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Sunday, July 21, 2019

The gamma never grows up

Rod Dreher explains why he is such a useless, hapless cuck and why he always will be:
If I had to pick one single event that formed my outlook on the world, it would be a couple of minutes on the floor of a hotel room at the beach, in the summer of 1982. I was part of a group of high school kids from our town who were on a summer vacation. We were chaperoned by several parents of kids on the trip. The cool kids had been pushing me and a couple of other kids around the whole time, but it was relatively minor stuff. One afternoon, when a bunch of us kids gathered in one of the hotels’ suites, group of older high school boys threw me onto the ground, pinned me, and tried to pull down my pants. The goals was to humiliate me for the amusement of the high school girls in the room.

I was 14. And I was terrified.

They had been picking on me for days, but this was a real escalation. What made it so important to the development of my worldview was that I was lying on the floor, pinned and helpless as I struggled to get free, I called out to the two adults in the room to help me. Both of them literally stepped over me to get out of the room. As I’m sitting here writing this, nearly four decades later, I can recall with crystal clarity the stitching on the pants leg of the jeans one of those moms wore as she stepped over me (the other mom went around me).

After a minute or so more, the boys let me up, and I ran away. They never took my pants down; they were just toying with me. For all I know, as the two moms left the room, they signaled to the boys to knock it off. The point is, though, that rather than use the authority they had to force this idiot small mob of boys, and the girls who stood on the hotel room beds jumping up and down, squealing and egging them on, to stand down, they walked away. No doubt because they wanted to stay in good with the cool kids. These were the kind of moms who wanted to be friends with their teenagers, not authorities.

Here’s something else: this was not an angry mob (and not much of a mob either: maybe seven or eight boys, and that many girls). They were merry. I was a mouse, and they were cats. They were doing something vicious, but to them, they were just having fun. There was no point to what they did other than to amuse themselves by the suffering of someone who couldn’t fight back.

The whole thing might have lasted two minutes at most. But the shock waves of that have reverberated throughout my life. I learned more in those two minutes about the way the world really works than I have learned in five decades, though it took a very long time for me to understand that.
Dreher would still rather cry to Mommy than fight. That's why he's a useless, hapless cuck. That's why he will ALWAYS be a useless, hapless cuck, crying and complaining about those who are actually willing to take action to protect themselves, their family, and their nation.

He could have fought that day. He should have fought. He would have lost, but he would never have known the shame and humiliation that burns inside him and perverts his thinking to this day. And had he fought back at the onset of the tormenting, the older boys would never have used him for public amusement in front of the girls, but because he was a coward, he made it clear to them that he was a soft and easy target.

And that's why Dreher is attacking Trump. He's triggered by the President's alpha nature. He only sees the bully and not the champion of the American people the President has sworn to protect. Dreher doesn't realize that Trump is trying to do what the 14-year-old Dreher was begging the two moms to do, and defending those who are incapable of defending themselves from the global mob that is invading and attacking them. Dreher just wants to cuck, and cluck, and virtue-signal, instead of defend his family and his nation.

The lesson is this: never, ever, trust a coward. They will never fight, not to save themselves, not to save their nations, and certainly not to save you. And worse, they will attack those who are willing to fight, because that very willingness to fight fills them with shame and self-loathing.

I first got beaten up in first grade. I went through seven pairs of glasses by the time I finished elementary school, usually from getting them broken repeatedly in fights. In ninth grade, I was beaten up by two of my soccer teammates and had a rib cracked from one of them kicking me when the other - a varsity wrestler - got me down. I didn't win a single fight until I was in eighth grade, when I managed to win two. But despite seven straight years of uninterrupted defeat and physical punishment, I don't harbor any of Dreher's sense of childhood shame and humiliation, because no one ever took me on twice.

We all show the shape of our formative years. But as Dreher's incessant cuckery shows, the self-inflicted humiliation of youthful cowardice is one from which few men are capable of recovering.

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167 Comments:

Blogger Whitecloak July 21, 2019 11:22 AM  

How much of a nerd was he? He should've jabbed an elbow or shown some defiance. Had he stood up for himself a bit I bet those guys would've left him alone, if not appreciated the bantz and gained respect for him.

No wonder he conserves nothing.

Blogger Brett baker July 21, 2019 11:23 AM  

More like the other boys were dogs, and Dreher was a pussycat.

Blogger Tars Tarkas July 21, 2019 11:24 AM  

This is one of the driving forces of a lot of SJWs. But with SJWs, the bullying they endured as kids has led to them embracing a revenge fantasy. They think they can team up with the people who hate us and take deep satisfaction in watching it burn. The people they team up with hate and despise them the most. Few things can induce disgust in a person than watching a traitor or coward and they are both.

Blogger Stilicho July 21, 2019 11:34 AM  

It never even occurred to Dreher to fight, only to whine. I have a hard time grokking that mindset. He didn't even resist enough to make an escape. Worse, after this humiliation he didn't learn to defend himself even enough to avoid future humiliations. Instead, he made a career of whining. He doubled down. I strongly suspect he invited the humiliation by making snarking comments about the other boys because he thought the adult women would protect him from consequences. He was trying to hide behind their skirts. I also suspect those women ignored his pleas because they thought he deserved the consequences of running his mouth.

Blogger Joe A. July 21, 2019 11:37 AM  

Few men are capable of recovering. That is a hard truth.

Blogger Quilp July 21, 2019 11:38 AM  

Apparently Dreher never saw the old Charles Atlas beach/sand cartoons ads?
The thing he took from that humiliation was the memory of stitching on mom jeans. Oof.

The revenge of that nerd is to write a column 37 years later whining about it? I wouldn't trust that man to care for my dog for 5 minutes, much less listen to his arguments about the President that I voted for protecting my interests.

Blogger Verne July 21, 2019 11:41 AM  

"because no one ever took me on twice"

We were all taught that truth. Stand up don't take it. Its better to get a single ass whooping than be humiliated every day. I don't think these guys had fathers or brothers or friends. Because all of them told me to fight during those few years I was not very big. Fight give them the best you can. After that it will not be worth it to pick on you. Because you will fight

Now we see what became of the guys who would just rolled over. And that is exactly what our school systems demand our boys do today. I trained mine to fight back. He did and no one other than school officials messed with him. More than once

Blogger MATT July 21, 2019 11:43 AM  

Cats beat the shit out of dogs

Blogger Shimshon July 21, 2019 11:49 AM  

Rod Dreher is a bully for subjecting his readers to a Wall of Text, itself a massive Gamma tell.

Blogger doctrev July 21, 2019 11:53 AM  

Of course Dreher's a pussy and the "Benedict Option" reflects that entirely, despite being about as secure and useful as a monastery in Pakistan. But that also illustrates why he cucks as hard as he does (he's terrified of his fellow leftists devouring him), and why he will be an easy target for Antifa when they get around to addressing his "transphobia" and other hate sins.

To be fair, it takes enormous amounts of balls to work for a Washington think-tank AND declare yourself a proud American nationalist. Ostracism and then violence are your likeliest problems. But then, there are inevitable penalties for going the coward's route as well.

Blogger maniacprovost July 21, 2019 11:55 AM  

His response of being astonished, confused, and not reacting is reasonable if it's the first time he was ever picked on. Of course it wasn't and apparently he never attempted to do anything about it.

"in the Jim Crow era, my dad and white people of his generation really did believe that maintaining a just public order required treating black people — the poorest of the poor in our part of the world — as second-class citizens.
Some of them believed in employing extrajudicial violence to maintain that order. "

In the article, he's STILL condemning people who fight back on their own, even after he described in detail how authorities are worthless mobs that stand by and do nothing. The Catholic Church is fallible, and therefore he lost his belief in Catholicism; secular authorities are fallible, but we should NEVER do anything other than trust in them to handle Justice.

Blogger Haus frau July 21, 2019 11:55 AM  

If dreher admits that being direct and fighting the bully himseld is the correct path then that makes him a coward in a mundane highschool hazing and not a tragic victim of a great injustice. Lots of kids get bullied. We choose how to respond to it. He was himiliated by his own choices and he can't face that. I agree, he probably baited the hazing by running his mouth too.

Blogger Shimshon July 21, 2019 11:59 AM  

Vox, with all that violence directed at you, what kind of school did you attend?! You mentioned being a bit of a runt when young. So was I.

I was a victim of bullying, but it was only one person, and it was pretty minor and sporadic, and just stopped at some point. Even without me fighting back. Which I should have done. And which I encouraged my own sons to do when they experienced problems like that in school. They weren't runts either.

It certainly wasn't definitional in or about my life. It was one person, not a pattern. I was long over it, when at 19 and working in a movie theater, I recognized him as he was going to see a movie. He recognized me too, smiled at me, and apologized for being such a jerk years earlier. I didn't need closure, but it was a nice gesture.

Blogger James Dixon July 21, 2019 12:00 PM  

> He could have fought that day. He should have fought.

Of course. One of the boys was the leader. They're easy to spot, and if Dreher hadn't been a terrified coward he would have know who it was. Take the fight to him, and inflict enough pain that he'll never want to take you on again. It doesn't take much, as simply bloody nose is often enough. You'll lose that fight, but in the long run you'll win the war.

> ...because no one ever took me on twice.

Exactly.

> Worse, after this humiliation he didn't learn to defend himself even enough to avoid future humiliations.

If it's that bad, simply carry a good knife. There's no such thing as a fair fight. Yeah, the will be negative consequences. So?

> I trained mine to fight back. He did and no one other than school officials messed with him. More than once.

Again, exactly. I was a small, underweight kid. No one ever started a fight with me twice. And I probably lost more than I won.

Blogger Caleo July 21, 2019 12:01 PM  

What's worse is that Rod regularly references this single defining moment of his youth as the reason for his political positions today. I've read him on and off for a few years, and this one keeps coming back up. What also comes back up a lot is that his father was a stern, traditional Southern patriarch, loved hunting and fishing and physical labor, and Rod acknowledges the disappointment that he generated in his father because Rod turned out so soft in relation to his paw, as he calls him. His paw tried to introduce Rod to hunting and outdoor activities, and Rod rejected it. This disappointment shadowed their relationship for the rest of his father's life. It never occurred to Rod to try a little harder to fit into his father's world. Just run.
Not coincidentally, Rod is also close friends with David French.

Blogger Slen July 21, 2019 12:07 PM  

Wow, reading Dreher's sniveling account was downright cringe-worthy. Kinda reminds me of that knucklehead "journalist" who described his feelings after firing that AR-15. Pussies....

Blogger Welsh Woodsman July 21, 2019 12:10 PM  

In first grade we were all lined up waiting to go onstage for some stupid year end presentation. A class bully wouldn’t stop picking on me so, I gave him a round house punch to his face. It busted his nose hard sending blood all over him, myself and the white blouses of a couple of female classmates standing next to us. I thought I’d killed him. What a s!!tshow. Needless to say , we didn’t go out onstage as planned- but that kid never messed with me ever again.
There were other fights that were fought, some won, some lost and sadly even a few I chickened out on. The worst beatings I ever got were from my older brother. I was never able to win when we tangled. Today - we just laugh about it and reminisce about the good old days. Fighting as kids was a necessary rite of passage.

Blogger berb2000 July 21, 2019 12:12 PM  

A group of idiot stoner dudes in my neighborhood killed my fucking dog when I was 16 and I beat the shit out of two of them. I leveled a 22 rifle at another one of them when he came to my house to "apologize".
If that dude was traumatized by some silly shit like that, I wish I could put his stupid ass in a time machine and place him in the neighborhood I grew up in.

Blogger Stickwick Stapers July 21, 2019 12:16 PM  

He could have fought that day. He should have fought. He would have lost, but he would never have known the shame and humiliation that burns inside him and perverts his thinking to this day.

If you talk to people who've had traumatic experiences at the hands of others, you find that the ones who fought back, even if they were unsuccessful, ended up far less damaged by the experiences than those who didn't. For a particularly painful demonstration of this, you only need to read Moira Greyland's account of her upbringing in The Last Closet. Of all the children involved in that familial nightmare, Moira was the only one who resisted and was the only one who emerged from that situation as a functional person.

Blogger The Cooler July 21, 2019 12:18 PM  

Rod Dreher is a latent homosexual with thyroid problems and an obvious assortment of hormonal imbalances.

He should have been bullied right out of the gene pool.

Blogger Nostromo July 21, 2019 12:19 PM  

That was the first thought that popped into my head too. He has gone from crying about being bullied to being a cry-bully. I can't imagine what his home life must be like, fearfully of whatever he loves finding someone, or something stronger, which is pretty much anything else in the world.

Blogger FP July 21, 2019 12:28 PM  

"Not coincidentally, Rod is also close friends with David French."

You don't say? Figures.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( all aboard the Askren hype train ) July 21, 2019 12:30 PM  

7. Verne July 21, 2019 11:41 AM
We were all taught that truth.


obviously not true. otherwise the Dreher article and GOPE leadership wouldn't exist.


7. Verne July 21, 2019 11:41 AM
And that is exactly what our school systems demand our boys do today.


ah. so you admit as much.

and you've done what to fight your school system over their bullshit policies?

Blogger Welsh Woodsman July 21, 2019 12:31 PM  

Regarding molesters and victimhood. Once.. and only once , did an adult in a position of power make a pass on me. I was fifteen. Headed to a male teacher’s class for tutoring. It was after hours so it was only the two of us in the stairwell. As I ran ahead of him, he slapped me on the ass. This guy was a Vietnam Vet ex Seal, so a skinny short kid like myself wasn’t exactly going to tangle with him. So... following that incident I made damn sure he never got near me while I was alone. I never told anyone about it. But , following that incident, I always remained on guard and vigilant about him and his presence. This kept me from ever getting touched by that sick fuck -ever again. I was always one step ahead of him -insuring he couldn’t get near me.

Blogger exfarmkid July 21, 2019 12:43 PM  

Why did Dreher even feel the need to post this drivel?

Blogger Longtime Lurker July 21, 2019 12:47 PM  

Which begs the obvious question: What's David French's excuse?

Blogger binks webelf July 21, 2019 12:48 PM  

The local elementary school here bought into the dysfunctional "bully-free" BS, which amounted to kids getting bullied, then blamed alongside the bullies if they dared defend themselves.

One day, the older twin (scrawny but fierce) literally got in trouble for stopping a larger boy picking on a girl. TO THE OFFICE!!

Mom & Dad backed up the boy. We also took two actions: I spoke to the principal and said that if they were in the right, I'd defend them all the way to lawyers, as needed; if wrong, they had to take their punishment. Next, we enrolled them in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and informed said principal that they had a right to protect themselves if attacked. The bullying (and the co-punishing) stopped almost at once.

If you have a timid child or grandchild, get them into boxing or a fighting/ sparring martial art, along with other team sports. Well worth the time & investment.

They will not turn into brutal "Karate Experts", but should develop strength, skill, and a less fearful maturity. Plus, you give them a greater chance of maturing into a sheepdog who helps their neighbour, rather than a bleating sheep who stands by and does nothing, calling for Mommy or Daddy to fix everything.

Dreher needs to mature, even now in his fifties. Go shoot guns. Get into a good dojo or boxing club. Hang around with more manly men, who can bloody each other's noses, but be drinking a friendly beer 20 minutes later. And learn the PROPER lesson from that incident he so lovingly resents and obsesses over, even all these years later.

Blogger John Bradley July 21, 2019 12:51 PM  

Fat omega raised by a single mom here. Was occasionally bullied in my youth; never fought back against any of the bastards, to my current regret. While I was younger (skipped a grade) and lower-T than my tormentors, I *did* outweigh them, and could have inflicted enough damage that they'd have left me alone thereafter.

Wish the kicked-out dad or non-existent older brother had been around to tell me that at the time.

Blogger Bellomy July 21, 2019 1:05 PM  

I'd tell a war story but who doesn't have them as a kid? The point is to fight back.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 21, 2019 1:06 PM  

Is he trying to out-Wesley Wil Wheaton with this stuff?

Blogger Harambe July 21, 2019 1:11 PM  

I am amazed at the high number and concentration of alphas who read VP.

Blogger Ingemar July 21, 2019 1:13 PM  

@John Bradley

You are not cursed to relive your childhood failures forever. When I was in grade school I was as wimpy as Dreher. As an adult I got sucker punched by an a-hole who was drunk or tweaking. After I struck him thrice he suddenly became incredibly lucid and left me alone.

Blogger Jab Burrwalky July 21, 2019 1:15 PM  

Wow... He's worried about what Trump supporters would do to dissenters? Does this guy have any frikkin clue what MS13 does to dissenters? What socialists do to dissenters? What a frikkin cuck.

Blogger Ann July 21, 2019 1:17 PM  

@exfarmkid: Because he'd just been to Auschwitz.

Blogger doctrev July 21, 2019 1:27 PM  

Jab Burrwalky, Rod Dreher hates the President and American nationalists more generally. Of course he'd worry about his well-deserved reward, either from right or left.

The poor fool should really hole up in an Italian monastery, or more likely a Russian one. Do the Eastern Orthodox even maintain a monastic system? I'd look it up, but I don't really care. He needs a place for his family, so the monastery is out, but where a "transphobe" several degrees of cuck worse than Civic Nationalist is going to go, I have no idea.

Blogger DonReynolds July 21, 2019 1:33 PM  

When I was in school, football was my passion. But you cannot play football year-round because it is a seasonal sport. To stay active in athletics, you have to get involved in other seasonal sports. If they were really tall, they might go out for basketball and still have time to play baseball/softball in the spring. If they were good runners (or really overweight) they might run track (or throw shot). Some even played tennis, like I did my senior year. Some even lift weights and get even more muscle-bound. But the aggressive linebacker or safety often ended up in boxing or wrestling. My Dad was a boxer (who never played football), so he encouraged me in this direction.

In boxing, you win some and you lose some. So I was always suspicious of those boxers who claimed they never lost a fight. I have been beat before and there was no shame in it. You do your best and wait for the bell to ring. Over and done in just a few minutes. The rest of the time, you train until you barf, and spar when you can. It is called "practice" but nobody is practicing.

Blogger Jack Amok July 21, 2019 1:34 PM  

If I had to pick one single event that formed my outlook on the world...

What sort of emotional cripple allows a single event to define their world-view? (well, we know, a Gamma, but still). Your world-view is supposed to be the result of observation and learning, the sum total of responses to many single events. My world view today is considerably different than it was in 2006, but then we've been through a lot since then, haven't we? Dreher's is the same as it was in 1981? Never going to grow up indeed.

And when I think of the two moms who stepped over him to get out of the room, I wonder just how annoying little Rodney had already been on that trip.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 21, 2019 1:39 PM  

The comments are moderated but I left a one sentence reminder that you are right and he is a prime example of gamma.

Anyway your hierarchy work is gold, and that series done by another man is a valuable example of its usefulness.

It is quite satisfactory to become a consistent Delta versus any bouts of gamma, life is good.

Blogger RedJack July 21, 2019 1:48 PM  

I was the target for some abuse in school. My Mom told me to "Be the bigger person!" and not fight back. My Dad and Grandfather told me "Know how to control yourself, and don't kill them!" They had see me work with cattle, and knew that if I tried to do that to a kid my own age it would hurt them.

Till one day I had enough. Picked up the bully and threw him down like I was going to castrate a hog. His Dad (The football coach and a friend of my Dad's) saw me reaching out with my right hand for where the cutting knife would be.

Lost a lot of fights, but few would attack twice. One guy always did, but he fought everyone and thought it was fun. Later became a recon Marine. He taught me that while you can never beat the biggest guy, you can make him start counting fingers when he was done.

Looking back I can appreciate why Dad was worried I would hurt someone, but I told my kids that while they should never strike first, always go to end the fight. So far, they have done ok.

Blogger MATT July 21, 2019 1:53 PM  

I regret not hurting a lot of people as a kid. I should have launched my younger brother every day of his pansy ass life, beaten the shit out of a wannabe bully, etc. Parents tell their strong kids to be careful, and its nonsense. It teaches them to live in their heads instead of living in the moment. I remember I was robbed once by some older teenagers, might have been early 20s, when I was 12. I was already big enough I could have knocked them on their asses, but was frozen with fear. Many regrets.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction July 21, 2019 1:56 PM  

I think your absolutely right in your assessment. Once when I operated under a similar mindset with predictable consequences; eventually you run into someone who doesn’t care.

It seems Dreher and I took away very different lessons from the experience of being bullied in front of authorities.

Blogger tweell July 21, 2019 2:02 PM  

I was a big kid growing up, but that didn't keep me from being bullied. Dad was disappointed in me for a long time. Eventually I realized that it wasn't getting any better, and fought back. Unfortunately I had built up lots of hate, and Dad had sent me to various martial arts classes. That boy went into a wheelchair with extensive brain damage.

It took me a while to be able to stand up for myself again. The trick is to stop the bullying when it starts, and before I build up emotional pressure.

I feel sorry for Dreher, in a way. Would not trust the weasel, though.

Blogger Paul, Dammit! July 21, 2019 2:04 PM  

One other aspect that doesn't get much attention is that boys will often enough meet their lifelong best friends starting with a fistfight. That is how we're programmed, also. A coward forfeits the opportunity to be respected, but also he forfeits the right to fellowship, as well. You can't respect a man who has no self-respect, and you certainly can't befriend them. Had young Rod attacked the boys who were fooling with him, he would have gotten knocked around, but he wouldn't have been injured badly, and he may have befriended them in the aftermath, instead of being a sad, middle-aged gamma soy enthusiast. Just as you can judge a man by the company he keeps, you can also judge a man who can't make friends of his peers.

Blogger HouellebecqGurl July 21, 2019 2:30 PM  

When I was a little girl, I was really little. When I started 1st grade I weighed 26 lbs & my mother sent me off on a school bus filed with large, backwood redneck high schoolers.
I was teased & bullied unmercifully.
When 2nd grade rolled around, they stopped messing with me as much because I became the biter. By 4th grade, my parents bought me steel toed cowboy boots and by 7th grade, I carried a switchblade.
I still got my a$$ kicked on occasion, (in 9th grade, a group of senior girls ripped my earrings through my earlobes), and in 11th grade, I got jumped in the parking lot by five girls chasing me with glass Coke bottles. It ended with me hopping in my cousin's unlocked car, and fighting only one girl who managed to climb halfway in with me. She was beating me with the bottle, I managed to finally get to my knife and cut her. I got kicked out of the county school system & was forced into private school, but my reputation preceded me, and no one messed with me, again.
I still maintain a badass rep in my hometown & I was just a little girl.
Imagine how different Dreher would be now if he got his ass kicked sometimes and won sometimes, as a kid.
Vox is totally right,you have to fight back. Teach your kids this. They'll thank you later.
Besides, public school is horrible, I consider it a badge of honor to have been booted.

Blogger MichaelJMaier July 21, 2019 2:31 PM  

I remember being really confused at the appeal of "Crunchy Con".

I have had my own issues in life. But I do not wear my weaknesses or deficiencies as a badge of honour. Nor think that they should be used to guide my life's policies.

For all its Gamma-isms, I always liked Garion in first book of THE BELGARDIAD. Being approached by a bully, they talked, he read things and then he punched the dude first after hearing "I can thrash you if you want."

"I didn't hit you!"
"You were going to."

Blogger JAG July 21, 2019 2:38 PM  

I took boxing in college. We started off with over 30 guys in the class. When it was time for the final, in this case a three round amateur match, we had 8 guys left.

Most guys, even the ones who bully, can't take a punch. It used to be a weekly occurrence - guy is doing fine, then gets his ass beat in sparring, typically a busted lip or bloody nose, then never seen again. It was quite an eye opening experience.

Now, I try to imagine a guy like Dreher in that boxing class.

Blogger Noah B. July 21, 2019 2:40 PM  

What Dreher describes sounds more like normal teenage scuffling, which is probably why the adults didn't intervene and the girls thought it was funny. This was likely Dreher's last opportunity to win some respect from that group, which he could have done by fighting back or yelling something funny like, "Stop trying to rape me you faggots!" Had he done that they probably would have pulled his pants off and continued to try humiliate him but Dreher's self respect would have been intact and that group would have begun to respect him just a little. The part of the story that he almost certainly omitted was that he began sobbing hysterically, at which point the group lost interest in bullying him because they all knew at that moment that they wanted nothing more to do with Dreher.

Blogger Robert Schecter July 21, 2019 2:45 PM  

Physiognomy is real

Blogger SebastianX1/9 July 21, 2019 2:46 PM  

"and the girls who stood on the hotel room beds jumping up and down, squealing and egging them on...the shock waves of that have reverberated throughout my life."

Oh dear, for a minute there I thought I was reading a HuffPost piece on growing up trans.

Blogger Michael S. July 21, 2019 2:49 PM  

Just read the Rod Dreher's article.
1) Mr. Dreher blames the corruption in the Catholic Church on the Bishops. He fails to mention that the corruption was grounded in the dominance of homosexuals in the clergy protecting other homosexuals.
2) Rod Dreher, like so many other false conservatives, tries to create a false equivalency. Trump's criticisms are NOTHING compared to the demonic language that is spewed out of the maws of MSNBC, CNN, and other MSM.

One wonders (not really) if this article would have been written if Hilary Clinton would have won. Why does he not describe the rantings on MSNBC, CNN etc. as "demonic"?

To be fair, there is much to commend in his article but the false equivalency is just too much.

Finally: No Mr. Dreher, Pope John Paul II was NOT successful because he created a "communion" in Poland. He stood up against the atheistic secular government that was crushing the Polish people. Those Polish millions DID NOT leave the Catholic Church even though many bishops were corrupt and in collusion with the Communists.

God bless, Michael (Catholic)

Blogger sammibandit July 21, 2019 2:58 PM  

This is a really cool story.

Blogger Dave July 21, 2019 3:01 PM  

Harambe wrote:I am amazed at the high number and concentration of alphas who read VP.

Nah man, naturally we're all sigmas.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume July 21, 2019 3:02 PM  

Paul, Dammit! wrote:One other aspect that doesn't get much attention is that boys will often enough meet their lifelong best friends starting with a fistfight. That is how we're programmed, also. A coward forfeits the opportunity to be respected, but also he forfeits the right to fellowship, as well. You can't respect a man who has no self-respect, and you certainly can't befriend them. Had young Rod attacked the boys who were fooling with him, he would have gotten knocked around, but he wouldn't have been injured badly, and he may have befriended them in the aftermath, instead of being a sad, middle-aged gamma soy enthusiast. Just as you can judge a man by the company he keeps, you can also judge a man who can't make friends of his peers.



This can't be emphasized enough.

The worst fight I ever took part in would be properly classed as 'knock down, drag out'. We were 12 years old. There was none of the pushing and pulling of t-shirts. It was punches and kicks and there was blood. I got a wicked gash on my forehead from his tooth when I headbutted him. I needed stitches. He lost a tooth. A neighbor down the street, an old war vet, had to pull us apart because our mothers were terrified when they heard the commotion.

And we have been best friends since that day. We are godfathers to each others children. We were the best man at each others weddings. And we still laugh and kid about that fight.

It wasn't the single most formative experience like that pussy Dreher's. But it was the foundation of a fantastic friendship. That guy became a brother to me.

Cowards always miss out on the best that life has to offer.

Blogger RedJack July 21, 2019 3:02 PM  

Paul, Dammit! So True! Two of my best friends become such because we beat the crap out of each other. One is the only guy I can confirm I gave a serious concussion to. The other broke a bat on me (small bat, we were about 10) and I grabbed both pieces and chased him down. Coach was laughing so hard he could barely stop us!

God, I haven't thought of that in years. I am going to call up those two idiots and laugh about old times.

Blogger RedJack July 21, 2019 3:03 PM  

Dave,

A Delta here. Moving to beta maybe. Never an alpha. Never a sig. I build the team, but the team isn't me.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer July 21, 2019 3:03 PM  

Of course Dreher's a pussy and the "Benedict Option" reflects that entirely, despite being about as secure and useful as a monastery in Pakistan.

I had the same reaction when I read about the "Benedict Option." They are already coming for you and your children. You're not going to be allowed to opt out.

Blogger Argus Bacchus July 21, 2019 3:06 PM  

Public schools are contributing to the pussification of boys.

I've taught middle school for well over 20 years.The two districts I've worked for had a policy where any student who was involved in a fight was suspended, regardless of the circumstances. They really do expect a kid to run, hide, tell a teacher, beg for mercy, or do ANYTHING but physically defend themselves.

So, if a student had no choice but to fight back, they'd be suspended as well, even if it was for a shorter period of time than the kid who "started it."


I have repeatedly warned administrators for several years that one day they are going to suspend the kid of a parent who does not give two craps about their equalist dogturd and they are going to bring the mother of all lawsuits against the school and/or district. Most parents don't have the inclination or the time to dispute the policy even if they wanted to, so it mostly, but not always, goes unchallenged. When a parent does have the cajones to fight back, they usually see how quickly admin abandons on their precious equalism.

At the beginning of each school year, I tell my students and their parents that I will take their side in any such dispute, and that they have a right to stand their ground and respond with force if attacked. If the aggressor gets his ass handed to him, well, that's just too damn bad.

Admin is very aware of my attitude and I do not hide it. There's no need to do so. They are too busy being terrified that I might resign.

A healthy percentage of principals and other admin are gutless cowards who couldn't stand the heat in the classroom anyhow, so it's no surprise that they have no spine. Many of them are just full-on degenerates.

Blogger MichaelJMaier July 21, 2019 3:15 PM  

"A healthy percentage of principals and other admin are gutless cowards who couldn't stand the heat in the classroom anyhow, so it's no surprise that they have no spine. Many of them are just full-on degenerates."

They can't stand up to the kids, how will they ever stand up to a parent?

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators July 21, 2019 3:15 PM  

Do nothing patiently accept the abuse and eventually they'll realize that you're not worth it and move on.

I did that in middle school and high school and it had a 100% success rate.

Blogger sammibandit July 21, 2019 3:20 PM  

@HouellebecqGurl that was a really cool story. I like girl scrappers a lot.

I was about your size as well. I had an added handicap unseen of being handicapped the first 18 months of life and as a result I was a late bloomer for virtually every thing in a girl's life.

I regret it now but I used to bash gay bashers. All of the fights I was in that weren't at punk shows were because someone was bashing a pansy friend of mine. People really worked hard not to make me mad. One of my favourite tactics was to follow the basher home three times. On the third day I would beat them up outside their home. In junior high the pansies could defend themselves so I rarely had to beat people up. One of the bashers is my buddy now because he KO'd me one day, and I KO'd him the next day.

When I got into high school and started going to punk shows I used to have problems with dudes groping me. The mix of alcohol and speed I used to take meant I didn't feel pain or fear so I used to sort those problems out pretty quick. Back when I was making my bones in that scene punk girls used to fight a lot. They didn't believe in crying after it was all said and done, better to sort it out in front of others so you had a reputation of not putting up with guff. I never had a problem in school itself because I hung out with goths and riverheads and normies were scared of us anyway.

The last time I almost got in a fight was at a transit station. I got off the bus and saw an old lady looking super concerned and she pointed her eyes at a bus shelter with a 20-something and a 9 year old girl. The girl was red in the face and sobbing. Then I saw the older one smack the girl and call her an asshole. I was pinged!

I made a beeline to the older one and demanded to know if she felt like picking on someone her own size. She replied that it's not my business to which I rejoined that it is if I see it. The little girl burst into tears and the older one said see, you made her cry. The younger one said, no you made me cry because you hit me. The little girl was clearly relieved someone saw what happened and said no! They ended up leaving after the older one called /her/ mom complaining I wanted to beat her. Duh. Point made. If I didn't see the senior lady pointing her eyes at them I doubt I would have thought much of it. Smart lady to wait for someone younger to confront the beast.

These lessons you learn in school carry into your adult life. If you can defend yourself you can defend smaller people and let them know that so long as you're around you have their back.

Blogger camcleat July 21, 2019 3:24 PM  

furor kek tonicus ( all aboard the Askren hype train ) wrote:and you've done what to fight your school system over their bullshit policies?

Homeschooled.

Blogger sammibandit July 21, 2019 3:35 PM  

One of the pansies I used to defend took on the principal in junior high when he was threatened with suspension. He was bullied on a public bus one afternoon and kicked the head bully in the head. Since he was a pansy it was a can-can kick straight up. Anyway, principal caught wind and wanted to suspend him. The pansy said either you let me go to class unimpeded or I sue you for letting a gay kid get bullied and punishing the gay kid for defending himself. He was never bullied again. Principal was now scared of him.

Blogger ADS July 21, 2019 3:38 PM  

I have a scar on my face to this day from a fight with a boy on my block in second grade. My best friends in school started out as bullies or just antagonists and after we swapped punches there was no more issue. Men were made to fight just as women were made to rear children. Deny men the opportunity to experience fighting and you end up with a dysfunctional non-man male equivalent to the childless cat lady spinster.

If your son earns suspension for fighting, let him spend the 10 days off like Caesar on a Triumph.

Blogger James Dixon July 21, 2019 3:40 PM  

> I am amazed at the high number and concentration of alphas who read VP.

You don't have to be an alpha to know you have to fight back against bullies.

Blogger Lance E July 21, 2019 3:41 PM  

That's an impressive number of red pills all crammed into a single anecdote:

1. Adult women unable to, and probably disinterested in, asserting authority over teenage boys. Instead, actively assisting or initiating LYHF style shit tests.

2. High school girls excited by boys showing physical dominance, and clearly being DTF (not stated, but definitely happened).

3. The effectiveness of bullying and intimidation for weeding out effeminate losers, and the necessity of doing so for maintaining a healthy dynamic between normal boys and girls.

When you think about it, it's kind of amazing how 37 years later, Rod has still learned nothing from the experience.

Blogger Capital6 July 21, 2019 3:42 PM  

Never really bullied because people thought I would Columbine the place. Only "bullies" I can remember seemed more like they were messing with me to get me out of my shell. Even then, it was only light verbal prodding. Became friends with a few of them as well. Don't have any animosity.

Experience suggests that guys have a sixth sense for when one of their own isn't doing so well and then try to help them out. I'm grateful for those "bullies" who were trying to get me to open up.

There is definitely a progression to Dreher's tale. You aren't pinned down at the onset. He had to have failed many, many times previously. He probably failed the verbal jousting and teasing guys do with each other.

Is there a specific point where it goes from trying to help someone out to bullying someone because it's fun and the bullied's reaction is great?

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( all aboard the Askren hype train ) July 21, 2019 3:57 PM  

61. camcleat July 21, 2019 3:24 PM
Homeschooled.



irrelevant. Verne has asserted that he is keeping his children in this school.

and is doing no more to correct the situation than Dreher's chaperones stepping over him on their way out of the room.

and let's be clear: it's not the bullying that is the problem, per se.

it's the institutional protection of the bullies and the punishment of the victims. which this father is not only permitting, he is forcing his sons into it.

it is the responsibility of the sons to defend themselves against their class mates.

it is the responsibility of the parents to defend their children against corrupt teachers and admins.

Blogger liberranter July 21, 2019 4:31 PM  

Arguably more pathetic, cucked, and useless than Dreher himself are the losers who are of sufficient number to give him an audience and make him prominent. It simply defies all logic that this assclown gets print in "respected" media outlets, however cuckservative they may be. Even by those rock-bottom standards Dreher is beneath substandard.

Blogger billo July 21, 2019 4:31 PM  

This is where having a father becomes important. I remember the first fight I got into when I was a little kid. I came home all bloody, and my mother hit the roof. My father took me aside and asked me two questions:

1) Are you OK?
2) Did you win?

I said "yes" to both. He said. "Good. Don't do it again. But when you do, never get in a fight unless you are willing to do whatever it takes to win. And once you start, never stop."

The second thing my father told me was years later, after I had been in a life-threatening situation. He pointed out to me that, as a Christian, I was already dead to the world, not of this world, and thus had nothing to lose by dying. My father, who took a bullet in the head in WWII, had paid a high price on more than one occasion, and he made sure I knew that he thought it was worth it.

Many years later, I read the same idea in Hakagure, where Yamamoto Tsunetomo writes "Every day without fail one should consider himself as dead."

That doesn't mean that one does not enjoy life. It means that if you are not willing to lose something, it owns you, you do not own it. There are some things that I have given myself to, and they do own me. My Christ, my wife. And there are plenty of contests where I'm not willing to wager everything for a given return. I've backed down from plenty of fights, physical and otherwise. But I also know that once I get into one, I've already made the decision about how far I'm willing to go.

A number of people have told me that I am a scary person when I get angry. But it's not because I'm so huge or strong or athletic. I think it's because I telegraph that once I start, I don't have limits, and I don't bluff.

I think that there comes a time in everybody's life where they have to decide what they own and what owns them. And a lot of paths are decided at that point.

Blogger VD July 21, 2019 4:33 PM  

and is doing no more to correct the situation than Dreher's chaperones stepping over him on their way out of the room.

Not your business. Stay out of it.

Blogger Don't Call Me Len July 21, 2019 5:03 PM  

It's not very difficult to spot those who are still not over never getting picked for kickball, even without open admissions like Dreher's.

What sort of "man" so publicly wallows in his own helplessness and victimhood? I almost expected to read "and that's why I've decided to finally embrace my true self as Rhododendron Love Flower and start a children's reading tour of public libraries."



Blogger Daniel July 21, 2019 5:08 PM  

Alphas fight and usually win.
Bravos fight and often win, usually on behalf of their alpha or evening things for an outnumbered Delta. Deltas fight and lose and sometimes refight the same guy and often rally to other Deltas, Bravos and Alphas if necessary.

Gamma doesn't fight. He doesn't want anyone to fight for him, he wants his invisible subjects to fight instead of him.

Look, when a gamma thinks he understands good mothering better than an actual mother, he's beyond hope.

Why would anyonefight for him, especially good mothers?

If Dreher can answer why he didn't stand up for himself back then, he will finally understand why no one else will now.

Blogger bodenlose Schweinerei July 21, 2019 5:09 PM  

Man, that comment section is full of of even bigger gaping pussies than Dreher. The highest rated comment is an apologia for Ilhan Omar.

Blogger VFM #7634 July 21, 2019 5:19 PM  

Just read the Rod Dreher's article.
1) Mr. Dreher blames the corruption in the Catholic Church on the Bishops. He fails to mention that the corruption was grounded in the dominance of homosexuals in the clergy protecting other homosexuals.


@50 Michael S.
It was the postmodernist Vatican II types -- heretics who stayed in the Church to subvert it -- behind the faggotry problem. Of course, they were usually gay as well. Paul VI was caught in flagrante delicto in Milan with a male prostitute.

Blogger Nate73 July 21, 2019 5:27 PM  

Obligatory Wil Wheaton reference from the weekend:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/sdcc-2019-cory-booker-wesley-crusher

Blogger tublecane July 21, 2019 5:34 PM  

I have observed a cat toy with a mouse. The poor, bloody creature still gasping for air. Its predator batting the body back and forth for no practical reason.

It is nothing like junior high tomfoolery.

Blogger DonReynolds July 21, 2019 5:54 PM  

JAG wrote:I took boxing in college. We started off with over 30 guys in the class. When it was time for the final, in this case a three round amateur match, we had 8 guys left.

Most guys, even the ones who bully, can't take a punch. It used to be a weekly occurrence - guy is doing fine, then gets his ass beat in sparring, typically a busted lip or bloody nose, then never seen again. It was quite an eye opening experience.

Now, I try to imagine a guy like Dreher in that boxing class.


You made me laugh.
I have noticed that anyone who does not like getting hit will naturally start to move their clay feet, and block, and weave, and duck. They may not get around to hitting much, but they know they don't like getting smacked in the face. Ha Ha.

@53 Emmett Fitz-Hume
"And we have been best friends since that day. We are godfathers to each others children. We were the best man at each others weddings. And we still laugh and kid about that fight."

@54 RedJack
"Paul, Dammit! So True! Two of my best friends become such because we beat the crap out of each other."

You guys might be Irish. After a good scuffle, we make the best of friends, even if you win. Ha Ha.

Blogger tublecane July 21, 2019 5:54 PM  

@11- Those old racists sound like they care more about black people than the Drehers of the world. Blacks were objectively better off before the civil rights era. Now they are a disaster.

Second-class citizenship or "white girl bleed a lot." That's our choice.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 5:54 PM  

Vox, you're right that he should have stood up for himself but not all boys have the confidence to do that. I think it can have an awful lot to do with what male role models you have at a young age. -I had difficulty dealing with bullies when I was little because my father wasn't in the country and my mother had shacked up with an extremely violent narcissist who used to frighten me into having panic attacks (which were misdiagnosed as asthma).
I was never taught to stand up to bullies; my SJW mother, a social worker, thought it was better to run away and never, ever fight, under any circumstances.
When I went to live with my dad, I started doing martial arts and went on to play rugby league and ice hockey, as well as getting into powerlifting as an adult, which helped a lot. However, I can certainly understand how a boy who has never been taught to be a man, doesn't know how to, well, be a man.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 5:55 PM  

And, apologies for the long screed.

Blogger VD July 21, 2019 6:05 PM  

Vox, you're right that he should have stood up for himself but not all boys have the confidence to do that.

That's why we call them "cowards". In many, though not all cases, they won't stand up for themselves even if they are told to do so.

Regardless, no one cares what the reason for their cowardice is. All people have to go by is the observed behavior.

Blogger Garuna July 21, 2019 6:06 PM  

I was a bully and a thug in school. Zero regrets. People who get bullied usually deserve it. Forget about fighting back, the bullied often become subservient when you beat them up. Just contemptible.

As for the other way round, when I was in kindergarten some older kids tried to bully my friends and take my football. I jumped on one of them and kept punching until they FO'd. Same for whenever I moved to a new country and the kids there tried to establish dominance over me. Though in these cases, I usually ended up befriending them after beating them up.

I literally cannot relate to anyone who would not fight back. Are people like that even human?

Blogger Robert Browning July 21, 2019 6:15 PM  

Dehrer deserved it then and he deserves it now. He doesn't have any empathy for the pain and torment of the innocent Christ. He can't even relate to it. How this thing can call himself Christian is beyond me.

Blogger Garuna July 21, 2019 6:16 PM  

Man, that comment section is full of of even bigger gaping pussies than Dreher. The highest rated comment is an apologia for Ilhan Omar.

Cuckservatives should never, ever be treated with respect. They should be bullycided whenever and wherever they are encountered. That is all they understand.

This is why it is such a mistake to call them "conservabros" as some idiots are doing now. Firstly, there is nothing "bro" about them. And secondly, it is just a framing mistake to make them out to be the oppressors of underdog nationalists. Don't play the underdog to a cuckservative. They just enjoy it. Bullycide.

Blogger Capital6 July 21, 2019 6:21 PM  

God Emperor Memes, you're half right.

Confidence plays a part when the action is voluntary and you choose to respond. It's different when facing an existential threat. Then, it's likely automatic.

Someone swinging at you in gym class is different than someone telling you to fight him after school by the flagpole.

Blogger Lovekraft July 21, 2019 6:38 PM  

So how would he use this experience in teaching young people going through the same thing, since he never acquired the skill of moving on?

Seems the only advice he would give would be to turn some cheeks.

He really wants the power to be able to control this type of situation, which is chilling

Blogger kurt9 July 21, 2019 6:41 PM  

Reading Dreher has always left me with the impression that he is a ninny, which is probably why I do not take him seriously.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 6:56 PM  

Yes, I agree with that.

Blogger matveidaniilovich July 21, 2019 7:03 PM  

He didn't even get pantsed. It was a near-pantsing. He's crying over nothing.

Blogger R Devere July 21, 2019 7:08 PM  

MATT wrote:Cats beat the shit out of dogs

Yeah, sure. Guess that's why Paul Krugman surrounds himself with cats.

Was bullied by a handful of bigger, dumber yokels growing up. Had to outsmart 'em to avoid double-teams! Damn! They were frustrated, when my situational awareness trumped their STOOPID.

Then, I took up wrestling as my HS sport. Word got around that I was "dumb enough" to wrestle up 20 lbs. over my rather light weight class. Never saw those dumb yokels looking for me anymore!

I presume everyone here has seen Dreher's photo? It's in the dictionary under "wimp" "pussy"and "cuck!

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 7:09 PM  

"People who get bullied usually deserve it."

Sometimes, yes. "Usually"? I'm not so sure. Most of the bullying I've witnessed done to other people (and even the casual bullying I did as a teenager) wasn't deserved.

Blogger matveidaniilovich July 21, 2019 7:10 PM  

Someone remarked,"Vox, what kind of school did you go to!?" Was thinking the same thing!

Brought back memories of me choking a kid on the ground who was older than me by 2 grades. He had been teasing me & ripped out some of my hair, which sent me into a berserk rage.

On the flip side, in 3rd grade I actually got KO'ed on the playground for messing with the wrong hombre. Got a black eye, but I deserved it.

Bet you money that Dreher has never been punched in the face.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 7:28 PM  

...and now that I think about it, one source of pain for SJW's is the memory of being bullied and the self-loathing that goes along with knowing they didnt stand up for themselves.
That's why we need to teach boys to stand up for themselves and for others.
Thanks, Vox.

Blogger MrCombustion July 21, 2019 7:29 PM  

Even the extract went on far too long, let alone the full article, but the penny dropped when Rod obliquely indicated that the authority figures he called out to for help were women. In the four decade since he still hasn't mined his experience for the lessons he should have learned. The human brain which evolved did so by reflecting on physical trauma which might have caused death to figure out (a) what was the wrong decision which nearly killed it, (b) what should it have done in those circumstances and ideally (c) test the theory in practice. This is still true in any incident which upends the way one thinks the world works and the process begins with accepting that one has made the wrong decision or, in this case, decisions leading up to the even and misplacing trust is often one of those decisions. Over the past forty years he has stuck with the idea that the moms did the wrong thing by not being authoritarian with teenage boys. He should accept he made the wrong decision back then and even now move on to the next stages (of figuring out what he should have done, viz. pushing back all by himself, and practiced that in some capacity). He would then find that his brain can let go and move on, even if the memory of it remains, like a B&W silent movie rather than being the surround sound technicolor version still in his mind, forever nagging at him to do the right thing.

Blogger Jack (LJCSOGHMOMAS) July 21, 2019 7:49 PM  

I used to read Dreher for a while because I was interested in his conversion to Orthodoxy. Then I noticed that he spends more time bashing the Catholic Church than he does promoting Orthodoxy. Then I noticed his severe case of cuckface when he posted a photo of himself. (Actually, my first thought was that Ricky Schroeder from Silver Spoons and NYPD Blue has apparently gone on to become a cuckservative writer.)

TAC was founded by Pat Buchanan. Most of their writers are a disgrace to his legacy and don't have the balls or the erudition to say what he's said in his books and columns.

Blogger nidus of inflection July 21, 2019 7:49 PM  

rather than use the authority they had [...], they walked away. No doubt because they wanted to stay in good with the cool kids. These were the kind of moms who wanted to be friends with their teenagers, not authorities.

Hey, Rod! Newsflash: The moms hated you, too.

because no one ever took me on twice.

That's wisdom.

Do the Eastern Orthodox even maintain a monastic system?

Yes, but monasteries are not dumping grounds for the refuse of the SSH. You can't simply become a monk. It's not just a convenient escape from society. There's a period of mutual evaluation, during which the aspirant and monks each determine if they are a good fit. Remember, these monks have to live with their decision in an isolated community for the rest of their lives. I meet our monks several times a year. They may be quiet and mild, but they are serious men.

If a monk-to-be gets past the initial screening, he typically serves as a laborer for maybe a year or so. That year of labor would bring remaining issues to the surface. Rod would most likely not make the cut.

Blogger Kevin S. Van Horn July 21, 2019 8:09 PM  

How do you know that Dreher didn't fight back as best he could?

I was bullied incessantly starting when I was 7 or 8. I always fought back the best I could. I never submitted. When I was 9 two older boys demanded I hand over the ice cream I had just bought; I went home leaving a trail of blood behind me, but they didn't get my ice cream.

And when I was 11 I faced a situation similar to Dreher's: pinned to the ground by bullies intent on humiliating me. They did, in fact, get my pants off. And there was not a goddamned thing I could do. There were too many of them, and they were all older and bigger than me. Try getting off a punch when each arm is immobilized by someone substantially larger than you using their full strength and weight to pin it in place.

Dreher faced 8 opponents. That's one for each limb, with four left over. Perhaps, if he had been an *exceptionally* good fighter, he could have stopped them. Perhaps.

Blogger Brian O'Brien July 21, 2019 8:14 PM  

This is a great post, in many ways. It's a philosophy to live by.

Blogger M.S. July 21, 2019 8:17 PM  

Boys who are Introverts, intellectually gifted, highly sensitive, etc. are the ones who should receive the most encouragement to go into martial arts, first of all because they have the potential to be some of the best fighters of all when trained properly, giftedness and whatnot, second of all because this personality temperament is widely disdained in American culture and kids who have it are more likely to get bullied in the first place, so they've got to be more ready than most to fight back. It's extremely disappointing that Dreher didn't take advantage of that experience and learn self-defense, it would have helped him so much.

Blogger Kevin S. Van Horn July 21, 2019 8:17 PM  

Contemptible coward Garuna writes,

"I was a bully and a thug in school. Zero regrets."

And he hides behind a pseudonym and a profile with no identifying information whatsoever.

Blogger Garuna July 21, 2019 8:19 PM  

I was bullied incessantly starting when I was 7 or 8.

Because you deserved it.

Blogger VD July 21, 2019 8:25 PM  

How do you know that Dreher didn't fight back as best he could?

Because he's Rod Dreher.

Contemptible coward Garuna writes

You were obviously bullied because you're obnoxious, even to complete strangers on the Internet. But at least you fought back. Good for you.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 21, 2019 8:29 PM  

I grew up with a single mother in small trailor park. My father was a gamma / omega (I think). He didn't mind not washing and was a hippie, luckily (for him) he made a fat 6 at generous motors.

So, I never had a good male role model.

I remember a bunch of kids surrounded me one snowy morning (Michigan). Similar to those kids I'm sure, and they were probably just out to have some fun. Anyway, I didn't know them and they probably came into the trailer park to pick on some little kid. Which happened to be me. So, the one kid grabs my hat, starts running backwards as I chase him. He tossed the hat over my head to his mate. He's where I'm supposed to turn around while this repeats. He just stood there smiling. I was generally good natured, but fighting in the trailer park was pretty common. I punched him in the face. I was quite a bit smaller so he just looked shocked and said "I don't have your hat". I said keep it or something. Jumped on him, pulling him down, all while punching him in his face.

They pulled me off him and said leave him (me) alone. And left. Never saw them again that I know of. I'd rather be beat up then take shit from some scrubs.

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators July 21, 2019 8:31 PM  

Testosterone suppression increases the IQ of prepubescent children. Because testosterone fixes brain lateralization while low testosterone allows for more complex neurological networks to form. This is why monks in the Middle Ages often castrated precocious scholars.

The increase in the sociosexual hierarchy you gain being a jock is just not worth it.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 8:38 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rhys July 21, 2019 8:38 PM  

The group I hung out with in highschool might have been bullied had we not been so aggressive and depraved towards all the other students. I remember us dumping urine on people, leaving coke-urine bottles in places where the cool kids would usually steal them, throwing rocks at people, pointing and laughing at people for no reason just to see if we could embarrass them, and smashing and burning stuff with lighters and baseball bats on our lunch breaks. All of this was done purely for our own enjoyment.

We never got picked on by anybody, and none of us were huge or physically imposing either. There will always be someone in the group who won't fight back and bullies only target these people because they're pathetic. If they pick on you, it's imperative to fight back, though based on my experiences, it's a lot better to be crazy fucker, because then they'll stay far, far away from you.

Blogger Cloudbuster July 21, 2019 8:39 PM  

The comments to that article are filled with leftists, showing who Dreher's real audience is.

Blogger Cloudbuster July 21, 2019 8:43 PM  

Rhys wrote:The group I hung out with in highschool might have been bullied had we not been so aggressive and depraved towards all the other students. I remember us dumping urine on people, leaving coke-urine bottles in places where the cool kids would usually steal them, throwing rocks at people, pointing and laughing at people for no reason just to see if we could embarrass them, and smashing and burning stuff with lighters and baseball bats on our lunch breaks. All of this was done purely for our own enjoyment.

Did you ever ask yourself, "Are we the baddies?"

https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU

Blogger Dave July 21, 2019 8:49 PM  

Caleo wrote:What's worse is that Rod regularly references this single defining moment of his youth as the reason for his political positions today. I've read him on and off for a few years, and this one keeps coming back up.

He'd shrivel up even more inside if he knew all of the individuals that were there just saw it as boys being rowdy and they immediately forgot all about it as soon as it happened and never gave it a second thought all these years later.

Blogger James Dixon July 21, 2019 9:03 PM  

> How do you know that Dreher didn't fight back as best he could?

Because he doesn't say he did. Yes, it's that simple.

> Try getting off a punch when each arm is immobilized by someone substantially larger than you using their full strength and weight to pin it in place.

You have these things called teeth. Most of the time they forget that. Remember what I said about there being no such thing as a fair fight? See how long they hold on to that arm when a piece of theirs is missing.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( all aboard the Askren hype train ) July 21, 2019 9:06 PM  

70. VD July 21, 2019 4:33 PM
Not your business. Stay out of it.


was it MY business? no.

but it WAS the business of those who had volunteered to CHAPERONE the group.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/chaperone
any adult present in order to maintain order or propriety at an activity of young people, as at a school dance.

Blogger Cloudbuster July 21, 2019 9:09 PM  

BalancedTryteOperators wrote:Testosterone suppression increases the IQ of prepubescent children.

That's quite a claim to throw out there with no backing. The research is a lot less conclusive than your claim. The causation and its direction isn't fully understood, and it's probably more likely that there's an optimal level of testosterone that is neither exceptionally high nor exceptionally low.

I also find it not very credible that medieval monks understood the hormonal effects on the developing intelligence of children well enough to believe castration enhanced intelligence, nor did they have a sufficient sample size to simply observe it empirically. I wager the castrations were carried out for much less savory reasons.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 9:11 PM  

This is interesting. I was a bmoc in high school but didn't bully because it seemed petty to me. My best buddy was a good guy but would get a certain gleam in his eye occasionally when he saw someone scuttling along trying to go unnoticed and proceed to torture them. Never did it to those who would fight back. It was like he had a sixth sense. I would even yell at them to fight back right in front of him. They never did. I would take them aside later and implore them to fight back. I would take him aside and ask him why? He always said a good ass kicking was what they needed. They might have thought I was just trying to get them hurt worse but I wasn't. An intelligent bully has this sixth sense.

Blogger ScottC July 21, 2019 9:25 PM  

How hard is it for a smaller guy to use weapons? If he'd just stabbed one of those guys, or blinded him, or blindsided one of them when their guard was down with a blunt object, they wouldn't have troubled him again.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 9:27 PM  

I was always taught to strike first and impress upon your adversary that they had better pack a lunch if they want to beat you. Because it's going to take all day long.

Blogger Kevin S. Van Horn July 21, 2019 9:48 PM  

James Dixon write:

"You have these things called teeth. Most of the time they forget that... See how long they hold on to that arm when a piece of theirs is missing."

That'll work if you have the neck of a giraffe. Otherwise you can reach about halfway to the end of your shoulder with your teeth.

Blogger Kevin S. Van Horn July 21, 2019 9:51 PM  

Poco writes:

"My best buddy was a good guy but would get a certain gleam in his eye occasionally when he saw someone scuttling along trying to go unnoticed and proceed to torture them."

No, your best buddy was not a good guy.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 21, 2019 9:57 PM  

BalancedTryteOperators wrote:Testosterone suppression increases the IQ of prepubescent children. Because testosterone fixes brain lateralization while low testosterone allows for more complex neurological networks to form. This is why monks in the Middle Ages often castrated precocious scholars.

The increase in the sociosexual hierarchy you gain being a jock is just not worth it.


I thought that the principle reason boys were caterated was to influence the way their voice developed (as well as make them effeminate for those monks who wished to bugger them)?

I listened to a man who was castrated by monks from Portugal and apparently due to his large lung volume, his effeminate voice was quite beautiful (my untrained ear couldn't tell that his voice was unusal in any way so I personally couldn't say).

This isn't to say that testosterone doesn't affect brain developmen. It does increase myelination and lateralization in boys, but why do you think a less lateralized brain is 'more complex'? Perhaps less lateralization = less complex, leading to a suboptimum IQ (as occurs in average females)? Heck, maybe less complex is correlated with a higher IQ ':-D

Incidentally, severe premature birth is correlated with higher than average IQ (in a few), but mostly mental retardation. So, there's a lot we don't know and much of what we may read.... is pure speculation.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 10:08 PM  

Sounds faggoty. I'll pass on that for my boys. I was jock in high school, played college baseball, and Salutatorian of my graduating class in high school. It was worth it.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 10:10 PM  

Bullying is something that normal grownups are ashamed to have done. I have gone back and apologised to the people I bullied. I've also apologised to a couple of guys who had good reason to want to beat me up, because I was being a Gamma dick.
It is to my everlasting shame that I bullied the nicest, kindest of my little brothers.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 10:14 PM  

He said he was a bully. Not that he wanted to be bullied.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 21, 2019 10:14 PM  

Gosh, all of this is bringing back memories of life back in MI. I remember a kid that looked about 17 going on 35 in Grade 10 or 11. This guy was a loner and a bully. Big. Full beard. He wore a black leather jacket and rode a chopper to school. Yes, this was back in the day when you could drive to school. Incidentally, I drove a 1969 Firebird with probably the fattest back tires you'd have seen with an ultra small custom pig to keep them under the car and a boredout pontiac 400 pushing them (if I remember correctly - did I mention this was MI?).

Anyway, this massive bully was walking along the halls in the lower-level of our highschool. Seemingly, out of nowhere, he shoves this teeny-tiny Asian kid into his locker.
Hard.
Just out of nowhere. Boom, right into the locker.
Welp, that puny kid jumped up, called out the bully. And as the bully turned around this little kid was already in full-body-round-house-punch-mode and locked it right into his jaw. I mean, he threw his entire bodyweight behind that punch (which admittedly was a sucker punch).

His fist bounced off this guys face like water off a ducks' back. Nothing happened other than the big guy growled a little. It was sort of comical. Then the little kid got his arse kicked. But, obviously the bully held back, I mean, if he wanted to he could have killed that little kid easily. He gave him a few body punches and left him on the ground.

What'd that little kid do? He scapped himself up and called him an asshole. Not even a tear in an eye.

Admireable.

I'd love to know what happened to both of those kids. I didn't know either of them. I wonder what sort of impact he made on that little kid. And I wonder why that bully was such an ass? I sort of just did my own thing half the time back them.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 10:18 PM  

Oh yes he was.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 10:19 PM  

And is.

Blogger damaris.tighe July 21, 2019 10:21 PM  

Jeez something like that "joke" happened when I was 8 - I have somehow managed to shake it off!

Resilience Rob !

Blogger Quicksilver July 21, 2019 11:06 PM  

How do you raise a child not to be a coward / gamma?

Blogger Prionyx July 21, 2019 11:21 PM  

My father and grandfather always had me help with the woodcutting and other chores so I was never the skinny little kid who got picked on first, but I still took a few punches here and there.

The most satisfying of all was a bully who liked to torment the other kids after taking beatings from his dad; a vicious drunk and bully himself. One day he slipped up on me when I wasn't paying attention and landed a good one right in the eye. I'd rung my own bell a few times from doing stupid stuff so the feeling wasn't a complete surprise, but it still caught me off-guard. Couldn't say anything right away; just stood there trying to get back into gear. Seemed like forever. At some point he said "What's the matter, gonna cry?" I have no idea where it came from, but I just said "No, I'm not a baby like you". In retrospect, that should have earned me a legendary beatdown, but he was the one who started crying and slunk off.

Faced with a no-win situation like that, Dreher should have pulled down his own pants and stared the girls down.

Blogger God Emperor Memes July 21, 2019 11:26 PM  

Having a father figure to set an example and encourage them is a good start. It's also good to have them involved in some form of contact sport or martial art, so they learn that applied violence has its place and to not be afraid of it.
I have told my daughter that she will never get into trouble for defending herself from bullies.

Blogger tublecane July 21, 2019 11:33 PM  

@43- Yeah. "You're alright, LaRusso."

Sorta analogous to the MGTOW "movement," or sexual loserdom in general. Where men convince themselves that they've taken their ball home like a gentleman because the game is unfair and everyone's a meanie-head. Usually over some trivial failure, though sometimes it is more significant. Not in Dreher's case, obviously.

They cut themselves off from the whole human experience. Never to know true physical male comradery or fitting into your place in the pack hierarchy. Must make life that much more tedious. What does it mean to a Dreher to have a male friend? Good conversation? Recipe swapping. Someone to sleep with your wife one day?

When picking out "incels" on the internet people usually focus on demonstrable lack of knowledge about courtship, seduction, and the sex act itself. However, I think one of those guys would be most devastated and bewildered by being dumped into the middle of heartbreak or a custody battle. Because it's way more human interaction than they're prepared for, and entirely out of their experience.

Similarly, if you were to drop Dreher into the heat of combat...well, I suppose that's unfair considering no one's ever really prepared for combat. But let's say any sort of high-tension situation calling for his physical intervention. He would be entirely in over his head.

Lonely people are wont to do run dialogue they've had during the day over in their minds. Which can be confused for obsessive compulsive disorder, but most of the time they probably do it because they simply don't have that much to think about. Likewise, Dreher appears to obsess over this non-pantsing Mom jeans incident because he hasn't experienced any real trauma.

Blogger stephen cooper July 21, 2019 11:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Poco July 21, 2019 11:59 PM  

I suspect Dreher was as obnoxious then as he is now and probably earned this minor chastisement that shook the world.

Blogger Unknown July 22, 2019 12:25 AM  

Banned from the American Conservative. Dreher's philosophy is grounded in cowardice. The Benedict option is about retreat from the public square and surrender to the anti-Christian forces. Dreher doesn't like it being pointed out that his philosophy of cowardice not only is morally wrong, but also unviable. As VD and others keep observing, eventually there is going to be nowhere left to run and cower.

Blogger Azimus July 22, 2019 12:44 AM  

His little waxing nostalgia DEFINITELY went in a different direction from when I started reading it... I mean, a few minutes on a hotel room floor on a school trip during adolescence... I mean, it kinda sounds like... I mean... did he do the fake-out on purpose?

Blogger BalancedTryteOperators July 22, 2019 1:50 AM  

This isn't to say that testosterone doesn't affect brain developmen. It does increase myelination and lateralization in boys, but why do you think a less lateralized brain is 'more complex'? Perhaps less lateralization = less complex, leading to a suboptimum IQ (as occurs in average females)? Heck, maybe less complex is correlated with a higher IQ ':-D

I don't know how to respond to the rest, but I do know how to respond to this.

Let's look at the X chromosome as a source of random mutations that boost or decrease IQ. Men have one but women have two. So according to the central limit theorem (you have two sources of noise instead of one), the distribution of women's IQ is going to have thinner tails which means less retards and also fewer geniuses too. And... that's exactly what we see in the population writ large.

Blogger Terrific July 22, 2019 2:17 AM  

A time for personal stories.

I was the youngest of six, with three older brothers. I could beat up the one closest to me in age, but the older twins regularly kicked my ass. One of my older sisters was a tomboy and could also kick my ass.

I always lost every fight with my older brothers and sister (until I hit puberty. Then she was easy pickings) but I always made sure it cost them. Once, when my oldest brother had me pinned, sitting on my chest with his knees pressing my upper arms to keep my fists away, I bit him on the inner thigh. He grabbed my head and pulled me away, but I bit him back in the same spot. He pulled my head away again, but this time I latched onto his wrist and hung on as he punched me in the face over and over, bruising my cheek enough to get him grounded. But I never let go until he was forced to jump off me to get away. It turned out to be good training.

When I got into fights after school, which were more like submission-style wrestling matches, even if they guys were older or bigger than me, I accepted that I was probably going to get my ass kicked but if that was the case, I would make sure I HURT THEM even as I lost. If I was REALLY afraid of getting hurt, I would go all BERSERKER on them, charging them, scratching at their faces, trying to bite them. Everyone is afraid of Cra-Cray!

My sophomore year high school, after I'd gotten saved, I was de facto leader of a small group of freshman boys, all of whom I'd led to the Lord earlier in the year. We carried our bibles with us every day to every class (this was 1977). We'd regularly meet at lunch and after school to talk about the Lord.

I found out one of the smaller guys was getting picked on by a couple of sophomores. A white guy and a black guy and it pissed me off. He pointed them out to me at lunch and I immediately walked over to them. I was of course, confused about the whole "turn the other cheek" thing, but I quickly decided that applied only when you were preaching the Gospel, not when you were dealing with thugs. Why did I come to that conclusion? Because I knew I had to protect my friend.

I let the jerk know if he bothered ANY of my friends I would personally shove his face through the concrete. It turned out I'd threatened the wrong guy! I'd threatened the white guy and it was the black guy who'd picked on my friend.

So I actually APOLOGIZED to the white guy. He yelled, "I told you it wasn't me!" I said, "Well, would YOU have believed YOU?" The question stunned him into silence. Then I told the black guy what I'd said to his friend applied to him.

He actually said, "Oh yeah? If you touch me I'll get my black friends to beat the crap out of you!"

I said, "You don't have any black friends! If you did, you wouldn't be hanging out with THIS guy!" His face fell and he just stared at me. Needless to say, we never had any more trouble with them.

Overall, good memories!

Blogger John Rockwell July 22, 2019 3:56 AM  

What's appalling is this puke of a Gamma is even able to marry and reproduce.

That there are fathers out there that are willing to marry their daughter to Gammas and Cowards like Rod.

Inceldom is what males like him deserve. None of them should have themselves a wife or family.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira July 22, 2019 5:31 AM  

When I got picked on, I'd throw a chair at the group of kids doing it, in full view of the teacher, then pickup another one before they had a chance to squeal in surrender. Of course I spent a lot of time in the office, and I never gave a shite in the face of authority. I'd rather take on the whole lot of these cowards and morons, spending time in detention for doing so, rather than behave like a Dreher and live in humiliation for years, writing articles like this. Women must run break landspeed records running from him.

Blogger JovianStorm July 22, 2019 5:40 AM  

I'm not an alpha... But I always physically fight back when appropriate. Don't care if it's male or female; attack me and I'm swinging back even if i lose. If your woman is the one who wants to see you fight me, she will get her jaw broken first.

Walk away until you can't walk away then fight until you are dead or victorious.

Dreher is the worst kind of man child.

Blogger tublecane July 22, 2019 5:53 AM  

Don't read Dreher regularly so I'm not sure exactly where he's coming from, but at the center of his argument here is the poor, lonely "dissenter." Above whom all manner of social and political power looms, making life nigh unbearable. Unless, that is, squishy moderates like him can cool the bubbling passions of wild mobs.

Trump is president, okay. However it's quite obvious that he himself is a dissenter. A dissenter from the outer circles of wealth and power he's been a part of so long. A dissenter within his party and his staff. Whatever goals are being ascribed to him--ethnic cleansing, or whatever--are even further outside mainstream acceptability, therefore more dissentious.

The left is always waiting for fascist street violence to rise. It never really comes, but occasionally center-right and rightist people venture out of their homes and congregate. Here, there is something for them to fear. But it's been almost four years of Trump rallies without any violence save that from anti-Trumpists.

What, then, is Dreher so worried about? Who's the bully and who's on the ground? I WISH my side were the bully. Or at least more bullish than it is. But I'm not sure.

Blogger Steve Samson July 22, 2019 6:22 AM  

You do need a father that will tell you that even if mummy and the teacher tells you off he will be proud of you for it, though. Too many boys don't have that.

Blogger GAHCindy July 22, 2019 7:24 AM  

Do nothing patiently accept the abuse and eventually they'll realize that you're not worth it and move on.

I did that in middle school and high school and it had a 100% success rate."

Yep, 100%, including your own opinion of yourself: not worth it. Terrible advice.

Blogger The Cooler July 22, 2019 7:35 AM  

What, then, is Dreher so worried about?

Himself. For people like Dreher, feelium is the 119th element.

Blogger GAHCindy July 22, 2019 7:40 AM  

"The increase in the sociosexual hierarchy you gain being a jock is just not worth it."

There it is again. Not worth it. Dem grapes is bitter, dude.

Blogger MidnightSun July 22, 2019 7:52 AM  

Quote from Rod Dreher:
"We Christians have a lot to learn from modern Orthodox Jews."
This just about sums up what Mr Dreher is all about. A total fraud in my opinion.

Blogger Avalanche July 22, 2019 8:51 AM  

@17 "The worst beatings I ever got were from my older brother. I was never able to win when we tangled. Today - we just laugh about it and reminisce about the good old days. Fighting as kids was a necessary rite of passage."

Which explains today's snowflakes! Not rites of passage, no passage, nothing more than 4-yr-olds wearing grown-up's clothes...

Blogger sammibandit July 22, 2019 9:26 AM  

Hahahah

Blogger Avalanche July 22, 2019 9:26 AM  

@43 "boys will often enough meet their lifelong best friends starting with a fistfight. That is how we're programmed, also. A coward forfeits the opportunity to be respected, but also he forfeits the right to fellowship, as well. You can't respect a man who has no self-respect, and you certainly can't befriend them."

And this is where women, not, or no longer, being raised around boys and men who understand and operate by the "male code" can ... effectively if unintentionally "castrate" a man in the eyes of his friends, coworkers, or acquaintances. If "his woman," the one person who knows him best in all the world, does not respect him and, worse, shows that disrespect in front of other men; the men conclude -- consciously or not -- that he is NOT a man they can rely on in a fight.

When my husband was courting me, decades ago, he wrote:

I was born into lower-middle/lower-class neighborhoods from the beginning. The picture of the Stevie Ray Vaughan family home in Keri's book perfectly captures the first home ... we spent most -- but not all -- our growing up in what were, for children, "impolite" neighborhoods. I use the word "impolite" only from my present perspective, for, at the time, I regarded this context, which was the only one I had known, as "normal," sensible, and, indeed, universal. My basic point is that it made so much sense to me that I internally *exaggerated,* rather than resisted or feared, its qualities, its "ethos."

I offer you the Code of Honor of lower-class little boys:
1) It is dishonorable to engage in combat with someone younger and/or substantially smaller, or a female of any age or size.
2) It is a mortal humiliation to be defeated by one of the former, should combat take place despite the prohibition.
3) It is honorable to defeat a peer in age and size, and glorious to defeat someone older and/or larger.
4) Younger siblings are to be defended from older or larger attackers, but are not to be humiliated by peremptory rescue from peers engaging them in honorable combat. Females are to be defended in any and all circumstances, at the cost of one's life, if necessary.
5) Opponents are not to be maimed or killed, but forced into a vulnerable position where such could be effected at the will of the ascendant combatant.
6) Younger siblings may be "picked on" in the sense of teasing or annoying, but may not be struck in the fashion of combatants.


I later baffled him when I said that I agreed with and supported that code. He replied that I didn't exhibit it all the time. "No, of course not -- I'm a GIRL! I respect it but am not bound by it."

Thus, little -- and grown-up -- Roddy is a girl.

Blogger Cloudbuster July 22, 2019 9:37 AM  

I later baffled him when I said that I agreed with and supported that code. He replied that I didn't exhibit it all the time. "No, of course not -- I'm a GIRL! I respect it but am not bound by it."

"Let's you and him fight!"

Blogger Avalanche July 22, 2019 10:01 AM  

@118 "I listened to a man who was castrated by monks from Portugal and apparently due to his large lung volume, his effeminate voice was quite beautiful"

Sorry, sperging a bit. The castrati sound so ethereal, and musicians can hear the difference and monastery choirs needed the high tenor voices of little boys. By castrating before puberty a boy with an especially pure voice -- and no familial protectors -- could be maintained with that voice. Castration prevents the boy's vocal cords from physically dropping down deeper in their necks, which is what causes both the voice 'cracking' as the vocal cords drop, and the final deep adult male voice.


@118 "This isn't to say that testosterone doesn't affect brain development ... lateralization in boys"

Generally and that's massively generally: across nearly all men, the male brain is split -- as the boy grows, the two different hemispheres specialize by routing neuronal growth for, e.g., speech or spatial functioning or actual muscle control to different 'sides.'

Thus, it is that most men who have strokes lose EITHER the good use of half their bodies OR the ability to speak; depends on which side of the brain is damaged by the stroke. Women's brains, again massively generally, do not 'specialize by hemisphere' and thus after a stroke they may lose parts of many abilities, but also maintain more parts of operations.

Trannies? Ha. Who knows? Who cares?

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 22, 2019 10:09 AM  

Oh dear, for a minute there I thought I was reading a HuffPost piece on growing up trans.

You might have been. Just wait, he's not done exploring his feelings yet.

Blogger Avalanche July 22, 2019 10:12 AM  

@148 "...I'm a GIRL! I respect it but am not bound by it."
"Let's you and him fight!"

I NEVER tried to start a fight between others!


@127 bully who liked to torment the other kids after taking beatings from his dad; a vicious drunk and bully himself.

I did get in trouble in jr. high school, after the very mean local bully Richie punched my nice (straight but weak) best friend Charlie in the stomach. I threw a rock at Richie; had it been a half-inch over, would have blinded him in that eye. My dad made me go over and apologize to Richie after he got home with stitches and all; in front of his very vicious and abusive father... A couple years after graduation, news came back that Richie had moved to FLA and 'come out.'

We may never know WHY people do stuff, but the rules seem pretty clear?

Blogger CarpeOro July 22, 2019 10:30 AM  

I was (and still am) short while in public school. That being said, I never really became a target beyond a brief period in maybe 5th grade. I am introverted and loved to read, didn't have any friends I can recall (one that I had moved out of state for a year). A lesser group (not the top popular kids) harassed me for awhile off and on. My saving grace was that I had already developed a slight (slight because I didn't provoke others or start fights) reputation of never backing down from a fight. I learned very early in the relative peacefulness of the early 1970s 99.9% white suburbia that no one would mess with you if you showed you were willing to take damage and would inflict as much as you could in return. The last fight I recall was with a POC that was over a foot taller than me and rail thin, picking on a younger kid that got rides along with me to the golf course where we were caddying. A couple of more intelligent POCs pulled him away from me - they could see I wasn't particularly angry yet, but had picked him up off the ground. They figured out before he did that if I had gotten mad he would have been in a world of hurt. You never back down as a kid and there aren't weapons involved.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 22, 2019 10:31 AM  

Confidence plays a part when the action is voluntary and you choose to respond. It's different when facing an existential threat. Then, it's likely automatic.

Right. One time a much bigger boy on the bus was picking on my little brother, and I dug my fingernails into his arm until he let go. I wasn't confident, and I wasn't trying to win a fight, I was just trying to get him to stop.

I think people get hung up on the stories of kids fighting back *and winning* as if that's the point, as if we're saying Rod should have confidently stood up to those bullies and vanquished them in fisticuffs. That's not it. It's about instinct, what you do when attacked. Do you fight back or surrender? You can fight while afraid, by the way. Anger helps, but just a sense of "I have to make him stop" will do. See Ralphie in A Christmas Story, or Ender.

Blogger rcocean July 22, 2019 10:40 AM  

I read Rod because he's interesting. Its amazing that he would revel personal details that make him look bad. He comes off as open and sincere in his attitudes. Compare him to worthless arrogant cucks like Erick Erickson, George Will, David brooks etc. At Rod is an HONEST cuckservative. Frankly, i would love to get the other side of the "my pants were pulled down" story. My suspicion is that 14 y/o was a snarky little kid who let everyone know he was 10x smarter than everyone else.

Blogger Tars Tarkas July 22, 2019 10:50 AM  

MidnightSun wrote:Quote from Rod Dreher:

"We Christians have a lot to learn from modern Orthodox Jews."

This just about sums up what Mr Dreher is all about. A total fraud in my opinion.


I absolutely agree with him on this point, but probably not what we have to learn from them.

Orthodox Jews are an insular group with lots of traditions who stick together and force their way of life on their fellow Orthodox Jews. If our people acted like Orthodox Jews, at least in some ways, we would not have cucks like David French adopting African kids in the name of his Christian faith. We would not have cucks decrying the lack of diversity in our small towns. We would have a healthy growing population. In fact, a lot of our problems would be solved by imitating some of their behavior.

Blogger Sillon July 22, 2019 12:53 PM  

I was always being picked on as a kid, not bullied but often people picked on me as I was the skinny weirdo who doesn't play soccer in a small town where everybody knows each other.

Never got a clear victory in a fight until I was 13 and I was always afraid of people hurting me.

I never developed victim mentality, I even got knocked unconscious once fighting a much larger guy who had "borrowed" my brother's bike.

One day I had enough of being picked on, I got in a fight with one of the largest brutes in my town that I started, I punched him twice in the face as hard as I could which wasn't much as I was very skinny, we got separated by adults in the middle of the fight.

While I lost the fight, (he hit me more times than I hit him) every single kid in town talked for weeks about it, the weirdo happened to have balls and punches in the face.

No one, no one has ever picked up on me from that moment on, and I became friendly with the brutes to this day.

One has to fight back no matter what.

Blogger Michael July 22, 2019 1:59 PM  

Dreher will have the last laugh when society collapses or socialism is implemented. He will be safe and sound in a converted hill fort in Provence, eating local cuisine with his wife and her kids, and blogging about being pantsed in high school.

Blogger Clay July 22, 2019 4:34 PM  

I can remember when I attended a Catholic School. Me, and one of my best friends, Kevin, got into some kind of a disagreement that festered. The Nun saw this, thru class itself.

One day, at recess, she takes us two off to the side, and says "shake hands, or get it over with". Here I was, all ready for a boxing match, and the little bastard Kevin kicks me in the shin with his cowboy boot. Nun called a penalty, fight over.

Funny, me and Kevin became best friends again, after that.

Blogger justaguy July 22, 2019 5:16 PM  

While many of the responders above had the chance to fight back, today the school system has all of the power and will not the bullied fight back. Suspension, expelled, and other methods to ruin chances to get into college. I don't think any parent can really threaten a school with lawsuits in the suburbs anymore-- they just don't care. they have lawyers and $. It is more important to the administrators that they win like good little gamma SJWs, than worry about a couple of parents who they will then make examples of-- take it out in other ways on the kids.

Sorry, my view from watching my kids in HS is that the lone guy can't win, all that Clint Eastwood the solo hero wins crap was just movies-- the system crushes the outlier now. Homeschooling is a better answer.

BTW, my answer was to have my boys in great physical shape and had taken martial arts until high school. The hard physical contact of the teen/adult classes led them to stop. They didn't want the training enough to take the bruises that came with adult level full contact- but that is something I let them decide by 14. My youngest thought that doing well in the weight room during weight training class (they actually had that for the athletes) was enough.

Blogger MichaelJMaier July 22, 2019 7:06 PM  

I have a single middle finger to anyone that says "They deserve it" just by existing and minding their own business. It was never even "keeping someone in their place" because I didn't want a place. I didn't see the damned point.

There are those among you that have a disconnect as to whatever "aid" you think bullies give the bullied. I never had an idea how to react. It wasn't cowardice, it was confusion. Utter confusion how some asshole could go from buddy to bully in a split second for seemingly no reason.

Was I defective? Maybe. But bullies sure didn't teach me a damned thing coming up. They just added to the mass of confusion.

I doubt I'll ever have kids. But if I do, I hope to have them mentally ready to seriously bloody up without mercy any fucking assholes that think people "deserve" to be beaten.

Blogger Unbiasedmike July 22, 2019 8:30 PM  

Teaching boys to fight back is well and good and martial arts/sports are great for that. What about girls though? I'm a newish dad with a 2YO girl and I want to raise a good woman not an "empowered" one. Thoughts on a good approach?

Blogger Jack Amok July 22, 2019 10:30 PM  

Today the school system has all of the power

Only if your kids go there.

Blogger bdoran July 23, 2019 12:02 AM  

The cowards have no vote, no check, no say. No rights. Men decide.

Blogger streamfortyseven July 23, 2019 5:20 AM  

I've actually had run ins with Rod, in person, about 20 years ago in a discussion club that I was a part of in Kansas City. I think I took him apart - intellectually - a few times, we really did *not* get along. That explains why I've always been banned from submitting comments to the American Conservative website, I suppose.

As for fights, I've never had many to speak of. One time in 7th grade, this one 9th grader tried to demonstrate a karate high kick on my jaw. I leaned back, saw the sole of his shoe pass my nose, and then grabbed his foot and gave it a hard twist, so that it ended up at a 90 degree angle to where it should be. He didn't get up or walk away - not with a dislocated hip. He was out of school for 10 days and was on crutches for a while. No trouble for me, he owned up as to what he'd done - we actually became friends after that, and I didn't get messed with by anyone else. In 11th grade, I went to a 70% black high school. There was a lot of black on white violence, this gang of black kids threw a white kid down three flights of stairs, nearly killed him. The same bunch surrounded me one day in the gym, the leader stood across from me, and I locked eyes with him, he started yelling, and then he punched me as hard as he could in my chest, and I kept my eyes locked with his, no flinch, no nothing. And he and his buddies started calling me crazy - and kept up with it - but they didn't mess with me again. So that wasn't much of a fight either. Nothing in undergrad, in grad school I got in with a punk rock scene - kept me sane during the process of getting a PhD (chemistry), and there was this one Nazi skinhead who showed up and I saw him at a show and he was doing the Nazi skinhead thing and people were scared of him. I was, too, I'd seen him pound a guy's head into the gravel at a show after knocking him down. Anyhow, I told him that we weren't going to take any Nazi skinhead crap here (because if you accept abuse, you invite more abuse), and he looked at me and asked if I knew who he was, and I said yes, and I repeated what I said and looked him in the eyes when I said it. And I was ready to fight him - and I was wearing the same clothes I'd worn to my office in the Grad Student Common Room of our research group... And he backed down, and said, "OK, you're the only one around here with enough balls to tell me that, and I respect that" and he ceased with the Nazi skinhead stuff, although he kept on being a skinhead. And we became friends. And that wasn't even a fight.

The guy here who is proud of being a bully and says his victims deserved it, he's the fucking worst scum of the earth and he deserves to be soundly chain-whipped, by the way.

OK, that's enough.

Blogger VD July 23, 2019 6:25 AM  

I NEVER tried to start a fight between others!

Come on, Avalanche, that's what about half your comments here are specifically intended to do, by your own admission. You have even called for American men to fight the British government to defend British girls from Pakistanis living in Britain.

Blogger John Galley July 24, 2019 2:17 AM  

Can you imagine writing that, then reading it and thinking I'm not a cuck. I read his book last year the brokedick option or something like that the end might of well said cuck to Mexico and find a safe space. Dude makes me contemplate puking.

Blogger John Galley July 24, 2019 2:19 AM  

I remember that line what was his book called brokedick option or something.

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