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Wednesday, February 20, 2019

The importance of morale

It would be unwise to count out the Catalonian bid for independence yet. They have a long history of being tenacious in defeat. From A History of the Peninsular War:
Thus six months had elapsed between the fall of Lerida and the commencement of the next stage of the French advance in Eastern Spain. If it is asked why the delay was so long, the answer is easy: it was due not, as some have maintained, to Suchet’s slowness or to Macdonald’s caution, but solely to the splendid activity displayed by Henry O’Donnell, a general often beaten but never dismayed, and to the tenacity of the Catalans, who never gave up hope, and were still to hold their own, after a hundred disasters, till the tide of success in the Peninsula at last turned back in 1812-13. 
And clearly Henry O'Donnell was no gamma. Failure is never to be feared. It may be disappointing, but it should be viewed as nothing more than a stepping stone - and sometimes a necessary one - to ultimate success.

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47 Comments:

Blogger Longtime Lurker February 20, 2019 9:02 AM  

Amen.

Blogger Matt Robison February 20, 2019 9:25 AM  

OT: Many thanks for your recommendation of A History of Venice. Norwich is enlightening and entertaining.

Blogger McChuck February 20, 2019 9:39 AM  

Grant ordered the Army of the Potomac forward. They lost battle after battle, and the order the following day was always, "Forward!"

And thus they won the war.

Blogger Chad Thundercockovich February 20, 2019 9:48 AM  

I took Spanish language classes in Barcelona and was somewhat shocked by how one of our teachers made sure to lecture us about how Catalonia SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT.

Blogger Chent February 20, 2019 9:55 AM  

As a Spaniard with Catalan language as mother tongue, let me give my 5 cents.

The battle you mention was before Catalan nationalism and Catalonian people fought for Spain. But people were more fierce back them (not only Catalonians but all people).

Now that more than a year has passed after the Catalan attempt for independence, some things are clear. Newspapers have been publishing information about those tense days.

In short, it was a bluff. It was an attempt for the Spanish government to negotiate. The independence was declared without any plan to implement it, let alone the control of the territory. The Spanish government called the bluff. Then, the independentist leaders fled from Spain or were put into jail. The trial is taken place right now.

I underestimated the softness of the independentist people. They sure want the independence of Catalonia but without sacrificing or risking anything. Their concept of "fighting for the independence" is protesting, demonstrating, complaining, whining, making performances. Anything that has no cost and no risk to them.

After the leaders were put to jail (they didn't imagine that back then), the new leaders have a violent rhetoric against Spain but they are very careful in not breaking any Spanish law. This is why the movement is doomed to failure. You cannot obtain independence only by protesting, whining and complaining.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 20, 2019 10:09 AM  

Only successful attempt to Catalan independence was in the 1640s. Catalonia ended ruled by the Absolutist French Bourbon king, and Catalans found they were happier in Spain.

The price of that education were the two northernmost Catalan counties.

Blogger John Best February 20, 2019 10:10 AM  

Losing a battle is less important than having the will to stand on the field of battle 50 times.

Blogger Glaivester February 20, 2019 10:23 AM  

I think Catalonian independence may provoke more Spanish nationalism, so if Catalonia brings Vox (the party, not our gracious host or the left-wing media site) into the 20% range, it's all good.

Blogger Chent February 20, 2019 10:34 AM  

Former councilor Clara Ponsatí (member of the Catalan government that declared the independence) claimed :" We were playing poker and bluffing".

https://voicesfromspain.com/2018/06/23/what-a-bluff-reveals/

Artur Mas (the Catalan president that started the independence process) admitted that the process was a deception.

https://www.elplural.com/autonomias/cataluna/artur-mas-reconoce-que-el-1-o-fue-un-engano_120176102

Blogger D Zniger February 20, 2019 10:34 AM  

VD, you mentioned Scotland in one of the last Darkstreams, and the same is valid for Catalonia as for Scotland: too many foreigners with voting rights. So I guess that freedom is only possible in some kind of armed conflict. We have so many nations without a state in Europe, that such a conflict looks like their last hope before they take their last breath. Cannot imagine that for example Corsica survives or keeps their chance for independence for longer than a generation.Without an armed conflict and a wave of change there will be only the fate of the Indians with some kind of ethnic reservations for these nations left.
I appreciate your positive outlook on birth rates, it gives me hope that things can change quickly. I´m ready to send all invaders home and get the reconquista started. As Stefan Molyneux stated: white men are friendly, until they are not. I will still be friendly to say goodbye to all the Mohammeds when they will board their flights home. Alas it seems that I will have to wait a few more years for my fellow Europeans to change their minds.
Both places, Scotland and Catalonia, have also the prevalence of socialism and SJWs in common. Let´s count every Muslim with broken knowledge of catalan into our nation.... I would love to see an independent Scotland and Catalonia, but at the same time I despise their SJW way of life. I also guess that they would receive less media coverage, if they would lean more to the right. Waving a flag of Catalonia is noticeable on the left.

Blogger Sillon Bono February 20, 2019 10:48 AM  

@Vox

Your understanding of what is going on in Spain is still very low. Spain is not anglo, anglo perceptions don't apply/work in Spain.

Those cosmopolitan friends you have in Barcelona understand propaganda very well, but that's about it.

@8_Glaivester

Correct.

Blogger Nate73 February 20, 2019 11:01 AM  

I started reading the autobiography of GLR and the first thought that came to me is that this guy is a gamma!

1) He talked about a time in school where he was going to be initiated by the freshmen throwing him in the ocean or something. And they told him there's no use fighting it, and that just makes him want to fight more, so he bit and kicked and game em hell before he was left exhausted and beaten on the beach. Then the next day he got into a fist fight and then ran home crying. Therefore he says he is motivated into a frenzy of hate against a group of people bullying the weak for sheer pleasure.

2) He brags about doing the "impossible" in math class, like proving that ASA triangle congruence isn't true.

3) He was never interested in "the pickup" or the "easy" women, just in the exceptional ones.

Gamma verdict: Positive.

Blogger VD February 20, 2019 12:16 PM  

Your understanding of what is going on in Spain is still very low. Spain is not anglo, anglo perceptions don't apply/work in Spain.

The observed Catalan persistence is more than 200 years old. The fact that Spanish imperialists want to keep the Catalan nation in their empire is hardly surprising, just as Napoleon wanted to keep Spain in his. If the Catalans want to be independent, eventually they will be, although their current leadership set is apparently as dumb as that of the Irish and Scottish leaderships.

"We want to be free to join the EU!"

Blogger David. D February 20, 2019 12:20 PM  

Catalan separatists are the weakest, softest and most effiminate people Ive ever met. Cataluña has always been a part of Spain, it is compeltely ahistorical to say the opposite. Spain is one of the oldests countries in Europe, and one of the greatest countries to ever exist. We have a great culture(hispanidad) much more sólid than the anglos/protestants. If you think we are gonna break the integrity of our nation because of a bunch of catalan separatist cowards,you are sadly mistaken. The nation of Blas de Lezo or Isabel la Catolica has history on its side. Viva España!

Blogger John Best February 20, 2019 12:28 PM  

@10 The Scottish nation was crushed in the Jacobite Rising by the English and Covenanters were crushed by Cromwell. So the Scottish nation would need to understand the difficulty of an armed conflict and understand there are other ways to go things. The British state has gone the correct thing by giving Scotland everything it asked for, but actual nation independence. It was very successful in preventing any Scottish nationalist conflict. Personally I believe the Scottish national institutions will be restored the Church of Scotland, the Parliament of Scotland and the King of Scotland, within the realm of Britain. The ties between Northern England and Scotland are too great now for there to be an antagonistic nation policy in Scotland and England.

Blogger Rhology February 20, 2019 12:31 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Chent February 20, 2019 12:38 PM  

Catalonia is not a nation. It has never been independent, unlike Scotland. When I say "never", I mean "never". Not in Roman times, not in the Middle Ages, not before Spain was born, not after Spain was born, never.

Yes, they speak Spanish and Catalan. About 35% of Catalans have Catalan as mother tongue and about 50% of Catalans have Spanish as mother tongue, although all Catalans know how to speak Spanish.

However, there are 6000 languages in the world and only less than 250 countries. And Catalan is also spoken outside Catalonia.

The independentist movement is full SJW. You know: they love Muslim immigration and political correctness. They love globalism and the European Union. They think that Catalan people are more European and progressive than Spanish people, which they consider backward people, Catholic and not progressive enough.

Blogger Chent February 20, 2019 1:46 PM  

Breaking news. Right now, former councilor Dolors Bassa admits that it was a bluff. https://politica.e-noticies.es/iban-de-farol-122599.html

Blogger Iron Spartan February 20, 2019 2:06 PM  

An enemy is not beaten until THEY believe they are beaten. History is full of examples of this, with the resurgence of Communism being the most recent example.

Blogger Dominik K. February 20, 2019 2:08 PM  

@10 John Best
As an English man I would be pissed with such an outcome. Everything extra for the Scots and nothing for England.

Blogger Dominik K. February 20, 2019 2:13 PM  

@Chent
Slovenia and Slovakia were also never independent and look now. They have their own language and the culture will be also different than in other parts of Spain...even when it is only a little bit different. It is enough to have the urge to get their own country. The fact that they are awful socialists and have one more difference to the rest of Spain, speaks also for their independence.

Blogger John Best February 20, 2019 2:24 PM  

@20 England gets Scotland not allying with the French all the time. What I am talking about is an economically independent Scotland, with its own taxation and government spending. They get nothing from England.

Blogger VD February 20, 2019 2:27 PM  

The independentist movement is full SJW. You know: they love Muslim immigration and political correctness. They love globalism and the European Union. They think that Catalan people are more European and progressive than Spanish people, which they consider backward people, Catholic and not progressive enough.

Why on Earth are you so desperate to keep a people you despise and with whom you clearly disagree trapped in a political union with you? Why do you not want to let them go their own way?

I would be delighted to see New York City and all of California secede from the United States.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 20, 2019 3:04 PM  

Majority of Catalans, according to voting in elections, do not want to secede from Spain.

Blogger John Best February 20, 2019 3:14 PM  

@24 It doesn't change the fact the Catalonia is a nation, the Basque country is a nation and Galicia is a nation. The truth is Spain is a state forcing itself on multiple nations. Its the same in France, Germany, Italy, Britain, Belgium. It is these states that the globalists work from to destroy nations.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 20, 2019 3:19 PM  

@25 Those are not facts, but opinions.

Blogger Hammerli280 February 20, 2019 4:34 PM  

Pro tip, kids: Study a nation's history. Events of centuries past offer insight into just how they view the world. I had a course on Russian history that ended with Catherine the Great...and it was shocking how much of Soviet policy could be traced to the 1700s or earlier.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 20, 2019 5:19 PM  

David. D wrote:If you think we are gonna break the integrity of our nation because of a bunch of catalan separatist cowards,you are sadly mistaken.
If you hate them so, why do you demand their political union? It's always the same with the Spanish Imperialists, "They're awful terrible people who don't deserve to get rid of us." Or do you simply view their land, labor and nation as yours, to be exploited as you wish?
"I'll never give that ugly grasping whore a divorce."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 20, 2019 5:22 PM  

NobobyExpects wrote:@25 Those are not facts, but opinions.
Everything John Best stated is a plain, simple obvious fact. Denying that Spain (or France, Russia, Belgium or the UK) is an Empire is ludicrous. Each of them demonstrably is.
That you do not wish to see yourself as an Imperialist doesn't matter.

Blogger xavier February 20, 2019 6:59 PM  

Spanish nationalismhas already woken up. It's also quite vocal.

xavier

Blogger xavier February 20, 2019 7:04 PM  

No it wasn't. It was an independent kingdom during the medieval period and went abroad to the Mediterreanean. It wasn't that much involved in Castalian wars.
And until Felipe II came along with his centralist obsessions, the Catalans went their own way.

The problem is that the cousins have never ever understood the Catalans nor their distinct political evolution.

Spain should've always been a very big Switzerland and not absolutist France

Blogger xavier February 20, 2019 7:11 PM  

Yes it is. And your absymsl ignorance of history disqualifies you.
Everyone in the medieval times recognized Catalans as distinct from the Castillians and French.
If Catalunya was never a nation then explain the Decreto de la nueva planta which wiped out the distinct Catalan political institution and Carlos III's prohibiting public expressions of Catalan. Or the deliberate internal immigration to swamp Catalans and turn them into a minority in their own lands

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira February 20, 2019 11:42 PM  

Speaking as a half Pork-chop, so long as they participate in Reconquista 2.0 they can do whatever the Hell they want.

Blogger Mar Go February 21, 2019 2:03 AM  

The Catalonia/Spain fiasco always makes me think of the Quebec/Canada situation. When the second referendum happened the majority of anglophones were against Quebec leaving. Now Quebec is literally being paid to stay in Canada via equalization payments(over 10 billion IIRC) and anglophones are angry. To make it worse, once that free cash dries up and ethnic tensions rise, the separatism movement will come back.
Only difference is that the Quebecois are more right wing regarding immigration/ethnic issues compared to the majority of Canadians. Still, if theoretically Catalans were given independence, this doesn't mean that they would stay leftist forever.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 5:30 AM  

@29 What are the traits that identify an empire nowadays?

Because calling Belgium an Empire could only be understood as an attempt to tell a bad joke.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 5:43 AM  

@32 The political entity during most of the Middle Ages was the Crown of Aragon. Within it, there were several kingdoms, like Aragon, Valencia, Majorca, or Sicily. Formally, Catalonia was no kingdom but a princedom. Even the four red bars on a golden field were known as the "bars of Aragon" in medieval times.

Saying anything else, like that monstrosity of a "Catalan-Aragonese Crown" is a historical aberration.

Also, there were several "Decretos de Nueva Planta", not only the Catalan one.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 6:01 AM  

@36 Moreover, one could have a look to an English translation of an original source, the Chronicle of Ramon Muntaner. Chapter 29 and ss. are enlightening.

https://books.google.es/books?id=bAgkDwAAQBAJ&

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 6:36 AM  

@31 Did you mean the Reconquista when you wrote of "Castalian wars"?

Because, for example, Peter II of Aragon did participate in that most important battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212, alongside the other Spanish kings of Castile, and Navarre.

Blogger David. D February 21, 2019 8:32 AM  

With all due respect you are wrong from the beginning. Cataluña is not a nation, its a región of Spain. They are not a "people", they have the same spanish blood and the same history as me. We have built Spain since centuries and centuries ago, we have the same shared history. Your conception of what constitutes a nation is ridicoulos, by the same token any community could become a nation, no matter how big or small. The reality is that the separatist movement was implimented less than 50 years, by a group of corrupt políticans in Cataluña who used the separatist message as a divide and conquer strategy to hide their corruption. The "imperialist Spain"thing you said is stupid, how the hell a country who defends its own terittory ,roots and soveiragnity is imperialist

Blogger Original H February 21, 2019 12:10 PM  

Not that dialectic will do any good, but:

Chent wrote:Catalonia is not a nation. It has never been independent, unlike Scotland.

Clearly you don't understand the difference between a nation and a state. A nation is a group of people with traits and culture in common that see themselves as different from surrounding people groups. A state is a political entity, the physical borders of which may or may not line up with the borders of the nation.

all Catalans know how to speak Spanish.

For some degree of "know." By that definition, all Europeans speak English. I spent 6 months living in a rural catalan village. I, being a northern European foreigner, speak better Castilian than most the people in the village.

The independentist movement is full SJW. You know: they love Muslim immigration and political correctness. They love globalism and the European Union. They think that Catalan people are more European and progressive than Spanish people, which they consider backward people, Catholic and not progressive enough.

Generally true, but irrelevant to the discussion.

David. D wrote:With all due respect you are wrong from the beginning. Cataluña is not a nation, its a región of Spain. They are not a "people", they have the same spanish blood and the same history as me.

Wrong. Catalans are clearly different from Castillians. They are generally quite a bit shorter. Their facial structures are rounder. Their skin is paler. They look about as different from Castilians as Russians look different from the English. They have their own appearance, language, and culture.

Blogger David. D February 21, 2019 12:21 PM  

Thats total bullshit. Have you ever met a catalan ffs? The most common lastname in Cataluña is Garcia. The most common last name in Madrid is Garcia. The most common last name in Granada is Garcia. You are just making stuff up in your imagination.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 21, 2019 1:00 PM  

NobobyExpects wrote:@29 What are the traits that identify an empire nowadays?

Because calling Belgium an Empire could only be understood as an attempt to tell a bad joke.

An Empire is when one people rule over another people, as the Waloons rule over the Vlaams by force or arms. Granted, losing their enormous African holdings has left only a small empire, but empire it is.

David. D wrote:The most common last name in Madrid is Garcia. The most common last name in Granada is Garcia.
The most common Black name in America is Johnson. This has literally nothing to do with the matter, particularly when your empire has a policy,as the USSR did, of flooding your nation with Imperial clients.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 1:20 PM  

@42 Considering that in the modern world there is no country where there is no people ruling over another people, all countries are empires.

Next tautology, please.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 21, 2019 2:17 PM  

NobobyExpects wrote:all countries are empires.
You noticing it doesn't make it false.

Blogger NobobyExpects February 21, 2019 2:40 PM  

But it makes your reasoning of @42 somewhat unsustainable.

Blogger Original H February 21, 2019 5:26 PM  

David. D wrote:Thats total bullshit. Have you ever met a catalan ffs? The most common lastname in Cataluña is Garcia. The most common last name in Madrid is Garcia. The most common last name in Granada is Garcia. You are just making stuff up in your imagination.

Reading comprehension matters...

As Snidely noted, the number of Garcias in Catalonian territory is completely irrelevant.

I have a Garcia brother-in-law in Barcelona. He is decidedly not Catalan, even though he was born in Barcelona. I know lots of Garcias in Barcelona. Not one of them is Catalan.

In the rural nearly 100% Catalan villages where I spent most of my 6 months in Catalonia, there were no Garcias.

Blogger Galahad78 February 22, 2019 5:30 AM  

When you speak about Catalans wanting independence, are you counting the majority of Catalans who do not want it?

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