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Monday, December 03, 2018

Voxiversity 010: Rhetoric and Dialectic

Voxiversity 010: Rhetoric and Dialectic is a bit different than previous Voxiversities, as it was filmed live in Barcelona in front of the Foundation members, who chose the topic and were throwing me questions while we were filming in order to help me remember to hit some of the important aspects of the subject.

The live element definitely led to some minor issues, such as the wind interfering with the audio and me declaring incorrectly that Aristotle lived around 2400 BC. Just to be clear, the latter is NOT true, he lived about 2400 years ago. But these mistakes notwithstanding, viewers are already declaring this to be one of the best and most substantive Voxiversities of the ten to date.
As you can see from the video, we had a really good time at the Foundation meeting and there was considerable strategerizing. We expect to announce one of the chief outcomes of that meeting early in the new year.

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52 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon December 03, 2018 5:49 AM  

One of? Absolutely outstanding. A home run with bases loaded. That kind of thing.

The production quality is also top notch (for my completely novice eye), regardless of minor glitches.

It does look you were having a lot of fun. Can you say how many members were present?

Blogger Rickaby007 December 03, 2018 5:54 AM  

Super high quality as always. These are worth saving and using as part of a home school curriculum.

Blogger Ranger December 03, 2018 6:09 AM  

Vox, do you think that calling people "Cultural Marxists" was ever good rhetoric, at least at a time when the openly Marxist Soviet Union was the main enemy of the US and the West? If yes, is it still good rhetoric today, when the main enemy, globalism, tries to conceal its connection to the Cultural Marxists of yesterday, and has a hold on education so that people today are not taught the dangers of marxism anymore? And if it is not good rhetoric, as I believe, what would be a good substitute? I think that the answer to this question is very important in the political changes going on in Brazil.

I had tried to ask this via email first but maybe it got lost in your box, or maybe you didn't care to answer, which is of course your right; I wouldn't even ask it again if this video about Rhetorics and Dialectics had not appeared so soon after my question.

Blogger Sam Spade December 03, 2018 6:10 AM  

I remember reading SJW's always lie, and how instantly resonated with me the chapter dedicated on this subject. Brilliant and plainly exposed. truth

No more frustration from that moment trying to do the impossible. Also improved a lot my communication with my girlfriend!

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 6:17 AM  

Cultural Marxists is not strong rhetoric, because people who happily wear Che on their shirts and dye their hair blue don't mind being called Marxists in the least. It's not bad in terms of rhetorically identifying the enemy to neutrals; it probably is very persuasive to conservatives who are locked into a Left-Right perspective rather than the more relevant Nationalist-Globalist or Satanist-Christian perspectives.

Rhetoric is emotion, so the question depends upon whom you are trying to emotionally affect. In this case, it's good rhetoric for neutrals, very poor rhetoric for targets.

Blogger Uncle John's Band December 03, 2018 6:38 AM  

This is an excellent presentation – clear, engaging, and packed with useful information without seeming pedantic at all, and just the right amount of triggering in the opening. The perfect tweet is a nice close. Overall, it is ideal for sharing, I’ve made this comment before, but it is worth repeating that the whole team is firing on all cylinders.

Cultural Marxism calls attention to a powerful aspect of globalist rhetoric – how hard it is to concisely identify who they are. If you are immersed in this, you are aware of the webs, but they work hard to stop any catch-all from gaining traction, like the surface of an adaptive virus. It’s like the no leaders strategy on an intergenerational cultural movement level.

Blogger wreckage December 03, 2018 6:53 AM  

Really great stuff. You sometimes come across a little stiff, contrast with very relaxed in this video. Tight editing kept the narrative on-point - again you sometimes either wander or attempt to speak the four ideas that you're branching on at once; whereas this was on rails.

All in all, it looks like you're continuing to refine and perfect the presentation of these Voxiversity videos. Now if you had a minion to add an exhaustive list of references to each one, that'd be even better, at least for me. Some people find citations very convincing by their mere existence, a fact that's been used as academic sleight-of-hand for decades, even if it's more famously associated with Wikipedia these days.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 03, 2018 7:13 AM  

This is going to be one of the most important videos in our time.

Blogger JACIII December 03, 2018 7:27 AM  

Well done.

Blogger Korppi on oikeus December 03, 2018 7:38 AM  

Rhetoric is emotion, so the question depends upon whom you are trying to emotionally affect. In this case, it's good rhetoric for neutrals, very poor rhetoric for targets.

Is it really poor though? For example, "dems are the real racists" is so ineffective that leftists don't even bother to react. But cultural marxism tends to get reactions. You can see all kinds of "debunkings" how there really isn't such a thing. So at least that term gets them on the defence which indicates some sensitivity.

Blogger GithYankee December 03, 2018 7:59 AM  

Great video! My favorite rhetoric is the picture of the beautiful white girl in the background, with the toothless aborigine in front.

One could simply find a picture of a beautiful mulatto like Halle Berry or something, and a fat, toothless white person (reversing polarity) and destroy this rhetoric. But nobody thinks of that, and I'm sure the meme as stands makes the point that race is real in a rhetorical sense. Dialectic would be a checklist of beauty measurements, and then a corresponding ratio of how many women in any particular group met these requirements, does IQ correspond with beauty, etc. Nobody wants to read that book, lol.

Blogger camcleat December 03, 2018 8:12 AM  

Master class. Thank-you.

Blogger JD Curtis December 03, 2018 8:13 AM  

I think SJW's thought the mere sound of the word 'Drumpf' carried more comedic value than it really does.
Kinda oversold it

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 8:21 AM  

Is it really poor though? For example, "dems are the real racists" is so ineffective that leftists don't even bother to react. But cultural marxism tends to get reactions.

It's poor, it's not terrible.

Kinda oversold it.

Most embarrassing mic-drop in history there.

Blogger JD Curtis December 03, 2018 8:34 AM  

Most embarrassing mic-drop in history there

This is that *rhetoric* thing, right?

Blogger Sillon Bono December 03, 2018 8:56 AM  

What about "Constant Leftist Brainwashing"?

Blogger megabar December 03, 2018 9:04 AM  

Good video. Thanks for these.

FWIW, I don't think "NPC" will stick, because the reality is that rank-and-file righties are just as much NPC as lefties, and lefties generally believe that their positions are based on sound logic. Indeed, they mostly are, if you are willing to accept incorrect assumptions.

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 9:09 AM  

I don't think "NPC" will stick, because the reality is that rank-and-file righties are just as much NPC as lefties, and lefties generally believe that their positions are based on sound logic.

You're wrong, because you are doing what dialectics-obsessed always do when trying to analyze rhetoric. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

They've already shown that they hate it and are emotionally susceptible to it. Which you should have known, considering how they fetishize terms like "thoughtful" and "independent". NPC completely violates those self-perceptions.

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 9:10 AM  

What about "Constant Leftist Brainwashing"?

Not even a little bit rhetorical. Seriously, did you not watch the video?

Blogger Seth Schueler December 03, 2018 9:11 AM  

You know that's not true.

Blogger Johnny December 03, 2018 9:18 AM  

In Christian theology a person has to be willing to admit to being a sinner to overcome sin. Going by what I have seen, in dialectic theology a person has to admit to being effected by the rhetoric to overcome it. Imagining that one's thoughts are the product of pure reason is the equivalent of not being willing to admit to sin. We are all taken in by rhetoric, dialectic is the willingness to reflect on it.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 03, 2018 9:32 AM  

Conservatives hate rhetoric because they fail every shit test sent their way. If I only could mass produce butthurt cream by the truck load and move it thru talk radio advertising I would own the world

Blogger Gregory the Great December 03, 2018 9:36 AM  

Very good and concise. One of the comments got me started thinking about a rhetorically better name for cultural marxists (obviously a subgroup of SJWs). Any suggestions?

Blogger Gregory the Great December 03, 2018 9:37 AM  

OT: Just received this notice from Amazon: Please be advised that we have a revised delivery date for the items you ordered on November 30 2018.

Day, Vox "Jordanetics: A Journey Into the Mind of Humanity's Greatest Thinker"
Estimated arrival date: January 04 2019 - February 09 2019

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 9:38 AM  

Please be advised that we have a revised delivery date for the items you ordered on November 30 2018.

This is why it's always better to order from Castalia Direct, if it is an option.

Blogger Trebor Nosemaj December 03, 2018 9:42 AM  

Thank you for the free education you provide Vox; far more substantial and effective than many types of four year degrees to be had in Universities for $10s of 1000s and a lot less wasted time.

Blogger Korppi on oikeus December 03, 2018 9:52 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Korppi on oikeus December 03, 2018 9:53 AM  

Like the "Social Justice Warrior", a "Strong Independent Woman" could become effective retoric at some point. Like the former, it is a positive description which some already use as a slur.

Blogger Warunicorn December 03, 2018 10:01 AM  

This was great. I finally learned about the whole "Drumpf" thing. WTF? This was all about a name change? So what? My father's side of the family used to have an umlaut over a vowel in our surname. (Origin: Germany.) They removed it when they came here. Because assimilation, NPC motherf*ckers.

I couldn't possibly call it anything other than stupid. And the fact that John Oliver was pushing it is even better.

Limey f*ckhead, he is.

Blogger JAG December 03, 2018 10:44 AM  

Korppi on oikeus wrote:Like the "Social Justice Warrior", a "Strong Independent Woman" could become effective retoric at some point. Like the former, it is a positive description which some already use as a slur.

"GRRRL Power" is more effective for that case.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 03, 2018 10:49 AM  

@3

Try Culture Killers instead.

The true believers will still proudly wear that label, but hitting normie guy with the idea that everything he loves is in the left's sights might be useful.

Hallway Monitors?
Hallway Police?

Blogger John Best December 03, 2018 10:52 AM  

@29 Limey, now that is good rhetoric.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 03, 2018 10:56 AM  

@17

"FWIW, I don't think "NPC" will stick"

That's absurd.

It literally reduces them to quivering, ranting, self-destructive piles of goo.

And they don't have any clue how to counter it -- because the one thing they value above everything else, is being seen as "the smartest guy in the room."

NPC flips everything upside down, and labels their reflexive, non-sequitor squid-ink responses as fact-free garbage, which only an idiot would buy into.

Blogger OneWingedShark December 03, 2018 12:03 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:NPC flips everything upside down, and labels their reflexive, non-sequitor squid-ink responses as fact-free garbage, which only an idiot would buy into.
More than that, it's preprogramed and implies that they have no free will, only following a script.

Heck, it would make for a devastating series of ads by a 3rd-party against the [essentially] forced-binary choice of Democrat vs Republican -- Imagine an ad with a caricatureized-robot voter, complete with the Dalek voice-changer effect, saying "NPC-bot must vote Democrat or Republican." or Republican-specific "NPC-bot must vote for Republican party because of [Firearm Freedoms]*, despite their inaction on [Firearm Freedoms]*." or Democrat-specific "NPC-bot must vote for endless immigration, must replace EVIL WHITE CHRISTIAN voters!"


* Case in point: how many Republicans have *EVER* voiced support for repeal of GCA or NFA? And it actually works for almost ANY Republican-party plank: abortion, fiscal responsibility, governmental accountability, tax-reform, repealing Obamacare, etc.

Blogger Rhys December 03, 2018 12:29 PM  

"because the one thing they value above everything else, is being seen as "the smartest guy in the room.""

It's not because of intellect. Social Justice Warriors are an outgrowth of secular humanism - the one thing they flaunt above everything else is their sense of humanity, and their love of "human beings" as some weirdo monolith. "NPC" literally insinuates that they are not even humans - but robots programmed to say those kinds of things, either for nefarious purposes or otherwise. That's why they complain so much about the fact that it's "dehumanizing", it robs them of their favorite weapon, which is endless appeals to humanitarianism.


Blogger ghostfromplanetspook December 03, 2018 12:32 PM  

Is that you and spacebunny in the thumbnail?

Blogger Starboard December 03, 2018 1:30 PM  

The meme wars have beeen a great lesson in rhetoric. I was surprised how effective "orange man bad" and NPC became. What is the point of the dems are the real racists, the real hypocrits, the real meanies, etc? Is it just outrage fuel for the right? Because, like you said, it doesn't get a reaction from the left.

My favorite failed rhetoric is still Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables." The right flipped it to adorable deplorables and les deplorables and it became a battle cry. The left trying to own Trump's "nasty woman" was cringingly hilarious.

Blogger Lance E December 03, 2018 1:35 PM  

megabar wrote:the reality is that rank-and-file righties are just as much NPC as lefties

They literally aren't. In fact, one of the best things about the NPC label is that in addition to the rhetorical impact, it can also be proven dialectically with the SCIENCE they fetishize so much.

"Conservatives are NPCs too" comes from the mouths of SJWs, and SJWs always lie.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 03, 2018 1:53 PM  

The whole 'conservatives are npcs too' is dumb. I'm sure any group can be broken down into observable patterns. Congrats.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 03, 2018 2:08 PM  

I've noticed calling homosexuals "sodomites" makes them completely flip out, every single time.

"The whole 'conservatives are npcs too' is dumb. I'm sure any group can be broken down into observable patterns. Congrats."

Yeah, they try to say we're NPCs who blindly follow Trump. Never mind that it takes much more brainpower to decide to follow a single man who's maligned by literally everyone of influence in the country rather than... everyone of influence in the country.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 03, 2018 2:41 PM  

@38

> "Conservatives are NPCs too" comes from the mouths of SJWs, and SJWs always lie.

Response: "That's exactly what NPC's are programmed to say."

NPC-reporter: [Rage Quit]

Blogger Dirk Manly December 03, 2018 2:43 PM  

@40

> "I've noticed calling homosexuals "sodomites" makes them completely flip out, every single time.

A lot of demons had to find new host bodies after Sodom was destroyed.

Blogger SirHamster December 03, 2018 3:01 PM  

Lance E wrote:"Conservatives are NPCs too" comes from the mouths of SJWs, and SJWs always lie.

Literal NPC response.

if (effective_insult_detected()) {
repeat_insult_back();
}

Blogger Uncle John's Band December 03, 2018 3:15 PM  

It's unbelievable. They deadnamed Trump then laughed at the foreign name! The left are such hypocrites. They had better wake up, or they aren't going to like where this goes.

Blogger Jill Domschot December 03, 2018 3:21 PM  

Conservatives aren't traditionally great at rhetoric because they want to be reasonable and don't understand why being reasonable doesn't work. If they were more self-aware, they would recognize how much they are affected and thrown into defensive positions by the left's rhetoric. But without self-awareness, they find themselves appeasing the left instead, trying to convince their oppobents with their reasonableness yet again in a never-ending cycle of failure. Trump knocked that idea out of the water for a lot of people, except the never-Trumpers who would rather drown with their reasonableness intact.

Blogger justaguy December 03, 2018 3:55 PM  

Great video. It says something that this distinction between rhetoric and dialectic and the many forms of rhetoric used to be taught to those who graduated high school at the turn of the 20th century, or at least covered in any liberal education. Now so few know or understand (what some old white guy 2400 years ago--no ) these basic precepts on how we understand things that they have been basically forgotten instead of something any man of education knew and used.

Blogger VD December 03, 2018 4:36 PM  

They had better wake up, or they aren't going to like where this goes.

They'd better! Or we shall warn them again! They shan't like it one bit, I say!

Blogger Student in Blue December 03, 2018 7:30 PM  

Would combining neutral-targeting rhetoric with enemy-targeting rhetoric weaken the overall effect, or would you be covering your bases? Or would it just depend?

For example, "You're nothing but a Cultural Marxist NPC, programmed to mindlessly spit out what your bitter commie professors taught you."

I'm hedging towards "it'll weaken it".

Blogger Edgar Abbey December 03, 2018 8:51 PM  

Really well done and informative Voxiversity. My only comment is that I've always thought the target audience of the "Dems are the real racists" argument was never the left but the right.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 03, 2018 9:13 PM  

> Would combining neutral-targeting rhetoric with enemy-targeting rhetoric weaken the overall effect, or would you be covering your bases? Or would it just depend?

> For example, "You're nothing but a Cultural Marxist NPC, programmed to mindlessly spit out what your bitter commie professors taught you."

> I'm hedging towards "it'll weaken it".

Well, done as in your example, yes, it weakens it. But separated as two seperate statements -- first the rhetorical, with the dialectic used as a rejoinder, then that will strengthen it.

Observe:


Sane person: You're just another NPC

NPC: No, I"m not!

Sane Person: You're just regurgitating the pre-programmed phrases that your enemies-of-the-people professors force-fed to you. And the sad part is ... you enjoy it, like some twisted globalist version the Stepford Wives.

Blogger Kerryman86 December 04, 2018 8:37 AM  

The Rhetorical/Dialectical ratio in propaganda and its convex relationship to liberty and freedom in a complex society.
In a relatively antifragile society the ratio of rhetoric to dialectic discourse in a given society remains relatively stable when said civilization's core economic applications create positive long lasting prosperity for the majority of its citizens. For the purposes of this argument let us assume that in any given political article, TV segment, or speech a healthy ratio of rhetoric to dialectic is 4 to 1, where every minute devoted to rhetoric there is one minute devoted to dialectic to satiate the intellectual as well as the average watcher or reader of said material. When the economic policies begin to undermine the social frabric of society and core economic beliefs are antithetical to economic reality but are beneficial to the established oligarch class the rhetoric/dialectic ratio skews heavier and heavier to rhetoric until finally dialectic is abandoned altogether in favor of simple repetitive Memes and slogans. Consequently this naturally alienates the intellectual and causes a negative feedback of nihilism and cynicism which gives rise to the revolutionary spirit and increases the chance of insurrection and unrest. Such societies have two choices one way is to accept change and force the oligarch to abandon hard held beliefs and sacrifice power for the benefit of society or turn to totalitarianism to maintain power and suppress rationality and accurate assessment of society. The EU and the deep state of the US have chosen the former and it is up to the true patriots to rise up and overthrow the corrupt system in order to ensure the safety and prosperity of our children's future.

Blogger Dirk Manly December 06, 2018 5:21 AM  

That would be the latter, not the former.

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