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Sunday, December 16, 2018

A society of Secret Kings

Gamma World must resemble the hierarchy of Hell. Another key attribute of the Gamma male is that they cannot endure their own behavior in others.
Kanye East
Vox- I want to talk with you. That's all- I used insults to get your attention- but I'm really concerned about your positions. I just want to talk- but you keep deleting my comments.

VD
Okay, very well, Kanye East. You said you would provide your name, address, and telephone number in order to debate. Post your full legal name, address, and telephone number here in the comments and I'll arrange for you to get a telephone call. If you don't want to do that, go away and stay away.

Kanye East
No- Vox- I'll email you in a way where we can talk without the rest of the trolls attacking me.

VD
No deal, Kanye. You're observably a cowardly little gamma boy. You were willing to troll and attack me, but you aren't willing to endure the very behavior in which you engage yourself. You had your chance. Now you're banned. And you've demonstrated to everyone that you're nothing but talk.
This is why it's best to simply eject Gammas from your social circles, your businesses, your organizations, and your projects as soon as they show their true nature. They simply are not compatible with the smooth functioning of any group; even Gammas can't abide their own behavior in others.

Note the complete social dysfunctionality in the gamma's reasoning. "I insulted you so that you would talk to me about my concerns." So, the gamma insults someone repeatedly, harasses them, and then wonders why the target of their insults and harassment has no interest whatsoever in engaging with them? No wonder women have a hair trigger and go nuclear on men whose behavior betrays even the slightest whiff of gamma.

"I want to talk without trolls attacking me." The hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness here is astounding. Why should the gamma be exempt from the very behavior he has modeled? What if those trolls just want to talk to him? This is why gammas constantly attempt to glom on to new groups and newly encountered high-status individuals: they don't want to be around their own kind any more than anyone else wants to be around them.

Labels:

143 Comments:

Blogger Mark Stoval December 16, 2018 6:16 AM  

"This is why gammas constantly attempt to glom on to new groups and newly encountered high-status individuals: they don't want to be around their own kind any more than anyone else wants to be around them." ~ Vox Day

Excellent observation. The thing I don't get is why they can't see the problem. Women HATE them, real men don't like them, and they don't even like each other. One would think they would seek to change their behavior.

Are they insane? Are they mostly leftists? I read both of Vox's books but don't remember if he addressed sanity or not.

Blogger Constantin December 16, 2018 6:16 AM  

And he is STILL going at it on the other post. I don't know how you have the mentality to handle this kind of shit every day. I would go nuts in just 1 week.

Blogger The Cooler December 16, 2018 6:33 AM  

I take it there are no means by which to keep someone from posting to a Blogger blog, e.g. ban by IP, IP range, username, etc.

Blogger VD December 16, 2018 6:34 AM  

I take it there are no means by which to keep someone from posting to a Blogger blog, e.g. ban by IP, IP range, username, etc.

Blogger is willfully useless in this regard. I've spoken directly to their development team three times over the years. They blithely insist their spam system is very effective.

Blogger Evan Hartshorn December 16, 2018 6:36 AM  

One would think they would seek to change their behavior.

The chief difference between a gamma and a low delta is a propensity to lie to himself. If one ceases to lie to himself, one becomes more delta than gamma in fairly short order.

This is super hard because he has founded large swathes of his identity on lies. He has to go from thinking he is secretly awesome to realizing he kind of sucks. It's a gut wrenching process.

Blogger Silent Draco December 16, 2018 6:39 AM  

Mark, in SJWADD Vox went into some detail about this, just rechecked. A lot is due to their internal pain and anger and shame at being gamma; at the same time, they lie to themselves that they're not gammas. They're in major pain and unable to see constructive outlets to make it go away.

My thought is that they are vampires. They have to latch onto others and suck the life and energy out, because gammas have nothing but a hollow, empty shell. Watch them flinch from seeing their behavior in a mirror, and flee in terror from holy articles and faith in God. Cold iron, like a set of weights, is deadly.

Back to stretching out.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman December 16, 2018 6:45 AM  

I recently hired a subcontractor who has gamma tendencies. Usually everything goes well. He's one of these guys where I can participate in banter, insults and ribbing. So..we throw it back and forth between each other quite often - always in jest. However, just recently we were talking on the phone and he starts bitching about something, I had done, that was annoying him. As he's going on he gets more agitated and personal. It's just a nasty verbal attack. At that point I told him - knock it off. He refused and I hung up the phone. He calls back a few minutes later...I say to him " don't ever come at me like that ever again - it will not be tolerated". His response was " oh I was just joking"
He clearly wasn't joking - so how does one respond?
Honestly - its unnerving to me when this type of behavior comes from men.

Blogger pdwalker December 16, 2018 6:47 AM  

Good heavens. Whack a gamma is a full time job.

Blogger VD December 16, 2018 6:50 AM  

I don't know how you have the mentality to handle this kind of shit every day.

It allows me to indulge my natural cruel streak, on which I normally try to keep a tight lid. To be honest, it can feel rather like finally urinating after a really long car ride.

Winners exult in seeing defeat in their opponent's eyes. The cruel find pleasure in seeing the dawning horror in their victim's eyes. The latter is not an appetite one should encourage, in oneself or in others.

Blogger VD December 16, 2018 6:52 AM  

He clearly wasn't joking - so how does one respond?

Directly. Think how an alpha would respond to a traitorous subordinate.

"Don't you fucking lie to me! You fucking lie to me again and I'm done with you. No, don't fucking lie about it, do you understand what I am telling you? Yes or no. Okay, good, now forget about it."

Anger TERRIFIES Gammas, so it's a useful means of getting them to shut up and stop lying long enough to listen.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman December 16, 2018 6:58 AM  

Vox -
Good points..thank you.

Blogger The Cooler December 16, 2018 7:03 AM  

Blogger [...] They blithely insist their spam system is very effective.

Team Blogger have clearly been bested by the hacking savants in the employ of Mumbai Movers.

Blogger camcleat December 16, 2018 7:05 AM  

@5

"The chief difference between a gamma and a low delta is a propensity to lie to himself. If one ceases to lie to himself, one becomes more delta than gamma in fairly short order.

This is super hard because he has founded large swathes of his identity on lies. He has to go from thinking he is secretly awesome to realizing he kind of sucks. It's a gut wrenching process."

Excellent summary.

Blogger Matthew T December 16, 2018 7:10 AM  

I don't have a lot of experience with Gammas, or how to deal with them, because I've traditionally worked in an environment that shuts dysfunctional behaviour down pretty quick, but with all this talk about Gammas, I just clued in about something that happened maybe a year ago.

Without going into detail, I began working in a new place, where I was automatically fairly high-status by virtue of my role. For no real reason that I grasped at the time, one of the male employees took it upon himself to begin playing what I would characterize as bizarre status games, with annoying, petty behaviour that at times bordered on the inappropriate.

I didn't get it at all at the time; if anything my thought was just along the lines of, like, what the fuck is your deal, bud? - I just want to work here and have a good time; but in retrospect, I see that this dude was totally gamma-ing, like, he couldn't stand that this new guy (me) was coming in with an obviously higher status than him.

Having said all that, I have two questions about it all:

1) Am I right in thinking that this dude was gamma-ing, like, when another man IMMEDIATELY initiates petty and inappropriate status challenges, is it a pretty safe bet you've found a Gamma?

2) Is it generally obvious to everyone (especially to women) that the other guy is the Gamma? Like because I was so taken aback by the whole thing I wasn't totally sure how to deal with it, but looking back, I'm guessing that it's pretty obvious when a dude is acting that way because he's insecure.

Blogger The Cooler December 16, 2018 7:15 AM  

Can Gammas be aimed? I imagine with some skillful placation they're good for something.

Blogger VD December 16, 2018 7:17 AM  

1) yes.

2) if you didn't recognize it, why would the other men. The women almost certainly know, even if they don't have the words for it.

Women are useful Gamma detectors. Just ask them if they would ever have sex with the suspected Gamma. If they are interested or indifferent, he's probably not a Gamma. If they react with horror or outrage, bingo.

Blogger Skyler the Weird December 16, 2018 7:33 AM  

Puts that old TSR game Gamma World in a whole new perspective. "You're coming out of the radioactive ruins and you see a pile of debris to your left that is moving. Something is digging it's way out. It's a Troll! Throw 2 twenties to summon your anger"

Blogger Weak December 16, 2018 7:36 AM  

Anger TERRIFIES Gammas, so it's a useful means of getting them to shut up and stop lying long enough to listen.


Because gammas are bursting at the seams with anger, but they don't know how to express it. They don't even know how to emotionally deal with their internal anger. So it oozes out of them via their bizarre passive aggressive behavior. And others anger terrifies them because it reflects the part of themselves they both hate and fear.

The Delta Man posts on the old AG website are a great resource for escaping gamma. It's very very difficult to do.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 7:46 AM  

# 14
"It's just a nasty verbal attack."
His response was " oh I was just joking"

"bizarre status games, with annoying, petty behavior that at times bordered on the inappropriate."

"petty and inappropriate status challenges"

#6

"they are vampires. They have to latch onto others and suck the life and energy out"

VD
"the gamma insults someone repeatedly, harasses them, and then wonders why the target of their insults and harassment has no interest whatsoever in engaging with them?"


Most of the bosses I've ever had were like this. The military officer corps is filled with toxic people like this.

I wish I had this information about Gammas 25 years ago, it would have saved me a lot of confusion and anger.

I always thought it was something wrong with me. These gammas always seemed to focus like a laser on me throughout my career.

They especially like the "I was just joking" comeback. That classic gaslighting by blaming the victim.

"My behavior isn't the problem, it's just that you don't have a sense of humor."

They are absolutely emotional vampires. Dealing with these people is absolutely draining.

Blogger dienw December 16, 2018 7:59 AM  

@6 Silent Draco
My thought is that they are vampires.

You are right about this fellow in a spiritual sense. A hostile spirit came through in his name choice and his words; I cannot name it; but I felt it.

Thinking about it: he appropriated via his name choice Kayne West's mantle hoping to acquire a portion of his power; but KW's name is an occult choice: "Kayne" equals Cain. Additionally, Vox Day has become more open about his Christian beliefs: I think something came to attack.

This makes Vox the second Christian blogger that I read who is spiritually attacked by hostile entities.


Blogger English Tom December 16, 2018 8:06 AM  

I used insults to gain your attention.

Wow. Does he not understand that the attention he is going to get is not going to be positive?

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 8:12 AM  

The dysgenic effects of a feminized society has made punching people in the face to defend your honor punishable with prison time. Gammas know they'll never have to defend themselves, so they rise to the top of a lot of organizations that have been traditionally "Alpha."

Aggressively insulting, harassing, and status checking is a recipe for success in the modern American military. It's called "Leadership."

Imagine a group of Colonels observing a toxic a-hole Gamma peacocking around the battalion area, yelling at and harassing people. They would all say, "That Major has real leadership potential!" Don't doubt it.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 16, 2018 8:21 AM  

He is trying to suggest that he is honest. At least about this. All the more reason to distrust him. As Vox said about Peterson: Act as if the only honest thing he ever said was that he lies habitually.

Blogger Dire Badger December 16, 2018 8:24 AM  

The best way to stop being Gamma is to shut up and think before running your mouth.

Worked for me. Sometimes my thinking is WRONG, but 'shutting up and thinking' made a monumental difference in the quality of women I could attract.

It's funny, but I think the whole 'Gamma Wife, Delta Wife' Dichotomy sorta shows whether or not a man can learn from experience.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 16, 2018 8:29 AM  

Gamma tendencies are hell that much I can say.

Blogger artensoll December 16, 2018 8:42 AM  

@21. English Tom "Wow. Does he not understand that the attention he is going to get is not going to be positive?"

No. No more than a child who acts up for attention, any attention.

Blogger The Kurgan December 16, 2018 8:53 AM  

The only way to deal with them is directly and unequivocally. I currently have a line manager that I essentially had to tell in no uncertain terms to change his tone immediately twice so far. He then went on an email offensive which has quieted down since I respond to every single one with proof of his own inadequacy.
I’ll not be there long but it’s interesting to see how I can make his blood pressure mount to levels he’s unaccustomed to.

Blogger Duke Norfolk December 16, 2018 9:05 AM  

Mister Excitement wrote:The dysgenic effects of a feminized society has made punching people in the face to defend your honor punishable with prison time.

Yes, I've really come to understand that we've created a real monster by disallowing all violence of this type. It has empowered Gammas, the most awful women, and all sorts of passive aggressive behavior that rends the social fabric.

And a particular (((people))) are also empowered disproportionately, and incentivized to perpetuate this dynamic; particularly through their favorite mechanism: the judiciary.

It's a sick society, through and through.

Blogger tz December 16, 2018 9:05 AM  

Envy is the only deadly sin without any pleasure in its commission.

This popped in another feed:

“Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other. And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus.” – Luke 6:9-11 (KJV)

Gammas envy everyone else, especially alphas, and even if very successful (consider Ted Cruz at the convention) find it easier and better to try to harm or destroy what others have rather than obtain it for themselves. They even attack other gammas.

Blogger Ford Prefect December 16, 2018 9:09 AM  

@1: Mark, self-awareness is an interesting thing and we, humans in general, are often blind to aspects of ourselves. As a programmer, I see this clearly illustrated in bugs in code: a programmer will have a bug in his code but won't be able to see it, yet another programmer will look at the code and go "there's your problem" almost immediately.

Having someone point out our flaws is wonderful, provided, of course, it's someone for whom we have enough respect to actually listen to.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira December 16, 2018 9:13 AM  

Dayum. But it's true though.

Blogger Stickwick Stapers December 16, 2018 9:15 AM  

Women are useful Gamma detectors. Just ask them if they would ever have sex with the suspected Gamma. If they are interested or indifferent, he's probably not a Gamma. If they react with horror or outrage, bingo.

A useful heuristic for me with online gammas is that if I have an urge to punch a guy, he's a gamma. Note that this is not the same as having the urge to slap a man, which usually means a woman is attracted.

As a female scientist on social media, I attract a fair amount of gamma attention, usually atheist. I have no problem nuking those guys. But the most recent encounter was frustrating, because it was ostensibly a "good" Christian who was insistent on teaching me how to interpret science and scripture. I knew he was a gamma after his second response. Excellent grammar, a very measured tone, all while condescending and insulting me under the pretext of "teaching" me.

After giving him a direct warning that his approach was counterproductive, he persisted. At that point, I had no choice but to block him. And then vent by annoying Matthew with fantasies of my fist going into a doughy, clammy gut all the way up to my elbow.

Anyway, if the best approach for a man dealing with a gamma is to show him anger, what's the best approach for a woman? Anger? Scorn? Also, how do I deal publicly with Christian gammas? I've been hesitant to go nuclear on them, because we're ostensibly on the same side, but something is really "off" about these guys. Is there a special way to deal with them, or should I just nuke them the same way I nuke atheist gammas?

Blogger Unknown December 16, 2018 9:17 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger camcleat December 16, 2018 9:18 AM  

"a programmer will have a bug in his code but won't be able to see it, yet another programmer will look at the code and go "there's your problem" almost immediately."

To which the gamma will say: "That's a feature, not a bug."

Blogger Gregory the Great December 16, 2018 9:20 AM  


@artensoll 26:
You wrote: "No. No more than a child who acts up for attention, any attention."
Do we agree that unresolved childhood patterns of behaviour (be they acquired, inborn or reinforeced by trauma) are no excuse for his hehaviour.

Blogger Mom December 16, 2018 9:23 AM  

Proverbs 26:18
Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, Is the man who deceives his neighbor, And says, “I was only joking!”

Blogger artensoll December 16, 2018 9:24 AM  

@35 Abso-bloody-lutely, Mr. the Great.

Blogger Stickwick Stapers December 16, 2018 9:30 AM  

It's interesting to observe the instinctive male response to gammas. One of my husband's roommates in college turned out to be a gamma, despite the fact that he was an enormous football player. One time in the car, this guy was running his mouth to the point that my husband finally pulled over, and told him to get out so they could punch it out. Despite having 40 lbs and 2" on my husband, the guy was horrified. He also didn't seem to understand what it was that drove my husband to this point, and tried to pass it off as joking around.

Most gammas must rely on the restraint of the average man to not get pummeled on a regular basis, but this guy had the extra advantage of being huge and muscular. To some men, that doesn't matter, though.

Blogger English Tom December 16, 2018 9:45 AM  

@Stickwick

Anger can be a very powerful force amplifier.

Blogger Nate December 16, 2018 9:51 AM  

Gammas are women with male chromosomes.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 16, 2018 9:54 AM  

Whomever said that gammas are males exhibiting female behavior patterns was spot on. I remember being regularly bullied by a classmate at some point when I was very young. I was still invited to her birthday party, though. Don't remember any other boys there either.

This whole "I was only pretending to be retarded" mindset is a sign of immaturity. They do not want to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions so they want to sweep it under the rug with wordplay. Nor can they be direct so they play this stupid 3D chess mindgames with themselves.

Blogger Pashka von Borscht December 16, 2018 10:04 AM  

I'm reading Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground for the first time. The most recent chapter I finished was about underground man's obsession with the policeman.

That struck me as being a masterful example of first-person narrative from a gamma character.

Blogger Slen December 16, 2018 10:10 AM  

#32
"Anyway, if the best approach for a man dealing with a gamma is to show him anger, what's the best approach for a woman? Anger? Scorn?..."

Ridicule. Thomas More noted that even “The devil…that proud spirit…cannot endure to be mocked.”

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 10:13 AM  

Is Gamma a personality disorder in men? I know it's not a DSM thing, but is it more along the lines of a disorder or a personality "type?" The people in which I've see the most Gamma traits usually have some other thing about them like low self-esteem or being a homo. You can point out their bad behavior and they are incapable of stopping.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 16, 2018 10:19 AM  

Tars Tarkusz wrote:Is Gamma a personality disorder in men?
Why does it matter? If you define it as a "disorder" doesn't imply it's rare nor does it imply it's treatable. Distinction without a difference.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 10:30 AM  

Wuzzums Fuzzums wrote:Why does it matter? If you define it as a "disorder" doesn't imply it's rare nor does it imply it's treatable. Distinction without a difference.
Because my instincts say it's a disorder. If it is a disorder, there is very little chance that any Gamma is going to stop being a Gamma, ever. I had an IRL bad interaction with a Gamma yesterday and so it's really on my mind.

Blogger Dominik K. December 16, 2018 10:32 AM  

I'm looking forward to VD'S special on voxiversity about Gammas. I've read so much on this blog and in the comments, but I'm still not sure to be able to correctly identify a Gamma.
Right now I would say that every guy with a big mouth who is annoying and is not an Alpha is a Gamma.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 10:46 AM  

"Right now I would say that every guy with a big mouth who is annoying and is not an Alpha is a Gamma."

That's a good indicator.

My experience is that having a real Alpha around is a joy. My best friend since childhood is an Alpha and is the nicest guy you'll ever meet.

Vox has said Owen Benjamin and Alex Jones are both Alpha. It would be great to hang out with those two guys. They are genuinely nice and kind men.

Gammas on the other hand are poison and create chaos.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 16, 2018 10:47 AM  

Tars Tarkusz wrote:Because my instincts say it's a disorder. If it is a disorder, there is very little chance that any Gamma is going to stop being a Gamma, ever.

But again, a "disorder" doesn't mean anything, it's just word magic used by insurance lawyers or pharmaceutical representatives. Medically speaking some disorders can be cured, others not. If the DSM decides upon it being a disorder, gammas will still act like they did before being qualified as having some disorder.

For instance the shizoid personality type is classified as a disorder by the DSM. But schizoids don't really care to be treated because they are very comfortable with how they are so is it really a disorder if it doesn't affect the person having it?

I know someone wrote a series of blog posts about curing the disorder that is gamma: http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2015/02/graduating-gamma-1.html
However we can never tell what the success rate of such a treatment is because I doubt gammas think of themselves as gammas.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 16, 2018 10:50 AM  

Mister Excitement wrote:Vox has said Owen Benjamin and Alex Jones are both Alpha.

That's another great indicator. If they hate the Alpha they are Gamma. If they love the Alpha hey are Delta. If they love the Alpha and are close friends with the Alpha they are Betas.

Blogger Damelon Brinn December 16, 2018 11:07 AM  

I'm still not sure to be able to correctly identify a Gamma.

In addition to being annoying enough that you want to punch them, that "I was just joking" thing people keep reporting is a dead giveaway. There's a slipperiness to the Gamma that he has honed over years of pushing decent people's buttons and then using their natural tendency to give the benefit of the doubt to slip away from responsibility. Arguing or having a discussion with one quickly becomes exhausting, because for him it's never really about the topic, but about beating you in his mind. When you're trying to have an honest discussion and it seems like the other guy keeps missing obvious points you're making, he's probably a Gamma doing it on purpose.

Blogger Autumn K December 16, 2018 11:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Autumn K December 16, 2018 11:22 AM  

Gammas aren't women, but they are heavily influenced by a female role model or moral authority of some sort. The classic example would be the son of a single mother, or perhaps the son of a mother who went through a few marriages. The child is emotionally dominated by a self-righteous figure, and he gets mixed messages about his position in society.

On one hand, the son, of course, loves the mother and struggles to mimic her behavior. On the other hand, the son resents the self-righteous attitude of his female role model, especially because he is often a subtle punching bag for her passive aggressive abuse.

So as the son learns to mimic the female authority figure, he fails to find his place as a man. Instead of developing a core trust in his physical strength, he enters a shadowy and confusing world where words and cold-shoulders are weapons. Emotional slights are wounds to him just as surely as a black eye would be to another.

In the midst of this constant social war the son learns to protect himself. He walls off a section of his being, a place where his "real being" can be safe. Everything else is an act. Often a well-rehearsed act, but just a weaponized personality that allows him to navigate through life. His jokes. His snark. His bluster. None of it's real. These are all tools to either avoid his own pain or cause pain to others.

The "secret" place inside of the son is overly romantic, again drawing from his feminine influence, and it's exacerbated by modern media. The son learns about true love watching television. That's the great escape. True love. Finally, a way to be partners with a woman, to be true equals, to not be at odds. It's like an escape from prison, but ultimately too good to be true. Of course, no woman ever lives up to the son's romanticized ideal, and thus the cycle of love and resentment continues in his heart, leaving him corrupt and bitter, yet still thoroughly convinced of his own pure goodness. After all, is his love not true? Is the love he's willing to offer not righteous? And so the son has become the mother.

The cure for the gamma is a return to the Father. The gamma must face his own sins and stand before God absent pride before he can claim his true inheritance in the world.

The gamma has allowed sin to control his life. And by sin, I specifically mean: Pride, Lust, Envy, Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, and Laziness. The gamma must self-reflect upon these sins and gain control over them.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 11:25 AM  

Wuzzums Fuzzums wrote:But again, a "disorder" doesn't mean anything, it's just word magic used by insurance lawyers or pharmaceutical representatives.
I suppose you're right in that sense. I see a lot of men who occasionally do Gamma things, but usually it's just a moment of spergery. The true Gamma exhibits this behavior all the time. They are not normal. They are very high strung, overly emotional and have a knack for reacting the wrong way to virtually every situation. The Secret King thing is spot on, too. Whenever they have even a tiny amount of power, they abuse it.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 11:26 AM  

From Graduating Gamma 4

"Everything from a Gamma is a con or a presented image because behind that shell is a scared, miserable boy who uses whatever tools are at his disposal to build the Gamma Delusion Bubble."

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2015/03/graduating-gamma-4.html


Before anybody takes pity on the "scared miserable boy," do a few minutes of reading on Narcissists. Gammas, Narcissists, and Sociopaths have very similar behavior patterns.

Gamma behavior is toxic and destructive to other people.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 11:31 AM  

#54

"They are very high strung, overly emotional and have a knack for reacting the wrong way to virtually every situation. The Secret King thing is spot on, too. Whenever they have even a tiny amount of power, they abuse it."

That is an excellent description. Thank you.

Sounds like you've worked for some of my old bosses.

The tragedy of the modern American Gamma is that they have a knack for rising to the highest levels of power. They simply destroy those around them and are the last man standing.

Make Punching Legal Again

Blogger Dave December 16, 2018 11:37 AM  

VD wrote:I don't know how you have the mentality to handle this kind of shit every day.

It allows me to indulge my natural cruel streak, on which I normally try to keep a tight lid. To be honest, it can feel rather like finally urinating after a really long car ride.

Winners exult in seeing defeat in their opponent's eyes. The cruel find pleasure in seeing the dawning horror in their victim's eyes. The latter is not an appetite one should encourage, in oneself or in others.


Ah, now things are coming more into focus. When I think you're slow to act sometimes or not acting with the viciousness that appears to be justified in the situation, what you're doing is keeping a lid on the natural ruthlessness and savageness which every Dark Lord endeavors to keep tamped down inside him.

If that cruel streak was to become fully unleashed, the reality of the horrors would be too terrible to imagine.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 11:41 AM  

Mister Excitement wrote:Sounds like you've worked for some of my old bosses.
Nothing can ruin a job like working for a Gamma. I worked for this Sodomite Gamma once and one night he pushed me way too far and I threatened to throw him off a balcony. Luckily the second in charge was a good guy and the dept manager called him to find out what went on. He had to apologize to me the next day after trying to get me fired. He quit shortly thereafter.

Blogger Matthew T December 16, 2018 11:42 AM  

I appreciate the answers to my question.

@Mister Excitement

--> I always thought it was something wrong with me.

Yeah, I did too, that time, like I wondered did I offend this dude somehow, because if I didn't I just don't get what his deal is.

--> They are absolutely emotional vampires. Dealing with these people is absolutely draining.

Yeah, and my little anecdote underscores something that VD has said about them, which is that you've got to police them out of your place. The organization I went to work for nearly lost a talented asset (me) because I didn't feel like working with that douche again. Luckily I've never seen him again.

Blogger lowercaseb December 16, 2018 11:43 AM  

Nate wrote:Gammas are women with male chromosomes.

Exactly...and the reason we are seeing more and more of them nowadays is because most conflicts are being resolved through "Mean Girls" rules. I'm sure a good amount of these freshly minted gammas would evolve if they ever got an ass whooping in real life that they could not run to the government or a self-help group to comfort them and avenge their wounded pride.

Blogger Patrick Charles December 16, 2018 12:10 PM  

If this guy is remotely familiar with Vox, how did he manage to come to the conclusion that insulting him to get his attention was a good idea and would work out well? Gamma delusion must be powerful.

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 12:38 PM  

Mister Excitement wrote:Most of the bosses I've ever had were like this. The military officer corps is filled with toxic people like this.

It's really interesting to me that the military officer ranks are filled with gammas. I had an idea in my head - probably formed by a lot of TV/movies and pop culture which means it is half or fully nonsense - that the harsh discipline and humiliation rituals of basic training are designed to stamp out that secret-king impulse.

Is that not really a thing, does it not work as intended, or are there gammas who are actually ambitious enough to fake their way through all of that in order to rise up the ranks?

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 12:48 PM  

Stickwick Stapers wrote:Anyway, if the best approach for a man dealing with a gamma is to show him anger, what's the best approach for a woman?

Mockery and ridicule from a woman deflates a gamma very quickly.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 12:50 PM  

Lance E,

Officer world is vastly different from enlisted world. The gammas congregate in officer world. Enlisted men love to beat the shit out of gammas.

Blogger Welsh Woodsman December 16, 2018 12:57 PM  

“I’m sure a good amount would evolve if they got a good ass whipping”

A previous job site incident comes to mind. A gamma type guy -after running his mouth- threw a piece of wood at me. Without breaking stride I picked it up and walloped him. I knew it hurt- as his expression said as much.
He was like a well trained house pet after that.
As a former mentor once told me: “ there are some guys who only understand the whip”

Blogger Robin December 16, 2018 1:04 PM  

Reading “Kanye’s” comments, I note what I think is a gamma feature: he imagines that there is always some sort of relationship. Right to the end he’s writing things like “ok, I’m going now, but if we can just agree...”. Somehow in his mind, nothing he can do causes him to be actually ostracized, which is to say go past the point at which Vox stops warning him and takes unilateral action. The gamma shows up to try and nuke the relationship with insults, then counterintuitively fights like hell to pretend that it’s still in place, and that somehow he can always have a say in things through it. Reading above, this is the whole “I was just joking” move.

It makes me wonder, is it an attribute of gamma to be unable to survive outside the group? What happens to a gamma left alone?

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 1:06 PM  

Stickwick Stapers wrote:Anyway, if the best approach for a man dealing with a gamma is to show him anger, what's the best approach for a woman?

Never show any anger to a Gamma or anyone else online. In most cases, your anger is impotent rage. Anger works IRL because they are cowards at heart. But you really have no ability to do anything to some random douche on social media.
As for women, humiliation is the best way, I think, for a woman to put one in his place. Nothing digs at the secret king like being made to look a fool in front of his subjects.

Blogger VD December 16, 2018 1:20 PM  

But you really have no ability to do anything to some random douche on social media.

Want to bet?

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 1:24 PM  

@62

Officers don't go through Basic Training. There are a lot of Gamma officers, but the NCO corps is filled with good guys. Real military professionals.

The officer corps is nothing more than overpaid bureaucrats that sit in meetings and do Powerpoint slides all day. My advice to any young man that wants to really do cool stuff in the Army and be a real leader: Enlist. Don't go through ROTC or West Point. Don't be an officer.

Gamma officers know that they have the UCMJ on their side and use that to their advantage. I've seen Super Gammas with Ranger tabs.

The Toxic Leadership problem in the Army got so bad, that the Army started a proactive program to address it several years ago. It even changed its performance evaluation system to root out these people.

Blogger Jail Cussox December 16, 2018 1:27 PM  

The anger bit makes so much sense.

Particularly with Catholic gammas.

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 1:40 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Lance E,

Officer world is vastly different from enlisted world. The gammas congregate in officer world. Enlisted men love to beat the shit out of gammas.


I wondered how they become officers in the first place, without washing out in the lower ranks. Do they all get directly commissioned? @69 hinted at this too, but I always got the impression that most officers got there by promotion.

Yes, we civilians know absolutely nothing about how the military really works.

Blogger Unknown December 16, 2018 1:48 PM  

Not only do they not want to be around their own kind, they tend to resent alphas and to see them as an existential threat even when they are trying to cling on to them to elevate their social status in society. Add to it the rejection of women and their narcissistic tendencies and little wonder how they end up being, unfailingly statists and cult-type followers.

Blogger Skyler the Weird December 16, 2018 1:52 PM  

I went through ROTC basic training at Ft. Knox and verify it's totally different from real Basic. The Drill Sergeants treated everyone with kid gloves. There were three squads of men and one of women in each platoon (Carter years) and the ladies had it really easy.

Looking back I wish I'd have gone thru the ranks and OCS instead. I would have done a lot better career wise.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 2:01 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger 1st Earl Hardwicke December 16, 2018 2:10 PM  

Instead of being King. What are Gammas really after, acknowledgement? Kings get murdered mentally or physically... flung from a bridge. Secret king, as in influencing covertly?

Is there any advantage to being a Gamma, there must be something, otherwise they wouldn't exist right?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 2:23 PM  

Lance E.,

The vast majority of commissioned officers are directly commissioned:

O1-O10 (Lieutenant/Ensign through General/Admiral) are the service academy grads, ROTC guys for the most part.

The rest are the mustang officers. Those are the guys you are thinking of, the battlefield commissions, the enlisted to officer programs, etc. USMC calls them mustang, I am not sure what the other services call them. These are your better officers, but it's rare as hen's teeth to see a Mustang get higher than LtCol, just because of the time they spend as enlisted instead of officer.

CWO1/W1-CWO5/W5 (Warrant Officers): These are enlisted NCO's and staff/senior NCO's. These guys lead tech and mechanical platoons, some fly choppers in other services, and generally are the repository of unit technical knowledge or tactical experience with heavy weapons, machine guns, rocket launchers, etc.

Enlisted guys love to bang female 2nd/1st Lieutenants because they are usually the hottest college chicks or college athletes. A common battlefield trophy at Fleet Week is the underwear of a female lieutenant. The officers and enlisted are all descending on the bars and clubs of a place like NYC, LA, San Diego, Miami, etc. So getting a lieutenant chick drunk is easy, and they are all carousel riders anyway. Sergeants, especially combat arms Sergeants, are like captains of the high school football team, so most lieutenants want to bang them any way.

Blogger Houston December 16, 2018 2:23 PM  

"Is there any advantage to being a Gamma, there must be something, otherwise they wouldn't exist right?"

No, at best it's a set of deeply flawed coping mechanisms. The only conceivable advantage - illusory though it is - is avoiding the social oblivion of Omega status.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz December 16, 2018 2:27 PM  

VD wrote:But you really have no ability to do anything to some random douche on social media.

Want to bet?


Is the cripple story on the blog anywhere? You mentioned it a couple of times, but I don't recall the incident or happened before I was following you.

Blogger M.S. December 16, 2018 2:34 PM  

"Is there any advantage to being a Gamma, there must be something, otherwise they wouldn't exist right?"

Not really any advantages. Gamma is what we end up with when a high IQ man's life goes wrong and he ends up as a low-quality/inferior person but he's intelligent enough to lie and rationalize and convince himself that he's the superior one. The ultimate Gamma male is Satan.

Blogger Hammerli280 December 16, 2018 2:42 PM  

I've never understood the willingness of people to be badly behaved in blog comments. Maybe I'm too much Old School, regarding a blog as the owner's living room and holding myself to the behavior appropriate to a guest.

@76: The Navy calls officers promoted from the ranks "Mustangs", too. I suspect the proportion of Gammas in the officer cadres depends greatly on the service, and the branch of service. It seems to be scarce in Naval Aviation.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 2:45 PM  

Hammerli280,

Obviously, the gamma ranks would be low in any aviation, combat arms MOS. If you are incompetent, you die, and kill anyone else with you. You can't lie to the ground approaching at 600 knots, or a failed field exercise. Gammas cluster in the staff ranks, bureaucracy, the Pentagon, etc.

Blogger 1st Earl Hardwicke December 16, 2018 2:45 PM  

I suppose even with Gamma you are more likely to reproduce than Omega. Eliminating any potential quality, though, except maybe through probability or luck. Spray and Prey I guess.

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 2:49 PM  

Thanks for the replies @73 @74 and @76. That explains a whole lot about the institutional decline. So a Captain or Colonel or even a General can be someone with hardly any real combat experience.

I assume these people also infest the veteran's groups, so that amongst the combat vets you also have a bunch of gammas who got kicked out or encouraged to leave because nobody could stand them.

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 2:56 PM  

Houston wrote:The only conceivable advantage - illusory though it is - is avoiding the social oblivion of Omega status.

Is that illusory, though? SSH rule of thumb is that gammas are just significantly below-average in terms of LSP, whereas omegas are lucky to have even one.

Omegas probably annoy people less by virtue of never being around, but that's small consolation for dying alone.

Blogger James Pyrich December 16, 2018 2:59 PM  

Blogger is willfully useless in this regard. I've spoken directly to their development team three times over the years. They blithely insist their spam system is very effective.

Gamma rage is a feature, not a bug.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 3:00 PM  

"So a Captain or Colonel or even a General can be someone with hardly any real combat experience."

Absolutely. Remember this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel_L._Honor%C3%A9

Retired as a 3 Star. No combat experience. I was in his Brigade when he was a Colonel. He was toxic and absolutely a freaking weirdo. Don't know if he was a Gamma though.

No combat experience required. You don't even have to be a man, baby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_United_States_military_generals_and_flag_officers

https://www.hqmc.marines.mil/DirC4Bio/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadja_West

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 3:06 PM  

Lance E,

Remember Col David Hackworth's criticism of the Vietnam War and other conflicts being led by the "Perfumed Princes"?

Blogger matveidaniilovich December 16, 2018 3:07 PM  

Why have I never heard of Vox attacking a crippled person before? I've been on a personal campaign ever since it dawned on me how they're always taking the best parking spots at stores.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 3:07 PM  

Also, this is why USMC glory/general ranks/command/Commandant potential was limited to infantry officers. That was the only track to getting a crack at the storied ranks of the Corps. The recent shitty commandants like Amos have been....not infantry.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 16, 2018 3:12 PM  

Lance E wrote:Mister Excitement wrote:Most of the bosses I've ever had were like this. The military officer corps is filled with toxic people like this.

It's really interesting to me that the military officer ranks are filled with gammas. I had an idea in my head - probably formed by a lot of TV/movies and pop culture which means it is half or fully nonsense - that the harsh discipline and humiliation rituals of basic training are designed to stamp out that secret-king impulse.

Is that not really a thing, does it not work as intended, or are there gammas who are actually ambitious enough to fake their way through all of that in order to rise up the ranks?

Enlisted and officer are worlds apart; you can very often tell the difference between an officer who was enlisted prior. Another thing that is interesting to note is how officers are more prone to devalue the menial work of lower-enlisted: for example, given a PFC mopping the floor fellow enlisted are more apt to go around, or apologize if they have to walk on it, while officers don't.


Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 16, 2018 3:16 PM  

Because everyone who was enlisted has had to swab the deck, fill sandbags, field day, eat shit, like it, start at the bottom, earn respect (or not), etc.

Officers start at the top. The good officers will be that way because they had a good dad: the platoon/company/battalion senior enlisted who serves the equivalent of the slave whispering in Caesar's ear. The bad ones had a weak senior enlisted. This is why the NCO corps is the backbone of the military.

Blogger Dave December 16, 2018 3:31 PM  

Tars Tarkusz wrote:VD wrote:But you really have no ability to do anything to some random douche on social media.

Want to bet?


Is the cripple story on the blog anywhere? You mentioned it a couple of times, but I don't recall the incident or happened before I was following you.


Looking to hedge your bet, Tars? Select the Banned Trolls link under Topics on the left sidebar and look for posts on troll hunting from 3-4 years ago.

Blogger Dave December 16, 2018 3:44 PM  

@Matvei

I don't believe anyone had any idea the guy was crippled before they tracked him down.

I understand your frustration with the disabled parking spots. The worst offenders are the people that obviously scammed some doctor; they pull up, jump out of their vehicle, and saunter into the store. Meanwhile, somebody that really needed that spot is out of luck.

Blogger Hammerli280 December 16, 2018 4:13 PM  

@91: Yup. Part of the job of a senior NCO is to turn field-grade officers into competent staff-grade officers.

And as wiser men than I have said, God bless all Chiefs.

I'll add that some foreign services made a point of having officer cadets spend six months or a year in the ranks. Worked pretty well for some guy named Bonaparte.

Blogger Rhys December 16, 2018 5:57 PM  

My encounters with gammas are far less numerous than Vox, being that I'm not a public figure, but I can absolutely attest to the fact that anything threatening, or even politely rebuking, the secret kangz syndrome will result in absolute fury from the gamma. I'm willing we've all been there: regardless of how polite you are, if you don't immediately take the gamma's unsolicited advice, they will follow up with "Oh so you're TRYING to make it a completely piece of shit, ok well I didn't know that's what you were going for"...even if they did just say they liked it not even two replies before.

It's completely inane.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 6:06 PM  

Open Question for anybody:

Are toxic people only Gammas, or just most toxic people just happen to be Gammas? Is being a toxic person specifically a Gamma thing?

Blogger MeneMene December 16, 2018 6:21 PM  

Gamma describes my older brother to a t. It was hell growing up with him in the family. He terrorized all us younger kids, but me especially. His main weapon was ridicule. I just took it all meekly until my first son was born. One day he began making fun of my toddler son and in seconds I was a foot taller and angry as hell: “Don’t you DARE do to him what you did to me!!!!”
I was shocked by how effective it was. It did what all the clever or cruel repartee never did. He shut up and never did it again. If only I had known when I was a child myself.

His adult understanding of our childhood dynamic is that he was the strong and loving presence that held the family together. Good grief.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf December 16, 2018 6:41 PM  

Oh my gosh, I met a super secret king who, even though unemployed and mooching off his girlfriend's father, created this insane plan to (essentially become Elon Musk with the charm of Iron Man) and fake his own death in some idiotic plan crash so "the world will mourn me" (but I'll still be alive to enjoy it). He went on for about 30 minutes and has been living this delusion for 5 years.

I was nearly speechless. Anyway, I must have given him the worse look because he has completely avoided me ever since.

Before reading about VOX's psychosocial hierarchy I'd have racked him up to being insane. But he's actually an excellent gamma specimen. Perhaps one of the best? I mean it'd take serious effort to be this gamma.

Now I want a DNA sample for analysis. Maybe he could provide an insight into dysgenics?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 16, 2018 6:43 PM  

The level of social cluelessness that is needed to ridicule someone else's child is off the charts. Damn.

Blogger Nate73 December 16, 2018 6:52 PM  

Can someone pump iron regularly and still be a gamma? Are there "anti-tells", i.e. traits that indicate a very low % chance someone is a gamma?

Blogger Lance E December 16, 2018 8:02 PM  

Mister Excitement wrote:Are toxic people only Gammas, or just most toxic people just happen to be Gammas?

Neither, since "toxic" is a nonspecific term used to describe anyone causing problems for an individual or institution. SJWs use that term all the time to describe thought-criminals. The sociopathic cads who are revered in the manosphere are toxic to many women and certainly toxic to any community attempting to retain traditional morality. "Lambdas" and women are toxic to most male institutions, especially those involving young boys. Some betas and deltas become lazy or dysfunctional in the absence of strong leadership, and thus toxic to their company.

Gamma refers to a specific pattern of behavior. Toxic is a value judgment.

Blogger Mister Excitement December 16, 2018 8:21 PM  

@101

Thank you.

What I meant was if Deltas or Alphas can be a bullying jerk like a Gamma, or is that exclusively Gamma behavior?

Blogger Helldoge Desotryer December 16, 2018 10:22 PM  

Yeah, jokes are often in a mean spirit.
And I'm doubtless that he has no clue what he's doing.
In other words he's most definitely possessed.

Gammas think like women, and gammas can't help go for sigmas and alphas.

Blogger Helldoge Desotryer December 16, 2018 10:31 PM  

I most definitely agree.
I know one gamma that's gotten away with being a complete cunt toward men with incredibly violent backgrounds. They would conspire, but eventually settle on the fact that he'd call the cops.


Eventually I fucked with his head for long enough and he attacked me. I beat the shit out of him. Fucker still didn't learn... now there's this story circling around about me being crazy and "wanting to fight him from the start."
Oh, and also that I lost the fight.

If you could just hit them when they're being cunts, eventually they would learn.

Blogger Helldoge Desotryer December 16, 2018 10:37 PM  

And when you reassert that it's most definitely a bug, he goes:
"Haha no bugs are in the ground." xDxDxddx...

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook December 16, 2018 10:42 PM  

Do gammas have a similar sort of fashion or listen to the same kind of music? Like the anime kid who listens to lincoln park?

Blogger Helldoge Desotryer December 16, 2018 10:46 PM  

Sounds like rationalizing to me. Sounds like an excuse.
Don't tell yourself it's a fucking disorder. Stick to the Voxian lable or get your own taxonomy.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2018 2:38 AM  

Do gammas have a similar sort of fashion or listen to the same kind of music?

Music has such a wide variety that while they wouldn't listen to the exact same kind of music, there will be a commonality between the music gammas will gravitate towards. What that commonality is, I can't pinpoint at the moment.

It'd be interesting to me whether gammas hew strongly away from instrumentals toward music with lyrics that reaffirm their reality-denying bubble, or if it doesn't actually change much of anything. Perhaps they'd gravitate more toward instrumentals since you can mentally insert a lot of your own meaning into a piece, particularly if the listener is skilled in mental gymnastics.

Blogger Student in Blue December 17, 2018 2:51 AM  

Given that gammas are essentially a man acting like a woman, is it a good strategy to handle them like a woman?

And by that I don't mean flirting with them, of course.

As an aside,
Gammas being men with woman-ish thinking dovetails quite nicely in with regular women not being interested in having sex with them, and also with the fact that whatever female type they manage to marry looking like a butch lesbian.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants December 17, 2018 3:13 AM  

No. They make women furious & disgust us with their weakness & passive aggressive behavior.
If I wanted to have sex with a woman, I'd become a lesbian.

Blogger Dominik K. December 17, 2018 4:21 AM  

That's helpful, thank you. Especially in online discussion I have the feeling that some people are ignoring my valid points and don't want to give up their way of thinking. Until now I just took it as some left wing nut jobs, but they are really irritating, I would almost love to punch them and the discussions are going nowhere....so I'm beginning to see, that these could all be just Gammas.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 17, 2018 5:11 AM  

I see you are bashing Peterson again

Blogger Harry Goldblatt MD December 17, 2018 5:15 AM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Lance E,

Remember Col David Hackworth's criticism of the Vietnam War and other conflicts being led by the "Perfumed Princes"?


I read "About Face" and it is a very interesting account of the dynamics in the army officer corps. It was apparently dysfunctional back then and the armed forces of the 70'ties were at a much higher level of combat readiness than anything today.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 5:28 AM  

@4

"Blogger is willfully useless in this regard. I've spoken directly to their development team three times over the years. They blithely insist their spam system is very effective."

Effective for them doesn't necessarily mean effective for blog owners.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 5:48 AM  

@22

"Imagine a group of Colonels observing a toxic a-hole Gamma peacocking around the battalion area, yelling at and harassing people. They would all say, "That Major has real leadership potential!" Don't doubt it."

Thank God it isn't that way in the infantry. Most infantry units generally have their dailly meetings, which includes the senior NCO's. After that, they let the NCO's run the show. The officers are just there to do planning, report writing, and other intellectual work. An officer really doesn't know what he's doing until a platoon sergeant has spent 2 years bringing him up to speed. Good company or battalion commanders will tell new officers to keep their nose out of anything that's NCO business. David Hackworth used to sit down his new 2nd Lieutenants with their platoon sergeant, and ask some questions:

Hackworth: "PSG, What do you?"
PSG: "I run the platoon."
Hackworth: "How long have you been running the platoon?"
PSG: "Since the time Captain Johnson was in college."
Hackworth: "What do you want to do?"
PSG: "Run my platoon."

He would then dismiss the PSG, and tell the 2LT to listen to the PSG, and if the PSG tells him to go find something else to do, then follow his instructions, because there's nothing worse for an OER (Officer Efficiency Rating) than wasting your time trying to do the platoon sergeant's job... and doing it so POORLY, that now you're making more work for the PSG.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 5:58 AM  

@30

"Mark, self-awareness is an interesting thing and we, humans in general, are often blind to aspects of ourselves. As a programmer, I see this clearly illustrated in bugs in code: a programmer will have a bug in his code but won't be able to see it, yet another programmer will look at the code and go "there's your problem" almost immediately."


That is so true.

I can't remember the number of times in school (back in the days of terminal rooms, because a 1 MHz, 1 MByte machine cost $500,000 and ate 240V tri-phase current) when one of my friends or I had a bug which we couldn't find, and upon handing off a printout of the code to someone else among us, the bug would be found in under 30 seconds. It really is amazing. And none of it was ever one way.

I even had the joy once, looking for a bug in one of my friend's programs when he was taking Lisp.... which I did NOT know yet.
And yes, I found the bug. It took about 5 minutes...(what is this car function()? What's cdr?... whats cadr()?) but he had been wrestling with it for almost an hour.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:09 AM  

@35

"Do we agree that unresolved childhood patterns of behaviour (be they acquired, inborn or reinforeced by trauma) are no excuse for his hehaviour."

Causation does not create license, nor an excuse.

Unacceptable social behavior is unacceptable.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:16 AM  

@42

"I'm reading Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground for the first time. The most recent chapter I finished was about underground man's obsession with the policeman.

That struck me as being a masterful example of first-person narrative from a gamma character."

I used to date this Russian chick (Should have married her before her visa expired... even though it would have been rushing things since we had only known each other for 90 days or so).... and she absolutely had nothing good to say about Dosteovsky.

And this woman was both well read and intelligent -- and fluent in English, German, French.

Before dating her, I had suspected that a lot of American women were really messed up (like demanding apologies for committing some physical act which not only had I not done it, nobody else had, either... which more than one gf had exhibited.) After going out with her for about a month, I absolutely KNEW there was something wrong with most American women.

This was before the all the (euphemistically called "mail order") relationships businesses came on the scene.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:31 AM  

@57


In Iraq, we had a good way for keeping down these sorts of behaviors -- A lot of the mid-size and bases had a full-sized boxing ring set up Friday Night Fights. Sometimes the fighters were fighting just for fun.... sometimes as a legal form of dueling.... and sometimes because their First Sergeant saw someone being a constant asshole, and ordered the tormenter into the ring with one of the tormented.

Shit got put under control real fast.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:39 AM  

@69

"
The Toxic Leadership problem in the Army got so bad, that the Army started a proactive program to address it several years ago. It even changed its performance evaluation system to root out these people."

And EVERY SINGLE ENLISTED MAN IN THE ARMY has had to take an anonymous survey about it. Not just once, but on a yearly basis. Look up "Command Climate" survey.

I've been lucky, I think --- maybe it's due to spending all my years in the reserve components -- the work/pay+benefits ratio for an officer isn't nearly as good in the National Guard or Reserves as in the regular army.... which means the officers who stay around tend to be more of the ones who really want to get the job done, not lord their rank over subordinates.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:44 AM  

@71

"I wondered how they become officers in the first place, without washing out in the lower ranks."

Because you don't have to spend even one day as an enlisted man to become an officer.

You can go through ROTC, or one of the academies, or VMI, the Citedel, or a couple other schools, and come out with a commission. Of course, they DO have to go through OBC (The Officer's Basic Course)... which isn't easy. One mandatory pass/fail test is a 12-mile ruck-march in full gear, which MUST be completed in 3 hours flat. Each officer is allowed to set his own pace.
For those who don't know, that's the same requirement as part of the EIB (Expert Infantry Badge) test, and also a requirement to graduate from Air Assault School.

AAS is really cruel -- they hold the ruck march on the last day. The march starts at 0900. The march is routed to end directly at the location of the graduation ceremony. Graduation is held at precisely noon. If you're not there, you don't graduate.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 6:54 AM  

"Do they all get directly commissioned? @69 hinted at this too, but I always got the impression that most officers got there by promotion."

If you have a nursing degree, you can come in with a direct commission as a 2nd Lieutenant, or Ensign (for Navy types) -- lowest officer rank, O-1. Single gold bar for rank.

If you have a Divinity Degree (and come in as a Chaplain) or a Medical Degree (even if you haven't passed the medical board yet), you can come in with a direct commission to O-3 (Captain... except for the navy, in which an O-3 is called a Lieutenant, as opposed to Lieutenant, Junior Grade). 2 silver (or if subdued black) bars. Sometimes called "railroad tracks) because of the thin bars connecting the two large bars in the pin-on rank version.

Everyone else has gone through an academy (either a service academy, or officially civilian, like VMI, but run by officers and NCOs... some retired, some not), OR they went to OCS (Officer's Candidate School -- which is how an enlisted man can become an officer without going through the above... but he has to have 60 credit hours of college, and must complete a 4-year degree to make O-3)... or be "Battlefield Commissioned"... the latter happens ONLY in wartime, and usually only when a unit has run out of officers (through either casualties, illness, or being fired -- Patton once did that to a company... all the officers failed to take some objective... after passing off command from one after another...and relieving each of them, he saw a platoon sergeant, pinned some 2nd Lieutenant bars on his collar, and told him to take it, adding, "and if you don't, I'll fire you, too."

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:08 AM  

@73

"I went through ROTC basic training at Ft. Knox and verify it's totally different from real Basic. The Drill Sergeants treated everyone with kid gloves. There were three squads of men and one of women in each platoon (Carter years) and the ladies had it really easy."

This is why for O-1, O2, and O3 ranks, there are also O-1E, O-2E, and O-3E pay grades. Same rank, but higher pay for officer up to O-3 who spent at least 4 years as an enlisted man before training to be an officer.

O-xE officers tend to be a lot better. They tend to be a LOT better at having stuff organized so that the enlisted aren't wasting time doing things separately that could have been done together, all at once, and otherwise more "mission focused" and less "fuck with the troops" as if that's a suitable equivalent for realistic training.

That being said, something that may appear to be screwing with the troops, like, holding a formation outside in the rain, when every company commander KNOWS that the platoon sergeants are going to have those troops out there, in formation, 15 minutes before the formation.... that's NOT abuse, it's training to get used to being out in the inclement weather, and staying still, and quiet, even though you hate it. It is its very own form of mental and physical conditioning.

On the other hand, having troops do some task by some retarded method which could be accomplished just as effectively, if not more so, some other way.... THAT is screwing with the troops.

I had a battalion commander... who had a reputation in TWO states for being rather odd. We had a weekend when we had to get all of our medical AND mandatory paperwork (security clearances, life insurance, other legal matters) all done. This was about 10 years ago with the 2 wars raging on. He organized that thing, which was normally a 2-day event, and had it so streamlined that EVERY SOLDIER in the entire battalion got through all of the stations in one 10-hour day. My opinion of him went up 3 notches for that alone, because that meant the next day we could spend doing actual training, rather than doing this paperwork goat-rope (for the 4th time that year... whoever was mandating doing that stuff every 3 months... I could wring his neck. It was actively interfering with our training, and not finding out anything that wasn't found 3 months earlier. If anyone had problems, they should have been flagged, and those individual problems addressed as needed, not making everyone sit on their rear ends all day, filling out the same forms, with the same information, every 90 days... when our activation date was still 9-12 months off)

Blogger Mister Excitement December 17, 2018 7:17 AM  

@115

I'm a retired Infantry officer. It's like that in the Infantry.


@119 A boxing ring during deployment would have been awesome! Come to think of it, in all the gyms I've been to during my career, I can't remember ever seeing a boxing ring. It's possible I just wasn't looking. The Army certainly never promoted unarmed fighting. It was always pushups, situps, running.

I hated it at the time because I thought it was a waste of time, but the Army adopting Combatives was a brilliant idea.

Combatives should be done at least once a week for PT.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:33 AM  

@80

"It seems to be scarce in Naval Aviation."

It's the nature of the business. Any flight school that feeds directly into landing on carriers is very meticulous about psychological profiles of the students. A student can fly perfectly but get washed out because of an attitude problem. Aerial combat is ALL about teamwork, and any guy who can't be part of a team, because he has a never ending stream of snark, is going to be washed out as soon as it's spotted -- psychologically unfit for this duty. I'm sure the USAF is the same way with anybody who wants to fly fighters. Three ways to become a bomber or transport pilot -- 1) Not knowing, absolutely down cold, and quickl, EVERYTHING the instructor taught in your classes and said was mandatory to learn. You can't look up stuff in a book... or even on a kneeboard, in the middle of a dogfight. It's either in your head, or you don't have it.

2) Fail some performance testing (like aircraft recognition when the silhouette slide is flashed on the screen for 1/500th of a second -- shooting an F-18 because it looks nearly identical to an SU-27 (even sitting still) is bad, mkay?; being too late at spotting a bogey aircraft; bad landings; etc.).
3) You create unnecessary drama among your classmates, or with your instructors.

Note -- being an egotistical dick will NOT wash you out of fighter school -- that's EXACTLY what they're looking for personality wise -- a guy who has absolute confidence in himself at all times, even when he's made a minor error, because NOTHING will get a man shot down faster in a dogfight than second-guessing himself. If you get shot down, now your wingman is out there on his own until he can tag on as a 3rd on some other pair.... but there's a good chance he'll get shot down before he can mate up with some other friendly. Now your combat package is down by 2 planes..... Air combat is, and always has been, pure attrition warfare. Any pilot displaying anything that increases friendly attrition is removed from fighters immediately. Meeting in the commandant's office -- get back to your bed, and find that the cadre has already packed your locker into your duffel bags... if you're even allowed to go back. They might just bring your bags to the office, and throw them at you as you exit the commandant's office.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:35 AM  

@83

"So a Captain or Colonel or even a General can be someone with hardly any real combat experience."

I have a theory that we get ourselves involved in a major war every 20 years as a matter of policy -- that being to make sure when we end up HAVING to get into a war, that all of our O-6's and above have fought in at least one war.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:38 AM  

@86

How in the hell did he make 3-star without ever stepping foot in Vietnam, the sandbox (either 1991 or 2003 onwards), or Afghanistan?

He must have worn out quite a few sets of kneepads to make it that high while evading FOUR wars.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:47 AM  

@88

"Why have I never heard of Vox attacking a crippled person before? I've been on a personal campaign ever since it dawned on me how they're always taking the best parking spots at stores. "


You obviously weren't around when he was making a nuisance of himself under 20 different names... and not only here, but all across the web. After Vox had volunteers and others dig up all the info that could be found on the guy, he gave us a synopsis.

I googled one of his aliases recently.... he's still doing the same shit, 5-6 years later. And this is AFTER Vox had the cops come and get him to be have a long chat with him and get his fingerprints.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:48 AM  

"Enlisted and officer are worlds apart; you can very often tell the difference between an officer who was enlisted prior. "

Which is why they get better pay at the O-1 through O-3 ranks.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:51 AM  

@92

I checked. He's not on that list.

Vox didn't start tagging "banned trolls" until about the 3rd or 4th ban in as many months or fewer.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:54 AM  

@98

"Oh my gosh, I met a super secret king who, even though unemployed and mooching off his girlfriend's father, created this insane plan to (essentially become Elon Musk with the charm of Iron Man) and fake his own death in some idiotic plan crash so "the world will mourn me" (but I'll still be alive to enjoy it). He went on for about 30 minutes and has been living this delusion for 5 years."

Best response: "I'll put up $100 that you won't do it!"

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 7:58 AM  

@113

"I read "About Face" and it is a very interesting account of the dynamics in the army officer corps. It was apparently dysfunctional back then and the armed forces of the 70'ties were at a much higher level of combat readiness than anything today. "

I read it shortly after it came out... and shortly before I first enlisted. That book taught me a lot.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 17, 2018 8:04 AM  

""Lambdas" and women are toxic to most male institutions, especially those involving young boys."

Don't know about anyone else, but I've met at least two different guys who fit lambda to a T, and definitely weren't homosexual.

They were actually not toxic at all, just bizarre.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 17, 2018 8:09 AM  

@124


"I hated it at the time because I thought it was a waste of time, but the Army adopting Combatives was a brilliant idea.

Combatives should be done at least once a week for PT."

Combatives is utterly worthless if you're not doing it for 2 hours/day 3 days/week.

The Army first started on the combatives training to give soldiers an "other than lethal" option for dealing with uncooperative individuals.

When my unit was at the MOB station to deploy to Iraq, we got the whole Level 1 class. The problem was, we didn't have enough time to go through the "repeat over and over and over until you can never forget this" that's needed.

In contrast, bayonet instruction was 1 2-hour session... but with enough repetitions of all the different actions that I can still do all of them, nearly flawlessly, 28 years later.

If combatives was taught the way a karate or judo school teaches -- everyone performing the same moves, in unison for a good 30 minutes... say introduce the material for the day.... spend 2-3 minutes of repition for the 1st move.... then on to 2nd... etc... for a total of 15 or so minutes... and then to the matts to practice on a partner, it would stick better.

But the Army is teaching a martial art without using the time-tested methods of how to teach martial arts.

Amazing.

It's exactly the opposite of how the army teaches rifle marksmanship -- which is, namely, they got all the best combat and civilian shooters together, and interviewed them, and shot video of them, and analyzed everything the experts did, and then teach it the same way in BRM phase of basic training


(Basic Rifle Marksmanship for those who don't know).

Blogger Gregory the Great December 17, 2018 8:14 AM  

...unless you believe in determinism which I do not. Determinism abolishes the idea of good and evil, because how can anybody be guilty of anything if he can't help doing what he does? Thanks for all your great input into this blog!

Blogger VD December 17, 2018 8:33 AM  

Dirk, talking incessantly about yourself on a thread that is devoted to Gammas probably does not convey the impression that you want to convey.

You may wish to keep that in mind.

Blogger John rockwell December 17, 2018 9:12 AM  

'' They simply are not compatible with the smooth functioning of any group; even Gammas can't abide their own behavior in others.''

Where are they to go? Is making them hermits a good idea?

Blogger John rockwell December 17, 2018 9:12 AM  

This shows that they cannot even function properly in a monastery.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 17, 2018 10:53 AM  

Dirk is hard headed. We should start calling him Donkey.

Blogger Peter Gent December 17, 2018 12:48 PM  

Evan Hartshorn wrote: One would think they would seek to change their behavior.

The chief difference between a gamma and a low delta is a propensity to lie to himself. If one ceases to lie to himself, one becomes more delta than gamma in fairly short order.

This is super hard because he has founded large swathes of his identity on lies. He has to go from thinking he is secretly awesome to realizing he kind of sucks. It's a gut wrenching process.

This is why real Christianity makes it hard to be a gamma. A real Christian is like Paul who admitted in 1 Timothy 1:15 (NET) "This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: 'Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners'—and I am the worst of them!"
Looking your Old Man, as Paul would say, directly in the face without flinching is a very hard thing. Yet, we are, however good we think we are, detestable sinners saved by grace.

Blogger lowercaseb December 17, 2018 11:04 PM  

John rockwell wrote:This shows that they cannot even function properly in a monastery. That is correct. Monasteries are Omega territory. One of the few places where you see happy omegas.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 18, 2018 3:38 AM  

remember it is fractal. One of tje omegas automatically becomes the alpha monk.

Blogger I.S. December 18, 2018 12:14 PM  

Not really any advantages. Gamma is what we end up with when a high IQ man's life goes wrong and he ends up as a low-quality/inferior person but he's intelligent enough to lie and rationalize and convince himself that he's the superior one.

Fucking up your life in a unique irreparable way and because killing yourself to finish the job is very much harder than it sounds..

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