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Friday, December 07, 2018

Darkstream: Free Trade is Evil

This promises to be a pretty mind-blowing one, so you might want to consider watching this Darkstream if you have any interest in economics or eschatology. I'm not merely making the case that free trade is bad for the economy, or that it is bad for America, I'm making the case that it is quite literally evil and integral to Satan's master plan for the destruction of Man.

The relevant verses on which the case is founded.

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (God wants to bless the nations.)

Psalm 22:28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations. (God governs the nations.)

Psalm 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name. (God made at least some of the nations.)

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (Lucifer's fall from heaven weakened the nations.)

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. (The nations will survive to the end, despite all the efforts to destroy them, and God will set them straight again.)

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring. (The nations will be distressed and perplexed towards the end.)

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (The Beast will be given power over the nations.)

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. (The nations will be deceived by Babylon.)

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more. (God will stop Lucifer from deceiving the nations.)

THE CORE SYLLOGISM

Major premise: The prince of this world seeks to deceive and destroy the nations as part of his rebellion against God.
Minor premise: The nations have been deceived into believing free trade benefits them, when in truth it will inevitably destroy them through the mobility of labor required to deliver the promised economic benefits.
Conclusion: Free trade is an integral element of the prince of this world's master plan to destroy Man.

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96 Comments:

Blogger Nate73 December 07, 2018 7:33 PM  

When I suggested Academic Agent on youtube review the book Free Trade Doesn't Work by Ian Fletcher, he dismissed it as some garbage sounding title. I think a lot of libertarian types aren't even familiar with these arguments in the slightest.

Blogger #7139 December 07, 2018 7:41 PM  

Free Trade is Evil

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 8:03 PM  

The Free Market is AMORAL, but the idea that there "is no morality" is a devilish lie.

Technically, hiring assassins is just "free trade".

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 8:15 PM  

Every bit where you hear "free" attached to speech is to promote blasphemy and pornography. Attached to trade, it means abortion, contraception, drugs, gambling, or other harmful addictions, usury...

Also "free trade" today is almost entirely to remove protections from local labor so they can hurt or kill, pollute, or engage in bribery or cronism "over there", but the advocates specifically avoid or reject asking if it breaks moral principles which we wouldn't accept here (even NAP/UPB) - so we are importing evil which makes things cheaper.

Or my typical example of paying a shoplifter to get something cheaper - but being careful not to ask if they really shoplift.

Blogger VD December 07, 2018 8:42 PM  

The Free Market is AMORAL, but the idea that there "is no morality" is a devilish lie.

The argument for the intrinsic evil of free trade goes far deeper than you're thinking there.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 9:04 PM  

@4 - I know, but the thin crust is sufficient to show that it merely is a covering to the pits of hell.

Beyond that, Usury/debt seems ESSENTIAL to "free trade". We don't have ships meet in the middle of the ocean with gold exchanged for goods.

I know you've gone deeper but how far can Free Trade go without Debt (or other) slavery? Or other forms of credit including simply accepting that cheques won't bounce?

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 9:07 PM  

Does putting it on you Master Card mean your are the Slave?

Blogger David The Good December 07, 2018 9:16 PM  

Nate73 wrote:When I suggested Academic Agent on youtube review the book Free Trade Doesn't Work by Ian Fletcher, he dismissed it as some garbage sounding title. I think a lot of libertarian types aren't even familiar with these arguments in the slightest.

Observable reality is kryptonite to them.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 9:20 PM  

So what is Europe and the UK doing with all the "asians" they are importing. I haven't seen Mrs. Lovett's meat pies being franchised. At least China has this transplant tourism policy.

We in the USA imported a bunch of Africans until 1808, and traded them afterward, but the steam engine and such wasn't there to replace commodity labor.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 9:21 PM  

Free Trade does work. The error is that Vox here has identified the real goal and purpose, not the advertised one.

Blogger John Best December 07, 2018 9:42 PM  

I used to think internal free trade within a state and external protectionism from other states would work. However I have since realized that it would destroy the counties and kingdoms within a realm, so you need to keep extended families settled in one county or area, for generations, so they belong to that place and it becomes their own and their families. I feel that way about where I live, so I am much stronger and more able to understand the forces of evil which are trying to destroy the place of my extended family for 700 years. Any trade which comes at the expense of your family or county must be opposed.

Blogger S1AL December 07, 2018 9:43 PM  

Acts 17:26 - "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place..."

Stronger language than Psalm 86:9

Blogger S1AL December 07, 2018 9:44 PM  

The rest of Chapter 17 is also fun times for "The Knowledge of God" topic.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 9:56 PM  

Free trade operates at a moral level. We export thrift and justice, to import avarice with the cheaper goods.

In saving a few ounces of silver, too many are willing to trade their souls.

The current problem is not Faust's selling his soul to the devil, but pledging it as collateral in a debt - Usury - contract.

Blogger tz December 07, 2018 10:05 PM  

God created Man and Woman as distinct, separate, even if you say complimentary.

God created nations similarly. I forgot I earlier made this point. Even the SeiveGnats won't accept "transgender", or the other nonsense about the genders not being different. But the races, i.e. the "nations" are different.

Not better or worse, superior or inferior, but different, each with their own genius.

Man and woman he created them. Of different races and nations he also created them. Christianity is to lead all to Christ, not to homogenize the nations or say one or another nation is "better". They aren't. But look how no one wants to add to Western Civilization, but to reject it in favor not merely of other constructs, but of anti-Christian ones.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 07, 2018 10:07 PM  

eschatology...I've always seen things from this angle.

I mean, if you're living in the last times, and you acknowledge it, you therefore observe things as though they're taking place in the last times.

That said, it's also nice to sometimes hold out hope that you're just in one of many historical cycles, and yours isn't the generation to see those days. Hence, my Trump vote.

Blogger CM December 07, 2018 10:12 PM  

This is going to be amazing. Listening in AM.

Blogger LR27 December 07, 2018 10:23 PM  

It's virtually impossible to convince even libertarians about free trade's true nature. The cuckservatives are even harder. It's depressing seeing virtually my whole family be Shapiro-worshiping republicans that can't engage on it.

Blogger Daniel Babylon December 07, 2018 10:38 PM  

Could you not adjust the minor premise to prove that immigration is evil as well? This may prove a useful template to discuss a whole range of issues, not just free trade.

Blogger John Calla December 07, 2018 10:48 PM  

Japan just passed a law to bring in "hundreds of thousands" of new foreign workers per year. This despite the fact that there are already towns that are one-fifth composed of foreigners.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook December 07, 2018 11:07 PM  

The sun could not deliver a take this scorching hot.

Blogger Dire Badger December 07, 2018 11:25 PM  

Daniel Babylon wrote:Could you not adjust the minor premise to prove that immigration is evil as well? This may prove a useful template to discuss a whole range of issues, not just free trade.

No need, immigration IS Free Trade.

Blogger Ian Stein December 07, 2018 11:32 PM  

Vox, need I remind you that you are not a theologian. Nations equal goyim equals non-Jew equals unbeliever. Jesus is not intrested in free trade.

Blogger dienw December 07, 2018 11:42 PM  

Ezekiel 28:16
By the abundance of thy merchandise They have filled thy midst with violence, And thou dost sin, And I thrust thee from the mount of God, And I destroy thee, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

In the midst of discussing the human king of Tyre, God switches persons and references Lucifer; unfortunately, the commentators I have available are uncertain -- or they don't want to examine the nature of commerce -- of whom God is referencing; but I have come across the idea that God is making a double reference here.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 07, 2018 11:52 PM  

Ian Stein wrote:Vox, need I remind you that you are not a theologian. Nations equal goyim equals non-Jew equals unbeliever. Jesus is not intrested in free trade.
May I remind you that you are even less of a theologian than Vox.

Blogger dienw December 07, 2018 11:52 PM  

Ian Stein wrote:Vox, need I remind you that you are not a theologian. Nations equal goyim equals non-Jew equals unbeliever. Jesus is not intrested in free trade.

No. Emphatically no.

"Goyem" is the equivalent of the Greek "ethnos" and the Latin "Gentile;" it means stranger; the Kingdom of Judah used the word when referencing those not of Judah; the word also references those of the Kingdom of Israel (do you see the deception? From the point of view of the Kingdom of Israel, Jews are goyim.)
Since the word "goyim" as does "gentiles" references people not of the speaker's nation, Americans, Russians, and Chinese legitimately can call Jews goyim, or gentiles.

Blogger Ian Stein December 07, 2018 11:59 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 08, 2018 12:00 AM  

"and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived"

Men and women are are war, no man wants to marry lest he become a slave to the beast family court system, and women are unf**kable hambeasts or hypergamus.

Seems about right.
What a wonderful time to be alive. And death is not the end. Most of us might be spared the decay of old age. Rejoice!
And be merry in this season.

Blogger Ian Stein December 08, 2018 12:03 AM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Rickaby007 December 08, 2018 12:07 AM  

Libertarians are hedonistic Mammon worshippers. They don't care about anything beyond their own individual, little bubbles of existence. They are the enemies of good and will ultimately side with the globalists as long as they can maintain an illusion of a modicum of freedom (do drugs and spend their time as they please).

Blogger Rickaby007 December 08, 2018 12:21 AM  

>December 07, 2018 10:23 PM
It's virtually impossible to convince even libertarians about free trade's true nature. The cuckservatives are even harder. It's depressing seeing virtually my whole family be Shapiro-worshiping republicans that can't engage on it.

Convincing someone that their own presuppositions are bad or wrong is extremely hard. They have to trash their worldview and find a new one. That also means trashing part of their identity. All forms of liberals and leftists are the worst because they don't actually believe in anything beyond themselves and what serves them. They don't even believe in truth.

I recommend taking the Jesuit approach: start slowly infiltrating their mind and planting the seeds of truth. Form small cracks in the damn until you form one huge crack and the entire thing breaks, causing a paradigm shift. It can take years, just remember. I wouldn't bother for anyone who isn't highly valuable to you. The rest, just count them as casualties. They're demoralised beyond redemption.

Blogger Rickaby007 December 08, 2018 12:31 AM  

@1 They don't care because they're very close-minded people who lack a complete understanding of the world (because they're obsessed with their own individual existence and not much else). To them, either you're right or you're unenlightened and haven't read the numerous books by Jewish intellectuals who all conveniently argue for free trade and globalisation. The other books? What other books? The ones written by people who haven't read those Jews? Nah, those are for retards who haven't read Jews.

Blogger InformationMerchant December 08, 2018 1:36 AM  

The anticlimactic thing was that you had already sold this before the stream that led to this one. Without any context this would have sounded like it'd be you fighting a significant percentage of viewers, but you had far less resistance than when you did Periscopes about free trade about 2 years ago.

Even making a religious argument didn't get the reaction that you got when you talked about the comparison to Communism regarding which is more damaging to nations, the taking apart of traditional free trade arguments, etc.

I think this was beneficial for Atheists that had already heard you explain the EU wants free trade between its nations, Americans are split up due to intranational free trade, etc. You've shown time and time again that when faced with your conclusion about free trade*, the vast majority of people agree with you. Economic arguments won't convince people that families should be scatted across the globe.

For the Atheists that already agree that free trade destroys the nations and Globalism is evil, demonstrating that Christianity is in line with their point of view undoes some of the anti-Christian propaganda.

Cuckservative did an excellent job of this too, particularly as some Atheists only know Churchianity.


* "1. Free trade, in its true, complete, and intellectually coherent form, is not limited to the free movement of goods, but includes the free movement of capital and labor as well. (The "invisible judicial line" doesn't magically become visible when because human bodies are involved.)

2. The difference between domestic economies and the global international economy is not trivial, but is substantive, material, and based on significant genetic, cultural, traditional, and legal differences between various self-identified peoples.

3. Free trade is totally incompatible with national sovereignty, democracy, and self-determination, as well as the existence of independent nation-states with the right and ability to set their own laws according to the preferences of their residents.

4. Therefore, free trade must be opposed by every sovereign, democratic, or self-determined people, be they American, Chinese, German, or Zambian, who wish to preserve themselves as a free and distinct nation possessed of its own culture, traditions, and laws."


-------------

The "debate Stefan" crowd were annoying. This was a friendly discussion rather than a formal debate, but this happened on May 4, 2016: https://youtu.be/HW5USVpTnJA

Blogger Gettimothy December 08, 2018 1:39 AM  

Well done, important and 'dangerous' to current churchianity.

For if Major premise: The prince of this world seeks to deceive and destroy the nations as part of his rebellion against God.

Then we infer.

Satan defaces and destroys God's good
Nations are a (fallen) good , created by God
The process of sanctification of the faithful sanctifies the nations
Nations are distinct
Nations are composed of distinct peoples
Distinct peoples exist and are a Good as ordained by God
.....
Poland for the Poles
.....
You have to go back

Blogger C.B. Robertson December 08, 2018 1:39 AM  

@Vox, possible problem?

Biblical reference to nations is not necessarily a defense of nation-states. The bible mentions slaves numerous times, in a somewhat neutral fashion, yet does not "endorse" slavery per se. Slavery is not celebrated, but is observed. If God was said to have "strengthened the slaves," we would not believe him to have strengthened the institution... perhaps even the opposite.

Now obviously, the slave and slavery as an institution are in a sort of zero-sum power dynamic, whereas nations do better with nation states, so the analogy might break down a little. However, from a linguistic perspective, I think the nation and the nation-state are still distinct, biblically, as we can see with the old Testament treatment of the nation of Israel.

So the idea that free trade harms the nations might (or might not) be akin to saying that X harms slavery, while the Bible clearly wants the best for slaves. Its ambiguous what God thinks of slavery as an institution, even though he cares deeply about the slave's soul. In a similar manner, the reference to nations is not proof that God necessarily cares about nations as such.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 08, 2018 1:45 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 08, 2018 1:55 AM  

I could not agree more. Is this Vox's Harriet Beecher Stowe moment? Because here Vox has formulized the argument against a very major issue of our day with an impeachable moral basis.

Free trade has rooked us. No question.

And there was NO WAY it wasn't going to, because it is intrinsically evil.

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 2:00 AM  

Alright, so practically, what does this imply? That all trade across borders is satanic?

Or are we talking about the ideological/political structure that insists on no tariffs, no "national good", would prefer no customs or quarantine, and effectively desires legal structure supporting and enforcing borderless trade?

I'm having trouble figuring out the conceptual line between capitalism per se, and Voxian free trade, which seems to be an absolute of some sort.

To put it another way:

1. What is the character of a border (type, function, distance?) across which unfettered trade is Evil? Are there borders of types across which trade is moral?

2. Putting aside the systemic nature of Free Trade, what is the difference in an instance of application, between my right as an Englishman to spend my wealth as I see fit (it being my possession and property), and Evil? Is this answered in point 1., or is there a difference of type in the trade itself; such that mass importations might be evil, but a private individual buying an item of specific worth (for example, historically, a tool or weapon of Spanish or English steel) is not?

I'm not trying to form an argument for or against any of these or their implications, but I am trying to visualize how your ideas mesh so I can thrash them out further without having to query every point.

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 2:04 AM  

My wording is a little clumsy, but I'm interested in answers to the positive or negative to any part; to understand your model is going to take me some serious work, and I don't consider myself to understand an idea until I can approximate its case-by-case workings reasonably.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 08, 2018 2:10 AM  

C.B. Robertson,

Vox also quoted the Scruptures declaring God to be the creator of the nations.

He quoted Psalm 86:9, which says God made the nations. No problem at all. God did not create slaves.

Blogger Robert Browning December 08, 2018 2:13 AM  

Is Christianity a supremacist ideology? Should it be regarded as such? Should the teachings of Christ rule? And are those who use the slur white supremacist actually expressing a disguised hostility towards Christ and Christianity?

Blogger Gregory the Great December 08, 2018 2:51 AM  

So clear and simple nd impeccable that even further supporting arguments cannot enhance your logic, Vox. Bravissimo! Was it a coincidence that this came out right after so many agreed that this is the best blog?

Blogger Gettimothy December 08, 2018 2:56 AM  

@41 look at Vox's definition of free-trade. In that definition, the free-movement of peoples across national borders is a moral imperative (see WSJ "there shall be open borders" proposed amendment, or the late Bob Bartley's "The nation state is dead" for examples of the existence of this definition).

Therefore, you quest to define "the right type of borders/trade" is a flawed presupposition of your argument. In free trade, there are no borders and there are no nations.






Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 08, 2018 3:01 AM  

wreckage wrote:Alright, so practically, what does this imply? That all trade across borders is satanic?

No, never. It's a trick of the Enemy to equate Free Trade with All Trade.

Blogger C.B. Robertson December 08, 2018 3:14 AM  

Ah, fair point.

I think there still might be something to the greater reference/endorsement biblical relationship (God ostensibly created the angels, including Lucifer), but I admit the analogy isn't ideal.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 08, 2018 3:35 AM  

Free trade also destroys the reliable relations between an honest shopkeeper who does not lie about his goods and gives people a fair price and his trusting customers. If the customer finds the same thing 35 percent cheaper on Amazon that relation gets destroyed. and the once honest shopkeeper is tempted or forced to live from one day to the next which may include cheating or lying.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 08, 2018 4:26 AM  

The only logical way to justify free trade and free movement of people is to regard the unification of all peoples into "one nation under an evil god" as desirable.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 4:59 AM  

You're wrong and you're banned, Ian Stein. Now go away. You're not permitted to comment here.

possible problem?

No. First, your argument God's position about slavery is your own imagination. Second, there are sufficient verses about the nations to render your equivalence between the institution of slavery and the institution of nations to be irrelevant.

Blogger Brian Dean December 08, 2018 5:22 AM  

1) The United States was not founded as a nation by God. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as a first amendment that would allow you to have whatever religion you want.
2) Free trade certainly benefited China, South Korea, and various poor countries. It hasn't benefited the United States though. Are there really any other countries it has actually hurt?

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 5:34 AM  

Are there really any other countries it has actually hurt?

Great Britain. Canada. Many of the EU countries, including Italy and Ireland.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 5:35 AM  

Alright, so practically, what does this imply? That all trade across borders is satanic?

If you want your questions answered, then don't ask stupid questions. Ignoring the existence of an adjective suggests that you have a desire to play Smart Boy. Don't do that here.

Blogger Mark Stoval December 08, 2018 5:40 AM  

@ Vox Day and anyone else who can help,

Vox, I can Can't watch videos, so apologies if I am asking something you covered there.

1) When you use "nations" in your text above are you referring to a community of people who share a common language, culture, values, traditions, ethnicity, descent, and history or to the nation-State like the USA or Italy?

2) Where can I view your definition of "Free Trade"? I ask because I suspect we do not have the same understanding of the term.

Thanks in advance for any help Vox, and thanks to anyone else who might help me on this.

~ Mark

Blogger Rocklea Marina December 08, 2018 5:50 AM  

Free trade certainly benefited China, South Korea, and various poor countries.

Like many things, that's fractal. For China, in particular, give it time. Building empires is more fun than their collapse.

As for poor countries, what happens to a subsistence civilisation that is brought into modernity? In a word, Exploitation. Pure and simple. As soon as they get electricity and TV, their culture is destroyed, their relationships no longer make sense, their land is stolen and put to whatever use the Beast System deems efficient, their children are put in schools and educated in a manner completely useless for to their former culture and with no prospect of employment in their "developing nation", then the smartest ones move, have "face time" with the relatives and never move back. The official numbers then say, look, these poor people are living in poverty, when the reality is, many of these people never ever required money in their traditional cultures and wouldn't have known what poverty was before they were told.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 5:51 AM  

1) When you use "nations" in your text above are you referring to a community of people who share a common language, culture, values, traditions, ethnicity, descent, and history or to the nation-State like the USA or Italy?

The former. Do you think I am incapable of writing "nation-state" when I mean "nation-state"? OBVIOUSLY I am not utilizing the term "nation-state" when the Biblical term "nation" predates it by literally thousands of years.

2) Where can I view your definition of "Free Trade"? I ask because I suspect we do not have the same understanding of the term.

Read the book On the Question of Free Trade.

Blogger Mark Stoval December 08, 2018 6:16 AM  

While looking for the Vox Day book "On the Question of Free Trade" I stumbled upon a VD post and comment thread from late 2015 called "The price of free trade".

https://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-price-of-free-trade.html

In addition to today's post, this one is excellent. There is a lot of VD interaction with commenters. I am only half way through the comments but I can recommend that it makes for good reading.

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 6:31 AM  

Nah Vox, I am not playing Smart Boy, hence my apology for the wording. It's an actual apology. Smart Boy by the way is a great little piece of rhetoric I have taken to using on people who deserve it.

I'm just trying to get my somewhat thick skull to encompass your idea here. So, I'm chipping away at the extremes of the idea first; just like sculpting a block of marble by "removing all that doesn't look like the subject".

I'm not super-smart, but I do end up understanding pretty big ideas because I genuinely like ideas and I work at encompassing them. However the early stages can seem a bit weird as I grind through some binary approaches towards finer resolution.

Thanks for taking the time, as you have in the past. I don't feel any entitlement to your time or explanation, but I do appreciate it.

Blogger FrankNorman December 08, 2018 6:35 AM  

Let's look at it more simply:

1) Satan wants to prevent people from being Christian, and one of his strategies towards this is false religions.
2) Islam looks very much like the sort of religion Satan would invent for that purpose.
3) This whole "open borders" thing is basically "let the Muslims take over the world" under a smokecloud of blather and rationalization.

So yes, the people who push for open borders and the abolition of nations and independent countries are, knowingly or otherwise, acting in accordance with what the Devil wants.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 6:46 AM  

I'm just trying to get my somewhat thick skull to encompass your idea here.

That's fine, but I'm not interested in answering questions from people who simply ignore what is already written. Free trade is a subset of trade. So, if I write that the subset is evil, then OBVIOUSLY I do not mean to say that the entire set is evil, because if I wanted to write that, I would have simply written it.

I don't blame people for having thick skulls or being stupid, we are what we are, but if you can't figure out the purpose of an adjective on your own, there is absolutely no point in my even trying to explain anything to you.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 6:48 AM  

Let's look at it more simply

Let's not. Any argument based on your imagination that utilizes weasel words like "looks like" and "basically" is not even remotely on the level of the one I presented. Free trade is not evil because Islam exists.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 08, 2018 8:39 AM  

The concept of freedom itself is deeply coopted by the father of lies. "Ultimate" freedom is no virtue. Ultimate freedom is nothing. We wonder why nihilism is resurgent? It is because freedom is held by so many to be the highest virtue.

From the perspective of nations, if finance/commerce is permitted to flow without restriction between them, all things will be aligned to the means of this economic/material system which envelopes the world. The benefit of any finite system is necessarily to some extent at the expense of all other finite systems it comes in contact with. If the system extent is the world, the smaller borders/states/nations restricting the system must necessarily be corroded for the benefit of the world-system.

To call for free trade is to call for a world-system of economics/production/trade, and thereby also of labor for maximum efficiency. Once labor is subjected to a world-system it must be manipulated in any and by every means by the world-system for maximum world-system efficiency.

Nations must necessarily be destroyed for the sake of any ubiquitous world-system. From there, Satan rules this world, and God created the nations. Free trade? Q.E.D. necessarily evil as it destroys all aspects of the nations for any benefit whatsoever to the world.

Freedom? I'll take slavery to God any day. These "chains"? These chains don't hold me down. These chains are what hold me up, what perpetuate my life, what maintain my existence. Atheists say "Non serviam", but as for me and my house, we will serve The Lord.

In terms of power dynamics, free trade means nothing except that the entity attempting it is refusing both any measure of control over the system of trade, and any measure of responsibility for the outcome of the system of trade. In the case of free trade, if good men do nothing (refuse responsibility or control) evil must triumph over them (by taking control).

Permit trade freely across your borders, and production WILL occur inside of other borders with LESS good/conscientious/moral restrictions and safeties than your own, because production is such places is "cheaper" in financial mode by being more expensive by every. Single. Other. Metric. Possible. Destruction of societies? "Must be Tuesday." Ubiquitous slavery? "It's the only way to win!" Consumption of the young -- in every possible way -- for profit? "How else will we fulfill our desires?"

Systems will be ruled. All things INEVITABLY fall under rule. The only question is whose rule they ultimately fall under, the Master above, or the master below.

"Free" trade is like "free" speech. The "freedom" being espoused is "freedom" from the rule or influence of God or God's chosen stewards. It is not freedom at all, but slavery to evil.

"Free" systems are not free, they are only controlled, chained, and ruled by means the person proclaiming "freedom" does not understand. This is a similar concept to TANSTAAFL.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 08, 2018 8:55 AM  

Compare and contrast:
-Optimization for greater division of labor is at the expense of other optimizations.
-Finding a mate may, and to an extent must, be optimized for.
-Optimal greater division of labor will thus eventually sexually segregate workplaces for efficiency (assuming it hasn't already from day one).
-Sexually segregated working conditions result(?) in the exile of mate-selection to free time.

Optimization for any world-system must eventually exile the existence of discernible nations from the world-space.

Blogger Avalanche December 08, 2018 9:15 AM  

@31 @32"The other books? What other books? The ones written by people who haven't read those Jews? Nah, those are for retards who haven't read Jews."
and
"start slowly infiltrating their mind and planting the seeds of truth. Form small cracks in the damn until you form one huge crack and the entire thing breaks, causing a paradigm shift. It can take years,"

Yes, so maybe start with unveiling THE JEWS, before trying to unveil free trade, or immigration (although THAT bleeding should be pretty clear by now!).

I once sat in our living room crying my eyes out because "the jews COULDN'T be like that!" My husband, who loved me, offered several times to stop 'introducing me to reality'; rather than continue to hurt my (my preconceptions / brainwashing!) by exposing me to truth and reality. But, maybe unlike your relatives, I WANTED to know the truth...

Even (some) flaming feminist, partly liberal, very brainwashed, women CAN be recovered to their senses (or, well, the truth!), but as my husband said: it can only be done the way Helen Keller was 'awakened' -- which is essentially one-on-one, over time, over multiple threads and avenues to connection.

And, I'm afraid blood relatives may be an impenetrable force -- they know you too well (they think), oh prophet in your own land...

Blogger Avalanche December 08, 2018 9:28 AM  

@35 "the idea that free trade harms the nations might (or might not) be akin to saying that X harms slavery ... Its ambiguous what God thinks of slavery as an institution"

The nations are an extant thing, slavery is a (temporally limited) concept?

That is, the nations exist as a group of people (Sailer's genetically related, very extended family), no matter their location or condition; and harming this or that *specific* related group of people, this or that "family"; differs from the concept of slavery, the concept of slaves. There is no existential connection amongst slaves, save only their ... livelihood ... and who directs them or benefits.

I often make the comparison of debt slave (e.g., many of us, who must work to eat or live indoors), who don't have even some of the 'protections' granted in U.S law to actual owned slaves. Slavery IS a human condition <-- condition! Not a description of connection of identification OF the 'object.'

So, apples to oranges?

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 9:42 AM  

Must be one of those days.

What I've got is that where I was tending to look at mechanisms, you're looking at outcomes; where I'm thinking about trade in terms of relative degrees of government control of markets, you're actually addressing more or less the inverse.

So, my question was formulated along the lines of discerning the granularity, I s'pose, of nationality or identity. My question was intended to narrow down a field of "does approximate" versus "does not approximate" because sometimes the ideas you work with are slightly but significantly foreign to me. And sometimes they're not at all. Most of what you blog here or put in your Darkstreams is clear, simple stuff expressed succinctly and thoughtfully.

I think what I'm getting here would be approximated by:

1. Flat-border absolutism is as destructive applied to goods as to persons, and the two are at least co-morbid, possibly indivisible.
2. Economic growth via ideologically-asserted "efficiencies" is largely or wholly illusory.

I don't expect these express the whole idea, but are they valid within your framework?

Blogger Avalanche December 08, 2018 9:46 AM  

@41 "Is Christianity a supremacist ideology? Should it be regarded as such?"

You have seemingly started at premise 2, not premise 1.

Start your thinking with: IS there anything wrong (or evil) with "supremacy? WHY are we all taught to hysterically cover our ears and sing "lalala" whenever anyone brings up that slur?

WHO is teaching us and our posterity that all men are created equal, that 67-average-IQ somalians are in ANY way "equal" to the White race / nation that created damned near everything worth having? WHO is working so damned hard to teach "us" that excelling is bad: "everyone wins!" "Oh, well, except you cis-gendered white patriarchal males -- you're neither equal nor good."

Please begin to differentiate between "supremacy," the slur used by our enemies against us to mean "you nazi's wish to rule over everyone else" (projection, anyone?) and ... what would be a good solid rhetorical term to describe superior, better able, innately civilizational, etc. etc.

SOME of the enemy's terms we can co-opt (e.g., fake news, SJW). Some terms are not recoverable and must corrected (supremacist, racist, anti-semitic, everything-a-phobe). (Note, from Vox's teaching, you cannot defend yourself against 'racisssss' except by throwing an equally meaningless insult back ('pedo-protector'!).

Our enemies use their slurs because WE (well, some of us) recoil in horror and scramble to defend... My old answer, pre-Vox, was "yes OF COURSE I am a racist! Why the hell aren't YOU!?" And while there was some emotional freight there, I think it was not actually rhetorical (because it is SELF-directed 'I accept your terms') with a non-insult given back. Plus, my backup was to throw some of the boatloads of clear violent vicious damage done to 'us' by our enemies. Trying to provide the emotional freight, but in an all-too-dialectical way.

Word choice ALWAYS matters.

Blogger Avalanche December 08, 2018 9:49 AM  

Oh and p.s. Answering with "I'm not a supremacist, I'm a separatist" is just "Dems are the real racists" in reverse.

Look, too, at "our" usual scrambling defenses (graceful losers) -- they're usually/often SELF-directed. Unlike our enemies, WE are not trying to HURT them; as they are, us; WE are trying to have a reasoned, reasonable discussion of a mistaken impression THEY (apparently) have of us.

Once again, CHECK your premises! (The hell with 'check your privilege'!!)

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 9:51 AM  

Christianity isn't supremacist, it's just better than everything else. Is the fastest horse "supremacist"? The brightest star? No. Neither is Christianity. But it IS the best in every possible respect.

Blogger Brian Dean December 08, 2018 9:52 AM  

Vox, a possible clarifying question for the benefit of me and others. At what point does trade become evil? For example, maybe it's ok if you are living in the United States to buy tea made in China (Or maybe not. You can correct me if I'm wrong about that). But it's probably not ok if EVERYTHING you see on the shelf is made in China (Or again, maybe it is). Is it ok to marry a Chinese woman if you are a white guy from the US?

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 10:02 AM  

@68, wrong perspective.

Try instead: is it OK to trade with another nation provided you retain totally and without exception your right to impose restrictions, tariffs or taxes?

For the last question there, Vox has repeatedly argued that it is "ok" as in, you won't got to hell for it, but may be unwise, as in you or your kids might suffer as a result of your own actions, and as a result of your own unexamined motives.... usually, the poor motive being, trading off white prestige to get a prettier wife than you could "back home".

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 10:50 AM  

At what point does trade become evil?

I have no idea. I'm not attempting to develop a moral system. I'm simply attempting to observe what is true and what is not true.

Blogger P Glenrothes December 08, 2018 11:26 AM  

Okay, so what's the better alternative to free trade? Corrupt managed trade that enriches the overlords at the expense of the citizenry? It's a choice of the lesser evil.



Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 08, 2018 11:46 AM  

I'm simply attempting to observe what is true and what is not true.
Lord knows we have few who provide that service.

P Glenrothes wrote:Okay, so what's the better alternative to free trade? Corrupt managed trade that enriches the overlords at the expense of the citizenry? It's a choice of the lesser evil.
What do we have now, under the most "free trade" regime in history? What did Victorian Britain have? What does Singapore have?
What makes you think it's even possible to NOT have "corrupt managed trade that enriches our overlords at our expense?"
Your dichotomy is false, and your alternative is demonstrably impossible.

Blogger VD December 08, 2018 11:54 AM  

Okay, so what's the better alternative to free trade? Corrupt managed trade that enriches the overlords at the expense of the citizenry?

Yes, that is a much better alternative. At least the citizenry is still the nation. What part of "free trade is integral to the devil's plan to destroy humanity" was hard to grasp? Better rich Christian national overlords than ultra-rich Satanist international elite rule.

And if you don't think "free trade" is even more corrupt than "managed trade", you haven't been paying attention. Free trade increases the corruption by an order of magnitude.

Blogger allyn71 December 08, 2018 12:50 PM  

There is a reason that Marx calls for many ills including Central Banking and Free Trade.

But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade. - Karl Marx, On the Question of Free Trade (1848)

Blogger Were-Puppy December 08, 2018 12:51 PM  

There is a section on this blog in the left margin, just above "Interviews".

VD covers economic issues in several of them.


Blogger allyn71 December 08, 2018 12:52 PM  

Free Trade = Commie

Blogger S1AL December 08, 2018 1:02 PM  

"Okay, so what's the better alternative to free trade? Corrupt managed trade that enriches the overlords at the expense of the citizenry? It's a choice of the lesser evil."

Protective tariffs of the kind that were foundational to the Republican Party platform until Bush Sr.

Blogger allyn71 December 08, 2018 1:11 PM  

Also for those of you that are slow.... Globalism = Commie.

Free Trade = Globalism = Commie. Commie = Evil; Free Trade = Evil.

Blogger R Webfoot December 08, 2018 1:55 PM  

@S1AL
Acts 17:26 - "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place..."

E Uno Multis. Nationalism.

Blogger Rex Leroy King December 08, 2018 2:31 PM  

Think about the consequences of imposing free trade on a place that has never had it. Say, a port city in a country hitherto closed off. How are goods conveyed from without to within? Whose property is crossed in transport?

Blogger tz December 08, 2018 3:43 PM  

@73 exactly, even when it isn't fake satan wins trade. The Slave Trade was free trade. Shall we allow slaves from Libya?

Blogger tz December 08, 2018 3:45 PM  

@70 Trade becomes evil when the circumstances surrounding it promote evil.

It is a mirror of asking when does stabbing and cutting someone become evil. Surgery under anesthetic to cure some disease or problem?

Put simply, trade becomes evil when your soul is what is traded, even tacitly.

Blogger tz December 08, 2018 3:55 PM  

Consider "Whats wrong with China" (do read the book). "Free Trade" will deliver you 95% and the rest are defective and hope it will be obvious and not kill 5% of your customers like the melamine dog food.

When you sup with the devil a long spoon is recommended. When you trade, a bunker and test everything...

Blogger Chesapean December 08, 2018 6:49 PM  

RE: "I'm making the case that it is quite literally evil and integral to Satan's master plan for the destruction of Man."

I like the argument. It supports my view that the Bible is, among other things, a pretty good textbook on economics. You can find in it, wherever money is discussed, variations of Gresham's Law (which I take to be the physical law of gravity in a truly scientific economics).

In any case, the usual view of economics is that it concerns the study of the allocation of scarce resources. The proper view is that it concerns the management of manifest abundance.

Here are three truths of economics which you can prove to yourself by examining your own experience:

1. In the universe of all things, those which are needed for survival are very few in number.

2. Life and nature are so disposed that those few things which are needed for survival are abundant.

3. Things which are needed for survival tend to be inexpensive.

Consider the lilies of the field (Mathew 6:28).

Blogger wreckage December 08, 2018 10:18 PM  

@84 Thankyou; there's some good insight there.
@70 I'm just trying to systematize those observations a bit so that I can make use of them in developing my own ideas and models. And by models I mean ideas that can be tested against reality repeatedly and the interactions compared with other models, and so on. Tedious for many I suppose, but it's a hobby of mine.

I hope I am not annoying you too much, but your insights and observations have been fascinating and useful to this mental hobby of mine and really refined both how I look at a lot of OTHER ideas and how I apply myself to my mental discipline; TMI perhaps, just explaining that I am driven by enthusiasm here, not by malice or (misplaced!) competitiveness.

Blogger eclecticme December 08, 2018 11:40 PM  

I should read a few recommended books before I ask too many questions. I have questioned the 'free trade is good' belief as dogma for at least a decade. I try to parse sentences carefully. I believe Vox may have had these ideas in his head for so long that he skips a couple steps when explaining them, even to very intteligent people. I took two semesters of econ in college. The macro econ course seemed like theology.

1. When Vox says free trade I read that as meaning unfettered trade, not no trade.

2. Free trade is 'good' but only for some. I never read that free trade is good in some cosmic sense. Do economists really claim that?.

3. When Vox says that free trade 'requires' population transfer does that mean that free trade forces people to move to survive? It rings true and has before when I read this from Vox. I do not understand. Sorry.

Blogger wreckage December 09, 2018 12:49 AM  

@86 to get the full efficiencies from "free trade as an efficiency machine", which is the current bipartisan view of politicians but disputed by economists far more mainstream than Vox, people have to be either fully fungible or fully mobile/liquid assets.

This is also necessary for "unfettered free trade that needs neither regulation nor restriction" to work perfectly "fairly".

Basically, if you have static, different, populations, you will have distorted trade and as such it will require intelligent input from the people-groups involved in the trade, or it will require them to move from place to place every time capital moves.

Say you have a factory. It's in Sweden. The local IQ is high, so the factory is profitable; with total "blind" international fluidity of trade and capital then, more and more capital will move to Sweden. But this creates massive labour demand there, so then people MUST be imported, or Sweden alone will be rich and everyone else unemployed, and there will be no market.

So for example, Han Chinese will move to Sweden until parity is reached.

But now suddenly hydro power is super cheap in New Zealand, so the factories get moved there. Now the entire Swedish/Han factory worker population has to move to New Zealand to maintain the productivity of the factories.

Now technology changes, and the most productive workers are actually the strongest. So the Swedes and Han all have to leave, and be replaced by Samoans.

Basically what we're looking at, just my interpretation, is that the purist, ideological free-trade theories of this moment treat cash, physical-production capital, and human capital, as being the same kind of thing and representing them only by a simple dollar value, which is utterly false. A system based on a lie then, can only serve the Liar.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 09, 2018 11:05 AM  

Chesapean wrote:2. Life and nature are so disposed that those few things which are needed for survival are abundant.

3. Things which are needed for survival tend to be inexpensive.


You don't live in high latitudes, do you?

Yes, survival boils down to having sufficient energy available, both edible and burnable.

Blogger Chesapean December 09, 2018 4:35 PM  

RE: "You don't live in high latitudes, do you?"

What possible difference could that make?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 09, 2018 8:30 PM  

Chesapean wrote:RE: "You don't live in high latitudes, do you?"

What possible difference could that make?


Edibles and burnables are both harder to come by where you need them most. Before cheap diesel and cheap shipping, the natives all around the Pole starevd regularly. Eskimo legends always center on hunger. I gather it's the same for the Athapaskans.

Today, yes, the basics are easy to come by, even near the Arctic Circle. That is a very modern thing, due strictly to Whestern Civilization and cheap energy.

Blogger eclecticme December 09, 2018 10:18 PM  

@87. wreckage December 09, 2018 12:49 AM
@86 to get the full efficiencies from "free trade as an efficiency machine", which is the current bipartisan view of politicians but disputed by economists far more mainstream than Vox, people have to be either fully fungible or fully mobile/liquid assets.


I am a guy who moves from examples to general concepts, simulations, and a bottom up thinker. Here is as far as I get.

Customers and lenders/capital are amoral. Things change over time.

There is a local business, say a pop/soda bottler. One in most medium cities. Transportation changes, becomes more reliable. It is now possible to have regional bottlers which make cheaper stuff and can attract capital from people wanting the best return. See also mass advertising.They can move to locations having cheaper labor.Economies of scale rule. Employees are thrown out of work. They don't have to move to the new plant as they are not offered a job there.

Think local butcher shops being replaced by supermarkets with union labor being replaced by meat cut up at remote meat packing plants staffed by Somalis. Also bakeries. Large companies can pay off lawmakers to remove any pesky local variations in laws.

Same thing but auto makers. Move them further away, in foreign countries. Things change over time including national laws, national talent levels and wages, technology, and these favor some locations over others. Capital sources favor the best return. CALPERS (a pension fund) does not care if their investment uses slave labor. Customers want cheap stuff.

Large companies do not force people to move but they may become unemployed if they do not, if they even have a choice.

Blogger eclecticme December 09, 2018 10:48 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger eclecticme December 09, 2018 10:52 PM  

Please forgive me while I sperg.

I am puzzled by the globalist claims that free trade is good. Good for whom? Say US mfg workers lose money, US customers gain buying power, and US investors gain better returns. Do they add these up somehow and conclude it is best for the US if the total goes up? What if US investors gain at the expense of mfg workers and the rest is a wash? That is a massive transfer from US mfg workers to US investors. What if the investors are outside the US, as they often are?

When US mfg workers are thrown out of work, to be unemployed or paid much less, how does this factor in the globalist equation? I am not saying you cannot put a price on human suffering, I am asking how they quantify this.

Blogger wreckage December 10, 2018 2:53 AM  

@93, as far as I can tell, they don't. Modern economics is dreadfully, frighteningly, shallow in its analysis. This is not to say economic analysis can't work, only that the profession is so undisciplined and inconsistent as to render themselves worthless at best, harmful at worst.

Blogger Robert Sullivan December 12, 2018 1:44 PM  

This doesn't really have anything to do with trade. Accept maybe that last verse.

Blogger eclecticme December 13, 2018 5:59 PM  

I came upon this older VD post. Some good comments as well.
https://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-price-of-free-trade.html

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