Monday, June 24, 2019

Yoram Hazony is a Fake Nationalist

Hazony  proves to be just another basic bitch neoclown, and his book, The Virtue of Nationalism, is, despite its various merits, little more than an attempt at establishing a gatekeeping post for the civic nationalists.
This personal invitation arrived in my email inbox recently:

Naturally, I was delighted. I had been very impressed with the Israeli scholar Yoram Hazony’s book The Virtue Of Nationalism and had even had an affable exchange with him via Twitter Direct Message about his publisher’s curious failure to release the book in audio form:

So Lydia and I duly paid our $285 fee (each) to register. But we got this response:

It’s a form letter. Jared Taylor of American Renaissance, who tried in his frugal way to get press credentials, got exactly the same thing.

Jared very reasonably wrote back to ask if would he be denied press credentials if he were “a socialist or Open-Borders advocate” a.k.a. a typical member of the Main Stream Media.

Needless to say, Hazony and Brog did not have the courtesy to reply.
I'm not even a little bit surprised. You may recall that despite his protestations in his book, Hazony appeared to be more civic nationalist than genuine nationalist, and that has proved to be the case. In spades.

National Conservative = Neoclown Cuckservative.

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Blogger Mr.MantraMan June 24, 2019 1:39 PM  

"Hello fellow nationalists"

Blogger Jeff aka Orville June 24, 2019 1:57 PM  

((CivNats)) in the woodpile. Every single time.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 2:06 PM  

Yoram Hazony (I don't even like saying his name) could be a true nationalist, in his own country. Which is not this country. I see he's the president of something called the Herzl Institute. Herzl of course being the father of modern Zionism.

This name first popped up in front of me as endorsed by one of the smartest people evar, or something like that, from Jonah Goldberg. I just assumed he was another National Review Nobody. Somehow I don't think Goldy turned on him for being an evil, racist nationalist.

Now that I think of it, why was Goldy assigned the anti-nationalist book? Wouldn't this "conservative nationalist" folderol sound better coming from someone with a less foreign name?

Blogger APL June 24, 2019 2:07 PM  

Poor old Edmund Burke.

Blogger Mister Excitement June 24, 2019 2:09 PM  

The CivNats and Conservatives are showing how rotten and evil they are.

Here's True Conservative Erik Erickson defending pedophilia today:

"Confessing my unpopular opinion: The hypersexualization of pagans will end badly for them and many others, but

if a parent wants to dress their kid up as a drag queen, I don't think government has a role to play."

Blogger Ferdinand June 24, 2019 2:09 PM  

Civic Nationalism is their last line of defense. And their last wall to gatekeep.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 2:14 PM  

By the way, this Edmund Burke Foundation we've encountered before. I have wondered why Burke is a representative figure for so many, but I suppose it makes some sense. Besides being a moderate Whig, which is kinda conservatism's thing.

Burke was a strong supporter of the Church of England and had Anglo-Norman blood. But he was also Irish and his mother and other members of his family were Catholic. Possibly the implicit divided loyalties appeals to certain (((folk))).

Blogger Steb June 24, 2019 2:17 PM  

It's noticeable in his book that when people attack Israel, they're attacking it's sovereignty and nationalists should be appalled. But when it's Iraq and Libya getting invaded, national sovereignty means no-one is allowed to criticise the invaders for doing it.

Blogger Robert What? June 24, 2019 2:19 PM  

They are indeed nationalists, but only where Israel is concerned.

Blogger Dan in Georgia June 24, 2019 2:30 PM  

I quit listening to talk radio because of this evil zio-con. He’s just sticking up for the tribe, ya know? Otherwise Judeochrist won’t rapture us at a time of our choosing! Brought to you by Koch Bros, Inc.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 2:33 PM  

Yoram Hazony sounds just like a good old American patriot to me--didn't he lead a charge at the battle of Saratoga?

Blogger Argus Bacchus June 24, 2019 2:34 PM  

This post should surprise exactly nobody.

Vox expressed skepticism about ((Hazony))) right from the jump.

"...and while he so far has steered almost entirely clear of the heavy involvement of members of his nation in what he calls "the international liberal empire..."

From steering clear to steering lies.

Behold our (((fellow nationalists)))

Blogger Balkan Yankee June 24, 2019 2:41 PM  

The Brush Off: "This determination is based on publications and professional associations that are incompatible with national conservatism as we understand it."

Translation: If you ain’t cuckservative, you ain’t invited. Capiche?

Hazony does not get to tell us what our national identity is or is not supposed to be anymore than we get to tell Israelis what their national identity is or isn't.

Blogger John Williams June 24, 2019 2:48 PM  


Blogger peacefulposter June 24, 2019 2:52 PM  

I wonder if this is the first time that Jared Taylor has been called (((frugal))).

Blogger Jehu June 24, 2019 2:53 PM  

A little thought experiment regarding civic nationalism. If someone was really serious about it, and had a significantly sized political block, what would they do?
Well, clearly, they would vigorously punish any group which behaved 'clannishly'. How vigorously? At least enough that said group stops doing it. Because if they didn't, then 'defecting' (that is, behaving clannishly) would become the dominant strategy, just as it has in the real world. Now, a question---do you see ANYONE in the civnat circles advocating this? They won't even go to the mat on ending affirmative action, which is actually even popular.

Blogger Valiant June 24, 2019 2:53 PM  


Blogger David Ray Milton June 24, 2019 2:56 PM  

His book demonstrated his dishonesty in many ways. From his desperate attempt to separate nationalism from ethnicity, from the way he threw the South and the Boers under the bus, from the way he lied about the number of holocaust fatalities, and most importantly, from how the diaspora Jews could still be victims (of course) in his mind even though they violate every principle of nationalism by still living outside their home country.

Blogger kurt9 June 24, 2019 2:57 PM  

Guys, look at who appears at the top left as one of the presenters at the conference:

That alone should tell you the nature of this conference.

Any true conference on nationalism would not include John Bolton as one of their top presenters.

Blogger Stilicho June 24, 2019 2:59 PM  

So, the Burke Foundation is confirmed as controlled opposition and the (((chosen))) successor to The Weekly Standard and National Review. As if the Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute weren't carrying enough water for the Globalists already. I mean Peter Brimelow is ok (a nationalist in favor of borders and critical of multiculturalism),but not exactly on the hard right.

Blogger Refuse to buy overpriced June 24, 2019 3:04 PM  

The Virtue Of Nationalism For Me But Not For Thee

Blogger CM June 24, 2019 3:09 PM  

VoN is perhaps the best defense of nationalism that exists currently (written when nationalism needs defense and apologetics).

It is not without its flaws, including a blind eye to the USA's imperialism that begins far earlier than the 1960s.

I heard his talk to a group of Young Conservatives as well as an interview and he is very timid and easily pushed away from certain positions in person.

He may be able to write a treatise defending nationalism while using his Zionism to prop his arguments, but he is half-hearted in his vocal defense of it.

I don't know if that means he is simply a weak and cowardly man or if he really thinks the US is "different". His inability to recognize 1850s imperialism in the US suggests he might lean to the latter (nation of immigrants, not one people, out of many - one).

Regardless, either case makes him useless beyond his book.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 24, 2019 3:10 PM  

Color me shocked. I've got a good heuristic to avoid getting sucked in by his (((ilk))).

It is kind of amazing that he could write a whole book and remain ambiguous on the definition of the topic itself. On second thought, it's not so amazing (((after all))).

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 3:20 PM  

4.>Poor old Edmund Burke.

Burke was an Enlightenment thinker who attacked King and Church, and persecuted Warren Hastings for doing what was necessary in India...Then the French Revolution came along, with bloodbaths aplenty and all of society turned upside down...Burke, seeing what his ideas had inspired, then beat a hasty retreat to more or less supporting England's status quo, and even attacking the effects of Jewish financiers on English society....but his credibility was shot

Blogger Garuna June 24, 2019 3:22 PM  

His shilling for Ben Shapiro's book was a major red flag. In fact, friendliness with Shapiro is a great litmus test to weed the fake nationalists from the real ones.

Blogger Maximoushka June 24, 2019 3:34 PM  

" ..Burke persecuted Warren Hastings for doing what was necessary in India."
Tsk,Tsk,Tsk, so Nationalism for America. Yes. But not for Indians? And you criticise Hozany for hypocritical behaviour? I don't condone Hozany's behaviour but you don't seem to be honest yourself.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 3:34 PM  

There are jews who are sound conservatives, and nationalists, but they keep their opinions out of the public sphere..I know one guy, a Professor still teaching in his '80s, like that....but he was born in Iraq, and doesn't care for Israelis or Israel...

Blogger CarpeOro June 24, 2019 3:38 PM  


Blogger Maximoushka June 24, 2019 3:39 PM  

^ my comment be read as 'So,you supported British Empire in India instead of them staying the hell out and Nationalism for India instead? American Nationalism, Yay! Sure. But why do you condone British Empire and Hastings being busybodies?

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 3:42 PM  

>Tsk,Tsk,Tsk, so Nationalism for America. Yes. But not for Indians? And you criticise Hozany for hypocritical behaviour? I don't condone Hozany's behaviour but you don't seem to be honest yourself.

You don't seem to understand the point..Hastings was carrying out Britain's Nationalist Imperial policy, and used friendly Indian states to do so for the most part and encouraged their nationalism to that extent, but he was a British Nationalist, not a one-worlder....Burke was a hypocrite for accepting the great benefits of Hastings' policy and actions, but then criticizing them to absurd lengths, and putting him on trial

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 3:44 PM  

Just as Burke accepted the great benefits of being upper class in a stable and prosperous society, then attacked its foundations....with the horrifying consequences seen in France.

Blogger Primus Pilus June 24, 2019 3:53 PM  

Mister Excitement wrote:The CivNats and Conservatives are showing how rotten and evil they are.

Here's True Conservative Erik Erickson defending pedophilia today:

"Confessing my unpopular opinion: The hypersexualization of pagans will end badly for them and many others, but

if a parent wants to dress their kid up as a drag queen, I don't think government has a role to play."

More proof that the "small government" conservatives worship is just one more vector by which they tie the right's hands in the culture war, by convincing it to never use the power of the state to advance truth and righteousness.

Refusing to use the power of the state just leaves a power vacuum that the Left gladly fills. "Small government" isn't a right-wing virtue, it's surrender.

Blogger Sam June 24, 2019 4:06 PM  

Correct. Moral rules are agreements; they require parties that can obey and uphold them. Those outside the rules do not benefit from all their protections.

You can disagree, but it rapidly turns into 'my, aren't we so much better then people in the past who did all these horrible things that were essential for us to live today'.

Blogger Cloudbuster June 24, 2019 4:11 PM  

(((Every single time.)))

Blogger Rex Leroy King June 24, 2019 4:16 PM  

National Conservatism != Conserving Your Nation

Blogger Jack Morrow June 24, 2019 4:22 PM  

David Brog was, for many years, the executive director of "Christians" United for Israel, despite not being a non-Christian Jew.

Blogger Stilicho June 24, 2019 4:25 PM  

Neocommies gonna neocommie.

Blogger pyrrhus June 24, 2019 4:30 PM  

<if a parent wants to dress their kid up as a drag queen, I don't think government has a role to play."

More proof that a society without God will rapidly sink to the level of wait, hunter/gatherers were better than that...

Blogger Barbarossa June 24, 2019 4:48 PM  

@32 Exactly correct. My objection to large government is that it is a sword to be picked up on the battlefield. The time for bemoaning the loss of limited government is past. We have to win this fight now and then kill the leviathan. There's the proverbial planning to fight the last war. Guys like Erickson are literally planning about what to do when the Macedonian phalanx makes its next appearance.

Blogger Eincrou June 24, 2019 4:56 PM  

Mr. Hazony isn't happy about all the memes you've been making about his Gatekeeped Nationalism!

Blogger RIBased June 24, 2019 5:21 PM  


Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 5:21 PM  

Perusing the line-up of speakers at this pseudo-nationalistic conference, I find these are the exact same people on the payroll of National Review, Heritage, AEI, Hoover, etc. Same-old, same-old. Plus a pathological amount of color.

One difference, however, is that they've excluded NeverTrumpers and some of the names at least I recognize as Trump supporters from before the election. That's the pivot they'll allow. Libertarians are still allowed in, because they're still no danger. But you won't find any "hard" right. I.e. people who don't talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Because biographical details of these sorts of people make my stomach turn like on a roller-coaster, I dug into one speaker. He wrote the memoir Hillbilly Elegy. Which I guess is a palatable book about the White Death.

It was a NYT bestseller and therefore likely the work of the devil. I find he was encouraged to write by a professor at Yale Law School, who happened to have also written a Tiger Mommy memoir. Because she is Chinese or something. Was this an actual mentor-mentee relationship, or is it like how Diana Ross "discovered" the Jackson Five.

He might've had yellow fever, because he appears to overcredit her as some sort of godmother figure. But he ended up with a Dot Indian, and they're brown not yellow. Amusingly, I saw a newspiece that has the Chinese mentor talking about his love affair with the Indian, because I guess they met under her tutelage. She says he described it would as love at first sight. The Indian describes him as a friend, unsurprisingly, but also--I kid you not--compliments his punctuality early in their acquaintanceship.

I might add he roughly resembles a grown Child of the Corn.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 5:25 PM  

@42- Oh, and cream on top: Wikipedia describes Tiger Mommy as under investigation for "grooming" girl students to go work for Brett Kavanaugh. That's literally the word they use. "Groom."

Blogger dienw June 24, 2019 5:30 PM  

The Jews found the grave of Edmund Burke and stole his skin; now they are wearing it and larping that they are in Burke's tradition: Jews are the ultimate replacement theologians.

Blogger peacefulposter June 24, 2019 5:37 PM  

Amusingly, I saw a newspiece that has the Chinese mentor talking about his love affair with the Indian

Odds are this is fake news. How many Chinese/Indian couples have you ever seen? They are extremely rare.

Blogger dienw June 24, 2019 5:38 PM  

Have you even read Edmund Burke? I have and you have misrepresented him.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 5:45 PM  

@45- Sorry if this wasn't clear: the white "hillbilly" is married to the Indian. The Chinese one was their female professor.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 5:47 PM  

@47- In keeping with tradition, the China Doll is married to a Jew.

Blogger Gettimothy June 24, 2019 5:55 PM  

"Yoram Hazony sounds just like"

I think with enough George Dickel, "Yur a mahzonee" may be utterable on Southern ground but only as a punch line to a forgotten joke.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 24, 2019 6:16 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:Hastings was carrying out Britain's Nationalist Imperial policy
There is no such thing. Imperialist is anti-Nationalist.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 24, 2019 6:21 PM  

Off Topic: A little help from the ilk please

When signed into my google e-mail I may post to a thread here as always. BUT, if I try to post again in that thread or another one the post goes into never-never land. It is like a freeze up.

Now if I shut down browser which on my machine does away with all cookies, history, and cache I can then post again.

This is not a huge deal as I don't really have all that much to say but it is weird. Anyone have any ideas on what the deal is?

Blogger Jim the Curmudgeon June 24, 2019 6:26 PM  

Hilarious. Jared Taylor has been genuflecting to Jews his entire career, refusing to discuss their role in mass immigration, feminism, or any other sort of movement aimed at transforming the west. Fat lot of good it did him. He deserves it for pretending that Jews are just another type of 'European', as opposed to a tribe that puts their interests first and foremost.

Someone has to write a book on the subversion of conservative politics by the Neocons. It has been wonderfully effective at vitiating actual conservative thought in the USA. If I had a dollar for every white boomer that tells me that Iran deserves a pasting, while simultaneously maintaining that the USS Liberty attack was just an accident....

Blogger Beardy Bear June 24, 2019 6:27 PM  

When Prager pushed him, sooner or later this outcome became likely.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 6:42 PM  

@52- "Someone has to write a book..."

Paul Gottfried has written along those lines.

Murray Rothbard's memoir Betrayal of the American Right is partly about that.

I think the John Birch Society has a biography of Buckley that hits the spot.

There's good information in Justin Raimondo's Reclaiming the American Right.

Blogger Mark Stoval June 24, 2019 6:52 PM  

@54 tublecane

Paul Gottfried, Murray Rothbard, Justin Raimondo and the Birch Society all in one post.

I like the cut of your jib. :-)

Blogger Jew613 June 24, 2019 6:55 PM  

VoC has a whole chapter against civic nationalism. Pg 155-166.

Blogger Jack (LJCSOGHMOMAS) June 24, 2019 7:23 PM  

Any term can be co-opted and redefined, and usually is. MPAI, so all you have to do is 1. define X as the good guys, and then 2. say that you are X. This is how Fox tells its viewers that it's "conservative" and most of those viewers just nod their dumb heads and watch the pretty lights.

So now they're doing it with "nationalist." They previously succeeded in defining nationalism as bad. Then Trump flipped the script, so now the goal is to redefine nationalism. "Oh yes, people, nationalism is good, and we're nationalists. By the way, nationalism is exactly the same as neoconservatism, which was exactly the same as neoliberalism!"

Blogger Mystic On Main June 24, 2019 7:40 PM  

It's a fairly straightforward task to be an American nationalists that recognize their country's indispensable spirit and intellectual foundation and at the same time understand that the posterity of the founding generation are no more and no less than the heirs of the Founder's spirit and ideas.

Blogger Gettimothy June 24, 2019 8:06 PM  

@40 he links to vdare.

5+ years ago, I was "banned" from RedState for linking to vdare in RedState's comment section.

civnattery is done

Blogger Balkan Yankee June 24, 2019 8:32 PM  

@42: The Internet tells me that J.D. Vance enlisted in the USMC after high school (a trillion bonus points) and became a community organizer in Iraq, aka a Public Affairs weenie (- a trillion bonus points).

Blogger Chris Mallory June 24, 2019 8:37 PM  

tublecane wrote:Hillbilly Elegy. That book was/is endlessly shilled by Rod Dreher. All a person needs to know about it.

Blogger JAG June 24, 2019 8:46 PM  

Mister Excitement wrote:The CivNats and Conservatives are showing how rotten and evil they are.

Here's True Conservative Erik Erickson defending pedophilia today:

"Confessing my unpopular opinion: The hypersexualization of pagans will end badly for them and many others, but

if a parent wants to dress their kid up as a drag queen, I don't think government has a role to play."

Many of us have been predicting "the Conservative (Inc.) case for pedophilia" for a while now. Figures that Erickson would be the first to actually go there.

Blogger Argus Bacchus June 24, 2019 8:56 PM  

@5 Mister Excitement, @32 Primus Pilus, @62 JAG

As a commentor recently said on a Darkstream, CivNats and Conservatives are just leftist globohomos in slow motion.

@56 Jew613

"VoC has a whole chapter against civic nationalism. Pg 155-166."

Barak Obama had a whole list of reasons to be against porous borders.

Blogger digz June 24, 2019 9:24 PM  

Almost bought his book. Warning at the perfect time. Thx!

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators June 24, 2019 10:27 PM  

Confessing my unpopular opinion: The hypersexualization of pagans will end badly for them and many others, but if a parent wants to dress their kid up as a drag queen, I don't think government has a role to play

Small government never meant anarchy. This man is obviously a leftist shill advancing an argument in bad faith ("I don't respect your retarded principle of small government but maybe if I jiujitsu it against you I'll get you to do what my masters want!"), but if he were being sincere, he would be an ancap not a conservative.

Blogger tublecane June 24, 2019 11:17 PM  

@65- I might be willing to listen if the context of family court and child protective services anarcho-tyranny were acknowledged. The state can't do anything about abusing a kid by gussying them up like a drag queen, but you could probably lose custody of your kid by showing him a picture of a gun? What say you, conscientious civil libertarian?

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel June 24, 2019 11:39 PM  


Years ago Erickson and his buddies ran Red State like an proto-SJW mob. As I recall, they harassed some posters for taking a position against same-sex marriage, they were met with the infamous "601 Redigestion error".

Vox addressed EE's relevance in February.

"Which raises the question, why does anyone still pay any attention to Erick Erickson or any of these cuckservatives?"

You shouldn't be surprised he couches his disinterest in moral debasement and libertinism in phony limited government. He can't even get the issue right. They aren't merely dressing them up, they are pandering them for money to arouse vile passions in depraved adults.

He's despicable.

Blogger SciVo June 25, 2019 2:05 AM  

Argus Bacchus wrote:Barak Obama had a whole list of reasons to be against porous borders.

As his most initially hopeful supporters have noted, it turned out that Obama had no principles, only preferences -- and not particularly strong ones. What the Establishment wanted, it got.

Even the densest American was treated to a front-row seat for eight years of soaring praise and stammering criticism that had less effect in practice than a twitter debate over whether hot dogs are sandwiches.

Anyone who still thinks that words matter in the face of actions is hopelessly gullible.

Blogger Thad Tuiol June 25, 2019 4:05 AM  

@52 I hear ya. The next cuckservative ziocuck who mouths those platitudes to me is getting a punch in the mouth.

Blogger wreckage June 25, 2019 4:10 AM  

Huh, that's a bit sad. His opening chapter laid out a pretty good, if predictably Israeli, basis for defining nationalism.

Blogger damaris.tighe June 25, 2019 5:32 AM  

Realistically,the presence of Jared Taylor and Peter Brimelow would leave this conference a smoking crater.
Having read some of Hazony's work I don't believe he is a civic nationalist. I wish him well with this attempt to insert more nationalism into acceptable political debate. Normalisation of nationalism is probably going to happen in stages.

Blogger JovianStorm June 25, 2019 5:55 AM  

I wish we could get Pat Buchanan in the z white house come 2024...

Blogger binks webelf June 25, 2019 8:06 AM  

Mr. Brimelow is not keeping quiet on his banning.

"Peter Brimelow
Jun 23

Being disinvited from @yhazony National Conservatism Conference caused me to reread his book and realize he nowhere mentions nation-states' ethnic dimension--suppresses Jewish Law's matrilineal descent requirement. Wonder why?"

Blogger Damelon Brinn June 25, 2019 8:12 AM  

A liberal today is someone who can look you in the eye and say, in one breath:

"You have to bake the gay wedding cake, bigot."
"Facebook is a private company so you have no free speech rights there, bigot."

A conservative is someone who thinks he can reason and bargain with that person.

Blogger Alexamenos June 25, 2019 8:33 AM  

We frequently call out the hypocrisy when (((people like Hazony))) say they're for nationalism or very strict immigration over there, but against the same things over here. Really theres just one standard--they want whats good for the tribe over there and whats good for the tribe over here.

I think we see this as a double standard because our quirky white brains which seem to be hard wired or at least culturally conditioned to think in universal terms. Kind of tough to tribe up when you're hard wired to think we all belong to one big happy tribe.

Blogger Avraham June 25, 2019 8:48 AM  

Nationalism has support from Hegel. But some people are not happy with Hegel liken Dr Kelley Ross and Michael Huemer. Brand Blanshard defends Hegel and also Walter Kaufman. My feeling about the State is that along the lines of Blandshard--that no human good is possible without the State. But why the state? Why not the village? or the whole world? The answer is like why the human brain works like it does. It is not that it is big. There are bigger brains. The point is it is right size for abstract thought. Too big would ruin it. So the state. Village would just be in conflict with other villages. world government is too big and just would be the same as war of all against all. The State is the right size for people to work together.

Blogger Avraham June 25, 2019 8:54 AM  

Hegel was trying to get to a kind of nationalism without the flaws of the French Revolution. And as Walter Kaufman noted he thought the America is the country of the future, not Prussia.--even though he did defend the Prussian system.

Blogger Sam June 25, 2019 2:14 PM  

England was ruled by a Franco-Swede elite and a German King (replacing the Dutch line). Like all the old regime it treated romantic nationalism with contempt.

Blogger I. Renarde June 26, 2019 6:16 AM  

You have Kevin MacDonald and Andrew Joyce talking about the Jews and their tribal identity. Everyone has dirt under their rug. KevMac thinks the Jewish IQ is 117.

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