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Sunday, January 13, 2019

The Call of the World

This is what it looks like when God permits people to exercise their free will and respond to the call of the world to walk the broad and easy path to Hell.
In early January, Hoke designed a sign that read: "Bruce Jenner is still a man. Homosexuality is still a sin. The culture may change. The Bible does not."

Despite there being no outward sign of fracture within the church, on Saturday evening, Hoke published the following unexpected update on Facebook:

As of today, I am no longer the pastor of Trinity Bible Presbyterian Church. After much prayer and counsel, I have decided that it is best to briefly communicate what has taken place.

1. I was informed by our other elder that he felt he could no longer follow my lead as Pastor of TBPC. 
2. I was informed that essentially all but one couple in membership would leave the church if I continued as pastor of TBPC.
3. Our other elder and the couple felt that those who left would likely return if I would leave.
4. Our other elder was agreeable to stay and assume the pastoral responsibilities.

Therefore it was determined that it would be in the best interest of the local body for us (TBPC and the Hoke family) to part ways.
It's a pity that Pastor Hoke left the church rather than informing the other elder and all but one couple in membership that they were welcome to leave. After all, they have already abandoned both God and the Bible in order to pursue the favor of the world.

The purpose of the church is not for non-Christians to feel good about how they are not [insert anti-Narrative badthink here]. What good does it do for anyone to return to a building that is now, at best, spiritually empty? The pastor said he left "in order to keep the church intact", but that church is not merely shattered, it is dead.

Never quit. Never, ever, quit. Make them kick you out. And then, make the rubble bounce.

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66 Comments:

Blogger Meanoldbasterd January 13, 2019 8:56 PM  

1000 times yes!

Blogger Bogey January 13, 2019 9:06 PM  

Obviously not the Church of Smyrna or Philadelphia spoken of in Revelation. I would move on too.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville January 13, 2019 9:06 PM  

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Even if its just your wife and kids in the pews.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville January 13, 2019 9:08 PM  

And if I read the comments correctly he wasn't even a paid pastor. Most churches could use a good purging.

Blogger Kevin Blackwell January 13, 2019 9:10 PM  

I think the best example is how Jesus let thousands leave him over communion; only 12 stayed.

Blogger tz January 13, 2019 9:12 PM  

501c3 means they are non-Prophet.

Blogger M. Bibliophile January 13, 2019 9:18 PM  

Timely. I've just written my own essay on tolerance and why its modern incarnation is not just insufficient but evil. This case falls squarely into the toleration of evil, something we are forbidden to do and is wholly incompatibly with following after Christ. The pastor made a mistake by not making as big a stink as possible and pointing out just how wrong the congregation had gone. As it is, he should probably examine his own teachings and consider just how much he contributed to this before getting right back to proclaiming the Gospel.

Don't quit, not one step back, and like Vox says, make it bounce!

Blogger Evan Hartshorn January 13, 2019 9:21 PM  

Seminex.

When the LCMS Lutherans decided to suspend their seminary President for heresy, something like 70% of students and 90% of staff walked out in protest.

And yet that seminary still stands and the "seminary in exhile" of the SJW faculty and students had to be absorbed by an existing Social Justice Synod because despite being the majority of the seminary they couldn't hack it without the handful of orthodox Lutherans.

Blogger cyrus83 January 13, 2019 9:33 PM  

The people coming were spiritually dead beforehand if this is accurate and not just BS from the elder and couple to get rid of a pastor who gave them the vapors. Whatever gospel these people are following, it isn't the one the pastor was preaching from the pulpit on Sunday.

The pastor should have called the bluff. Even if all left but one couple, others would have been attracted to an actual display of spiritual fortitude in the face of the powers of hell. And if he was fired, I'm sure he would have found his stand rewarded with some other church calling for his services.

Blogger Phelps January 13, 2019 9:34 PM  

The Church looks like it is part of the BPC Synod. Looking over their recent Resolutions and church governance, I actually expect this entire church to be excommunicated and expelled pretty soon. I would expect no less from my own presbytery (PCA.)

Blogger Chuck January 13, 2019 9:34 PM  

I'm LCMS, but I think Luther would approve of there being an ELCA for the sake of people being able to worship in peace.

Blogger Zaklog the Great January 13, 2019 9:36 PM  

Hmmm, I wonder what happens to a church that is “spiritually empty.”

Matt. 12:43-45

Hmmm

Blogger A rebel without a General January 13, 2019 9:43 PM  

F

That preacher though right should have fought against the congregation. The church of feels does not belong anywhere on earth.

Blogger Dublet January 13, 2019 10:17 PM  

Do you attend a local church, Vox? If not, would you if the option were there?

Blogger Sterling Pilgrim January 13, 2019 10:31 PM  

Same thing happened to a church here. The pastor of many decades was pushed out for a “fresher, younger, leader and now they have a leader with an Australian accent and perfect hair. They. All themselves “Church of the City”. It’s about 25 miles south of Nashville.

Blogger Joseph Maroney January 13, 2019 10:33 PM  

Why would he want to leave an enemy stronghold intact? Does he not know he's in a war?

Blogger John January 13, 2019 10:39 PM  

@11 I'm LCMS, but I think Luther would approve of there being an ELCA for the sake of people being able to worship in peace.

Luther would say to nuke and pave ELCA for pagan apostasy. ELCA is not Christian.

Blogger John Best January 13, 2019 11:55 PM  

Could always do a Henry Sacheverell and do a sermon calling out the false brethren in front of the Lord Mayor of London, get tried by Parliament, cause the High Tory riots, get sent to prison for 3 years and go down as an absolute legend.

Blogger John Best January 14, 2019 12:00 AM  

@7 DO you have a link to your essay?

Blogger Student in Blue January 14, 2019 12:10 AM  

Yeah Luther would call for (justified) hellfire and brimstone. Not a "go along to get along" type of resolution. In no way was Luther ever that type.

Blogger Roddie Piper January 14, 2019 12:32 AM  

Never give a lump sum donation to a church; give once or twice a year instead. Then, when your church hoists the rainbow flag, you find another place to worship.

I love those dilapidated little white churches with rainbow flags, "All are welcome" signs, and empty pews. There's another place where all are welcome: Hell!

Blogger Amethyst Dominica January 14, 2019 12:33 AM  

Events like this should spark a discussion within the pews and that discussion should include terms like "8 year old drag queen dancing at a gay bar," "prolapsed anus" and liberal amounts of post-transition Chris-chan videos. Then it should end with the question: "Do you want this sort of thing in your church?"


My guess is the congregation will be like Miles Lord, a famous MN judge who was once interviewed during a news special investigating filthy song lyrics. The Hon. Mr. Lord was adamant that people like Prince had the right to sing about whatever they wanted without being censored or hauled in for obscenity. Then the reporter interviewing Mr. Lord showed him the lyrics to the Prince song, "Sister":

"I was only sixteen but I guess that's no excuse
My sister was thirty-two, lovely, and loose
She don't wear no underwear
She says it only gets in her hair
And it's got a funny way of stoppin' the juice

My sister never made love to anyone else but me
She's the reason for my, uh, sexuality
She showed me where it's supposed to go
A blowjob doesn't mean blow
Incest is everything it's said to be"

Mr. Lord's reaction indicated that he had no idea how bad song lyrics had gotten and he looked like he wanted to disappear.

Blogger liberranter January 14, 2019 12:34 AM  

Trinity Bible Presbyterian Church is the new American norm. Except for small groups that are not formally incorporated congregations (IOW, bodies closely resembling the original New Testament church), the true Christian church in this country is all but dead.

Pastor Hoke should indeed move on and try to find a church full of REAL Christians to lead. Led these churchian frauds continue on their journey to Hell without Him. May God have mercy on their souls.

Blogger NP_see January 14, 2019 12:35 AM  

My congregation has 5 regular attendees precisely because we follow the Bible's teaching and not the scripted intellect of the day.

Blogger P Glenrothes January 14, 2019 12:36 AM  

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies"

Blogger Deep Thought January 14, 2019 12:39 AM  

This is one reason Islam will win.

Reform is another word for corruption

Blogger Kiwi the Geek January 14, 2019 12:47 AM  

OT:what happened to the website Markku was building where we could find groups of believers that hold to the truth?

Blogger Jamie-R January 14, 2019 1:08 AM  

Is that from the Daily Wire? Why didn't he chuck in a defence of white nationalism too, so they'd condemn him in totality too?

Blogger SciVo January 14, 2019 3:46 AM  

You know, sometimes I think we should just get rid of the non-profit category, or else tax them like everybody else. It shouldn't bother Christians, since we are to render unto Caesar etc. Are they even a net benefit to us, or mostly just a channel for assaults on our civilization?

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 14, 2019 4:52 AM  

@27 OT:what happened to the website Markku was building where we could find groups of believers that hold to the truth?

My personal guess, the people who are mentally strong enough to leave a mainline church over heresy, are also usually individualistic enough that most regard each other as "heretics" over some doctrine or other. As simple a question as "Did Jesus Christ ever lie" can separate people.

Orthodox Christians, for instance, consider Protestants to be the same thing as Jews. Jews themselves consider Protestants to be Christians.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 14, 2019 5:11 AM  

"My personal guess, the people who are mentally strong enough to leave a mainline church over heresy, are also usually individualistic enough that most regard each other as "heretics" over some doctrine or other."

If the traditional Catholic set is any indication, yes, that can be a problem, but it's a useful way to separate out the insufferable Gammas among us.

Blogger DJT January 14, 2019 5:41 AM  

And this is why I ceased to be Protestant. Congregationalism is madness. You need a bishop with apostolic succession to be in charge as the archpastor and Shepherd and paternal figure.

Congregationalism is ultimately an effeminate way to run a church.

Blogger Lazarus January 14, 2019 5:45 AM  

More detail:

http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/news/20190107/lake-shastina-church-sign-sparks-protest

Blogger DJT January 14, 2019 5:48 AM  

It shouldn't bother Christians, since we are to render unto Caesar etc.

That line doesn't work so well in a democracy. In a monarchy the monarch is sovereign, but in a democracy the people are sovereign, and lawmakers may act illegitimately by instating taxes that the people don't want (against the sovereign will) , which would be more akin to a tax collector stealing money for himself than an autocrat putting a tax in place.

Didn't Trump run on repealing the Johnson Amendment that prevents churches from participating in politics? Has he done anything on that?

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 14, 2019 5:59 AM  

Need a way to email Owen Benjamin. He has a debate with Eric Dubay today. He can clean his clock, but very important he not try to tackle Dubay on the Geocentricity concept, but just stick to the Flat Earth concept. Dubay already agrees with Owen on the Moon Landings, but the Geocentricity is a trap if Owen hasn't looked into it yet.

Also, wierd the debate is happening now, this important website just went offline, but it is a great resource for Owen Benjamin to prep for his debate:

http://flatearthdeception.com/

Fortunately the wayback machine has a recent copy:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181210220506/http://flatearthdeception.com/

If anyone here (Vox?) knows how to reach Owen, I humbly request you pass this on to him asap. I only found out about the debate just now. Flat earthers made mincemeat of Stephan Molyneux, and it is harder to disprove than one might expect, but it is very doable.

Flat earth promoters are some of the most blatant, dishonest shills I've come across. They rely on most of their listeners not knowing simple trigonometry. I actually had a flat earth Messianic preacher say that people who use calculus are con artists and deceivers. These people are rejecting knowledge and science at a deep level.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 14, 2019 6:11 AM  

The simplest disproof of flat earth is the stars circling around both north AND south poles. I've seen a couple flat earth attempts to explain the south pole as "reflections against a dome" but it was ludicrous.

The second big weak point is their denial of airplane flights between Santiago Chile and Australia. For a long time they denied that anyone made such flights, ignoring tweets, facebook posts, and other evidence from people boarding and debarking said flights. Recently Rob Skiba made a video where he admits that the flight between Chile and Australia takes the amount of time demanded by the globe, not by the flat earth. But he said they'd find an explanation someday. And the title of the video itself would lead anyone to believe that they had "solved the problem", when all Rob Skiba does is admit the problem exists! I find this often in the Flat Earth community.

Also as good prep, the debate (now on youtube) between Rob Skiba and Robert Sungenis.

Blogger Duke Nukem January 14, 2019 7:26 AM  

This is why I like Steven Anderson's unapologetic sermons. People have called him a "hate preacher" and he gladly accepts the title.

Blogger camcleat January 14, 2019 7:37 AM  

@17

Agree wholeheartedly. We attend an ELCA "church" and it is simply shocking the Heresies repeated there. The one we attend is truly a "worship of self" self aggrandizement-make me feel happy cult.

One reason we continue to attend is that it gives us good opportunities to discuss, as a family, the Biblical truths they ignore.

Associated with something my son was studying in regard to the early church and "What is Heresy," we played a family game. I wrote down 15 statements that are often heard/repeated in general and some specifically in our congregation. As I read each one, the others scored it Heresy or Truth. At the end, we went to the beginning, heard what each scored, then discussed why, Biblically, it was H or T.

It was a very good exercise for every one of us. We all had some surprises we had to admit. There were some uncomfortable truths at times as well.

The ELCA is trash. For a while I was getting their "The Lutheran" magazine and it was frankly retch-inducing postmodernist anti-Christian tripe.

Blogger Cinco January 14, 2019 8:15 AM  

“This is one reason Islam will win.”

-Faithless

The New Testament has an ending, and it doesn’t include Mohammed...

Blogger The Cooler January 14, 2019 8:22 AM  

Psychologically related: DNA pioneer James Watson has final honors stripped because rayciss: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/james-watson-racism-honours-dna-double-helix-cold-spring-harbor-laboratory-a8724896.html

Blogger VD January 14, 2019 8:31 AM  

Need a way to email Owen Benjamin. He has a debate with Eric Dubay today. He can clean his clock, but very important he not try to tackle Dubay on the Geocentricity concept, but just stick to the Flat Earth concept. Dubay already agrees with Owen on the Moon Landings, but the Geocentricity is a trap if Owen hasn't looked into it yet.

It's not your debate. Stay out of it.

Blogger Nate January 14, 2019 8:43 AM  

"It's not your debate. Stay out of it."

This. Always this.

Blogger Nate January 14, 2019 8:46 AM  

imagine saying "hey... does anyone have the number for the New England Patriots coaching staff? I have some really important analysis that they need for this game against KC. See turns out Andy Reid is really bad at clock management and they really need to get him into situations where that matters."

Blogger Nate January 14, 2019 8:48 AM  

one last thing...

Isn't Owen a professional comedian? How stupid do you have to be to publicly debate a professional comedian?

Blogger Avalanche January 14, 2019 9:06 AM  

@33 "More detail:
http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/news/20190107/lake-shastina-church-sign-sparks-protest"

Dja notice that the actual "offending" sign is NOT made clear? Does everyone ids Siskiyou already know what the sign said? Pretty weak reporting!

Blogger Avalanche January 14, 2019 9:13 AM  

@36 "The second big weak point is their denial of airplane flights between Santiago Chile and Australia."

(OT answer....)
This was one of the first and easiest bits of idiocy I ran across when I looked over the Flat Earth ideas. Flat earthers rant and rail about how -- instead of flying "direct" from Rio de Janeiro to J-burg, South Africa across the ocean -- the planes go via LONDON! Proof it's a straight line across a flat-plane earth!!

Uh, no: it's proof that the airlines are capitalist pigs who need sufficient passengers paying fares to make it even slightly profitable to fly between those two cities... Both the Rio-to-London folks, and the London-to-SAfrica put their pennies in the bucket to pay for all that fuel, eh? Sheesh!

Blogger Avalanche January 14, 2019 9:19 AM  

@38 "heir "The Lutheran" magazine and it was frankly retch-inducing postmodernist anti-Christian tripe."

This reminds me, and as Vox's Mezi (Mesi? couldn't be Mezzi cause that'd be pronounced Metzi? Sorry, bit of morning sperging...) has been on my mind, a couple years ago I picked up a copy of the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, for you non-Americans) at the recycler. I don't give them money -- I give money to the outfits that rescue pets in disasters, cause the big 'rescue humans' outfits refuse to.

So, the ASPCA. Prevention of animal *cruelty*. And here's an article pictures and recipes -- about turning your dog VEGETARIAN!!! Gasp!

Blogger Latigo3 January 14, 2019 9:31 AM  

Yeah, I read that article somewhere online when it first came out. "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world."

Blogger Alphaeus January 14, 2019 9:50 AM  

The world is free to believe whatever nonsense they want about sodomy and all the rest of the perversion and lewdness and any and all manner of spiritual pathology.

My "Church," not so much.

What's troubling is that the pastor in question seemed to have no idea that his flock were more like wolves than sheep. At least now he knows.

VD thinks he should have stayed and made everyone else leave, which would have been much more interesting. But if he was my friend I would probably just say, "Forget it, Pastor, it's California-town."

Blogger elad sputnik January 14, 2019 9:51 AM  

Avalanche wrote:This was one of the first and easiest bits of idiocy I ran across when I looked over the Flat Earth ideas.

Took all of ten seconds: https://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/


Blogger M. Bibliophile January 14, 2019 10:19 AM  

@19 John Best wrote:DO you have a link to your essay?

No, or at least not yet. It was just a throwaway piece of writing practice, but essay sounds a lot better than "fake practice blog." My reference to it was more on how this dovetails with stuff I've been thinking about than anything else.

The gist of it is that "tolerance" is either evil because it asks us to tolerate evil or evil because it replaces God's commandment that we love one another, especially our brothers in Christ, for watered down pap that does not seek anyone's correction or salvation. "Tolerance" is the love child of Nietzsche and Crowley: let everyone do as they wilt so that you may do the same until such time as you are obviously superior, at which point you may disregard them.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz January 14, 2019 10:33 AM  

Doesn't this old fool understand that it is the congregation's job to teach the pastor what is right and moral? That the reason we go to church is to keep the clergy honest and tell him or Xir what's right and good?

Blogger Lance E January 14, 2019 10:49 AM  

Normally I would assume that the "all but one couple would leave" part was just a blatant lie. But this happened in California, so who knows.

Still wouldn't surprise me if those threats to leave were all part of a coordinated campaign by the other pastor and/or some SJW members inflating their numbers.

Blogger James Dixon January 14, 2019 12:14 PM  

> So, the ASPCA. Prevention of animal *cruelty*. And here's an article pictures and recipes -- about turning your dog VEGETARIAN!!! Gasp!

When the ASPCA starts complaining about cops shooting dogs I'll start considering them worth attention.

Blogger Random #57 January 14, 2019 1:58 PM  

@40 The Cooler:

Psychologically related: DNA pioneer James Watson has final honors stripped because rayciss: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/james-watson-racism-honours-dna-double-helix-cold-spring-harbor-laboratory-a8724896.html

They're never strip away his Nobel award, or the fact that he and Crick figured out the structure of DNA in part using Saint Rosalind's data, which she by definition had but couldn't figure out.

I wonder if universities will stop using his Molecular Biology of the Gene.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 14, 2019 2:32 PM  

elad sputnik wrote:
Took all of ten seconds: https://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/


To an ordinary person, that is a good rebuttal. Flat earthers are pretty locked in to their delusion. They make claims like "oh, someone on the forum tried to book a flight using that, and didn't succeed, therefore it is fake."

They also selectively accept or reject the science of optics. The earth looks curved out of an airplane window because the windows are curved, they say. No explanation why the horizon doesn't look curved while the plane is on the ground.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 14, 2019 2:48 PM  

@21

"Never give a lump sum donation to a church; give once or twice a year instead. Then, when your church hoists the rainbow flag, you find another place to worship."

Monthly, or weekly.

That serves as notice that evaluation is constant. Donate by check, so that it's personally tied to your name.

And if you're donating by check, if your checks suddenly stop, that gives immediate notice that they have turned the wrong way. If they keep records, which most do, they'll be sure to come to you to ask WHY you have stopped donating. Then you give full reasoning. At that point, they can either come around to keeping consistent with the Bible, or not. You can then act accordingly.

Blogger Tars Tarkusz January 14, 2019 3:03 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:And if you're donating by check, if your checks suddenly stop, that gives immediate notice that they have turned the wrong way.

This is fundamentally backwards. You are supposed to look to church leaders for leadership and counseling on matters of religion.

Unfortunately, in the modern world everything is backwards. This is why churchianity is so evil. Once you start controlling the church with donations, you start worshiping yourself. After all, what did Jesus know about 2019?

Who in the world goes to church to hear progressive dogma? You can hear that in spades on TV or listening to a politician, a musician or anyone really. They are supposed be teaching you the straight and narrow, not the wide and easy path.

Blogger liberranter January 14, 2019 3:31 PM  

Who in the world goes to church to hear progressive dogma? You can hear that in spades on TV or listening to a politician, a musician or anyone really. They are supposed be teaching you the straight and narrow, not the wide and easy path.

Most of the world wants "Christian" sanctification of its worldly, sinful deeds. 'cause "feelings." And 'cause living IAW Scripture is just too hard.

Blogger Mr Darcy January 14, 2019 3:31 PM  

@17:

Right you are. I had to go out from the ELCA myself. ANd it's gotten worse since then, although I didn't see at the time how it could.

Blogger Mr Darcy January 14, 2019 3:37 PM  

@29:

No. Because "The power to tax is the power to destroy."

Blogger Dirk Manly January 14, 2019 4:07 PM  

@58

"Who in the world goes to church to hear progressive dogma? You can hear that in spades on TV or listening to a politician, a musician or anyone really. They are supposed be teaching you the straight and narrow, not the wide and easy path."

If my church decides that they don't like the straight and narrow path because some evil person somehow convinces the elders that the wide and easy way should replace the current doctrine, then, it's not self-worship when I withhold my funds and go elsewhere.

Blogger Vaughan Williams January 14, 2019 4:20 PM  

It is possible the pastor resigned because he was shown that he was in violation of the church (501c3) bylaws and constitution.

Blogger P Glenrothes January 14, 2019 7:12 PM  

"Heads up gentlemen. There's another wave of koobs coming in. K.T.F." - Pappy

Blogger Kiwi the Geek January 14, 2019 7:26 PM  

"My personal guess, the people who are mentally strong enough to leave a mainline church over heresy, are also usually individualistic enough that most regard each other as "heretics" over some doctrine or other. As simple a question as "Did Jesus Christ ever lie" can separate people."

If we can't agree on the fundamentals and avoid bickering over the non essentials, clearly we are not reflecting Christ and need to suffer and be refined into a worthy bride.

Blogger eclecticme January 15, 2019 10:57 AM  


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/progressive_indoctrination_in_church_.html
I became aware that the "Head Start" program for preschool children is not simply preparation for elementary school work when this federally funded program trickled into a church in Maine during Sunday School. ....

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