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Saturday, December 22, 2018

Darkstream: the Mandela Effect


It is fascinating to see how many people find it less improbable to posit that most people have faulty memories than believe the possibility that an influential organization might be running a large-scale experiment on the limits of historical revisionism. In tonight's Darkstream, I discuss five possible explanations for the dichotomy between human memory and the current physical evidence with regards to a series of children's books.

But the diverse reactions to the Mandela Effect tends to underline the wisdom of Jesus Christ's explaination for why God seldom sees fit to show Himself to people. Very, very few people are capable of even entertaining the possibility of anything that violates the narrative they currently accept, let alone believing it, on the mere testimony of others. And any mind with sufficient knowledge of the human heart would know that.

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92 Comments:

Blogger Krymneth December 22, 2018 9:38 PM  

Memory failures are correlated. The mispronunciation is literally contagious. It's the exact same way that dialects are created and propagate and I don't think we need to hypothesize massive scientific "experiments" to explain those.

Further, the whole "our memories are accurate" requires us to believe that this "experiment" involves breaking into literally every person's house who has these books and swapping them out for new books that say the "correct" thing, up to and including the same damage as before. That's a whackload of improbability I find much greater than a contagious mispronunciation, in light of the fact that, again, mispronunciations are known to be contagious and we see abundant evidence of that all over the place.

FWIW, I'm 40, and the first time I encountered this five or six years ago, I thought it was a very strange joke, because I remembered it as Berenstain. It took me a bit to realize that people weren't just kidding about remebering it as Berenstein. I think there may be some dialect differences as well in how clearly the two are pronounced differently, which probably contributes to the confusion.

That's another case of hypothesizing an enemy that is up to Descartes' Demon level of power. If someone's that out to get us, then you can't even trust the evidence that you're using to come to the conclusion that you can't trust the evidence. If there's some enemy literally breaking in to people's houses and swapping out these books (I've passed mine down to my kids straight from first printings in the late 1970s... if we can trust that those markings haven't been mangled too, of course), without missing a single one, and we are to trust our collective falliable memories over written evidence, then you've just thrown away the Bible too. On what basis do you trust that book then? Certainly there is a far greater effort to attack it than some dumb kids books.

Blogger LordSomber December 22, 2018 9:43 PM  

I thought it was the "Mengele Effect."

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 22, 2018 9:47 PM  

Sorry about your dog. Never a good time for that but it really sucks at Christmas.

Blogger Vaughan Williams December 22, 2018 9:54 PM  

This explains why gnosticism is such a big trap and pitfall for midwits.

Blogger Meimou December 22, 2018 10:06 PM  

Very good post but with psycotronic weapons you wouldn't need break into houses, you could alter memories. I never heard a pro Mandela make the house breaking claim...

It's more than likely that the ability to alter memories has already been tested and covertly used. see Tactics Against Targeted Idividuals 2

I have reason to believe I was given an artificial memory; one day out of the blue I had a memory I never thought of before. I never "remembered" it, but I felt it was with me for decades. I received this memory after I realised that I was a targeted individual.

Some of the Mandela cases could be faculty memory, some could be the power of suggestion, some could be technology. There doesn't have to be a single explaination.

Blogger Lazarus December 22, 2018 10:12 PM  

You and your friend fulfill the 2 witnesses requirement of the Bible.

Deuteronomy 19:15 ESV / 27 helpful votes
“A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.

Blogger Jake Burton December 22, 2018 10:16 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 22, 2018 10:17 PM  

If I understand it correctly, the significance of the “Mandela effect” is not just that people have incorrect memories, but that so many people share the same incorrect memories. Still doesn’t prove anything, but it is more significant.

Blogger Jake Burton December 22, 2018 10:20 PM  

It's interesting that you can actually test this a little. I heard about this last year and my attention was grabbed over the Beren-- Bears because I remember a discussion about how stein vs stien means German or jewish, so the bears were either german or jews.

I asked a bunch of my coworkers "Hey, question. Do you remember those kids books about bears that live in a tree? Beren- something?" Most of my coworkers, like me, had "bad" memories somehow. Very curious. So many people from separate walks of life saw the same popular books/tv shows/sega games and somehow we all screwed up the memory in the same way.

I suppose it could be nothing. But when's the last time tons of people somehow wrongly "remembered" that Han Solo was Henny Solo or that Tom Cruise was actually Terrence Cruise? Some of those Mandela examples were just as widespread as Tom Cruise or Han Solo was.

Blogger Redpill Angel December 22, 2018 10:33 PM  

I remember Berenstein for sure.

Before the election I noticed that Ivanka was married to a Jewish guy. Amid all the ridiculous accusations of Trump anti-Semitism, I decided to check up on who the sons had married. I spent an entire afternoon reading up on their weddings and checking up on the ethnicity of their brides. One of the Trump sons had married a Jewish girl in a Jewish wedding and had converted! I saw a photo of him wearing a yarmaluke. I think it was the blond one. The dark-haired son married a half Jewish girl. I remember reading the Wikipedia article. I told my husband all about it when he came home from work. I asked him the other day and he still remembers. I even wrote it down. It seemed quite unusual that all his kids married Jews and I remembered it clearly. I even read that the youngest daughter was dating a Jew!

And yet when I mentioned this recently in a comment on Steve Sailer's blog, someone corrected me. No, Trump's son's were not married to Jewish women. I googled it again, and he was right. No use arguing, they were not Jewish. Trump's sons were not married to Jewish girls. Not ever. But they were! What the heck? What happened? I still can't figure it out.

Blogger Avalanche December 22, 2018 10:48 PM  

There's even a Fakebook page: https://www.facebook.com/therealberensteinbears/

When my husband died, I remember reading in some book on memory that we don't 'hold' complete memories (no hard drive storing bits) but that when we call up a memory, our brains 'assemble' memories from fragments and add 'newer' info. (Hence the uselessness of eye witness testimony?) Since I did not want to "forget" anything about my husband, I decided to not 'call up' memories of him; I wanted to try to retain them in a closer to reality form. Yeah. That doesn't work.

Blogger Russell Newquist December 22, 2018 10:50 PM  

Prayers for the dog, Vox.

Blogger cyrus83 December 22, 2018 10:50 PM  

The brain seems to have something of an auto-correct filter it applies to words we read, so if we see something that looks close and is only off by perhaps a letter from what is expected, it just auto-corrects to what it thinks should be there if careful attention is not being paid. "Merry Christmass and Happy New Yaer" are likely to be read by most as exactly what is intended, and some won't even notice the misspellings.

Sometimes the brain's auto-correct is faulty. I once had a teacher who was unable to accept that Southbury was a proper name, it was always corrected to Southberry, despite the very real existence of a Southbury Road. I frequently come back to books I have read looking for a quote only to find that the quote I remember isn't quite what is in the book. The gist is almost always right, just not the specific wording.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 22, 2018 11:01 PM  

Vox Says:
" Very, very few people are capable of even entertaining the possibility of anything that violates the narrative they currently accept, let alone believing it, on the mere testimony of others. And any mind with sufficient knowledge of the human heart would know that."

And therein lies the rub so to speak. Back in the 1980s, there was two factions looks for control of the "American mind" if we can call it that. There were the liberals, and there was this "moral majority" church lady thing. Remember PMRC? Who was a big wheel in that? Tipper Gore.

Both factions, as I remember, seemed to have dialectic approaches. Both talked about "educating" people. Both talked about enlightening the masses. You can tell the differences though, by their complaints. One faction complained about people having kids, using up fossil fuels, not hugging trees, and that usual old school 80 liberal claptrap. The other faction was all about morals and "family values". There are family values, but the way it was being couched and extolled by that faction was a little creepy. In as much as the left now expects us to pay for someone else's decisions, the family values thing seemed equally detached from agency of the people who decided to have them. They were not entirely wrong, they just did it wrong. We can make a case for civilization whereby family values are protected. This faction was more into complaining about people not going to church enough, not being Christ-cucked enough (because both factions were a neocon movement), and not being "moral" enough while lending morality or capability of it only to people who fit certain criteria. If you are not being immoral, it was not enough to be moral. Same cloth the SJWs derive from: if you don't virtue signal then you are the enemy.

Now, which faction won? We know it was the leftist/degenerate faction. If it was the church lady faction, we would be seeing the SAME crap. Only instead of, like with the leftists, not virtue signalling love of all things LGBT makes you a heretic, if the church ladies were in charge, then not signalling dislike of all things LGBT would also make you a heretic.
It's extremism either way and the NPCs lack stomach for it. It smells funny even to them.
But how did the leftist faction win over the church ladies?
Simple. The leftists figured out that the masses cannot be "educated and enlightened". That was when they just accepted it, dropped the dialectic, and went to rhetoric. The church ladies were left in the dust.
The libertarian movement keeps reenacting this same failed war by exclaiming how people "just need to be educated!" and gatekeeping conservative movements keep "exclaiming" to the left how much damage they are doing, as if the leftist don't know what they are doing. Oh they know exactly what they are doing and are doing it on purpose. But somehow trying to "educate" the masses, who cannot be educated, will save us.
It's no surprise that the leftists won in the late 80s. They had academia and the media on their side. These are fields that contain study of people, history, and how mass/mob movements think and operate. They had the psychiatric studies on conformity and manipulation. And they decided to use that knowledge.

Sorry for the long-winded here. I am a very fast typist.

Blogger JAG December 22, 2018 11:21 PM  

It would be like somebody insisting to me that they were "Cabbage Pitch" dolls. They could show me unopened boxes, and I would still know it was false.

Berensteen

Blogger Bill December 22, 2018 11:23 PM  

While we're talking about conspiracies to control the dissemination of information, here's one concerning Vox and Stefan. A few months ago, I tried to start a thread on the Freedomain board asking if people were interested in seeing Vox and Stefan debate Christianity. The profanity filter blocked my post. It was a very short post and there was no profanity in it. I assumed it was a glitch, nothing suspicious. So I tried searching the forum for "Vox Day", to verify that the name was triggering the profanity filter. I found a post mentioning Vox Day, but the person's next post was something to the effect of "I seem to have done something wrong and I don't know what.", and they had a strike on their reputation. I decided to post about the problem under the technical issues section to notify administration. I tried various ways of avoiding the word ("Fox Day with a V", ect), but each time my post was flagged and marked as pending review for profanity. Ultimately I tried to privately message the other user who had used the name, hoping I could get to him post on my behalf, but at this point system wouldn't even allow me to send a private message. At some point during this I got a strike on my reputation, even though I had not successfully posted anything.

I don't have 100% certainty that this glitch was intentional, but I do know for certain that Stefan's website was recently the target of a conspiracy because he talked about it being attacked and having to pay for cyber security. Also the forum doesn't exist anymore.

Blogger Tom Terrific December 22, 2018 11:43 PM  

You must also consider the possibility that someone, perhaps "they", are trying to gaslight you. Here's my most prominent example:

I grew up in the sixties with "Smokey the Bear". Everybody knew Smokey the Bear. He was like a school mascot and every child learned early, "Only YOU can prevent forest fires."

Then, sometime in the early to mid-80s, people started referring to him as "Smokey Bear". As if "Bear" were his last name! On all the government inspired ad council commercials from that period on, he has been called "Smokey Bear".

That shouldn't have been a problem, right? I mean, big deal! Who cares if his name is Smokey Bear or Smokey The Bear? Except for ONE thing!

They REFUSED to present it that way. Everybody, and I do mean EVERYBODY, with any kind of government connection or job, even my sister-in-law who was the same age as me but an elementary school teacher, kept INSISTING that Smokey had ALWAYS BEEN "Smokey Bear"! And whenever I have encountered someone with this false memory NOTHING I say can get them to change their mind. Yet when I talk to all the other adults who grew up during the same period, the 50s, 60s, and even into the 70s, we ALL remember he was ALWAYS "Smokey THE Bear".

Looking over the internet archive of all things "Smokey", I've come to the conclusion that Smokey NEVER had last name. He was always just, "Smokey". That's what his hat said. And his belt buckle. So it was completely reasonable for people, especially children, to refer to him as, "Smokey the Bear". The bear named, "Smokey". There doesn't appear to be anything official about it. It was simply how he was known to America's school children.

Until some asshat in the government decided that just wasn't RIGHT and started using their advertising budget to give him a last name, "Smokey Bear". And to be honest, I couldn't give a rat's ass that they did that. What PISSES ME OFF, and everyone who was a kid in the 50s and 60s is, "Don't fxcking LIE to us and tell us "Smokey Bear" was ALWAYS his name. No, it wasn't. It was JUST Smokey! There is just as much evidence from those decades what he wasn't named "Smokey Bear" as there is that he also wasn't named "Smokey The Bear". That's just what WE CHILDREN called him as a hook for his identity. Not as Smokey, but as a bear.

Crazy Rant Ends.

Blogger The Deplorable Podunk Ken Ramsey December 22, 2018 11:44 PM  

I had no experience of the Berenstain Bears or whatever they are called. It was Jiffy Peanut Butter. As a kid I was a peanut butter snob (these are the precursors of wine snobs). And there was a Jiffy brand of peanut butter, dammit. I was very opinionated about that.

But apparently now there was no brand of Jiffy peanut butter. Apparently that was all in my head.

It's very strange.

Blogger R Doom December 22, 2018 11:56 PM  

I have hard core Star Wars fans friends, to the point that they can do the lightsaber fight choreography. They sure don't remember the "I am your father line" like it was in the m movie...I don't remember it that way, either but I chalked it up to faulty memory. But these guys watches those movies dozens, if not hundreds of times and still got it wrong?

Blogger Joseph Dooley December 22, 2018 11:59 PM  

We got my daughter a Bernstein Bears book this year. I too thought the books had been rebranded Berenstain.

Blogger maniacprovost December 23, 2018 12:09 AM  

https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jiffy+peanut+butter

My only working theory on the Berenstein Bears is that kids read those books in 1st grade, but don't learn cursive until 3rd grade.

I don't have very good photographic memory, but I alwayse pronounced it Berenstein (steen), like what was obviously written on the cover.

Blogger JAG December 23, 2018 12:16 AM  

You know, another possible explanation is the They Live Hypothesis. I don't want to say it was aliens, but it was aliens who may be broadcasting surface images over command words such as OBEY as an electromagnetic illusion. Such aliens could change the surface image, and apply that as an algorithm to the whole planet. Peoples' memories would remain unchanged even as the illusion changes before them.

While this is similar to the Matrix Hypothesis it differs in that the illusion takes place in the physical world. This would explain digging out your attic to find the boxed Berenstein Bears books only to find them reading as Berenstain.

Blogger Scott Birch December 23, 2018 12:17 AM  

Eensteen

Blogger Off The Wall December 23, 2018 12:18 AM  

Can anybody here see the fnords?

Blogger maniacprovost December 23, 2018 12:31 AM  

Chartreuse (color) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(color)
Chartreuse is a color between yellow and green

WHAT TIMELINE AM I EVEN IN
How can I sleep now?

Blogger daniel walsh December 23, 2018 1:24 AM  

Brilliant!

Blogger Amos Bellomy December 23, 2018 1:42 AM  

Not for nothing, but I find it more than merely less improbable. I find it MUCH less improbable, for the simple reason that I and everybody else I know really do misremember stuff a lot. It's a thing I know happens.

Is it possible that we're being influenced somehow to remember things wrong? Sure, yeah. Lots of things are technically not impossible. It's also possible that I was kidnapped as a child and am being raised by a family who just happens to look a lot like me. I tend to doubt it, though.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 23, 2018 2:26 AM  

I chalk it up to significant underflow of a recognizable-dissociation threshold in the brain's memory compression mechanism. Berenstein? Everyone said it that way before I ever saw the books... "Jiff" peanut butter, because when does English ever leave an "f" like that single, and isn't it so much like a word for quickness or those oil change shops?

Blogger JAG December 23, 2018 2:33 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:I chalk it up to significant underflow of a recognizable-dissociation threshold in the brain's memory compression mechanism. Berenstein? Everyone said it that way before I ever saw the books... "Jiff" peanut butter, because when does English ever leave an "f" like that single, and isn't it so much like a word for quickness or those oil change shops?

It's the nature of the Stein vs Stain. Can you recall any other time a "stain" was misread for "steen"? Jif vs Jiffy is much easier to comprehend happening. Nobody thought it was "The Stein Specialist" that Billy Mays was pitching on TV, and that is what makes the Berenstein vs stain controversy more compelling.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 3:50 AM  

@16

That's not a conspiracy. That's enemy action.

It's like in WW2, when a cargo ship fails to arrive at it's destination for no defined reason.

It's not a conspiracy that the ship was sunk by a torpedo. Nobody saw the sub come, and nobody saw the sub leave... but the ship was discovered, pursued, its hull breached without warning, and the ship was sunk with all hands lost. And some of those ships went down so quickly (especially if carrying gasoline) that the radio operator would never have enough time to put out an "SOS This is XYZ at location AB 123 456 Torpedoed."

Especially if he happened to be away from the radio shack at the time of the torpedoing.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 3:55 AM  

@17

The Smokey the Bear vs. Smokey Bear thing...

I believe the purpose is to divide the millenials and later from anyone outside of the government/education establishment -- here, take something that is so well-known, and iconic -- change it in some trivial, but obvious way. Now if you talk to a child about "Smokey, the bear", he immediately thinks, "Oh man, this guy's f*ing senile!"

It is all about making children distrust non-approved adults.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 4:02 AM  

@18

"But apparently now there was no brand of Jiffy peanut butter. Apparently that was all in my head.

It's very strange."

As a child, I remember seeing Jiffy peanut butter on store shelves. Then, when I was in high school, they started an advertising campaign, with the slogan, "Choosy mothers choose Jif"

"Choosy mothers choose Jiffy" would have sounded a bit off, so they just rebranded the product from Jiffy to Jif, and never looked back.

Personally, I couldn't stand Jif, or any of the other brands that dumped a load of sugar into their product.

Velvet (a brand apparently just local to Southeast Michigan) or other low-cost brands are the only type I have ever liked.

Something I could never understand ... if eating lunch a friend's house, and their mom made us peanut butter sandwiches... how many of these women kept the peanut butter in the refrigerator. For what reason, I don't know. But cold peanut butter is rather off-putting.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 4:10 AM  

It could also be a conflation between Jif and Skippy, the other heavily advertised (and in my taste, also far too sugary) brand.

Blogger Shimshon December 23, 2018 4:25 AM  

I remember the books. It is Berenstein for me too.

Blogger Shimshon December 23, 2018 4:26 AM  

The red-blue shift happened with Bush-Gore in 2000.

Blogger Shimshon December 23, 2018 4:50 AM  

It's never off topic to announce a purchase of Jordanetics. I got it shipped via Better World Books to Israel for $22, cheaper than Amazon. Would've got it from Castalia if they shipped here. Look forward to that day.

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 23, 2018 4:57 AM  

Bill wrote:I don't have 100% certainty that this glitch was intentional, but I do know for certain that Stefan's website was recently the target of a conspiracy because he talked about it being attacked and having to pay for cyber security. Also the forum doesn't exist anymore.

The forum was largely moderated by James, someone that used to help Stefan from back in the day. I posted there for a few years but it gradually became more and more difficult to use without having any sort of indication why. Posts would get "marked for review" constantly which had you wait hours or even days for them to show on the forum. Then some replies with trigger words got flagged for review as well and again you had to wait about a day to see what anyone said. Some posts got flagged randomly. At some point the chat function was removed even though a lot of people used it. The donator section of the forum was removed entirely. The donator only content section was removed as well.

A lot of top users just gave up on the forum. Last year I got the same profanity flag for using the word "Richard Spencer".

I don't really know what exactly happened. If I were to take a guess it felt like someone put some bots into place as moderators and then just left it be. Stefan stopped posting there years back and Mike mostly did updates. I think they erased it completely because there was no point to it anymore now that it was mostly barren.

Ignoring his community is an idiotic move on Stefan's part. When his YT channel got deleted someone from the forums managed to get a back-up of all his vids. That same person was the guy who created the fdr.podcasts site. One of his top researchers was also some guy from the forums. Mike originated from there as well.

Blogger Stilicho December 23, 2018 5:47 AM  

It was Berenstein. I recall it from tv ads where it was pronounced steen..
It was Smokey the bear. He fought forest fires. What's this wildfire nonsense?

Blogger dadofhomeschoolers December 23, 2018 5:56 AM  

Hear about the priest running up from the archives screaming IT SAYS CELEBRATE!

Blogger justthinkin December 23, 2018 6:21 AM  

Most people remember it as Berenstein because it's the most familiar spelling. In this case, it would be easy to misremember because of that. I remember BerenSTAIN because I had never come across that name before, and misspellings and odd spellings usually jump off the page at me.

Blogger Brian Dean December 23, 2018 6:47 AM  

Since the Berenstein bears also tell people they should clean their rooms:

(source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ9T5D1KiGg )

this proves that the Berenstein Bears and Jordan Peterson are in cahoots with the same globalists who wish to dominate the world.

Blogger Matt December 23, 2018 6:53 AM  

The crust is the healthiest part of the bread!

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 23, 2018 7:16 AM  

Vox's afro-americans story reminded me of this: https://vimeo.com/202443968

Blogger Stilicho December 23, 2018 7:20 AM  

Some of it could be the brain auto_correcting the stupid mistakes of dull normals (you encounter many examples every day... see, e.g. than/then). Only in some cases, they aren't mistakes: berenstain is just an oddball name; Froot Loops is just a dumbass marketing schtick. It does not explain things like Mandela's death in prison.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 7:26 AM  

I'm willing to bet that half the people who claimed that they remember Mandela dying in prison didn't even know who he was when it originally came up on some questionnaire, and they just guess checked "died in prison" as one of the possible options.

Not many people really kept up on the craziness going on in S. Africa during the 80's.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 23, 2018 8:19 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bollman December 23, 2018 8:23 AM  

Do you remember seeing the video of Nikita Khrushchev where he was so upset that he banged his shoe on his desk? That also never happened, apparently.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Shoe-banging_incident

Blogger Iamblichus II December 23, 2018 8:26 AM  

I didn't think Vox was a Mandela effect type of person. Also Gilligan from Gilligans island, his hat is now grey not white. The Taj Mahal is now 1/4 its original size

Blogger JaimeInTexas December 23, 2018 8:28 AM  

The switch from "these uSA" to "the uSA" one of the most successful revisionisms.

The continuing revolution through reinterpretation that has effectively created the unlimited Federal Government. The 9th and 10th amendments are for all practices not existent, "Congress shall not" is now "Congress shall," POTUS is our Commander In Chief, and many other examples.

Blogger Gregory the Great December 23, 2018 9:05 AM  

Wikipedia entry in 2050 re Santa Claus:
Birth: 24th of December
Life: Famous for coining the phrase "Love thy neighbour as yourself" which initiated the custom of giving presents to neighbours and next of kin in celebration of his birthday. Received the award "single biggest Amazon customer" thirty years in a row.
Death: car accident at pedestrian crossing in central Jerusalem. Claus was run over by the reckless Italian driver Pilate (founder of the Pilates movement).
Not much later, however, Claus was resurrected by unanimous decision of the Amazon Board of Directors as the Easter Bunny. Both his birth and his resurrection are celebrated by many to this day.
Merry Christmas Everybody!

Blogger Wuzzums Fuzzums December 23, 2018 9:21 AM  

Paul Ekman can teach anyone in less than one year how to detect lies with the same accuracy as a lie detector yet he has no clients. He learned that truth doesn't matter to people as does their personal beliefs. We can see this everywhere with stuff like "healthy at every size", "women are strong and independent", the nerdy awkward gamma guy gets the girl in the end, and so on.

So this whole planting of false memories thing to revise history is pointless. What you have to do in order for people to remember stuff differently is to sell them on the idea. BerenstEin just sounds better therefore people will naturally gravitate towards it. The spelling is just a false memory after the fact. We assume it's also spelled that way because we like to pronounce it as BerenstEin. If you sell them on the idea first people will rationalize anything in order to trick themselves into thinking the idea is correct.

Jordan Peterson says loser men can be heroes therefore loser men follow Jordan Peterson and actively rewire their brains into thinking he's not a lunatic. They induce selective amnesia towards the things they don't like about JBP and imbue nonexistent meaning into the things they like.

Same thing goes with this whole Moon-landing kerfuffle. It's not about the actual event, it's about what the event means for the people promoting it. Americans are very patriotic and they're sold on the idea that it's "the greatest country in the world". The Moon landing is linked to that therefore any attack on the Moon-landing narrative is an attack on the narrative as a whole.


TL;DR: it's all in the selling of an idea. If you achieve that part then the person will rewrite their memories themselves without any sort of outside help.

Blogger VD December 23, 2018 9:33 AM  

What you have to do in order for people to remember stuff differently is to sell them on the idea. BerenstEin just sounds better therefore people will naturally gravitate towards it. The spelling is just a false memory after the fact. We assume it's also spelled that way because we like to pronounce it as BerenstEin.

No. I can no more be convinced that the books were called THE BERENSTAIN BEARS than the Apple II game was called CASTLE WOLFENSTAIN.

Blogger Wilverine December 23, 2018 9:37 AM  

I remember reading about the rock group INXX many years ago, because I always thought it was a weird name, what's "inxx"? Of course now it's INXS, but I cannot shake that memory, and cannot find any reference anywhere to the INXX I "mis-remembered."

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 23, 2018 9:49 AM  

I don't think anyone will ever convince me that a conspiracy could have gotten into a cardboard carton in my parents' attic that had been closed for 20+ years and changed out a couple of small, thin, poorly bound books.

Therefore I chalk "Berenstein" up to assuming the name had an Ashkenazim-style ending when it never actually did.

Blogger J Van Stry December 23, 2018 10:13 AM  

Many years ago I collected several sets of 'old' encyclopedias and dictionaries (from the 40's, 50's, and 60's) from estate sales I was going to. It's been very educational to look certain subjects up in them, like say 'Palestinians' and compare what was said then versus now.
In the 1970s our history started to 'change' when certain groups with money went out and blatantly started paying for things to be re-written. Forty years later and no one cares anymore, and any outraged parties are call conspiracy nutcases and everyone moves on.
Others have now seen how well that works and are doing it too. Academics are apparently both quick and happy to sell out. Same for all of the vaunted encyclopedia companies and news agencies.

Blogger Redpill Angel December 23, 2018 10:54 AM  

Unbelievable things are happening now. Unbelievable. A close relative whose diapers I used to change now has a Ph.D. in something I don't understand and is working with other scientists to invent ways to read people's minds. Yes. "Their skulls get in the way," he says morosely. "Has the CIA called you yet?" I asked. Silence.

Blogger electricsheeple December 23, 2018 11:05 AM  

I am a Christian. I did a 15 minute presentation in front of my high school history class back in 2003 on South Africa. And I would swear on a Bible that Nelson Mandela died in prison "in my past."

Blogger State Estimation December 23, 2018 11:09 AM  

I had the Berenstein Bear books. The first time I saw it spelled Berenstain I had a visceral "that's not right" reaction.

I was a bookworm and pretty detail oriented.

I wish I still had those books.




Blogger Bultz December 23, 2018 11:10 AM  

The one that gets everyone, 100% hit rate, is asking them what colour the A-Team van was. Nobody gets that right, I understand there can be subtle manipulations to google where things like this can be put into search engines and make you question your own memory, but it is odd that every single person I've asked what colour that A-Team van was gets it wrong.

Personally, I write code for a living, I find myself easily able to relate how code and its methodology maps to real life and the way peoples minds work. In-built defensive sub routine reactions, mixed with self developed routines that become automatic over time and help shape how you respond to other experiences based on how you relate them to your experience. Reality being a "simulation" I can easily relate to, and that could also help explain these mandela oddities

Blogger Ingot9455 December 23, 2018 11:11 AM  

Memory is a funny thing.
It's important to remember that in most cases, memory is an encoding of symbols that link to other symbols.
If you have a barn, a tractor, some tools, a workshop in the barn; your memories are not a photograph of the barn (unless you are a special person with a gift). Each tool or object has its related memories, like when you bought it, how long you had it, and its linkages, like what important project you used it for and finally, where you keep it. The barn.
Let's say you bought a glue gun twenty years ago. You used it once for a not-real-important project and you stored it in the barn underneath the other tools. It's linked to the barn and to the tools, but it's not important and so the memory fades.
So when you need a glue gun for a project you try to say to yourself, "Do I have a glue gun amongst my tools in the barn?" you are trying to tag onto your 'glue gun' symbol while trying to link to it from 'list of tools' and from 'tools in barn' and other possible linkages like 'smell of glue' and 'location of objects.' But it's been twenty years and all these lists in your head are tenuous and filled with other things.

And your brain runs space-saving compression operations, so the glue gun might get confused with the soldering gun or the powered screwdriver as they fall in the categories of 'things with triggers that do a thing.'

A lot of study and a lot of experiments have been performed on how memory works.
And everything that I've written so far is bullshit, because as we've discussed, psychology based science is crap for 50% repeatable.

So let me try to say a few things that are less controversial.

Smart people have better symbols, better linkages, and faster traversal and recovery of those linkages in the recovering of their memory. They also have better compression of symbols; able to crisply maintain a difference between, say, their normal screwdriver and their special screwdriver with the additional torx security heads kept in the handle.
There are different types of memory recall - visual, audible, spatial, symbolic and others.
There are different types of memory triggers - smell and music are big ones. You can always remember the smell of your mother's cooking or of special people in your life.

All of this is a way of saying that the most likely reason for these events is a trick of how memory works. The '-stein' or '-stien' ending to a name is a thousand times more common to all of us than the Berenstain Bears name was. So when asked, especially verbally, to spell it sight unseen; almost all of us with a faded 20+ years ago memory will trigger to our general knowledge of 'how names work' to spell it with a 'stein'.

People who have kids and who have a fresh memory of reading the book will remember it the right way.
I personally, when I saw the words 'Berenstain' and 'Berenstein' in text, immediately knew that it was '-stain' because my textual memory is stronger than my audible memory and was able to maintain the right symbol. But when I heard it, I defaulted.

Blogger State Estimation December 23, 2018 11:15 AM  

Maybe there were misprints in the "about the author" text, or the "books by the same author" list. No way I made Berenstein up. I had no concept of correct or "normal" Jewish or German name spellings.

Blogger KBuff December 23, 2018 11:47 AM  

I don't know what to tell you. I remember them as Berenstain because I always thought it was such a bizarre name. Perhaps I'm the one who doesn't remember correctly?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 23, 2018 12:12 PM  

"No way I made Berenstein up. I had no concept of correct or "normal" Jewish or German name spellings."

I didn't know exactly what the pattern pertained to at the time, but I knew there WAS a pattern there.

Blogger nbfdmd December 23, 2018 12:14 PM  

It comes down to a very simple question: Has reality been altered, including the past (because the old books have the "-stain" spelling), or do people have false memories?

If you believe the former, than you must also believe these three things:

1) the government / TPTB have the power of time travel.

2) no evidence of any kind is valid. If you can't trust a 40 year old physical copy of a book as evidence, then you can't trust anything.

3) memory, or at least YOUR memory, is infallible.

Logic is a bitch, ain't it?

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown December 23, 2018 12:50 PM  

Vox vs. The Mandela Effect?!?

This is an early Christmas present.

Blogger VD December 23, 2018 1:13 PM  

Logic is a bitch, ain't it?

Not in the slightest, midwit. You're pointing out the obvious. Literally everyone here knows all that. The only question is whether you believe the impossible is more likely than the improbable.

We all know that human memory can be fallible. But we also know that there are parties who are attempting to exploit fallible human memory and that there is more to reality than we currently understand.

What you clearly don't understand is that this discussion is taking place over your head and your assumptions. We understand you. We know why you are skeptical and don't necessarily disagree. You simply don't understand those with minds sufficiently open to consider the impossible.

Blogger VD December 23, 2018 1:15 PM  

The '-stein' or '-stien' ending to a name is a thousand times more common to all of us than the Berenstain Bears name was. So when asked, especially verbally, to spell it sight unseen; almost all of us with a faded 20+ years ago memory will trigger to our general knowledge of 'how names work' to spell it with a 'stein'.

That's ridiculous. I grew up in Minnesota. "Stain" was a considerably more common word than anything with "stein" in it. Would you buy it if someone told you that the computer game was called "Castle Wolfenstain"?

Blogger Solaire Of Astora December 23, 2018 1:16 PM  

I remember it as stain with an a. I remember as a kid it making me think of stains on my clothes and specicially how odd it was because it WASn'T stein since that is the common spelling. I was born in 1989 but I've known people younger than me who remembered stein so I doubt it's my being born after the change plus people who have kept their old books in the attic like the angry video game nerd have found the stain spelling is there.

Blogger maniacprovost December 23, 2018 1:31 PM  


If you believe the former, than you must also believe these three things:

1) the government / TPTB have the power of time travel.


Nah, people slipping into similar alternative timelines is more plausible, as is the matrix UI glitch.

Different people remember the changes at different times, so it's not an instantaneous across the board phenomenon.

Blogger nbfdmd December 23, 2018 2:28 PM  

@66:

At least we agree that what you're entertaining is impossible. By the way, name calling, not an argument.

As to your argument, please explain how the TPTB are exploiting human fallible memory to alter the timeline. I don't see how a good knowledge of psychology gives you time travel. Care to make that connection?

@67:

"Stain" was a more common word, but "-stein" was the more common NAME ending. We're talking about NAMES, not general words.

Blogger Feminism Must Die December 23, 2018 2:30 PM  

I have a distinct memory of my kindergarten teacher telling us that our parents were mispronouncing the title and that it actually said "Berenstain."

People expected to see "Berenstein" and so that's what they saw.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 2:34 PM  

@53

"I remember reading about the rock group INXX many years ago, because I always thought it was a weird name, what's "inxx"? Of course now it's INXS, but I cannot shake that memory, and cannot find any reference anywhere to the INXX I "mis-remembered.""

You misread it. I have been a fan of INXS since the early 1980's. It's always been INXS. You misread it the first time, and didn't realize it until years later.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 2:35 PM  

@54
"Therefore I chalk "Berenstein" up to assuming the name had an Ashkenazim-style ending when it never actually did."

Ditto.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 23, 2018 2:43 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Ingot9455 December 23, 2018 2:56 PM  

I played Wolfenstein much much more than I read the Berenstain books - there were only a few out at the time and Dr. Seuss was much more popular. So my memory is going to be much stronger for Wolfenstein than it is for Berenstain/Berenstein.

Also, in terms of the symbols, 'Berenstain' goes into your list of 'formal names' and is categorized and efficientized on that basis. It doesn't relate immediately to 'wood stain' that you get at the hardware floor or 'floor stain' that you wipe up with a mop, even though those are words that you use commonly.

Blogger Vaughan Williams December 23, 2018 3:25 PM  

Thinking back, I always remembered it as "Berenstein", but today, reading this thread, I thought back harder to the days when I was in grade 1 and the Berenstain bears were one of the first books I learned to read. And sure enough, tucked away in my muscle memory, when my hands would write out the words, yes, they wrote out Berenstain, not Berenstein. Different types of memory. Verbally, I expected Berenstein. But I remember how long it took me to spell Berenstain right. It was a bit of a road bump. I didn't know why at the time.

Humans tend to go with what people around them say, over the evidence of their own senses. Even as a kid in Grade 1, I tried to spell Berenstain as Berenstein, but the teacher doing the marking didn't let me get away with it.

Wolfenstein "fits". Wolfenstain doesn't. Wolfenstan might have, if set farther east. Berenstein "fits". Berenstain doesn't. Some things are easier to remember because they don't violate expectations and they are easier for the compression algorithms to compress down.

Blogger Ingot9455 December 23, 2018 3:28 PM  

@76 Different people will have different memory strengths. You can even train various memory strengths. There's some excellent books out there on it, like the Mega-Memory program, that people use to do those memory feats like remember everyone's name in a theater.

Blogger cyrus83 December 23, 2018 5:47 PM  

I went into the parents' attic to see if any of the books from childhood were still on hand from the 1980s. I found 4 Berenstain Bears books that have the look and feel of something that's been in attic storage for many years, as nobody has been of the age to read these books in more than 20 years.

I remember it as Berenstein, but I will go with what my eyes see in the present over what the memory thinks it saw some 25 years ago as a kid.

I suppose it is possible the name was originally Berenstein, but my memory is inaccurate on more than just proper names from old kids' books, I have no real reason to trust my memory over the physical evidence presented by actual books my parents kept on so trivial a matter. It is a far simpler explanation than a mind trick or somebody breaking in and searching through thousands of books to replace those four.

Blogger 罗臻 December 23, 2018 6:57 PM  

Remember that video where you're told to count how many times the basketball is passed and then at the end they ask, "did you see the gorilla?" Like me, you never read the title. You heard the stories read to you before you could read. Your parents said Berenstein and so did everyone else. You never read the title because you already knew it.

Blogger Joseph Maroney December 23, 2018 8:27 PM  

Vox's analysis of the so called Mandela Effect is spot-on. It's a program to see how receptive the public is to historical revisionism. We've always had Fake News, it just hasn't been a part of the public consciousness until the last few years. The Big Lie indeed. How could they possibly lie about stuff like this?

They follow after the Father of Lies.

Blogger VD December 23, 2018 8:35 PM  

Like me, you never read the title. You heard the stories read to you before you could read. Your parents said Berenstein and so did everyone else. You never read the title because you already knew it.

Nope. My parents didn't read those books to me. I read them to my brothers.

Blogger VD December 23, 2018 8:41 PM  

At least we agree that what you're entertaining is impossible.

You are clearly not anywhere nearly tall enough for the ride here. Did you really imagine for one nanosecond that I was not perfectly aware of that?

This is why I find midwits so tedious. They genuinely think everyone doesn't grasp the completely obvious.

"Stain" was a more common word, but "-stein" was the more common NAME ending. We're talking about NAMES, not general words.

Not where I grew up.

Blogger Iamblichus II December 24, 2018 5:00 AM  


Mandela #191: Gilligans hat has changed color


https://46fjj12eeht73lsxezcqpvlt-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/history-of-bucket-hats-john-denver-not-the-musician-on-gilligans-island-image-via-cbs.jpg


Blogger The Greay Man December 24, 2018 10:15 AM  

I think there was a Berenstein Bears tv show. I don't remember what years it aired.

I wonder how it was pronounced on there.

Blogger nbfdmd December 24, 2018 12:12 PM  

@84: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAzXrOVIjUY

Of course, a youtube video could be faked too, so this won't convince anyone. Just posting for reference.

Blogger Angantyr December 24, 2018 2:07 PM  

Along these lines I have a distinct memory, during the flood of live news reports on 9/11, of catching a broadcast stating that one of our fighter planes had shot down a jet liner (Flight 93). Now, it appears that VP Chaney had in fact ordered our planes to engage and shoot down any hijacked airliners, but that it proved unnecessary because of the heroic passengers on the flight. But that one nagging little newsflash, long since memory holed, has always made me wonder if the official story is false, and that the Flight 93 was in fact shot down as initially reported, and the cover story created as sort of a unifying myth of the events of that day. Only my (admittedly faulty) memory has any record of this. I wonder what really happened?

Blogger Daniel December 24, 2018 7:55 PM  

Not berentains bears in Argentina. But c3po silver leg? Separation between the v and the w in volkswagen logo? Wtf?

Blogger Sagramore December 25, 2018 3:14 PM  

@86 Peter Jennings said it. I remember it too.

Blogger xevious2030 December 26, 2018 4:37 PM  

I tend to like the notion of a variation to Egon “Could be race memory stored in the collective unconscious.” Which is something also for consideration. But anyway.

So, “Could be erased memory stored in the collective unconscious.”

I mean, a lot can get chalked up to statistical probability for error, highlighted by “validation” in a mass communication and transportation era, but not likely everything. I mean, when you throw in walking on water, turning water to good wine, and a world being run by the father of lies now, not to mention the simple reality of “distributed” of “non-first hand” news/entertainment, targeted disinformation/manipulation (even as a psychology experiment) is worth consideration. The whole multiple universes thing seems a bit off, when manipulation of a very tiny portion of one (the thinking/memory of a portion of a few billion people) would be a far smaller leap. Either way, erasing and replacing, or false initial presentation (even relevant cues, such as the pronunciation or announcement in one advertisement or set of localized broadcasts, reinforced by a non-related memory cue in very close proximal time which provides emotional investment that sticks without a direct link). It does not have to be enough to be likely, and would probably have to be set to only be likely in the outlier field.

Or people could just be nuts.

Overall though, the revision aspect seems the most probable, with the “how” or the degree being the only big question of difficulty to answer, and it starts off with a really low level of difficulty.

Blogger xevious2030 December 27, 2018 11:04 AM  


Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Apparently, that time has come, of a wonder. As a child, Roman Catholic, there were at least two things ingrained, the “Hail Mary,” and “The Lord’s Prayer.” It was always “and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Said hundreds, thousands of times. Catholics in their chanting unison, in the vernacular, more specific the English brought on by Vatican II for English speaking countries such as the US. It was in the Bible. And if you look, now, “trespass” is not to be found in Matthew 6:12 anymore, not in any Bible, not anymore. (repeated for emphasis)

This page quotes the Lord’s Prayer and says:

“’Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.' (Matthew 6:12)”
https://fervr.net/bible/forgive-us-our-trespasses

The page provides a link to the verse. When you click the link, it says:

“And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.”
https://biblia.com/bible/niv/Matt%206.12

The page anticipates a quotation that provides the original proof (exact quote) of what is said on the page. But the link does not.

Add to that, I went to all of my various bibles, some of them old (50 or so years, post Vatican II), and they all say “debts” and “debt.” Ones I know said “trespasses” and “trespass.” Go online to the variety of Protestant and other variations, ones that can’t agree on anything, no any word, and they are uniform in “debts” and “debt.” Which is really funny, as, for now at least, Matthew 6:14 (KJV) explains why you should forgive those that trespass against you. Debt being “Opheilema,” and “trespass” being “Paraptoma.” Paraptoma does not explain Opheilema in the way Mathew 6:12 provides. And certainly not in the form of trespass” and debt.” Forgiving for straying from a path is not the same as forgiving those who should be grateful to you. They can both be a part of the same experience, but they are not the same thing, and one does not explain the other for better clarification.

Apparently this page made note as well:
“’Forgive Us Our Trespasses.’ Where'd That Come From?”
http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2012/12/forgive-us-our-trespasses-whered-that.html

The book links it to the Book of Common Prayer” (1549), which is Anglican, or Protestant, or in challenge to Roman Catholic. And I know Catholics have not been using a Protestant variation when reciting the Lord’s Prayer. And Roman Catholics have been saying “trespass,” since I was a kid, in any Catholic church I have been in. This is not to reflect on Catholic, Protestant, whatever. It has to do with something longstanding in memory, practiced over and over again, and not a simple pronunciation error. Which can be verified as not in print right where it was.

In other words, the reality of today reflects that “trespass” is not in the Lords Prayer. It is insane not to recognize that is what the reality of today says. There is no doubt to that, it is recognized. And the reality of the past in memory reflects that it was “trespass.” There is no doubt to that either, there just isn’t. Which brings me back to the “wonders” of Matthew 24:24. For the word “deceive” (Planao, in Greek) is not to fool, but to lead away in error, a straying of the mind from the Truth. And the Word of God, as written, is a part of that Truth. For, to forgive those for not returning the favor when we do good things for them is not the same as forgiving those who actually owe us something.

So, again, a time of “wonders.” "Teras," a "miracle." Right up there with throwing staffs down to become snakes, which then get eaten up by the one Moses throws down. The forces of evil are not prohibited from such things, it's time to remember that. At once, it was a staff, and then it was a snake. "Trespass," now "debt." Same thing, different scale.

Blogger xevious2030 December 27, 2018 11:10 AM  

Just to stir the pot, as a consideration, there is the plausible (plausible at least for those with poor memories) German pronunciation (second vowel first and strong, first vowel second and weak) of “stein” S-T-I-N-(silent)-e and the English pronunciation of “stein” (not to be confused with the Yiddish variation, or also the changing the Jewish name ending (-steen) to a German one sounding similar (-stein, meaning stone) in order to fit in as “not Jewish” but a good little German because my name sounds right now) S-T-E-E-N (capitols strong, lower case weak), coupled with a current writing stating “Berenstain” (German pronunciation would still be along the lines of BeReNSTIaN).

And also, if Americans that read Berenstain recognized it as a German word (tends to be forgotten now the generations that went to war there are gone and the new demographic familiarity no longer recognize such distinctions), and utilized German pronunciation, it would sound very similar to the “ei” in “Einstein.” Meaning, some consideration may have been arguments for which of the last two vowels one pronounced first.

Blogger JaimeInTexas December 27, 2018 12:29 PM  

"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."

George Orwell

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