ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2018 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Tuesday, May 14, 2019

Mostly stupid

It wasn't quite the relentless, multi-level stupidity of Avenger's Endgame, but the penultimate episode of A Game of Thrones left me with much the same impression as reading A Dance with Dragons did. Namely, that I can do better. And I was very far from the only viewer left unimpressed.

WARNING: Spoilers ahead:
10 big flaws with the penultimate episode of Game Of Thrones:

1. Daenerys

Some viewers complained that the way Dany abandoned her principles (everything she’d ever stood for) and descended into butchery was irrational or rash. In fact if anything it was too predictable – to Varys and us anyway, if not Jon and Tyrion.

‘They say every time a Targaryen is born the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath,’ the Spider told the dwarf. ‘We both know what she’s about to do.’

In a fable about power, and the hunger for absolute power corrupting absolutely, it was inevitable – much like Varys’ execution.

But the way she spared Tyrion, Jaime Lannister, and even her lover Jon surely made less sense. If anything their betrayals were much greater than his. It was not Tyrion’s first mistake either and her warning ‘next time you fail me is the last time you fail me’ didn’t sit with her ruthlessness towards Varys – or King’s Landing.

‘Sansa trusted you to spread secrets that could destroy your own queen,’ she hissed. ‘And you did not let her down...Varys knows the truth because you told him. You learned from Sansa and she learned from Jon, though I begged him not to tell her...He betrayed me.’

2. Varys

Probably the most under-rated, under-used Game Of Thrones’ character, Varys had known ‘more kings and queens than any man living’, as he pointed out to Jon, and survived them all. In fact he’d turned survival, seamlessly switching sides, into an artform. So it was unlikely that he’d have allowed Daenerys to come for him without conceiving some sort of escape, especially as he knew Tyrion disagreed with his view Jon would make a better ruler. Finally the way her dragon simply torched Varys was a disappointingly, uncharacteristically, coarse form of execution.

Rash: Some viewers complained that the way Dany abandoned her principles (everything she’d ever stood for) and descended into butchery was irrational or rash +10
Rash: Some viewers complained that the way Dany abandoned her principles (everything she’d ever stood for) and descended into butchery was irrational or rash

3. Tyrion

Tyrion’s sustained faith in Daenerys being a benevolent, moral, candidate to rule the Seven Kingdoms was never very convincing. Tyrion wasn’t ever idealistic let alone naïve and, given his acute intelligence, ignoring Varys’ judgement/counsel just didn’t add up either. He had already been suckered by Cersei and Jaime so shouldn’t have swallowed Dany’s promise to hold back after a surrender. Obviously, family is everything in GoT. Tyrion releasing his brother (returning the favour) made sense but urging Jaime to save Cersei (telling him to escape and ‘start a new life’) ?? Nope, just don’t see Tyrion doing that – especially as it was before Dany went on the rampage.
The biggest problem with all this fake drama, which I addressed briefly in last night's Darkstream, is that it was dependent upon highly intelligent characters to be something they were not. Both Varys and Tyrion saw Daenerys's descent into ruthless butchery coming, but neither of them, despite their long personal histories of taking matters into their own lethal hands, bothers to do anything conclusive about it. Given how much both men care about the people of King's Landing, their fecklessness in the situation is simply absurd, particularly in the case of Varys, since the treachery involved in his letting others know about Jon's claim on the throne guaranteed his execution in the event of detection anyhow.

I see this trainwreck of an episode as a classic example of letting the visuals drive the story, which is almost always a mistake. The writers have a certain image in mind, so they move the pieces around to ensure they can present it to the viewers with no respect for either the characters involved or its effect on the story. Or, for that matter, the viewers' intelligence.

It was even too stupid for The Verge:
Taken as a whole, all these idiot gestures look exactly the same. “The Bells” is full of characters being their dumbest, most ill-considered selves, solely in the pursuit of momentary conflicts and payoffs. Jaime’s death in Cersei’s arms seems like a fitting payoff for all his awful behavior with her in the early going of the series, but it completely ignores all his character development over eight seasons, including his most recent relationship. Euron’s attempt to murder the first person he sees after his ship is destroyed seems in character for an agent of chaos, but it still feels forced and random. Varys couldn’t go about his plan in a dumber way if he tried — it’s almost as though he’s anticipating and hoping for execution, to remind Jon that Dany is capable of killing even those closest to her.

Labels: ,

84 Comments:

Blogger maniacprovost May 14, 2019 6:39 AM  

Endgame might be stupider than the other Avengers movies, but it was the first one I really liked.

I'm confused as to why the GoT producers apparently didn't want to hire a good writer to outline the last season, twist the plots, fulfill the prophecies etc. Are they just letting the TV snapback hacks get away with lazy tropes? Perhaps, after all this time, they are still unaware that there is a plot layer behind the drama.

Financially, I'm sure they think that a consistent plot and characters don't add value to the majority of the audience or drive Blu-ray sales. But even so, they should have some iota of interest in the quality of their work.

Blogger Doktor Jeep May 14, 2019 7:15 AM  

When something gets this bad, I sense a "get woke go broke" element to all this, like they are trying to deliver a narrative at the expense of quality.
The situation with the night king guy felt like bird-dogging. The "whites" were coming to kill everybody. The brown hordes were used as cannon fodder outside the walls as the important and special people hid in the city slurping their lattes.... uh... had a better plan. I think the urban leftists really think they are going to slap uniforms on the illegals and immigrants and have them engage Americans in battle in the fields. Oh but they did get the night king, who just had to be blue instead of orange, with one lucky move. How many of these leftoids dream of the president having a rally one one brave Antifa or some cretin like that manages to pull an Arya Stark?

Now this. The guys with some agency and power standing by like fenceposts while girly girl with her dragon goes full mass shooting... uh burning. I can make an argument that this Dany character experirenced the same alienation that any school shooter feels and how semi-automatic flame delivery systems should be banned. But the left justifies it when their heroes do it. Heard much about the latest suspects?

We may not be getting hit with LGBT characters or may Jon having a gay feel or something, for that would be too blatant, but the "woke" thing is a cancer that creates other symptoms.

Blogger Skyler the Weird May 14, 2019 7:15 AM  

Terrible on so many levels. The Cleganebowl was more the Denver-Seattle Super Bowl, boring. Cersei did not get a death that matched all her evil deeds. Jaime's redemption arc was wasted. Khaleesi went crazy cause her nephew won't sleep with her like a good Targayen. I guess when she dies next week she'll go to the Seven heavens with Aquaman.

In the end no one cares who wins the Game of Thrones.

Blogger Johnny May 14, 2019 7:19 AM  

>>I see this as a classic example of letting the visuals drive the story, which is almost always a mistake. The writers have a certain image in mind, so they move the pieces around to ensure they can present it with no respect for either the characters involved or its effect on the story.

I am not sure if we are thinking of the same thing or not, but in the movie industry they don't want the script writer honing in on the directors talents by directing from the script. What can happen is that the writer will sometimes use the dialog itself to direct from the script by writing dialog that forces the scene to be done in a particular way, or defines the character of actor in a way that is a covert casting. This can produce too much dialogue, or dialog that is unnatural. Doesn't seem like the best possible approach to me.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 14, 2019 7:22 AM  

The writers have a certain image in mind, so they move the pieces around to ensure they can present it with no respect for either the characters involved or its effect on the story.

Which explains Arya backstabbing the Night King.

Freed of the constraints of Rape-Rape's narrative, one of the producers absolutely fell in love with that image.

Nevermind that it didn't make any sense whatsoever when you look at the sequence leading up to it.

The Gamma Male writer absolutely had to have that scene in the show.

His female sexual personification had to do be the real hero of the entire 8 season run.

Blogger wreckage May 14, 2019 7:23 AM  

So, if I'm following this correctly, we're meant to believe that a history of being a murderous bastard, or a history of being utterly incompetent, are both lesser predictors of disastrous personality flaws than just having power?

What is it with nihilists being so hopelessly bloody naive? When will the cult of the incompetent male end?

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 14, 2019 7:35 AM  

Additional thought from my last comment.

Either that or it was some Dungeons and Dragons geek finally and at long last having revenge on his college gaming night group from twenty years ago.

Future GOT Writer: What do you mean that Tatyana, my Elf Fighter-Mage-Cleric-Assassin-Monk can't backstab and Ancient Red Dragon for 5X Damage and roll on the Assassination Table at the same time?!?!?!

College Night DM: First of all, the Assassination Table isn't in the new rules, which we all agreed we'd be using.

Future GOT Writer: I didn't!

College Night DM: Second of all, Tatyana is dead. We've all killed her repeatedly because none of us can stand having you around because you are That Guy. You weren't even invited. We keep changing locations just to avoid you.

Future GOT Writer: I'll make all of you regret this!

Blogger VD May 14, 2019 7:35 AM  

Doesn't seem like the best possible approach to me.

You're wrong. Writers are much better storytellers and writers of dialogue than directors. Directors give us oh-so-funny wisecracks about dwarf-tossing in The Lord of the Rings.

If the director does not serve the story, he is literally worse than useless. A great director will actually improve the story while respecting it, as in the case of The Godfather. But it is now eminently clear that GRR Martin, for all his flaws, is a MUCH better storyteller than Beniof and Weiss.

Blogger PJW Gent May 14, 2019 7:41 AM  

Re: "he writers have a certain image in mind, so they move the pieces around to ensure they can present it to the viewers with no respect for either the characters involved or its effect on the story. Or, for that matter, the viewers' intelligence."

In other words, they are not really writers at all, or if you are being kind, they are really poor writers and even worse story tellers.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 14, 2019 7:44 AM  

So glad HBO was asking an arm and a leg to re-up, steaming piles every week, so says anyone with two brain cells.

The woman burning it all down is an old trope, today we add the gamma males with their cultural marxist torches.

Too bad conservatives are stuck in the OODA loop ran by these vile scum, always tailgating the arsonists with their little water bottles trying to put out the flames.

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 7:49 AM  

The fail mode is precisely the same as the fail mode of The Last Jedi. They are not doing what is good for the story... they are not doing what is good for the characters. They are doing what looks pretty on the screen. That is the lesson to be learned. Don't fall into that trap.

Everything that was so amazingly dumb about The Long Night was done because it looked cool. Many of the remarkably dumb things done in TLJ were done because they looked cool.

That is not to say that SJWisms don't cause issues... they absolutely do.. but they come in cringey moments like the GURL POWER charge (which failed by the way) in End Game.

Today they put the cart before the horse. Rather than coming up with a way to shoot the events of the story in such a way as to make them look cool (think the first Matrix) they now change the story or the characters or anything else they want just to build their predetermined shot.

something I am half expecting to see... Danny attempts to execute Jon the same way she did Varys. But Jon walks out of the fire unhurt... just as Danny did way back so many seasons ago.

It would be an undeniably cool scene to see... and it is just like Hollywood today to be willing to destroy a whole show just to make that one scene.

Blogger basementhomebrewer May 14, 2019 7:49 AM  

The stupid keeps running deeper. Jon saw what was going to happen and stood around like an idiot who had no power for at least 20 minutes. He was in charge of the infantry, or at the very least the northern infantry. The idea they were loyal to Dany over him is laughable. That was the whole point of the conflict between him and Dany. He could have easily ordered a withdrawal as soon as he saw what was coming but instead wandered around like any other soldier with no leader.

As for the rest, it's as Vox says. They wanted the visuals. The whole series up to season 6 rested on intrigue, character arcs, story etc. Remember season 1 didn't even show the battles but gave you the aftermath through the character's dialogue. Once they got the budget they dispensed with things like story and dialogue and concentrated on the easiest way to get to the next battle.

One of the more amazing things this season to me was they only had 6 episodes and they spent an episode on "the calm before the storm". That didn't work particularly well before the battle of the Blackwater but some unoriginal writer decided it should be brought back. They could have instead done the battle for Winterfell on episode 2 and spent an episode focused on the angling of Vary's vs Tyrion on what to do about Jon and Dany. That way Vary's and Tyrion wouldn't have had to look like complete morons.

Blogger maniacprovost May 14, 2019 7:50 AM  

Or maybe GRRM really did give them the season 8 plot, and he sabotaged them to make his never-to-be-completed book series look better.

Blogger VD May 14, 2019 7:52 AM  

He could have easily ordered a withdrawal as soon as he saw what was coming but instead wandered around like any other soldier with no leader.

The complete absence of Alphas among the creative team could not be more obvious. Literally no one involved, beginning with George RR Martin, understands anything about leadership.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 14, 2019 7:57 AM  

@Nate.

Good news!

The creative team for Game of Thrones is now in charge of Star Wars!

I wish I was joking!

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 8:01 AM  

"The complete absence of Alphas among the creative team could not be more obvious. Literally no one involved, beginning with George RR Martin, understands anything about leadership."

its not just that they don't know. They don't care. They think its irrelevant. because all that matters is how it looks on the screen.

Compare the fight scenes of TFA to the fight scenes of TLJ. For The Force Awakens they brought in the guys from the John Wick movies to make it all work better... they literally handed them the keys for those scenes. Contrast that with TLJ where they did not bring any outside help in.. and you get total trainwrecks like the retarded thrown room fight… arguably the most poorly executed fight scene in a big budget film in the last 20 years.

Blogger LibertyPortraits May 14, 2019 8:02 AM  

Jon is the most disappointing character. He's the weakest Gamma-secret king personified. He's always reluctant and afraid to do the honorable thing. Has he ever conspired to win at anything? Terrible leader, and he'd make a terrible King. Probably the only guy worth kinging at this point would be Brienne, who was the most knightly of them all.

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 8:04 AM  

"The woman burning it all down is an old trope, today we add the gamma males with their cultural marxist torches."

shouldn't there be second wave feminists pissed off about the women in GoT and TLJ being portrayed as incompetent idiots ruled by emotions that get millions of people killed because pride?

Blogger billo May 14, 2019 8:17 AM  

I think the problem is mostly one of time. The GOT franchise had built a very complex story with a large number of characters with complex backstories. And now you've got four or five episodes to wrap everything up. That means that no matter what you do, it will be superficial and unsatisfying. All you really can accomplish is check off all the boxes: take care of the thing in the north -- check; get Arya laid -- check; kill Cersei -- check, etc.

Really, that forces you to drop into cliches and tropes so the viewers can fill in all the blanks themselves. We all love Disney princesses where the spunky young girl kicks the ass of the 220 lb special forces bad guy, right? OK, let's make Arya the spunky Disney princess and have her do what an army cannot. Once she fits into the Disney princes trope, the viewers can feel right at home. The same thing is true with the rest of the final season. Sunday's episode was just an example of checking as many boxes as possible as quickly as possible with just barely enough twine to keep everything from completely unraveling. Anything more cannot be accomplished in so few episodes.

Blogger qualitycontrol May 14, 2019 8:22 AM  

'But it is now eminently clear that GRR Martin, for all his flaws, is a MUCH better storyteller than Beniof and Weiss.'

That was like 3 years ago when they killed off characters for shock value.

I have no issue with a visual driven movie when it's done correctly. The opening scene of Christopher Nolans 'The Dark Knight Rises' is just one example. Great Visuals but stupid dialogue. However, TV is a different medium that appears to be more story and character driven.

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 8:29 AM  

"I have no issue with a visual driven movie when it's done correctly."

Done Correctly: The Matrix

Done Incorrectly: Everything else.

Blogger Ron May 14, 2019 8:32 AM  

Some stray thoughts;

SJW's are complaining that white men (Benioff and Weiss) did the female characters a disservice. SJW's still not getting it.

Benioff and Weiss have a contract with Disney to produce a Star Wars trilogy. More doubling down to ruin on Disney's part while B&W only focusing on making more money with Disney. Having watched GoT become a trainwreck, I have learned my lesson and won't be watching.

Jorah, Tyrion and Jon refused to see Dany for what she was because they were too caught up with her beauty. Jorah was the stereotypical white knight while Tyrion had lost his ability to get laid when he lost his wealth. Jon always falls for strong go-girls.

Dany was turned on by bad boy killers like Kal Drogo and mercenary dude and Jon who has killed, been killed and came back with the scars to prove it. And he's got pretty hair.

And finally, there are now no more fleas in Flea Bottom.

Blogger Troushers May 14, 2019 8:47 AM  

The subtext is Danerys is menopausal. Poor judgement, over emotional,embittered by unreturned affection from her nephew, emotional over-reliance on pets... the signs are all there.

Get that queen some uncooked mare victuals.

Blogger Brick Hardslab May 14, 2019 8:48 AM  

I was wondering after the Arya-stab if they weren't working from a template handed to them from Martin but mostly ignored until the end. If he had a couple books (yeah we're going to see that) to gradually work Dany into a smoldering psycho Jamie to fall in love with Brianne then betray her and Varys to see the only way to get the real King to see his queen was too flawed to ever rule, maybe it would have been less forced.

As it is we're left with an unsatisfying episode in which the characters all act like cardboard cut outs. My prediction is that Arya kills Dany and takes her face either abdicating in favor of Jon or being killed by there dragon.

Blogger Dr Caveman May 14, 2019 8:51 AM  

I'm still completely puzzled by the decision to wrap up complex story arcs built up over seven years in just six episodes...
Were they not making money off the whole enterprise? They had enough material to last them another season or two

Blogger Unknown May 14, 2019 8:57 AM  

Let's be fair: Arya has Direwolf blood and spent her entire life training to be a silent killer - including whatever enhancing potions and concoctions you get as a faceless one. And the only time White Walkers have previously been killed on the show is when they underestimated humans.

The way the scene was handled was dumb as hell (why couldn't she have hid in the tree instead?), and it happened way too quickly (one episode for everything?). But out of all the other horrible plotlines and developments, that was actually the most believable. I know it was written from a rather SJW perspective, but I'm certain a different writer could have pulled this off elegantly.

On the other hand, it's unforgiveable that Tyrion and Varys suddenly became stupid. Jaime somehow forgot all the hatred he built up for Cersei and was like "nah this puss is better". Jon... what was he doing anyway?

Blogger CM May 14, 2019 8:58 AM  

The situation with the night king guy felt like bird-dogging. The "whites" were coming to kill everybody. The brown hordes were used as cannon fodder outside the walls as the important and special people hid in the city slurping their lattes.... uh... had a better plan. I think the urban leftists really think they are going to slap uniforms on the illegals and immigrants and have them engage Americans in battle in the fields. Oh but they did get the night king, who just had to be blue instead of orange, with one lucky move. How many of these leftoids dream of the president having a rally one one brave Antifa or some cretin like that manages to pull an Arya Stark?

I had a completely different take on the first episodes. I found them incredibly nationalist and echoing a lot of what has been said here.

- the emphasis on Summer's Children lined up to fight a war they know nothing about except they must fight because the generations that came before squandered and devalued their inheritance of culture (weirwood worship), history (why the wall), and knowledge (locked in chains in Old Town)

- Dany's growing apprehension that she is a stranger and doesn't belong, actually voiced by Missandei and Grey Worm.

- Sansa's persistence in keeping the North's sovereignty is played far more positively than Dany's imperial ambitions of ruling all seven kingdoms.

But you know, we can take anything out of it, I suppose.

But it is now eminently clear that GRR Martin, for all his flaws, is a MUCH better storyteller than Beniof and Weiss.

I still think GRRM is really bad at driving plot and narrative. He's great at character sketching and dialog. B & W were great at being his editors, making his story better, but they can't generate original material.

Blogger CM May 14, 2019 9:03 AM  

Jon is the most disappointing character. He's the weakest Gamma-secret king personified. He's always reluctant and afraid to do the honorable thing

Jon is Conservative, inc.

Principles Uber Alles, with no regard to outcomes. People made slaves to principles.

Blogger Wraithburn May 14, 2019 9:05 AM  

@Nate

There is at least one Feminist pissed at the episode. So mad in fact, she rage ate an entire pizza.

https://twitter.com/CandiceAiston/status/1127826058785349632

Blogger Derrick Bonsell May 14, 2019 9:11 AM  

The prophecies aren't real in universe, Martin is trying to tell us that it's the decisions and actions of men that cause events to happen, not fate.

Blogger Matt May 14, 2019 9:23 AM  

It's downright annoying to see how dumb they've made Tyrion. He's just a depressed dwarf now. Even his hair is always messed up. His defense and support of Daenerys boils down to "You guuuuys..come oooonnnnn...pleeeeEAAAAASSEE??"

Blogger Matt May 14, 2019 9:26 AM  

-Tyrion and Sansa will be King and Queen

-Jon will go north and pet that damn doggie.

I dont care about Arya, so I haven't thought about what will happen to her.

Blogger FUBARwest May 14, 2019 9:26 AM  

The feminists are gonna be in an uproar once it clicks that Danny is the poster child for what happens when a woman doesn't have kids.

D&D are terrible storytellers and clearly did not care about finishing strong. However considering the "proper" ending the series was building up to was the whitewalkers coming down south and killing everyone along the way they had to come up with something else. Unfortunately this is what we got.

GRRM still takes some of the blame for setting up his story with such a nihilistic end. Maybe the series ending was a test run for him to see how the audience reacts to one ending so he can go ahead and do what he wanted all along.

Blogger FUBARwest May 14, 2019 9:29 AM  

"I'm still completely puzzled by the decision to wrap up complex story arcs built up over seven years in just six episodes..."

The most charitable interpretation is the writers are tired of writing and running this show and wanted to wrap it up as quickly as possible. They have a star wars trilogy to write after all.

Blogger Matt May 14, 2019 9:31 AM  

I just want to see Jon kill Greyworm.

And pet that damn pup

Blogger Unknown May 14, 2019 9:38 AM  

Though the end result, I doubt visuals were intended as the end goal. To me, this was driven by ill conceived shock. They wrote a story that goes counter hero narrative, then kept the top priority as being unpredictable. There are so many interviews of them discussing this. This was an outcome I dismissed as being too retarded an ending to happen, so I was surprised. It was not heroic, but it was a far cry from lotr too.

Blogger pyrrhus May 14, 2019 9:41 AM  

On top of all its other flaws, this episode seemingly went on forever, repeating the same scenes of slaughter and wanton destruction over and over again, interspersed with a completely predictable fight between the two giants and futile attempts to rescue the civilians...Boring!

Blogger DBSFF May 14, 2019 10:12 AM  

If Dany's gonna do that fine, it was pretty clear she would do something like it, but at least have it make sense. To have her start nuking civilians straight off after a surrender instead of going first for the red keep just came off like they had a plot point they needed to get to and ignored even minimal attempts to make it realistic. A lot of that going on.

Blogger riffer73 May 14, 2019 10:18 AM  

They lost me at "The Battle of the Bastards".

That being said, I liked the Daenerys burning up everything. It didn't make much sense - she'll have to find a new place to put the Iron Throne :). It just reminded me of the "Harrying of the North" or maybe Edwards siege of Romorantin.

Blogger David Ray Milton May 14, 2019 10:27 AM  

The episode was a great disappointment at the end of what has been the worst season of GOT. Completely agree about the visuals driving the story. The directors have wasted two-long episodes giving us horrible battle scenes instead of giving the audience satisfying conclusions to the narratives of certain characters, perhaps with the exception of Theon and to a lesser extent the Hound/Mountain. And what the hell has happened to Tyrion? He was the character that was in many ways driving the entire story forward and in the last two seasons has turned into a clueless idiot who has a blind loyalty to a queen who has never done anything competently. Same criticism of Jon’s loyalty and add in a childish love element that doesn’t belong with his more principled character.

However, the thing I couldn’t get over while watching the episode was how dragon fire seemed to make everything explode, including city walls! I know they had already introduced this characteristic before, but it made the whole episode unwatchable. Even the visuals weren’t satisfying.

Blogger Jack Amok May 14, 2019 10:30 AM  

shouldn't there be second wave feminists pissed off about the women in GoT and TLJ being portrayed as incompetent idiots ruled by emotions that get millions of people killed because pride?

Second wave, I dunno, as long as the women can have sex with whoever (whatever) they want and get abortions on demand, the second wavers are fine with it. Third wave is all the rage these days anyway, and they don't have enough sense to realize the women screwed up.

Blogger Constantin May 14, 2019 10:36 AM  

Season 8 was the best advertisement for Arts of Dark and Light, because I am definitely buying those books to wash away the stench of this apocalyptically shitty series.

Blogger OGRE May 14, 2019 10:38 AM  

I for one have been thoroughly entertained!

The story is shit, obviously. Aside from a few neat visuals the show has been garbage since the Red Wedding. But the reactions from the 'fans' are just hilarious! The whole arc of them loving everything about the show, then making excuses for its larger mistakes, then in one single flash of dragonflame they all together come to the realization that its a giant trash fire...its all so brilliant!

My favorite part is all those 'geek' girls who named their babies Khaleesi are now faced with the realization that their child is named after a genocidal tyrant who burns peasants alive for no reason!

Blogger Blaidd May 14, 2019 10:50 AM  

He's the weakest Gamma-secret king personified.

Jon is clearly a bravo looking to all the worst gammas and women to be his leader because there are no alpha characters left. Everyone around him misconstrues his strength as a lieutenant as translating to leadership, which he doesn't want.

Blogger riffer73 May 14, 2019 10:54 AM  

I hope they make Arya "bad" next. Beta fanboys will be jumping off bridges by the hundreds :)

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 10:58 AM  

"My favorite part is all those 'geek' girls who named their babies Khaleesi are now faced with the realization that their child is named after a genocidal tyrant who burns peasants alive for no reason! "

they are deep in denial and their rationalization hamster is on overdrive

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 10:59 AM  

"I hope they make Arya "bad" next. Beta fanboys will be jumping off bridges by the hundreds :)"

there is only one episode left. there is really no way to make arya go heel. what... have her kill jon? kill sansa? how would that even work?

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 11:01 AM  

" To have her start nuking civilians straight off after a surrender instead of going first for the red keep just came off like they had a plot point they needed to get to and ignored even minimal attempts to make it realistic"

they foreshadowed it big time. "all I have is fear"

Blogger Max Boivin May 14, 2019 11:15 AM  

The writing of this show has gone so bad, it almost feels like they are actively trying to ruin it. Having something better wouldn't be that hard.

Even without re-engineering everything from before the long-night, the should could still have had some satisfying conclusions.

Daenerys should have died in the long night with her two dragons, fighting against the night King and his zombie dragon. The night king still makes it to Bran, while this one is warging.
This is not from me, but I like the idea: Bran warged in the past, into the dude that was about to be turned into the night king, trying to tell the children of the forest not to do it. The night king knows Bran will do this and he is waiting for that moment to kill Bran in the present, trapping him in the body of the man about to be turned, granting his power to the night king. This gives a motivation for the night king to be obsessed with killing Bran. It also gives a twist as to why the children of the forest created the night king; they didn't plan in the guy being so powerful since they didn't plan on him having the spirit of a green seer in it.

After Bran is dead, John manage to show up and get his duel with the night king. He is probably over powered but somebody else shows up to hinder the night king and allow John to overcome. Hell, they can even let Arya stab the night king in the back as he is about to deliver a death blow to John (although, it ruined the prophecy of Azor Ahai).

Once the battle is over, John now has a place to be the ruler, there is no conflict with Daenerys. They take an episode to lick their wounds, cry their losses, celebrate their victory, etc. John wants nothing to do with the Iron throne, he wants to end his day in Winterfell, letting Sansa rules over it. At the end of the episode, we learn that Cersei is marching her army towards them, forcing John to lead the remaining men and face the Queen.

Maybe you can have Cersei only send part of her army up North, knowing that the dragons and a big part of the army is dead. You can then have an episode featuring the critical battle in the Neck or something and then the finale when they finally march upon King's Landing. This lat episode is not battle heavy. Cersei is beheaded (by a crying Jamie? solving the Valenquar prophecy), John takes the throne and the show is done.

There is still shock in having Bran being linked to the night king (and die) and in Daenerys dying (and her death feels like a noble sacrifice), there is more motivation for the characters, characters don't have to act like morons and there is a satisfying resolution.

And I'm sure a good writers could do even better!

Blogger buzzardist May 14, 2019 11:31 AM  

The whole season has been a train wreck. Even stretching into last season, too much of the story now seems driven by a preconceived ending. "We have to finish at this point, and so what do we have to make happen to get there?" The pacing is terrible. Everything is rushing toward an inevitable conclusion. Story arcs need to wrap up in some way for a lot of characters, and too often it's easiest just to kill them off. It doesn't really matter who characters are, what they've done before, or what they could be capable of doing to alter the course of events. The die is cast, and they're all mere pawns for the inevitable plot ending. Every action and reaction is a function of that ending. Characters are no longer free to be themselves.

The dialogue, for the most part, isn't horribly written, but it's simply bad storytelling.

The battles have turned absurd in the incessant drive toward the conclusion. Sending the Dothraki riders on a suicide charge against the Night King's army? Why? And how is it that Dothraki are still alive in fairly large numbers to fight at King's Landing when we plainly saw all of their lights extinguished in that first wave at Winterfell? And the nonsense with Danerys swooping out of the sun to attack the Iron Fleet? Yes, coming out of the sun against one ship is possible, but for a fleet spread out over a large area, not to mention the scorpions on the city walls? The dragon would not have been in the sun for most of them. They could have gotten off multiple accurate shots. But, no, the story's conclusion needs Danerys to destroy King's Landing, and so she magically comes out of the sun from every perspective.

And Cersei is the person who bombed the Great Sept and had her dead champion resurrected to keep guarding her. She has no poison pill or trap set up in King's Landing that will trip up Danerys, even if the scorpions fail? No time for complications. No time to spend on Cersei deliberating how to win. The show is running out of time. Gotta rush to the end of the plot.

Other characters are turning into mushed nonsense, too. Euron is a good example. Should the last we see of him be Danerys torching his ship? Lost, presumed dead, or at least doesn't matter to the story anymore? Except that he slept with Cersei, so there's still that plot point to wrap up, so let's have him swim ashore and meet Jaime, who just happens to be in the exact same cove at that moment (how convenient!). So have him fight with Jaime after uttering an "I banged your sister" line, and then he's out of the way. (Also, no other Iron-born sailors swimming ashore with Euron--how convenient!) But why have Jaime and Euron fight? Euron is a savvy survivor who seizes his moments to grab power. Why risk battle with Jaime now when it would gain him nothing? Why not both try to save Cersei? Yes, Euron is vain, but he would never have seized control of the Iron Fleet if he were this irrationally stupid. Why not survive to try to get back to the Iron Islands and rebuild power?

And however good Jaime Lannister once was with a sword, he's still one-handed and fighting with his off-hand. Euron shouldn't have much trouble killing Jaime, especially with no tricks involved. But, no, we need a dramatic fight, so that's what we get. Never mind that Jaime is mortally wounded...twice. He still gets up again and fights on as if barely scratched. His reunion with Cersei awaits!

Deaths in Westeros were shocking and entertaining when they were a surprise. We expected mercy for Ned Stark, and it wasn't given. We weren't expecting the Red Wedding, and it happened. We didn't expect Joffrey to suddenly keel over from poison, but he did. Now? The deaths are too predictable and utterly pointless.

Blogger Dr Caveman May 14, 2019 11:36 AM  

Shit as S08 is, I rather like all the lefties having to watch the final episode demonstrate what happens when you import large numbers of foreigners to solve your country's problems

Blogger Haus frau May 14, 2019 11:44 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buzzardist May 14, 2019 12:02 PM  

@32

Nope, no Tyrion and Sansa. Danerys will kill Tyrion because he freed Jaime. Arya will already have put Danerys on her list and try to assassinate her, but Arya will fail and be killed. (Or maybe she'll keep riding that white horse all the way to Storm's End and become Lady Baratheon after all? Like you said, who cares anymore? She fulfilled her function in killing the Night King and failed to get revenge on Cersei, so what's her fate really matter anymore?) Instead, Jon will kill Danerys, even as he utters, "I loved you," because he can't stomach the mad destruction she rained down on King's Landing. Jon will then take the Black and go back to the Wall, which was set up when he and Tormund parted at Winterfell.

Who wins the Game of Thones? No one, really. If you were playing the game, you lost, and you're dead. There is no Iron Throne anymore, so maybe the kingdoms will split up again? Or maybe they'll give the new throne to someone who completely doesn't care and doesn't matter? I don't really know who will be left to "give" a throne since all the centers of power in Westeros are effectively dead--Targaryens, dead; Lannisters, dead; Tyrells, dead; Martells, dead; Arryns, dead; Greyjoys, dead, except for butch queen Yara; Tullys, dead; Baratheons, dead, except for a bastard who was legitimized by a soon-to-be-mad queen. Maybe power shifts to Old Town, to a family we've never heard of? Oh...wait, the Starks! Some of them are still alive! I'll not be a half bit surprised if they give the throne to Bran. Ned Stark wins after all! How wonderful to have a wise, non-warring, non-vindictive leader on the throne!

Blogger OGRE May 14, 2019 12:21 PM  

@53 Theres also Tyrion as heir through the Lannister line; although the crown should never have passed to Cersei via her children as royal succession doesn't jump across lineage. The books strongly suggest that Tyrion is the son of Joanna Lannister (Tywin's wife) and the Mad King (Dany's father), which would make him the oldest living male son of a Targaryen King; but the show has not even hinted at that so I suppose it must be a red herring of some sort. The prophecies also spoke of three heads to the dragon, Dany and Jon being the obvious first two and Tyrion being the likely third; but thats been tossed too. My take has always been that Tyrion would land the throne in the end only to turn Westeros into some egalitarian elective republic, but Sansa is becoming a more likely possibility simply because shes the grrl whose suffered the most, which is the true measure of worth.

Blogger Ranger May 14, 2019 1:00 PM  

As I had only read the books and not seen the series until right befpre season 8 (when I watched seasons 6 and 7), I was never under any doubts that Daenerys was evil. I suppose it is harder to give a pussy pass to a book character than to a nice-looking Hollywood actress. I suppose it also shows why Varys, being an eunuch, didnt give her a pussy pass either, unlike Tyrion and Jon.

With that said, her actions in this episode were as rational aa Cersei's decision to blow up her enemies, and in keeping with her character.

The scene with Jon is not to establish the scorned woman trope, but to make clear the marriage solution (the only one that would allow her to have a peaceful reign without being considered a tyrant) was out of the picture. That's the meaning of the phrase "let it be fear".Of course, if Jon was not a spineless lame ass, proper answer would be "Westeros has known enough fear. I, Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar Targaryen, legitimate ruler of the 7 Kingdoms, condemn you to death for the murder of our beloved and loyal servant, Lord Varyus" *beheads Daenerys, millions of people saved*.

If Danny had not started the massacre and all the soldiers started celebrating peace, whom do you think they would have proclaimed king on the spot? Even if they didn't do it, Daenerys rule would be forever on a thread. Now it is sheer power based on dragon-fire. As she is evil, she doesn't mind.

Blogger Nate May 14, 2019 1:01 PM  

it would be awesome if bron killed Danny to make sure he gets high garden

Blogger MrNiceguy May 14, 2019 1:01 PM  

And this is different from every other day as a feminist?

Blogger Patrick May 14, 2019 1:09 PM  

Is Jon Snow a gamma wish fulfillment character, being a literal secret king at this point? Also, is Robert Baratheon what can happen when a sigma assumes a leadership role?

Blogger justaguy May 14, 2019 1:15 PM  

I think the writers missed a fun point from the books-- the most revered mercenary company was lead and maintained to help Dany back on the throne. A great place for a betrayal, especially if they were inside the walls where they belonged. Outside the wall they were way to vulnerable to besieging artillery or horse archers (never really saw this effective tactic).

But l guess they didn't have time for the lead up on the mercenaries as was done in the books. Could have been quick, some lines and queries by Varys. That could be how one side of scorpions were taken down, allowing Dany to destroy others instead of the mad woman magic-- this time the scorpions don't kill dragons, only last time.

Blogger Garuna May 14, 2019 2:32 PM  

It's amazing how they've managed to piss off literally every section of their fanbase. Even SJWs and right-wing shitlords are united in their understanding that the show fucking sucks now.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 14, 2019 2:45 PM  

Also, is Robert Baratheon what can happen when a sigma assumes a leadership role?

@58 Patrick
If the series is overloaded with Gammas writing the script, then absolutely not. They're bad enough as it is when they attempt to depict Alphas.

Blogger tublecane May 14, 2019 2:56 PM  

Funny to see people publicly acknowledging what those paying attention knew since season Five. The people in charge didn't know what they were doing and had at most only a rough outline. Without dialogue and plots written for them, they fell back on making silent movies with their favorite actors' faces.

It would be one thing if the show were moving pieces across the continent, ignoring the political realities they had previously set up (who's running the Stormlands? I dunno. Hey you, go run the Stormlands), and jiggering with the power levels of opponents to justify the story they want to tell at the moment. As an example of the latter, the rockstar pirate character has got to be the greatest warrior in the history of the world. He's destroyed the Dragon Queen's fleet three times, and his ships are armed with balistas with the accuracy and destructive power of a contemporary battleship. Then suddenly last episode he just sits there while the dragon destroys his ships in two seconds. Also, despite possessing sea superiority he allows an enemy army to land right next to the capital.

Those would be excusable so long as the show adhered to the Rule of Awesome and the Rule of Drama. Maybe you like the spectacle of a dragon burning a Medieval city, though it fails dramatically due to the botched build-up of the Dragon Queen's decent into madness. I enjoy seeing the Hound fight Frankenstein's Monster, though it has little to no connection to the rest of the story. "Fan-service," as they call it.

The main problem is that the show indulges in all this nonsense in the service of nothing worthwhile. At least not yet. Largely because they went in for the Star Warsian "subversion of expectation." Great tension had been built up between Jon Snow and the head Ice Demon , then they put a zombie dragon in his way and his little sister-cousin teleported behind him and took him out with a single blow. That was a storyline started in the first scene of the entire show taken care of, in an episode so dark no one could see what was happening.

With something like the Red Wedding, you know it's going to happen before it happens, though you don't know exactly what. Then it happens and you're surprised. Then you look back and realize it was inevitable, given the circumstances and the characters' decisions. Events on the show now just kinda happen.

Blogger Aeroschmidt May 14, 2019 3:12 PM  

I am disappointed the zombies didn't win. It would have made a much more fitting ending. Everyone could die.

Blogger Patrick May 14, 2019 3:51 PM  

That makes sense, and having read Vox's comments on gammas trying to understand sigmas, I should have realized it.

Blogger Jay in DC May 14, 2019 3:52 PM  

A little Off Topic but- Unsurprisingly, you are one of the only people I have seen in recent memory use this word "Penultimate" in a proper context in a LONG time.

Certain words have 'morphed' in the past few years to match the precipitous IQ drop in the West and general stupefaction of people at large.

Penultimate now means Ultimate. This is widespread even among journalists and at major news outlets. A few decades of retards teaching other retards English and improper grammar will do that.

Methodology now means Method. Methodology is the study or theory of a particular method. In almost all instances you see it today it is now being replaced as method especially in the corporate world. Go look at any job description for some corporate drone bug man. "Be familiar with our methodology for delivering results!" Uhh, you mean method retard? This is incredibly widespread and pretty much everywhere.

Problematic. This is an SJW / NPC favorite. What they mean is 'a problem' but it has been turned into this over-used word salad stupidity and this word too is now becoming very mainstream I see it in major news outlets (which all lean left of course). So the retards from the lib indoctrination centers (college / uni) have taken their stupid ass word and moved it into the newsrooms and journalism desks at large.

"SJWs, by their nature, are problematic." What you mean dim bulb is that "SJWs, by their nature, are a problem." If they were less of a problem would they be problem manual instead of problematic?

From UrbanDictionary re: problematic ""A corporate-academic weasel word used mainly by people who sense that something may be oppressive, but don't want to do any actual thinking about what the problem is or why it exists. Also frequently used in progressive political settings among White People of a Certain Education to avoid using herd-frightening words like "racist" or "sexist.""

Blogger Nate73 May 14, 2019 4:10 PM  

Tyrion is the ultimate gamma protagonist, and his moralizing about sparing the people of King's Landing rang hollow. He literally gave a speech at his trial where he said he wished he had enough poison to kill them all. He certainly wouldn't say that line about the life of one dwarf compared to the lives of the people in the city.

Blogger Lovekraft May 14, 2019 4:39 PM  

Put in the context of the Age of Political Correctness, Affirmative Action, minority worship, it's pretty much assumed that writing is going to take a back-seat to other interests such as representation, corrupt history, moar representation!!!.

It hinders free expression and creates resentment and power-plays. No one wants to stick their neck out and are about getting the next level in their careers. When I first saw the women of GOT get painted up for the glitter circuit, I just saw more bland Hollywood phonies.

Blogger Mandos May 14, 2019 5:22 PM  

Being halfway through A Throne of Bones I can confirm: you can do much better. I didn't plan to get into it at the same time as this ludicrous final season of GoT, but I have to say it is a most welcome balance.

Now as you acknowledge yourself in the comments, this is far below GRRM's skills. One can only assume perceiving his royalties on the story's rights has relegated him to a role of complimentary senior advisor to the two clowns who chain senseless visual effects like the one-trick ponies they are. They seem more interested in congratulating themselves in Inside the Episode.

One common thread among all these developments is that pretty much all male characters have had their arc butchered in a particularly ugly fashion. Jon is a lost puppy, Tyrion utterly useless and deprived from his wits, Jaime's end was particularly anti-climactic, as was that of his enemy Euron. Basically they have been thrown under the bus because indeed nobody could give a damn in the creative team, as they were all too busy creating spectacular scenes featuring empowered grrls.

But even girls aren't spared: Daenerys's transformation into an eventual arch-villain, while having some degree of justification immediately withdraws all purpose from Cersei, ruining the end of her arc as well.

Progressivism is such a mental disease that its victims can't produce a consistent story, even when it is 80% written already and supported with tens of millions of production budget. Impressive.

Blogger megabar May 14, 2019 5:52 PM  

I think a good surprise takes one of two forms:

a) You know it's coming, but aren't sure exactly how it'll turn out. So there's suspense. For example, imagine after Rhaegal dies, Dany discusses with her council, and they have reason to believe Drogon is tougher and can survive a scorpion hit -- and that's backed by a prior scene or two that demonstrates his superior toughness over his brothers. And so when Dany swoops in, and the scorpions take aim, you know he's going to be hit, you just don't know if it'll kill him. And no matter what actually happens, you'll find it plausible. Very simple, but much more satisfying than "well, they hit them that time, but this time they miss."

b) You didn't see it coming, but it retrospect it makes perfect sense. For me, this was Dany's heel turn. I understand others did see it coming. But I didn't -- at least not to the extent that happened. But in hindsight, it's very obvious that this was possible. For 8 seasons she needed to be tempered, her background as a Targaryen makes insanity very plausible, and S8 is a catastrophe for her on a personal level, providing the nudge to madness.

As another example, I think another good surprise would've been for Arya to get into trouble before Clegane Bowl, and the Hound abandons revenge to help her, building on the fact that she's one of things in the world that he does care about -- which ends up saving him.


Blogger Beardy Bear May 14, 2019 6:26 PM  

They allegedly got rid of ghost because he's tough to add to battles visually. Then they proceeded to add gratuitous visual effects in every other area.

There are limited resources and all, but clearly they had horrible priorities.

Then again, maybe not. If Jon dies in the last episode, the book hinted he'd return to his wolf via warging. If ghost is in the north, he could end up with the wildlings all his days after all.

Blogger Haus frau May 14, 2019 6:48 PM  

Jon should have killed Dany and married Sansa. Oh well.

Blogger Geir Balderson May 14, 2019 7:27 PM  

I just hope that Hotpie survives it all. He is my favorite character on the show. I think his butter melted in the crust is absolute magic. I place his name in the top tier for the Iron Throne!

Blogger tublecane May 14, 2019 7:36 PM  

@69- There was clearly something wrong with the Dragon Queen. I don't mean her occasional unnecessary cruelty, pathological self-righteousness, or delusions of grandeur. It's the way she carries herself, her facial expressions. If you saw someone doing it in real life, you'd think she was a little nuts. Sometimes it looks like the mention of violence is giving her pleasure down there. Other times she's walking through a crowd being praised without someone whispering in her ear that she's mortal, and you think she might mistake herself for a goddess.

She's weird, in short. Contrast that with Jon, who's down-to-earth and takes every promotion as an unwanted burden. He might be mentally ill as well, considering the fact that he's twice attempted suicide during battles (charging at an entire army alone, and yelling at a dragon in its face). But otherwise he's recognizably human.

Blogger tublecane May 14, 2019 7:50 PM  

@70- People would be happy if they replaced CGI Ghost with a Malamute. Or if they cut from CGI Ghost to a close-up of Jon's hand on a stuffed animal. Whatever it takes for a sign of affection from master to pet.

It boggles my mind that they could go so far out of their way to deliver a duel between the Cleganes (who should both be dead already), but they couldn't see how much Ghost meant to people. Or maybe they saw and this was an up-yours.

Blogger lowercaseb May 14, 2019 10:38 PM  

someone posted this comment on YouTube. I thought it summed up everything quite succinctly:

Game of Thrones Patch 8.05 notes:

- Scorpions now have -50% hit rating
- Iron Fleet may now only fire one bolt at a time
- Buildings and structures now take 500% more dragonfire damage. (Developers notes: We noticed that dragonfire was ineffective against buildings and structures in previous patches (8.03) for the Army of the Dead faction, to a point where a single Hero class could hide behind a rock and take zero damage. We believe this hotfix will address future dragonfire siege damage against buildings)
- Daenerys Hero class and infantry for Targaryen faction have had their sanity reduce by 100% and will often attack random enemy and neutral units
- Arya hero class health increased by 400%
- Northmen get frenzy after seeing dragon attack, in frenzy, incapable to obey king in the north.
- Golden company : afk

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 14, 2019 10:40 PM  

S7 Daenerys: "I didn't come here to burn your towns and kill you - that's Cersei."
S8 Daenerys: "I'm going to literally killed every person in King's Landing EXCEPT for Cersei."

Expectations subverted, I guess. Apparently all it took to make Daenerys an evil monster was a) nephew refusing to bang and b) she's not the most popular and liked person in Westeros :(

What a horrible character. Jon has been a completely spineless wimp this season too. Varys turned into a massive idiot just so they could easily get rid of him. The writers have no idea what to do with Bran so they're mostly trying to pretend he doesn't exist. Jaime's character arc made a last minute swerve so hard it turned into a circle. Arya decided that the person she wanted to kill most in the world - the hatred and need for revenge so strong that it literally kept her alive and made her into the weapon she is - wasn't worth killing because of a last minute motivational speech. Euron was just as terrible of a character as he's always been but it was still baffling for him to wash ashore and randomly decide he wants to fight Jaime to the death. CLEGANEBOWL was a big letdown. At least I got to see the Mountain brickarys Qyburn, that was hilarious. Really the whole of the burning of King's Landing struck me as funny. It was just too silly and unbelievable.

Daenerys' reasoning was that she would have to rule by fear. But in what world does that mean she needs to burn all of King's Landing to the ground? She pretty much effortlessly destroyed the Lannister forces, the Iron fleet, and the Golden Company - and only with one dragon. I'd say that people would have been plenty afraid if she had just executed Cersei publicly via Drogon and left it at that.

I have the nagging feeling that maybe D&D felt bad for Rian Johnson and are trying to take some of the heat off of him by being even worse. They definitely "The Last Jedi"'d the hell out of Game of Thrones.

Blogger Refuse to buy overpriced May 14, 2019 10:44 PM  

"Some viewers complained that the way Dany abandoned her principles (everything she’d ever stood for) and descended into butchery was irrational or rash. In fact if anything it was too predictable"

What an absurd critique. Dany's did't abandon her principles for butchery. Butchery IS her principles. She has always been vengeful and cruel, from the very first season - she practically orgasms with glee when Khal Drogo gives a speech promising to murder rape and enslave Westeros, she watches with cool satisfaction as Drogo tortures and murders her brother, and she burns alive the sorceress who fails to save Drogo's life, gloating in advance about her impending screams of pain. Through 8 seasons she never gave any of her captives a quick clean death - they were all burned alive, entombed alive, or crucified.

"Jaime’s death in Cersei’s arms seems like a fitting payoff for all his awful behavior with her in the early going of the series, but it completely ignores all his character development over eight seasons"

Another absurd critique. Character development? Jamie is the most consistent, unchanged character on the show. From the first episode to the last, he is a man defined primarily by his love for his family - especially for his sister, his children, his father, and his brother. No matter how they provoke him, he never takes any action designed to hurt any of them, not so much as a single cruel word. Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion all hate each other, but Jamie loves them all, unconditionally. (It is a similar story with his extended family; of all his deeds, the one that truly haunts him was the killing of a distant cousin during an escape attempt.) On the flip side, he is willing to commit crimes to protect his family; but unlike most other major characters, he has no need for vengeance. Powerful though he is, it never even crosses his mind to seek vengeance against the powerless nobody who stole his hand. When he captures the woman who poisoned his son, he takes extraordinary care to execute her in the most painless, dignified manner possible. Enthusiasm for the ideals of knighthood is an important secondary characteristic, equally consistent throughout the entire story, from his duel with Ned Stark to his attraction for Brienne. Misfortune and suffering wear away his smug, cocky exterior, but this isn't "character development". The man underneath remained unchanged, and there was never any chance that man would abandon his sister in her hour of need, much less join her enemies.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction May 15, 2019 1:40 AM  

Another absurd critique. Character development? Jamie is the most consistent, unchanged character on the show.

What? No, his story was very much about finding the path towards knightly virtue. In season 7 he abandoned Cersei when he discovered her promise of aid for the fight against the white walkers was a self serving lie. Don't forget his dismay and disgust at Cersei's apparent disinterest in grieving over their youngest sons suicide, and more importantly, him being driven to suicide by Cersei's action.


There would have been poetry with Jamie's final act be slaying Cersei in attempts to save the people of King's Landing for a variety of reasons.

Blogger OGRE May 15, 2019 1:30 PM  

@78 good points. Even taking the mess of a setup to the last episode, much greater tension could have been added by letting this come full circle, rather than wasting time with Euron fighting Jamie under contrived circumstances. Imagine Jamie reaching Cersei after the Clegane's begin to fight when she is all alone, but before the bells ring and Dany begins her slaughtering of innocents. Jamie tries to reason with Cersei that its all over, come away with me just the two of us. Cersei refuses for whatever reason and Jamie knows he has to kill her in order to save the city, so he does. Then the bells ring out, and Dany goes Hiroshima all over everyone. But now she does it after Cersei is dead, and this is revealed in the aftermath that Dany destroyed the city not only after the defenders surrendered but also after Cersei had died.
I really hate myself for thinking on this crap so much.

Blogger Jeffrey Johnson May 15, 2019 4:21 PM  

Season 8 could have been saved just by adding a few character scenes that would have made the actions of all the characters make sense. The show runners wouldn't have even had to fix the battles because all battles in Game of Thrones are ridiculous and come down to who's paying attention to what's behind them and who isn't. Here's the simple scenes that would've made the season more or less work:

In the first episode have a scene where we find out that Dany is pregnant. They made so many allusions to this in season 7 that it's criminal that nothing has been done on this front.

2. In the second episode, right before the battle when Jon tells Dany about who he really is, have him offer to marry her. Have him tell her that he loves her and that he doesn't care that they are related and that she will be the one ruling the kingdom. Then have her respond that the Iron Throne is hers and she won't share it with anybody. That way we can see that she's truly power mad.

3. In episode 4 after the celebration party and Jon and Dany have their little chat and Jon leaves, have Dany start bleeding and then have the maester say that she just had a miscarriage.

4. In episode 4, in the morning after the miscarriage, have the people at Winterfell discuss what they are going to do about Lord Glover. Lord Glover was mentioned in episode 1 as having left Winterfell and abandoned them right before the big battle. Have a big discussion ensue and have the lords all agree that Jon will deal with Lord Glover while he takes the army south. They all agree that Jon is going to have to execute Lord Glover for what he did but set the scene up so that in hindsight it's obvious that Dany burned them all.

5. While Jon takes the army south, he stops at Lord Glover's castle. The place is totally trashed and destroyed. It kind of looks like the Night King did it and they mark it up as Lord Glover's people ended up joining the Army of the Dead. As they are leaving Davos finds a little girl hiding in the woods who tells them that it was the dragon who flew in and burned EVERYBODY man, woman and child. Leave things ambiguous between whether or not it was the Night King or Dany.

6. In episode 5, after the execution of Varys, on their way to the battle Jon, Davos and Tyrion talk and Jon says that he's having second thoughts about Dany. Have him be conflicted about his oath to her but him believing that she would be a bad queen.

7. In episode 5 during the battle, show Jamie rushing to get into the castle. However instead of him rushing to Cersei, he runs to the bell tower. Show Jaime be the one to start ringing the bells. This is consistent with Jaime because previously he saved the people of the city and underneath it all he tries to do the right thing when the chips are down.

Adding those 7 simple scenes would've made the actions of the characters in season 8 make sense. Also it wouldn't have added too much time to the season, there's maybe 25 minutes of scenes that needed to be added. This stuff is pretty basic stuff and not hard to figure out. All of the stuff has been mentioned previously on the show.

Why did they mention Lord Glover in episode 1? Why bother mentioning some nothing character if they aren't going to use his betrayal later on? Why make constant references to children in reference to Jon and Dany in season 7 if they aren't going to follow up on it? They needed an intermediary step between Dany burning "bad people" and her suddenly burning down King's Landing. You can't just have her go from being perceived as a "good guy" to being a total monster. You need to show something that shows that she has great evil inside her trying to get out. This stuff is all drama writing 101 stuff. It's criminal that the Game of Thrones people failed it so badly.

Blogger rcocean May 15, 2019 10:13 PM  

The easiest way to end a novel or story is with everyone getting killed off. Sometimes, it makes sense. For example, Shakespeare had to end his plays within a certain time, so everyone dies in Hamlet (500 y/o spoiler alert). But when you have an Eight Season TV series, you should be able to do better.

Blogger rcocean May 15, 2019 10:17 PM  

Has Vox ever written about how Chickified GoT is? You have 3 Chicks(including one who's a super-fighting Teenage chick) playing the Game of Thrones. Plus, a dwarf. John Snow is the only straight white male who's allowed to be Hero.

Blogger rcocean May 15, 2019 10:19 PM  

Final Comment. I love Vox's comment about the dwarf being George R.R. Martin's stand-in. Wow, it all makes sense now. Especially the emphasis on Tyrian's bathroom habits and food intake in the last novel.

Blogger GammaCatch May 17, 2019 6:58 PM  

Martin's objections are technical. Make no mistake, he agrees with the philosophy behind it. In the show, Daenerys is sweet, but sharp and angry, but still human. In GoT (only read the first one, as named) she's a plane faced robot that sees visions and has emotional problems. And to both they are Subverted. Because, for The Leftist: Dramatic Irony and conclusions that are the opposite of what adds up (remember 2+2 = 5 in their world) are the HIGHEST form of art. In both cases: Feminism to remove the Humanity, twists to erase all that added up the narrative until X point.


I ASSURE YOU, 100% that, what is it, Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring? Will SUBVERT AND INSULT in the same way. Of course not in scenario, but in circumstance. because, in the end, Subversion is the goal of Martin and R&R.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts