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Tuesday, June 25, 2019

Don't wait to have kids

And listen to GenX, not the idiot Boomers. You'll be glad you did:
Kirstie Allsopp has slammed young couples who wait until their thirties to have children.

The Location, Location, Location presenter, 47, took to Twitter on Wednesday to urge women in their twenties not to wait until they 'have more money or feel ready', and to save their money for 'proper childcare', instead of splashing on lavish weddings and expensive houses.

Expressing her frustration at millennials who tell her they want 'a few more years of fun', she argued that 'nothing will ever be more fun than children'.

Kirstie also revealed her regret at waiting until she was 35 and 37 to have her sons Bay, 11, and Oscar, nine, admitting that she was 'too old' to have a third, and had only waited until her thirties to start a family as she hadn't met the right man.

However her impassioned Twitter thread sparked a heated debate, with many followers warning her that her message was putting unnecessary pressure on young couples, and could panic women into starting families.... Slamming the TV presenter's message, one follower wrote: 'Stop telling women in their late 20s they’re running out of time to have kids. It’s so damaging.' Another argued that millennials should be allowed to live their lives to the full while they were still commitment-free, so they wouldn't feel they missed out later.
The problem is that no one feels they've missed out more than a woman who focuses on having fun during her fertile years only to discover that she missed out on motherhood. Don't wait. You won't regret it.

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189 Comments:

Blogger DeepThought June 25, 2019 1:28 PM  

We have 6 kids in our blended family. Our youngest is 5 and our oldest is 28. It is much much easier to raise children when you are young and are full of energy!

Blogger Lazarus June 25, 2019 1:39 PM  

Girls just wanna have fun.

Women just wanna have kids.

Blogger Fargoth June 25, 2019 1:42 PM  

Call me Mr. Pregnant

Blogger CarpeOro June 25, 2019 1:44 PM  

"her message was putting unnecessary pressure"

Yeah, reality tends to do that. News alert: the real world is NOT A SAFE SPACE and those who tell you different should be excised from your life like the cancer they are.

Blogger Beau June 25, 2019 1:45 PM  

Asked by a friend upon birth of our first, "What one word describes being parents now?"

We together responded, "Satisfying."

---
At our second daughters wedding all four parents were asked for words of wisdom to the newlyweds. I went last and only said, "Be fruitful and multiply." It brought down the house.

Be fruitful and multiply!

Blogger Whitecloak June 25, 2019 1:45 PM  

We're expecting our first in September. The wife is glad we pulled the trigger now, poor though we may be, rather than waiting another decade to see if material circumstance improves.

Fortune waxes and wanes, youth and fertility only runs one direction.

Blogger Orange Color June 25, 2019 1:50 PM  

RUBBLE BOUNCED

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 1:50 PM  

You'd be surprised at the "necessities" you can live without when you're a parent.
Sleep being the biggest one. It's easy when you're 20, hard when you're 32, impossible when you're 45

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 25, 2019 1:53 PM  

This line is hilarious:

her impassioned Twitter thread sparked a heated debate, with many followers warning her that her message was putting unnecessary pressure on young couples, and could panic women into starting families

I don't see a problem with that at all.

Blogger dienw June 25, 2019 1:54 PM  

Tangential to Moms:
A SWAT team of two snipers was stationed on the roof of a public library in Spokane, Washington June 15. Their mission, along with 30-40 police officers, was to defend Drag Queen Story Hour from 300 concerned mothers and allies protesting the event.
The snipers, decked out in camouflage, were photographed on the roof of the library monitoring the protesting mothers with binoculars.


The rulers of Spokane are evil.

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 1:56 PM  

I wish I wasn't going to be 35 with my first, but I will. Luckily I have a really fast cycle and look very young for my age. But no kidding I wasted lots of time.

Women feel pressure internally after every ovulation to get pregnant. ANYONE who says otherwise is lying.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 25, 2019 1:58 PM  

That "few years of fun" thing is one of the biggest lies feminism is based on.

"Few years of fun." = "I am damaged goods."

These are the women that are most likely to abandon their husbands and children for the "Eat, Pray, Love." lifestyle and will feel completely justified about how many lives they ruined in their wake.

Blogger Kat June 25, 2019 2:02 PM  

Our own story was one of getting married in our early twenties, being completely open to having kids right off the bat, and then not having kids for several years for various reasons that can be summed up best as "shit happens." Thankfully God has blessed us with multiple kids with no signs of stopping, but I share this story widely because the default position is that "I can always get pregnant."

NO! You can't always get pregnant.

I was young, in shape, ate healthy, never on birth control, and didn't use birth control at any point before kids. On paper I should have gotten pregnant easily in the first year. Didn't happen, and we went through years of wondering if it would ever happen. I felt broken, defeated, and deeply hurt that God would "punish" my wonderful husband by apparently giving him a wife who couldn't get pregnant.

Like I said, God has put those years behind us, but I don't want any woman to go through that because she's listening to the foolishness of this age. Have kids early while you can still pull all nighters and then take them backpacking with your while your knees are still good! Deliberately putting off kids just means you get fewer years with those really cool humans you love more than life itself.

Blogger Joe Smith June 25, 2019 2:04 PM  

Some women actually do regret that they never got to "have fun" the way they've been programmed they should have in their 20s. I know at least one woman like that; she doesn't regret her daughters, but she wishes she had experienced whatever it is our retarded culture says she should have experienced. I guess getting pumped and dumped a bunch. But even if that happens it's nothing compared to the regret of hitting the wall at say 38 and simply not being able to have children at all as a result. I know some women like that too, and it's obviously worse.

Blogger Kevin June 25, 2019 2:06 PM  

I got married at 19 and waited a couple of years till I had my first child at 22. I could afford to do this because I married so young, but anyone who gets married after 25 or so really ought to get started right away.

Blogger Spud June 25, 2019 2:14 PM  

I had my first child 20 months ago when I was 31. I'm quite active and I am in great shape but I find that I don't have much energy after work and it is hard to wrestle around with my little boy when I get home. 10 years ago it would have been no problem. I definitely do everything I can to keep active with him but I did cheat him out of a more active lifestyle because I waited so long.

I always encourage others to have children early. Not one moment in my single life was better than even the worst moments with my children. It also motivated me to enhance my own life so that I have more to teach them. I read more, exercise more, and have recently found God. 2 years ago I couldn't tell you who Saint Paul or Cicero were, now I can ramble for hours (sorry wife!).

Blogger MATT June 25, 2019 2:14 PM  

It's, like, so damaging, like.
They have ANXIETY. Hellooo?

Blogger MATT June 25, 2019 2:15 PM  

She just missed out on her 5 minutes of alpha. The state raised her kids, so she wasnt occupied by teaching them.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 25, 2019 2:16 PM  

"... not the idiot Boomers."

Vox, I guess it is a cultural thing or something. I get it that you know Boomers who would tell the girls to be sluts. But I have never known a single lady who was not urging her kids or grand-kids to have lots of children.

I will admit I have only really known those of Appalachia or the deep, deep south. I have not known many who were not God fearing. Perhaps my views are shaped by personal experience but I have always found the older the woman the more she wanted her offspring to get in there and get pregnant.

Blogger matism June 25, 2019 2:17 PM  

So are the Seattle SWAT team, dienw.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit June 25, 2019 2:18 PM  

Yes. A thousand times yes. At least we can be an outspoken bad example.

Don't make the Gen X woman's mistake.

Now to figure out a venue where pretty virgins with no debt who want children they can home school can meet Christian young men in the trades.

Blogger KBuff June 25, 2019 2:20 PM  

Waiting to have kids certainly comes with risks, including possible infertility. My wife and I married in our early 20s, waited about two and a half years until just before I finished my master's, then spent the next five and a half years trying to have kids. We finally succeeded, having four altogether in our late 20s and early 30s. Now the kids are all in their 20s, and know all too well not to wait too long.

Blogger binks webelf June 25, 2019 2:20 PM  

The War On Reality continues.

"Generally, fertility begins to drop in your late 20s or early 30s and falls more rapidly after the age of 35."

You cannot have it all, have it now, and have it forever. 18-30 is your best time for babies. A woman who starts earlier & continues having children can keep on having kids for many years; people starting at 30 or 35 already have lost a lot of their prime childbearing years, and will find it much harder to get pregnant at all.

Biology is terribly sexist.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/04/30/fertility/index.html
Study: Fertility declines in late 20s

https://winteryknight.com/2019/03/05/study-women-seeking-to-have-a-child-should-start-before-age-32/
STUDY: WOMEN SEEKING TO HAVE A CHILD SHOULD START BEFORE AGE 32

https://winteryknight.com/2018/05/31/woman-explains-what-she-was-told-about-having-children-when-she-was-young/
WOMAN EXPLAINS WHAT SHE WAS TOLD ABOUT HAVING CHILDREN WHEN SHE WAS YOUNG

Blogger Johnny Reb June 25, 2019 2:22 PM  

Vox, you've been on tare lately and I reckon you're right on this. We sure do need to commit to this posterity and owning the future - damn right! Nate was right, finally found my church, I look around and see at least 50% possibly 65% or more men and lots of couples with kids. My nieces? Oldest is 27, next is 25 and on down. Dad's a pastor, years ago we talked and he said he would never encourage them to pick career over family. Well 20 something now,no marriage prospects I can see and when I hang out with them I hear the "Oh nobody is good enough for my girl." Somebody once said you pick good enough then you make better from it or as a mission leader once told me after I told him I wanted to be careful and picky, "well don't be too picky or you might end up without one." Good advice. That mid 30's desperation is not a good smell - man or woman.

Slightly OT, Paul G I know you read here so if Bev is still single ask grandma Joyce to contact mom and maybe we can try again. She should be married and so should she. Still time at 33.

Blogger Mom June 25, 2019 2:25 PM  

God's Word says children are a blessing, a gift, a heritage (Psalm 127). The world says they're a burden, a curse, and a pain. Choose to believe God. It's not easy, but, of course nothing of value is. Our many kids are our delight. And 37 is certainly not too old, if you can maintain your health; I was 48 when we had our last.

Blogger VD June 25, 2019 2:31 PM  

Vox, I guess it is a cultural thing or something. I get it that you know Boomers who would tell the girls to be sluts. But I have never known a single lady who was not urging her kids or grand-kids to have lots of children.

Stop defending the evil Boomers. They told every single woman of my generation to delay getting married and delay having children. Every single one. They emphasized education and career, not marriage and children.

Blogger VD June 25, 2019 2:32 PM  

Stop posting OT links, Binks.

Blogger IrishFarmer June 25, 2019 2:41 PM  

Can confirm: a guy who had first child at 25ish. I still think that was too late, youd be amazed how quickly it becomes very difficult to lose sleep, to run around, and so on. Do it while you're young. You're gonna make mor money to enjoy after they grow up anyway.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 25, 2019 2:42 PM  

"Stop defending the evil Boomers. They told every single woman of my generation to delay getting married and delay having children. Every single one. They emphasized education and career, not marriage and children."

Case in point: Handsy Joe Biden's favorite advice to young girls: "No serious boyfriends until you're 30!"

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 25, 2019 2:45 PM  

Not having kids hits women harder than it does men. Multiple childless female relations have expressed regret over not settling down and having kids when they were younger. Now it's too late for them.

As for childless male relations, nada concern.

Blogger Noah B. June 25, 2019 2:51 PM  

Whatever kind of life advice they were doling out, at the center of it was always the same toxic lie: you have plenty of time.

Blogger Jeffrey Johnson June 25, 2019 2:51 PM  

My wife and I got married when I was 36 and she was 27. Due to our older age we didn't wait to have kids and a few days after our first anniversary we had our daughter. I'm glad for my wife and daughter but it would have been nicer if my wife and I met, got married and had children 5 or 6 years ago. From my little bit of parenting experience I can easily say that you can physically handle parenting better when you are younger.

Blogger Noah B. June 25, 2019 2:53 PM  

"Sleep being the biggest one. It's easy when you're 20, hard when you're 32, impossible when you're 45."

But at least in your 40s it's possible to sleep with a toddler walking on your face.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 25, 2019 2:56 PM  

, and had only waited until her thirties to start a family as she hadn't met the right man.

In fairness finding a MAN is a fairly serious problem for Millennial girls.

Quite a few of them seem to have worked out the answer to that problem.

Which is to send the Generation X male back to the studfarm.

Recent quote I overheard between two Millennial girls discussing a guy. He's like, super Daddy, I'm just saying."

The other girl agreed. That yes, he was indeed, "Daddy."

The guy these early Twenty-somethings were swooning over was Supernatural star Jensen Ackles...who is 41.

Blogger Cary June 25, 2019 3:02 PM  

The cultural messaging on this is all pushing people the wrong way. As an Xer, this had negative consequences in my life. Learn from our mistakes.

Married my wife just as we were turning 30. We had both had a small number of longer prior relationships that didn’t result in marriage. You can easily use up your 20’s with just a couple of 2-3 year relationships. These failed in part through emphasizing career over finding a spouse.

At 30 the odds are already starting to turn against you, especially if you have any desire for a larger family.

Our biggest mistake was not in going all out on trying to conceive right away. We went another 2 years before getting really serious about it. Literally no one ever questioned us, let alone pressed us to make having children a priority, not family, nor doctors, not pastors, nor friends.

Long story short, after a decade of infertility, we were blessed to have one child through medical assistance. Being a parent at 40 is not ideal, but vastly better than remaining barren.

I know many of my generation who followed this path. Some managed to have one or two kids, but no more than that. Others ended up with adoption as their only option for a family.

Prioritize marriage and then having children. You will not regret it. You will regret not doing it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 3:04 PM  

Noah B. wrote:But at least in your 40s it's possible to sleep with a toddler walking on your face.
This is indisputable fact.

Blogger Goodnight June 25, 2019 3:06 PM  

Gen-Xer here. We listened too much to the "You need the career and lots of money first" voices from most of our boomer relatives and wait until our 30s to start. We only had two and I had crossed 40 when my youngest was born. (My wife is 5 years younger). We both regret terribly waiting so long. We very much regret only having two. It's also crazy hard to physically keep up sometimes. Every day something makes me think of how much better it would have been for them if we were younger, which is heartbreaking. The crazy thing is that the money and career thing have literally never mattered. I could have made a third of my income and the kids would have been happy and fine.

It was all such a lie. The only people who told us the truth were my parents, devout Christians who had 4 kids in their 20s when they were broke. We had a great childhood too. But my wife and I totally bought into the whole "things have changed - you need a ton of money" nonsense pushed by her parents. Such bullshit.

Blogger VFM #7634 June 25, 2019 3:06 PM  

@Cataline Sergius

Yeah, women's biological clocks and the difficulty people (especially men) are having getting decent employment is making older man / younger woman age gaps far less unusual than even ten years ago.

Blogger Solon June 25, 2019 3:17 PM  

"Panic women into starting families"

That's... Sort of the idea. Talk about missing the point.

Blogger Sheila4g June 25, 2019 3:18 PM  

I married late, at 31, not because I was focused on my career or having fun, but because I hadn't met the right man until then. We had our first son before our 2nd anniversary, but then waited another 8 years before we had our second (I was 41 when he was born) because my husband was worried about affording more kids and paying for college. Never had any problem conceiving, but only after I was too old to have more did my husband realize he was wrong. He now regrets we didn't have four or five. So don't delay for any reason, and while you can manage being an older parent, sleepless nights and colic are a lot easier in your 20s than in your 40s. Even so, what's sleep beside the joy of children and the hope of posterity?

Blogger Jay in DC June 25, 2019 3:27 PM  

Millennial chicks can't even make fucking toast. Now you want them to make a child? And take care of it?

You are potentially dooming that child to a life of abject misery. I can only condone this 'have kids young' paradigm if they women are 100% ready for the -realities- of motherhood and able to understand they are not the center of the universe.

From the vast majority of iphone addicted robot girls I've met that seems like a VERY tall order, at best.

Said another way: Be careful what you wish for. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. The child should never suffer because his mom is a narcissistic bint.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 25, 2019 3:28 PM  

@VFM #7634

You’re right. I’m 35 and my wife is 24. We have a 17 month-old. Happy as ever and it is due partly that I am able to support the family on my income alone.

It’s been mentioned a couple of times on this thread, but women especially need to know about The Wall and Damaged Goods. I lived a sinful lifestyle for several years with regards to promiscuity, but when it came time to settle down, I was not looking for the girls who were finally ready to settle down and were around my age. Besides the fact that I knew where they had been from personal experience, and that they were less physically attractive, on a deeper level a lot of them were broken from their party years. No trust. No joyful femininity. No innocence. Some of the many reasons that I chose to date younger. Women can protest the double-standard, but that will not change the world. Just like MTGOW’s can protest that women don’t like for them “for who they are” doesn’t change anything.

Father’s, if you love your daughters, encourage them to marry young and to marry well.

Blogger kurt9 June 25, 2019 3:30 PM  

The advice I've heard is that you should have kids only if the intensity of the desire to have them is 8 or better on the 1-10 scale.

Blogger Whitecloak June 25, 2019 3:32 PM  

@43 - I really hope that it wasn't Christians giving that advice. One of our earliest commands, a sacred charge, is to be fruitful and multiply, is it not?

Boomerism has brought us to ruin. I shudder to think the state of things when the bill of our unmaking begins coming due in earnest.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction June 25, 2019 3:41 PM  

@41


You are potentially dooming that child to a life of abject misery. I can only condone this 'have kids young' paradigm if they women are 100% ready for the -realities- of motherhood and able to understand they are not the center of the universe.


Your condonement is not necessary, needed or even desired.

No one is ever 100% ready to have kids. You have kids and them figure out as you go. It's what I'm doing, what my parents did, their parents and every single generation of human beings ever.

Contrary to expectations that "millenial women can't even cook so how can they be mothers?" mantra, almost every single women my age who was a mother struck me as approaching the job with nothing less than the seriousness it required. Being parents is hard coded into us.

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 3:45 PM  

Be careful what you ask for. I asked God for a child by 35. I'll get exactly that barring complications. So, I then asked him for command of a winning army by 40. God is hilarious often in answering prayers. Looking forward to what that prayer turns out. Hopefully a swarm of baby berserkers.

Blogger kurt9 June 25, 2019 3:46 PM  

Increasing youthful lifespan to, say, 120 to 150 years would eliminate the tradeoff of having kids vs child-free life because it would give you the time to do both. It would also make it easier to sock away money to do both as well.

Blogger MATT June 25, 2019 3:48 PM  

They didnt mean Daddy the way you seem to be thinking..

Blogger RC June 25, 2019 3:52 PM  

@Overgrown Hobbit

"Now to figure out a venue where pretty virgins with no debt who want children they can home school can meet Christian young men in the trades."

My home is just such a venue. It's been quite interesting watching all but two of the GenZ young men friend zone themselves with my daughters and their sweet and attractive friends (dancers, all 6 to 8+), all homeschooled, ages 16-22, all but one of those 18+ looking for a good man to marry. It has me scratching my considerable head.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 3:54 PM  

Jay in DC wrote:I can only condone this 'have kids young' paradigm if they women are 100% ready for the -realities- of motherhood and able to understand they are not the center of the universe.
NOBODY is ever 100% ready for parenthood. Don't be a moron. God disagrees with you. 15-year-olds usually make perfectly fine mothers, and 30-somethings often do not. In fact, that's a part of
how we got where we are.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 3:56 PM  

kurt9 wrote:Increasing youthful lifespan to, say, 120 to 150 years would eliminate the tradeoff
Yeah, go back to the futurist society. Nobody wants your kind here.

Blogger SJ June 25, 2019 4:00 PM  

It's a shame even today I see supposedly conservative parents bragging about sending their daughters off to college. Are these guys not even aware of what goes on at a modern college campus?

I had my first kids young, then divorced an adulterous wife. Got remarried at 37 to a 22 year old woman I chose much better. If you're a masculine confident man who is not afraid to take life on you're a gem in this environment.

Have two kids with my lovely wife and she's pregnant again.

Back in my mid thirties as I was searching for a wife I found all the where did all the good men go articles beyond hilarious. We went to find young God fearing quality wives.

And despite mgtow whining there are a lot of quality women around. Their fathers just raised them to know their own value and not to date feckless cowards.

Blogger Feminism Must Die June 25, 2019 4:09 PM  

This is why I hate feminism so much. I am one of the ones who waited too long. Both my husbands' mom and my mom encouraged us to wait. They had kids young and were sorry that they didn't have a chance to "find themselves" or something along those lines.

I thought I had plenty of time, then I got two kinds of thyroid disease. Now pregnancy would be extremely dangerous to me and the child.

It was the worst pain I've ever felt, when I realized that I probably won't have children. On the other hand I'm homozygous for auto-immune disease, so maybe it's a good thing that I didn't pass that on.

It was my own mistake to wait, I know that, and I accept the consequences. But it still fills me with anger to have been lied to about a woman's purpose in life.

Blogger IrishFarmer June 25, 2019 4:16 PM  

If you're worried about being ready to have kids, you're not. You're too immature, youre irresponsible, you dont know enough, you lack perspective, etc. The problem is, you (probably) won't gain any of those things until a few years after your first child so better to get crackin' sooner rather than later and if you're that anxious about things, just remember that anxiety is gay.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 25, 2019 4:22 PM  

Ha! Thread-winner.

Blogger VD June 25, 2019 4:27 PM  

You are potentially dooming that child to a life of abject misery. I can only condone this 'have kids young' paradigm if they women are 100% ready for the -realities- of motherhood and able to understand they are not the center of the universe.

Zip it, Gamma. The adults are talking. Just go gently - and quietly - into that dark night.

Blogger RusticFederalist June 25, 2019 4:28 PM  

I was born in the mid 80s. I used to think a man should spend his early twenties acquiring useful skills to provide for a family, while a woman should be starting a family in her early twenties, but I've come to the point where I wished I had started having children when I turned 20.

If you can mentor a young man such that he is prepared to begin a family in his early twenties, surely you must be doing God's work. A person should not deliberately rob his, or her, children of the benefits of a youthful parent.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 4:37 PM  

Living the bachelor life is expensive enough as it is, especially with student debt on top of it. I can't imagine how this R-selected mindset of just having kids irresponsibly is any good.

Blogger Bullitt315 June 25, 2019 4:38 PM  

Millennial chicks can't even make fucking toast. Now you want them to make a child? And take care of it?

Necessity is the mother of invention. I'm about to have my first at 35 (guy) and wish we'd have started earlier. Partner is also 35 so we'll be lucky if we get a few.

Blogger ADS June 25, 2019 4:42 PM  

My wife and I are both 32. We've been married 9 years but both focused on our careers until we felt ready. A few months in to child #1 and we're both trying to find a way to abandon our precious careers and homestead and have as many children as our remaining fertility allows. I'm not consumed with regret but I do wish we'd started sooner. There's nothing like it.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len June 25, 2019 4:43 PM  

could panic women into starting families

Sounds like some people have already gone hysterical and lost touch with reality. "Panicked" into having kids by a tweet?

so they wouldn't feel they missed out later.

There is no known cure for Fear Of Missing Out. People who adopt such a principle to rule their life are never satisfied and rarely manage to ever look beyond themselves. It's Slug Life, an endless pursuit of pleasure and and an assiduous avoidance of pain, or even the slightest encumbrance.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 25, 2019 4:47 PM  

@arthurtintagel

1. You said it. Bachelor life is expensive. When you become a parent, the lollipops and fancy pants lose a lot of appeal.

2. You have backwards, dummy. Having children with both parents present is K-selection. Pumping and dumping kids on the welfare train, once again, your ‘bachelor life,’ is R-selection.

Blogger RusticFederalist June 25, 2019 4:51 PM  

ArthurTintagel wrote:Living the bachelor life is expensive enough as it is, especially with student debt on top of it. I can't imagine how this R-selected mindset of just having kids irresponsibly is any good.

The thing about K Selected Reproduction is that you still have to reproduce. K selected doesn't mean kill your line.

What good is student debt if it makes you too scared to even have children? Living is tough and expensive, but it sure beats rolling over and dying. Reevaluate your priorities, let Satan keep his cowardism, abandon defeatism, embrace dignity, choose good people to have relations with, and encourage others where you can.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 25, 2019 4:58 PM  

You are potentially dooming that child to a life of abject misery. I can only condone this 'have kids young' paradigm if they women are 100% ready for the -realities- of motherhood and able to understand they are not the center of the universe.

They don't come with a manual.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 5:00 PM  

@David Ray Milton

Africans are poor but have the highest population booms on the planet. Sure they're having kids, but they're all dirt poor. I don't see the appeal bringing my child into a world where I cant afford to give him or her an ideal life. As someone who grew up poor, its really not fun having to dig your way out of poverty with parents not being able to help.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 5:01 PM  

@RusticFederalist

you make it sound as if having a child eliminates all living expenses. This attitude is why the right is loosing touch with the younger generations.

Blogger Balam June 25, 2019 5:01 PM  

Jay in DC wrote:Millennial chicks can't even make fucking toast. Now you want them to make a child? And take care of it?

Something to note is that the skills and courage come out under fire. If you're the type to say that young men should be sent out to battle to harden them know that childbirth is the same for women - you don't really know their mettle until it happens and more people surprise you than you would think.

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 5:06 PM  

As a person who doesn't like concern trolls it's really not fun when they try to demoralize and derail.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 25, 2019 5:07 PM  

@ArthurTintagel

You live in the wealthiest civilization in the history of the world. You don’t even know what poverty is. You’re not an African, either.

At the end of the day, men get it done and men rise to the challenge. Gammas and weaklings whine about how they wish things were easier.

There is no greater joy than being a parent. You’ve been lied to. You can make it happen regardless of the circumstances or you can bitch-out and miss out on life.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len June 25, 2019 5:09 PM  

its really not fun

Who ever said it was supposed to be?

Blogger Kat June 25, 2019 5:13 PM  

ArthurTintagel wrote:@David Ray Milton

Africans are poor but have the highest population booms on the planet. Sure they're having kids, but they're all dirt poor. I don't see the appeal bringing my child into a world where I cant afford to give him or her an ideal life. As someone who grew up poor, its really not fun having to dig your way out of poverty with parents not being able to help.


For my kids the ideal life involves siblings to play with. They get so excited when there's a new one on the way. We drive used cars, shop thrift stores, and go vacationing in the off season. We can afford some luxuries like dance lessons, but I know they'd rather live with less if it meant another baby in the house. Kids are, in my experience, often far less materialistic than their parents.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 5:14 PM  

I don't see the appeal bringing my child into a world where I cant afford to give him or her an ideal life. As someone who grew up poor, its really not fun having to dig your way out of poverty with parents not being able to help.
MGTOW thread was a couple of days ago. Go Boomer there.
On second thought, go Boomer somewhere else, AOSHQ or HotAir, or something. Your concern is not really going to be appreciated here.

Blogger Tom June 25, 2019 5:14 PM  

The objections here to a woman being "forced" into early adulthood by giving birth are ridiculous. Nobody knows how to be a mother until she is obliged to be one. Necessity makes the mother, or shows her to be a complete failure at it. Both happen. Some women who look like they would be awful moms rise to the occasion. Some who look like they have it together crumble. But postponing motherhood until a woman somehow magically acquires the skills without the child whose presence in the world makes those skills possible in the first place is absurd.

Blogger Halvar Andersen June 25, 2019 5:14 PM  

For any of the guys here who got out of the Banana Empire and moved abroad, do you have any pointers or resources that might help with raising kids without the extended family support network?

Vox, you are making a difference. It strongly mitigates the black-pillers who hang out this side of the internet. It's appreciated.

Blogger RusticFederalist June 25, 2019 5:15 PM  

ArthurTintagel wrote:@RusticFederalist

you make it sound as if having a child eliminates all living expenses. This attitude is why the right is loosing touch with the younger generations.


That has no resemblance to what I said. I expect my expenses to increase as my capabilities in life grow. If I were to look back and see I have less expenses, then I would question my progress in life. It is wicked to love money so much that you don't take on new challenges, and new adventures in your life.

You are finding, and are inventing reasons to sow defeatism.

Blogger weka June 25, 2019 5:22 PM  

@kurt.

1. You cañnot cheat the wall and the fertility cliff. Women should have kids young. Over 30 and you are classified as elderly by obstetricians.

2. Since I'm adopted... My birth mum had problems binding and is now alone after two marriages failed. My adoptive mum raised four kids (all adopted) and has been married 61 years. Damages foods matter. To women -- marry young and stay married and raise kids leads to a happier old age.

3. Life expectancy is dropping due crap food and despair. A lack of public health and sanitation is bringing back typhus and Worse. We will not be extending life expectancy.

4. You can be fit and active into your eighties. But you will not be young, and it takes continuous effort.

Stop having fantasies about not being human. Deal with the raw facts that come with being a man or woman.

The reason there has been so much pushback is that someone spoke the truth and it hurt. You can either change or call it hateful. You cannot do both..

Blogger weka June 25, 2019 5:29 PM  

Move somewhere rural. Do a dirty job or a trade. Degrees are useless to a man now (MD included). Homeschool the kids, grow a garden, drive old cars, and love each other.

Listen to this grandpa. Your best moments do not cost money. They are time with your grandkids, your wife, and in worship.

Do not let this world steal them from you by saying you cannot afford them.

Blogger Gianna June 25, 2019 5:43 PM  

I am Gen X and at age 28 wasted no time in getting pregnant after marriage, much to the bewilderment of my coworkers and friends. Quite a few quickly followed my example and the ones who didn't regret it to this day. It seems to be very demoralizing to want to have more children and not be able to have them because you delayed it. A couple of my friends are hurt about the lies their boomer parents pushed on them. And they all see the irony of being
terrified of getting pregnant as college students when they all struggled to eventually get pregnant.

Blogger Robert What? June 25, 2019 5:53 PM  

Everything and I mean everything that young men and young women are told by society about how to succeed in life and with the opposite sex are all lies.

Blogger kurt9 June 25, 2019 5:54 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 5:55 PM  

Robert What? wrote:Everything and I mean everything that young men and young women are told by society about how to succeed in life and with the opposite sex are all lies.
But it makes bitter old cat ladies feel better bout their wasted lives and their dried up hoo-has. You have to think about what's really important in this life. And by that I mean, of course, Booomer feelings.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 25, 2019 5:56 PM  

kurt9 wrote:Well, I'm going to prove you wrong.
You go do that Princess. In the meantime, stop bothering serious people.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl June 25, 2019 5:57 PM  

I'm 52, have 8 grandkids, 6 of which are males. Stop dilly dallying, folks. Knock em up.
In fact, if you're from good huwite genetic stock, start donating buckets of that baby batter. We can repopulate this joint one way or another.

Blogger Jay in DC June 25, 2019 6:14 PM  

Vox--- Gamma? Just stop. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a gamma, and you literally know fuck all about me.

I have enough of a history elsewhere that I need prove nothing (and will not). If you don't see the merit in making sure women are actually -ready- to have a child and not doing it 'because' that shit is on you and your white knight brigade here.

You are normally fairly objective and thoughtful but not always. Children need not suffer because mommy has second thoughts later. That is the last I will say on this since it shouldn't even need to be said.

Blogger Dave Dave June 25, 2019 6:26 PM  

My father is 40 years older than me. You can imagine all the activities I missed out on doing with him because he was too old. Don't wait, lads. Children before 30.

Blogger Dave Dave June 25, 2019 6:30 PM  

@Jay in DC You certainly respond like a gamma by assuming that everyone is on the same page as you, and getting very pissy when you're exposed.

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 6:31 PM  

Jay do you just want young women to be as miserable and medicated as boomer women?

Blogger VFM #7634 June 25, 2019 6:32 PM  

@Jay in DC

It's quite possible your perspective about women is just a wee bit warped because of your living "in DC".

Blogger mgh June 25, 2019 6:39 PM  

I've never heard an old woman say "I wish I'd never had children." Not even the bitchiest ones divorced and estranged from their children ever tell younger women to avoid children. Not even the ones with kids who turned out troublesome or worthless. There are plenty of women saying "wait until you buy some crap I wish I had" but the ones who regret kids must be very rare. Or maybe just rare in Alabama.

Blogger Ledford Ledford June 25, 2019 6:40 PM  

Every day I miss the kids I never had. I miss my grandkids even more.

My wife and I got married late, started late at conceiving. Never happened. Did the fertility clinics, everything. You always hear from people who succeed at IVF, never from those who fail. Most fail. Looking back, IVF is probably a bad idea. Many reasons for this, I'll go into it if anyone is interested.

Ladies, please note: most IVF clinics don't take donor eggs from women over 26. Think about that. Peak fertility is a lot earlier than the world wants you to know.

You young people start having kids now or I'm throwing milkshakes at all of you. Then the boomers get theirs.

Blogger Jay in DC June 25, 2019 6:41 PM  

@88 - Mea culpa on that part, and is probably true. DC is not "the US" and the women here are by a large majority exactly as I described in that age cohort. Not 'all' but enough to be noticeable.

Also there is a lot being added to what I said. I didn't say 'don't have kids and become a fucking childless hag'. I simply said that a blanket statement encouraging pregnancy to those who are simply not capable of being mothers later is a recipe for disaster and another generation of single parent moms to match the current one. Why is this hard to comprehend? There is a WIDE gulf between 'just do it' and 'barren spinster', find the happy medium by encouraging --responsible-- women to not wait. We don't need more broken families and welfare queens Dafuq... this is not orbital telemetry or advanced physics. Basic stuff.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 25, 2019 6:49 PM  

@Jay In DC

Not everyone who argues with Vox is gamma, just the little whiny weasels who call others White Knights while they are the ones who are sticking up for the women to make sure they are 100% ready. Oh, and the children, you’re such a savior to the innocent children!!

You’re a feminist in male’s clothing. You’re perspective on women is tainted by the fact that you wish were sleeping around DC. Have fun being the last of your line.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2019 6:57 PM  

The rulers of Spokane are evil.

Who is more evil - the rulers of Spokane or those who would kill upon their orders for 30 pieces of pension? The badge gang have never been and likely never will be allies. They are basically criminals who operate under the color of law. Their evil has been on full display over the last few months in France. There is simply no order they will disobey.

Blogger David The Good June 25, 2019 7:08 PM  

#9 is on the way. God is good. No regrets on starting early and continuing.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei June 25, 2019 7:09 PM  

I think we can at least all agree that anyone who says "We're getting a dog first to see if we're ready for kids!" should be sterilized on the spot.

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2019 7:11 PM  

The endless retarded propaganda (lies) about having fun and waiting for kids until one can afford has surely been a major factor in the decline of white birth rates. There are no doubt other factors as well, but the propaganda was targeted at white females from the start. The lies started quite a long time ago with the rise of (((Friedan))) and the feminist push of the 1960s, when boomers where young. Like so many things, they took it up as their own idea and repeated in an even more noxious manner than earlier versions. Other races seem at least partly immune to the narrative, though I understand plummeting birth-rates have become a real problem in Japan along with all western countries.

Blogger Avalanche June 25, 2019 7:21 PM  

@46 "Hopefully a swarm of baby berserkers."

Deus vult, Sammi, DEUS VULT!!!

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 7:22 PM  

@RusticFederalist

So I'm wicked because I want my kids to grow up happy and not poor?

Blogger Gen. Kong June 25, 2019 7:25 PM  

For some reason this topic made me think of the passage from Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, which has been set to music countless times, but few can rival the splendid one by the author's contemporary Thomas Morley, whose tune can here can be heard here in an instrumental version.

O Mistress mine, where are you roaming?
O stay and hear! your true-love’s coming
That can sing both high and low;
Trip no further, pretty sweeting,
Journeys end in lovers’ meeting—
Every wise man’s son doth know.

What is love? ’tis not hereafter;
Present mirth hath present laughter;
What’s to come is still unsure:
In delay there lies no plenty,—
Then come kiss me, Sweet-and-twenty,
Youth’s a stuff will not endure.

Follow Beau's advice, which is God's command as well.

Blogger Off The Wall June 25, 2019 7:28 PM  

Ledford Ledford wrote:Every day I miss the kids I never had. I miss my grandkids even more.

My wife and I got married late, started late at conceiving. Never happened. Did the fertility clinics, everything. You always hear from people who succeed at IVF, never from those who fail. Most fail. Looking back, IVF is probably a bad idea. Many reasons for this, I'll go into it if anyone is interested.

Ladies, please note: most IVF clinics don't take donor eggs from women over 26. Think about that. Peak fertility is a lot earlier than the world wants you to know.

You young people start having kids now or I'm throwing milkshakes at all of you. Then the boomers get theirs.


Can confirm. Very similar experience.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:32 PM  

Get thee behind me.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:33 PM  

Very true. Didn't the Romans avoid kids or was that a myth?

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:36 PM  

We could wish for flying cars while we're at it!

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:39 PM  

Grew up poor? We had an outhouse and we were perfectly happy. Money's not any indicator of happiness

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:47 PM  

I think this is a candidate for thread winner.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:49 PM  

Promise?

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 25, 2019 7:54 PM  

Rich doesn't equal happy poor doesn't equal sad. They don't even overlap for kids.

Blogger Linus June 25, 2019 8:02 PM  

I got married at 23 (my wife too) and we had our first at 24. I have 4. When my wife turned 30, she developed complications from an ectopic pregnancy that turned into endometriosis and infertility. If that hadn't happened, I'd love to have had 8. Someone up thread talking about missing the kids they didn't have--I'll testify the feeling occurs even to those who do have some children.

I preach to anyone and everyone within earshot to have babies right away because we are guaranteed nothing in this life. If we had waited until we were 30, like these feminist harpies are encouraging, we'd have zero, and my life would be infinitely poorer for it. My children are the best thing ever.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel June 25, 2019 8:08 PM  

Shortly after 9/11, when it was almost impossible to get away from the injunctions not to regard Mohammed Atta as an authentic practitioner of Islam and President Bush was referring to that cult as the "great religion of peace", despite its history, I was desperate for a break from the 24/7 discussion, and I happened on an article by an upscale (Manhattan, I think) OB-GYN who related experiences with his patients,

He went on to discuss how these women, steeped in nonsense like "40 is the new 30", careerism and 40+ Hollywood mothers would arrive in his office in their late 30's or early 40's confused by their infertility, despite dutifully getting off contraception and scorching their bed-sheets.

Many were fantastic successes according to the world, partners in white shoe law firms and similar high pay, high status positions. They simply had no idea that their minds became ready for children five to ten years after their prospects for conception dropped precipitously. He spoke of inconsolable women crying as he had to explain that they probably waited too long-that even with fertility drugs, they were probably closer to menopause than motherhood.

It is worth noting that despite all the advances in prenatal care; any woman becoming becoming pregnant for the first time at 35 or more is automatically diagnosed with a condition called "elderly primigravida" because it entails various risks,and requires additional monitoring.

@98

You aren't wicked, you are foolish. Wealth and happiness are not the same thing. I see teenagers growing up today who have every material comfort and are miserable. My late grandmother grew up in relative poverty, but I don't recall her wishing she had more money and fewer siblings.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 25, 2019 8:18 PM  

We had as many as we could. I am blessed with my three champions. They fill me with pride every day.

Blogger weka June 25, 2019 8:22 PM  

Congratulations!

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 8:51 PM  

Gott mit uns

Blogger Rhys June 25, 2019 9:08 PM  

"Could panic women into starting families..."

Man, these fuckers really do hate kids don't they?

Blogger VFM #7634 June 25, 2019 9:12 PM  

@Stg58

We need as many as we can get... good on ya.

@Rhys
If you consider that absolutely everything they're in favor of harms the human race in one way or another...

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 9:28 PM  

@107 they do when my son is living with me into his 20's because I couldn't afford to get him into a good university. and when hes miserable because women have no interest in a guy living through the struggle due to hypergamy.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 9:30 PM  

@104 yes but failing to help your kids reach independence which costs money isn't much better. People here seem to only focus on the joy of raising small children, I'm talking about raising them into adulthood.

Blogger Doktor Jeep June 25, 2019 9:45 PM  

Glad to see people waking up on this topic.

The enemy does not care if we all become a bunch of Rush Limbaughs and Anne Coulters. They fear us worse if everybody was silent and had at least 3 kids.

Some of us cannot, or did not, or made the wrong choices. I believed in all the lies. And Vox makes mention of how the boomers lied to GenX women? He's holding back. They did more than lie to "our" women: they weaponized them and turned them against us. This is why every boomer deserves to end up beaten to death in a nursing home by a West African orderly.

So I'm the guy the married guys envy for two seconds. Do not envy me. You see my classic car? Yes I built those zoomies myself. But if your Camaro is rotting on blocks because wifey poo has too many honeydo lists for you, it's not the fault of marriage. It's yours. And if you are fat because you are fed too well or spend your marriage getting fat and watching TV, that's your fault, not the institution of marriage. Everything the got wrong with marriage - and dating - and the plot was stolen from men, was done to run men off from it. It was a three pronged attack, actually. Men were shown that marriage was "yes dear" servitude at the cost of everything and "it costs at least a million dollars to raise a kid!" - remember all those articles? Whoever wrote them deserves to get their door knocked on by investigators someday. Women were sold on the Sex and the City lifestyle, while at the same time, it was also pushed that it's perfectly normal for a woman to permanently gain 80 pounds to birth an 8 lb baby. No woman wants to be a hamplanet, and no man wants to be married to one. But no let's not address the crap they put in the food, the side effects of the medications, and all that. And it actually does not happen as often as we were told.
The other prong was the poor display of marriage the boomers performed for us. Even for those agile enough not to believe the lies, or somehow think they could escape it, a typical boomer marriage and therefore familial horror that many of my peers had to go through pretty much had at least half of them, by the time they were in high school, swearing they would never ever get married. No-fault divorce didn't help. I had peers who would be friends in June, then the parents get divorced that summer, and in September they came back without souls, and some of them bullied me. That's body-snatcher level nerve wracking. Let me tell you.


That classic car is all I have after spending years working on it alone and it was given to me by a friend who didn't have time to restore it because he wanted a family. My garden is larger than most entire properties of my neighbors and the flowers work in vain to bloom for my jaundiced eyes. My house is big enough for a family but my dusty halls ring hollow. I could eat steak and lobster every day were I not frugal, and play video games every night had I nothing better to do. I could just give it all up and become a bum and nobody goes hungry. Do I find any love at this age? Oh I do, with women who are female versions of me. And I can tell you what a wonderful amusement park of horrors it is to try to love someone who is incapable of it. You think the 30-something who got pumped and dumped is bad, roll forward another 20 years. You get to the point where you think "I should be sad, but I'm not" - so the damage manifests itself in insomnia or some other strange effect. I did what I was told. I believed the lies. This is the cost.

Take the advice: have kids. Marry young. Bond. Live forever through reproductive strategy.
EVERYTHING about why you should not, is a complete and total lie. Everything.

I'll take point and don't trip over my corpse.

Blogger John Rockwell June 25, 2019 9:49 PM  

Men can afford to wait to have kids.

But not women. Because women have limited fertility window where mutations start to accumulate at the latter part of their fertility. Down syndrome and other diseases are more likely the older the mother gets.

Blogger Kat June 25, 2019 9:52 PM  

ArthurTintagel wrote:@107 they do when my son is living with me into his 20's because I couldn't afford to get him into a good university. and when hes miserable because women have no interest in a guy living through the struggle due to hypergamy.

More shame on you for not steering him into a good trade school and seeking out the kind of community that values hard work and accomplishment over empty credentials.

Blogger Sargent.matrim June 25, 2019 9:53 PM  

Spot on.

Blogger furor kek tonicus June 25, 2019 10:13 PM  

47. kurt9 June 25, 2019 3:46 PM
Increasing youthful lifespan to, say, 120 to 150 years would eliminate the tradeoff of having kids vs child-free life because it would give you the time to do both.


you don't know much about biology, do you?

women are born with all the eggs they will ever have.

which means that every egg a woman has is EXACTLY AS OLD AS SHE IS.

50 year old eggs ain't going work as well as 20 year old eggs, no matter how much medical enhancement you've got on offer.

and that's assuming that all the eggs haven't died in utero ( women lose about 2/3 or more of their eggs before even having puberty and lose more than a thousand eggs every month after puberty ).

Blogger Cassie June 25, 2019 10:17 PM  

I’m the wife of Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass, who used to comment here (he still reads but just doesn’t comment due to his hatred of Google).

We got married in October, I got pregnant on the honeymoon, then miscarried a week after discovering I was pregnant. My doctor was all over doing blood work to find out if there was anything we could do to prevent another miscarriage, and found many things that we could do to prevent another one. We were told that it would be best to wait two months before getting pregnant in order for my hormones to regulate so as to lower the chance of another miscarriage, so we mostly abstained for two months. Then I got pregnant right away again (going strong this time). My hubby jokes first cycle, every cycle!” to paraphrase the Seals in training (first time, every time!”). I just turned 34. I didn’t intentionally wait to have kids, I just was unsuccessful at finding a husband until now, despite doing the best I knew how to do to find one. We plan on having as many as possible, but who knows how many that will be in the end. I used to think it was a tragedy that I had no children from a younger age, then I realized that if I had been able to get married younger I probably would’ve repeatedly miscarried. Reason being that the problems causing my miscarriage aren’t age related, and it’s not common to find an OBGYN who wants to help you get pregnant again like mine, or has the knowledge to help you deal with any issues (mine is NaPro trained). So in my case it ended up being Providence I think that I had to wait and suffer for as long as I did. But in general, it is absolutely better not to wait to have kids if at all possible.

So many people say you have to have $X amount of a large sum of money laying around in order to be able to afford kids, but it’s not true. My parents never had much money at all; we lived paycheck to paycheck for the most part the entire time I was growing up, yet I had a wonderful childhood. Did we live in a big house? No, most of my childhood was spent living in a trailer. But it was a nice quiet neighborhood with lots of good people and kids to play with, and cousins living right across the street. I had everything I ever needed, and a bit too much of what I wanted (I was a bit spoiled). We weren’t loaded with money and it didn’t matter one bit. My hubby grew up in a wealthy family and had the world at his fingertips, yet I still wouldn’t trade my childhood for his any day for any reason because mine was so enjoyable. Money isn’t everything; don’t waste time putting off kids just to get more money and stuff first. I mean, what good is all of that if you don’t have the family to go with it?

Blogger sammibandit June 25, 2019 10:21 PM  

>The enemy does not care if we all become a bunch of Rush Limbaughs and Anne Coulters.

They don't care if parents are older, either.

>They fear us worse if everybody was silent and had at least 3 kids.

Bears repeating. I came up in life through the "at-risk, alternative music scene". The people I am still friends with or make friends with are tight with their parents and siblings or had kids even if they were scared their hedonism would make them wretches.

>Some of us cannot, or did not, or made the wrong choices. I believed in all the lies. And Vox makes mention of how the boomers lied to GenX women? He's holding back. They did more than lie to "our" women: they weaponized them and turned them against us. This is why every boomer deserves to end up beaten to death in a nursing home by a West African orderly.

Bingo. They made them terrified of completing the lifecycle of the mammal and willfully retarded them into x is the new x-20. And then they wanted to wear juniors miss sizes past 17 too!

Blogger Ledford Ledford June 25, 2019 10:29 PM  

Comments now well over 120 and not one saying "Thank God I didn't have kids." Think hard on that, dear youth. Several of us are childless, none of us recommend it.

Don't be a dumbass.

Blogger kurt9 June 25, 2019 11:11 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:kurt9 wrote:Well, I'm going to prove you wrong.

You go do that Princess. In the meantime, stop bothering serious people.


I get it. It just isn't your guys' cup of it. Its my thing, not yours. You won't hear from me on this again.

Blogger John Rockwell June 25, 2019 11:13 PM  

@37

"Gen-Xer here. We listened too much to the "You need the career and lots of money first" voices from most of our boomer relatives and wait until our 30s to start."

That advice could only apply to the man since he doesn't have the fertility window of the woman. Such advice for women is suicide.

Blogger John Rockwell June 25, 2019 11:15 PM  

@124
"Comments now well over 120 and not one saying "Thank God I didn't have kids." Think hard on that, dear youth. Several of us are childless, none of us recommend it."

Unless one has a personality of a monk or plan to be a monk. Then yes that's true.

Blogger BriarRabbit June 25, 2019 11:25 PM  

"You are potentially dooming that child to a life of abject misery."

You are the type who would defend abortion for the same reason. GTFO.

Blogger BriarRabbit June 25, 2019 11:27 PM  

"From the vast majority of iphone addicted robot girls I've met that seems like a VERY tall order, at best."

They were only texting because your gamma behaviour made you revolting to them. Still GTFO.

Blogger Unknown June 26, 2019 12:03 AM  

@The critics of Vox's advice:

You must keep in mind that when he is berating dumbasses and gamma, he is talking about software engineers, biology professors, people who achieved high enough LSAT's to be accepted into top tier law schools, etc. His idea of slackers and yours are two very different things.

We are talking about people in their 30's who flat can't support themselves, might be on their third NARCAN revival, and, like the 30 some year old "mother" I saw just today, have to bum a smoke off someone.

THESE (and they are legion) are the type people most people have in mind when they scoff at such a notion as "just go out and have those kids" you and your (maybe literally retarded) doe eyed husband.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 26, 2019 12:15 AM  

they do when my son is living with me into his 20's because I couldn't afford to get him into a good university. and when hes miserable because women have no interest in a guy living through the struggle due to hypergamy.
It has nothing whatever to do with money.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 26, 2019 12:29 AM  

@20

"So are the Seattle SWAT team, dienw."

Don't make rash assumptions.

Most SWAT team members tend to be former military, and extremely traditionalist.

Did the SWAT team shoot any of the protesting parents?
No?
Then they're probably a group who, when the shit hits the fan, will take out some of the Seattle city-clowncil, mayor, etc.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 12:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azimus June 26, 2019 12:37 AM  

I'm a late Xer born in late 70's. I'm glad we had out 4 when we did - no not because they're exhausting, but because as my wife and I hit our 40's are kids are incredibly helpful. They want to mow the lawn, they want to cook supper, change the oil on the truck, ride to the mailbox to drop off the bills, etc etc. I've never been so busy, and truthfully I don't know what I'd do without kids who can contribute... if they were ages 0-6 right now I don't know what I would do. The human body is more or less ready to start making babies in your late teens - there's a reason for that. Make babies while the making's good.

Blogger marco moltisanti June 26, 2019 12:40 AM  

Lots of people up there saying it's awful to have kids in middle age. I was in my mid-forties when my first was born (wife is much younger). It's still an absolute joy. Not saying you should put it off like I did, but if you finally have the opportunity at my age don't avoid it because people tell you you're too broken down and tired or something.

Helps of course if you've been eating healthy, lifting weights, avoiding tobacco and alcohol, etc.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 12:48 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 12:51 AM  

Never smoked, and don't drink more than a few times a year. Thank you for your encouraging words, as I struggle with precisely the worries you've articulated. God bless you.

Blogger Ty Richards June 26, 2019 12:55 AM  

I’m so glad I accidentally knocked up my now wife when she was 19 and I was 23. Then I on purpose knocked up my wife many more times. We now have 5 kids and counting and she is only 28. She doesn’t regret it and neither do I.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 1:05 AM  

Third time's the charm? Sorry.

10 year old me thought I'd be married and raising kids by the time I was 20 or so. Stuff happened, but still at 15 I was determined that I'd get married to my best female friend and have a passel of kids with her by 25.

More stuff happened, she graduated and went to college, I spent time in hospitals and doctors offices, and my gamma stupidity and insecurity burned that relationship to ash two years later.

Now I'm older, somewhat wiser by God's grace, my health is much better, and I'm working on "graduating gamma" while helping take care of my family and learning useful skills both for homesteading and for working in the trades.

But I've never had a real, paying job, aside from landscaping, am only now learning to drive, have never been in a serious romantic relationship with a woman, and I'm 27 years old.

I don't want to wait until I'm too old to keep up with my kids to have kids.

Unfortunately, I don't know if I will be able to avoid that. What I do know is that I will never surrender to the blackpills and demonic whisperings to give up, that I'm a hopeless loser with nothing to offer, that it's too late for me.

I can't say I go to church regularly, unless you count the "wherever two or three gather in my name, there I am with them" type of church, or MoTW, etc, but that's also going to change.

If I could get married tomorrow, and have kids born by next year, I would, though I can't imagine how I'd provide for them. I don't need to live more, or have more fun, or sow wild oats or anything else. I just want to be able to feed my family, and to *have* a family to feed and provide for, and lead with whatever wisdom, strength, and grace God has seen fit to bless me.

I know I'm in no position to provide for a family right now, but then I'm in no position to attract a woman with whom I'd want to raise a family, either. But I know I won't be "waiting" once I've improved my position and my situation and actually gotten such a woman to marry me.

If you can have kids, for God's sake, do it! God doesn't generally offer suggestions; he issues commands. And obeying this particular command is just plain good sense!

Blogger RigsOfChad June 26, 2019 1:09 AM  

Late 20's Millenial here. Since being introduced to red pill, man-o-sphere, and Traditionalist Christian content, I have only learned about more ways to disqualify women rather than qualify them for marriage. Despite having very little dating history, I always intended on starting a family but am growing more uncertain about my chances because my perception of women around me has changed drastically. I know my flaws and do not view myself as a secret king, but even the notion of having successful dates seems out-of-reach, never mind marriage. I guess I would describe myself as a reluctant MGTOW at this stage.

Blogger Jill June 26, 2019 2:00 AM  

Even the pastor who married my husband and me counseled us to have a birth control plan and wait at least two years to have kids because we needed time to get to know each other...or something. We've been living in an upside down reality for too long, denying the procreation function of marriage. Not just denying it, but refusing even at the church level to bless a marriage with fecundity. No wonder men and women are messed up. Giving over mentally to procreation allows a husband and wife to understand who they are as men and women on a deep soul level.

Blogger Lone wolf June 26, 2019 2:25 AM  

"Even the pastor who married my husband and me counseled us to have a birth control plan and wait at least two years to have kids because we needed time to get to know each other...or something."

Clear case of churchianity, wouldn't be surprised if said "marriage counseling" took place in a Cuckservative red state to boot.

Blogger cyrus83 June 26, 2019 2:51 AM  

Young-20s me would not have made a good husband and father. Mid-30s me is now working a lot harder than I would have had to 10 years ago to undo a lot of self-inflicted damage from my younger stupid self.

Good women are still out there, a sound church is a great place to meet them.

Blogger Harambe June 26, 2019 3:01 AM  

cyrus83 wrote:Young-20s me would not have made a good husband and father. Mid-30s me is now working a lot harder than I would have had to 10 years ago to undo a lot of self-inflicted damage from my younger stupid self.

Good women are still out there, a sound church is a great place to meet them.


This is why we marry younger women. You're nice and settled in your career, and her eggs are still nice and fresh.

Blogger Jay in DC June 26, 2019 3:06 AM  

@140 - It is all your imagination man. Listen to all the fucking retards here mouthing off. Most of whom haven't been on a date in a hot minute or are married to the same busted bitch they've been with forever.

I generally discard the comments here because it is a retard brigade for the most part and a 'Secret King Army' of the highest order. But since you put it out there in an honest way instead of this gay ass chest thumping like all the rest.

Yes- It is hard for millennial men to make this thing happen with the absurd sense of entitlement most of these broads have today. Your climb to what you want is MUCH harder than it was even a decade ago, and certainly before that. -However-, keep on keeping on. You know all the right moves if you have read as much as you stated here.

I've sifted through hordes of THOTs and there are some needles in the haystack. The alternative is not a pleasant or fulfilling life unfortunately. So you got lemons due to the zeitgeist, make some MFing lemonade.

-Peace-
J.

Blogger HarlequinWolf June 26, 2019 3:15 AM  

"Another added: 'I'm in my twenties. I intend to live life before I have children. It's nonsense that it gets harder to conceive the older you get. Your fertility is determined the moment your ovaries are formed. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Reproduction is not validation.'"

The self delusion here is colossal.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 26, 2019 3:16 AM  

Jay in DC get out of DC, then. You'll see a whole nother country. Your perspective is skewed.

Blogger Jill June 26, 2019 3:32 AM  

"Clear case of churchianity, wouldn't be surprised if said "marriage counseling" took place in a Cuckservative red state to boot."

In this case, it was Portand, OR, where you can now have the state health plan pay for your transgender surgery. I'm informed by my sister, who still lives there, that the only church there standing against the transgender BS is the Catholic church. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Catholic church is also still anti birth control.

Blogger Thad Tuiol June 26, 2019 3:56 AM  

@117 Doktor Jeep

Wow, that's some powerful confessional stuff there, Doc. Thank you for being brutally honest about your life and hopefully, some young white buck still in his 20s will read your post and think twice about listening to the siren song emanating from MGTOW island...

Blogger Uncle Maffoo June 26, 2019 4:28 AM  

As a reader and very infrequent commenter here, I'd like to request prayers of support. I'm getting married at the end of next month; I'm 38, my wife to be is 26, and we're going to start having kids immediately. We figure we could have at least 5 by the time she's 35, but we won't stop there. It's not as if I wanted to "wait" so long, but I've had various physical and mental issues that have locked me into a lifetime Omega status. It's rather miraculous I was able to get any woman whatsoever willing to marry and have children with me. If I could have married her, or someone like her, when I was 24, I would have. Go complain to the very average (and below average) women I tried pursuing over the years, some of whom are pushing 40 and still single and childless.

At times, I could see myself living as a quiet bachelor, content with spending my time in prayer, Bible study, and reading mathematics. But part of me also doesn't want to wake up when I'm 50 and no wife and children by my side.

Having 5+ kids while everyone else in my cohort has at most 2 will be my "Omega revenge."

Blogger RigsOfChad June 26, 2019 4:31 AM  

@147 Stg58/AnimalMother

I live in a red state and honestly feel disillusionment. I have been in a unique situation in which I was exposed to thousands of young white women in their 20's over the last two years and I came out of the experience more cynical than I entered it. Near the beginning, I was actually hopeful that I might be able to enter my first relationship due to the exposure and sheer numbers game but ultimately I didn't pursue anything.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit June 26, 2019 4:41 AM  

@45 It really is a puzzler. The folks who come up with a blue collar Almacks will make bank.

@95 I get the principle: People who think dogs = babies are crazypants.

Nonetheless, nothing prepares you for toddlers like training rescue dogs. And you can start that early, too, while you're still single.

@99 Mamma filk:

O infant mine, why are you sleeping?
O stay and hear thy mother's pleading
That can sing both high and low

Dream no further pretty sweeting
Tummies fill at every feeding
Every wise man's babe doth know.

In delay, there lies no plenty,
So come drain thy bottle empty
Milk's a stuff will not endure.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo June 26, 2019 4:46 AM  

RigsOfChad wrote:Late 20's Millenial here. Since being introduced to red pill, man-o-sphere, and Traditionalist Christian content, I have only learned about more ways to disqualify women rather than qualify them for marriage. Despite having very little dating history, I always intended on starting a family but am growing more uncertain about my chances because my perception of women around me has changed drastically. I know my flaws and do not view myself as a secret king, but even the notion of having successful dates seems out-of-reach, never mind marriage. I guess I would describe myself as a reluctant MGTOW at this stage.

Every man's first great battle is with himself. The battle is against giving in to complacency, sloth, and despair. Improving yourself relentlessly and being ruthless about what you do and do not want is how you fight. It's women's fault they suck; it's not their fault that YOU suck.

Blogger Brett baker June 26, 2019 6:22 AM  

Contrary to what some say, couples still send daughters to college to find husbands.

Blogger DonReynolds June 26, 2019 7:10 AM  

My Dad told me if you wait until you can afford children, you will never have any. He married young and had three and stayed married for almost 60 years with the same woman.

I remember the woman who had a number of children, all close in age. Younger women asked her how she could divide her love and affection over so many children. She said....you do not divide, you multiply. By my own experience, that is true, because they are not clones or puppies. Children are all unique individuals, with their own personality and thinking. That would be true, even for twins.

I had six children with the same wife, 4 girls and 2 boys. When we got married, the week after she graduated high school, she was 18 and I was 30. The first baby was born on the 18th of May a year later and our first anniversary was the 20th.

The age gap was not particularly unusual in our family. Her parents were 26 years apart in age, had 4 children, and were together until he died after retirement. My grandfather was 42 when he married my grandmother at 16, and they had six sons and one daughter....my Mom. They were also 26 years apart in age.

I do believe there is somebody for everybody, no matter what good or bad traits a man or a woman might have. Hopefully, you will find that person and make a go of it, but expect the usual disappointments and inconveniences from time to time. If you want it to work, there is always a way, and you will find that way.

Blogger VD June 26, 2019 7:41 AM  

ultimately I didn't pursue anything.

There is your problem. Think like a hunter, not a science fiction protagonist.

Blogger VD June 26, 2019 7:42 AM  

Listen to all the fucking retards here mouthing off. Most of whom haven't been on a date in a hot minute or are married to the same busted bitch they've been with forever.

What part of "zip it, Gamma" was hard to understand? Go take your fear and despair somewhere else.

Blogger LibertyPortraits June 26, 2019 8:00 AM  

Last year I had a thought that it would have been better if I had married right out of high school. Date around as much as possible in high school and find the most compatible girl. She would be at her prime in terms of energy and hardiness. We could have kids early on who would be in their teenage-hood and ready to move out while I'm in my later 30s, rather than dealing with a toddler and young kid in my late 30s. I did absolutely nothing of value in my 20s anyway. If my 20s were going to be so poor and worthless, might as well have been poor and worthless but raising a kid. It might have prevented me from video game addiction, porn addiction, laziness, etc.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 26, 2019 8:45 AM  

It's you not where you are. There are tons of young marriage age girls in our town. Grab them fast because they get married and have kids young.

Blogger Brick Hardslab June 26, 2019 8:54 AM  

We were poor as Church mice and managed several children on that. Now that we have more and a nice Victorian house for kids and grandkids to enjoy I cannot imagine life without them. To all the eugenics, economics, social bull reasons not to have kids, shut up. You are literally not the future so you have zero say in this conversation. Go preach your father's message elsewhere. Beau was right, be fruitful and multiply is a commandment. Follow it.

Blogger furor kek tonicus June 26, 2019 8:55 AM  

98. ArthurTintagel June 25, 2019 7:22 PM
So I'm wicked because I want my kids to grow up happy and not poor?



why are you conflating wealth with happiness?


113. Rhys June 25, 2019 9:08 PM
Man, these fuckers really do hate kids don't they?



rather, children interfere with their desire to use the women as sex toys.

Blogger Whitecloak June 26, 2019 9:04 AM  

These threads have made me sick of the MGTOW, hedonist, etc. contingents. I think I understand why VD doesn't want to take the time to deal with gamma, now.

Gammas are fucking tiresome.

Blogger RC June 26, 2019 9:12 AM  

Dave Dave wrote, "My father is 40 years older than me. You can imagine all the activities I missed out on doing with him because he was too old. Don't wait, lads. Children before 30."

Though it is near imperative for a woman to marry young and start popping kids, what you're writing could discourage the older men. I had my last of 5 at 40. She's 18 now and I still do pushups with her sitting on my back and she loves it.

Unless serious health problems present themselves, men can stay healthy and active for much longer than most do. They just have to work at it. If something were to happen to my wife, I might consider having more kids even now. I would't be there as long, but the kid would have the gift of life and a great extended family in which to lean.

So to you men commenting and reading, if you've not been successful yet in getting things going, don't give up, just get to work. Whether you're 20 or 40 the main job is making yourself attractive to women and finding one worth marrying. Then you can lead her into the joys of marriage and motherhood. It pleases God and nothing is more satisfying.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 26, 2019 9:39 AM  

@161

Why do you jump to the extreme that i just want one night stands? I'm not against having a family. I'd rather just do it knowing that i can ensure my kids live a fulfilling life instead of the selfish tradcon mindset of "hurr i had babies, take that libs!".

Blogger CM June 26, 2019 9:48 AM  

Can confirm: a guy who had first child at 25ish. I still think that was too late, youd be amazed how quickly it becomes very difficult to lose sleep, to run around, and so on.

Yeah. I had my first at 25. Husband was 28. I wanted far earlier, but the dating aspect is simply ridiculous.

There has to be better ways to meeting someone than what is currently going on. I pretty much married the first Christian guy who wanted me... and I didn't meet him at church. Couldn't find any single men there.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 26, 2019 10:10 AM  

ArthurTintagel wrote:I'm not against having a family. I'd rather just do it knowing that i can ensure my kids live a fulfilling life ...

You want a guarantee about the future? Maybe a pony, too?

If you want your kids to have a fulfilling life, the necessary precondition is to have kids. The next step is to spend lots of time with them. All the rest is up to them, and God.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 10:10 AM  

@ Uncle Maffoo

Prayers sent, brother. Congratulations on finding and winning your bride. God is good!

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 26, 2019 10:22 AM  

RC wrote:Though it is near imperative for a woman to marry young and start popping kids, what you're writing could discourage the older men. I had my last of 5 at 40.

I had my last at 42. A great-great grandfather had his last at 70.

Blogger Kat June 26, 2019 11:17 AM  

My dad was 43 with his last. We all went hiking, camping, etc. It's not like he suddenly turned decrepit and unable to move at 45. My FIL is in his 60s and can work you into the ground.

And if you haven't been completely screwing around with your life the children have later in life might get less of your energy but more of your wisdom.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd June 26, 2019 1:04 PM  

Cassie wrote:... I just was unsuccessful at finding a husband until now, despite doing the best I knew how to do to find one.

Started late, didn't really want to but couldn't find a husband earlier. So many women have said something like this in these threads. We are surely doing something very wrong as a society for this to be possible, let alone a fairly common problem.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 26, 2019 1:04 PM  

He who dies with the most toys dies lonely and miserable. He who dies with the most number of kids and grand kids, dies peacefully surrounded by loved ones.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo June 26, 2019 1:27 PM  

CM wrote:Can confirm: a guy who had first child at 25ish. I still think that was too late, youd be amazed how quickly it becomes very difficult to lose sleep, to run around, and so on.

Yeah. I had my first at 25. Husband was 28. I wanted far earlier, but the dating aspect is simply ridiculous.

There has to be better ways to meeting someone than what is currently going on. I pretty much married the first Christian guy who wanted me... and I didn't meet him at church. Couldn't find any single men there.


You really couldn't find any single men there, or just none who were attractive enough to be visible? I had no problems "meeting" women at church, it's just they seemed to steadfastly avoid dating any Christian men until they were into their Epiphany Phase.

Blogger chronoblip June 26, 2019 1:43 PM  

"Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." - 1 Timothy 2:15

Hard to continue a process which has been delayed due to solipsistic delusions.

Blogger Lone wolf June 26, 2019 2:38 PM  

"In this case, it was Portand, OR..."

Well then churchianity is a given.

Blogger CM June 26, 2019 4:24 PM  

You really couldn't find any single men there, or just none who were attractive enough to be visible?

I think there may be two sides to this statement.

I church bounced for a while. Part of it was home-sickness and having a hard time finding a new church home. But I won't lie, some of it was looking around the church and not seeing any single men.

Yeah, I probably missed some and sticking in one place for longer than a couple months may have drawn some out.

But there's something else here, too. I met my husband at a party and thought he was gorgeous. I then proceeded to ignore him for the next 18 months as he tried to say wave to me at work and I just didn't see him. Don't know what it was. It took another co worker to say his name before it clicked and then I saw him everywhere. I didn't know he was a coworker so never expected to find him there.

If he had been more bold, it wouldn't have taken 18 months before we started dating.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo June 26, 2019 5:25 PM  

If he had been more bold, it wouldn't have taken 18 months before we started dating.

Christian men are hammered so intensely with the "premarital sex is bad, mmkay!" and "lusting in your heart makes you an adulterer!" from such an early age that they reach adulthood without knowing how to pursue women or wondering if they even should in the first place.

Blogger Uncle Maffoo June 26, 2019 5:41 PM  

I met my husband at a party and thought he was gorgeous. I then proceeded to ignore him for the next 18 months as he tried to say wave to me at work and I just didn't see him.

Wait, so he clearly tried to get your attention for 18 months while you ignored him and you say he should have "been more bold"? What else was he supposed to do?

Blogger CM June 26, 2019 6:03 PM  

Wait, so he clearly tried to get your attention for 18 months while you ignored him and you say he should have "been more bold"? What else was he supposed to do?

Actually say hi? Sit down at my table at lunch instead of his desk?

I can't really help that I didn't see him. It wasn't his looks, though.

Christian men are hammered so intensely with the "premarital sex is bad, mmkay!" and "lusting in your heart makes you an adulterer!" from such an early age that they reach adulthood without knowing how to pursue women or wondering if they even should in the first place.

I get that. I really do. But good girls generally aren't taught to pursue men, either - and we aren't taught how to be approachable while holding appropriate boundaries. The church has failed my generation when it comes to building relationships with the opposite sex.

Ominous Cowherd has it right - there are some serious social issues involved here and casting blame at each other isn't really a solution.

I'd like to know how those of us who see it can create our own social contract where we teach the next generation how to respect boundaries, boldly pursue, humbly accept, and graciously enforce boundaries so that our sons and daughters can more easily find each other.

I don't want your 12 kids and my 3 kids going through the same hellscape of confusion that you, Cassie, and some of my friends have been through.

Blogger ArthurTintagel June 26, 2019 6:39 PM  

@166 Ominious Cowherd

"If you want your kids to have a fulfilling life, the necessary precondition is to have kids. The next step is to spend lots of time with them. All the rest is up to them, and God."

Yeah ill help the wife birth them, and then they can raise themselves. Spoken like a true boomer. The fact that you can even say something so stupid while lacking any self awareness just proves the last two generations have nothing but shaming because its the only way to cope with defeat.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare June 26, 2019 8:18 PM  

Stop lying, ArthurTintagel, you won't fool anyone here; Ominous Cowherd said no such thing. That you interpreted the statement "The next step is to spend lots of time with them" as meaning "I'll help the wife birth them then they can raise themselves" is a revealing reflection of your own character and attitude, not Cowherd's.

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 9:00 AM  

Travel go to good restaurants party first then have children.
I think it is an incrdibly idiotic advice. And yet, they managed to install it as a norm

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 11:37 AM  

Things eventually work out

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 2:39 PM  

100%, noy having kids until everything is right is either retarded or delusional

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 2:46 PM  

You need to spread this more

Blogger Winterborn June 27, 2019 4:56 PM  

Something I can comment on for once...

I'm 48, my daughter is 3.5. Do the math. Snidely Whiplash I respectfully disagree with your comment about "at 45" Having started at 45, it was dang tough for a while with lack of sleep. You step up, no choice. It's just really tough. Think about how much having kiddos changes you. See?

We'd tried for 8-9 years before, basically had given up after 4 miscarriages (heart breaking every. single. time.). Ectopic, remove the Fallopian etc. Our Dr. was awesome on that, said no worries, it'll just pull the egg across etc. It did. We were looking at adoption as well.

We were at less than 5 in 1000 chance. Maybe 2.5 in 1000? Probably less. My wife is a bit older than I am. High risk of course. The magic of medical now days, blood test that told us everything from blood type to something like 21 prenatal/genetic (more?) issues that would have stopped everything. Etc etc.

At 45 You CAN do it, it is just as tough as you know it to be. We both wish all 4 had been perfect. Still sad to never meet, greet and raise those children.

Our joke of why we don't have a boat is that the school/day care is a really great boat.

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 5:45 PM  

Usa poor is rest of the world middle class

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 5:46 PM  

This is great wisdom
Thank you

Blogger Lovekraft June 27, 2019 6:27 PM  

Some type of Charter of Rights for Men (with legal teeth) that would reverse the alimony/child-support laws and regulations would help

Blogger Daniel June 27, 2019 6:40 PM  

In spanish here "perrijos" perros + hijos, dogs + sons word play.
I agree with you, they need to grow up

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