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Tuesday, June 11, 2019

A collection of curious anomalies

Ron Unz observes an intriguing anomaly in his review of a Jewish historian's account of anti-semitism in US military intelligence:
Oliver’s peremptory dismissal of the standard Holocaust narrative led me to take a closer look at the treatment of the same topic in Bendersky’s book, and I noticed something quite odd. As discussed above, his exhaustive research in official files and personal archives conclusively established that during World War II a very considerable fraction of all our Military Intelligence officers and top generals were vehemently hostile to Jewish organizations and also held beliefs that today would be regarded as utterly delusional. The author’s academic specialty is Holocaust studies, so it is hardly surprising that his longest chapter focused on that particular subject, bearing the title “Officers and the Holocaust, 1940-1945.” But a close examination of the contents raises some troubling questions.

Across more than sixty pages, Bendersky provides hundreds of direct quotes, mostly from the same officers who are the subject of the rest of his book. But after carefully reading the chapter twice, I was unable to find a single one of those statements referring to the massive slaughter of Jews that constitutes what we commonly call the Holocaust, nor to any of its central elements, such as the existence of death camps or gas chambers.

The forty page chapter that follows focuses on the plight of the Jewish “survivors” in post-war Europe, and the same utter silence applies. Bendersky is disgusted by the cruel sentiments expressed by these American military men towards the Jewish former camp inmates, and he frequently quotes them characterizing the latter as thieves, liars, and criminals; but the officers seem strangely unaware that those unfortunate souls had only just barely escaped an organized mass extermination campaign that had so recently claimed the lives of the vast majority of their fellows. Numerous statements and quotes regarding Jewish extermination are provided, but all of these come from various Jewish activists and organizations, while there is nothing but silence from all of the military officers themselves.

Bendersky’s ten years of archival research brought to light personal letters and memoirs of military officers written decades after the end of the war, and in both those chapters he freely quotes from these invaluable materials, sometimes including private remarks from the late 1970s, long after the Holocaust had become a major topic in American public life. Yet not a single statement of sadness, regret, or horror is provided. Thus, a prominent Holocaust historian spends a decade researching a book about the private views of our military officers towards Jews and Jewish topics, but the one hundred pages he devotes to the Holocaust and its immediate aftermath contains not a single directly-relevant quote from those individuals, which is simply astonishing. A yawning chasm seems to exist at the center of his lengthy historical volume, or put another way, a particular barking dog is quite deafening in its silence.

I am not an archival researcher and have no interest in reviewing the many tens of thousands of pages of source material located at dozens of repositories across the country that Bendersky so diligently examined while producing his important book. Perhaps during their entire wartime activity and also the decades of their later lives, not a single one of the hundred-odd important military officers who were the focus of his investigation ever once broached the subject of the Holocaust or the slaughter of Jews during World War II. But I think there is another distinct possibly.

As mentioned earlier, Beaty spent his war years carefully reviewing the sum-total of all incoming intelligence information each day and then producing an official digest for distribution to the White House and our other top leaders. And in his 1951 book, published just a few years after the end of fighting, he dismissed the supposed Holocaust as a ridiculous wartime concoction by dishonest Jewish and Communist propagandists that had no basis in reality. Soon afterward, Beaty’s book was fully endorsed and promoted by many of our leading World War II generals, including those who were subjects of Bendersky’s archival research. And although the ADL and various other Jewish organizations fiercely denounced Beaty, there is no sign that they ever challenged his absolutely explicit “Holocaust denial.”

I suspect that Bendersky gradually discovered that such “Holocaust denial” was remarkably common in the private papers of many of his Military Intelligence officers and top generals, which presented him with a serious dilemma. If only one or two of those individuals had expressed such sentiments, their shocking statements could be cited as further evidence of their delusional anti-Semitism. But what if a substantial majority of those officers—who certainly had possessed the best knowledge of the reality of World War II—held private beliefs that were very similar to those publicly expressed by their former colleagues Beaty and Oliver? In such a situation, Bendersky may have decided that certain closed doors should remain in that state, and entirely skirted the topic.
Translation: just about everything you think you know about 20th century history is wrong.

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112 Comments:

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira June 11, 2019 8:08 AM  

The internal scream I just had, cracked my monitor.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 11, 2019 8:19 AM  

The pictures of the crappy and small crematorium at Aushwitz is pretty bad propaganda as is the Treblinka bone grinding story after half the forests of Poland would have had to been cut down to accomplish the BTU requirements of the infamous death by T-34 engine that landed Pat Buchanan in such hot water when he tried to apply logic to magic thinking myth.

Think the Jewish meltdown today is bad what happens when the POCs don't fear being bullied by the American establishment?

Blogger Rocklea Marina June 11, 2019 8:20 AM  

Lucy,you gotta lotta ovensplainin' to do.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 8:22 AM  

Hahahaha.

My paranoia has been justified. Time to add rebar.

Blogger #7139 June 11, 2019 8:22 AM  

Oh my. And this is why I read Vox Popoli. For the bad think.

Blogger Lukas Brunnor June 11, 2019 8:25 AM  

/pol/ was right again. If you only knew how bad things really are.

Blogger Robert What? June 11, 2019 8:30 AM  

Growing up in the United States (I'm close to sixty) I now know that everything they taught us about the Holocaust were lies.

Blogger Stilicho June 11, 2019 8:36 AM  

Did six million jews die across Europe during WWII? Possibly. They tended to be concentrated in the areas where the conflict and death tolls (including disease, famine,etc.) were the worst (Germany and eastern europe). Did some die in camps? Certainly. Disease, malnutrition, etc. Undoubtedly took a big toll (as it does in warfare where disease, famine, etc. Typically have a higher death count than combat). Did six million die in the camps? Preposterous. The Jews who push this lie cannot prove it, cannot even provide credible support, so they shout down any logical response to the lie.

If the Jews actually wanted everyone, everywhere to stop treating them as a fifth column, they would stop acting as a fifth column everywhere more than 3 of them live. I see no signs of that happening, but who knows, the Sun may rise in the west tomorrow.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 8:39 AM  

Over/under that the stories about the chosen being put in ovens were backlash against descriptions of the Slav trader... I mean witch being killed in her own oven in the tale of Hansel and Gretel?

Yes, Slav.

Blogger Wazdakka June 11, 2019 8:43 AM  

Could their be an opening for military and political historians to honestly examine and publish some books which challenge long held beliefs.
Once the armour of lies is breached I predict interesting times in university historical lectures.

Blogger Twisted Root June 11, 2019 8:46 AM  

Had they the opportunity would the losers of WWII written about allied atrocities particularly around the end of the war?

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 11, 2019 8:52 AM  

/pol/ was right again.

Always. I haven't done a deep dive into this topic myself, but you don't have to do that to know there are big problems with the official narrative.

Blogger Solon June 11, 2019 8:58 AM  

I sometimes wonder why (((they))) haven't shut down /pol/ yet.

I mean, the only reason I can think of is that it acts like a sort of containment board. If they shut down JUST /pol/, there'd be a /pol2/, /pol3/, ad infinitum within the hour.

They'd have to shut down all of infinite Chan. And then all the /pol/aks would just migrate to 4chan, 9chan, and all over the place. It'd be like swatting a hornet's nest, I imagine, containment would be irrevocably breached.

There's just gotta be some Chosen out there who wake up at night in a cold sweat, knowing that, eventually, /pol/'s containment will be breached and the internet is going to explode with the light of truth about Jewish perfidy.

They're standing on an active landmine. One false move and it blows them all to hell. There'll be an actual Holocaust, not just make-believe stories.

And they'll have earned it for their lies.

The Lord says "vengeance is mine," but I like to imagine He means in eternity. I hope He won't mind if us mere mortals hasten His judgement on (((them))) just a little bit. (In Minecraft, of course. Hi, Feds!)

Blogger Miguel June 11, 2019 8:59 AM  

Neo-Pals are so tied up in their delusion that they are, now, attacking Poland, the very country that can totally dismantle the oficial holocaust narrative beyond recovery.

Blogger Andrew Brown June 11, 2019 9:00 AM  

Brilliant article Vox, many thanks.

It was only a few months ago I watched Europa the Last Battle part 8 (part that covers the Holocaust), although I don't think everything it claims is true, the evidence they present is mind blowing.
From the "6 million Jews" religious mantra. Auschwitz having a hospital, dentist, football team, orchestra, bakery. No evidence HCN was used or Zyklon B can kill. Soviets constructing a fake gas chamber out of a bomb shelter. The impossibility of the camps being able to kill 6 million. There's much more, definitely worth watching.

Blogger Crush Limbraw June 11, 2019 9:03 AM  

I read that piece by Unz last night - it's a keeper for my library.
Your 'translation' of our knowledge of the 20th century is a perfect lead.
Thanks, Vox!

Blogger Steve Samson June 11, 2019 9:05 AM  

"
I am not an archival researcher and have no interest in reviewing the many tens of thousands of pages of source material"

I have watched quite a few lectures by someone who is, quite an engaging speaker too, name's on the tip of my tongue...

Blogger CarpeOro June 11, 2019 9:09 AM  

There was a time when I thought "1984" was just a fictional idea of a world we had avoided. Now I realize that it was an accurate prediction where the names have been changed, but we are living it. Unending war (check), private lives that are tracked at will by TPTB (check), and a society that is slowly unraveling under the weight of it all (check).

Fortunately, Orwell was an atheist so he refused to acknowledge a path away from the dystopian future - Jesus Christ. We may be living in his novel but there is always the way, the truth, and the light to lead us out.

Blogger Johnny June 11, 2019 9:42 AM  

Hey, I got it. We are part of the alliance that rescued the remaining Jews (or is alleged to having done it). Because it doesn't count because our thoughts were impure.

During the war Germany pushed the idea that the Germans were being opposed by Jewish infiltrated groups. Thus regardless of the adversary it was a war against Jews. Us talking about Jewish persecution as part of the reason for going to war would have played directing to German propaganda in a way that would not have been helpful. If I got it right, Washington made a self conscious decision to not bring up the Jewish issue, regardless. And so of course there wasn't one whole hell of a lot of talk about Jews.

The old heads we win, tails you lose. Some of these (((people))) can just be so tiresome.

Blogger D Zniger June 11, 2019 9:46 AM  

In Germany you are thrown into prison for just questioning the official number of 6 millions killed Jews in the holocaust. I still don´t know what would happen if I would postulate like Owen that 60 millions Jews were killed.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 9:48 AM  

>Over/under that the stories about the chosen being put in ovens were backlash against descriptions of the Slav trader... I mean witch being killed in her own oven in the tale of Hansel and Gretel?

>Yes, Slav.

This is a sure thing.

Blogger pyrrhus June 11, 2019 9:50 AM  

O/T Another narrative whose falsity can't be openly admitted...https://www.theburningplatform.com/2019/06/10/glacier-national-park-quietly-removes-its-gone-by-2020-signs/

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 11, 2019 9:51 AM  

The vast majority of the horror stories (gas chambers, human experimentation, etc.) of the Holocaust came from the Soviet Union.

And communists were only ever really good at lying.

Blogger Nicholas June 11, 2019 9:54 AM  

And you know who the architect of the “Holohoax” was? None other than Ike! He knew that the time would eventually come when Nazis would deny that the Holocaust had ever been carried out, and so he ordered his men to film the mountains of corpses and skeletons they found at every concentration camp they liberated.

Blogger Off The Wall June 11, 2019 10:03 AM  

Pyrrhus - That’s because people who think like us had repeatedly edited the placards with black markers.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 11, 2019 10:19 AM  

Probably the biggest lie ever told. Not just in terms of magnitude but more so in terms of repercussions.

My favorite part in researching this was learning about the supposed gas ovens: how they had no mechanism for pumping the cyanide gas in or out, how there was gas proof lighting, how the doors opened from the inside, how the same doors had inches of clearing underneath them!

Anytime fourteen countries (now fifteen, I suppose... thanks FL!) make it illegal to discuss a topic, you know the topic is worth discussing!

Blogger anorganicbear June 11, 2019 10:22 AM  

@22: That's not off-topic. I was thinking the same thing while reading the article. If they can make a significant number of people believe that the world is going to end in 10 years every 10 years due to climate change, why couldn't they do the same with 6 million in the holocaust?

In fact, the very idea that there are laws on the books preventing you from questioning the official narrative is enough to make everyone with sense question the official narrative.

What good does it do to keep pushing this story onto people nearly 100 years after the fact? The Turks denied their genocide of the Armenians, and they are doing fine. The Germans, on the other hand, are the only ones left alive that are actually hurt by the holocaust today. Why should anyone continue to believe in a narrative so harmful to the soul of the German people, even if it happened exactly like they say it happened?

Blogger PseudonymousMe June 11, 2019 10:23 AM  

No denier of anything I, noting merely that the most compelling evidence would be eye witness accounts by third-party liberators. Which is allegedly scarce to non-existent.


Did not CrowdStrike investigate?

Blogger Borsabil June 11, 2019 10:25 AM  

It's always easy to tell a narrative lie. The more (((they))) chimp out at anyone questioning it the more certain I am it's complete BS.

When I was a wee laddie I was taught in school that 4 million people, the vast majority being Jewsish, died at Auschwitz. We were also taught that the Nazis used Jewish skin to make lampshades and the fat from corpses to make soap. All these 'facts' have now been memory holed, never to be mentioned (go Google Auschwitz and try and find the 3 million revision).

Trannies are really women, CO2 causes global warming, Trump is a Russian spy, black people are just as smart as whites, 6 million died in the Holocaust, and so on. Of course they lie, the one they serve demands it from them.

Blogger Blaidd June 11, 2019 10:31 AM  

I sometimes wonder why (((they))) haven't shut down /pol/ yet.

I mean, the only reason I can think of is that it acts like a sort of containment board.


Yes, it's containment. At least that's the idea, but it doesn't really work in practice. Memes made on the chans ensure that the ideas propagate, even if at a snail's pace.

Blogger Birdman June 11, 2019 10:54 AM  

Solon wrote:
The Lord says "vengeance is mine," but I like to imagine He means in eternity. I hope He won't mind if us mere mortals hasten His judgement on (((them))) just a little bit. (In Minecraft, of course. Hi, Feds!)


LMAO why only minecraft? ;)

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 11, 2019 11:00 AM  

The Americans liberated Dachau, both the Infogalactic and Wiki entries put the death toll at 31k and the largest amount of prisoners at the end of the war as Poles with jews way behind them all.

So the pics of Americans liberating a death camp are slightly out of context, but the Holocaust is all from the time tested "Bait and Switch" con, give it a few years and the American troops will be charged as accessories to the Holocaust.

True story, years ago at FreeRepublic one of the conservative jewish posters ran the obligatory holocaust article that had pics supposedly of the real crematory at Aushwitz. It was a piece of crap and having spent an hour that day waiting for my 8lb cat to be fully cremated in a modern nat gas fueled crematory I mentioned that the article in reference was also a piece of poorly constructed crap and they could actually produce better propaganda than that.

But they always have people like "unknown" who virtue signal their willingness to be lied to and worse slandered, somehow that is a virtue. Beats me.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 11:02 AM  

I also suggest people look into the Nuremberg trials and acquittals. Some of the acquittals are pretty telling. If Paul Rostock, who headed up the medical service, was acquitted what does that say?

Blogger VD June 11, 2019 11:11 AM  

Two notes. First, don't even try to defend the obvious lies with the usual rhetoric. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Second, a dedication to history and the truth is not a signal for every Jew-hating Alt-Retard to start publicly displaying his psychological issues or attempting to "educate" everyone.

Both sides, shut up. The sane people are talking.

Blogger VD June 11, 2019 11:13 AM  

What part of "shut up" did you not understand, Colin Flaherty's Baby Momma?

No wonder no one listens to you morons.

Blogger MidnightSun June 11, 2019 11:14 AM  

What bothers me most is that while all this was or wasn't taking place, there were provable crimes on humanity going on in the USSR; From 1917 until the 1950's, millions were systematically murdered by the same group who claimed victimhood in WW2. And we hear little of these atrocities to this day! Also this 'victimhood' status gives them the license to rob countries and peoples of their entire fortunes. (And if anybody should say something about this theft or other ploys to extort money, they are thrown in jail)! Why aren't (they) paying reparations to Russia for the enormous damage done to that country? And clearly a Christian country at that time! I'll tell you why: They always have controlled the media, banking and academia and this propaganda will go on indefinitely until people realize the real culprits of our civilization and try to break up the monopolies they have on just about everything including politicians!

Blogger Jeroth June 11, 2019 11:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Borsabil June 11, 2019 11:29 AM  

@36 up to 7.5 million Christians died in the Holodomor. 2 million died in the Armenian genocide. You'll note when you Google these events, and look up the Wikipedia articles, words like disputed and uncertain are bandied about when discussing how many died and who was responsible. Of course a comparison with the Holocaust is remarkable.

The American government still refuses to recognise that the Armenian genocide even took place. I've heard tell that certain of the chosen people feel it best not to in case detracts from the Shoah.

Blogger cecilhenry June 11, 2019 11:32 AM  

There is no law anywhere on earth against underestimating the number of Ukrainians Stalin killed.

Blogger Jeroth June 11, 2019 11:33 AM  

How did the Jews win so much control of the narrative? I get that they have put a lot of effort into controlling our media, but why did we simply let them? Does it really all boil down to the mismatch of a low trust ethnic group living in a high trust culture?

Blogger Balam June 11, 2019 11:46 AM  

"Translation: just about everything you think you know about 20th century history is wrong."

The refreshing thing is that a large part of the malaise and apathy amongst younger folks will lift as the truth is being told. The "why do anything" attitude which led to people proclaiming that we were at the end of history itself is the feeling that the left/Satan/progressivism is the tip of a spear thrust inevitably thrown from a hundred years ago.

With the lies of history revealed like this it brings more chaos into the perception of history and more chaos means more people see opportunities for themselves which means more action. A good thing for those who hate the current SJW status quo. I'm reminded of the debate of how 'mythical' real figures should be presented to the public, whether we draw George Washington as a pristine Adonis or a realistic portrait with warts and poor dental hygiene and all. The only thing certain is that the more 'human' history looks the more people think, "I'm like that give or take, I can do such things!" and now people are distrusting the pristine view of historical Judeo-Holocaustianity. In short, mass deportations are looking more morally possible by the day.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 11:49 AM  

Jeroth wrote:How did the Jews win so much control of the narrative?
English class divisions are also ethnic divisions. the English nobility is to this day, ethnically distinct from the English nation, and since George I, the royalty has been even more so.
America is descended from England and inherited a great many of her maladies, most especially including the utter lack of fellow feeling between the elite and the common man. Interlopers have exploited this crack for personal and tribal gain.

Is it good for the JEws?

Blogger S. Richard June 11, 2019 12:24 PM  

The 1948 Int'l Red Cross report that said 271,000 died in the holocaust is now looking like an overstatement.

Blogger Andy in San Diego and Elsewhere June 11, 2019 12:47 PM  

This article is mind-bendingly good, not just for the Holocaust stuff but for the WW II history. You can also see the shoots of where PC/SJW-ism started and how it has bloomed today.

Blogger jeffbladerunner June 11, 2019 12:48 PM  

There were tons of other factors involved. New York money-men offering tons of dough for media conglomerates (greed?) Played a role. Like when Ted Turner sold off CNN.

Plus there was a certain type of (over-)confidence as well. Listen to the President Nixon & Rev. Graham tapes. I bet Rev. Graham thought that if we could just get more people to convert/ renew their faith everything would work out. The problem is that a demographic time-bomb was ticking and now we need a much more radical solution, like the Spanish Reconqista or maybe a military junta like the Greek Colonels.

Blogger Antony June 11, 2019 12:48 PM  

A quick - note - people very correctly note that the Ukranian Holodomor is conveniently overlooked by those in power, I just thought I'd draw attention to the other "overlooked" fact that 1.3 to 2.5 million were murdered in the Kazakhstan genocide ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333

Blogger Rattlesnake_Kid June 11, 2019 12:48 PM  

That which was whispered ear to ear in the closet will be shouted from the rooftop.

Blogger InformationMerchant June 11, 2019 12:57 PM  

There was a nice bonus in there too. Although there has been a lot of information out there for years about Pearl Harbor, this wasn't common knowledge:

"In January 1941, almost eleven months before Pearl Harbor, preparation for it began in Washington when Franklin D Roosevelt summoned the Portuguese Ambassador to the United States and, enjoining him to the utmost secrecy, asked him to inform Premier Salazar that Portugal need have no concern for the safety of Timor and her other possessions in Southeast Asia; the United States, he said, had decided to crush Japan forever by waiting until her military forces and lines of communication were stretched to the utmost and then suddenly launching an all-out war with massive attacks that Japan was not, and could not be, prepared to resist. As expected, the Portuguese Ambassador communicated the glad tidings to the head of his government, using his most secure method of communication, an enciphered code which the Portuguese doubtless imagined to be “unbreakable,” but which Roosevelt well knew had been compromised by the Japanese, who were currently reading all messages sent in it by wireless. The statement, ostensibly entrusted in “strict secrecy” to the Portuguese Ambassador, was, of course, intended for the Japanese government, and, as a matter of fact, it became certain that the trick had succeeded when the contents of the Portuguese Ambassador’s message to Salazar promptly appeared in a Japanese message enciphered by the Purple Machine. Roosevelt had only to wait for Japan to act on the “secret” information about American plans thus given her, and to order naval movements and diplomatic negotiations that would appear to the Japanese to confirm American intentions."

Even if new lies stopped being created, it'd take hundreds of years to fix the damage done to human understanding of last century. People laugh at North Korea's alternate history, but the west has the same thing. Homeschooling WWII history has got to be pretty awkward, so much wasted time spent explaining all the lies the majority of the people believe.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 11, 2019 12:58 PM  

Well well. What a Cohencidence.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 12:58 PM  

This is pure speculation based on years of cartographical research and informal interviews with witnesses. I think the goal was to ethnically cleanse the Halych/Galicia historical area that contained also the city of Brody. Brody used to be mostly Russian but was turned some point last century to mostly jewish. Halych was at one point an important trade destination for the Viking Rus and was settled centuries later by Austrian Germans in the 1200s and 1800s. It used to be full of Lemko Ruthenians which were cleansed with Germans following the Holodomor. This area was split following WWII between Poland and Ukraine.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 1:01 PM  

"Why should anyone continue to believe in a narrative so harmful to the soul of the German people, even if it happened exactly like they say it happened?"

What is one notable German characteristic and its associated strength and weakness?

They're people of law and order. This means high trust. It also means gullibility and naivete when information is coming from trusted sources. They'll follow the law just because it's the law, even if it goes further than it should.

Now imagine a people totally anathema to that characteristic. What do you think the Germans do when they figure out they're being parasitized by said people? You don't get a law and order culture by going soft on offenses.

The two peoples are about as opposite as opposites can be. So of course the liars lie, because the alternative is punishment for seventy plus years of oppression, deceit, and slow eradication.

Blogger MichaelJMaier June 11, 2019 1:13 PM  

" Did six million jews die across Europe during WWII? "

The amount of times "six million dead" popped up BEFORE WW2 alone .... and the amount of filthy, Satanic lies they spread, I don't believe anything about them.

Especially what THEY tell me about them.

Blogger God Emperor Memes June 11, 2019 1:16 PM  

Memetic warfare is astonishingly effective. - Just the right mixture of rhetoric and humour in an image and a few words and lo!, a meme is born.
If advertisers would stop pandering to the Left and learn to capture the spirit of memery, sales would skyrocket.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 1:17 PM  

"Does it really all boil down to the mismatch of a low trust ethnic group living in a high trust culture?"

Low trust high inward preference. Yeah pretty much. Grifters of the world, but with a common identity and loyalty.

It does need to be remembered though that they aren't really a distinct people as far as bloodlines or descent, they're effectively breakaway "elites" from many places and times, all united under the banner of their religion....

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 1:21 PM  

I've seen them characterized as the Whore of Babylon more than once before, and it really does fit, between their Babylonian mysticism religion and their interbreeding with or just plain grafting in the elites of many places over the years.

That being said, I suspect the Whore is more of a spirit than a direct physical object or people, but they certainly look like some of the results of it.

Blogger Crew June 11, 2019 1:22 PM  

No doubt Ron's article would be illegal in Florida as it would be declared Anti-Semitic.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 1:25 PM  

Great analysis

https://infogalactic.com/info/Prussian_virtues

Not complaining/bravery is a big Prussian virtue.

>"Lerne leiden ohne zu klagen." Translation: "Learn to suffer without complaint."

I don't know times I got in trouble as a kid for whining. Now I can't stand any whining. It is weakness of character. The opposite is a cardinal jewish value.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 1:30 PM  

I suppose the other bookend vice to whining would be vanity in a way. Some people will suffer too much without asking for help because of their pride.

Blogger Jake June 11, 2019 1:47 PM  

Well, if any recent post is going to get you kicked off of Blogspot, this is the one.
But then again, they know you have a backup ready to go!

The weird use of the terms "holocaust" and "6 million" for decades before WWII is also quite telling. It was a pre-planned psy op.

Blogger xevious2030 June 11, 2019 1:56 PM  

@20 (DZ) In Germany, your attorney is thrown in jail for providing actual evidence in your defense that actually disputes the claim. That was the wakeup call for me that something was very wrong. That protecting the truth was not the goal. To quote from the movie Tripple X, “That's clever. You know, you almost had me going for a second? I was a little groggy at first, but then I started noticing things. […] and if she ain't real, then this whole thing ain't real.”

Add to that the manmade global warming (despite Vostock ice core causality), killing babies is a right, Western civilization is bad, any genders not equal to “2” is correct, the longest mathematical method is prudent (common core), matter exists in all states unless observed, lack of evidence is evidence, fathers is unnatural, what is reality, refusing to investigate is proof, humans are morality, magic dirt, noise is music, ugly is art. This whole thing ain’t real. Insanity. Given over to a reprobate mind. The real battle, the real war, Christendom and everything else, Truth and lie, worldwide.

Blogger VD June 11, 2019 2:14 PM  

You're permanently banned, Steve Brown. Do not attempt to comment here again.

Blogger VD June 11, 2019 2:49 PM  

Well, if any recent post is going to get you kicked off of Blogspot, this is the one.

For what? I don't deny that the National Socialists murdered large quantities of Jews and other people. But ALL large historical quantities have always been dubious at best; it took hundreds of years and access to the Vatican archives to correct the exaggerations surrounding the Black Legend of the Spanish Inquisition too.

The truth will come out eventually.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 3:05 PM  

VD wrote:For what?
Violation of the Narrative. It's been pretty conclusively that truth and rationality are not an excuse for violating this particular story line.

Blogger VD June 11, 2019 3:09 PM  

Violation of the Narrative.

Eppure si muove.

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 3:41 PM  

The Allies broke German codes, don't forget. They were eavesdropping on German communications. Our intelligence leadership no doubt was privvy to what they found.

If there had been mention of gas chambers, intentional mass murder of all the Jews, 11 million or whatever number killed, might we not have heard? Doesn't the fact that no such communication to our knowledge exists justify to an extent dismissiveness to the Gallant Chosen People amongst the U.S. intelligence establishment?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 3:44 PM  

tublecane wrote:might we not have heard?
You have to understand, tublecane. They knew what they were doing was evil, so they had to make sure that no record was ever kept. All communications on the matter were oral or handwritten only, and destroyed immediately on receipt. Even a people as orderly and dedicated to following rules and regulations as the Germans threw all that recordkeeping out the window when it came to Jews.

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 3:46 PM  

@19- Washington didn't simply not being it up. They went out of their way to destroy the reputation of Folk Hero Charles Lindbergh for the sin of mentioning Jews as one of a few groups pushing for war. Which they quite obviously were.

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 3:49 PM  

@67- What I'm saying is that we intercepted their communications. No doubt we kept our own records of important things. These could have been destroyed after the fact, but the Holocaust wasn't the Holocaust during the war, and Allied intelligence doesn't appear to have been instructed beforehand to believe the Holocaust as we know it was happening.

Whatever information was being passed up to them, it didn't include the peril of Muh Six Million.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 3:53 PM  

"Even a people as orderly and dedicated to following rules and regulations as the Germans threw all that recordkeeping out the window when it came to Jews."

To be fair, we have significant records of how many *entered* the camps. The lack of records thereafter is certainly cause for questions, but the fact that millions (note: not necessarily as many as claimed) entered and disappeared isn't really debated.

Which, in agreement with Vox re: quantities, is the issue. Not if the Holocaust happened, but how and to what extent.

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 3:57 PM  

@70- You try telling anyone in mainstream culture that the Holocaust is anything but the industrialized slaughter of Six Million Jews in a deliberate attempt to wipe out European Jewry forever.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 3:58 PM  

There's also the simple fact that (a) Mussolini refused to turn over Italian Jews, (b) upon taking over Northern Italy, the Nazis started disappearing said Italian Jews.

The part that really bothers me is that this is just one of dozens of instances of industrial-scale slaughter in the 20th century (in virtually every instance, committed by Socialists or Muslims), but how much do you hear about the others? It's really a bit sickening, regardless of how you feel about the Jews collectively.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 4:09 PM  

>You have to understand, tublecane. They knew what they were doing was evil, so they had to make sure that no record was ever kept. All communications on the matter were oral or handwritten only, and destroyed immediately on receipt. Even a people as orderly and dedicated to following rules and regulations as the Germans threw all that recordkeeping out the window when it came to Jews.

Maybe it's my inability to read sarcasm that is giving me doubt. Could you please clarify if you're using humor or not?

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 4:10 PM  

"You try telling anyone in mainstream culture that the Holocaust is anything but the industrialized slaughter of Six Million Jews in a deliberate attempt to wipe out European Jewry forever."

I have. And in every instance, it was acknowledged that the quantity was debatable. The problem is that certain individuals, as demonstrated above, will immediately step from "maybe it wasn't 6 million" to the "Hitler was a good boy" routine. Which just makes it absolutely impossible to discuss.

IOW: you aren't helping.

Blogger Noah B. June 11, 2019 4:17 PM  

Why and how Jews died in Europe also matters. If they were rounded up into work and deportation camps and mostly died from starvation, exposure and disease largely as a result of Allied bombing and the Soviet advance into Eastern Europe, that's very different from them being methodically gassed by the Germans. If the Allies did have some degree of culpability in these Jews' deaths it makes sense that they would want to cover it up. And we know that Ike engaged in other coverups of failures.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 4:19 PM  

@sammibandit,
Anytime you see me saying anything objectively stupid, just assume I'm being sarcastic.

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 4:29 PM  

@74- "Certain individuals?" They don't need much encouragement . There are about a billion grounds upon which to criticize Hitler beyond "murdered millions with gas." The Holocaust™ may be holding nazi-tardism back. Then again , it may be encouraging it. Because, you know, if Satan weren't pumped up as a villain there probably wouldn't be many Satanists.

Your attitude reminds me of an article I saw recently recommending no one but David McCullough's new book on account of it being about white people. Because that gives aid and comfort to...bad white people? Anyway, it's the aid-and-comfort argument I appreciate least.

Let truth be told though a multitude of dirty nazi-lovers appear justified momentarily. Until they reveal their foolishness a second later.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 5:23 PM  

@Snidley,

Thanks, sir. You're very kind to understand that I have quintessentially Germanic inability to see certain things.

Fwiw to the general audience. I've always had a hard time understanding the following:

1. How most jews killed suddenly moved from within the Reich to Poland, which was a different administrative area.
2. How Lublin, which housed Germans before jews was a death camp only when jews were in it.
3. How the Russian culpability admitted in the 90s for Katyn massacre in 1941 doesn't point to some Russian culpability for jewish slaughter. German forces weren't in the area until 1943.
4. How critics don't take into account that jews might have been killed ~1939 on account of stealing or trying to steal kids.

Blogger DonReynolds June 11, 2019 5:33 PM  

Certain people have worked very hard to create the idea that World War II was fought over the Jewish Holocaust. Of course, that is nonsense. Nor is anyone to blame today for anything that happened during a war that killed 50 to 60 MILLION people. The war crimes trials in Europe and Japan ended almost 70 years ago. The war is over, even though there were certain people who wanted to resort to mass murder and mayhem of German citizens after the war ended, those plots were largely broken up by Allied Occupation authorities.

Were the intelligence officers of the US military anti-semites? There is obviously no proof of that, even though it was not an unusual sentiment in those days. What is more likely, in my opinion, is collective indifference... which is taken today as "holocaust denial" and anti-semitism. The US Army was not in Europe to save the Jews. That was not anybody's mission.

Did Jews die during the war? Of course, but so what? Tens of millions of Germans and Russians, who were not Jewish also died during the war. I refuse to entertain the idea that wartime deaths of a small minority is somehow more important or more significant than the deaths of many more who were not part of any given small minority. It did not change the outcome of the war either way, or the conduct of the war, just as it did not during the war.

Was the holocaust the worst atrocity of the war? Not in the least. There are more horrible and painful ways to die besides being poisoned with Zyklon B. Given the choice, poison gas was much more humane, quick and relatively painless. Much better than being roasted in a fire storm, ripped to bits by a landmine or high explosive, or crushed like a bug in a collapsing building. There was no shortage of pain and human suffering. Everyone else has moved on with their lives. The war is over.

Blogger Unknown June 11, 2019 5:36 PM  

You haven't done a "deep dive" for yourself, but you just /know./

Blogger Unknown June 11, 2019 5:38 PM  

Put it this way. The Holocaust never happened, but Hitler supported the Zionists and never bothered to solve the Jewish Question. Therefore, he is no hero.

Blogger Unknown June 11, 2019 5:39 PM  

Solzhenitsyn was responsible for the 66 million number. Guess where he got it from? Nowhere.

Blogger Gettimothy June 11, 2019 6:03 PM  

Everything I learned about the Spanish Inquisition, I learned from a Mel Brooks movie. AND, I took it as truthful.

Today, I learn of:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Black_Legend


Related, given the demonization of Christopher Columbus, we learn that the Aztec's really were demonic monsters and, by my reasoning, the Spaniards were justified in killing the s.o.b's.

New Personal Rule: If it is common knowledge, it is propaganda.




Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 6:08 PM  

"How most jews killed suddenly moved from within the Reich to Poland, which was a different administrative area."

The only way this can be a question is for you to redefine "suddenly" to mean "over the course of several years". To reiterate the earlier point, don't carry water for stupid.

It is common knowledge that most of the camps were in Poland, right? Hell, the Poles had to outlaw implying they were responsible by calling them "Polish death camps". That happened *just last year*. They had a big row with the EU about it and everything.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 6:21 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:even though there were certain people who wanted to resort to mass murder and mayhem of German citizens after the war ended, those plots were largely broken up by Allied Occupation authorities.
Eisenhower, personally, created a new category of war prisoner Disarmed Enemy Forces, which he declared did not fall under the provisions of the Geneva Convention.
He ordered the internment of over 2,000,000 of these German regular army soldiers in open fields. They were forbidden to build any structures and they were not provided with any shelter or extra clothing, even in the middle of the Central European winter. They were rationed 700 calories per day, which is a slow death by starvation for a healthy and well-clothed and sheltered person. They were not allowed to keep any money, and were not allowed to trade outside the camps.
Any Allied soldier, dependent or other person who provided any issued rations, even table scraps to a German national was subject to prosecution for Black Marketeering, with penalties up to and including execution. Donations of food by Red Cross and other charities were turned away.
Over a million German soldiers died of typhus, starvation and exposure in POW camps run by the US government. Intentionally.

Now tell me how awful the Germans are.

For that matter, pontificate a while on Andersonville, keeping in mind that at Andersonville, the guards joined their prisoners in starvation, which was in any case caused by the intentional policy of the Union Army to starve the South.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 6:26 PM  

"Over a million German soldiers died of typhus, starvation and exposure in POW camps run by the US government. Intentionally."

This exceeds the highest estimate ever given by a large margin. Source, please.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 6:33 PM  

S1AL wrote:Source, please.
The book Other Losses by some Canadian fellow.

Blogger dienw June 11, 2019 6:47 PM  

S1AL wrote:"Over a million German soldiers died of typhus, starvation and exposure in POW camps run by the US government. Intentionally."

This exceeds the highest estimate ever given by a large margin. Source, please.


There was a total 14 million post war POWs and civilian starved to death when counting the Allied forces actions.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 6:49 PM  

Yeah, I've seen it. In addition to the dozens of readily-confirmable false statements made by the author (Bacque), the highest number he was able to give was 800,000 (he exaggerated to a million for the same of consonance) - this was all Allied prisoners combined (not U.S.), is readily refuted on the basis of established Soviet lies alone, and is contrary to the 10+ year report issues by the Germans themselves (who estimate a maximum of 60k deaths).

You're usually far better about your facts.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 6:52 PM  

"There was a total 14 million post war POWs and civilian starved to death when counting the Allied forces actions."

Because the USSR was awful? Come on, you guys can do better than this.

There's a certain irony to arguing that the Jewish death estimate in the Holocaust is too high and then turning around and pointing to absolutely outlandish claims for POW deaths. Or to trying to blame Russian/USSR awfulness on the rest of the Allies.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 7:11 PM  

@S1AL

Don't speak to me unless I speak to you directly. I see how slimy you are with other regulars here. You're absolutely full of crap and that's why your jaw hangs open to catch flies. Drop the ethnic abuse while you're at it.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 7:11 PM  

On a side note, for those of you claiming that gas chambers were a fabrication, note that the original information was supplied by Witold Pilecki, a blond-haired, blue-eyed, square-jawed, Polish Roman Catholic patriot who *volunteered* to be captured and sent to Auschwitz. Which he survived, only to be killed by a different set of Socialists.

Your get three guesses as to whom I'm trusting, and the first two don't count.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 7:14 PM  

Since when do you care about Germans? You've now ethnically abused Poles, Germans, and Russians. Let us know when you decide to join AD 1943, otherwise stop darkening the doorway to this thread with your shadow.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 7:19 PM  

"Don't speak to me unless I speak to you directly. I see how slimy you are with other regulars here. You're absolutely full of crap and that's why your jaw hangs open to catch flies. Drop the ethnic abuse while you're at it."

First, you don't get to make rules here. I'll comply with orders from Vox or moderators, not you.

Second, you lack basic reading comprehension. I'm *fascinated* by Poland and the Polish people and their history. I was pointing out that *certain assholes* were shifting blame to Poland for the crimes of the Nazis. It got so bad that Poland had to literally criminalize the slander to stop it. That's the right reaction.

Third, complaining about ethnic abuse in this thread? Heh.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 7:28 PM  

Sorry, not interested in your backpeddaling, Mr. Fancypants. For the record, you said Poles called them Polish Death Camps per the below quote.

>Poles had to outlaw implying they were responsible by calling them "Polish death camps".

If you don't want to be hand-waved away you should be more careful how you speak to others.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 11, 2019 7:37 PM  

S1AL wrote:is contrary to the 10+ year report issues by the Germans themselves (who estimate a maximum of 60k deaths).
The German government of 1955 was, literally, the US Army. You can do better than that. The DEF designation was made EXPLICITLY to evade having to classify the German soldiers as POWs. POW numbers do not count.
When did you guys become sticklers for independently verifiable numbers. Please provide an independent source for the number of Jewish deaths in teh internment camps.
And a lie is a lie, whoever makes it, even Blonds with Blue Eyes and Square Jaws, and notably lacking in the nasal department can lie.

Your special pleading is sickening.

Blogger lynnjynh9315 June 11, 2019 7:40 PM  

I would like to draw everyone's attention to the following article:
https://infogalactic.com/info/Gas_van

1. The "gas chamber" concept was imported by the Nazis from the Soviets. We at least know the idea was in the air.
2. If the wiki-mods were going to alter/censor this topic, why admit commie involvement?

Idk, but I'm more willing to dispute the numbers than deliberate exterminations.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 8:02 PM  

It's funny. After all these years there are really no hard feelings by Germans against Americans. No one is around to have bad feelings that way.

Of course, there's maybe one reason to have hard feelings but those feelings only apply if you compare how POWs from Germany were treated by Canadians verses by Americans. As this was at least a Jubilee ago, the only people who could really be mad are long gone or have succumbed to alcohol-induced dementia. There's no use feeling bad for the dead. The dead have no use. We like you have no use for tending old wounds so they bleed and fester. We just want honest accounting. We can say we both have a blot on our souls and we can commiserate together so long as our eyes look forward and our chins are tucked in. Like you, we like to move on. No use feeling unless the feeling has a use.

Many Germans, myself included, feel pity and for lack of a better word bittersweet nostalgia for Americans having to clean us up. You shouldn't have had to do that. But you did because you're American and you work hard. None of you ravished our women. You did a clean job. We cherish your goodwill for that more than you know. I have no uncles who look American but I do have uncles who look Mongol-Russian...

I've met several servicemen who were stationed at the wall in the 70s and they're all somewhat traumatized by having to mind us. It's not fair to them they served this way. They have all apologized to me for having to mind us, a burden I wish on no one is what they bear. If I can help ease that burden I will do what I can. But Americans are strong and forward looking. We like how frank and unsheltered you are. We like how you could before 1965 come to America, assimilate, and leave behind the last name that marked your station in life. You are a treasure on this earth and an ally worth fighting with in this new age.

Blogger DonReynolds June 11, 2019 8:08 PM  

@84 Snidely Whiplash
"Now tell me how awful the Germans are."

I never said the Germans were awful at all, but since you are interested I can tell you...I think the Americans would be much more terrible if they ever faced the same circumstances. Americans can be pretty cold-blooded when they bother to think about it. I have always said, I would hate to have my own people after me.

"For that matter, pontificate a while on Andersonville, keeping in mind that at Andersonville, the guards joined their prisoners in starvation, which was in any case caused by the intentional policy of the Union Army to starve the South."

Much is made of Andersonville and the camp commander was the only Confederate officer executed for war crimes, even though he was Swiss. But no one wants to consider the deliberate policy of genocide when you ship thousands of prisoners to some of the coldest places in the USA to prison camps, knowing very few would survive. Camp Douglas in Chicago is a good example and there were others in Michigan, Minnesota, and Maine. In Maine, the Rebs were not dying fast enough so they cranked up the firing squads and held illegal courts martial to make more room.

Blogger Rough Carrigan June 11, 2019 8:20 PM  

Elie Wiesel, famous jewish holocaust survivor initially made no mention of gas chambers in his book Night. He initially claimed that jews were killed by being marched or thrown into burning fire pits. He also claimed that 10,000 were put to death each day at Buchenwald, which would be 3.65 million per year at that camp alone.

Blogger S1AL June 11, 2019 8:23 PM  

"The German government of 1955 was, literally, the US Army. You can do better than that. The DEF designation was made EXPLICITLY to evade having to classify the German soldiers as POWs. POW numbers do not count."

I didn't say that the report started in 1945 (and the Germans began self-governance in 1949). The Maschke Commission started in 1962 and ran until 1975. A brief review of responses to it (since it's in German and generally only available in Germany), indicates that the estimates are, if anything, lower than those reached by the American analysis. It's a 22-volume compendium detailing 13 years worth of analysis. I don't know why you would dismiss it, especially given that the man for whom it was named was not precisely friendly towards America specifically or the Allies generally - he made several accusations of atrocities in his contribution to the compendium.

Now, I'm aware of the DEF classification. It wasn't exactly unprecedented (the Nazis used similar for their Italian *allies*) nor is it confusing given the shocking situation at the time (7 million extra Germans fled to the West to escape the USSR forces). The Geneva convention is incredibly stringent with regards to POW food requirements.

But, and this is the obvious indicator that Bacque is completely wrong: his figures rely on the assertion that ~700,000 prisoners escaped the Soviet forces and were captured by Western Allied forces instead. Declassification of Soviet archives prove this is false, as the Soviets covered up (at minimum) 350,000 prisoners - who probably were massacred.

In addition to that, I can point you to people who've independently verified that Bacque cannot read chart titles or do math correctly, based on the sources in his book.

And, of course, after looking it up... yup, he's a freaking Commie. Moreover, he's also not a historian - he's a fiction writer. He's Mary Beard without the genuine academic work.

"When did you guys become sticklers for independently verifiable numbers. Please provide an independent source for the number of Jewish deaths in teh internment camps."

I've already said the lack of records is sketchy and opens up a lot of questions. But I also said we can verify, to some extent, the rate at which prisoners boarded the trains and entered the camp (note: there are also some interesting discrepancies here). The Germans were, after all, very detailed.

"And a lie is a lie, whoever makes it, even Blonds with Blue Eyes and Square Jaws, and notably lacking in the nasal department can lie.

Your special pleading is sickening."


Sure, maybe the guy was lying. Maybe a man willing to get himself captured to provide information was just a lying tool.

Maybe. But I rather doubt it. Especially when it lines up with all of the other eye-witness testimony.

Blogger sammibandit June 11, 2019 8:38 PM  

@Snidley

Anecdotally, before my oma left for Canada and while she was on the bad side of the wall used to go on a boat to sneak across to the other side. American soldiers used to pantomime shooting at her. They never intended to hit her. I asked her many questions over several sessions to clarify this because it's almost incredible. She was able to sneak to the Western side for food. They'd toss off a few rounds just to say we see you, no big deal, be quick. Near as I understand she had to go across the river to get to an island or to get from an island to the mainland. Not sure where she was exactly but that's not the point of the story. I didn't know the Americans did this at their own peril. A testament to your people.

In contrast, Nazi soldiers shot at my grandma more than a couple times in the capital of Denmark. They legit tried to kill her. She being Danish, cursed them out and egged them on to get better aim next time.

Blogger D. June 11, 2019 8:46 PM  

From Beaty's book:

>Thus, when the ship of patronage came in with the election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932, the Democrats of the old tradition, whether Southern Protestants or Northern Catholics, wanted dams, bridges, government buildings, and other government- financed projects in their districts; wanted contracts for themselves and their friends; and wanted also a quota of safe tenure positions, such as federal judgeships. Neither group of old-time Democrats had many leaders who specialized in languages or in the complex subject matter of “foreign affairs,” and neither group objected to the seemingly modest interest of certain of the party’ s Eastern European recruits for jobs of sub- cabinet rank in Washington.

The first spectacular triumph of the non-Christian Eastern European Democrats was Roosevelt’s recognition, less than nine months after his inauguration, of the Soviet government of Russia. A lengthy factual article, “Moscow’s RED LETTER DAY in American History/’ by William La Varre in the American Legion Magazine (August, 1951), gives many details on our strange diplomatic move which was arranged by “Litvinoff, of deceitful smiles” and by “Henry Morgenthau and Dean Acheson, both proteges of Felix Frankfurter.” Incidentally, Litvinoff’s birth- name was Wallach and he also used the Finkelstein. Three of the four persons thus named by Mr. La Varre as influential in this deal were of the same no n- Christian stock or association — and the fourth was Dean Acheson, “who served as law clerk of Justice Louis D. Brandeis” (U.S. News and World Report, November 9, 1951) before becoming famous as a “Frankfurter boy” (see below, this chapter). The principal “Frankfurter boy” is the subject of a most important article in the American Mercury magazine (11, East 36th Street, New York 16, N.Y., 10 copies for $1.00) for April, 1952. <

Blogger Azure Amaranthine June 11, 2019 10:57 PM  

"The Holocaust™ may be holding nazi-tardism back. Then again , it may be encouraging it."

From observation, whenever the pendulum swings back, it usually swings back too far. The Holocaust narrative is probably not the only cause of nazi-tardism, but it's a major cause and possibly primary.

"I refuse to entertain the idea that wartime deaths of a small minority is somehow more important or more significant than the deaths of many more who were not part of any given small minority. It did not change the outcome of the war either way, or the conduct of the war, just as it did not during the war."

By the concept about victors writing the history books, that the holocaust is often seen as the most significant occurrence of WWII leads one to wonder exactly whom the victors were.

Blogger Jack Amok June 11, 2019 11:43 PM  

My uncle was part of a regiment that liberated a camp in 45, and he said it was pretty bad - lost of very emaciated and poorly cared for inmates.

Which makes perfect sense when you realized Germany was facing shortages of everything by then as the devastation of the war ruined their economy. They barely had enough to feed people they though they needed to win the war - a bunch of prisoners (whatever the reason they were incarcerated) wouldn't get much.

So the camps were real. But that doesn't mean the "final solution" was. And really, isn't the most compelling argument that it didn't happen the fact people want to make it a crime to deny it happened?

Blogger tublecane June 11, 2019 11:47 PM  

@96- Not sure I understand your point. Wikipedia is full of dirt on commies. It's not all hidden.

What Nazis most learned from commies was concentration camp methods in general. Gas vans are not a reasonable means of mass execution. It would be a ridiculous waste of resources in a Holocaust context.

Blogger Jack Amok June 12, 2019 12:20 AM  

There was no shortage of pain and human suffering. Everyone else has moved on with their lives. The war is over.

No kidding.

And not only over, but almost all the people who fought in it are dead. My dad and all my uncles are gone. My aunts who were WACs and nurses are gone. Wretchard was calling last Thursday "The Last Longest Day."

I think that's part of the overblown victimhood mongering. They know tomorrow nobody will give a damn, whether it happened or not.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 12, 2019 1:36 AM  

@48

"Even if new lies stopped being created, it'd take hundreds of years to fix the damage done to human understanding of last century. People laugh at North Korea's alternate history, but the west has the same thing. Homeschooling WWII history has got to be pretty awkward, so much wasted time spent explaining all the lies the majority of the people believe."

Correcting the record isn't time wasted at all.

Blogger Toris June 12, 2019 3:53 AM  

Considering in old letters and books, etc., we see likes of 'the holocaust in Europe' re: Napoleonic Wars, it's odd we now have a capitalised version simply for our special ones.

Thanks to special people such as Marvin Chomsky. That's some effective manufacturing of consent. Strange Cousin Noam never delved into his own family's involvement in mass propaganda.

Blogger Kudos The Lexecutioner June 12, 2019 10:21 AM  

After reading the jaw-dropping American Betrayal by Diana West, I've come to realize that almost all the history I thought I knew is tainted.

After meticulously documenting the massive Soviet penetration of the U.S. Government going back to Roosevelt's administration, and how that affected almost all strategic regions made before and during the war, she notes that McCarthy "didn't know the half of it."

Our government KNEW in the 1940s that the Soviets, not the Germans (who reported it to the world), were responsible for the Katyn Forest Massacre of Polish officers. They didn't acknowledge this until AFTER the Soviets 'fessed up decades later. That outright lie was always anti-German propaganda, pushed by Communist moles in the government.

If this was a lie, what else might be?

Blogger Greg Hunt June 12, 2019 11:54 AM  

"I don't understand, Tony. Are you saying they had wooden doors on them?b
"As God is my witness. Wooden doors."
"Wooden doors. That don't make no sense, Tony."

Blogger sammibandit June 12, 2019 12:45 PM  

>Our government KNEW in the 1940s that the Soviets, not the Germans (who reported it to the world), were responsible for the Katyn Forest Massacre of Polish officers. They didn't acknowledge this until AFTER the Soviets 'fessed up decades later. That outright lie was always anti-German propaganda, pushed by Communist moles in the government.

20,000 Polish nobles slaughtered. There were some indications that some were buried alive by how their bodies were positioned.

Russians blamed Germany because Germany discovered the bodies in 1943, using the "he who smelt it dealt it" accusation. Germany was no where near the area in 1941 when the Poles were murdered. At the time, Germany retorted with "he who said the rhyme did the crime". Allies went on believing it and believing it against the odds.

I remember getting in trouble in High School when I reported that the textbook blaming Germany was incorrect. My idiot teacher all but called me a Nazi and threatened to suspend me on this factoid alone. Talking about the Holodomors also got me in trouble. The teacher said in effect "why should you care those were Ruthenians". I should have pushed this to the Superintendent but I was an idiot 17 year old.

Blogger InformationMerchant June 13, 2019 10:25 PM  

@107

Compared to everyone knowing the truth.

Instead of "X happened", you instead have to say "X happened, but most people think Y and Z happened and here is why Y and Z didn't happen".

The leftist lore is piling up, not only the events of last century but this century. The collective amount of hours spent is mind boggling. In an alternate universe where no one believes or propagates the most cartoonish stuff - time could be much better spent.

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