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Saturday, May 11, 2019

Always read the fine print

Wordpress, which recently deplatformed Chateau Heartiste, really needs to hire better lawyers. Consider the two following sections of its Terms of Use.
15. Jurisdiction and Applicable Law.
Except to the extent any applicable law provides otherwise, the Agreement and any access to or use of our Services will be governed by the laws of the state of California, U.S.A., excluding its conflict of law provisions. The proper venue for any disputes arising out of or relating to the Agreement and any access to or use of our Services will be the state and federal courts located in San Francisco County, California.

16. Arbitration Agreement
Except for claims for injunctive or equitable relief or claims regarding intellectual property rights (which may be brought in any competent court without the posting of a bond), any dispute arising under the Agreement shall be finally settled in accordance with the Comprehensive Arbitration Rules of the Judicial Arbitration and Mediation Service, Inc. (“JAMS”) by three arbitrators appointed in accordance with such Rules. The arbitration shall take place in San Francisco, California, in the English language and the arbitral decision may be enforced in any court. The prevailing party in any action or proceeding to enforce the Agreement shall be entitled to costs and attorneys’ fees.
So, Wordpress requires arbitration through the JAMS system, and they require the arbitration to take place in California. Not only that, but they declare that whoever wins can claim costs and attorneys's fees. This, of course, is meant to dissuade people like Heartiste from taking them to arbitration.

But not so fast. JAMS enforces the following standards, which are based on California law.
Consumer Arbitration Minimum Standards

JAMS will administer arbitrations pursuant to mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clauses between companies and consumers only if the contract arbitration clause and specified applicable rules comply with the following minimum standards of fairness.

The consumer must have a right to an in-person hearing in his or her hometown area.

With respect to the cost of the arbitration, when a consumer initiates arbitration against the company, the only fee required to be paid by the consumer is $250, which is approximately equivalent to current Court filing fees. All other costs must be borne by the company, including any remaining JAMS Case Management Fee and all professional fees for the arbitrator's services. When the company is the claiming party initiating an arbitration against the consumer, the company will be required to pay all costs associated with the arbitration.

In California, the arbitration provision may not require the consumer to pay the fees and costs incurred by the opposing party if the consumer does not prevail.
In other words, Chateau (or any of his readers) can bring an arbitration against Wordpress for $250, can do it in his hometown area rather than on Wordpress's turf, and cannot be forced to pay costs or legal fees even if he loses.

Always read the fine print.

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65 Comments:

Blogger Rek. May 11, 2019 2:16 AM  

Ill play ball. From Brussels.

Blogger Arcux May 11, 2019 2:38 AM  

The older I get, the more evidence I find that the "professionals" (doctors, lawyers, etc.) are far from it. Way too many are just as average as everyone else.

Blogger Matt May 11, 2019 2:46 AM  

Maybe we'll finally see who replaced Roissy.

Blogger Steve May 11, 2019 2:53 AM  

I couldn't believe my eyes when I went to his blog and realized he had been deplatformed. To day he wrote about Big Tech silencing dissident speech. The deplatforming was almost as if right on cue. I'll do anything I can to help. How would I go about bringing an arbitration against Wordpress (I live in Idaho).

I knew in my heart this day would come someday. Little did I know it would be 5/10/19 it is a shame beyond reckoning if his work is lost from the internet. I pray he posts his archived work at some point. Vox do you have a back channel with him? Is he going to start a new page in the mean time?

Blogger Don't Call Me Len May 11, 2019 3:03 AM  

It's not "Terms of Use", it's a wish list!

Hell of a way to run a business Chuck.

Blogger Gregory the Great May 11, 2019 3:34 AM  

In the years 2019 and 2020 a total of 11326 lawyers decided to moved to California hoping for a piece of the rapidly growing pie of consumer arbitration fees. The tsunami of arbitrations involving the big names of Silicon Valley had been kicked off by a tiny tribe in Gaul that had never stopped resisting the Romans...

Blogger dvdivx May 11, 2019 4:11 AM  

So what if multiple people file from multiple sites around the world?

Blogger The Observer May 11, 2019 4:53 AM  

So what if multiple people file from multiple sites around the world?

Exactly what's going on elsewhere right now. It'll be a nightmare trying to deal with a swarm of claims all in different jurisdictions.

Blogger James May 11, 2019 5:11 AM  

Is there any other site as informative as Roissy's (i do read alphagameplan and rational male)? I just started redpilling and i aint done by any stretch. To think I was just introduced to the right before the tech giants started banning them all smh

Blogger Cloudbuster May 11, 2019 5:17 AM  

I am not a lawyer and am just reading off of Wikipedia, but if CH seeks to force WP to reinstate it, does that count as "injunctive relief" and bypass the JAMS section?

Blogger Dave May 11, 2019 5:37 AM  

Uh-oh, https://wordpress.org/about/

(top of about page, huge font) Democratize Publishing
The freedom to build. The freedom to change. The freedom to share.



Our Mission

WordPress is software designed for everyone, emphasizing accessibility, performance, security, and ease of use. We believe great software should work with minimum set up, so you can focus on sharing your story, product, or services freely. The basic WordPress software is simple and predictable so you can easily get started. It also offers powerful features for growth and success.

We believe in democratizing publishing and the freedoms that come with open source. Supporting this idea is a large community of people collaborating on and contributing to this project. The WordPress community is welcoming and inclusive. Our contributors’ passion drives the success of WordPress which, in turn, helps you reach your goals.


[emphasis added]


Blogger Dave May 11, 2019 5:46 AM  

Surely I say, Shirley, there must be 500 loyal Chateau Heartiste from around the world capable and willing to pony up $250 to become a sharp, irritating, expensive thorn in the side of Wordpress.

Say 500 at $5k each is $2,500,000.00 and $5k is probably the low end from what we've heard from Vox.

Blogger JC Skinner May 11, 2019 5:52 AM  

I'd chip in towards Roissy's legal fees but at 250 by is he probably has it in oicket change. I hope the site is backed up somewhere.

Blogger Didact May 11, 2019 6:26 AM  

dvdivx wrote:So what if multiple people file from multiple sites around the world?

Wordpress has to accommodate hearings in the hometowns of every single claimant, by their own terms of use and JAMS rules.

The Supreme Dark Lord (PBUH) discovered this with respect to Indiegogo as well. There are a number of backers of the original AH:Q campaign who currently reside overseas (like me). We will bleed Indiegogo dry simply by forcing them to deal with multiple cuts and wounds.

Each one is insignificant - the $250 filing fee is expensive for an individual claimant. But when you add up all of the costs associated with fighting every little individual claim... well, that's a pretty tidy sum.

The same can and should be done to Wordpress, Inc.

Blogger Mark Stoval May 11, 2019 6:48 AM  

More and more we see the tech firms censoring anything they don't like. It is almost as if all their SJW employees just censor anything that is not in total agreement with their own mental illness. They go after the little fry as the bosses go after the bigger fish.

At what point do we stop the left wing totalitarian satanists from controlling all debate? We had best start soon.

Mr. Trump, are you listening?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine May 11, 2019 6:53 AM  

Swarm-fetishists open wide to potential swarm tactics? Unsurprising.

"So what if multiple people file from multiple sites around the world?"

The emperor loses even his pretense of clothes, to pay off legal fees....

Blogger Robert What? May 11, 2019 7:23 AM  

Has CH reappeared anywhere to anyone's knowledge?

Blogger tdcommenter May 11, 2019 7:36 AM  

@7 we hope to find out.

Blogger Halvar Andersen May 11, 2019 7:36 AM  

I seem to remember seeing a list of non-converged web services (email, hosting, etc) here in another thread. I have tried searching for it a few times but have not been successful in finding it. Are there any suggestions on a friendly blog host and domain registrar, maybe a few other web services as well?

Blogger Mike Wallens May 11, 2019 8:13 AM  

It's demoralizing to CH gone but I am sure that is their intent. He was de-platformed before, around 2010, when he was just known as Roissy. Hopefully he will pop again soon.

Blogger Weak May 11, 2019 8:16 AM  

Progressives are idiots. So how did they develop all of the tech sites? Why didn't the right come up with any of these sites in the first place?

Blogger marco moltisanti May 11, 2019 8:26 AM  

@4 "I knew in my heart this day would come someday. Little did I know it would be 5/10/19 it is a shame beyond reckoning if his work is lost from the internet. I pray he posts his archived work at some point. Vox do you have a back channel with him? Is he going to start a new page in the mean time?"

I remember Heartiste posting maybe a year ago that he knew this day was coming and that he had the whole blog backed up offline. IIRC, he also had a contingency plan for hosting the site elsewhere. Let's hope.

Heartiste's last post was about Roosh being demonetized from two platforms. Hopefully Roosh has contingency plans because I imagine they'll be coming for him next.

Blogger pyrrhus May 11, 2019 8:51 AM  

So California law, and the law of virtually every State, requires an arbitration procedure for "consumers" that is directly at odds with the contract language of the agreement.That makes the contract language abusive.....The attorneys had to know this, so they're probably reduced to claiming that CH is not a consumer..

Blogger James Dixon May 11, 2019 8:53 AM  

> The consumer must have a right to an in-person hearing in his or her hometown area.

Is Heartiste even in the US?

> So what if multiple people file from multiple sites around the world?

They have to respond to each one. At a considerable cost. Uber found this out the hard way: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/uber-sees-wage-suits-dropped-including-12-501-arbitration-claims (pay site, but the first few paragraphs that are in the clear cover the important details)

Blogger Lovekraft May 11, 2019 8:58 AM  

Wordpress shadowbanned me and I was unable to inquire. A solid techwall of censorship. My ban came just after posting about the Toronto hotel that was taken over by Syrian refugees (with the key nugget of two 14 year old males ogling and hitting on a 7-year old white girl while in an elevvator with her mother).

Blogger Felix Bellator May 11, 2019 8:59 AM  

Then I suppose WordPress would have to send lawyers or hire lawyers at all of those locations. Sounds expensive. But cheaper than what breaking Gawker cost Thiel.

Blogger Lovekraft May 11, 2019 9:03 AM  

It will be nice to see who at wordpress is pulling the strings. We all have our suspicions, but I suspect not only the ME actors, but the rising Hindu caste in silicon valley.

Blogger JG May 11, 2019 9:15 AM  

All these internet companies think, probably correctly, that the average user isn't astute enough to fight back. All it takes, however, is someone to show the way. When Indiegogo collapses under the weight of hundreds or thousands of individual claims, we'll be able to hear the "REEEEEEEEEEEs" from space, as these SJW infested companies learn their vulnerability.

Blogger kmbr May 11, 2019 9:31 AM  

I just came here to see if you were addressing this.

I really hope he's not gone. Brilliant guy, love his work.

Blogger Ken Prescott May 11, 2019 9:41 AM  

California also has the Unruh Act, which specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of political alignment.

Blogger DraveckysHumerus May 11, 2019 9:46 AM  

I tread gingerly here with a few observations.

Section 18 provides that CH must indemnify Wordpress from and against any and all losses, liabilities, demands, damages, costs, claims, and expenses, including attorneys’ fees, arising out of or related to [CH's] use of [Wordpress] Services, including but not limited to [CH's] violation of the Agreement, Content .... Thus arguably even if CH prevails he would owe Wordpress reimbursement pursuant to his indemnification obligations. Of course, Section 18 may not be enforceable or it may be subsumed under the tribunal's decision.

A swath of claims pertaining to equitable relief are nominally exempted from mandatory arbitration. CH's dispute sounds in equity given he essentially would be seeking to have his account and publishing privileges restored, i.e., it is an unquantifiable action demanded.

Content posted and hosted at CH's site routinely goes beyond the pale and there are reams of it. I rather doubt CH can convince a tribunal his publishing activities were somehow not egregious violations of written policies and terms and conditions sustained over many years.

That is all.

Blogger Daniel May 11, 2019 10:05 AM  

VP and CH are my only regular reads. Fuck these people

Blogger sd May 11, 2019 10:20 AM  

Not only Heartsite but other blogs like TheUglyTruth and Saboteur365 should use the JAMS should bring an arbitration against Wordpress as well.

And here his more recent blog post.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 11, 2019 10:45 AM  

Is there a place online from which Roissy still speaks? A place for updates? What is he saying about this?

Blogger wahr01 May 11, 2019 10:51 AM  

It appears WordPress SJW's haven't filtered to the technical levels?

According to this Twitter thread they didn't do it right, backups were extracted from their servers, and it looks like they'll be spinning back up on non-hosted WordPress install within the week.

https://twitter.com/RedPillSchool/status/1126972182490419200

Blogger David Ray Milton May 11, 2019 11:10 AM  

Arbitration is often mandated by companies to rig who is going win the case, which is nearly always the company selecting for arbitration. That’s the bad news.

The good news is that if enough consumers file in this particular case it sounds like they could financially screw Wordpress. I’m kind of lukewarm on Chateau, but if there are enough @Steve’s out there, then Wordpress might be paying a lot of legal fees in the near future.

Blogger jdgalt May 11, 2019 11:13 AM  

California is also one of the few jurisdictions in the US (the other one I know being Washington, DC) where politics is one of the banned types of discrimination. This case, if brought, could set a useful precedent.

Blogger pdwalker May 11, 2019 11:22 AM  

@dvdivx then it gets very expensive.

I suspect they will change their rules soon enough.

Blogger VD May 11, 2019 11:32 AM  

Arbitration is often mandated by companies to rig who is going win the case, which is nearly always the company selecting for arbitration.

That's simply not true. As a general rule, arbitration is mandated to cut down on legal costs.

Blogger Chent May 11, 2019 11:39 AM  

Excuse me for point the obvious.

I don't get why people host their blogs in third-party platforms such as Wordpress.com or Blogspot.com.

Downloading the wordpress package and installing it in your hosting page is a breeze.

What is it the point to giving external companies power to easy remove your work from the web?

Blogger State Estimation May 11, 2019 11:53 AM  

https://gab.com/Heartiste

Blogger VD May 11, 2019 12:00 PM  

I don't get why people host their blogs in third-party platforms such as Wordpress.com or Blogspot.com.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe it is better to make them show their hand than do their job for them. The important thing is to have the alternative always ready to go live on a moment's notice.

Blogger Sam May 11, 2019 12:24 PM  

@21
They didn't. Progressives parasitized many of them. Others were fronts of the intelligence agencies (google and facebook probably have CIA backing).

It is a very simple process. If normal people hire competent individuals and leftists exclusively hire other leftists (the same process as ethnic nepotism), any organization that doesn't explicitly exclude leftists will get taken over by them. Then it will die, explode and release all the leftists replicating inside of it.

The solution involves executing heretics to prevent leftists from developing a religion that allows them to work together and coordinate their parasitism.

Blogger ErotemeObelus May 11, 2019 12:42 PM  

Cool username, no sarcasm.

Blogger Cloudbuster May 11, 2019 1:16 PM  

DraveckysHumerus wrote:
Content posted and hosted at CH's site routinely goes beyond the pale


Can you post me to the official "beyond the pale" rules site and provide me with some names of the Committee for Identifying Discourse that is Beyond the Pale?" Is that part of the FCC?

Blogger James Pyrich May 11, 2019 1:20 PM  

The last post I saw from Heartiste contained a story about this little Twitter video: https://twitter.com/BenJonesGI/status/1126541981897953282

Blogger Ominous Cowherd May 11, 2019 1:21 PM  

Dave wrote:Surely I say, Shirley, there must be 500 loyal Chateau Heartiste from around the world capable and willing to pony up $250 to become a sharp, irritating, expensive thorn in the side of Wordpress.

I am a regular Chateau reader and have $250 and a Wordpress account. What grounds do I have to file an arbitration claim? I'm not seeing that a tort has been committed against me.

Win, lose or draw, that hearing in my hometown is going to cost them, too.

Blogger Dave May 11, 2019 1:51 PM  

DraveckysHumerus wrote:I tread gingerly here with a few observations.

Spoiler alert: did not tread sufficiently gingerly, as noted in Uber thread.

Blogger Tino May 11, 2019 2:04 PM  

The 1st Am has been ruled to include to a Right to Listen as the reciprocal of the Right to Speak.

Blogger John Bradley May 11, 2019 3:15 PM  

In slightly related culture war news, a YouTuber I follow, ChuckE2009, posted a vid two days ago of him reading the NZ shooters manifesto, because it's been banned. Yesterday, he posted a 15 min video explaining that they're deleting his channel, and he's neither surprised nor concerned. In this video he freely expresses a wide range of BadThink: nationalism, disgust at the sodomites corruption of children, anti-Islam, anti-mass-immigration, as well as naming those who are behind it.

Notable because this guy is a nice white Texas guy in his 20s with 500k subscribers, and he's known for his videos demonstrating welding and the repair and use of farm machinery. Was making six figures annually from YT views, but decided wealth wasn't important if he loses his country.

The normies are noticing, and getting angry.

Blogger MJ Meyers May 11, 2019 3:39 PM  

It makes sense for the system to work this way from the viewpoint of the arbitration companies. You'd want the party with the big pockets to pay you, not the small guy suing. If you're an arbitrator, do you want to be paid by the company once a claim is filed or do you want an individual economically harmed (who will almost certainly have little money to pay if he loses) by an adverse decision to owe you, causing you to have to hire collection companies to impose liens by filing judgments in respective state courts (and how many people have sufficient equity in real estate for their respective states?) and garnishing wages there?

If it's true that (a) the company the claim is filed against wins most cases and (b) the company makes the loser pay the arbitrator, how would these retired judges and high-profile lawyers make enough money to make the process worth their while? Surely, California lawyers and other states have thought of this when writing their arbitration laws.

As an arbitrator, I'd be like, "Look, you write whatever stupid rules you want in your TOS to scare your customers. But if you hire me, you're gonna pay me!"

Blogger Scott May 11, 2019 4:37 PM  

“Then, gentlemen,” said Napoleon, “let us wait a little; when your enemy is executing a false movement, never interrupt him.”

Blogger bossHawg May 11, 2019 5:00 PM  

Daniel wrote:VP and CH are my only regular reads. Fuck these people

same here. roissy will be back up and running, and probably very soon. you can tell he enjoys writing way too much to quit over a little stumbling block like this

Blogger Tars Tarkas May 11, 2019 5:10 PM  

John Bradley wrote:Yesterday, he posted a 15 min video explaining that they're deleting his channel, and he's neither surprised nor concerned. In this video he freely expresses a wide range of BadThink: nationalism, disgust at the sodomites corruption of children, anti-Islam, anti-mass-immigration, as well as naming those who are behind it.

I've watched many of his videos but was never subscribed. We need more just like him. I wish we knew how many people would agree if they were allowed to do so. There are times I think people are woke and there are times I would have never guessed they were an SJW.

Blogger Raker_T May 11, 2019 5:36 PM  

I take it that the blog was on WP servers, not separate hosting. I use WP, and find that it's very convenient. That said, there was some sort of glitch in one of the latest versions, I'd have to go make a post to remember what it was. IIRC, I read about other people with the same problem. Then one day, it's fixed. I didn't do it, the CMS is tied in with WP, I can tell because I get notifications from them in a sidebar on the admin page. They apparently fixed it. If they can fix a problem on a separate server, it stands to reason that they could do other things.

Blogger One Deplorable DT May 11, 2019 5:41 PM  

@40 - I don't get why people host their blogs in third-party platforms such as Wordpress.com or Blogspot.com.

I read Vox's answer and get it for him, but I doubt that's a good strategy for most right wing bloggers.

More importantly: why use their default URL instead of a domain name you own? You can still show their hand by making it clear who your host is. But when your visitors use your domain name and the SJWs at your host ban you, you can be up in a heartbeat with your first new post being "they showed their hand."

For Heartiste...and Vox...a ban means a URL change which damages the number of people following, old links, search results, etc.

Blogger Daniel May 11, 2019 5:59 PM  

Looking forward for the new place

Blogger Ford Prefect May 11, 2019 6:05 PM  

@40: Chent, for those of us who are reasonably technically inclined, and have the time to spare, hosting our own Wordpress instance is possible. Keep in mind that unless your hosting service does the work for you, you will have to keep the software up to date, etc. Time consuming but not that difficult if you have sufficient technical chops.

Not everyone has the technical chops or the time to do it right. Using WordPress to actually host your blog removes significant work from your plate and provides your best chance of having your blog hosted on up-to-date software (no guarantee, but...). This does, of course, put you at their mercy. It's up to you to weigh the pros and cons and choose what is best for you.

Blogger LP916 May 11, 2019 9:41 PM  

They went after Roosh now Roissy-ChateauHearstie?!

Really? Wait til Sunday into the radio workweek. The Lord has this matter and will work it to Roissy's and men's good, the Lord Jesus can take any matter on this earth and turn it around for greatness, his glory and the persons best or blessing. When bad things happen, great, its just another way for God to win yet again and forever over evil.

Roissy's work is not evil or terrible, its a lie he broke whatever wordpressing wizardry lizardry is claiming an fake excuse to take his blog down. I adore reading there but its for men only or a shop talk place where men talk.

Wordpress is a loser.

I want to Read (my) Roissy. ChateauH over at Gab is awesome, funny, kind, interesting just like men on the real Right are, like around here, kind normal real men. I messaged R and he replied to me, a no one, around 2016 when I was at Gab. He is a kind approachable gentleman and gentlemen do not warrant this treatment, I am aware of the fine ever-changing SJW print.

Shame on Wordpress!

Blogger damaris.tighe May 12, 2019 2:29 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger sd May 12, 2019 10:56 AM  

@50. John Bradley

The guy had uploaded his recent videos on Bitchute as well.

Blogger JG May 12, 2019 4:54 PM  

As someone who operates a website based on Wordpress (but not on Wordpress servers), is there any reason why Chateau Heartiste could not just transfer their site to any of a thousand ISPs that provide generic web server functions? Backing up a Wordpress site and moving it is pretty trivial actually... The primary difference is Chateau Heartiste won't be using .wordpress.com anymore.

I'm sure VD has done something similar with VP.

I understand that Wordpress is open source, and thus there is no way that Wordpress could actually prevent this transfer from happening, assuming that Chateau Heartiste had been doing regular backups.

Am I missing something here?

Blogger Damelon Brinn May 12, 2019 10:00 PM  

is there any reason why Chateau Heartiste could not just transfer their site to any of a thousand ISPs that provide generic web server functions?

No, not if he has it backed up. He could also get a virtual or physical server anywhere in the world and install Wordpress on his own server. As you say, the only change to the user would be the domain.

That doesn't make you invulnerable, because the hounds can chase you to your new hosting/network provider or your domain registrar, and pressure them to dump you, as we've seen with other sites. So there's no guarantee that running your own independent Wordpress instance will protect you, but it's more likely.

Blogger ratlick May 14, 2019 9:07 PM  

Does no one know you can just download the entire website right now? They didn't delete the website or the google archives lol, they just suspended it. In fact, I am downloading it right now, just passed all posts made from 2019 to 2011.

Blogger Bezzle May 16, 2019 8:08 PM  

"Maybe we'll finally see who replaced Roissy." (Matt)

-- Turd Flinging Monkey.

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