a Code of Conduct should and should not say are satisfied, and we old-school developers can keep our Benedictine Rule." He hopes that with these compromises, "peace will be restored" in his community. "I imagine there will be some disappointment on all sides, but perhaps insufficient disappointment to cause further drama," he said.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:49 AM  

Probably not.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:53 AM  

@5

Hipp said "
"The diplomatic solution is to rename the 'Code of Conduct' to be a 'Code of Ethics' and then install a pre-packaged and widely approved Code of Conduct that does meet the modern technical requirements in place of the old," he said. "In this way, those who are very particular about what a Code of Conduct should and should not say are satisfied, and we old-school developers can keep our Benedictine Rule." He hopes that with these compromises, "peace will be restored" in his community. "I imagine there will be some disappointment on all sides, but perhaps insufficient disappointment to cause further drama," he said."

Translation: "I'm a self-flagellating idiot."

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:53 AM  

Ooops. @3.

Blogger 罗臻 October 28, 2018 9:07 AM  

McChuck, register at Infogalactic and update pages. It's a volunteer effort.

Blogger jSinSaTx #1236 October 28, 2018 9:16 AM  

Right or not, this happened over politics. We just had an Indiegogo campaign shut down for TOS violations. Roosh has had books delisted that were up for years. Alex Jones was purged from nearly everything. No amount of slickness or line walking gets around the fact they hate who you are.

Until we can get around the banking issues and DNS registration and server hosting attacks then the non-leftists will be chased off the internet.

Blogger Looking Glass October 28, 2018 9:21 AM  

@2 McChuck

That's actually the WikiMedia Engine issues that'll be replaced. Hopefully DONT PANIC is "soon". Do an outside search for it. The search function that's standard to WikiMedia simply doesn't work. WebCrawler from 1995 was more effective.

Blogger rotekz October 28, 2018 9:22 AM  

I haven't experienced Gab being down myself. I don't know how quickly Paypal service being denied is actually going to take Gab down.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2018 9:36 AM  

> In that vein, it's important to understand the SJW's Code of Conduct offensive in the Open Source space is intended to deny us the ability to do that.

The codes of conduct don't affect code usage. And can't without coming into conflict with both the GPL and BSD licenses. Code development can always be forked without the code of conduct, and eventually will be.

> I wonder if Andrew Torba now realizes you were right.

No, he doesn't. I don't believe he's capable of doing so.

They just completed another $1M round of funding. Did he use the money to set up his own server farm, which he could then rent out to others in addition to using himself? Of course not.

> Speaking of code of conduct...SQLite developer caved on CoC.

Yeah. As I noted to my wife and in email to a mutual friend, if they don't like that code they really wouldn't like mine, which is one sentence: All disputes between members of the community are to be settled on the field of honor with weapons chosen by the one challenged.

Part of our problem is that we've now raised entire generations of cowards.

> I don't know how quickly Paypal service being denied is actually going to take Gab down.

Paypal won't. But their hosting provider kicking them off will.

Blogger Looking Glass October 28, 2018 9:42 AM  

Thinking about the Techno-Libertarian position a bit, while we are watching it utterly fail in real-time, it always required a good chunk of "kumbaya" assumptions. It has always lacked any fallback, hard defensive power when it needs it. This isn't too surprising since it's really just a bunch of guys that want to be left alone and tinker with code, but the loss of societal trust within the Western countries, along with the global nature of the Internet, means it was always going to come down to hard power. Most systems fall to their lowest common denominator, and, for the Internet, that means murderous, repressive regimes.

It's definitely going to be messy for a while, but there's also a massive amount of money to be made.

Blogger Mandos October 28, 2018 9:49 AM  

Ok I hear you here Vox, and I am all in favor of the alternate platform building strategy as a resilient solution. Now the thing is, Gab is probably in jeopardy from here because no other hosting provider in their right mind will touch them with a 10-feet tadpole, lest they are willing to become the target of an SJW swarm - and worse; it took less than 24 hours for the three service providers we are talking about here (Stripe, PayPal and Joyent) to deny service to Gab after it was reported that the killer was posting there. It was coordinated and people were just waiting for the right opportunity to pull the trigger, so we are beyond SJW outrage territory here. The bottom line being that if you do not carry the mark of the beast, you will be targeted by people who can and will escalate further than you can.

So what's next? ISPs denying service to wrongthinkers? Why would they stop with hosting providers? The problem I see here is that although you were once again correct to warn Gab, I am afraid it will serve as an example for others who may think positively about building an alternative but will blink at the thought that any misstep may cost them their entire project once it becomes a target.

In other words, I am skeptical about the ability of alternative platforms to really take off until some action is taken at the top to break or at least reduce the firepower of the repression machine. Gab isn't even a serious threat, yet they're being taken out at the first opportunity. The initiatives at the bottom need to be secured by the protection at the top. If the God-Emperor eventually makes it apparent that the swamp and the agencies-run Silicon Valley giants are not invulnerable and can't do whatever they want with their political opponents as it is currently the case, it will shine a pretty different light on the opportunities with alternative platforms. Until then, their ability to prove themselves antifragile is in question - at least from an external perspective.

Blogger Atticus October 28, 2018 9:49 AM  

Worth noting that Mastodon is open source and anyone can run their own instance of it.

Blogger SemiSpook37 October 28, 2018 9:55 AM  

You know, I can't say I'm surprised by this. Having recently dipped my toe back into the Twitter cesspool (yes, I know, but at the same time, I'm only doing it in a fringe manner so as not to stir up the hornet's nest), I'm much more interested in seeing the oncoming self-immolation of these idiots than I am blatant self-destruction by way of ignorance over at Gab.

Torba has nobody but himself to blame for what's happening to him. Vox offered him some necessary advice and counsel, and the dipshit threw it in his face. You reap what you sow, man.

The idiots here (by idiots, I mean the left-techies) demanding that life be fair are the same ones that feel the need to dictate what that definition of "fair" is for everyone. The concept of irony is completely lost on these buffoons, as is the concept of shame (really, I'm finding more and more that irony and shame go hand-in-hand).

Meanwhile, I'm still content to quietly support Alt-Tech in whatever way I can. Hell, if anything, it's driving me to get smart on a few things and just come up with something myself. And that's really what we need: people that are inclined to just do something useful and not bitch about any sort of the credit, accolades, money, etc. they may or may not get. Just stick to leaving the world better than you found it, and it'll all work out.

Blogger VD October 28, 2018 10:03 AM  

It was coordinated and people were just waiting for the right opportunity to pull the trigger, so we are beyond SJW outrage territory here.

Obviously. It's exactly the same thing that happened with Indiegogo. It's exactly what I describe in SJWAL as SJWs appealing to the amenable authority. None of this is even remotely a surprise.

Blogger Dangeresque October 28, 2018 10:19 AM  

@12 "it was always going to come down to hard power"

One of my takeaways from my lolbertarian phase was that everything comes down to hard power at it's extremes. A gun will always veto even the loftiest of principles. In order for something like the internet to exist, we either have to never get to those extremes - which is the constant balancing act of civilization - or it has to be made completely distributed and trivialized at the physical level to the point where even manufacturing the hardware to run a node could be done on hobby level equipment. Since civilizations always collapse, that pretty much limits us to the latter, and when you look into what it takes to manufacture integrated circuits, that option doesn't look much better either...

But there is a silver lining. Things don't have to made completely resilient. They just have to be made resilient to the point that it becomes impractical to attack. To where it costs the attacker more than he is likely to get back. The juice has to be not worth the squeeze so to speak.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2018 10:19 AM  

GAB is down again.

It was the Jews.

Blogger Johnny October 28, 2018 10:30 AM  

>>Torba has nobody but himself to blame...

Too bad old Torba hasn't sorted this stuff out because he is wasting resources by failing.

Blogger JAG October 28, 2018 10:30 AM  

Dangeresque wrote:@12 "it was always going to come down to hard power"

One of my takeaways from my lolbertarian phase was that everything comes down to hard power at it's extremes. A gun will always veto even the loftiest of principles. In order for something like the internet to exist, we either have to never get to those extremes - which is the constant balancing act of civilization - or it has to be made completely distributed and trivialized at the physical level to the point where even manufacturing the hardware to run a node could be done on hobby level equipment. Since civilizations always collapse, that pretty much limits us to the latter, and when you look into what it takes to manufacture integrated circuits, that option doesn't look much better either...

But there is a silver lining. Things don't have to made completely resilient. They just have to be made resilient to the point that it becomes impractical to attack. To where it costs the attacker more than he is likely to get back. The juice has to be not worth the squeeze so to speak.


The flaw of the Libertarian political philosophy is that at its core it is utopian. The problem there is that human beings make utopia impossible to achieve. Thus, the Libertarian philosophy is unrealistic.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 28, 2018 10:36 AM  

This reaction was 100% predictable. That's why I asked if Gab could survive this. It is completely disingenuous. There is all manner of evil on Twitter and Facebook. I think he is in a catch-22 situation because the retards are supporting it financially.

I have FB and Twitter completely blocked on my computer. Gab, Minds and YT are the only social media sites I use regularly.

Creating our own social media sites is really just building a ghetto to live in. That is what Gab is. There is almost no escaping the endless Nazi larping on Gab.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume October 28, 2018 10:42 AM  

@19

Failure is inevitable. Its only a waste if you don't learn and adapt.

Blogger Unknown October 28, 2018 10:43 AM  

Vox,

On Oneway I noted that Gab had recently decided to ban loli, and that if anyone there saw it to report it, and was in response attacked by Oneway founder Derek.

I can appreciate that Spacebunny is there, but being called a moron and told to shut up by the founder of the place is not going to fly with me, especially when I was trying to inform everyone who saw the post I was responding to that the loli situation had changed at Gab.

--Unknownsailor--

Blogger VD October 28, 2018 10:52 AM  

Being called a moron and told to shut up by the founder of the place is not going to fly with me

Nor should it, if you were not behaving like a troll or a moron. One of the intrinsic problems that we face is that many, if not most, of the only people capable of withstanding the social pressure to which everyone is being subjected do not play well with others.

Blogger maniacprovost October 28, 2018 10:52 AM  

I still use Gab. I don't have any problem with their policies. However they are just not the technological solution we need.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 28, 2018 10:59 AM  

SemiSpook37 wrote:The idiots here (by idiots, I mean the left-techies) demanding that life be fair

This is the core of SJW ideology. Nobody has a cross to bear, because bearing crosses isn't fair and anyone who doesn't agree is a monster. This is why they flat out deny reality. If you pretend there is no cross needing bearing, then we can all pretend things are well.

Blogger Jackson Peds October 28, 2018 11:00 AM  

Ilk, OT I know, but I am discussing with an NPC about Pizzagate, can someone link me to the VOAT and all the links that can shut up his faggotry?

Thanks in advance.

Blogger S1AL October 28, 2018 11:02 AM  

"The flaw of the Libertarian political philosophy is that at its core it is utopian. The problem there is that human beings make utopia impossible to achieve. Thus, the Libertarian philosophy is unrealistic."

I like to call libertarianism the political cult of white, Christian, middle-class America. There's a reason it had significant overlap with the religious cult of that same demographic - Mormons.

Blogger The Chortling October 28, 2018 11:12 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box October 28, 2018 11:13 AM  

If gab.ai is down the toilet, there's always buddylist.co...been on there two weeks and it's Alt-BLIGHT free.

Blogger Random #57 October 28, 2018 11:16 AM  

@17 Dangeresque:

In order for something like the internet to exist, we either have to never get to those extremes - which is the constant balancing act of civilization - or it has to be made completely distributed and trivialized at the physical level to the point where even manufacturing the hardware to run a node could be done on hobby level equipment. Since civilizations always collapse, that pretty much limits us to the latter, and when you look into what it takes to manufacture integrated circuits, that option doesn't look much better either...

You can make low density devices on a tabletop. You can also scavenge the previous technological society's parts for a long time to bootstrap yourself when it comes to CAD, but as late as the Motorola 68000, first sampled in early 1980, many VLSI chips were still drawn by hand.

But as you say, this will come down to power, and its very possible we are going to have to build our own Internet.

Blogger Jack Ward October 28, 2018 11:18 AM  

So, a server farm, some income from that in addition to gab like functions, the right software designed to moderate. And, here I know not, but a gateway of some sort into the internet that could not be taken down.
Sounds like something a Vox type person could put together. Vox, were he not so busy already, could probably knock this out in a few weeks. He cannot, of course, one man no matter how brilliant can only do so much at one time. Maybe there is someone he knows that can shoulder the burden. The VFM, the Ilk, the lurkers, the Vox site crowd, might be able to dig a bit deeper and provide some more support. Seed money as it were.
If we had a Vox designed twitter like emulator I would definitely sign on to it. I wonder if the GE would, if it got big enough and well enough defensed to survive?
Just some thoughts.

Blogger tz October 28, 2018 11:25 AM  

What the Losertarians miss is that Liberty is an EFFECT, the fruits of Christendom (Augustine, Aquinas, The Reformation and counter-reformation), Greco-Roman philosophy (Socrates, Aristotle, Cicero), English common law tradition (Magna Charta, Juries, Blacks Law Dictionary), a particular environment where liberty can flourish - you don't find cacti in jungles, nor orchids in the desert.

Another missing element in most arguments is the 2nd amendment. Everyone armed, but no one shot. The indivdualism including hard work and thrift. The arguments about outsourcing to "dispute resolution organizations" is absurd. If they are even useful, you will merely have privatized tyranny (Molyneux in FDR3255 at 50 minutes goes into a long discussion if you don't "volunteer" to buy insurance it will be like the seige of the branch Davidians at Waco - cut off power, water, lock you in... no, I'm not exaggerating). "Don't break the NAP or I'll sicc my DRO on you" is different than "Don't break the NAP or I'll shoot you".

Tom Woods and Bob Murphy's Contra Cruise is this weekend. What do you think the demographics on race and sex are?

Before 1776, the colonists engendered liberty, so a small single digit tax, but worse, the collection by the redcoats was seen as a huge violation.

I know of no SeiveGnat that worries about DUI check lanes, Civil Asset Forfeiture, or that taxes are taking well over 1/5th of income, except in passing, occasionally. Then there's abortion. What changed? The immigrants in the 1900 wave were more tolerant of big government, so we got Wilson, FDR, and LBJ - and Nixon and Carter.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 11:30 AM  

@17

"But there is a silver lining. Things don't have to made completely resilient. They just have to be made resilient to the point that it becomes impractical to attack. To where it costs the attacker more than he is likely to get back. The juice has to be not worth the squeeze so to speak."

Correct.

No bank is invulnerable, yet millions of unguarded banks make it through every night without being robbed, simply because it's extremely difficult to steal a tank, WITH main gun ammuntion, AND get it to a bank in the middle of the night AND fire the main gun a couple of times WITHOUT attracting the attention of everybody within a 15-mile radius.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 11:35 AM  

@20

"
The flaw of the Libertarian political philosophy is that at its core it is utopian. The problem there is that human beings make utopia impossible to achieve. Thus, the Libertarian philosophy is unrealistic."

Communism and libertarianism are alike in that all it takes is one person who isn't willing to submit to the ideal to screw up the entire system, and enslave everyone else.
Also, both systems are open-borders, no-tarriffs globalism.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 28, 2018 11:38 AM  

Never had an issue on Gab, but that is that advantage of being a nobody, what the broken boys of nazi larping did to Vox is inexcusable and it makes a site unworkable.

I'll take the other side of we need a big social for our own. That kind of site just turns into a blow off steam mental health session which never challenges the authority or legitimacy of the corrupt establishment, the nazi larpers being the absolute worst and neediest for such a session.

Maybe a distributed set of nodes for the dissemination of info and opinion, how to get it I don't know.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 11:40 AM  

@27

"Ilk, OT I know, but I am discussing with an NPC about Pizzagate, can someone link me to the VOAT and all the links that can shut up his faggotry?

Thanks in advance. "

Uh, you mean like this?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pizzagate

Moron.

LMGTFY
For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than search it for themselves.

Blogger Didas Kalos October 28, 2018 11:46 AM  

There is no such thing as free speech. Some personal said that on more than 1 occasion I believe. Porn is evil!

Blogger Cecil Henry October 28, 2018 12:00 PM  

I still hope GAB succeeds.

The more alternatives to the social media strongholders the better.

Hopefully Youtube will either be forced to stop censoring or competitive alternatives will come.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 12:04 PM  

@31

"But as you say, this will come down to power, and its very possible we are going to have to build our own Internet."

It's going to require changing the laws to create a band designated for unlicensed, private individuals can have high-powered, multi-frequncy trancievers using omnidirectional or directional antennas, to be used exclusively for digital communications, with a useful range between stations being several hundred to 1000 miles. (Otherwise it's too easy to shatter the network from the Missouri/Kansas border westward.)

To get such ranges requires the use of frequencies below 30 MHz. However, even at 30 MHz this necessarily limits the bandwidth along any link to 15 M-baud/sec [ideal], with practical, out-of-the-lab speeds to about 1/4 of that....but by using both Phase-shift and amplitude-shift keying with a 16-symbol set (4 bits), that can be recovered and boosted to 60-Mbit/second.

And 30MHz doesn't work nearly as well as 3 MHz for long distance communication -- which then limits your cross-desert/great-plains speed down to 12 Mbit/sec. So, first-generation wifi-speeds on the primary backbone links between the west coast and the rest of the country.

Web designers are going to have to learn how to be not so wasteful of bandwidth -- something which I don't see happening any times soon, because most of them are the types of clods who are totally dependent on automated page-generation tools because they can't even learn HTML.





With no hard links,

Blogger Lance E October 28, 2018 12:09 PM  

rotekz wrote:I don't know how quickly Paypal service being denied is actually going to take Gab down.

Probably more quickly than you think. I have no idea what they spend all of their money on, but they're always acting desperate for more.

Maybe the funding is for that legal battle Andrew thinks he's going to win against Google for being big meanies and banning them from the Play Store. So Alpha.

Blogger Ransom Smith October 28, 2018 12:24 PM  

Why even make a Twitter copy in the first place?
Twitter isn't a success, it's an abject failure that has never made money.

Blogger VD October 28, 2018 12:25 PM  

If we had a Vox designed twitter like emulator I would definitely sign on to it.

Coming soon. Just be patient.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2018 12:30 PM  

> I still hope GAB succeeds.

I wish Gab the best, but Torba is going to have to find someone competent to run it for him. He certainly can't do it.

> And, here I know not, but a gateway of some sort into the internet that could not be taken down.

In addition to hosting, to be fully attack proof you'll eventually need your own backbone connection. I have no idea how much those run (the estimates I've found indicate $10 of thousands per month), but again, providing access to others would be a revenue stream.

But in theory even that could be taken down by the politically connected.

Then there's the domain name service provider, which Gab has already dealt with once, and the payment processor issue.

And if you manage to win those battles, they'll shift to attacking the users individually. It's not going to be an easy war.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2018 12:32 PM  

> Probably more quickly than you think. I have no idea what they spend all of their money on, but they're always acting desperate for more.

I believe Andrew is trying to hire developers. Which is brain dead when they're being attacked at the infrastructure level and that needs to be dealt with first.

Blogger VFM #7191 October 28, 2018 12:54 PM  

JAG wrote:The flaw of the Libertarian political philosophy is that at its core it is utopian. The problem there is that human beings make utopia impossible to achieve. Thus, the Libertarian philosophy is unrealistic.

Libertarians don't understand how human beings work. They're solipsistic autistic nerds who project their higher IQ, European cultural values, and anti-social tendencies onto everyone else.

Blogger Silent Draco October 28, 2018 12:56 PM  

@40 Dirk, I took a quick look at the frequency allocation chart. There's a couple of amateur bands in the 3-30 MHz range, but the bandwidths are small, maybe 100-200 kHz for those closer to 3MHz with more propagation. Maybe takes a 64 or 256QAM to get a larger symbol set for more throughput. I need to pull out the signal processing books and take a better look. Agree that the first thing is to use leaner HTML sets and for site designers to reduce the amount of *&($ing bandwidth needed. Time to wean people back to simple text and maybe some image thumbnails. Hey, where have I seen that? One of the reasons I appreciate voxday is that it's all content and minimal fluff.

Got another idea to think about and work on, to keep the brain sharp. Need a little time to work this.

Blogger Lance E October 28, 2018 12:58 PM  

Tars Tarkusz wrote:Creating our own social media sites is really just building a ghetto to live in. That is what Gab is. There is almost no escaping the endless Nazi larping on Gab.

Then why do use the site regularly?

I reject the idea that an alternative social media site is a ghetto. Gab is a ghetto because of who runs it. Compare the comments on an average Gab post with the comments on an average blog post from Vox, or Sailer, Z-Man, Karlin, AE, Porter, and probably dozens more whom I don't follow.

A large part of the problem is platforms being designed and run by people who have absorbed the Silicon Valley cultural cancer of inclusiveness and 10X growth. Those two simple anti-principles explain about 95% of how Andrew runs Gab, with the remainder being his sparkling personality. Minds is better, but there was always just something off about it to me; the content is generally bad, and they somehow managed to design a rep system that makes the site worse, not better.

Aspiring entrepreneurs need to step out of the muh free speech frame and ask the question, "if it were me running the platform, what would it look like?" Surely not some ridiculous "marketplace of ideas" where low-effort clickbait and mindless statements of the appallingly obvious are always monopolizing the audience's attention, right? If you have the tech skills but not the vision, then find someone else to partner with who has the latter.

What you need is a quality bar. Twitter was designed to be a platform for celebrities. Stack Overflow was seeded with hardcore programmers from Joel and Jeff's regular audiences. Facebook was originally just for college students, much like the old Usenet in many ways. What do all of these platforms have in common? They all tried to expand way beyond their original niches, removed almost all barriers to entry, and eventually turned into identical copies of the same vapid NPC megaphones. If you look very carefully, you can still find little clusters of resistance, people from the original niches trying to create a metaphorical oasis in the desert, but those platforms will never be the same again.

Recruiting from the blacklist is a dangerous game. The rewards can be high, if you're very careful - but if you're not careful, if you're willing to deal with anyone at all who's feeling the heat, then you end up with a 2VS, or in the case of Gab, an army of alt-retards.

Most platforms can do far better for themselves with a very small number of loyal, quality contributors than they can with a horde of riffraff and NPCs.

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 28, 2018 12:59 PM  

I'll take the other side of we need a big social for our own.

I'm with you. I don't really see the advantage in clustering one's politically offensive group on a social media platform like Gab in the first place. If you want to discuss things like the JQ, go do it somewhere that's proven to be resilient like /pol/ or further off the beaten path like Usenet. That way you can be anonymous (as much as is possible), so if one of your members decides he's "going in," they can't trace him back to your public meeting spot in five minutes and start nuking it from orbit.

The only reasons I can see for alt-retard congregating on Gab are that they *want* the attention, or that they lack imagination and think, "Well, (((they))) have Twitter, so we should have a Twitter too."

Blogger Phunctor October 28, 2018 1:05 PM  

re usenet: snopes was once alt.folklore.urban!

Blogger Raker_T October 28, 2018 1:07 PM  

@40
Aw man, you mean like dial up speed. And learn HTML? That's what WP is for, no HTML, no CSS, life is but a breeze. Sorry, couldn't resist. Talk about historical reenactments, I think learning Morse Code is required for Ham operators.
All kidding aside, thanks for the info.

Blogger InformationMerchant October 28, 2018 1:10 PM  

@23 He attacks everyone. He attacked Alex Jones for being a commie, people trying to report bugs, people wanting the government to do anything about big tech, etc.

He's for free speech other than porn, but I haven't seen what happens when he has to make a decision about defamation or something. That said, his plan is to do what the leftists did and make it so every little group can have a network and those networks can be joined together.

He builds better tech than Torba, although OneWay has some design flaws Gab doesn't have. Factor in price and time, Derek is more effective for sure.

The people building alternative platforms are likely to be free speech activists, so it's no real surprise to see elements of Torba in him.

-----------


@33 "Tom Woods and Bob Murphy's Contra Cruise is this weekend. What do you think the demographics on race and sex are?"

Those Libertarians are loosely allies, I occasionally remind those types of guys that they sometimes behave exactly the same way as certain parts of the Alt Right do.

They have a very similar breakdown to the Alt Right, we have slightly more women and we have way more blacks.

They want to peacefully negotiate the breakup the union. We'd like to do the same.

If you asked that faction of Libertarians to name a black Libertarian, they say "Eric July" in unison. Bob Murphy has been trying to float the idea of states leaving for a long time because he wants to be able to say "people were ok with them leaving without paying off any of the national debt." They're more extreme than the Alt Right on both of these points due to their ideas.


Meanwhile the LP is sending out emergency text messages about Trump narrowly defining sex. The libertarian to Alt Right jump is very appealing considering the LP route leads to Social Justice.

They can keep the Jeffrey Tuckers, we'll take the Hoppes.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 28, 2018 1:20 PM  

Ultimately, the biggest problem we face is we need an alternative to San Francisco's incubator culture.

I think that is one of the biggest obstacles to forming our own platforms.

We need a safe space to develop our own incubator culture.

Yeah, I know. Great idea, Cataline...Now who bells the cat?

Blogger dh October 28, 2018 1:24 PM  

> We need a safe space to develop our own incubator culture.

False. Incubators are designed separate investors from their money. Only. They are unnecessary.

Blogger maniacprovost October 28, 2018 1:28 PM  

What we need is a microblogging protocol, something like email and rss, so that web hosts can be set up to access the network faster than they are shut down.

I may have some time to devote to it in spring.

Blogger Resident Moron™ October 28, 2018 1:29 PM  

We don't need a safe space, just one that isn't implacably and irrationally hostile, i.e. constantly trying to kill us all.

There's many world's of difference between the two.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey October 28, 2018 1:35 PM  

Many are too young to remember life before the Internet, but in the 80s we did have a vibrant on-line social scene without it. Enterprising souls would run local bulletin board services (BBSes). Those were often high quality affairs, too, in terms of the composition of the membership. The signal-to-noise ratio had not been swamped yet by the onslaught of the masses which came with the Internet.

It might be an interesting exercise to try to update that approach. A distributed network of nodes that remain in communication rather than the top-down model of a centrally powerful service overseeing billions of clients globally, as is the Silicon Valley way of Facebook, Twitter et al.

Blogger Justin Bailey October 28, 2018 1:38 PM  

I remember being excited about Gab, but the incident with Vox led me to delete my account. The final straw was when Torba was yukking it up with his alt-retard buddies and publicly told me to cry more when I said he should police his site and remove blatant abuse. This led to me being swarmed by the peanut gallery. If you don't set standards for your platform, someone else will.

But hey, at least Torba still has Free Speech.
http://magaimg.net/img/6kw9.jpg

Blogger Damelon Brinn October 28, 2018 1:48 PM  

When I signed up for OneWay a few weeks ago, the first post I saw was from the owner, who was expressing horror at the prospect of government regulating how Internet businesses can treat users and content. If you keep government out of it, the free market will punish social media companies for bad behavior, I guess. Freaking lolbertarians. I suppose that doesn't mean his service can't be worth using.

What we need is a microblogging protocol

There's one called Ostatus, and a successor in the works called ActivityPub. There's also OrbitDB, a fully distributed database on top of IPFS, which could be used as the basis for a social networking/microblogging platform. Here's some interest in tying ActivityPub into that.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 28, 2018 1:50 PM  

Yet another clear warning that we need our own alternatives for literally everything, not just internet services. At this rate the day may not be far off when some SJW-operated grocery store won't let you buy food unless you're biometrically identified and it's determined that you have politically acceptable social media accounts.

Blogger Shimshon October 28, 2018 1:55 PM  

@53 Ultimately, the biggest problem we face is we need an alternative to San Francisco's incubator culture.

I am recently spending time in Tel Aviv. In all my years here, I never worked there. Recently, every day. There's a lot of talent and energy here. In four weeks, I think I've seen two bluehairs. Although one I admittedly see everyday working at the train station.

On a related note, the place I am at at the moment is exceedingly Ashkenazi. Probably the most Ashkenazi company I have ever worked at in Israel.

Blogger Jack Ward October 28, 2018 1:59 PM  

@43 VD be patient, it's coming...

I will trust the Plan [have no choice]
I will stand with the Plan.
Patient? Now's that's a tall order. But, again, no choice.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and, neither was the morass we are wading through. So, wait. Wait for 'Smoke Signals' [twitter replacement], wait for 'People Connect' [facebook replacement]. Wait for the fade away of sjw's [Oh, darn. That ain't ever going to happen].

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2018 2:03 PM  

The silicon left is going not for broke exactly, but pretty far out there in the blatant thumb-rigging. They must have been suffering tremendous turmoil behind the scenes after '16, which was partly a result of Trump possessing bully pulpit outside the MSM. And since they can't very well kick the president off Twitter, they can kick less important people they don't like off everything.

I expected more, frankly. Though there's still time.

Blogger OneWingedShark October 28, 2018 2:04 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:@31

"But as you say, this will come down to power, and its very possible we are going to have to build our own Internet."

It's going to require changing the laws to create a band designated for unlicensed, private individuals can have high-powered, multi-frequncy trancievers using omnidirectional or directional antennas, to be used exclusively for digital communications, with a useful range between stations being several hundred to 1000 miles. (Otherwise it's too easy to shatter the network from the Missouri/Kansas border westward.)

To get such ranges requires the use of frequencies below 30 MHz. However, even at 30 MHz this necessarily limits the bandwidth along any link to 15 M-baud/sec [ideal], with practical, out-of-the-lab speeds to about 1/4 of that....but by using both Phase-shift and amplitude-shift keying with a 16-symbol set (4 bits), that can be recovered and boosted to 60-Mbit/second.

And 30MHz doesn't work nearly as well as 3 MHz for long distance communication -- which then limits your cross-desert/great-plains speed down to 12 Mbit/sec. So, first-generation wifi-speeds on the primary backbone links between the west coast and the rest of the country.

Web designers are going to have to learn how to be not so wasteful of bandwidth -- something which I don't see happening any times soon, because most of them are the types of clods who are totally dependent on automated page-generation tools because they can't even learn HTML.

With no hard links,
Silent Draco wrote:@40 Dirk, I took a quick look at the frequency allocation chart. There's a couple of amateur bands in the 3-30 MHz range, but the bandwidths are small, maybe 100-200 kHz for those closer to 3MHz with more propagation. Maybe takes a 64 or 256QAM to get a larger symbol set for more throughput. I need to pull out the signal processing books and take a better look. Agree that the first thing is to use leaner HTML sets and for site designers to reduce the amount of *&($ing bandwidth needed. Time to wean people back to simple text and maybe some image thumbnails. Hey, where have I seen that? One of the reasons I appreciate voxday is that it's all content and minimal fluff.

Got another idea to think about and work on, to keep the brain sharp. Need a little time to work this.

Maybe time to revisit the old OSI concepts, as well as things like PsotScript… which would be infinitely better than the CSS+HTML layout kludge we have now. Actually, thinking about things like this It would be nice to have a solid, well-defined VM geared for high-level languages (having high-level constructs for things like TASKs and GENERICs [and not mere type-parameterization GENERICs, but allowing values, subprograms, packages, and other GENERICs as parameters]), perhaps with the standard requiring something like OpenVMS's Common Language Environment married to IBM's System Object Model with the base-/meta-object extended with ASN.1 serialize/deserialize methods.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 28, 2018 2:09 PM  

@63 I really thought they would have kicked Trump of Twitter by now.

Blogger jandolin October 28, 2018 2:16 PM  






GAB.com statement on Tree of Life synagogue shooting
GAB
Gab.com’s policy on terrorism and violence have always been very clear: we a have zero tolerance for it. Gab unequivocally disavows and condemns all acts of terrorism and violence. This has always been our policy. We are saddened and disgusted by the news of violence in Pittsburgh and are keeping the families and friends of all victims in our thoughts and prayers.

We refuse to be defined by the media’s narratives about Gab and our community. Gab’s mission is very simple: to defend free expression and individual liberty online for all people. Social media often brings out the best and the worst of humanity. From live streamed murders on Facebook, to threats of violence by bombing suspect Cesar Sayoc Jr. that went unaddressed by Twitter, and more. Criminals and criminal behavior exist on every social media platform.

Shortly after the attack, Gab was alerted to a user profile of the alleged Tree of Life Synagogue shooter. The account was verified and matched the name of the alleged shooter’s name, which was mentioned on police scanners. This person also had accounts on other social networks.

Gab took swift and proactive action to contact law enforcement immediately. We first backed up all user data from the account and then proceeded to suspend the account. We then contacted the FBI and made them aware of this account and the user data in our possession. We are ready and willing to work with law enforcement to see to it that justice is served.

We have nothing but love for all people and freedom. We have consistently disavowed all violence. Free speech is crucial for the prevention of violence. If people can not express themselves through words, they will do so through violence. No one wants that. No one.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener October 28, 2018 2:27 PM  

Regarding the fake bomber - can anyone remember another serial bomber who wasn't an antisocial loner who gave everyone the creeps? Sayoc worked as a night club DJ. People described him as funny. This is so far from the profile of the typical bomber that it's absurd. Smells like a setup all the way.

Blogger Lance E October 28, 2018 2:28 PM  

The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey wrote:Many are too young to remember life before the Internet, but in the 80s we did have a vibrant on-line social scene without it. Enterprising souls would run local bulletin board services (BBSes).

Exactly! It is Not. About. Technology. Content Is King.

Tech geeks just want to play around with new toys and will find any excuse to do so. If a particular tool or protocol actually helps you solve a problem that other people aren't effectively solving, fine. Otherwise, it's a distraction.

Figure out the problem you want to solve first. "Less censorship" is not only impractical, it's incoherent because everyone but the most cotton-headed libertarians wants censorship of something. It's a question of whom and what.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2018 2:35 PM  

@65- I have gone back and forth on whether they would dare, but suspending Trump's account I think is too risky. It threatens Twitter's very existence, not just from disgruntled users but from executive reprisal.

The time to do it would have been before he won, and they're no doubt kicking themselves for demuring.

Blogger tublecane October 28, 2018 2:41 PM  

@57- Yes, there are all manner of means of communication. Phone trees, samizdat, radio, small publication (newsletters, pamphlets), poster board, even word-of-mouth.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 2:51 PM  

@49

"
Most platforms can do far better for themselves with a very small number of loyal, quality contributors than they can with a horde of riffraff and NPCs."

The problem is that they all dream of being the next big start-up turning into publicly traded corporation, with a $multi-billion IPO event.

They don't realize that without (((connections))), it doesn't matter how good your site is, it's going to have to grow organically...and that means NOT appealing to a follow-on population of immigrants who are smaller than, and hostile to, your initial core population.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 2:53 PM  

@50

"re usenet: snopes was once alt.folklore.urban!"

Now its alt.folklore.urban.moderated.sjw-moderated

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 2:55 PM  

@51

"Talk about historical reenactments, I think learning Morse Code is required for Ham operators. "

That's why I specified license-free (althought, admittedly, there is now a ham operator class that doesn't require morse, but in its place, you have a requirement to know digital transmissions. Basically, so that in an emergency, you can communicate (or relay communications) with only a 3db Signal-to-Noise ratio.

Blogger Michael Maier October 28, 2018 3:01 PM  

jandolin wrote:

GAB.com statement on Tree of Life synagogue shooting

GAB

Gab.com’s policy on terrorism and violence have always been very clear: we a have zero tolerance for it. Gab unequivocally disavows and condemns all acts of terrorism and violence. This has always been our policy. We are saddened and disgusted by the news of violence in Pittsburgh and are keeping the families and friends of all victims in our thoughts and prayers.

We refuse to be defined by the media’s narratives about Gab and our community. Gab’s mission is very simple: to defend free expression and individual liberty online for all people. Social media often brings out the best and the worst of humanity. From live streamed murders on Facebook, to threats of violence by bombing suspect Cesar Sayoc Jr. that went unaddressed by Twitter, and more. Criminals and criminal behavior exist on every social media platform.

Shortly after the attack, Gab was alerted to a user profile of the alleged Tree of Life Synagogue shooter. The account was verified and matched the name of the alleged shooter’s name, which was mentioned on police scanners. This person also had accounts on other social networks.

Gab took swift and proactive action to contact law enforcement immediately. We first backed up all user data from the account and then proceeded to suspend the account. We then contacted the FBI and made them aware of this account and the user data in our possession. We are ready and willing to work with law enforcement to see to it that justice is served.

We have nothing but love for all people and freedom. We have consistently disavowed all violence. Free speech is crucial for the prevention of violence. If people can not express themselves through words, they will do so through violence. No one wants that. No one.



Oh, well that ought to save them, then.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:19 PM  

@53

"Ultimately, the biggest problem we face is we need an alternative to San Francisco's incubator culture.

I think that is one of the biggest obstacles to forming our own platforms."

San Fransisco isn't an incubator. It's a cancerous tumor production center.

What has made San Fransisco important in all of this is that SF is the west coast headquarters of a lot of banks (and has been ever since the U.S. Treasury Department's San Fransisco Mint was set up).

So, it's the financial center of the west.

The South has two financial centers. Atlanta (which is hopeless) and Dallas (which is why Texas Instruments started there and Dallas Semiconductor is DALLAS Semiconductor).

Then we have the patent trolls of the Eastern District of Texas (who are a confounding force). Alt-right should look to Dallas for funding. If enough creativity is focused on Dallas financing, that might be enough to get the patent troll problem eliminated ("Look assholes, you're killing golden gooses before they even get off the ground! You're still a partnership, but all of you have been disbarred!")

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:25 PM  

@55

"What we need is a microblogging protocol, something like email and rss, so that web hosts can be set up to access the network faster than they are shut down.

I may have some time to devote to it in spring."

Or you could just use the USEnet protocol, and not set an arbitrary limit of only trivial and incomplete can be posted in one post.

Change the addressing from the USEnet hierarchal style to personal addresses. Usenet already allows cross-channel communication, too.
Whatever you do, eliminate the word "hashtag" from the site vocabulary. Even if you have the similarly working mechanism, call it something else. ANYTHING else.

Blogger Ford Prefect October 28, 2018 3:27 PM  

@20: I would have said, along the same lines, that Libertarianism, and socialism, and a whole lot of other isms, fail because they have, as a primary assumption, the idea that mankind is essentially good. That assumption is, unfortunately, wholly incorrect.

When you start a journey with a fundamentally flawed assumption, you tend not to arrive at your intended destination.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:27 PM  

Microblogging is for vapid people with no consequential thoughts...and attention whores (but I repeat myself).

Would this forum be as popular as it is in twitter-like microblogging format? Of course not.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:29 PM  

@57

"
It might be an interesting exercise to try to update that approach. A distributed network of nodes that remain in communication rather than the top-down model of a centrally powerful service overseeing billions of clients globally, as is the Silicon Valley way of Facebook, Twitter et al. "

Congratulations, you just described USEnet.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:30 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 3:31 PM  

@58

"The final straw was when Torba was yukking it up with his alt-retard buddies and publicly told me to cry more when I said he should police his site and remove blatant abuse. This led to me being swarmed by the peanut gallery. If you don't set standards for your platform, someone else will."

Maybe Torba's a crypto-Alt-Reichtard. That would explain a lot.

Blogger camcleat October 28, 2018 3:52 PM  

@60:

"At this rate the day may not be far off when some SJW-operated grocery store won't let you buy food unless you're biometrically identified and it's determined that you have politically acceptable social media accounts."

Or, your self-driving care takes you straight to prison for wrong-think.

Kia's Driverless Future - Propagana Watch, James Corbett

Blogger Tars Tarkusz October 28, 2018 3:58 PM  

Lance E wrote:Then why do use the site regularly?

Mostly news. Gab is pretty good for that if you subscribe to the right people. I have FB and Twitter blocked from my computer.

Blogger camcleat October 28, 2018 3:59 PM  

@73

"The South has two financial centers. Atlanta (which is hopeless) and Dallas (which is why Texas Instruments started there and Dallas Semiconductor is DALLAS Semiconductor).
"


And Charlotte.

A few years ago when I was looking into growth by industry in NC, I learned "Financial" was second fastest growing in the state.

Financial was second only to "State Government." Neither of those facts gave me hope for the future.

Blogger Gettimothy October 28, 2018 4:05 PM  

I think Gab will survive this and grow stronger for it. He has had an offer from a hosting company in Sweden, there may be more.


Blogger maniacprovost October 28, 2018 4:23 PM  

Microblogging is for vapid people with no consequential thoughts...and attention whores (but I repeat myself).

What you just described is the bulk of the market.


Would this forum be as popular as it is in twitter-like microblogging format? Of course not.

It would be more popular, if such a thing existed, because you could not only make your comment (which is short enough to fit on Twitter), but you would be able to commentate on particularly cogent posts that are relevant to your followers. The nature of social media also means people are easier to ban, with the exception of committed trolls. Commenters have more invested in a microblogging account than they do in throw-away screen names.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 4:25 PM  

The only reason we are using throw-away screen names is to hide our identities from any number of inquisitions.

Blogger Jack October 28, 2018 4:27 PM  

Patent troll problem is already solved. Plus, Dallas is in the Northern District, not Eastern District (Congress does not know its Cardinal directions)

Blogger Gettimothy October 28, 2018 4:34 PM  

The ZMan gets to the nub of it. http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=15418

"These events serve another purpose though. Like those folks in the market who were oblivious to what they were doing, what’s happening now is opening eyes. I’ve had a dozen exchanges in the last 24 hours with normies wondering how it is possible that the people in charge can so easily pull the plug on a site like Gab. There’s no question that lots of normies respond to these attacks with calls for greater conformity, but lots of people who “trust the system” start to question those beliefs when they see this stuff.

That’s always been the challenge for our side. It’s never been about race realism, the JQ or the nature of Progressivism. Those are useful tools, but the real goal is to convince people that the system they are supporting is really just a fiction. More specifically, the political dynamic of Left versus Right, Red versus Blue and Democrat versus Republican, is just theater. After all, if conservatives are unable to and unwilling to conserve and defend basic rights like speech and association, what’s their real role in this?

The fact that the people in charge are free to read your e-mail, track your behavior and spy on you in your own home is not that obvious to people. The reason is white people are trusting. They just assume the people running these tech giants share their civic sensibilities. When they see tech giants and massive banks squashing dissidents like bugs, by throwing them off the internet and out of the banking system, some of those normal white people begin to suspect we have been right all along about our rulers."

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 5:49 PM  

@88

"Patent troll problem is already solved"

Oh, I missed it. How did that happen?

My solution would have been this: If you have a patent for a technology which is already in production, and within X months, if you aren't producing it, or licensing production of the technology to a producer who puts it into production, you lose all rights to claim infringements.

Basically, a "shit or get off the pot" rule.

This would immediately eliminate both the problem of legal firms buying up patents just so they can send out demand letters, and also to prevent tech firms from buying up competing tech for the sole purpose of keeping it off the market.

(Oh, and for all you people who still cling to the 100 MPG carburetor story.... that rumor has been going around for at least 40 years now... which means by now, even with renewal, it would be public domain. Not only that, for PRIVATE, non-commercial USE, anyone can use any tech that's in any patent. Strange that we've never seen even ONE machinist in all of Detroit make one of these magical carburetors.

Blogger LP999-16 October 28, 2018 6:31 PM  

Thumbs down on Gab since that occurrence.

While I love when everyone is healthy, successful, happy not being messed with by techbigsocial many people left Gab and grew fed up with being asking to donate, buy stocks, give phone numbers, fuss with the help dept, fuss with some fog like atmosphere as in trust safety councils and guidelines, really those boards are as obnoxious as anyone's HOA.

Andrew Torba was more than happy to accommodate Andrew Anglin and moderate comments for him, free speech is best when moderated in regards to what was allowed to happen to the Day's.

Also, why did Gab's mgmt, those 2 young men refuse to accept advice from someone like Vox, a super intel -

The unprofessionalism Torba (and Ustav?) exhibited remains unacceptable, it remains disappointing.

Lastly, it was another reflection of those without wives and families do not understand such depraved content towards the Day's was terrible. Torba's taunts and comments during and after were below the belt, why insult a fellow Christian -

Oneway and Idka are more fun, I wish werepuppy, chatuea and Roosh were @ oneway.

Blogger Bootstrapper October 28, 2018 6:34 PM  

"When they see tech giants and massive banks squashing dissidents like bugs, by throwing them off the internet and out of the banking system, some of those normal white people begin to suspect we have been right all along about our rulers." That's what this war all about: winning the hearts and minds of "normies". What better way to do so, than letting your enemy discredit themselves. Every time they shut down someone they disapprove of, every time they "trigger" and behave boorishly in public, a few more normies decide that their interests lie more with the non-Left.

Blogger tz October 28, 2018 6:37 PM  

Idka, ToC 6.2.2
Materials or statements that constitute unlawful utterances, statements, expressions or remarks, whether in respect of libel, privacy, unlawful discrimination or racism, sexism or otherwise

Pre-converged.

I do have to review the earlier posts, as I seem to remember most were over using the LLoE (now LLoD?) to sue Gab over defamation, whereas the criminal (which WAS banned) and pornographic (???) was sotto voce if mentioned.

Beyond that, "having no sympathy" is a loser. I would assume Torba is on the same side, but we are more interested in "having no sympathy" over someone who isn't pure being deplatformed. We cannot win as independent silos.

Recently a unite or die newspaper was found at a Goodwill. It speaks to us today. We have overly aggressive, and incompetent, and otherwise problematic leaders on our side. But I don't know which are which, nor if it is God doing a Joan of Arc.

It was said Voltaire said I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.

The alt-right ought to adopt it and instead of celebrating predicted problems, offer comfort and attempt reconciliation.

As to complaining about using the SJW lefty sites, this, and the YouTubes (which have no MP3 audio only link) are all on SJW lefty sites. Yes, you will jump within the hour when deplatformed, but meanwhile Google tracks and profits from such every time someone who doesn't use tracking and ad blockers visits.

Blogger LP999-16 October 28, 2018 6:42 PM  

Retract/Edit: free speech is best when moderated.

Andrew Torba allowed and condoned horrible, unjust, wicked content towards innocent people.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2018 6:45 PM  

> Oh, I missed it. How did that happen?

He's probably referring to Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank International

Interestingly, IBM is buying Red Hat. That's going to shake things up a bit.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 7:11 PM  

@95

"Interestingly, IBM is buying Red Hat. That's going to shake things up a bit."

Hopefully they'll give the shiv to Poettering and his systemd pals.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 7:17 PM  

Hmmm, looks like Alice Corp. vs CLS Bank International has also skewered software patents.

As the vast majority of software patents do NOT specify (nor are they limited to) "a particular machine" as required in the patent regs, it's about time.

In any other field, an inventor should have a pretty good idea if he's infringing on a patent or not. With software patents, it's downright impossible to have any clue if you're infringing or even close to infringing on a patent.

Plus, the idea that the exact same work can be protected by both patent AND copyright always indicated to me that there was an inherent problem with the very software patents. As well as "business methods" patents -- which force people to participate in business patent farce even if they don't want to do so, just as a defensive measure.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2018 7:17 PM  

> Hopefully they'll give the shiv to Poettering and his systemd pals.

We can only hope. It's not like pulseaudio wasn't warning enough for anyone paying attention.

In that regard:: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/26/systemd_dhcpv6_rce/

Blogger Random #57 October 28, 2018 7:19 PM  

@96 Dirk Manly:

@95

"Interestingly, IBM is buying Red Hat. That's going to shake things up a bit."

Hopefully they'll give the shiv to Poettering and his systemd pals.


That would be dumb, so there's a good chance they'll do it. Dumb, because it's commodifying Linux userspace, and Red Hat wins in an environment where every other major distribution sucks about as badly, but they provide much longer term support.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf October 28, 2018 7:42 PM  

I would imagine 5G and a crypto-based blockchain would allow for a decentralized solution. It seems like everything is within reach...

Blogger SemiSpook37 October 28, 2018 7:43 PM  

@99

The support is really the only thing that Red Hat is capable of doing competently, and even that is somewhat suspect.

I was actually recruited by them a couple of years ago through a proxy. Funny thing about that: the proxy had set up a network call to do an initial interview, but never bothered to show up at the appointed time. Next couple of times the proxy reached out to me, I made sure to give them a piece of my mind.

Anyways, I've been content to work with Slackware (since they rely more on System V vice systemd), but yeah, that support thing is the real focus of a lot of commercial use of Linux.

Blogger VD October 28, 2018 7:54 PM  

Beyond that, "having no sympathy" is a loser. I would assume Torba is on the same side, but we are more interested in "having no sympathy" over someone who isn't pure being deplatformed.

I could not possibly care less. Torba is worse than an enemy. He is not on our side, he is not on our team, and allying with him would be a disaster.

Blogger VD October 28, 2018 7:59 PM  

As to complaining about using the SJW lefty sites, this, and the YouTubes (which have no MP3 audio only link) are all on SJW lefty sites. Yes, you will jump within the hour when deplatformed, but meanwhile Google tracks and profits from such every time someone who doesn't use tracking and ad blockers visits.

You keep pointing out the entirely obvious, as if literally everyone here doesn't know these things. We have our reasons and we will not share them with you.

The alt-right ought to adopt it and instead of celebrating predicted problems, offer comfort and attempt reconciliation.

There will never be any reconciliation with Andrew Torba or with Gab. Let them both burn.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:02 PM  

"That would be dumb, so there's a good chance they'll do it. Dumb, because it's commodifying Linux userspace, and Red Hat wins in an environment where every other major distribution sucks about as badly, but they provide much longer term support."

Systemd does no such thing.

It replaces a somewhat outdated initialization system which takes less than an hour to comprehend, composed of interchangeable parts, each of which is written by subject matter experts...

and replaces it with the equivalent of syshost.exe, which tries to be everything, IN PLACE of dozens of service deamons... written by a team of people who are NOT subject matter experts.... and all controlled by configuration files which literally require that you read and fully comprehend a 300+ page book.

If you say "systemd makes it easier to port Linux to new hardware", you're wrong, because systemd relies upon arcane configuration files which make /etc/termcap and /etc/terminfo look like plain-spoken [insert your everyday conversational language that you use to communicate with your relatives here].

Not only that, but systemd is fundamentally ill-structured in that
1) it's possible for it to have a bug. Process 1 should NEVER be so complex that it can have a bug, and
2) it cannot do what it is advertised to do:
Broken by design: systemd
http://ewontfix.com/14

Systemd has 6 service startup notification types, and they're all wrong:
http://ewontfix.com/15

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:04 PM  

And looking at the article on the register, I see precisely one of the things I mentioned above

"The vulnerability – which was made public this week – sits within the written-from-scratch DHCPv6 client of the open-source Systemd management suite, which is built into various flavors of Linux."

Written from scratch. By the systemd team. Who aren't nearly as smart as they believe themselves to be.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:09 PM  

OH...and the other problem with systemd... Before ANY user-oriented or server-type (as in, get work down on my computer, that's what I bought the damn thing for!) process can begin, systemd IMMEDIATELY grabs hold of the kernel provided containers, and makes them COMPLETELY UNUSABLE BY ANY APPLICATION/SERVER SOFTWARE which might want to use it. (because systemd is process 1)

This means that such servers or applications can ONLY be run on BSD or non-systemd distributions of Linux.

Blogger Random #57 October 28, 2018 8:11 PM  

@104 Dirk Manly:

Perhaps I wasn't clear, for:

[systemd] replaces [traditional text file based initialization systems and so on] with the equivalent of syshost.exe, which tries to be everything, IN PLACE of dozens of service deamons

How is this not commodifying Linux userspace when all the major distributions adopted the ever metastasizing systemd? With the resulting likely end games based on support periods?

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:12 PM  

Torba is literally too stupid to realize who his allies and who his enemies are.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 8:42 PM  

Good god... another systemd bug:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 which allows a "unit" specifying a username that doesn't exist, or one which begins with the digit 0, systemd defaults to running the listed executable as root.

Poettering's initial response: "Systemd isn't misbehaving! How did a username like this get into the system!"

It's then pointed out to Poettering that a username beginning with the digit 0 is a perfectly legal username in ALL of Posix-land: Unix, Linux, and Windows, and that systemd should be reacting to these things more than just putting a line in the systemlog which is very rarely ever read until AFTER something obviously bad happens.

He replies that it's still not systemd's fault.

It's NEVER Poettering's code that's at fault.

How ANYBODY can trust this narcissistic asshole to develop code more critical and significant than a tic-tac-toe game is beyond me.

Blogger Wolfman at Large October 28, 2018 9:29 PM  

Looking forward to DarkLegionTwitter whatever form it takes.

Blogger camcleat October 28, 2018 9:34 PM  

@104:

systemd "tries to be everything, IN PLACE of dozens of service deamons... written by a team of people who are NOT subject matter experts...."

Which in the larger design sense, breaks the Unix model of using a large number of small, highly specific programs.

MS way is highly integrated and interdependent. And design wise, it's a mess.

The Unix way was to keep any errors highly localized, not able to propagate through every aspect of the system.

And, there's that "subject matter expert" thing, which is only reinforced by the "keep tools and services small and tight" model.

It's almost like the systemd devs were trying to completely undermine one the key design features of Linux and turn it into a buggy kludge on purpose. Aka, a form of "convergence."

Blogger Random #57 October 28, 2018 9:59 PM  

@111 camcleat:

It's almost like the systemd devs were trying to completely undermine one the key design features of Linux and turn it into a buggy kludge on purpose. Aka, a form of "convergence."

As @98 James Dixon noted, this is just how Pottering develops software. The question is why Red Hat has given him such an important job, and how it got so intertwined with so many other parts of Linux userland that it hasn't replaced yet. One of the ways they've pushed it on other distros is by making a number of critical pieces of software depend on it.

Blogger Dirk Manly October 28, 2018 11:11 PM  

@112

"As @98 James Dixon noted, this is just how Pottering develops software. The question is why Red Hat has given him such an important job, and how it got so intertwined with so many other parts of Linux userland that it hasn't replaced yet. One of the ways they've pushed it on other distros is by making a number of critical pieces of software depend on it."

The IDIOT CLODS who wrote Gnome3 made systemd a dependency. And Gnome, which allows no significant customization and wastes tons of screen real estate, is the default GUI for Debian, and all of the other distros that use Debian as a parent.

And of course, the SuSE Germans just HAD to jump onto this over-engineered, brittle, non-fault-tolerant pile of crap like a machine-gunned man flopping on-top of an instantaneous-healing grenade -- despite frequent and numerous complaints from the user base, and made it impossible (even without Gnome) to install SysV init instead.

Fucking Germans. They literally don't seem to understand the concept of fault tolerance.
Nor (if you work on any of their car's engines), the concepts of things wearing out and needing repair.

Blogger Garuna October 29, 2018 1:05 AM  

Andrew Torba is an even bigger dirtbag than previously thought. From Cernovich:

I blocked Gab's CEO months ago as he was reporting accounts on Twitter to try get people banned. That was his business strategy. He's a piece of sh-t with no vision or leadership.

He should still be able to run his hell hole website, and it's unfortunate he can't.

--

True story. Gab's CEO was reporting accounts to Twitter for "hate speech." He tried getting me banned, thinking I'd post to his shithole website where people called my beautiful daughter a "mud baby."

Gab is garbage.

And it has a right to exist.

What happened today is bad.


https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1056764064372641792
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1056764962343858176

Blogger Jack October 29, 2018 8:36 AM  

Supreme Court reinterpreted the venue statute to make it harder to venue shop

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2018 12:51 PM  

@91 LP999-16
Oneway and Idka are more fun, I wish werepuppy, chatuea and Roosh were @ oneway.
---

I set up a oneway - @werepuppy .

Blogger Linda Fox October 30, 2018 9:04 AM  

I've set up an Indie Writers Group on Idka. Send a request if you want to be added to the group.

This is NOT for political commentary, but about writing on the Indie platforms, and writing in general.

lfox368806-at-gmail

Blogger Linda Fox October 30, 2018 9:18 AM  

I'm wondering whether a Restraint of Trade argument will fly with the courts. Both politicians and their allies have engaged in coordinated campaigns to restrict legal companies from engaging in their legal, 1st-Amendment-supporting commerce, using regulated industries such as banks, credit companies, and internet providers.
Anyone have another opinion?

Blogger Dirk Manly October 30, 2018 2:59 PM  

Good idea, Linda.

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