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Friday, July 19, 2019

A tanker for a tanker

I don't see what Great Britain has to complain about, considering that they quite literally started it.
TWO British oil tankers with dozens of crew on board were seized by Iran's Revolutionary Guards less than an hour apart today in the Gulf.

The Government's Cobra committee is holding an emergency meeting in Whitehall tonight after the Stena Impero and Mesdar were halted by troops in speedboats and helicopters and diverted to Iran.

The raids came exactly two weeks after Royal Marines boarded a supertanker off Gibraltar suspected of carrying Iranian crude oil to Syria - prompting Tehran to threaten "retaliation".

British-flagged Stena Impero was sailing to the Saudi port of Jubail today but ship tracking data shows it veered off course with a sharp turn north at around 4.17pm UK time. Iran's state news agency IRNA said it had been "impounded" and claimed the tanker had turned off its tracker, ignored warnings from the Revolutionary Guards and was sailing in the wrong direction in a shipping lane.

The Impero was surrounded by four vessels and a helicopter. State-controlled TV claimed the ship was seized because it was "violating international maritime rules". Less than an hour later at around 5pm the Mesdar - Liberian-flagged but operated by the UK firm Norbulk Shipping UK - also turned sharply north towards Iran's coast having been surrounded by ten speedboats after passing westward through the Strait on its way to Ras Tanura.
It looks like the neoclowns couldn't get President Trump to bite, so they've got Theresa May doing their bidding in the hopes of enmeshing the US military that way. I suspect they're desperate to start a war in the Gulf in the hopes of creating a distraction from the coming Epstein-related arrests. And I very much doubt that either the President or the U.S. Navy is going to fall for the neoclown antics.

One article on the Daily Mail finally gets around to admitting that the Iranian response was both provoked and measured by the initial British action.
Fears were raised that the Iranian authorities were trying to seize a UK ship in retaliation for the detention of the Grace 1 tanker. The Iranian ship was detained off the coast of Gibraltar on July 4 after it was suspected of violating EU sanctions by carrying a cargo of crude oil destined for Syria. The ship's captain, chief officer and two second officers were arrested and bailed and an investigation is ongoing.

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called the tanker's seizure an act of 'piracy' on Tuesday and warned the UK to expect a response.
Of course they knew Iran would do something like this. However, I expect they were looking for a more violent escalation. It's a little hard to bang the war drums when the other side is obviously just responding in kind to your own actions.

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71 Comments:

Blogger Alexson July 19, 2019 7:24 PM  

The question for me is: will the British/US public really tolerate yet another war when both countries are undergoing so many societal/financial problems?

Blogger wahr01 July 19, 2019 7:37 PM  

Sounds like it's time to start arming merchant ships again.

The USA is pulling back from guaranteeing the safety of shipping lanes (as peter Zeihan predicted a some 10 years ago) and it's time for shipping companies to revert to self-armament to defend against pirates.

a couple phalanx turrets would have decimated their attackers on the horizon.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 7:40 PM  

Wow. And the American row-boats didn't see this happening?

What a joke.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 19, 2019 7:41 PM  

I've been on container ships where the crew have set up steam hoses and dummies all over the ship, to repel/discourage pirates (lots in SE Asia, apparently).It's also an open secret that many ships have a few shotguns aboard.

Blogger wahr01 July 19, 2019 7:45 PM  

@5

I'm still stupified we send expensive naval vessels against two-bit pirate raids like this one when 4 decade old navy surplus weapons could be passed out to would-be targets to eliminate the threat.

Then again, they're commies: the thought of merchant ships being armed must frighten them more than barbary slavers.

A final note:

The seizure of these ships does nothing to gain Tehran wealth because any attempts to trade their cargo will run straight into sanctions and blockade.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 7:57 PM  

In all defense, the Boxer isn't a cracker-box. It's coming.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 19, 2019 8:23 PM  

President Trump is doing a great job of showing the American people we actually *don't* have to act every time the neocons send up a flag. It's possible for Israel to bomb its neighbors and provoke responses, or for Arab-run countries like the UK and Iran to spar, and for the US to stay out of it without the world coming to an end. It's a strange new mode of thinking for Americans, but it just might catch on.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother July 19, 2019 8:24 PM  

Wahr01,

Literally yes, that to them is worse, being able to defend themselves. I remember guffawing out loud when I was watching the very first Fast and Furious. The SAIC character was explaining the worst case scenario to Paul Walker about what would happen if they couldn't stop Vin Diesel and his gang: the FBI's worst nightmare was that the truckers would arm themselves!

Blogger John Best. July 19, 2019 8:32 PM  

We saw this before with the globalists trying to use Britain to push the US into war with Russia and now they are doing the same with Iran. The Iranian response was obvious after the British nicked an Iranian tanker, the British don't have the navy to operate in the gulf and protect their flagged ships. The Iranians know the British don't have any capabilities and don't matter enough to get the US to defend them over some tankers. So once again the British state has built 2 super carriers without aircraft just as the carrier is getting out competed by new missiles and tactics, we build a very expensive base in Qatar for no reason and annoy Iran on behalf of the Neo-Cons. As a British person this is very humiliating seeing my nation used in such a away by these people. No amount of cricket world cups make up for it.

Blogger John Best. July 19, 2019 8:34 PM  

@1 Indeed, hopefully the nationalist faction within the British state can use the betrayal of Brexit and our humiliation by Iran to drive the Neo-Cons out of the state and Britain as a whole.

Blogger Crew July 19, 2019 8:40 PM  

I suspect they're desperate to start a war in the Gulf in the hopes of creating a distraction from the coming Epstein-related arrests.

Ahhh, yes. A real war instead of a false flag.

Blogger Lovekraft July 19, 2019 8:59 PM  

Started reading a recent Neonrevolt Epstein thread and talk about rabbit holes. Connections to Lansky mobsters, Bronfman liquor fortunes etc.

Definitely gives weight to any ME conflict being a red flag. The public is desperate to divide the proper from foreign cuture

Blogger Patrick Kelly July 19, 2019 9:01 PM  

Blockades and embargoes are acts of war.

Seizing the Iranian ship was an act of war. The justification was that Iran is selling oil to Syria in violation of EU sanctions. Iran is not part of the EU, their sanctions have nothing to do with Iran.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 9:14 PM  

Say goodbye to the Navy of Iran.

Blogger Hammerli 280 July 19, 2019 9:19 PM  

I think Trump is waiting for the Iranians to provide him with a clear causus belli. Seizing an American-flagged merchantman, attacking an American ship or aircraft.

Blogger Hammerli 280 July 19, 2019 9:24 PM  

WRT a war, it's worth remembering that the United States has won the conflict against foreign military forces. The big bog-down has happened when American politicians tried to impose a modern liberal democracy on nations with no tradition of such.

Culture matters, a lot. Americans are so marinated in democratic forms that many of us can't wrap our minds around any sort of governance.

Blogger Crew July 19, 2019 9:24 PM  

The Iranian ship was detained off the coast of Gibraltar on July 4 after it was suspected of violating EU sanctions by carrying a cargo of crude oil destined for Syria.

There is something wrong here. Why is an Iranian vessel carrying crude oil to Syria cruising off the coast of Gibraltar?

Gibraltar is at the Western end of the Mediterranean and nowhere near either Syria or Iran or the Suez Canal.

Blogger VD July 19, 2019 9:24 PM  

Say goodbye to the Navy of Iran.

Yee-haw! Weez gonna whomp them boys just like we did them Viet-cong, sure nuff, Clay!

You really need to not comment on military affairs.

I think Trump is waiting for the Iranians to provide him with a clear causus belli.

Trump has zero intention of going to war with Iran. He knows it's a distraction from his mission. I expect he'll make lots of noises, maybe lob a few missiles, and continue cock-blocking the neoclowns while he rounds up the pedos.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 9:36 PM  

We'll see, VD. The best option I see, is the sinking of the Iranian navy. Loss of life will be minimal. I certainly don't "yee-haw" that crap, but it will take them down.

Ever heard of the Cyclones?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/navy%E2%80%99s-13-cyclone-class-patrol-boats-would-be-first-fight-iran-war-67552

Your heard of "military" is all past tense.

Blogger VD July 19, 2019 9:40 PM  

The best option I see, is the sinking of the Iranian navy.

Then you're reprehensibly stupid.

Iran has the capability of not only closing the Strait for some time, but creating a world of hurt for the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. Iran possesses a build up of anti-ship weapons called Sunburn missiles, which it has procured from Russia and China over the last decade. These are top-notch weapons developed by the Russians as a low-cost challenge to the expensive, tech-heavy weaponry of the U.S., and specifically the aircraft carrier task force.

Iran threatens to be the USA's Sicilian Expedition if it is dumb enough to fall for the trap.

Blogger ZhukovG July 19, 2019 9:44 PM  

It's bad when your country is a puppet of the United States. But when your country is a puppet of a mere US faction, a weakening faction at that, it's downright humiliating.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 9:53 PM  

OK, VD, call me stupid, even reprehensibly, as you will.

We'll see. You're not right all the time, either.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 19, 2019 10:05 PM  

I think Trump is waiting for the Iranians to provide him with a clear causus belli.

Why would he need to wait? According to the bi-partisan Washington establishment, Iran has already provided several of those. If he wanted to go to war with Iran--or North Korea, Russia, Venezuela, Syria, etc.--he could have several times by now. It might have even bought him a couple days of positive MSM coverage.

How on earth can anyone still think Trump *wants* to go to war with Iran? Turn off the fucking TV.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 19, 2019 10:08 PM  

Count the wars that Trump has been stampeded into so far. It's only been two and a half years, but he has a pretty good record so far.

I'm guessing Trump is more interested in embarrassing the mullahs than sinking ships.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl July 19, 2019 10:27 PM  

Why the f**k would we do anything to Iran, you window licking Boomer?
They're no threat to us.

Blogger Clay July 19, 2019 10:54 PM  

HouellebecqGurl wrote:Why the f**k would we do anything to Iran, you window licking Boomer?

They're no threat to us.


Yeah, tell that crap to the crew of the USS Boxer

Blogger David Craig July 19, 2019 10:58 PM  

It seems many people don't realize how vulnerable large cumbersome ships are (and tanks, armored vehicles, helicopters, and airplanes as well, really). My light infantry company ruined a tank battalion in an experimental training exercise, using a handful of shoulder-fired missiles from a mile or two away. Cruisers and aircraft carriers are essentially motionless massive targets with no terrain to use for concealment. And just like a tank, one well-placed rocket can disable or destroy them. Vox is absolutely right on this one.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 19, 2019 11:05 PM  

Everything we are told about Iran. Or everything we are told about everything, is a lie.
And in an atrium of lies there is only one thing you can do: believe nothing. Do nothing. Period.
No more neocons singing and we tap dance.
I can think of more than just an angry brown racist congresswoman, voted in by enemy people, who needs to go back. Or not even "back" if they were born here. Exile is legit.
If the present system can't deliver, then the one that replaces it will.

Blogger pyrrhus July 19, 2019 11:18 PM  

It's amazing the number of commenters who simply refuse to understand that all surface ships are sitting ducks for inexpensive missiles, long range torpedoes, and soon, energy weapons....I'm pretty sure that the USN is not that ignorant.

Blogger RusticFederalist July 19, 2019 11:37 PM  

Clay wrote:We'll see, VD. The best option I see, is the sinking of the Iranian navy. Loss of life will be minimal. I certainly don't "yee-haw" that crap, but it will take them down.

Ever heard of the Cyclones?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/navy%E2%80%99s-13-cyclone-class-patrol-boats-would-be-first-fight-iran-war-67552

Your heard of "military" is all past tense.


The competence of the US military is past tense. Regardless, the Deep State will not allow the military the ability to victoriously conclude a war. You risk way too much when you bet on a quick bloodless war to puff out our chests. Too much of the United States' recent history indicates that the military will be dragged into a horrific and illegal war that will be geometrically more expensive than Iraq has been. You dance to the tune of people who have your injury in their heart, and who take advantage of your manly pride and dignity.

Consider how ridiculous this situation is. They make the world's economy dependent on commodity shipping through a narrow channel straddled by feuding barbarous peoples. Then they leave the control of the production in the hands of those barbarous peoples, bring them up to modern technological standards such that they can now threaten the shipping passing through that channel. Then they act indignant when the feuding barbarous peoples' barbarous feuds endanger the world economy.

Trying to maintain imperial ventures is an exercise in entropy generation. The situation that has been created in the Persian Gulf is unsustainable. The West is evidentially incapable of providing a permanent resolution to that situation beneficial to our interests with our current mindset. The West will not be developing a mindset to accomplish this resolution in the next five years, and probably not in the next generation. The West is just going to have to accept that we must do without the resources from that region, and adjust our standards of living and ways of living to accommodate this reality. I wish the United States government would extricate itself from there in the time which it has left.

There will be people who will squeal that Russia or China will move in, but that is fine, they do not have a track record of totalitarian interference comparable to the current governments of the West. Let their people absorb the entropic costs of empire, while we redeem ourselves and rebuild our strength.

There will be some people who squeal that Iran will become a monstrous threat if left unchecked. The weight of history is pushing against us in opposition to this, because for thousands of years the dominant Iranian state has naturally expanded outwards into the Middle East. Our government has to give up its non-Christian attempts at playing God with everyone else. And in any event, Iran poses no threat to us in North America - they are not our problem. If they are a regional threat then let Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, or a concert of European countries deal with them.

NO MORE AMERICAN BLOOD FOR FOREIGN SOIL.

Blogger RusticFederalist July 19, 2019 11:38 PM  

As George Washington said in his Farewell Address:

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?

Blogger werekoala2004 July 19, 2019 11:39 PM  

All you have to do is look at a map of the region to know that Iran can choke the straits with nothing more that land based missiles. I grew up in the early/mid 80's and played war-games (computer and hex and paper) and I know that a Tanker War is a losing proposition. If they want to do it, it would have been done last week. I can't imagine a scenario where Iran would do this unless a) they were suicidal or b) they had atomic weapons that could threaten the region. I ain't buying it.

Blogger werekoala2004 July 19, 2019 11:48 PM  

And that's the thing - we've been taught that "only" nuclear weapons are to be feared. We subdued Japan with nothing but atomic bombs, which are much easier to build. I have no doubt that Iran and pretty much anyone else can make atomic bombs. You don't have to evaporate an entire city with one warhead. Just drop a 10 kt warhead on Mecca, or Tel Aviv, or Bern. Who would haggle at that point?

Blogger Crew July 20, 2019 12:03 AM  

Yeah, tell that crap to the crew of the USS Boxer

And while you are at it, spare a thought for the crew of USS Liberty. They got a worse deal.

Blogger justaguy July 20, 2019 12:20 AM  

While hopefully the US stays completely out of this mess the Brits started, the destructiveness of modern warfare is something that is not commonly understood. Iran is not a low level force as was Iraq the two times the US invaded.

While the US could use airpower to clear enough missiles and a/c from Iran to keep the oil lanes in the Gulf open, it would be more than a few surgical airstrikes. No one knows how effective the Russian anti-air systems will be, nor who would man them. The US would have to be ready for POWs and such, as well as disruption of the oil lanes from Iran asymmetric warfare. Nothing easy, but something that could be accomplished in a few weeks of continual bombing accompanied by lots and lots of TV publicized Iran civilian casualties.

Of course, disrupting the oil lanes in the Gulf hurts China much more than us, so hopefully we will ignore the English provocation.

Blogger Thad Tuiol July 20, 2019 1:54 AM  

Hey (((Clay))), why don't you go and tell YOUR CRAP to the survivors of the USS Liberty.

Blogger Jonathon Davies July 20, 2019 2:24 AM  

It's all a globalist distraction, deliberately so, while they once again betray Brexit. Hamfisted misdirection.

Blogger tublecane July 20, 2019 2:29 AM  

@1- Depends on the size of the war, I suppose. Afghanistan has been trudging steadily along for 50 years or whatever it's been without people much noticing. Except occasionally when helicopters crash into eachother or they want a surge.

Sufficient morale for the kind of war necessary to topple the ruling Iranian regime would require something on the order 9/11, I'm thinking. Not even a hostage crisis would do the trick. Then again, we waste so much money on so much else, who knows?

War might collapse in its own before the public is roused to lash back, on account of the pitiful state of our military. Admiral Laqueefa sinking the fleet because a spider got in her weave, or something equally ridiculous is destined to happen.

Blogger Jack Ward July 20, 2019 2:32 AM  

I think Iran could play it cool. Treat the tanker crew very well for a week or so; release the ship[s], and inform everyone 'leave our ships alone and we will return the favor' They get good world press and also get to keep their 'navy'. And, shore batteries, and anti-air. We really do need to stay out of that bottle neck.

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators July 20, 2019 2:57 AM  

Yee-haw! Weez gonna whomp them boys just like we did them Viet-cong, sure nuff, Clay!

I thought I was the only one who said "Yee-haw!" in response to Dubayaesque logic. I love you Vox.

Blogger Unknown July 20, 2019 3:14 AM  

Crew wrote:Yeah, tell that crap to the crew of the USS Boxer

And while you are at it, spare a thought for the crew of USS Liberty. They got a worse deal.


And the USS Tripoli, USS Princeton, and USS Samuel B Roberts, all of which took mine hits in Desert Storm.

And then there is USS Stark, which ate two Exocets launched from Iraqi jets.

A guy I worked with on my first ship was on the Tripoli at the time. He was a True Believer™ in Damage Control.
-Unknownsailor-

Blogger Paul M July 20, 2019 4:13 AM  

> "The Iranian ship was detained off the coast of Gibraltar on July 4 after it was suspected of violating EU sanctions by carrying a cargo of crude oil destined for Syria."

Under what theory, exactly, does the EU police the Gulf of Persia?

Blogger Teleros July 20, 2019 4:33 AM  

"Under what theory, exactly, does the EU police the Gulf of Persia?"

Look where it was captured again. Gibraltar, not the ME. Sad that my country is still not free of the people orchestrating this stuff, but seems clear the Iranians have to gamble every time they move through unfriendly waters.

Blogger Sargent.matrim July 20, 2019 6:04 AM  

Consider US senator Dan Crenshaw's comments on Iran, should we view him as the new John McCain? Is he the stand in patriot with military cred used to garnish up support from old school Americans?

I find it interesting his rise comes straight after McCain's passing.

Also I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist for pointing out to a friend online that we are being manipulated into calling for war with Iran.

I forget sometimes how much people who dont read this blog, or similar sources, are at a disadvantage in understanding our world. Cheers for the solid work here Vox and the rest.

Blogger Sargent.matrim July 20, 2019 6:07 AM  

Damn, the old America was awesome.

Blogger Sargent.matrim July 20, 2019 6:14 AM  

*considering

Blogger Avalanche July 20, 2019 7:40 AM  

"dozens of crew on board"

Not ONE of whom is English, or even British!

Blogger OneWingedShark July 20, 2019 8:01 AM  

Clay wrote:HouellebecqGurl wrote:Why the f**k would we do anything to Iran, you window licking Boomer?
They're no threat to us.

Yeah, tell that crap to the crew of the USS Boxer

Yeah? Tell that crap to the crew of the USS Liberty.

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Count the wars that Trump has been stampeded into so far. It's only been two and a half years, but he has a pretty good record so far.

I'm guessing Trump is more interested in embarrassing the mullahs than sinking ships.

I'm convinced that the reason that Trump doesn't openly use the power of the Executive branch and/or that of the Commander-in-Chief is because he's utterly fixated on the role of "master negotiator" — and in the case of war, this means that a failure to defuse the situation would be [considered by him] a colossal failure on his part.

Blogger Skyler the Weird July 20, 2019 8:18 AM  

You needn't go to war. Obama said the only choice was war with the Mullahs or appeasing them conveniently blinded by his half Iranian advisor that the people were in the streets protesting the regime during the Green Revolution. They could have supported the opposition and maybe the Islamic Republic might have been overthrown internally, but no they have the Mullahs money to keep them in power.

Blogger English Tom July 20, 2019 8:19 AM  

Just more glaring examples that the rule of law in the world system has been steadily degraded. Sadly, Britain has been a major instigator in these developments, leading to increased anarchy in the world system.

Agree with Vox on war as a powerful distraction to the unfolding Epstein shenanigans.

Blogger Clay July 20, 2019 8:34 AM  

"dozens of crew on board"

Not ONE of whom is English, or even British!


Avalanche, in my career, I have been onboard many ocean-going tankers. In my experience, most of the Officers were of the Greek or Scandinavian persuasion. I can remember having lunch with the Captain and his officers on a particular ship, in the port of Houston. They all wore starched white uniforms, the meal was quite good, and the waiter was dressed to the "T", and kept the wine glasses full. One thing that struck me was the Captain, himself. He was 28 years old, and commanding a 75 million dollar ship. 4th generation mariner. After lunch, we took a tour of the ship. It was a new Stolthaven ship, and he was very proud of it. We even peeked into the crew quarters. We were informed the crew preferred to maintain their living space as personal. The "crews", on most of the vessels I ever visited, were most courteous, and very efficient. They were almost always
Filipinos. It was my understanding, that Fililipino boys grow up wishing they can crew on an ocean-going ship.

No criticism to your comment, just giving you an understanding of how "crews" might be interpreted.

Blogger Rex Little July 20, 2019 8:34 AM  

Hypothetical question for anyone here with actual knowledge and expertise concerning today's military realities:

Imagine an all-out war between Britain and Iran. No other countries get involved--not Israel, the US, Russia, China, etc. Neither side uses nukes, but other than that no holds barred. Who wins?

Blogger Avalanche July 20, 2019 8:45 AM  

@51 "No criticism to your comment"

Um, Clay? You didn't notice that your comment EXACTLY backs mine up? I wrote:

"dozens of crew on board"
Not ONE of whom is English, or even British!


I figured the Captain was probably Scandinavian of some sort; and yes, the officers were OTHER Europeans, and the crew was Filipino or perhaps, less likely, some Indonesians. How is your agreeing with me criticism?

Blogger Clay July 20, 2019 8:52 AM  

Um Avalanche, I was jut trying to make sure you would realize that I wasn't criticizing you.

Blogger Crush Limbraw July 20, 2019 8:58 AM  

You've hit on something, Sargent.matrim - "I forget sometimes how much people who dont read this blog, or similar sources, are at a disadvantage in understanding our world. Cheers for the solid work here Vox and the rest."
And they won't read it when I send them a copy or link to it.
And then they send me stuff that reflects the state of the world 30 years ago! 'Rah-rah-sis-boom-bah' and all that crap.
Yeah - you can lead a horse to water etc.

Blogger Clay July 20, 2019 8:59 AM  

I was just trying to expound on your comment, a little bit. For those who may not understand the "crew" implications.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein July 20, 2019 9:00 AM  

Sometimes I go full Jed Clampett.

Yee Doggy!

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein July 20, 2019 9:04 AM  

B-b-b-but they've been six months away from developing nuclear weapons for the last twenty-five years!

Blogger xevious2030 July 20, 2019 9:15 AM  

"is because he's utterly fixated on the role of 'master negotiator'"

Looking primarily at continuing actual accomplishment, as a sign of focus, there is one thing he is focused on. That is the economy. Keeping us out of wars is second, as a mixed bag. There have been no new wars (including guerilla to overthrow the Venezuela regime, right or wrong), but there has been no final military withdrawal, much of anywhere. Economy is king. Everything is bread and circuses. Will see what comes of Epstein tentacles, that is the juicy bits, the missing scale.

Blogger OneWingedShark July 20, 2019 9:43 AM  

xevious2030 wrote:"is because he's utterly fixated on the role of 'master negotiator'"

Looking primarily at continuing actual accomplishment, as a sign of focus, there is one thing he is focused on. That is the economy. Keeping us out of wars is second, as a mixed bag. There have been no new wars (including guerilla to overthrow the Venezuela regime, right or wrong), but there has been no final military withdrawal, much of anywhere. Economy is king. Everything is bread and circuses. Will see what comes of Epstein tentacles, that is the juicy bits, the missing scale.

The problem with "the economy" right now is that there's tons of fraud and illegal activities propping it up — take, for example, the H1B infestation of tech: it's blindingly obvious that these companies are engaging in fraud in order to force job openings to H1Bs. So much so, that it's likely a good prosecutor could RICO them into oblivion, destroying the big names in tech. (And probably taking out multiple networks of NGOs and human-trafficking, if it were competently and vigorously investigated and prosecuted.)

What would that do to the tech industry? What would that do to the economy?

Now, consider the impact of illegals in agriculture — it's the same there: cracking down on the illegals would destroy the economy as the prices of food go up to compensate for hiring legal labor.

Consider, also, the construction industry.

The SINGLE item most Americans voted for in 2016 was the end of all this bull-shit: that is what Build the Wall! really means.

Blogger Brett baker July 20, 2019 9:47 AM  

They do have better self-defense capabilities, though.
Provided they're turned on.

Blogger Brett baker July 20, 2019 9:54 AM  

Well, it looks like the Brits are gonna go all in on sanctions now.

Blogger Chris Mallory July 20, 2019 12:27 PM  

OneWingedShark wrote:Now, consider the impact of illegals in agriculture — it's the same there: cracking down on the illegals would destroy the economy as the prices of food go up to compensate for hiring legal labor.



Current labor cost for produce is usually less than 5% of the retail cost. Farm labor is paid pennies.

In 2015, tomato pickers in FL were paid 60 - 75 cents for each box of tomatoes picked depending on which harvest they were working on. A box averages 30-35 pounds. This morning, Wal Mart is selling tomatoes for $1.50+ a pound.

Blogger Crew July 20, 2019 3:23 PM  

Current labor cost for produce is usually less than 5% of the retail cost. Farm labor is paid pennies.

They can learn to code. Oh, wait.

Blogger Up from the pond July 20, 2019 3:34 PM  

British Jews started World War 1 and World War 2. No surprise they're starting World War 3 as well.

Blogger Ken Younos July 20, 2019 4:03 PM  

I don't believe in equal fairness and consideration given toward Iran. I'm not a fan of the UK, but whenever things come down to siding with either the UK or Iran, I'm always going to side with the UK. And when things come down to the USA or Iran - there is no question! Death to Iran.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 20, 2019 10:34 PM  

Current labor cost for produce is usually less than 5% of the retail cost.

Yeah, I ran the numbers on some examples several years ago. Basically, you could triple or quadruple the wages of everyone laboring in the fields, and it would barely show up at the grocery store. The cost of a gallon of gas changes more in an average week.

Blogger gunner451 July 20, 2019 11:11 PM  

This is all Jimmy Carters fault. If he had not betrayed the Shaw of Iran none of this would be happening.

Blogger Daniel July 21, 2019 10:45 AM  

That scene got stuck in my mind too, for some reason.

Blogger Daniel July 21, 2019 10:50 AM  

Made me remember when turkey shot down a russian plane perhaps two years ago. Every idiot was about "goodbye turkey"
Now they are buying s400.
Stupid automatic obvious retaliation is not what smart leaders do

Blogger DourCdn July 21, 2019 1:46 PM  

True, sometimes you have to let the kids work out their differences, without interfering.

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