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Tuesday, April 23, 2019

Peterson-Zizek: the verdict

I thought a few of these comments concerning the recent Peterson-Zizek debate were informative:

Peterson got ass raped on every argument vector he tried to use. It's like a 110 IQ was trying to take it against a 150 IQ.

I know nothing about Zizek, but you may recall that I eventually concluded Peterson tops out around 120. But you can probably imagine how well a debate with me would go.

How are debates won? Does the person that doesn't have a comeback during it lose it even thought he was right? Is it all about talking to yourself in your room for week thinking "I should've said that when he said that!"

Can you spell Gamma?

Peterson failed at the very first step: literature research. I mean, why am I even surprised? I don't know.

Of course he sabotaged himself. That's what Gammas who fear defeat do in order to give themselves an excuse. They weren't really trying, you see.

I'm watching it right now. 30 minutes in and it is as if Peterson is a freshman in Physics who tried to read Griffiths to then go on and debate a Professor on the subject. It's ridiculous that he would think that even appropriate. But I guess that is what happens when you have so little respect for the subject. He should maybe question his own behavior. Why does he think he can take on an expert in a field where he is a layman? Instead he is trying and failing to lecture us on the behavior of people that he does not know about because he never bothered to acquiesce himself with them.

Hey, it worked for him in his Bible lectures. The difference is that he was addressing people who didn't know anything about it either and they weren't given the opportunity to talk back.

Also a very funny thing happened when Jordan Peterson said that Marx was not making a simple argument, but his manifesto was a call to a 'bloody, violent, revolution'... hundreds of leftists in the audience started cheering and clapping. Peterson was shocked, not used to this kind of reaction, he went quiet for a few seconds then went like... uhhh? ok?...

If Peterson wasn't a leftist himself, he would have understood this as a genuinely pathological example of group identity. How very strange that, for once, he did not call it out and criticize it.

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34 Comments:

Blogger john darson April 23, 2019 5:41 AM  

Peterson seems like one of the types whose irrational trust in the relevancy of his own academic degrees may have led him to become ignorant while believing the opposite.

Blogger Harambe April 23, 2019 6:11 AM  

Isn't this guy's whole schtick about trying to become the next prime minister of Canada?

Blogger Mark Stoval April 23, 2019 6:40 AM  

"Peterson failed at the very first step: literature research."

IQ helps of course, but having the research and preparation for a debate trumps all. Peterson never does any preparation according to the accounts I read here.

Peterson wants to rely on bullshit rather than real information and preparation. He is a fraud.

Blogger Michael D. April 23, 2019 7:19 AM  

I still cannot get over his (assumed?) ignorance about Marxism. This guy spent a good portion of his life as a socialist, and had his home filled with paintings of Lenin & co.

Blogger SciVo April 23, 2019 7:33 AM  

Hey man, I forget exactly how far ahead of the curve you were, but I think you are entitled to a victory lap. Everyone (except apparently Jordan) sees now that the so-called "antifa" are -- and always have been -- nothing but commie street thugs.

It takes an aggressively ignorant weirdo to be surprised that they're enthusiastic about "bloody, violent, revolution." That's the point.

Blogger SciVo April 23, 2019 7:38 AM  

Michael D. wrote:I still cannot get over his (assumed?) ignorance about Marxism.

The West's ruling class is the worst ever. Lazy, delusional and dishonest. And I bet they think that the number of hours they spend being stupid disproves it.

Blogger PJW Gent April 23, 2019 7:43 AM  

Michael D. wrote:I still cannot get over his (assumed?) ignorance about Marxism. This guy spent a good portion of his life as a socialist, and had his home filled with paintings of Lenin & co.
Romantic acceptance of an emotionally supported pseudo-ideal cannot deal with the cold logic of facts that run counter to everything the heart has latched onto.

Blogger Zwiebel April 23, 2019 8:03 AM  

It's not like Zizek is smart, either. He regularly writes opinion pieces for German newspapers, they're a complete facepalm fest.

Blogger Nate Winchester April 23, 2019 8:08 AM  

None?
https://youtu.be/MT82V08nM1A

Blogger Reprehensible Bear April 23, 2019 8:38 AM  

Jordan B Peterson masturbates too much

Blogger Nate April 23, 2019 8:40 AM  

sounded more like a circle jerk than a debate.

Blogger peacefulposter April 23, 2019 8:50 AM  

Who paid the exorbitant ticket prices for the commie street thugs to attend?

Blogger Johnny April 23, 2019 8:54 AM  

More ill informed that stupid, I would say. He just doesn't know his stuff.

Peterson's strengths are becoming more interesting to me than his weaknesses. He seems to have no special knowledge in any particular area, and yet has attracted a following. A guru of sorts, meaning a person who has a following only by being unusual and presuming to have some sort of special knowledge.

Blogger nbfdmd April 23, 2019 9:06 AM  

@4: He's just the typical Boomer socialist -- he likes the "idea" of socialism, which is of course totally surface level thinking. This doesn't require him to actually read Marx. All he needs to know is that socialism/Marxism is about protecting workers from exploitation or something.

By the way, off topic, but could someone please show me where I could find the codes used to do quoting and/or bold text on this blog? Thanks in advance.

Blogger Sargent.matrim April 23, 2019 9:20 AM  

I couldn't imagine going into a debate unprepared. That would be terrifying. Crazy that someone would try that.

Blogger xevious2030 April 23, 2019 9:47 AM  

“Peterson was shocked, not used to this kind of reaction, he went quiet for a few seconds then went like... uhhh? ok?...”

I don’t have the exact times, but the impression at the time was, 2 1/2 seconds actual shock/surprise, 1/4 second to regain composure, 3 seconds to ham it up to set up the disarm, and a “ok, whatever, fine, you go with your bad self” shrug to disarm and regain control, followed by the laughter (to slapstick) of unruly students returning control they had already been set up to lose in the hamming up. Seen that routine a number of times from professors, to continue the in class lecture analogy.

Blogger Alphaeus April 23, 2019 10:14 AM  

"Also a very funny thing happened when Jordan Peterson said that Marx was not making a simple argument, but his manifesto was a call to a 'bloody, violent, revolution'... hundreds of leftists in the audience started cheering and clapping. Peterson was shocked, not used to this kind of reaction, he went quiet for a few seconds then went like... uhhh? ok?..."

A true Leftist knows it's not about ideas. Just as any True Scotsman knows it's all about the Scotch, a True Leftist knows it's about the expropriation and the murder and destroying souls and dragging the whole world down to hell. So, what I'm saying is, perhaps JBP is not a True Leftist but is only one of the useful idiots.

Blogger Quilp April 23, 2019 10:14 AM  

Never really thought of Roger Scruton as a Dark Lord before, perhaps it is time.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/clown-prince-revolution-14632.html

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia April 23, 2019 10:57 AM  

Quilp wrote:Never really thought of Roger Scruton as a Dark Lord before, perhaps it is time.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/clown-prince-revolution-14632.html


Thanks for that, a great takedown of Zizek's poisonous mind.

Sounds like Peterson should have read Scruton before going into this debate, but that would have required REAL intellectual effort.

I think, though not sure, that Scruton has been accused of being a cuck.

Well, even if, he is a very smart cuck.

Blogger Nate April 23, 2019 11:01 AM  

"I couldn't imagine going into a debate unprepared. That would be terrifying. Crazy that someone would try that. "

this is actually evidence that Peterson does have an IQ on the plus side of 120. Smart people often go into things over confident.

Blogger wahr01 April 23, 2019 11:04 AM  

@19

Or simply "adult ADD"
lack of preparation and failure to do basic administrative tasks are a common symptom.

Blogger Garuna April 23, 2019 11:34 AM  

this is actually evidence that Peterson does have an IQ on the plus side of 120. Smart people often go into things over confident.

I dunno. I've seen people with sub-80 IQ buying into their own hype.

Blogger Fuzzums Wuzzums April 23, 2019 12:02 PM  

Sargent.matrim wrote:I couldn't imagine going into a debate unprepared. That would be terrifying. Crazy that someone would try that.

Jay Dyer does and he wins them. He listens to what his opponent has to say, extracts a primary principle, then uses it in an example that goes against the person's belief. His opponent is backed into admitting they were wrong about something or have to argue against their own logic at which point they either sperg out or cut the conversation short or both.

Blogger PJW Gent April 23, 2019 12:03 PM  

Quilp wrote:Never really thought of Roger Scruton as a Dark Lord before, perhaps it is time.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/clown-prince-revolution-14632.html

That certainly explains a lot about where the world inhabited by the left seems to be going. For me, this was an important takeaway. "For what matters is what people say, not what they do, and what they say is redeemed by their theories, however stupidly or carelessly pursued, and with whatever disregard for real people. We rescue the virtual from the actual through our words, and the deeds have nothing to do with it.
Talk about a final rationalization for any evil...

Blogger Lance E April 23, 2019 12:11 PM  

It's almost as if Peterson is merely a foil for the left, and was always intended to win against their popular idiots while losing to their academics.

With Peterson, it's hard to tell the difference between deliberate vs. accidental sabotage.

Blogger Iron Spartan April 23, 2019 12:20 PM  

If you have never been challenged, why would you think you need to prepare?

Blogger GAHCindy April 23, 2019 2:00 PM  

Fuzzyums Wuzzums, Jay Dyer makes it look effortless because he is thoroughly, habitually prepared. Talented, too, but don't let that fool you. Peterson is the kind of guy who is only smart enough to know he can't win honestly, so he won't prepare for honest debate at all. That way, in his mind, secret king coulda won it if he'd wanted to. A man of his age should have a body of work behind him that can answer anything that's thrown at him (like Vox can, for instance), whether he's prepared for that specific encounter or not. He has obviously found preparedness to be inadequate to cover for his inevitable failure, so he just doesn't try. It hurts too much to try and fail.

Blogger Rob Boss April 23, 2019 2:11 PM  

I stand by my regular assertion that Zizek is the only Marxist worth reading aside from Marx himself. Nobody is going to give as honest, entertaining to read, and logically/internally consistent view of leftism as he is. Zizek is what the Shapiro's and Praeger's fear most: a communist who actually knows what he's talking about.

Blogger lowercaseb April 23, 2019 2:20 PM  

nbfdmd wrote:By the way, off topic, but could someone please show me where I could find the codes used to do quoting and/or bold text on this blog? Thanks in advance.
It's just standard HTML tags < i > < b > ect...

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon April 23, 2019 2:51 PM  

Peterson doesn't have time to do research, because he is too busy saving the world to worry about such mundane matters. Primary source material? Unnecessary!

Paul Gottfried, a proper historian of western thought, pointed out a year or so ago that Peterson was very wobbly on post-modernism and marxism. It appears that Peterson is intent on proving that to the entire world.

I haven't watched this debate yet, but it sounds like another disaster that is following on the heels of that appalling performance at the Trilateral Commission meeting in Slovenia (where he looked out of his element and unsure of himself).

He is going to have to pull out another provocative anti-leftist stunt akin to his original stance against mandatory pro-trans language laws. He is rapidly fading into irrelevance.

Blogger tublecane April 23, 2019 4:49 PM  

@10- "Clean out your seminal vesicles, bucko."

Blogger Dave Dave April 23, 2019 6:11 PM  

Last debate he had he used the Cider of Doom excuse. This one was hyped up a lot more so he needs a bigger excuse. The Fabric Softener of Doom that irritates his skin because of his all meat diet? The viral Headache of Doom that his sick wife gave to him? The Wine of Doom that he tried to break the crazy person diet rules to drink because it was a special occasion?

Blogger mike April 24, 2019 1:19 PM  

I watched the entirety of the encounter between those two guys. Now I hate leftards and couldn't possibly take side of one, only a specific arguments. Now from the layman's view, this is the firat time that I was able to follow Petersons arguments and I agree with most of them. Zizek mostly agreed with Peterson's arguments against Marxism, good, I agree with them too. Peterson had more substance in his answers, Zizek mostly jumped between topics and had a very good arguments about world and people in general which I mostly agreed with too. It doesn't seem thos was a debate, more of a discussion, additionally Peterson always was called first on every topic, which in general was unfair it should be reversed with every round. I follow this blog and do not follow Peterson. I expected Peterson to fold under pressure and the authority of thw figure like Zizek. Like someone who was catched bluffing but was called out to show his cards. Although, some people might feel Peterson wasn't familiar with some of the literature mentioned by Zizek, it's hardly a reason to call the debate / discussion one way or another. Those 2 people have different specializations and it was more of a cross-field discussion where both were genuinely interested in their take on several subject. Zizek seemed more interested in Peterson and he did agree with him alot. Again bc Peterson went first on every topic he had much less opportunity to poke holes in Zizeks ideas. Overall, Peterson gave many more useful and concrete arguments against Marxism and the left, Zizek was more general but also had few good concrete arguments some against left and some pro left. To me Peterson proved he's not a joke as I regarded him until now, and I believe he proved this to Zizek. I've seen Zizek was able to learn from this encounter more than Peterson did.

Blogger Unknown April 25, 2019 1:56 AM  

I must have missed the part where Jordan Peterson was definitively btfo. It didn't happen. Zizek incoherently raved a lot, but he still had some interesting things to say. Between the two it was much more a discussion than a debate. And not a particularly notable one either. Just 2.5 hours of my life I will never get back, but that's youtube for you.

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