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Monday, June 24, 2019

Eliminating student loan debt

President Trump needs to get out in front of this issue in a big way. It is a definite election-winner:
Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., will propose on Monday eliminating all $1.6 trillion of student debt held in the United States, a significant escalation of the policy fight in the 2020 Democratic presidential primary two days before the candidates' first debate in Miami.

Sanders is proposing that the federal government pay to wipe clean the student debt held by 45 million Americans - including all private and graduate school debt - as part of a package that also would make public universities, community colleges and trade schools tuition-free.

Sanders is proposing to pay for these plans with a tax on Wall Street his campaign says will raise more than $2 trillion over 10 years, though some tax experts give lower revenue estimates.

Sanders will be joined Monday by Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., who will introduce legislation in the House to eliminate all student debt in the United States, as well as Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., co-chairwoman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, who has championed legislation to make public universities tuition-free.
Politics aside, eliminating student debt is the right thing to do. The power of the banks needs to be broken and this is the most effective way to begin doing that. Student loan debt is intrinsically predatory and cannot be justified, especially in light of the massive endowments of the elite universities.

The fact is that most people should not go to college. But if corporations are going to demand worthless pieces of paper for a job, then those worthless pieces of paper should be provided to everyone who wants one for free.

Remember, periodic debt forgiveness is straight out of the Bible and is even referenced in the Lord's Prayer. Debtors must be forgiven, concerns about fairness notwithstanding.

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414 Comments:

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Blogger Jab Burrwalky June 24, 2019 8:02 AM  

Trump could do it and make the Canadians pay for it.

Blogger Salt June 24, 2019 8:08 AM  

Sanders is proposing that the federal government pay to wipe clean the student debt

Taxpayers always end up holding the bag.

Blogger Nation-Deprived June 24, 2019 8:10 AM  

As a long time sufferer of these loans, I would love to see Trump do this. Matt Walsh would lose his self-righteous mind.

Blogger Azimus June 24, 2019 8:10 AM  

Might as well, its not like the public debt is ever going to be repaid so we should transfer as much garbage into it as we can and flush it down the toilet...

... they need to figure out something for people who paid off their loan though. As long as we're opening the candy store, let everyone in!

Blogger Glaivester June 24, 2019 8:10 AM  

The problem is, the taxpayers will wind up footing the bill for this.
If we are to eliminate student loan debt, we need to confiscate college endowments to do it.
Otherwise, we are just giving more fat subsidies to colleges.

Blogger Matrick June 24, 2019 8:12 AM  

What would this mean for people who have just finished paying their debt? This doesn't include me, I should say, as I've never had any debt; but wouldn't this open a can of worms?

Blogger InformationMerchant June 24, 2019 8:12 AM  

The irony of forgiving the debt of everyone that failed the IQ test and agreed to pay $100k for a degree in black lesbian dance is irksome. It'd be nice if he remembered to give students the option of getting rid of it by going bankrupt and perhaps pushing the colleges to provide valuable degrees. The government can't keep resetting college debt like this or move to pay for free college for all.

It should help with Trump 2020, even if the college programmed SJWs still won't vote for Hitler over a Dem offering the same policy, parents and students that might have held their nose and voted left purely due to this won't be lost.

I'd still prefer razing the colleges to the ground and letting the internet replace them, but that's probably a touch optimistic.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother June 24, 2019 8:14 AM  

This is not to help college students. It's to help the entire country escape the costs of a lost generation, and to break the banks. Very Jacksonian.

Blogger basementhomebrewer June 24, 2019 8:14 AM  

Rather than the Feds paying the banks/colleges I would like to see student loan debt become eligible to be discharged in Bankruptcy. Let the banks/colleges bear the burden and let the debtor feel at least a slight sting for taking on the obligation.

Blogger InformationMerchant June 24, 2019 8:14 AM  

@4 and @6 Yes. That's why letting people give up their diploma and go bankrupt like they'd do with a car is the clean way to deal with it. But that's not going to be the way this goes down.

Blogger sykes.1 June 24, 2019 8:16 AM  

A large majority of student loans, nearly all new loans, are made by the US government. Private banks are largely out of the business.

The government loans could simply be forgiven. This, by the way, is nothing new. Many years ago, in the 60s, the federal government issued student loans that included forgiveness if the student did something after graduation, like teaching, that the government wanted to encourage.

Blogger Arthur Isaac June 24, 2019 8:16 AM  

Taxpayers? What are those? The printing presses are already smoking. Our government spending hasn't depended on taxpayers in at least a generation. Guns backing up the imperial petrodollar. That's all we got.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 24, 2019 8:19 AM  

Per usual the "conservative" side will not even negotiate favorable terms for themselves only how favorable the terms will be for the other side, conservatives the world's worst negotiators.

Blogger buzzardist June 24, 2019 8:27 AM  

An effort to do this would be very popular among those on the receiving end. Are you suggesting a taxpayer-funded bailout for all student loans? Or is it just canceling the debts and leaving the banks holding the bag?

Either way, it would be a slap in the face to everyone who did repay their student loans, which would likely make it a push politically. Pander to a few votes among a segment of the population that leans Democrat and will probably lean Democrat no matter what Trump does. Alienate a few votes among people who might have voted for Trump.

If it were a taxpayer-funded bailout, then the resentment would be even higher. A lot of people would say, "Hey, I not only spent a decade paying off my own loans, but now I have to pay off the loans of Millennials and Generation Z with my taxes?" Of course, in reality, any bailout would be debt-financed, so it would ultimately be little more than transferring student debt to federal debt. That's not going to end well.

If it's simply cancelling the debt so that banks are left to absorb losses? F*&% the banks, but ouch. Taxpayers would still end up on the hook for a lot via Sallie Mae. More than a few banks would probably collapse, forcing further bailouts via the FDIC.

Yeah, student loans are predatory. Yeah, the higher education system is corrupt and needs to be dismantled and rebuilt. Negating a bunch of loan contracts that people engaged in voluntarily, however, would still leave the universities with all the money they've pocketed. Instead of forgiving a lot of loans, why not end federal loan subsidies and guarantees moving forward? That would crash the universities, which seems much more just than putting taxpayers on the hook for over a trillion dollars.

Blogger Johnny Ducati June 24, 2019 8:32 AM  

Dump that debt on the universities. They will be forced to jettison their Womyn's Studies departments or sink.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 8:33 AM  

... they need to figure out something for people who paid off their loan though.

No, they don't.

What would this mean for people who have just finished paying their debt?

Nothing at all.

it would be a slap in the face to everyone who did repay their student loans

So what? What about those of us who never took out any student loans? That's all beside the point.

A lot of people would say, "Hey, I not only spent a decade paying off my own loans, but now I have to pay off the loans of Millennials and Generation Z with my taxes?"

Who cares what the Boomers think. They got off easier than anyone alive.

The point is that the system is going to collapse anyhow. Not managing the collapse is not going to make it less catastrophic.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2019 8:34 AM  

$2.6TT?? Is that all? Harvard alone could cover this and have $500BB left over.
@buzzardist, no, people who've managed to pay off the debt generally won't react badly. Just a few narcissists and Lubertarians. But I repeat myself.

Blogger Unknown June 24, 2019 8:36 AM  

Vox is getting soft. They borrowed it, let them pay it back. the kids I'm talking to have begun to realize that college isn't necessarily worth it. Jubilee will only acerbate the problem

Blogger Nobody of Consequence June 24, 2019 8:39 AM  

Students took out those loans of their own, albeit stupid, volition. They OWE the money regardless. Honor is honor and students need to pay back the money. The governments are the primary responsible parties in the loans. Both the feds and the states have done everything they could to get students into debt. But it is NOT the place of the government to screw the taxpayers to pay for something someone else received. I do believe at this point Obama made all student loans governmental.

But again - As I professed for decades, DO NOT BORROW FOR EDUCATION. Get a freaking job and pay your way as you go.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 24, 2019 8:40 AM  

What would this mean for people who have just finished paying their debt?

They should read Matthew 20:1-16.

Blogger thechortling June 24, 2019 8:43 AM  

We're way past boomers being the primary debt holders here-- although I would guess they're the ones largely holding the bag because they've made their kids vicariously "follow their passion" into University and study junk "Studies" degrees. We need a generation how runs counter to the party at college, expect and 80K/year first job.

It may be the right thing to do but this generation will not appreciate it. It will be just another mommy/daddy-give-me-stuff-that-I-don't-deserve. Far better that the kids go the Gary North/Ron Paul method of really going to college for college rather than for Panama City Beach Spring Break photo moments while too drunk or stoned to stay in control of their future.

To me, it will just reinforce the narcissistic, irresponsible behavior of this current bogus "Studies" generation.

Exceptions apply. Hopefully they shine if things got the suggested way here.

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 24, 2019 8:43 AM  

Reparations for thee, but not for me.

Loan forgiveness for thee, but not for me.

I'm beginning to detect a pattern . . . /s

Blogger Daniel June 24, 2019 8:45 AM  

Loan forgiveness always pisses off those who paid them off.

But not that much. If you want to benefit from debt forgiveness, you have to have debts. So if you are worried about missing gravy trains, just apply now for student loans, and bet on a favorable edict in the next year or two. Who knows? Maybe you too will learn to love worthless diplomas.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2019 8:46 AM  

The envy is palpable.

Blogger Whitecloak June 24, 2019 8:47 AM  

As a net debtor who made very stupid choices as an 18 year old, my family would welcome this change.

Student loan payments on the ever-ballooning principle break our financial back. Was I foolish to take out loans for a useless degree? Why yes, I was.

Should our TFR continue to crater as a large percentage of my generation got locked into the same shit deal? Seems foolish.

Want more right leaning youth? You need to convert those youths into mothers and fathers in an intact family unit.

Student debt, seems to me, postpones (sometimes indefinitely) that push to adulthood.

I would gladly burn my piece of toilet paper as a price of forgiveness, by the by.

Blogger Stilicho June 24, 2019 8:47 AM  

Combine debt forgiveness with provisions making the colleges attended by the debtors legally liable for half of the debt (retroactively and proactively). Two birds, one stone. Add in a provision making a percentage of such debt dischargeable in bankruptcy (again retroactively and proactively) and you have a trifecta which will help fix the current problem and alleviate it's recurrence. Making the lenders and colleges pay for this also shares the burden of the moral hazard which incentivized them to enroll and lend to anyone with a pulse.

Blogger Paulito June 24, 2019 8:47 AM  

This is NOT debt forgiveness. It's making all of us pay for the stupid decisions of some. Just like the housing bail-out, the people who made the loans get fully paid, and if it closely resembles that bailout, they won't even wipe the debt out and so those people (whoever it is that controls all of the student loan debt, whatever group of tiny-hatted people that may be) will get paid twice. Again.

Blogger Rocklea Marina June 24, 2019 8:49 AM  

Student loans take people out of the work force, but that's okay, Pedro can pick up the slack. Or Pushpindar, same difference.

Blogger M. Bibliophile June 24, 2019 8:50 AM  

Graduated in the last ten years, paid off my debt a year ago.

This is the right thing to do. I pray the GE gets out ahead of Sanders and just does something, take the wind out of his sails. It's a surefire win for whoever does it.

Blogger Johnny Ducati June 24, 2019 8:50 AM  

Use Cloward-Piven against the Academy. It is diseased and turning out unstable social misfits. It has to collapse before something based in reality can be built on the ruins.
If I were Benevolent Dictator, I would bomb the Ivy League schools and send the survivors to re-education camps. ;)

Blogger The Lab Manager June 24, 2019 8:52 AM  

We could tax all university administrator public and private for an additional 50%. They would still be in the top 5% in wealth and income. Especially ditzy or sexually repulsive women who have BS degrees and get jobs as 'directory of duh-versity enrollment' or 'director of duh-versity hiring'.

Blogger anorganicbear June 24, 2019 8:53 AM  

There's a way to do this that let's everybody win. Just make it so that for every Iranian thumb brought back from the Middle East, John Bolton will forgive $1000 worth of student debt.

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2019 8:53 AM  

> Politics aside, eliminating student debt is the right thing to do.

A few simple proposals:

1) In the loan agreement, the college is bound to offer you a degree that provides you with employment in the field. If you don't get offered a job in the field they trained you in, the loan is voided and you don't owe a cent. The college is on the hook for the entire amount.
2) The loans can be discharged in bankruptcy.

Those two changes would pretty much fix the problem.

> The irony of forgiving the debt of everyone that failed the IQ test and agreed to pay $100k for a degree in black lesbian dance is irksome.

You don't repay that debt. It was issued on a fraudulent basis, and the college knew it when they offered the degree. It's voided and the college eats it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 24, 2019 8:54 AM  

I'd be willing to back a debt forgiveness scheme if the old rules go back into place.

To qualify for a student in the 1980s you had to demonstrate either genuine poverty or prove that you had lived independently for four years.

Who am I kidding? The entire system is now built around giving expensive but worthless sheepskins to illiterates. No one is going to rock that boat.

Blogger Himself June 24, 2019 8:56 AM  

I'm in the bankruptcy camp. Have it worked out like any other debt.

It'll take some work to untangle what Obama did to college loans. But I'd start with closing sally mae. Gubmint should not be in the loan business. Note that there are two points interest that are skimmed off of college loans to fund Obamacare. Close it all down.

BTW I think the quote in that prayer is "...forgive us our sins as we forgive those that trespass against us.."

I believe it was the debt of sin, as opposed to finances.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 24, 2019 9:03 AM  

I've made a lot of mistakes in my life, but one I didn't make was staying in college once I ran out of money. I thank God my parents raised me to think you save up and pay for things as you get them, but it doesn't give me any right to hate on people who weren't raised that way and were easy marks for the lending/college machine.

Is it really that hard to hate the banksters and academia? I didn't think it was.

Blogger Silent Draco June 24, 2019 9:04 AM  

Paragraph 1 of the bill permits student debt to he discharged in ba bankruptcy court.

Paragraph 2 of the nullifies the court decision prohibiting the use of IQ tests in hiring.

No amendments.

This allows debt forgiveness and applies penance to the SJWs who brought it about.

Blogger binks webelf June 24, 2019 9:05 AM  

Government-backed student loans:

1. ...Escalated tuition fees, making it harder to resist a loan, and pricing college out of reach of many worthy kids. The higher fees make it very difficult to work your way through school.

2. ...Take no account of 'Unicorn Studies', which like so many other de-educational SJW-mutated arts degrees, are worse than worthless.

3. ...Let the colleges & banks exploit the younger generation, sometimes for decades, when they might otherwise be getting married, buying a home, a car, and settling down for kids. Especially if husband and wife BOTH have onerous loans.

4. ... Make no distinction between trade schools (which have a much higher employment rate for grads), versus the diploma mills in useless studies, compromised disciplines, and Marxist brainwashing.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:05 AM  

Vox is getting soft. They borrowed it, let them pay it back. the kids I'm talking to have begun to realize that college isn't necessarily worth it. Jubilee will only acerbate the problem.

You're a moron. The system is unsustainable and predatory. It has to be shut down as soon as possible. You should not blame the victims for the situation in which they found themselves.

These are people who were not even judged capable of drinking by society, and yet they were able to sign themselves into debt slavery for no material benefit to themselves.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:07 AM  

I believe it was the debt of sin, as opposed to finances.

You're wrong. It is both.

Blogger Harry_the_Horrible June 24, 2019 9:08 AM  

Allow students to discharge excessive student loan debt through bankruptcy.
Then allow the institutions holding the debt to sue the hell out of colleges and universities to recover their losses.

Blogger Andrew June 24, 2019 9:10 AM  

Then forgive all the debt. not just student loans

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 9:10 AM  

Should be a two part program, the 2d part being elimination of the Federal loan guarantees, but the Dems won't like that one....

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 24, 2019 9:11 AM  

Forgive just the undergraduate debt or include post graduate too? Rewarding lousy decision making. What could go wrong? Which debt will be forgiven next?

Attempting a solution that codified a 7th year cycle of debt forgiveness, essentially putting a limit on how much a given individual can borrow to what can be repaid in a 6 year period.

What's next, passing a law mandating harvesting single pass in circles for gleaners?

Of course, there is also the reality that most of that student debt will not be repaid any how.

I just do not see debt forgiveness working. Getting rid of death and propert taxes will have better effect.

Blogger Brett baker June 24, 2019 9:13 AM  

Yes.

Blogger Jack Ward June 24, 2019 9:14 AM  

I understand, under old rules, a discharge in bankruptcy would show on your credit report for 10 years.
I say, let the student debt be discharged in bankruptcy, take the 10 year credit hit. Or, discharge the debt in return for meaningful public service for some years. Perhaps part time with your real career continuing. Also, you would have to prove citizenship; no illegals can get this. Maybe its discharge in return for at least 6 years of honorable military service; something like when the military educates you, say as a doctor, but you are obligated to a certain number of years of military service.
Getting ex-students out from under all that debt would be a good thing, but, they need to do something to earn it.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:16 AM  

Then forgive all the debt. not just student loans

That's not even remotely possible. It would make the Great Depression look like the Japanese Boom of the 1980s in comparison. If you know nothing about economics, it would be best if you don't even express an opinion on this subject. You're literally too ignorant for your opinion to be relevant.

All they need to do is make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy like every other debt. But the difference between that and debt forgiveness is negligible because nearly everyone will do it since most student loan debtors aren't worth anything.

Blogger Seeingsights June 24, 2019 9:18 AM  

Student loan was discharable in bankruptcy, six years after they first became due. However, due to a law change in the late 1990s (under Clinton) they were made non dischargeable.
The former law seemed reasonable to me. The law in effect said, we will not allow a moral hazard allowing debt to be so easily discharged. However, if you made a good faith effort to pay after years, then you can discharge what remains.
When student loans were discharable in bankruptcy, I did hear any complaints. It was a policy which was simple and worked out well.
Also, that student loan debt is non discharable in bankruptcy contributes to the increasing rate of college costs. Colleges know that students are stuck paying student loans, so colleges charge tuition as much as they can

Blogger Andrew June 24, 2019 9:18 AM  

I know it's not remotely possible. Just like student loan debt forgiveness isn't going to happen.

Blogger ADS June 24, 2019 9:19 AM  

Any boomer faggot who loves to chirp on about how us kids should have known better than taking out student loans needs to get punched in the face. We were told our whole lives, by every parent, teacher, and authority figure, that we had to study hard in school so we could go to college so we could have a good career and good life. Smirking at us that it's our fault we got fooled is a depth to which only a boomer or a jew could sink. Student loans are made under coercion and false pretenses and repudiation of the debt is the correct answer. I don't care if it crashes banks, I don't care if it torpedoes the college system, (((finance))) is a cancer and needs to be excised as soon as possible.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:20 AM  

Just like student loan debt forgiveness isn't going to happen.

That very well may happen in some form. Because student loan debt repayment definitely isn't going to happen.

Blogger Seeingsights June 24, 2019 9:20 AM  

By the way, debt jubilee is in the Old Testament, I forget the chapter and verse.
Just do keyword search on a Bible text and you will find it.

Blogger Brett baker June 24, 2019 9:20 AM  

PRIVATE colleges? Naw, you thought you were getting a better deal than if you went to State School Podunk. Pay up!

Blogger The Gaelic Lands June 24, 2019 9:21 AM  

Slippery slope. It would have to be allowed via traditional bankruptcy.

If it does go through, I suggest there be a mandatory re-training of those forgiven in at least civics, if not all the classical teachings that made America what it is/was. A re-training period, perhaps a year, to wash out the Marxist thoughts impelled into their young brains.

Along with this, a mandatory expelling of all self-professed Marxists from the universities along with caps on the salaries paid to university staff.

Blogger Daniel June 24, 2019 9:22 AM  

MY WIFE'S KIDS ARE MULTI-ETHNIC BUT I JUST PAID OFF MY STUDENT LOANS SO WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEeeeeee???

Come on people. You can drive the car into a ditch or off a cliff, but an oil change isn't really an option.

Blogger Nation-Deprived June 24, 2019 9:22 AM  

Hopefully Vox makes this topic his next darkstream. I think it’s very pertinent and many people here are up in arms about the debt. Reasonable, but I think Vox has a point in that perpetuating this crippling system is much worse than forgiving our debts.

Blogger Seeingsights June 24, 2019 9:22 AM  

Correction on my first post: I meant to say that I did NOT hear complaints when student loans were discharable in bankruptcy.

Blogger Andrew June 24, 2019 9:22 AM  

That very well may happen in some form. Because student loan debt repayment definitely isn't going to happen.

Just like most all debt repayment isn't going to happen.

Blogger Whitecloak June 24, 2019 9:26 AM  

I note that non-predatory lending has a little thing called 'underwriting' that goes into it. Trained professionals, in a proper lending scenario, take into account your character, capacity, capital, and collateral.

18 year olds who know nothing, have no income, no assets, and no history of payment, are not credit-worthy and would have trouble borrowing in most scenarios- scenarios that can be discharged in BK.

Sloans are loan sharkery, corrode our social fabric, halt family formation, and push those indebted leftward in hopes of relief.

Screw the Marxian indoctrination centers and their ties to financial chicanery. End the racket.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:26 AM  

Just like most all debt repayment isn't going to happen.

But that debt can be discharged and the collateral can be seized. Neither is the case with student loan debt. Hence the problem.

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 24, 2019 9:26 AM  

What would this mean for people who have just finished paying their debt?

They should read Matthew 20:1-16.


This.

Everyone clamoring for fairness in this case doesn't understand mercy in the Christian context. I believe in fact you are following the god of rationalism and logic, not the God of the Bible.

And it's not just about sin. It was about the economics as well. Go back and read the OT. Incidentally, I've read Israel never once observed the year of Jubilee. It was part of the reason for their eventual punishment and exile; first Israel, then Judah.

Blogger tuberman June 24, 2019 9:28 AM  

Yes, these loans will be forgiven. Student Loans were always a scam.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 24, 2019 9:30 AM  

My daughter and her husband (newly weds) both worked, borrowed some and graduated with minimal debt ... yada yada yada.

But when I begin to get too self-righteous, I listen to Keith Green's Prodigal Son suite as a reminder ...

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=keith+green+prodigal+son

Blogger Flannel Avenger June 24, 2019 9:31 AM  

MOTW had a week on this topic last year.

https://www.menofthewest.net/untangling-the-gordian-knot-of-student-loan-debt/

Blogger Stilicho June 24, 2019 9:32 AM  

Using bankruptcy alone would help dry up future student loan lending but would let colleges off the hook for past malfeasance. Give lenders partial recourse against the colleges (retoactively as well) spreads the burden among the bad actors.

Blogger Uncle John's Band June 24, 2019 9:34 AM  

The #2 boomer solution after bootstraps is generally to "fix" the system. The notion that the system is the problem appears to be outside comprehension.

What happens to the colleges is secondary.

Blogger Lovekraft June 24, 2019 9:34 AM  

Unless Vox is being sarcastic, I would have to argue that CERTAIN types of debt should be forgiven.

But in the case of pathetic eternal students who get knowingly-useless degrees, let them wallow.

Blogger mh01701@gmail.com June 24, 2019 9:37 AM  

I zeroed out my retirement paying off my debt, couldn't even deduct the interest.

Blogger Matt Robison June 24, 2019 9:37 AM  

I'm all for forgiveness, as long as the it includes a solution that makes the colleges scared. They are culpable as well, and shouldn't get out of this consequence-free.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:39 AM  

But in the case of pathetic eternal students who get knowingly-useless degrees, let them wallow.

That's not a reasonable option. It would kill off the economy because they can't buy cars or homes, or start families.

None of you economic ignoramuses understand that this issue is not about the student-borrowers and it is not a morality play. It is about what is necessary to prevent complete economic collapse.

Blogger Blastmaster June 24, 2019 9:43 AM  

My son lived at home, worked and commuted in while earning his degree from a state school. He graduated with no debt and a 3.9 gpa in business. So much for the conservative approach I guess

Blogger Jack (LJCSOGHMOMAS) June 24, 2019 9:43 AM  

All you boomercons going off about "they borrowed it, they should pay it back" should keep in mind that the actual amount borrowed is dwarfed by the amount owed thanks to the satanic anti-miracle of (((compound interest.))) If someone borrows $50,000 and ends up owing over $100,000 or even $200,000, that is not a just transaction. It's usury plain and simple.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella June 24, 2019 9:43 AM  

Why not Henry VIII it? And claw back all the money in the university endowments? Pay back all student loans. Then repair the roads and bridges. Repair the regular high schools. Pay for walls and plane tickets for "you have to go backs." Repair the highway system. Pay for a law firm to roll back Griggs vs Duke Power.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 9:45 AM  

Why not Henry VIII it? And claw back all the money in the university endowments?

(nods) The first thing is to decide what must be done. The second thing is to decide who is going to pay for it.

Blogger Xoph June 24, 2019 9:48 AM  

Anyone who has allowed their child to sell themselves into collegiate debt should be drawn and quartered. However, too often history has shown parents willing to sell their children into slavery to clear the parent's debts. Such people are not capable of giving their children good advice. By my estimate they are around 70% of the population, perhaps more.
It seems to me the concept of the Jubilee year acknowledges that most people will put themselves into debt if given the chance. I find it interesting that our ancient ancestors KNEW that was a path to disaster and that sometimes you had to wipe the slate clean. Your choice is not between a good outcome, but a less bad outcome. As someone who has paid his debts it would be nice to get rewarded, but debt is accelerating and it can’t get paid. The system will wreck itself. Choosing the smaller weaker wreck of loan forgiveness prevents a worse outcome, and my feelings be damned. This is about our kids and not letting the banksters and deep state make debt slaves out of our children.

Blogger Dangeresque June 24, 2019 9:49 AM  

A good first step would just be to make it possible to discharge by bankruptcy with the consequent hit to the person's credit score. Get the worst cases out of the way without all of Bernie's free-everything crap.

Blogger Andrew June 24, 2019 9:51 AM  

well if the government decided to start enforcing only those financial contracts that had recourse strictly to specifically defined collateral of real assets unambiguously owned by a trusted party, (ie. only non-usurious contracts), then the financial system wouldn't stay afloat very long.

Blogger Pope Cleophus I June 24, 2019 9:53 AM  

What did the bank actually loan you? Any loan paperwork that you signed is a promise to pay. Did the bank hand you currency? No. They took your piece of paper and stamped it and deposited it in their account. They credited your account. They created MONEY FROM NOTHING! And they charge you interest for that! What kind of hit is the bank taking?

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 9:54 AM  

There is some history here that is relevant to why companies require degrees:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Since companies couldn't use their own tests to legally discriminate against those who could not do the job, they outsourced it to colleges.

Of course, over time colleges have also been forced to stop using valid tests.

Personally, I think the SC was wrong as it was in so many other things.

I wonder whether it is a case of unintended consequences or was it intended all along?

On balance, I do think it is a good idea to forgive all that student debt.

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 24, 2019 10:01 AM  

let them wallow.

Try to think like a member of a society. How many people in your town, or your church, or your family, can be left to "wallow" before it matters to you?

Yesterday I was talking to a guy who's been trying to hire a few IT people for 10 months. He's offering a good wage for fairly low-level work. He wants Americans, because the company went the India route in the past and got burned. He's willing to pay for training, as long as they show some aptitude and interest. His latest hire had zero experience, so he asked him, "Do you own a computer" "Yes." "You're hired."

The entire education system is broken from kindergarten up. It was broken on purpose to provide a glut of degreed workers to push those wages down, and to produce a shortage of workers for non-degreed jobs so they could be filled with cheap foreigners. We're all victims of this destruction, except the bankers, colleges, and corporations that profit from it. If you live and work in this country, you're paying for it, culturally and economically, even if you never took a loan yourself.

Blogger dienw June 24, 2019 10:02 AM  

Vox is correct: debt forgiveness is biblical law: debts were to be forgiven every seven years.

Debt = slaves and the amassing of property into oligarchical hands; the state whether run by Pharaoh, by king, by Caesar, or by republic cannot allow its lands or its people to be in the hands of the few; nor can it allow such to be controlled foreigners.

Blogger Andrew June 24, 2019 10:03 AM  

And they charge you interest for that! What kind of hit is the bank taking?

The liabilities created by transaction ("money for nothing") are real since the government grants banks the license to issue the sovereign money. They are offset by the fake assets of the student loan. So they lose the fake asset but the liabilities remain.

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 10:03 AM  

I'd like to see the law changed so student loan defaults are shared 50/50 with universities through endowment forfeiture.

That would end dead weight curricula within 18 months.

Blogger The Gaelic Lands June 24, 2019 10:04 AM  

As far as economic collapse, it's already baked in and is being referred to as The Reset. Brexit seems to be the kickoff timing. Depopulation and currency resets are the themes. A debt jubilee would be a more human element of it but I doubt those in charge of it care much for that.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 24, 2019 10:07 AM  

Salt wrote:Sanders is proposing that the federal government pay to wipe clean the student debt

Taxpayers always end up holding the bag.


They already do. The DOE has full authority to garnish the wages without a court order to those who default. The loans can't be bankrupted. And if you don't pay, they'll send SWAT after you.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 June 24, 2019 10:07 AM  

Eliminating student loan debt for students who majored in engineering, computer science, accounting, medicine, etc., is good idea and would be politically beneficial.

Fully eliminating student loan debt for students who majored in garbage would not be righteous or politically popular.

As well eliminating student loan debt for quality education, Trump should propose eliminating federal funding for junk education and condemn the leftist establishment for profiteering from luring kids into this trap.

Trump should, also, promote strong financial assistance for young people to enter trade schools as a lucrative alternative to the "higher" junk education trap.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 24, 2019 10:08 AM  

As someone who has paid off all of my debts, including the student loans of both myself and my wife, I applaud this proposal.

Forgive the student loans of everyone. Let's require a year of jubilee in this nation. President Trump just tweeted out that before we had debt, we paid for everything with cash.

Blogger Clint June 24, 2019 10:08 AM  

Men Of The West ran several articles last year about this very issue, advocating the same.

https://www.menofthewest.net/?s=student+loan

Blogger dienw June 24, 2019 10:09 AM  

Taxpayers always end up holding the bag.

Why should taxpayers be in hoc for fractional, non-existent money; let those who created the fractional lending system suffer the consequences of their own perfidy.

Blogger Alexamenos June 24, 2019 10:09 AM  

Boomer Conservatives naturally oppose the idea, on the principle that an 18 year old who borrows $100k has moral agency...

...and also apparently the principle that a lender who loans $100k to an 18 year old to purchase a piece of paper is guaranteed an adequate return on his investment. Free markets I suppose.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 24, 2019 10:09 AM  

At a bare minimum it should be means tested. A better idea is to allow people to discharge the debt in bankruptcy.

We need to make students understand that all the SJW crap in the colleges, the diversity departments and administrators and all those racial programs all cost a lot of money and that they are paying for it.

A big part of the reason for some of these departments is college athletics. All of these athletes need to be enrolled in college and passing. Luckily for them, they can get a degree in racial grievances and other easy therapeutic courses.

Blogger Ivar June 24, 2019 10:10 AM  

I presume, then, that the chumps who actually paid their student loans will receive a refund.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:12 AM  

We need to make students understand that all the SJW crap in the colleges, the diversity departments and administrators and all those racial programs all cost a lot of money and that they are paying for it.

Well, better yet. Shut. Them. Down.

They are mostly degree mills now anyway!

Blogger CM June 24, 2019 10:13 AM  

Amen.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:13 AM  

@92: There should be a publicly available list of those whose student debt was forgiven.

That way employers can determine who is worth hiring.

Blogger Avraham June 24, 2019 10:13 AM  

Maybe for STEM. But for anything with the word "studies" in it,-- no.

Blogger Lovekraft June 24, 2019 10:15 AM  

If we argue that the host nations of immigrants bear the burden of re-accomodating them when they return, wouldn't it follow then that those closest to the debt-bearers, the ones who have a direct responsibility (and blame, often) should bear the burden of paying off this debt?

Unless the argument we hold is that we will not burden the host nations and allow the repatriation to occur without the added price that their care incurred. If this is the case, debt forgiveness would be a step in breaking away from the entire predatory financing industry.

Blogger Christian Schulzke June 24, 2019 10:15 AM  

Being on the hook to pay off the student loan debt of fat, blue haired lesbians with horn rimmed glasses, and a gender studies degree, is enough to turn my stomach.

Blogger Chase June 24, 2019 10:17 AM  

This is one of the reasons Tucker Carlson is so important. He is a former libertarian who came to understand how impractical it is. All the people talking about Millenials who "expect 80k" jobs right out of college or whatever are totally missing the point. What people should rightly be able to expect is the ability to find a path that allows them to create a family as young adults. If a society cannot provide that - as ours manifestly cannot - then that society is failed. Any moral arguments about fairness or whatever need to take a back seat to the primary concern: are you able to transmit your culture in the most basic fashion - the creation of a new generation. If you've failed at that, you need to rethink everything.

Blogger MadFrank June 24, 2019 10:17 AM  

The main issue is you propose to forgive student loan without anything to prevent it to happen again. Do we really think the madness will stop after forgiveness?

You can get the perfect example of this with Reagan amnesty 1986. The intend was to forgive illegal immigrant to reduce their number in the future and it only increase there number just like loan forgiveness will create more student loan in the future if left unchecked.

Blogger Gastguma June 24, 2019 10:18 AM  

Mere debt forgiveness doesn't solve the problem, which is that colleges today are a scam by which the Left uses bank loans backed by the taxpayer to indoctrinate new generations of voters, and which is exactly the system that Leftists who support debt forgiveness encourage. If debt forgiveness is offered by Trump, it should be combined with other policies which attack the problem, and which would also help bring conservatives on board.

Tax or fine the colleges and universities to mitigate the costs, under the reasoning that they are liable for the students inability to pay their debts, and perhaps make them liable for unpaid student loans in the future. If a fine, base it on how many graduates remain indebted past a certain time. If they protest, accuse them of being greedy exploiters of children who extort their money without providing anything of value. Use the skyrocketing rates of tuition and decreasing worth of degrees as evidence of this. This will force colleges be selective of students who are likely to be financially successful and reorient degree programs toward marketable skills instead of indoctrination.

Remove all federal backing and guarantees of loans in the future, reasoning that banks, and not taxpayers, should be responsible for the loans they give out. Appeal to the unfairness of the 2008 bank bailouts to bolster the case. This will force banks to be more selective about the loans they make, as there will be no government safety net.

Finally, propose an alternative means of escaping student loan debt by working it off (instead of bankruptcy). The debtors could do productive work (emphasis on productive) for the government, like rebuilding infrastructure or dare I say rounding up illegals for deportation. This would allow them to escape the consequences of bankruptcy and still be responsible for their choices, while at the same time giving taxpayers something for their money.

Debt forgiveness is extremely appealing to millenials. Bernie, et al., want to combine debt forgiveness with things that make the root problem worse. Trump could negate this by combining it with something that fixes the root problem.

If were going Biblical, then let's go Biblical. Giving people a chance to work off debt and going after money extortionists are both also Biblical.

Blogger The Gaelic Lands June 24, 2019 10:18 AM  

"Christian Schulzke wrote:Being on the hook to pay off the student loan debt of fat, blue haired lesbians with horn rimmed glasses, and a gender studies degree, is enough to turn my stomach."

Thus there needs to be a re-training aspect to it. Which traditional bankruptcy currently mandates. In this case, it will need to be a re-education of SJW/Marxist poison spread by the universities.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 24, 2019 10:19 AM  

I am in the education business. I have been preaching to the young for the last two decades that college, in general, is a rip off now. Even the hard sciences cost way to damn much.

The college loan situation was clear when the Feds made it to where you could not declare bankruptcy and get rid of the debt. That showed the whole scheme was a FRAUD.

My scheme would let any of the kids with loan debt declare bankruptcy and get a fresh start. F*ck the banks. AND that would mean that many new students might choose to not go to the rip-off colleges since they would want to avoid bankruptcy.

I went to school on math-science scholarship in the 70s. If I had to pay for a semester it would have been $150 tuition, fees, books and even parking. Last I checked, that would not cover the "student activities" fee at UT today.

By all means find a way to get these kids off the hook, but make sure this does not become yet one more trillion dollar entitlement program. Also make sure the rip-off Universities are punished by cutting off the federal dollars.

Blogger JG June 24, 2019 10:21 AM  

I think it is a fine idea to reduce student debt, but the best way to destroy this corrupt and predatory system is through bankruptcy court. If a college sells a useless degree to the student with the enticement of a student loan, then hold the fraudulent college responsible for the debt, and the banksters who backed the colleges, too.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:26 AM  

Thus there needs to be a re-training aspect to it.

What are you going to retrain them to do?

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 10:29 AM  

If bankruptcy were allowed for these loans, the rate of bankruptcy for graduates would become an objective measure of ranking that could not be dodged.

Blogger IrishFarmer June 24, 2019 10:29 AM  

"We're going ti eliminate student loan debt in one week, billions of dollars, its gonna be great...We will eliminate the debt in two weeks, itll be huge...We're gonna give the Democrats two years to come to the table on student loan debt..."

Blogger CM June 24, 2019 10:30 AM  

And it's not just about sin. It was about the economics as well. Go back and read the OT. Incidentally, I've read Israel never once observed the year of Jubilee. It was part of the reason for their eventual punishment and exile; first Israel, then Judah.

Well that puts the prophets' condemnation of usury into context.

I'm all for forgiveness, as long as the it includes a solution that makes the colleges scared. They are culpable as well, and shouldn't get out of this consequence-free.

I'd love to see some education reform that includes penalties for some % of graduates being awarded discharge in bankruptcy results in loss of accreditation at the bare minimum.

Blogger Frank Lee June 24, 2019 10:30 AM  

The law preventing former students from being able to declare bankruptcy and wipe out student debts is the only problem. We already have debt forgiveness in the US legal system, it was just foolishly overridden to help out Universities that charged ridiculous tuition with the help of insane student loan programs.

What you're proposing is the equivalent of an SJW amnesty program, which will only encourage more insanity at the universities and more training of SJW's.

If universities encourage students who won't pay off their debt to attend, then they should be punished when those student's declare bankruptcy a few years later.

If you're concerned about Christian values in regard to debtors, then there should be changes in overall bankruptcy rules to make them easier (even for home and car loans) and also improvements for people to recover their credit after bankruptcy if they change their ways.

In terms of pure politics, if Trump supports this, he loses the next election He will outrage the right. Justifiably so. And he won't gain a single vote from grifter college types.

Blogger Dr Caveman June 24, 2019 10:33 AM  

Canadianns, not so sure.

But he can definitely make the Chinese pay for it. Triple their tuition fees and they'll still come

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 10:33 AM  

Allow bankruptcy, 50% of restitution comes from the endowment of the failed alma mater.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 10:36 AM  

It was the banks who pressured Clinton into making these loans not dischargeable and Obama into taking over the program and guaranteeing the loans...right now Treasury would be on the hook for most of them...So canceling the debt would be a very bad idea unless the entire evil program were eliminated at the same time, otherwise it would just turn into a direct Treasury subsidy.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 24, 2019 10:36 AM  

For any libertarian or Boomer conservative who thinks this is a bad idea, here's some simple rhetoric to refute them:

-Student loans are owned by the Federal government, they are not a private market loan.
-Modern student loans are largely the result of the Obamacare bill.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:36 AM  

I see names like IrishFarmer and the like who post Anti-Trump stuff and think of Farmer Tom ... I guess he was just a wanna-be celeb who proclaimed "Trump will never be President".

Maybe they are just Nancy Pelosi sock puppets.

Blogger Glaivester June 24, 2019 10:37 AM  

The first thing is to decide what must be done. The second thing is to decide who is going to pay for it.

I don't think you can do any student loan forgiveness without putting provisions in there to make certain that the colleges eat the debt.

Most student loans are either given by the government or backed by the government, are they not? You can't simply cancel those debts without in effect transferring money from the taxpayer to the college. Making the banks eat the debt sounds good, but it won't be them, it will be the government (i.e. the taxpayer).

Student loan forgiveness without some sort of penalty for the colleges will simply encourage the colleges to go even more hog wild.

And any proposal to make colleges tuition-free has to have provisions to prevent them from just soaking the taxpayer by raising costs.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 10:39 AM  

@111 Yes, the colleges and trade schools that are propped up by this scheme (most of them), need to be on the hook for part of the loan, but don't expect any of our congresscritters to vote for any of that....

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:44 AM  

@115: Australia went through a stage where college was free (at least 10 years, maybe more, from about 1974.) It is no longer free. People pay their college debt when they start working if they cannot pay it up front.

Blogger Dr Caveman June 24, 2019 10:44 AM  

The current system is unsustainable. Not too mention the crippling effect of saddling people with a debt they can't even go bankrupt on.

Debt abolishment should be funded by the institutions that benefitted from it - the universities charging $50+k for useless degrees while sitting on huge endowments.

Also, foreign students should be charged much higher tuition fees. It is madness that the US is teaching it's adversaries so foreign students should pay not just for tuition, but also for the economic damage they'll do.

Blogger English Tom June 24, 2019 10:45 AM  

@The Gaelic Lands

The economic collapse/reset IS the jubilee!

Blogger Robert What? June 24, 2019 10:48 AM  

The banks and universities should pay a very large chunk of that. Otherwise it's just another burden on the taxpayers. And don't believe that crap about a tax on Wall Street. The government would never make the Crony Class really pay.

Blogger David Ray Milton June 24, 2019 10:49 AM  

Just finished paying off $100k in debt after 12 years of working my ass off and living on a low budget. And while I would be envious, debt forgiveness is the way to go if there is to be any economy going forward. I was blessed with a decent job, most grads with heavy debt were not. They simply cannot afford anything.

My only stipulation would be to make the higher institutions pay the debt. I know this would be unrealistic, but shutdown the universities that are most dependent on federal subsidies and student loan payments to stay open (bottom 90% of them). Then liquidate their assets and use whatever proceeds to put towards the collective debt. This way, there is less useless debt going forward.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 24, 2019 10:53 AM  

Gastguma wrote:Use the skyrocketing rates of tuition and decreasing worth of degrees as evidence of this. This will force colleges be selective of students who are likely to be financially successful and reorient degree programs toward marketable skills instead of indoctrination.

This would require the repudiation of their highest values. They simply cannot do this. The universities are incapable of this type of reform.

Frankly, the problem is more at the high school level. Far too many of our high schools are diploma mills. If these dumb kids were weeded out at the high school level, going to college would be completely off the table. Keeping these kids in school and passing them dumbs down the school. How are you supposed to learn anything with a bunch of sub 100 IQ kids screwing around in class?

The entire elite believes that if you can just bribe a kid to show up to a building every day until they are 18 and then hand them a piece of paper, they will be productive citizens and tax payers. These same attitudes are widespread in the colleges.

The system is incapable of self directed reform. A restructuring by outside forces is the only thing with even a small hope of success. But the people who could theoretically do it are products of this broken system and believe the same nonsense, just to a lesser degree.

Blogger kurt9 June 24, 2019 10:53 AM  

The fact is that most people should not go to college. But if corporations are going to demand worthless pieces of paper for a job, then those worthless pieces of paper should be provided to everyone who wants one for free.

I actually agree with this.

Blogger buzzardist June 24, 2019 10:54 AM  

Who cares what the Boomers think. They got off easier than anyone alive.

This isn't about Boomers. Boomers went through college before the federal government started heavily subsidizing tuition. They could work part-time, work summers, and come out of school debt-free at a good state university. Most Boomers didn't need loans for college, and certainly not of any significant size.

The student loan industry grew with the post-Boomer generations. Universities jacked up tuition faster than inflation by roughly the amount of Federal Pell Grants plus subsidized Stafford Loans. Whatever tuition had been became that much, plus inflation, plus the guaranteed money that the poorest students get. In the 1980s and especially in the 1990s, it became much harder to finance college without loans. Gen X was the first generation to get smacked hard with student loans, and Millennials got fleeced even worse. Most Gen Xers have paid off student loans by now. Most Millennials haven't.

You're right--avoiding economic collapse is bigger than the political optics. But the political fallout of an unpopular decision still carries consequences. How many Millennial votes would Trump win by backing this policy? How many Gen X votes would he alienate? For politicians who want to win, that calculation still matters.

It is about what is necessary to prevent complete economic collapse.

It's $1.6 trillion, or about 7.5% of the GDP, or about 10% of Americans’ debts. Almost all of it is financed by the federal government, so forgiveness would mean about $100 billion per year for the next decade and a half that would not be repaid to the federal government. The federal debt goes up by an extra $100 billion per year beyond current projections. Would it be enough to tip the federal debt into a death spiral? Possibly, but we're likely headed there already.

The important question is what the economic boost would be of freeing people from debts that are inhibiting their ability to take risks and pursue new ideas. If that boost to the economy is greater than the $100 billion a year deficit increase, then it's a good deal.

What to do with existing loans is one question; how to treat university tuition going forward is another. Universities directly created the problem by using federal tuition subsidies not to lower costs to students, but to hire new administrators and add "programming." Loan forgiveness would not change much for them unless also was paired with an elimination of the current tuition subsidy system. As long as universities are free to go on charging over-inflated prices because federal money subsidizes students, they will. Loan forgiveness is the ultimate subsidy.

What would destroy universities' economic models? End federal tuition subsidies. This would cause at least half of U.S. universities to go into bankruptcy. Most remaining universities would have to slash tuition by 40-50% or more to remain in the market for any significant number of students. The 15-1 ratio of administrators to faculty wouldn't be viable any longer, and thousands of high-paid administrators would be laid off. (Good riddance.) Lots of smart middle-class and working-class kids would miss out on college, which might cause a reassessment by employers of the value of a degree.

A second alternative is simply to nationalize higher education. Make the federal government a single-payer. Don't allow universities to charge above what the federal government pays. Of course, costs could spiral (see Medicaid) if the government keeps paying whatever universities demand. But if the government set strict tuition limits, then university foundations would similarly crumble. Anyone of a certain academic ability would still be able to go to college, and employers would still have their easy method for weeding out resumes.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:55 AM  

The entire elite believes that if you can just bribe a kid to show up to a building every day until they are 18 and then hand them a piece of paper, they will be productive citizens and tax payers.

Do you have evidence that they really believe that or are they just engaged in a Cloward-Piven process?

Blogger Alexamenos June 24, 2019 10:55 AM  

Code?

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 24, 2019 10:56 AM  

@87 Forgive the student loans of everyone. Let's require a year of jubilee in this nation.

yes. we could call it the great purge (movie ref.)

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 10:57 AM  

Also, foreign students should be charged much higher tuition fees. It is madness that the US is teaching it's adversaries so foreign students should pay not just for tuition, but also for the economic damage they'll do.

And they should pay up front. Currently, I believe, they can simply leave the country to avoid the debt.

Blogger Giraffe June 24, 2019 10:57 AM  

This would be a great issue if Elizabeth Warren gets the nomination. She got $400K to teach one class. She'd be exhibit A as to why college is a scam.

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 24, 2019 10:59 AM  

@99

well said!

Blogger riffer73 June 24, 2019 11:00 AM  

Like said above, make it easier for the loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.

Blogger OneWingedShark June 24, 2019 11:00 AM  

VD wrote:it would be a slap in the face to everyone who did repay their student loans
So what? What about those of us who never took out any student loans? That's all beside the point.

Exactly this; I was one of those who never took a loan, instead I paid for school with my enlistment.
One of the biggest things that makes student loans so horrible is that they aren't discharged via bankruptcy — if we wanted to make them a bit more just, we would (a) force the universities that push them to co-sign, and (b) make them come with a guarantee of employment… which would drastically cut down the "gender studies"-type of degrees.

ADS wrote:Any boomer faggot who loves to chirp on about how us kids should have known better than taking out student loans needs to get punched in the face. We were told our whole lives, by every parent, teacher, and authority figure, that we had to study hard in school so we could go to college so we could have a good career and good life. Smirking at us that it's our fault we got fooled is a depth to which only a boomer or a jew could sink. Student loans are made under coercion and false pretenses and repudiation of the debt is the correct answer. I don't care if it crashes banks, I don't care if it torpedoes the college system, (((finance))) is a cancer and needs to be excised as soon as possible.
Thank you.
It's beyond ridiculous to parrot "they should have known/done better!" when, for the most part, both EVERYBODY in authority positions was telling them "get a degree" AND (for a large portion) none of these authorities would lift a finger to help them do so.

Mark Stoval wrote:The college loan situation was clear when the Feds made it to where you could not declare bankruptcy and get rid of the debt. That showed the whole scheme was a FRAUD.
Honestly, at this point the whole student loan thing is roughly akin to mob "protection" combined with a 'loan' — the Universities have high costs and really push the loans; then when you get a loan they take their cut and the bank is awfully enthusiastic about getting their money back.

Blogger Steve Canyon June 24, 2019 11:03 AM  

I'd be even more behind this if they left the taxpayers off the hook and levied a tax on university endowments to pay for it. The little mutual appreciation thing they have where the federal government assumes the risk for their endowment investment scheming needs to go.

Of course, if Trump would come out and say "We'll forgive all student loan debt except * studies degrees graduates" even better. Further removing incentives to engage in that sort of faux intellectualism by encouraging people to pursue degrees in areas that are providing value (and removing an argument for H1Bs in that process) will do far greater good for the country than Sanders' position alone.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 24, 2019 11:03 AM  

Glaivester wrote:Most student loans are either given by the government or backed by the government, are they not? You can't simply cancel those debts without in effect transferring money from the taxpayer to the college. Making the banks eat the debt sounds good, but it won't be them, it will be the government (i.e. the taxpayer).

The colleges already got paid. This is like not paying your car loan to get back at the dealership.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 11:05 AM  

O/T Liz Warren wants reparations for gay/LGBT people who had to pay normal income taxes before gay marriage was approved.ll

Blogger Ironwolf32 June 24, 2019 11:07 AM  

My dream would be to force the colleges and universities to co-sign each and every student loan that is granted. They want to charge exorbitant rates for worthless degrees, then they can't do it with chance that they will eat the cost.

Put them on the hook for if students default. The problem may solve itself.

Blogger Ironwolf32 June 24, 2019 11:08 AM  

Typo ".... then they can do it with a chance that will eat the cost."

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 24, 2019 11:09 AM  

VD wrote:(nods) The first thing is to decide what must be done. The second thing is to decide who is going to pay for it.

OK, now you're talking. This plan needs to take something out of the hide of the Academy, and not bail out any bankers. Just having the Fed govt swallow this with no other provisions will just allow the whole thing to roll onward.

Blogger Chris Ritchie June 24, 2019 11:10 AM  

Can someone send this post and comment thread to a Trump staffer? Lots to chew on here.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 24, 2019 11:13 AM  

75. Xoph
"Anyone who has allowed their child to sell themselves into collegiate debt should be drawn and quartered."

Debt forgiveness may be a starting point, maybe. How are colleges, particularly, state colleges allowed to do what they do relative to tuition costs? Fees for this and that, non-citizens' scholarships and tuition advantages, capital investments to build buildings and labs to attract world class researchers (tagging along their teaching assistants), sports arenas, student centers and exercise rooms that are incredible, inability to take a licensing exam without a diploma because missing a course or two in art appreciation or basket weaving ...

Forgive debt has to be hand-in-hand with other issues. Maybe it can be done first. I just think that it may work in the short term but not in the long term unless other issues are also addressed.

One of the main reasons my wife decided to become a college adviser in her school is a former student and the former student pathetic/stupid/sad decisions as to borrowing and college choice. Parents input? Parents not that much better.

College choice, education major, likely starting salary, debt load and realistic expectation given a student's ability and history. You can only lead a horse to the river's edge.

Luke 11 below does not deal with economics/finances but there is a principle I think applies. Forgive debt? OK, a warning to all who are corrected but with no attendant change is behavior -- repentance:

Luke 11
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

Blogger Longtime Lurker June 24, 2019 11:18 AM  

"Can someone send this post and comment thread to a Trump staffer? Lots to chew on here."

Stephen Miller's contact information is plastered all over DC.

Come to think of it, so is Tucker Carlon's.

H/T: Antifa.

Blogger JaimeInTexas June 24, 2019 11:20 AM  

How about student debt forgiveness for undergraduate debt relating to direct school costs (not the portion used to buy cars, rent apartments, etc) AND immediate termination of the central government's involvement in college debt at any level.

Blogger Gregory the Great June 24, 2019 11:21 AM  

It is unethical to give a loan to somebody who you know will not be able to pay it back. Nobody should be regarded as too big to fail when it comes to punishing those who are practicing this. Let them go belly up or be saved by their master Sauros if he cares to do that!

Blogger Azimus June 24, 2019 11:21 AM  

VD:
... they need to figure out something for people who paid off their loan though.

No, they don't.

Of course they don't "need" to. They don't need to forgive student loan debt for current students either. But if they only forgive current outstanding debt, economically this doesn't feel much different than slavery reparations. If this is a campaign strategy, and you're already talking fantasy money in the trillions of dollars, why not expand it to everyone? How is that any less absurd?

Blogger cecilhenry June 24, 2019 11:22 AM  

So for those who paid off their debts with prudence and patience??


They get the shaft again.

How do you address that??

Where is the moral hazard?

Blogger Nation-Deprived June 24, 2019 11:24 AM  

He already said this is beyond moral hazard, it simply can’t continue in this fashion. Would you rather let society collapse instead?

Blogger Pyrex June 24, 2019 11:25 AM  

The cost is much more manageable than many think, because of the way much of the money has already been allocated fiscally. And the benefit of wiping out private debt is fundamentally different than the same $ value of stimulus to banks (see Hudson, Keen). And, there’s a pretty strong case that even under some fairly mild assumptions, the macroeconomic effect is significant.

http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf

Blogger TheSickManOfEurope June 24, 2019 11:26 AM  

In the West...Women as a Group don't pay income tax.
They receive MORE in handouts from the taxpayers than they pay in income tax...ie; net benefit receivers.
Since MOST of the University students are Women..."Eliminating student loan debt" means a Tax on Men to pay for Women's education.
There is No WAY in hell I will be paying for a useless Gender-Studies "degree" for some random woman.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 24, 2019 11:30 AM  

Ah hell, who are we kidding here? Nothing productive or sane will be done about this. This society is broken beyond repair.

Blogger Crew June 24, 2019 11:30 AM  

Women as a Group don't pay income tax.

I've got news for you. Neither do blacks or Hispanics.

https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/05/11/fiscal-impact-of-whites-blacks-and-hispanics/

Blogger Shimshon June 24, 2019 11:32 AM  

Make the debt dischargeable. But also make the universities guarantors instead of the Feds. Coming soon. Harvard University, Inc., owned by Bain Capital.

There is this:

Student Loan Debt Crisis is Bankrupting Millennials

But oh my would canceling student debt even make a difference?

Married to debt: Couples are taking out loans to pay for their weddings

Blogger kurt9 June 24, 2019 11:32 AM  

One more thing. If the corporations insist on worthless documents for employment, not only should they be free to the applicants, the corporations themselves should pay for them. Its the rampant credentialism that has driven the education con game over the past 30 years. Let the people who believe in credentialism pay for it.

So yeah, I have no problem with the student loan debt being written off.

Blogger Jack Amok June 24, 2019 11:33 AM  

I'd prefer a three-way split: students remain on the hook for one-third of their debt (but it's dischargable through normal bankruptcy), the schools they went to are responsible for one-third of it, and the banks take it in the shorts for the final third.

But if that's too unwieldy, then just cancelling it is okay. Though maybe the students have to surrender their degree as part of it. That would certainly be an interesting decision to track. Call it the Lemon Degree Law - you can return your worthless degree for a full refund.

Blogger Pyrex June 24, 2019 11:34 AM  

The current state of affairs incentivized administrative expansion by universities to capture profits from government loans, costs ultimately born by students. In addition to loan forgiveness, have to also change the game. Changing all employer requirements is a difficult coordination problem; drastic reduction in availability of student loans would change dynamics but would be felt most by today’s high school students. Need to find a way to get rid of bloated costs from needless education...Maybe free public tuition will push large endowment universities to offer reduced tuition to compete? Though, at this point, I’m not sure the business model for large private elite universities has much to do with students at all...would be interesting to understand better the tax treatment of endowments, and what kind of influence being a donor buys you.

Blogger Phelps June 24, 2019 11:36 AM  

One of the earliest things God commanded to the Jews was to have a debt jubilee every seven years. He knew what He had to do to reign in their nature.

Watches a bunch of Devon Stack's Black Pilled videos yesterday, and one line stood out as profound -- European people have always had a intrinsic hatred of usury.

Blogger John Regan June 24, 2019 11:36 AM  

Well, fwiw I proposed an across the board jubilee by way of a constitutional amendment some time ago, not that anyone liked it:

jubilee amendment

Lots of follow on explanations.

Much more recently, I scaled back my ambitions and tried the much simpler "homestead amendment", to largely the same effect:

homestead amendment

Blogger Balam June 24, 2019 11:41 AM  

cecilhenry wrote:So for those who paid off their debts with prudence and patience??

They get the shaft again.

How do you address that??

Where is the moral hazard?


Don't be a mental AND moral midget. The usury trap, and make no mistake it's an intentional trap to enslave people, is an ACTUAL hazard not just a bad idea like smoking or something.

Imagine if you spent a year learning how to fight mountain lions only for Trump to come along and drive them all off. Are you going to cry out, "But what about people like me who actually spent the time to learn how to fight and avoid mountain lions! Won't I get reimbursed for that??" This is an actual predatory danger to society and, if student-loan debt bankruptcy discharge happened, you should be happy for all of society that they don't have to deal with it anymore.

Again, if someone built a jail to house a murderous felon are you going to cry out, "But what about me! I learned to avoid serial killers really well, others should be left to die don't build that jail why won't you cripple my competition and fellow man!"

And all my imagined examples are just single threats, not the institutions with legions of lawyers determined to impoverish you. This cutthroat laissez-faire, particularly in the face of forcing millions of individuals to fight alone against mega conglomerates, is why libertarianism doesn't work.

Blogger Spud June 24, 2019 11:44 AM  

Posts like this is why I come to this blog. My initial reaction was "I just paid off my student loans, sacrificed a lot to do it because I honored an agreement, now everyone gets their enormous debts forgiven and I will likely have to subsidize that as well? WTF!".

Reading the replies changed my mind. I have always thought it was abhorrent that the Department of Education never teaches the youth about finances and investments but will allow them to sign their lives away with $100,000 loans. And with the unwarranted increases in the cost of education (likely directly due to the loan system) it makes the situation even worse.

Blogger Stilicho June 24, 2019 11:45 AM  

@jack amok- your plan is eminently workable (see my prior comments). The colleges would have the strongest legal defense to such legislation (ex post facto claim and takings claim), but they can go whine to the Chrysler bondholders or the MF Global account holders who Corzine robbed if they want sympathy.

Alternatively, changing bankruptcy law to make student loans dischargeable (perhaps after a 5 year post-loan or post-attendance window) would work as well and the banksters would take the whole hit.

Blogger Pyrex June 24, 2019 11:46 AM  

Also, if you really are concerned about people who just paid off the debt, Steve Keens idea of a direct cash stimulus to all (that first must be used to pay down debt, if you have it) addresses the concern head-on. Much more expensive though. Still, might be a political issue that has to be sorted out to be implemented. Why not give some kind of tax credit for loan payments in the last ten years, but amortized out over the next 10 years? Lots of ways to handle that....

Blogger WT874 June 24, 2019 11:49 AM  

Education is a debt slavery system as it currently works. Any debt forgiveness needs to also coincide with a major restructuring of how universities work. Actually, rather than coming from taxes it would be better by confiscating the assets of the universities. They are the ones creating the worthless product at high cost, they should be first to be made to pay it back.

Blogger Pyrex June 24, 2019 11:52 AM  

The only sustainable way out of a debt trap I see is through a cash infusion + growth. Debt forgiveness of students is an investment in productive capital by society...not just more cash, but a real chance to make a difference in stimulating growth. The status quo is de facto austerity.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 24, 2019 11:55 AM  

@82

"The liabilities created by transaction ("money for nothing") are real since the government grants banks the license to issue the sovereign money. They are offset by the fake assets of the student loan. So they lose the fake asset but the liabilities remain."

That's their problem, as they were the ones who asked to be able to do this (take on moral hazards) in the first place.

Blogger Brian Niemeier June 24, 2019 11:56 AM  

>Abortion on demand
>The 1986 amnesty
>"They borrowed it, let them repay it!"

Testaments to a generation that despises its own progeny.

Blogger rumpole5 June 24, 2019 11:58 AM  

First we need to prune back the cost of tuition. Every institution of higher learning ought to be audited to figure out where the money is going. When you've got a flood turn off the water before you drain and clean up the mess.

I was lucky to be blessed with a child brighter than I, so he got a full scholarship to Baylor University. On his first registration day he came back and asked me for $1,000.00! That was the student activities fee! My college activities fee in 1969 was like $25! WTF happened! The expenses are crazy.

If we can get the expenses controlled I certainly would contribute to a tax to assist young graduates with their debt burden. However, I don't want to subsidize a bunch of overpaid, leftist academics.

Blogger Giraffe June 24, 2019 11:58 AM  

Make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy for one. The banks will stop loaning money to stupid people and for degrees that don't pay.

Blogger rumpole5 June 24, 2019 12:00 PM  

AMEN, Brother WT.

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 12:03 PM  

What is being forgotten here, just as it was under Obama, are the incredibly corrupt "private loans" pushed on students during the bush years.

These were never re-acquired by the federal government and have zero relief. Pretty much everyone who was in school between 2001 and 2008 have these loans and no program targeting federal loans will touch them.

Blogger justaguy June 24, 2019 12:03 PM  

Hey, if one group-- those with student loan debt-- want to nakedly grab $ from the rest through the vote-- then well VDs revolution will occur earlier than her thought. oNLY 30% of people in America have a bachelor's degree, and a large # of those paid for it.

The student loan problem is a good example of "the stupid shall be punished" here by a legal type of indentured servitude.

Fixing the loans in the future is simple-- get the government out of it-- no guarantees except for veterans, treat it state by state and allow bankruptcy--problem solved. It would solve the academia issue as those going to college would be cut by more than 1/2 as it should be.

Blogger Tiny Timm June 24, 2019 12:04 PM  

1. I read some here stating to "stick it to the banks". Last I knew was that the banks do not own the debt. I thought under Obama's administration that the whole student loan practice and processes were pulled from the banks and put into the hands of the federal government. When I went to school in the 80's and early 90's the program was owned by the banks and the guarantee the interest rate was held at 8% through the governments with the state government taking on the majority of the guarantee. You then had another private group who bought up the loans and managed the payments. In my case it was Great Lakes Educational Loan Services. Thus the banks sell the loans - therefore "going after them banks" is stupid because they do not own the debt, it is "We the People" who own the debt.

I have no problem of individuals and private organizations forgiving debt as stated in the OT as part of the years of jubilee. But there is still a requirement to pay the during the other years. But since the debt is owned by the Government then we as a people need to agree in mass that this debt will be forgiven. But we do need to look at the future - will we forgive all home mortgages? How about car loans or vacation loans? When will the borrowing and forgiving of debt end?

2. We currently do not have any form of free market in the post secondary educational system in this country. If we broke up the monopoly of the accreditation boards and allowed the banks to adjust the interest rate according to the degree you are getting: STEM - 4%, Business Management and school teaching - 6%; Liberal arts - 8-10%. When we break up the accreditation boards we can then open up alternative schools more and more and let them offer alternative methods of teaching future post secondary graduates

A. More apprenticeships - in health care a person has to have some practical experiance, in engineering we learn more in the first couple of years than we did in all of school, for teaching the biggest thng is the last year where you student taught.

B. Long term training methods: instead of 4 years to get the degree a person can do it for 8 years while working in the profession - have a combination of schooling and experience which then results in a degree, etc.

C. With all of the different professions that need a license, the whole idea of a single point degree is stupid - get a degree then get the license even though you went to the state school to get your degree. Either go to the state school and get a degree or go to any school or none and take the license exam. The license method requires that a professional continues to take training in their field in order to renew the license. So if you can pass the test to get your license without taking the "formal" training in a "state sponsored" school then you should automatically be granted equivalent of the degree.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 12:09 PM  

How about a "one-time" 50% tax on college endowments to pay for erasing all this stupidity? I'm sure Harvard and Yale would be happy to pay...its for the underprivileged.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 24, 2019 12:10 PM  

"A big part of the reason for some of these departments is college athletics. All of these athletes need to be enrolled in college and passing. Luckily for them, they can get a degree in racial grievances and other easy therapeutic courses."

Wrong. They major in Physical Education. Whatever Studies programs are for creating the appearance of legitimacy for insane leftist ideology AND skimming money out of the system to inject directly into the bank accounts of leftist activists FOR BEING ACTIVISTS.

Blogger Felix Bellator June 24, 2019 12:12 PM  

Fine, I hate this frickin' idea that only benefits idiots, but something needs to be done. So make it dischargeable through bankruptcy AND have a Federal register of the identity, school, major, time people, and amount discharged publicly available. There needs to be enough bite in this process fix that educates the deadbeats and informs the populous not to let this stupidity happen again.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 24, 2019 12:13 PM  

@92

"I presume, then, that the chumps who actually paid their student loans will receive a refund."

No. They are the lucky ones.

It's just like no unemployment system can survive if ANY worker ever gets back as much as he pays in. IF you complain that you were never unemployed, and thus are owed back all the money you paid into unemployment, the government's answer is "consider yourself lucky that you were never unemployed." -- Never mind that all of the money YOU paid in was basically absconded with by the state and federal bureaucracy.

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 12:14 PM  

Tiny Timm wrote:I thought under Obama's administration that the whole student loan practice and processes were pulled from the banks and put into the hands of the federal government.

That only applied to new loans.

Meanwhile, some 6 years' worth of loans in the 00' era were "rape by private banks who get all the anti-bankruptcy perks of the fedgov"

Those are still out there, probably worth 400-500 billion.

Blogger James Dixon June 24, 2019 12:15 PM  

> On his first registration day he came back and asked me for $1,000.00! That was the student activities fee! My college activities fee in 1969 was like $25! WTF happened! The expenses are crazy.

The Baylor athletic department has a whole bunch of people they have to pay off: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_sexual_assault_scandal

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 12:16 PM  

I presume, then, that the chumps who actually paid their student loans will receive a refund.

No. Don't be stupid and obnoxious.

Blogger justaguy June 24, 2019 12:16 PM  

I am really tired of these idiot comments: " Everyone told me that I had to do this, I had to take loans to go to college."

If by 11th grade for you or your kids, you didn't realize that the teachers and administrators in high school weren't very smart and did not have your best interests at heart-- then you are too stupid to go to college.

"Everybody else is doing it" stopped being an excuse by age 12, so it is remarkable to hear it from adults.

Lots of people were also telling you to go the cheap school route, not the play for 4 years route too... you just didn't listen.

For the maybe 13% of the US that has student debt-- leave the 80+% of us alone. Most of the big $ comes from people who went past a bachelors degree. It is those pesky professional degrees that are really expensive. Why should the 68% of people without a degree pay for those idiots to get a masters or JD?

Blogger Noah B. June 24, 2019 12:16 PM  

Make all future and currently outstanding student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy and get the government out of it. Surrendering the degree as part of the bankruptcy discharging student loan debt is a good idea too.

This would allow those who really need a clean slate to get one.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 12:17 PM  

Fine, I hate this frickin' idea that only benefits idiots, but something needs to be done.

For the Nth time, you cannot blame literal children who were doing what they were told to do by all of their authority figures and being preyed upon by the biggest predators in society.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia June 24, 2019 12:17 PM  

Let's see if I got this right.

Bernie thinks should take 9% of the United States Gross Domestic Product of $18 trillion -- effectively confiscating 10% of YOUR money, every US citizen on this board and elsewhere -- and pay off the lenders who financed genders studies degrees. I should pay off the debt of some transgender freak who wrote ze's senior thesis on the oppressive nature of pantyhose.

Is that right??

Or, every student should just default on that debt, and whatever costs of that get passed off...oh, well!!

The Biblical injunction to forgive debts is all well and good, when the debts are low and the tribes are nomadic, or the debts are personal and often one to one.

But last I looked, it's the 21st century, and we have scale issues here.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 24, 2019 12:19 PM  

Student loans should not exist to begin with. There is no collateral to guarantee them, other than your future labor, and there is no way to discharge them should said labor never come to pass. It is, in essence, slavery.

By the power of the 13th amendment, it should be made illegal, the lenders charged with hate crimes, and the young freed of that particular burden in life.

Blogger Dirk Manly June 24, 2019 12:20 PM  

"What are you going to retrain them to do?"

Well, the *-Studies majors can be retrained in agriculture -- to replace all of those deported illegals. Once that's full, they can be retrained in landscaping.

Blogger VD June 24, 2019 12:21 PM  

Where is the moral hazard?

It is becoming abundantly clear that the USA primarily consists of idiots and narcissists who really deserve to have their society collapse in flames all around them.

"Why should the fire department put out the fire at my neighbor's house? Shouldn't I be compensated for not being dumb enough to set MY house on fire?"

Blogger wahr01 June 24, 2019 12:24 PM  

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:Student loans should not exist to begin with. There is no collateral to guarantee them, other than your future labor, and there is no way to discharge them should said labor never come to pass. It is, in essence, slavery.

By the power of the 13th amendment, it should be made illegal, the lenders charged with hate crimes, and the young freed of that particular burden in life.


They won't even strike down alimony and child support laws which are much more direct violations.

Heck, they won't even enforce article 1's biggest protection against government over-reach: the restriction of law-making to the bandwidth of a small room of people (not hundreds of vast regulatory agencies).

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 24, 2019 12:25 PM  

@172 There were entire basketball teams who were majoring in African American Studies and who weren't showing up to class. There was a big scandal about this some time ago.

Bottom line is that college athletics have turned into another gibs program.

Blogger Scott Free June 24, 2019 12:27 PM  

Crew wrote:What are you going to retrain them to do?

Manufacturing. There's a big shortage of factory workers in the US right now. It'll be even bigger if Trump can get manufacturing to come back to the US from China.

Blogger justaguy June 24, 2019 12:28 PM  

Notice how the statistics for what percentage of student loan debt is for post-graduate education isn't tabulated. Hasn't been since O took it over. I found some 2012 figures but not current ones. In 2012, 40% or so of all student debt was for post-graduate degrees. A pretty big #.

Ever wonder how much of this crisis is from people getting masters of gender diversity or JD from a third rate toilet law school?

It isn't hard to go to college for a BA and take on very little debt (less than $20K). For many, they end up with much much less, but they do not have the 4 year hedonistic orgy that too many of these crying debt deniers had.

Yes some of you were great people who worked 25 hours a day at three job and only ended up with $2 million in debt from home town university and are still virgins... so what. College is party time and why should the majority pay for 4 years of party?

The incredible issue is actually why does the US guarantee/force availability of loans for 4 years of party to people who can't pay it back? Academia really worked themselves a good deal. Those who run the system gets lots of $, starving temp profs teach all of the low level classes, and the kids to to play for 4 years and not learn anything...

Get rid of the no bankruptcy and get government out-- problem solves itself.

Blogger Michael June 24, 2019 12:30 PM  

Are the Boomers that are crying about the taxpayer going to pay back the Treasury every dollar in excess of their lifetime FICA contributions that Medicare pays to treat their lifestyle-induced illnesses, boomer-trike crashes, erectile dysfunction, etc.? Will the average boomer rack up more Medicare bills in excess of his FICA contributions than the average student loan debt? (Yes). A gastric bypass here, a stent there, a hip replacement, all that expensive insulin for type II diabetes, two months in a rehabilitation facility, boner pills, etc. That stuff can add up.

Blogger Matt June 24, 2019 12:33 PM  

I'm fine with making student loans wiped clean in bankruptcy, currently they cannot be.

Problem is that most of the student loans is from the federal government and will now just be put on the tabs of all the responsible people.

Blogger Noah B. June 24, 2019 12:34 PM  

You can moan all you want about having to suffer the consequences of others' bad decisions, but the thing you have to realize is that the damage is already done and we will pay one way or another. People have wasted years of their lives pursing worthless endeavors and leftist academics have profited from it. Repairing the damage in the most straightforward way possible is the best way out for all of us.

Consider that the primary beneficiaries of forgiving student loan debt are likely to be young women who won't have to keep working at Starbucks to pay the interest on their loans. They'll have more freedom to leave the workforce and have children.

Blogger tdcommenter June 24, 2019 12:34 PM  

Loans that cannot be discharged are like the debtor prisons of old. The US made it a point to disallow those at the founding.

Gov't control over student debt looks like another bid at the Left's Cloward-Pliven. Create an untenable situation to topple the overall system. If people can't live, they will support revolution. At the very least, those trapped in debt will not defend the system that ruined their lives. Continuing on the current course plays into the Left's hands. Also, there are definite abuses happening with collection fees.

To prevent moral hazard, the forgiveness does not necessarily need to be immediate or even complete. Someone mentioned that the old rules required 6 years before the debt could be discharged. Have people pay at least those 6 years. Go after their credit score if they don't. 4 college + 6 years of repayment = 10 years of burden.

The idea of non-dischargeable debts was to prevent strategic bankruptcies by highly paid professional degree holders, such as doctors & lawyers. They can make the bankruptcy rules such that advanced degrees debt cannot be discharged completely, but can be reorganized, so that they pay out a small percent of their income until retirement. For example, 2 to 5%. That would suck enough, so that people won't want to do that.

There are some tactical advantages that could be had:
- tax not only university endowments, but large institutions like the Ford Foundation, etc. Make only a portion of their endowment or money non-taxable.
- suck the money out of the Dept of Ed & other gov't programs for this cause. Make the states chip in to skinny down their parasites.
- make the reforms about economic freedoms & remove licensing barriers. Public school teachers (other evil lefties), cosmetology, etc.
- Build in a legal basis to nullify or weaken the Griggs v. Duke power decree that sent many people down the rabbit hole of chasing degrees.

Rhetorically, it is up to the opponents of the left to make the case this mess was created by the intervention of the gov't.

There are compelling Constitution & anti-Lefty reasons to do this & opportunities to be had.

Blogger Duh-ave June 24, 2019 12:35 PM  

Bring back admission tests, end demographic quotas and restrict courses to knowledge useful to the economy. Only then can gov paid education work. Graduate hard working smart kids and flunk out quickly the lazy and stupid. Transfer those that qualify to apprenticeship programs and teach those that don't to mow lawns and collect trash. The system will only work if the unworthy are pushed into the workforce as early as soon as practical. We don't need wetbacks to do our dirty work.

@135 The tax code penalizes married people unless a spouse doesn't work. Let them re-file for those years they could have been married and make them pay the difference.

Blogger Tracy Coyle June 24, 2019 12:36 PM  

Putting all the pieces together:
1. Almost ALL student loan debt is now held by the federal government - Obama 'federalized' the debt years ago.
2. The schools and banks got their money already; paid and spent, gone.
3. Cancelling the debt will move the debt from 'asset' to the government; it will impact the future by not collecting the interest or repayment to the tune of 100-150b a year, hardly an amount to worry about in a 5t annual budget.
4. Changing the bankruptcy law to allow student loan debt to be discharged (as EVERY other type of debt is) will make sure the rich kids pay what they can, while letting the truly stupid get rid of the debt.
5. This MUST include ending federal loans for education. Doing so will have a direct impact on liberal PRIVATE college/university enrollment. It will impact state colleges/universities too, but in a less dramatic fashion and it should help reduce the escalating costs of degrees.
6. As pointed out, it is Scriptural (as an agnostic, I don't care about this, but it is useful AND one of the reasons bankruptcy law is PART OF OUR FOUNDING CONSTITUTION).

Lastly, it is a winning move politically. I said back in 2016 the candidate that offered this would win. I don't think it will propel Sanders to 2020 win - he is too damaged a candidate - but for Trump, this would be moving the window for millions of former students.

Blogger P Mik June 24, 2019 12:39 PM  

The GI Bill is one of the main recruiting tools of the U.S. military and one of the unique benefits of military service in comparison to a civilian career. This benefit would be entirely negated by this proposed student loan amnesty, which rewards every student similarly, yet without their service. It is therefore a unique snub to those who have devoted the most service to the country.

A counter proposition would render this amnesty with similar terms to the GI Bill: any student loan amnesty ought to be tied to a proportionate period of voluntary military or civil service in exchange for the benefit.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 24, 2019 12:40 PM  

Great blog by a man teaching math inside the system. If you have anyone in your family who may someday go off to college. This should be a blog you read often.


Confessions of a College Professor

Rants and raves about the mess of higher education in the United States.



Here is a recent one of his that is Very On Topic:

Forgiving Student Loans Is Useless Without Punishing The Thieving Schools

http://professorconfess.blogspot.com/2019/06/forgiving-student-loans-is-useless.html

Blogger NO GOOGLES June 24, 2019 12:41 PM  

@50
Oof, this. Also, for every person who would have their student debt from their "black lesbian interpretative dance" degree forgiven, there'd would be more people who basically signed their whole lives over because they were 17 or 18 and every authority figure they ever had told them to do it.

I was responsible and chose a major that was actually booming and had great employment opportunities - computer science and math. Of course, my 2nd year in college was when the big tech companies managed to pay off enough congressmen to get as many H1B visas as they wanted. In about 6 months the industry went from recruiting people during their junior year in college to guys who had graduated with honors a year ago not being able to find any work. The only jobs left were for people with at least 5-10 years experience in the industry AND management experience (someone has to run herd on all of the indentured servants from India/China).

My story is not uncommon at all. Several of my college friends went through the same thing. Three of them committed suicide a few years out of college. And yet, Boomers who could pay for their tuition by working part-time during the summer are still telling me "you fucked up, you trusted us". Not even the Jews swindle their own grandchildren and then blame them for falling for it.

Boomers truly are a plague upon this nation.

Blogger Tars Tarkas June 24, 2019 12:44 PM  

Any outright debt forgiveness must be accompanied by proper reform or it will just happen all over again. Think about the borrowing spree these Millennials will go on when their debt is forgiven. It's not like they are going to get married and buy a house with that debt. It will be credit cards and eating out in nice restaurants for a couple of years. Perhaps a nice new Model 3.

Debt forgiveness is just putting a band-aid on a festering wound. The dysfunctional academy will still do what it does and the banks will entice the newly debt free kids with more debt.

As far as fairness goes, gov programs always end up screwing some people for the benefit of other people. The people who retired in the 40s, 50s and 60s made out like bandits because they didn't pay into the system, but got lots of checks. Meanwhile, it is very likely Gen-X will be means tested for SS and Millennials will not receive much of anything through SS. The fairness of it needs to take a back seat to fixing the problem.

Unfortunately, the problem cannot be fixed, because the problem is really just a symptom. Debt forgiveness without reform just perpetuates the system. The tax payers shouldn't be the ones who eat the losses, though that is what is going to happen.

Someone mentioned free college for vets. The GI bill is how this entire mess got started in the first place. The colleges get to put their fat on the rest of us. Without the gov guarantee, only the wealthy could afford to go to college and support this behemoth. The colleges would be forced to slash spending and fire all of the useless dead weight. This will have its own negative effects. Every college town in America would collapse.

Blogger Tino June 24, 2019 12:46 PM  

The solution for those that have paid back their loans is simple - pro-rated credit on taxes to offset the costs of the bailout in the amount of paid off loans. This reverses the moral hazard into proper moral reward and has positive economic benefits by leaving a little extra money in the hands of those who can manage their life.

Blogger justaguy June 24, 2019 12:46 PM  

Campaigning on cancelling student loan debt would be a disaster for whoever tries it. 44 million have loans, 320 million people total==14% rounded up. About 1/2 of all debt is for post-graduate degrees, maybe higher-- so even smaller numbers.

All the examples of masters of gender studies with $150K debt to be cancelled contrasted to hard working blue collar whom NAFTA hurt-- sounds like a winner to me!

Get rid of no bankruptcy going forward and have government only front first $10K loan . Problem solved for future.

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