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Thursday, July 18, 2019

The Gatekeeper's Ball

The Z-man infiltrates the neoclowns' attempt to rebrand themselves as "National Conservatives":
The final speaker of the morning session was Yoram Hazony. It was an interesting performance to behold. He started out criticizing neoconservatives, making the absurd claim that the current crop of neocons are not the real neocons. They have strayed from the original into imperialism. Then he let it be known that one of the sponsors for this show was The public Interest, a neocon quarterly founded by Irving Kristol. The fact that he said this without laughing was quite remarkable.

He then moved onto libertarianism. It’s interesting to hear these guys criticize libertarianism, because they don’t really know why they oppose it. They just associate it with the cultural decline, so they assume it is the cause. There’s also a reactionary vibe to their fight with the libertarians. These new nationalists don’t like the libertarians, because libertarians oppose nationalism. For their purposes, maybe that’s enough to dismiss the economic arguments against their brand of nationalism.

The third part of his speech was a trade about white nationalism. He fumbled around trying to say something about biological reality, but that made him sound like a nut from the flat earth society. Then he warned about the threat of white nationalism, especially among young people. Then he made the claim that there is no such thing as tribal loyalty, which is an odd thing, given that he claims a nation is a collection of tribes. As in his book, it’s clear he terrifies himself when he follows his logic to its conclusion....

The funny thing about this event is not a single person has bothered to mention that conservatism, whether neocon or Buckley, managed to conserve nothing.
They managed to derail the Tea Party, but I very much doubt they'll be successful in jumping in front of the nationalist parade. I addressed this very topic in last night's Darkstream.

Labels: ,

56 Comments:

Blogger SB71 July 18, 2019 12:41 PM  

30 percent of the attendees were Jews, according to ZMan. All you need to know

Blogger Crew July 18, 2019 12:45 PM  

Perhaps we should call them the American Destruction League.

Blogger Brett baker July 18, 2019 12:46 PM  

I would have thought by now that everyone would know that tribalism is bad when other people do it. Not our tribe though. Oh, wait....

Blogger Crew July 18, 2019 12:58 PM  

Oh, wait. The ADL already exists and pretty much has the same agenda.

Blogger Lovekraft July 18, 2019 12:58 PM  

This mid-level theorist circuit needs the functioning society, but also needs to keep the head off of it. A tenuous navigation among pitting various groups against each other, while maintaining some semblence of functionality. Whether these people have the ability to go beyond this is doubtful but it would be a relief if they decided to allow free discussion

Blogger Lovekraft July 18, 2019 12:59 PM  

'heat' not head. By heat, I mean redirection

Blogger Gettimothy July 18, 2019 1:26 PM  

Gatekeeping in action:

David French Retweeted

Jonah Goldberg

Verified account

@JonahNRO
16h16 hours ago
More
I know I’m a broken record. But there is nothing in American patriotism that could create an argument for “send her back.” There is plenty in nationalism that would demand it. Oh, FWIW I think Omar’s views run the gamut from silly to reprehensible. But she’s an American. Period.


The stupid, it burns; the arrogance, it angers.

Blogger Stilicho July 18, 2019 1:28 PM  

Just from the quoted section about Hazony:
No true neocon

Credentialism/credibility by association (w/neocons)

White nationalism strawman

Tribal loyalty for me but not for thee.

What will Hazony and his fellow travelers tell us next? That usury, slavery, totalitarianism, and genocide are all bad unless it is Jews benefiting from it?

Has the littlest chickensquawk joined this lot yet? The Gay Moustache?

Blogger Scuzzaman July 18, 2019 1:30 PM  

Oh they’ll jump in front of resurgent nationalism - that’s what this gabfest was all about. It’s just that it’s going to crush them.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 18, 2019 1:53 PM  

They did detail the tea party by taking it over and they used help from the left. By 2010 the left was hand writing about Sarah Palin and "her" tea part. No mention that it was around nearly a decade before that and Ron Paul was considered it's ideological founder.
This time, these neocons will try to coopt something that their fellow travellers have already demonized as a second Nazi movement, in an environment where everybody to the right of Mao is literally Hitler. Yeah good luck with that. The left may get orders to leave this project alone, but their brainwashed NPCs will be wildcards.

Blogger VD July 18, 2019 2:11 PM  

But she’s an American. Period.

Show us the DNA.

US Citizen != American.

Blogger CarpeOro July 18, 2019 2:15 PM  

The new neocons? They're no neocons. I knew Trotsky, and these new types aren't good enough to be used to shine his shoes. Worldwide revolution of the proletariat now!!!

Wait, what? Oh yes, I meant Kristol (the old one, named "Irving"), and worldwide democratic revolution now!!! All the goyim can't be equal until they are all slaves! Equally!

What now? Oh, yes, we are now all nationalists!!! Except the goyim, they still need to be diversified. In a worldwide, er, nationalist revolution!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 18, 2019 2:19 PM  

A Cultural Marxist can be a US citizen but not an American.

Blogger Ken Younos July 18, 2019 2:28 PM  

It's not even clear what constitutes being a "conservative" is anymore, other than being against socialism and things like multiculturalism. Conservatism used to be a religious ideology. Dennis Prager, for example, is a conservative. PragerU videos try to convince people to become religious. But many people who are now calling themselves "conservative" are not conservative in that way at all. I think a more fitting description of this second group of people would simply be "moderate nationalist". Conservatism and nationalism are distinct, just like conservatism and classical liberalism are distinct.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel July 18, 2019 2:29 PM  

Funny thing about Libertarians. They run around with Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, apparently unperturbed by the author's digust with them.

Blogger tublecane July 18, 2019 2:29 PM  

If I were to start up a scam like this, there's no way in a million tries I'd pick a name like Yoram Hazony to star. I might have said this before, but it's like making Marco Rubio the face of amnesty. Just why?

Find some Whitebread Jed. Heck, even Buckley was better, despite being a pretend-Anglo Catholic Mexican Parisian spook Yalie homo effete snob.

Blogger tublecane July 18, 2019 2:39 PM  

@7- In which conception of American patriotism is nationalism excluded? Maybe, just maybe he thinks the Founders came before the concept of a nation existed. But simply do a Google search on quotes from the Federalist Papers, for instance, and you find not only the word "nation" but that John Jay passage where he goes on about same ancestors, same language, same religion, same manners and customs, and so on.

What is the difference between that and nationalism? Well, the nationalist movements of the mid-19th century, from which we derive what I'd call the basic idea of future nationalist movements, were relative to the Founding considerably more left-wing. Then again, Goldberg, enemy of nationalism, is far more left-wing than those manning the barricades in '48.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 18, 2019 2:53 PM  

Funny thing about Libertarians. They run around with Atlas Shrugged

I wonder sometimes if they've read it. The villains are industrialists, artists, and academics who use their power to shut down their competition. All private corporations and individuals. Their looting starts with voluntary actions within their industries like the Anti-dog-eat-dog Rule. Government is presented as bad, but mainly in terms of how the villains can use it against their enemies. It's a background force, not a villain. If she were writing it today, Google/Facebook/Twitter could be the ones meeting in dark rooms at the top of hotels, deciding who should get to register domains. Galt's Gulch, of course, had the strictest border policy possible, not to mention an absolute prohibition on usury.

Blogger Ken Younos July 18, 2019 2:57 PM  

The 13 colonies which became the 13 States of the USA were all Anglo-Protestant. This was the national character of the USA when it first achieved independence - but it was not the definition of the USA. American national identity was ultimately political, not ethnic or religious - which was why the first Americans went to war against the British twice. Where nationality is defined politically rather than ethnically and/or religiously, we have the beginning of civic nationalism. From here it was inevitable that non-English non-Protestant immigrants begin to be accepted into America. Many even expressed the belief that you do not even have to be Christian to become an American. Social mores being something which are gradually overcome, if the original logic of the Founding Fathers - namely, that American identity is ultimately defined politically - is followed to its conclusion, we have full blown civic nationalism.

Blogger Stilicho July 18, 2019 3:16 PM  

Patriotism and nationalism are the same damned thing. Patria-denoting descent from the same father. Natio-denoting birth, family relationship.

Example: non sibi, sed patria - not self bit nation.

One can also logically argue that one cannot be a patriot without first being a nationalist (that is, if you think any distinction is valid... such as ascribing nationalism to a nation and limiting patriotism to a country of residence)

Oxford English dictionary:

Patriotism: devotion to and vigorous support for one's country: synonyms: nationalism-patriotic sentiment, allegiance to one's country.

In other news, Goldberg and French remain cheese-eating surrender flunkies

Blogger Stilicho July 18, 2019 3:20 PM  

Civ-nats claim one can be an American patriot without being an actual American. To do so, they necessarily redefine American to include not-Americans, especially themselves.

Blogger Stilicho July 18, 2019 3:32 PM  

First they ignored us, thinking we would hold our noses and follow their lead.

Then they laughed and tried to disparage the political movement of which Trump is the result as populism.

When that didn't work, they attacked it as nationalism and equated it with Nazism.

When that did not produce the desired result, they now claim to lead it while trying to redefine and co-opt it for their own purposes.

Eventually, they will return to their home on the globalist left. There's just no future in selling cruise tickets to the boomer rubes anymore.

Blogger Tars Tarkas July 18, 2019 3:41 PM  

Gettimothy wrote:I know I’m a broken record. But there is nothing in American patriotism that could create an argument for “send her back.” There is plenty in nationalism that would demand it. Oh, FWIW I think Omar’s views run the gamut from silly to reprehensible. But she’s an American. Period.

Is not even born in America, practices a foreign religion, hates America and everyone in it. Wants to completely change America into something foreign, but is somehow still American.

@18 I heard she was a major degenerate involved in a polyamorous marriage.
If she were alive today, she would be calling us all racist. She would need to go back.

Blogger tublecane July 18, 2019 3:53 PM  

@19- No, Anglo-Protestantism was not the definition of the American nation. But those are only two aspect of the panoply of traits that make up a nation. There's also history. Americans lived in their colonies for nearly 200 years before proclaiming independence. They developed unique culture, customs, traditions, and so forth. Not radically unique, because England was still the Mother Country. But they were distinct.

Geography is a huge one. There was a whole ocean between Mother England and Baby America.

"American nationality identity was ultimately political, not ethnic or religious - which was why the first Americans went to war with the British twice"

Not sure I understand the logic. You can go to war with co-ethnics and co-religionists without your only differences being political in nature. And their were profound differences between the different strains of Protestantism dominant in England and America, respectively. There were also ethnic differences in the particular kind of people in authority in both countries.

"we have the beginning of civic nationalism"

I would place that more at the Civil War, because that's when the American nation died. Then things were decided at the end of the sword, and ultimately what Washington said went.

Blogger Sherlock July 18, 2019 3:55 PM  

Given the above quibble about the definition of "American," would different terminology be a better solution?

What is a good word for the group of Anglos that immigrated and conquered? I often identify as a Virginian. I never hear immigrants call themselves something like that, only "American."

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2019 3:58 PM  

tublecane wrote:And their were profound differences between the different strains of Protestantism dominant in England and America, respectively.

Yes, indeed. Read up about the Black Robe Brigade.

Blogger Starboard July 18, 2019 4:02 PM  

Ah, the Tea Party: naive protestors in tricorn hats ringing bells, good citizens in red, white, and blue with their reasoned arguments about fairness and the constitution, always leaving their protest sites cleaner than the were on arrival. Good times. Too bad they were literally hitler.

Blogger sammibandit July 18, 2019 4:10 PM  

@tublecane,

One of my favourite sagas is about a lady who stole a wheel of cheese. Her husband warned her not to steal it because everyone was starving and they'd surely be caught, but she didn't listen. He smacked her and she decided she'd get vengeance. When her family and the family with the missing cheese went to war some years later she found herself in a situation where she could warn her husband of incoming arrows, and didn't. He was killed. The show Vikings reproduced this saga with heavy editing when Lagertha's second husband hit her and she didn't warn him. Cheese, it is worth fighting over, apparently.

Blogger Alexamenos July 18, 2019 4:16 PM  

I notice at the latest Trump rally not only heart-warming chants of 'send her back', but also unenthusiastic, barely tepid, at most polite applause when Trump started going on about how we need all these great new immigrants for all the great new jobs.

Maybe Non-Player-Conservatives are starting to get the idea that being replaced isn't such a good thing

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 18, 2019 4:39 PM  

They are going off of an old playbook.

It wasn't too hard to get out in front of the old Tea Party.

Because the Tea Party didn't hate The Establishment... Yet!

The distrust wasn't there, when they moved in on the movement. "Just vote us back in and we'll take care of everything."

Although one thing that should have been a glowing, hot red tell for us was how the new leadership of the Tea Party treated Sarah Palin.

Palin was the face of proto-nationalism. And they clearly hated it.

It was the betrayal of the Tea Party by The Establishment that radicalized the likes of me.

Blogger Stilicho July 18, 2019 5:07 PM  

@tars tarkas: Omar doesn't even meet Jonah Goldberg's proposition nation definition of American because she openly does not subscribe to the propositions he's talking about. Just demonstrates Goldberg's fundamental dishonesty.. lying his ample fundament off

Blogger Beardy Bear July 18, 2019 5:43 PM  

The word is American. This label cannot be taken from us. There are no compromises. You don't haggle down the robber stealing your TV to please leave the remote.

Blogger Brick Hardslab July 18, 2019 5:44 PM  

Paper American set of the comments section like a squirrel in church at Legal Insurrection. I wish I had thought of it. I hope you don't mind me using it.

Blogger ZhukovG July 18, 2019 5:59 PM  

@Matrick: Don't bother responding to Haxo, he appears to be a complete whack job monomaniac.

Blogger Meng Greenleaf July 18, 2019 6:01 PM  

Maybe it's not possible, but I feel it could be good Rhetoric if we could associate these new neoclowns with the *British Aristocracy* and paint them as the (((New))) Monarchy (and their lapdog American sympathizers). Which, many are.

Then begin pulling out (and make new versions) of all of the old comics and images used in the first revolutionary war and the war of 1812.

The Nostalgia would hearken to a time of "English Brethren" as well as instill a sense of "Conservative" (even if it is only rhetorical). I think many fence sitters would get a bit of spine seeing these old references as well as understand that what needed to be done.......... needed to be done.

You're fathers did it, why aren't you?

Blogger Sherlock July 18, 2019 6:31 PM  

Maybe. Maybe it's not accurate.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2019 7:28 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:@Matrick: Don't bother responding to Haxo, he appears to be a complete whack job monomaniac.

He's been repeatedly banned here, and keeps coming back. You can see him over on WRSA. Concerned American doesn't keep the idiots and gammas out, so Haxo fits right into the shit show there.

Blogger Hammerli 280 July 18, 2019 7:32 PM  

Civic nationalism demands adherence to a civic creed. And those who will not adhere to it need to find somewhere else to live...whether they want to or not.

Or we could go straight-up blood-and-soil nationalism. I'm good either way.

Blogger English Tom July 18, 2019 7:45 PM  

Imagine, of all people, a jew saying there's no such thing as tribal loyalty.

I am astonished!

Blogger Joel Oafsteen July 18, 2019 7:49 PM  

Who on the Sanhedrin Council did he piss off? Perhaps he neglected his dues at the Shul?

Blogger Gettimothy July 18, 2019 8:33 PM  

@40 Civc nationalism demands adherence to a civic creed

Nicene creed works; bring it!

Blogger Randy July 18, 2019 9:04 PM  

@Cataline Sergius - The treatment of Palin by the party started to change my thinking.
The despicable treatment of the Tea Party did it for me too. I was hoping to reform the Party of Stupid(tm) after their perpetual mediocrity of the past decades.

Now I realize that they're the enemy as well. They're the Vichy to the Dem's Germany.

Blogger the dude July 18, 2019 9:31 PM  

French et al are ridiculous faggz

Blogger Garuna July 18, 2019 10:59 PM  

These Jews should just give it up. People are becoming too savvy for these silly tricks to work anymore. And that is both on the right as well as the left.

Blogger Garuna July 18, 2019 11:02 PM  

Omar doesn't even meet Jonah Goldberg's proposition nation definition of American because she openly does not subscribe to the propositions he's talking about.

That true. If America is just an idea, then anyone who doesn't believe the idea is just a Fake American.

Blogger Dan in Georgia July 19, 2019 1:44 AM  

@30. I am 100% sure Trump noticed the tepid applause for getting replaced by foreigners too. He pays careful attention to how crowds react at his rallies.
It's how he got elected, it's how the Trumpslide cometh.

Blogger Dan in Georgia July 19, 2019 1:56 AM  

@43. After the Nicene Creed, just note who is replaced by a pile of ash and dispose of properly. Insert inappropriate holocaust jokes here...

Blogger Ranger July 19, 2019 4:04 AM  

We know that the "proposition nation" is a lie, because even its defenders never follow the idea to its conclusion, which would basically mean stripping american citizenship of basically every Democrat under 40 (I think most boomer democrats still tend to believe in the First Ammendment, but could be wrong there. On my experience with the under-40s, they are all anti-first ammendment. I suppose that to a soy they are also anti-second ammendment).

Blogger Ranger July 19, 2019 4:05 AM  

I mean, we know it's a lie and not just an error. The ones who propose it know it is not true.

Blogger Desdichado July 19, 2019 7:33 AM  

Sherlock wrote:Given the above quibble about the definition of "American," would different terminology be a better solution?

What is a good word for the group of Anglos that immigrated and conquered? I often identify as a Virginian. I never hear immigrants call themselves something like that, only "American."

I'm also an ethnic Texan and an ethnic Southerner. But I refuse to relinquish my claim to the label of American just because a bunch of Fake Americans are trying to use it too.

Blogger Sherlock July 19, 2019 8:35 AM  

I think my point is being lost. My fault. I am not talking about relinquishing anything, especially not because of any immigrants. I'm wondering if the term American is precise or accurate.

Blogger ace July 19, 2019 10:04 AM  

Neocucks: America is an idea
"Omar": I hate that idea tho
NCs: The perfect woman!

Blogger CM July 19, 2019 12:23 PM  

@JonahNRO
16h16 hours ago
More
I know I’m a broken record. But there is nothing in American patriotism that could create an argument for “send her back.” There is plenty in nationalism that would demand it. Oh, FWIW I think Omar’s views run the gamut from silly to reprehensible. But she’s an American. Period.

The stupid, it burns; the arrogance, it angers.


Even by proposition nation standards, she isn't American.

Blogger KPKinSunnyPhiladelphia July 19, 2019 1:08 PM  

It's always good to ask yourself when you see someone:

"Does this person belong here?"

Obviously, gang members of MS 13 don't belong here.
Low IQ unskilled uneducated Latin American and African males don't belong here.

Meanwhile, you can make an argument, though reasonable people may disagree, that, say, Dinesh D'Sousa belongs here.

Ilhan Omar DOES NOT belong here. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Blogger rcocean July 19, 2019 5:09 PM  

"Oh, FWIW I think Omar’s views run the gamut from silly to reprehensible."

Yeah, that's Jonah's shtick. He's always - deep in his soul - in favor of Patriotism and the Right things BUT....

There's *always* a BUT.

Blogger Glaivester July 20, 2019 8:23 AM  

Interestingly enough, at the conference (((Amy Wax))) argued that the effect of trying to base immigration on cultural similarities will be to favor whites over non-whites (and she is fine with that). Yoram has defended her from attacks by lefties, so maybe there is some hope that this exercise will not only fail at gatekeeping, but will even drive the gatekeepers more toward blood and soil nationalism.

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