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Wednesday, August 21, 2019

Flying the Devil's flag

Contra what many people would very much like to believe, Andrew Klavan is not, and has never been, one of the good guys. He is still a dedicated servant of the lie, as his own words testify:
It's really interesting, they had this thing in in Portland over the weekend where antifa, the fascists who call themselves anti-fascist, and the Proud Boys, who seem to have overlooked the democracy problem themselves. We're fighting each other, right, they're out there, they were gonna have demonstrations and counter-demonstrations, and fight. Antifa is an absolutely miserable violent leftist organization and the Proud Boys seem to be instigating violence - in the name of white supremacy.

So Sean Hannity goes on TV, right, and Sean Hannity says a pox on both your houses, a plague on both your houses, this is not the way this,  goes we're one country, even though Sean is a deep, deep, partisan pro-Trump partisan. He is saying the people I argue with, I'm arguing with, right, we're not we're not enemies, we're opponents in this fight. We're not hitting each other over the head with clubs. Here's just a taste of what Sean said, but what matters here is we can have a thorough, complete,  passionate,  open discussion of ideas and ideals. We don't need fists and baseball bats and maces, you know. This show will always condemn hatred on any side, white supremacy, bigotry, you have no place in this society, none whatsoever.
What society is that, exactly? What do you mean by "we", kemosabe. There is no "us". Andrew Klavan's show not only fails to condemn racial supremacy, he openly associates with known racial supremacists like Ben Shapiru and Dennis Prager. And let's face it, we all know he's intelligent enough to know better, which is how we observe that he is himself a liar, a subverter, and among those who seek to destroy both America and the West by transforming them into things they are not and have never been.

Anyone who claims to oppose "identity politics" at this point is either a clueless loser or a liar. I'm willing to cut some slack for the average idiot Boomer who was steeped in civic nationalism for his entire life, but the fact is that it is, and has always, been known to be, a polite fiction, as Belloc observes.

It was the attitude familiar to the nineteenth century, and agreeable to that one of its political moods in which it found itself best satisfied: ... of creating a fiction of single citizenship to replace the reality of dual allegiance; of calling a [foreigner] a full member of whatever society he happened to inhabit during whatever space of time he happened to sojourn there in his wanderings across the earth. That was the attitude agreeable on the political side to everything which called itself "modern thought." Such was the doctrine proposed by the great men of the French Revolution. Such was the attitude accepted almost enthusiastically by Liberal England, that is, by all the dominant public life of England during the Victorian period. Such was the policy which once obtained universal favour throughout the whole of our Western civilization. That was the attitude which the West actually attempted to impose upon Eastern States, and the last effect of its rapidly-declining credit is to be found in certain clauses of the Treaty of Versailles: for that attitude is still the official attitude of all our governments.

It's not  just "the Democrats" who are flying the Devil's flag, Mr. Klavan. And you obviously know damn well who else is flying the flag of their father.

UPDATE: A Klavan fan, who may soon be a former Klavan fan, copied me on an email to him:
You said in episode 752 that the "Proud Boys seem to be instigating violence in the name of white supremacy..". I call you to retract this statement. It is not true. The Proud Boys have members of all colours and do not support white supremacy. I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just don't know. If you do not retract this statement, you are a liar. I will not longer be able to trust that you are speaking truth and I will no longer be listening to you.

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146 Comments:

Blogger McChuck August 21, 2019 11:43 AM  

I stopped listening to Klavan when he kept saying "My people, the Jews". After talking about how faithful a convert to Christianity he was, and how loyal and American he was.

A is not B. B is not A. Saying they are the same is the work of the devil.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan August 21, 2019 11:46 AM  

Meth head speaking style, bailed early, and yeah his job is to protect the right flank of Cultural Marxism, his identity over us, see last thread.

Blogger Jeroth August 21, 2019 11:55 AM  

I know what will save America! AntiRa! Anti-Racist Action!

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1163885706466484224

Conservatism is just a parody of the left.

Blogger Dan in Georgia August 21, 2019 12:01 PM  

It reads like one big long sneer.

Blogger doctrev August 21, 2019 12:02 PM  

Totally uncalled for, Vox. I for one celebrate how Judeo-Christian legal ethics have led to a strong and universally respected legal system where people don't die in jails, unlike RUSSIA! Such a system is obviously going to stop groups like Antifa from becoming a growing influence in blue cities.

Blogger ar10308 August 21, 2019 12:02 PM  

Klaven is just as bad as Shapiru. I thought he had more sense than this based on his Christianity.
But it is clear based on the way he defames the Civ-Nat Proud Boys as "Racists" and "White Supremacists" that he is your typical Judeo-Christian.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother August 21, 2019 12:05 PM  

Always important to remember that the Balkan wars were different kinds of white people fighting each other.

Blogger Noah B. August 21, 2019 12:07 PM  

Stage 3 imminent.

Blogger thalios August 21, 2019 12:10 PM  

Noah B. wrote:Stage 3 imminent.

Damn.

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:14 PM  

"Proud Boys seem to be instigating violence - in the name of white supremacy"

According to who? Carlos Maza?

The Proud Boys are a meme. They're the personification of the tamer side of 4-chan: a multi-colored coalition whose only real casus belli is the defense of the most basic of western values such as the US bill of rights.

Anyone who parrots the media liars about "muh white supremacy" in regard to the Proud Boys is outing themselves as a fraud unworthy of any further credibility.

Blogger Coyotewise August 21, 2019 12:16 PM  

The comments on that are 80% 'wait what?'

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:18 PM  

@11 and mind you that's on YouTube where they've spent the past 24 months ratcheting up the censorship to "Orwell and Huxley would have stopped writing and started bombing by now if they were alive" levels.

Blogger Dos Voltz August 21, 2019 12:20 PM  

As a youth I was informed by all authority figures that the internment camps set up in the USA during WWII by the Roosevelt administration for people of Japanese descent were a blight on our national character and a bigoted mistake. "That's not who we are," they'd say.

Of course they never mention Roosevelt. It is always couched something like Omar's "some people did some things." (Can't have bad democrats in the narrative. But I digress).

For most of my life I believed this lie. But now I see that it was likely necessary. If the sentiments of "Japanese-Americans" were plotted on a bell curve, perhaps 90% were loyal to their new country, but still leaves 10% living among us who would be loyal to their ancestral country and people. And I think I am being generous here.

This would be a problem for any Empire, when war comes that involves an enemy state that also has many of its own populating your Empire. Don't want this problem? Then don't be an Empire, for it's a feature, not a bug.

BTW, I note no one ever talked about the Germanic internment camps at all. Zero. This is because (I think) those people were European stock, looked like every other white person, so who cares? Since racism only specifically means whites in their behavior against minorities, NEVER whites and other whites. Maybe I am wrong, but perhaps the apathy for white well-being has been here well prior to the 1960s.

Klavan et al very much desire (and they got it) their own ethno-state and will defend it above all else. For them, this idea only works for a special, chosen sort of people, and of course no other nation or "ethnicity" is entitled to a homeland, for that is just bigotry and "not who we are."

Blogger Talios Hammerfist August 21, 2019 12:28 PM  

Can the Daily Wire be sued for libel/slander of the Proud Boys?

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:29 PM  

@13

That's the thing..

Klavan and Shapiro DONT desire their ethno-state or they'd have moved there.

I suspect anyone who cares about their Jewish identity and has not made aliyah is a casualty of the thousands of years of in-breeding the Ashkenazim have suffered to maintain their "purity".

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 12:30 PM  

Around the time he started his podcast, Klavan was running ads on the local News/Talk station (WJR in Detroit) to sell subscriptions(!) for the privilege to read his opinions. Even in 30-second commercials, featuring 2- and 3-second soundbites, his slant on everything seemed somehow just off kilter.

So, my thought is, "Who the hell is this *ssh*l*?"

So, I did a web-search.

Jewish.
VISIBLY Jewish from 50 meters away.

Ah, yes, well that explains everything.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine August 21, 2019 12:32 PM  

"Conservatism is just a parody of the left."

Nah, they're the stop having fun guys of the left. Nothing more or less.

Blogger cloom August 21, 2019 12:32 PM  

Then the Proud Boys are also clueless and this will change them as much as the attack on Gavin changed them; ie. ... not much? I am seeing my Canadian political allies the same way as they call for unity; ie. clueless. Faith Goldy went from a mayor campaign, which I thought was a political baby step, to sounding the retreat bugle, to colonize internally, outside the cities per her recent video. I see it that way too. The Oct 21 Canada election re: PPC results, might or might not change PPC supporters from unity to identity politics. I am watching to see.

Blogger JAG August 21, 2019 12:33 PM  

wahr01 wrote:"Proud Boys seem to be instigating violence - in the name of white supremacy"

According to who? Carlos Maza?

The Proud Boys are a meme. They're the personification of the tamer side of 4-chan: a multi-colored coalition whose only real casus belli is the defense of the most basic of western values such as the US bill of rights.

Anyone who parrots the media liars about "muh white supremacy" in regard to the Proud Boys is outing themselves as a fraud unworthy of any further credibility.



The fact that he qualified it with "seems" betrays him as a liar. He knows he's lying. He's lying about being a Christian too. He never was. That is just a cover.

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:34 PM  

@18

Canada is Venezuela at this point.
Trudeau's courts have ruled the truth is hate speech and his government has merged with the media to exclude major political parties from the electoral process.

It's done. Stick a fork in it.

Blogger Gianna August 21, 2019 12:39 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger doctrev August 21, 2019 12:43 PM  

??? For American readers: the PPC is not a major party. The Bloc Quebecois performs better, and they're strictly regional. God bless the PPC, but they've learned nothing from the past thirty years of Canadian politics if they think they'll make a political impact. That bias against tiny parties has been there in every parliamentary system, including Britain's, yet Farage made a good go of it because of circumstances.

Without the right moment, you can't hope to make political change, and if you try to impose an Antifa-style revolution in Canada you'll quickly wish you hadn't. (Besides which, it's mostly superfluous from the liberal angle.)

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:43 PM  

Talios Hammerfist wrote:Can the Daily Wire be sued for libel/slander of the Proud Boys?

Not until we get 4 more judges on the Supreme Court who have received the Kavanaugh Treatment, and thus the skin in the game required to force an overturn of NYT V. Sullivan

What a profoundly stupid case that was.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 12:43 PM  

@6

"Klaven is just as bad as Shapiru. I thought he had more sense than this based on his Christianity."

What Christianity?

Micheal Wiener (aka Micheal Savage) actually makes a point of stating the differences between Jewish ethics and Christian ethics, and openly states that he converted to the latter.

I've seen nothing from Klavan to indicate that he has the slightest clue about what Christianity is, other than that Christians in the U.S. still outnumber Jews.

Blogger dienw August 21, 2019 12:49 PM  

@5 Doctrev
I for one celebrate how Judeo-Christian..

So Doctrev, you believe in Jesus Christ...but you think He is in Gehenna being boiled in a vat of feces for all eternity?

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 12:54 PM  

dienw.... Uh, Doctrev's sarcasm just screamed right past you without you noticing, eh?

Read what Doctrev wrote again... the ENTIRE thing.

Blogger VFM #7634 August 21, 2019 12:55 PM  

Klaven is just as bad as Shapiru. I thought he had more sense than this based on his Christianity.

It's a safe bet a convert to Christianity is fake if he doesn't look upon his previous religion with disdain and contempt, if not horror.

I mean, consider how Obama genuinely likes Islam more than Christianity. And people wonder why so many Americans think he's a Muslim...

Blogger doctrev August 21, 2019 12:55 PM  

... I'm gonna be honest, Dirk. At the time I was worried I was coming on too strong with the sarcasm.

Blogger wahr01 August 21, 2019 12:58 PM  

@24 I'm very interested in this write-up.

The tech-left have of course made it impossible to raise in a search.

Blogger dienw August 21, 2019 12:58 PM  

doctrev: I didn't catch the under-tone; so I opted for the default.

Blogger JAG August 21, 2019 1:00 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Klaven is just as bad as Shapiru. I thought he had more sense than this based on his Christianity.

It's a safe bet a convert to Christianity is fake if he doesn't look upon his previous religion with disdain and contempt, if not horror.

I mean, consider how Obama genuinely likes Islam more than Christianity. And people wonder why so many Americans think he's a Muslim...


One of the few times Obama told the truth was that Freudian slip where he admitted he was Muslim.

Blogger JAG August 21, 2019 1:01 PM  

Also, the comments section at Klaven's video is not going well for him at all. It will be interesting to see how he tries to get out of this self-dug hole now that his audience got a peek behind the curtain.

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 21, 2019 1:03 PM  

Two "seem"s in that first paragraph, to allow him to paint both groups with the "violent" brush but leave himself room to say later that's not what he did.

Blogger Nation-Deprived August 21, 2019 1:05 PM  

I started doubting Klavan after he proudly declared belief that Jews will also go to heaven even if they deny Jesus Christ. I wonder why he would bother converting when he’s already born of the Chosen.

Blogger justaguy August 21, 2019 1:09 PM  

I'll say this, looking at Shapiru and Klavan on the right as well as their counterparts on the left, they have managed to monetize and monopolize both sides of our debate.

Blogger Dan in Georgia August 21, 2019 1:12 PM  

wahr01 wrote:Talios Hammerfist wrote:Can the Daily Wire be sued for libel/slander of the Proud Boys?

Not until we get 4 more judges on the Supreme Court who have received the Kavanaugh Treatment, and thus the skin in the game required to force an overturn of NYT V. Sullivan

What a profoundly stupid case that was.



I wouldn't count of Kavanaugh, but I have heard that Clarence Thomas wants to revisit that decision--bigly. It's probably why he's hanging on now. Trump needs maybe 1 or 2 more picks before Thomas will be confident he can reverse that decision.

Blogger Dan in Georgia August 21, 2019 1:21 PM  

@31 The amount of times he has referred to Michelle as "Michael" is telling as well, plus the lack of "pregnancy" pics.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 21, 2019 1:28 PM  

What is common to Belloc's observation and our times?

A long period of prosperity that creates arrogance and entitlement (to the good life), along with a sense of unlimited resources.

In other words, people become utterly trivial, also known as the "self-actualization" phase of human "needs," where once safety is assumed assured, we move to "belonging" (I am loved! I know because I have so many FB friends and TWIT followers!) to "esteem" (see, I really am a king) to self-actualization (the ideas I parrot like some clown's sock-puppet must be forced on all!)

So many ways to observe the cyclicality of human social behavior.

Blogger Desdichado August 21, 2019 1:32 PM  

wahr01 wrote:@13That's the thing..

Klavan and Shapiro DONT desire their ethno-state or they'd have moved there.

What's the rush? There's still money to be made off the conservative rubes. Besides, they can probably bolt to their condos in Tel Aviv with very little notice and be there within hours.

Blogger peacefulposter August 21, 2019 1:39 PM  

Such was the doctrine proposed by the great men of the French Revolution.

Do you hear the people sing?

Blogger HouellebecqGurl August 21, 2019 1:53 PM  

He's as slimy or slimier than his (((fellow))) Christian convert, Prager
I've always thought of Klavan as the smarter of the Shapiro/NeoCon gang.

Blogger Stilicho August 21, 2019 1:55 PM  

So, we've found an actual "judeo-christian" in the form of Andrew Klavan*. Next up: sightings of "judeo-christ" himself?

*isn't "klavan" some sort of title in the KKK?

Blogger R Webfoot August 21, 2019 1:56 PM  

It's not just that the Proud Boys do not support white supremacy. The Proud Boys explicitly disavow white supremacy and deliberately expelled white supremacists, because early in their existence a large number of white nationalists tried to join and take it over from the inside. Last I checked, you had to specifically disavow white supremacy to even join in the first place.

Blogger Joe Smith August 21, 2019 2:05 PM  

I can still watch Klavan and enjoy the show. He is clearly muddled by his Boomerdom and Jewish heritage though. He can't disentangle himself from his analysis. I don't see him as a liar, or at least not yet, but I do think one has to be careful when listening to him to note his bias.

I first noticed it once I really internalized that the race+IQ issue was real, and has some not-so-awesome implications. Klavan keeps saying reality can't be racist, while simultaneously maintaining that IQ doesn't matter, and anyway talking about it is a little bit racist. I don't see that as a lie though, I just think he's muddled because he doesn't like the conclusion.

Blogger Xiety August 21, 2019 2:06 PM  

His twitter includes a retweet of an article from The Atlantic: "Games Boys Play: How Gears of War Helped Me Come Out." Written by Spencer Klavan. Don't know if they're related beyond the obvious.

Blogger Crew August 21, 2019 2:09 PM  

Such was the doctrine proposed by the great men of the French Revolution. Such was the attitude accepted almost enthusiastically by Liberal England, that is, by all the dominant public life of England during the Victorian period. Such was the policy which once obtained universal favour throughout the whole of our Western civilization. That was the attitude which the West actually attempted to impose upon Eastern States, and the last effect of its rapidly-declining credit is to be found in certain clauses of the Treaty of Versailles: for that attitude is still the official attitude of all our governments.

Wait. Why would governments do that unless the parasites were in full control.

Blogger ar10308 August 21, 2019 2:09 PM  

@24 Klavan has claimed to be a Christian convert in the past, at least on podcasts and videos I've seen.

@27 Whether he is a Christian who has faith in Jesus Christ is between him and Christ, so that is well above my pay grade to determine.

Blogger Richard Rahl August 21, 2019 2:11 PM  

The Daily Wire's hired liars like Klavan and Knowles can't avoid these moments where a big chunk of their audience notices their BS because they're forced to spout the approved agenda. The approved talking points are such obviously lies in cases like this one that over time, virtually their entire audience will be composed of cuckservative NPCs. Similar to what happened to JBP and Crowder.

Blogger dc.sunsets August 21, 2019 2:13 PM  

When black people disavow black supremacy and Mestizos disavow La Raza, I'll give a fig.

You shall know them by the words they use. It's that simple. Anyone who uses the term, "white supremacist" is an existential enemy, the same as anyone who uses the term, "universal background checks" favors a monopoly on gun ownership by government agents and those intent on committing violent crimes.

All else is LIE.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 21, 2019 2:14 PM  

Nation-Deprived wrote:I started doubting Klavan after he proudly declared belief that Jews will also go to heaven even if they deny Jesus Christ. I wonder why he would bother converting when he’s already born of the Chosen.

That seems to be a pretty standard position of most conservative Boomers and Churchians.

Blogger Beardy Bear August 21, 2019 2:17 PM  

I was a Proud Boy 2nd Degree. They kick you out if you go racial supremacist (though not American Nationalist). Klavan had the benefit of the doubt, but now he shall be cast asunder. This is a bold faced-lie. It's a shame when the funny and talented, like Klavan, sell out for the fancy-pants and lollipops. We have no King but Christ!

Blogger VD August 21, 2019 2:18 PM  

I don't see him as a liar, or at least not yet, but I do think one has to be careful when listening to him to note his bias.

He's lying, but you don't see him as a liar. What do you think that tells everyone about you?

Blogger David Ray Milton August 21, 2019 2:25 PM  

#StopBelievingInJewnicorns

I accept that they theoretically exist, but the line between the theoretical and empirical is often as wide as the chasm between Lazarus and the rich fool.

Blogger CarpeOro August 21, 2019 2:30 PM  

@doctrev
Not a Canadian and having come back from employment exile on the third coast (Chicago) after some 15 years I've lost touch with politics across the Detroit river. I do recall watching the Conservatives implode some time back when all but a handful jumped ship for the Reform(?) party. To an extent, that is what my take on Farage's efforts in England - a part of the party revolting after a failure of leadership. Not at all familiar with the PPC and with enough concern with Michigan sliding back into the Demican/Republicrat column to avoid taking on someone else's fight, still hope for change on your side of the river.

Blogger Nate August 21, 2019 2:44 PM  

while I have no affection for the Proud Boys... they are a trainwreck of an organization if ever their was one... the assertion that they are instigating the violence is a bold faced lie.

Blogger CarpeOro August 21, 2019 2:47 PM  

@ar10308

Haven't heard that he calls himself a goat yet, but I'll just lump that in with other observations you can confirm by watching actions. Jesus was pretty clear about people that tried to lead his flock astray - they aren't of him.

Blogger lowercaseb August 21, 2019 2:57 PM  

Good Lord...he is getting roasted in the comments, but the ratio upholds. Looks like his check to the PRC clickfarms cleared.

五毛 is the future of YouTube.

Blogger lynnefoghart August 21, 2019 2:59 PM  

I guess I haven't been following these things closely but I'm confused by the Proud Boys. The media and even the Proud Boys themselves seem to want to push a media image of the counterbalance to Antifa. However, (and again I have not been following closely), they were founded by Gavin McInnes? I am not a long enough viewer of this blog to know the views formed on the man, but he appears to be founder of Vice, a youth-directed liberal-tilted media entity that was affiliated for some time with HBO as a distributor, an even more heavily leftist influenced media entity. He also appears to be married to a highly liberal woman and is from Canada. He appears to have some videos where he complains generally about some broad cultural dissatisfactions of the right but I did not watch enough to determine his affiliations or actual political beliefs. But based on his affiliations and life choices and background, I find affiliation of an organization founded by him being considered right-wing to be dubious. Again, I could be entirely off-base, as I have done very little looking into the matter.

Blogger David Ray Milton August 21, 2019 3:10 PM  

You’re about half-correct in summarizing McInness. He founded Vice, but sold it awhile back. He’s a libertarian Trump supporter, hipster, and classic CivNat.

Blogger Dave W. August 21, 2019 3:12 PM  

Vox, please let us know if he responds to his fan's challenge. I'm very interested to hear how he responds. I used to listen to Klavan occasionally and I'm disappointed as all hell to find out he's a liar. I didn't realize that he was working for Shapiro (shows how much I was paying attention to him).

Blogger lynnefoghart August 21, 2019 3:19 PM  

@ 59

Ahhhhhhhh ... hipster. That explains the ironic looking mustachios on an otherwise not especially masculine-looking dandy haha. That's an interesting mix of ideologies and styles to have all at once. Must be a lot to keep track of. I'd be disoriented!

Blogger Ominous Cowherd August 21, 2019 3:24 PM  

Joe Smith wrote:I don't see that as a lie though, I just think he's muddled because he doesn't like the conclusion.

He's too stupid to figure out he's wrong, then? That's almost worse: a liar might repent, but you can't fix stupid.

Blogger tublecane August 21, 2019 3:29 PM  

@34- I don't know much about Klavan, but I do know he wrote a book subtitled "A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ." Why specify "secular?" It's strange.

Blogger areopagus August 21, 2019 3:34 PM  

Kravan's idiocy about the Proud Boys is obvious, and well commented on. But the lies he said about Ilhan Omar were despicable.

I'm no fan of the squad, and I'm kicking myself in the ass for defending one of them, but everything Omar said in that short clip Klavan showed was absolutely true.

Yes!! Israel is a "democracy" only in a scare quote sort of way. Israel is an "ally" only in a scare quote sort of way. No nation is a democracy when 70% of its citizens cannot vote. No nation is an ally when it attacks our naval vessels (with impunity), spies on us continuously, buys our political representatives, and perverts our democracy.

Klavan also conflates anti-israeli policy with antisemitism. He seems like a pretty rational guy in most other areas. But, this alone makes him a pathetic, low-life liar. He can't be trusted.

Blogger Old Griz August 21, 2019 3:34 PM  

Here's my two cents. Andrew Klavan is a work in progress. He started life as an atheist liberal Jew. Life smacked him in the face and he had to convert to the conservative side. The hole in his heart led him to Christ. He is smart enough to realize that he must believe in civic nationalism to claim to be an American. He backs away from Christianity's view of homosexuality because his son Spencer is an open gay man. He started as an avid anti-Trumper. He has since become a reluctant fan.

He may be lying but that is because there are things he just can't admit to himself. He derides the leftard press but occasionally take the narrative at face value. I believe he has started to move on the right path. He still has a long way to go.

I used to largely agree with Klavan and think VD was a bit lost in the woods. I still don't agree on everything VD says, but my doubts are fading. I think Klavan is progressing in the right direction. I have hope for the man.

Blogger Crew August 21, 2019 3:40 PM  

I was a Proud Boy 2nd Degree.

Is that like the FreeMasons?

Blogger tublecane August 21, 2019 3:42 PM  

@45- They're father and gay son. In that article the son says he didn't fear coming out because though daddy is conservative and Christian, he's also an artist (because he writes drugstore paperback fiction) raised amongst New York intellectuals. Which may be code for Jewish, I don't know.

Klavan the younger is also a classics scholar who tells us the West is universal and based on Greek ethics plus Judeo-Christian Whatever.

Blogger Jeroth August 21, 2019 3:42 PM  

Nate wrote:while I have no affection for the Proud Boys... they are a trainwreck of an organization if ever their was one... the assertion that they are instigating the violence is a bold faced lie.

If the Proud Boys aren't instigating the violence, then maybe the alt-right wasn't instigating the violence at Charlottesville. Hence, The Proud Boys MUST be instigating the violence.

Blogger Joe Smith August 21, 2019 3:44 PM  

@52 Maybe I wrote it badly. I don't see him as a liar because I don't think he's lying. I think he's entangled around his own identity enough that he believes what he's saying. He's just wrong. Or at least, so I contend. I am open to the idea that he's intentionally misstating what he knows to be true, but I don't believe that to be the case at the moment.

Blogger Mr. Roshi August 21, 2019 3:53 PM  

"Proud Boys seem to be instigating violence in the name of white supremacy."

keyword = seem

Klaven knows the truth, but speaks lies through what some people observe, falsely, as truth. ( according too his neighbors, Ted Bundy "seemed" like a real nice fellow.)

Klavin is Shapiru's sidekick to the whole "judeo-Christian" shtick. he is a sheild against those who would call out Shapiru's jewish supremacy.

Blogger Xiety August 21, 2019 3:56 PM  

tublecane wrote:They're father and gay son. In that article the son says he didn't fear coming out because though daddy is conservative and Christian, he's also an artist (because he writes drugstore paperback fiction) raised amongst New York intellectuals.
That's perfect. Thanks.

Blogger C-Speaks August 21, 2019 3:57 PM  

As soon as you see someone as intelligent as Klavan sitting down in a dressing gown, cigar in hand discussing the 'Judeo-Christian' roots of the West with Shapiru you have all the information you'll ever need on the guy.

Blogger pyrrhus August 21, 2019 3:57 PM  

@49 Yes, the words "White supremacist" are pretty infallible in telling Americans who is the enemy......

Blogger David Ray Milton August 21, 2019 4:12 PM  

Though I agree with him very little politically, I did enjoy his podcast tremendously. He’s incredibly funny, a great story teller, and has led a very interesting life. Not to mention a successful entrepreneur. The mix is best explained by the fact that fatherhood has changed him drastically for the better.

Blogger Damelon Brinn August 21, 2019 4:13 PM  

@58 lynnefoghart, Your confusion is understandable, but I think you described them pretty well. I think there's a decent chance that Proud Boys are being propped up by the other side because the media desperately needs a right-wing counterpart to Antifa, one that will show up to be filmed in street battles so it's not Antifa vs. Trash Cans again.

Having said that, they are definitely not white supremacists, and everyone who's paying attention knows it. Some normie who's only heard about them on CNN might think they are, but no one who gets paid to talk politics has any excuse. The way he stuck the word "seems" in there shows that he knows better, but he thinks he's technically not lying because he didn't call them that, he just said they seem like that, which he can blame on others.

Blogger Noah B. August 21, 2019 4:21 PM  

They're father and gay son. In that article the son says he didn't fear coming out because though daddy is conservative and Christian, he's also an artist (because he writes drugstore paperback fiction) raised amongst New York intellectuals. Which may be code for Jewish, I don't know.

Bear in mind that many gays were molested as children, often by family members.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 4:22 PM  

@29

"I'm very interested in this write-up.

The tech-left have of course made it impossible to raise in a search."

You have to listen to Savage on the radio. When, for example, he criticizes Bernie Seltzer as the stereotypical "Seltzer Man" (who would sell bottles of carbonated water... as seen in all too many "seltzer-bottle fights" on 1950's-60's TV (visualize water based Class A fire extinguishers, but in 1-quart glass bottles)), he's criticizing the stereotypical Jew.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 4:24 PM  

@36

"I wouldn't count of Kavanaugh, but I have heard that Clarence Thomas wants to revisit that decision--bigly. It's probably why he's hanging on now. Trump needs maybe 1 or 2 more picks before Thomas will be confident he can reverse that decision."

Would be most wonderful to see Thomas write the opinion overturning Sullivan vs NYT, and then sue the NYT's socks off for all the libel they've published against him since 1991.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 4:28 PM  

@39

"
What's the rush? There's still money to be made off the conservative rubes. Besides, they can probably bolt to their condos in Tel Aviv with very little notice and be there within hours."

Something tells me that if the cold Civil War in the U.S. goes hot, that some battle group of the US Navy will level both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. And the Europeans won't lift a finger. Even before the Afro-Muslim invasion of their countries, they were never supportive of Isreal, especially viz a viz their ongoing war with their co-Satanists, Arafat and the Moloch worshippers.

Blogger Dole August 21, 2019 4:44 PM  

Fan of Shapiru is complaining about racism? That is quite something.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 4:44 PM  

@44

"I can still watch Klavan and enjoy the show. He is clearly muddled by his Boomerdom and Jewish heritage though."

You've got a stronger stomach than I.

I can't even stand Hannity any more, and *HIS* only problem is being born into (and thus having the thought-processes of someone from) an Irish family. And I'm half Eastern-European for heaven's sake.

@46
re: Treaty of Versailles economically tyrannical terms.



I suggest your listen to (((Benjamin Freedman)))'s 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel [Freedman was a genuine convert to Christianity], in which not only does he back the Nazi's "stabbed in the back" theory, but then lays it all out, step by step, exactly HOW the "stab in the back" against Germany was carried out.

For some reason, the SJW's aren't purging it -- amazing.

@47
"Whether [Klavan] is a Christian who has faith in Jesus Christ is between him and Christ, so that is well above my pay grade to determine."

Do you pick grapes from the thistles? Do you find figs growing among the thorns? By their fruits, you will know them.

Klavan ain't no Christian, because he bears no Christian fruit. He's a Jewish taqquiyatomist. And Yes, Judaism DOES have a "noble lie" rule just like Islam does.

"Wait. Why would governments do that unless the parasites were in full control."

@55

"while I have no affection for the Proud Boys... they are a trainwreck of an organization if ever their was one... the assertion that they are instigating the violence is a bold faced lie."

Well, one thing's for sure -- they're putting the following directly in front of normie America: "Come see the violence inherent in the SJW system."

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 4:59 PM  

@67

"raised amongst New York intellectuals. Which may be code for Jewish, I don't know."

Are there any other types of New York [pseudo-]intellectuals? The only smart people left in New York are people who are there making money off of the local population. If your supposed job is "intellectual," you can do that damn near anywhere.

@75

"I think there's a decent chance that Proud Boys are being propped up by the other side"

Kinda like when chapters of the KKK and the Black Panthers would send to sagging local organizations on the opposing side of the fence. Nothing brings in $$$ support like Joe Normie seeing "the enemy" demonstrating in public.

Blogger VD August 21, 2019 5:03 PM  

He may be lying but that is because there are things he just can't admit to himself. He derides the leftard press but occasionally take the narrative at face value. I believe he has started to move on the right path.

Some tell the truth about most things in order to strategically lie. You sound like Jordan Peterson's defenders.

Blogger Solon August 21, 2019 5:04 PM  

I kinda miss when every other comment was:

"Every. Single. Time."

Haven't yet seen an example of it not eventually holding true. /pol/ was right AGAIN.

OT: 4/pol/ isn't nearly as interesting as 8/pol/, although a post went up this morning where an Anon from endchan claims that Q dropped him a crumb: "comms down for a reason." Could be nothing, could be something.

Blogger ace August 21, 2019 5:08 PM  

AJALT

Blogger Sam August 21, 2019 5:11 PM  

@64

"Yes!! Israel is a "democracy" only in a scare quote sort of way. Israel is an "ally" only in a scare quote sort of way. No nation is a democracy when 70% of its citizens cannot vote. No nation is an ally when it attacks our naval vessels (with impunity), spies on us continuously, buys our political representatives, and perverts our democracy."

If you don't count Israel, every first world democracy is below replacement and effectively a suicide cult. "Jews lying to the goyim trying to burn the world down to prevent themselves from becoming the next round of human sacrifices" is not a strong condemnation of Jews.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 5:17 PM  

@84

"OT: 4/pol/ isn't nearly as interesting as 8/pol/, although a post went up this morning where an Anon from endchan claims that Q dropped him a crumb: "comms down for a reason." Could be nothing, could be something."

Considering that Q has the NSA on their side, "Comms down for a reason" is a good thing. It means information black-out.

The Wacht Am Rhine operation (which caused The Battle of the Bulge) was such a suprise to the Western Allies precisely because NONE of the planning was done by radio traffic. The entire thing was done by in-person meetings, telephone calls, and documents sent by courier or military postal system. That was the first time in 4 years that the Germans planned a major op without the Allies being able to follow along with the Enigma/Ultra decrypts.

Q and pals are planning their own Wacht Am Rhine.

Blogger Noah B. August 21, 2019 5:27 PM  

Calling Antifa fascists is another lie. They are anarchists. Klavan's subtle implication is that unjust violence and fascism are necessarily linked, which is a roundabout way of attacking those who have fought back against communists for the last hundred years, who have been subsequently labeled fascists, while minimizing the crimes committed by the tribe.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 5:27 PM  

@86

"If you don't count Israel, every first world democracy is below replacement and effectively a suicide cult. "Jews lying to the goyim trying to burn the world down to prevent themselves from becoming the next round of human sacrifices" is not a strong condemnation of Jews."

But Jews burning down the world because they are pathological arsonists IS. And their own record, going all the way back to Genesis, indicates exactly that. Throughout the Old Testament, one thing is consistent -- when one is in a foreign land, the protagonist curries favor with the local king, and then figures out some way to magnify the riches and power of said King... but always, ALWAYS... at the expense of his own people. And then, there's a backlash.

Reading those old stories, I often get the impression that guys like Jacob (Egypt, interpreting dreams, 7 years bumper crops then 7 years famine/ overtaxing the Egyptians/extorting the people out of all of their livestock, and then all of their land, and then their homes, just to get their own grain back) were less into the idea of doing God's will than they were into promoting their own wealth, and especially power over the common people and even government officials, at the expense of the health of the society which they had wormed their way into.

Jews never would have been in bondage in Egypt if Jacob hadn't screwed over 99.999% of the Egyptian public with his "a bit of food if you sign over to me your < strike >livestock < /strike >< strike > land < /strike> home to me" scam.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 5:31 PM  

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Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 5:35 PM  

@88

"Calling Antifa fascists is another lie. They are anarchists."

Since when have anarchists cooperated with the police?
Since when have anarchists demanded that the government have MORE controls over people's lives -- especially with regards to finances and jail time?


They're against freedom of assembly
They're against free speech
They're against Christianity
They're upset that Communism isn't "progressing" fast enough in the U.S.
and... have you ever seen a non-White ANTIFA?

All they need are Hugo Boss uniforms, and they would BE indistinguishable.

They only thing they DON'T do that the Fascists did was get into street brawls with OPENLY avowed Commies.


You're either an abject liar, or an idiot.
Which is it?

Blogger Zaklog the Great August 21, 2019 5:43 PM  

So if you haven't already seen it, my recent The myth of the white supremacist seems relevant to another one of VD's posts.

Blogger areopagus August 21, 2019 5:51 PM  

@81 (@44)

I'm Irish and I could take offense, if I could work up a good case of giving a shit.

I'm sure you've heard why God created whiskey: To keep the Mics from taking over the world.

Blogger tublecane August 21, 2019 6:04 PM  

@91- "Anarchist" basically meant commie at one point. Though a small subset were libertarian in the fashion of John Henry Mackay.

Blogger Beardy Bear August 21, 2019 6:05 PM  

Nate wrote:while I have no affection for the Proud Boys... they are a trainwreck of an organization if ever their was one...

This is precisely why I left. They are indeed a trainwreck, as is Gavin. The apple and so forth...

Blogger Beardy Bear August 21, 2019 6:06 PM  

@66 No, though the PB's were created to be a fraternal order like the masons or the knights of columbus.

Blogger English Tom August 21, 2019 6:12 PM  

@justaguy

Re: jews monopolise and monetise both sides of the debate.

Welcome to the dialectic, and the essence of Jewish behaviour.

Blogger Arthur Isaac August 21, 2019 6:12 PM  

So I got an email from YouTube that I read as they will be getting rid of their messaging altogether on there site. Anyone else getting a whiff of this?

Blogger Beardy Bear August 21, 2019 6:18 PM  

@91 Know your enemy: Antifa are not an organization, so much as a loose conglomeration of other well-funded groups. They operate under the guise of Antifa to avoid disparaging the image of their larger organizations. Officially, they are anarcho-communists, however, that is but a front to obscure the cells themselves. As conglomerates go, each individual cell operating within Antifa has its own methods, goals, and identity. This is why you see these contradictions. Known cells include but are not limited to: Black Lives Matter, SHARP, RASH, BAMN, Occupy.

Blogger Gregory the Great August 21, 2019 6:18 PM  

OT, but also flying the devil's flag:
Influencer Marketing Agency with a goat's head logo
https://goatagency.com/about-us/
Clients include: Lidl, Adidas, DHL, Malibu, UEFA, Yahoo and ... Iron Maiden.

Blogger Noah B. August 21, 2019 6:20 PM  

Dirk, you're obviously ignorant of the history of Antifa, violent anarchist movements, and fascism. Try checking a reliable source like Infogalactic, or even a not so reliable one like Wikipedia, before you say stupid things.

Fascism is inherently nationalist in nature. One of Antifa's main purposes is to oppose nationalism.

Blogger English Tom August 21, 2019 6:23 PM  

@Damelon

Even the POC members of the Proud Boys, and other Trump supporters, seem like white supremacists.

Can't anyone see that?

Blogger LP916 August 21, 2019 6:27 PM  

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Blogger Joe Smith August 21, 2019 6:42 PM  

@VD @83 That is true. What made Shapiru's lying obvious to me was when he publicly called you a white supremacist, even though he knew you from WND, so he would know that is BS. That's a really obvious one. I haven't seen Klavan do that kind of obvious lie yet--he might just be more skilled than Shapiru. I do like Klavan though, and that might be coloring my view. I have been getting the whiff of a fork tongue off him for a while, but haven't caught him in an obviously untrue statement that he would know for sure isn't true.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 6:45 PM  

@101

"Dirk, you're obviously ignorant of the history of Antifa, violent anarchist movements, and fascism. "

Just because they put on a front of being anarchists doesn't mean that they are actually any more anarchist than old Joseph Stalin....

They ONLY time they've acted as anarchists was on inauguration day.

Blogger Gregory the Great August 21, 2019 6:57 PM  

As soon as you use the term "white supremacist" as if it means anything, for example by saying "I am not a white supremacist" you have walked right into their trap by reinforcing their narrative. After that you will have to explain for the rest of your life, why you said you are not a white supremacist and still claim that Mozart was a greater composer than Fifty Cent.

Blogger SirHamster August 21, 2019 6:58 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:They only thing they DON'T do that the Fascists did was get into street brawls with OPENLY avowed Commies.

Antifa are Commies, so of course they wouldn't. Their sefl-label of "Antifa" is reasonably accurate.

Blogger Old Griz August 21, 2019 7:01 PM  

@VD @83 Maybe you're right. Klavan and Prager come across so nice I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm noticing more and more though how many places where they just get it wrong.

Blogger LP916 August 21, 2019 7:20 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger LP916 August 21, 2019 7:21 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SciVo August 21, 2019 7:31 PM  

English Tom wrote:Re: jews monopolise and monetise both sides of the debate.

Welcome to the dialectic, and the essence of Jewish behaviour.


"Ho ho, two Jews and three opinions, and one of them is on your side." Classic example:

Thesis: Nationalism is bad [for the Jews].
Antithesis: Zionism is good [for the Jews].
Synthesis: Nationalism is only good if it's Jewish.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella August 21, 2019 7:35 PM  

Andrew Klavan was raised a Jew. He went through a Bar Mitzvah that left him depressed. He attended UCalBerkeley. So, he's coastal, and frankly, patronizing of non-coastals. He wrote for newspapers, then wrote thrillers. A few were turned into movies, early on. He's wealthy and well-connected from that. He is insulated from everyone's every day concerns.

He was depressed, and began watching Joel Osteen sermons. He was converted by them. After that, he joined an Episcopal Church. He believes in their more liberal doctrines, including gay priests. He thinks fundamentalists are fine people, but narrow-minded, judgey and not with the spirit of God.

He wrote a book about converting to Christianity. He does not offer his testimony for free, which is what normal Christians do, in hopes of reaching others. My counter-example is Eric Falkenstein, economist, who gives his testimony for free, despite being a rock-ribbed conservative economist.

He writes books where the protagonists and side characters struggle with their faith and testimony. You can watch him go through all of this in public. Right now, he's trying to figure out how Elizabeth Smart has such grace after her experiences of life.

His son wrote a few essays for PJMedia about how Westerners really need to understand and respect and get along with Muslims, starting with the ones in the Middle Ages. The comments were mostly about Mohammed being a pedophile. He quit writing for them. Also, a defense of grad school, even if it's expensive, right when Occupy had former grad students holding up signs about their lifetime debt burden from school. Like I said, very elitest and out of touch. But not top elite, so they don't have a sense of being up-top, and they definitely don't have a sense of those beneath them, financially or educationally. Very mind-blind, all around.

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 7:36 PM  

@108

"Klavan and Prager come across so nice I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm noticing more and more though how many places where they just get it wrong."

Look... the pathological liar, like Hillary, isn't very dangerous -- as everybody knows that EVERYTHING she says is a lie. In contrast, it's the guy who tells the truth 95% of the time, and buries his lies within that goodwill created by truth who is the danger... because then you are far more likely to believe the lies.

Blogger ScottC August 21, 2019 7:38 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Kristophr August 21, 2019 7:43 PM  

Nazis: Assholes who wear black white and red badges, who beat up people they oppose at rallies, want to censor anything they disagree with, want political opponents jailed or killed, are bigots who hate all non-whites, and want National socialism.

Antifa: Assholes who wear black white and red badges, who beat up people they oppose at rallies, want to censor anything they disagree with, want political opponents jailed or killed, are bigots who hate all whites, and want International socialism.

I fail to see a great deal of difference here.

Blogger DeepThought August 21, 2019 7:45 PM  

Some tell the truth about most things in order to strategically lie. You sound like Jordan Peterson's defenders

Vox is correct. My Father used to say if someone lies to you once, he will lie to you anytime. You can never trust a liar.

Blogger Kristophr August 21, 2019 7:47 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Username_Unavailable August 21, 2019 7:47 PM  

Looks like the cowards disabled the comments. At least I can't get them to load. Every other YouTube video I click on (including other DailyWire videos) the comments load right up. But they don't work on this video. A coincidence I'm sure.

Blogger Kristophr August 21, 2019 7:50 PM  

Proud Boys: a group of people who want to defend the right to peacefully assemble, are not censor freaks, only want criminals jailed, are nationalists who wish to preserve the US, are not racial imperialists, and detest socialism.

See the difference?

Blogger Dirk Manly August 21, 2019 8:23 PM  

@112

"He was depressed, and began watching Joel Osteen sermons. He was converted by them. After that, he joined an Episcopal Church. He believes in their more liberal doctrines, including gay priests. He thinks fundamentalists are fine people, but narrow-minded, judgey and not with the spirit of God."

So, he's had no actual contact with any sort of recognizable form of Christianity, just a motivational speaker who calls himself a pastor, and he started dropping by the house of "now now, you can't be calling sin a sin."

"He wrote a book about converting to Christianity. He does not offer his testimony for free, which is what normal Christians do, in hopes of reaching others."

So, he's had no real personal contact with an actual Christian theology....and his behavior continues as if he were Jewish...


Ah, the kicker:

"His son wrote a few essays for PJMedia about how Westerners really need to understand and respect and get along with Muslims, starting with the ones in the Middle Ages."

Yeah, because we need to "understand and respect" a group complain about a handful of "crusades" after they themselves invaded lands around the Mediterranean and were the aggressors in over 2000 battles

Blogger Retrenched August 21, 2019 8:24 PM  

"There's only one race - the human race" - Dennis Prager

"Yes, the Jews are God's chosen people" - also Dennis Prager

Blogger nswhorse August 21, 2019 8:29 PM  

@Dan in Georgia

I happened to chance upon Michelle Obama's autobiography in the bookstore the other day. The title made me laugh out loud: "Becoming".

Blogger Pathfinderlight August 21, 2019 8:29 PM  

Anyone who talks about the proud boys as if they are racist is either an uninformed patsy or a dedicated liar. For someone who makes his living on talking about issues, there is no excuse to be uninformed.

Blogger nswhorse August 21, 2019 8:32 PM  

@Joe Smith

In other words, he is lying to himself. When you do that, you end up lying to others, even if not consciously.

Blogger Beardy Bear August 21, 2019 10:41 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:it's the guy who tells the truth 95% of the time, and buries his lies within that goodwill created by truth who is the danger... because then you are far more likely to believe the lies.

Indeed, truth is power, thus a lie is only as powerful as the truth it is buried in.

Blogger xevious2030 August 21, 2019 11:19 PM  

“So if you haven't already seen it, my recent The myth of the white supremacist seems relevant to another one of VD's posts.”

It is relevant. And the substance is there, a place to start from. Being video, presentation is a part. A few things. Your face (front and profile, yours in particular), is featured to convey emotion. With that, might try less (less would convey enough) or a lot more, more natural or more off kilter, for the conveyance of emotion. People have a tendency to want to act, but acting, by its nature, is fake, and looks it. With a face that conveys, this is amplified. Present, or entertain, not act. Your presented speech is styled after poetry and inflection in drama class, but you speaking naturally instead will help with your flow. But you’re out there, and if that’s what you’ve got, give it. Lighting, backdrop tone, camera, sound, appearance are all good.

Blogger Jack Amok August 21, 2019 11:41 PM  

He may be lying but that is because there are things he just can't admit to himself.

The charitable view of Klavan is that he's lying to himself because of his compromised identity. The not-so-charitable view is that he's lying to us because that's his job. Decide for yourself how charitable you want to be. However...

This compromised identity thing is real, and something Vox has noted before. dc.sunsets said "When black people disavow black supremacy and Mestizos disavow La Raza, I'll give a fig."

Many of them have already disavowed their own racial allegiance. The problems are: not enough and even then, their kids can't be relied upon not to revert to their tribe so long as there is an active element to it.

I wish the world were better, but it isn't, and here we are. I have a lot of friends with compromised identities, so I understand why CivNats will lie to themselves about all this, but it's still lying and the only thing it can accomplish is make it harder to solve the problems with as much peace and goodwill as possible.

Blogger James Fox Higgins August 22, 2019 2:36 AM  

That's disappointing. I haven't ever watched (or listened to) a full episode of Klavan, but I've always enjoyed his clips, and I adored his book The Great Good Thing (it was quite instrumental in my return to faith in Jesus Christ). It's a shame he's towing the Shapiru line. Proud Boys are about as far from White Supremacy as a nationalist group comes, and it will be continual bullshit from the so-called "Right" like the Daily Wire crew and all the MSM liars who will (eventually) 'radicalise' many of them out of their CivNat wishful thinking and into something far more terrifying for the Shapirus of the world. So be it. Deus vult.

Blogger NRx August 22, 2019 3:10 AM  

The true litmus test was whether they backed Trump or opposed him.

Shapiro having tried to do everything he could to cause Trump to lose both the primaries and then the election is an obvious enemy leftist. All that is said about him being a greedy dual loyalist controlled op whore is true but he failed the essential litmus test. If the best case scenario becomes true and Trump becomes king, and orders that leftist be subject to "The Final Helicopter Ride" Ben Shapiro should share the fate of women's studies professors, immigration activists, and social justice warriors.

I don't know much about Klavan but going through the titles of his old podcast looks like he supported Trump at least during the general election (I don't want to dig through his stuff on the primaries). I consider anyone who backed Trump to be a good guy despite whatever flaws they otherwise may have.

For instance Sean Hannity has many many many flaws (including some residual neoconism) but given that he risked his career on a Trump victory backing him through the primaries despite being told not to... I can't think of him entirely as a bad guy.

Identity politics are a poor litmus test, wignats like Richard Spencer and David Duke endorse identity politics but like most people who call themselves a white anything they are controlled opposition and they glow in the dark. The woman question and the democracy question outrank the race question as the end of feminist social democracy will bring about a solution to any racial problems almost immediately.

Blogger Duke Norfolk August 22, 2019 5:40 AM  

McChuck wrote:I stopped listening to Klavan when he kept saying "My people, the Jews". After talking about how faithful a convert to Christianity he was, and how loyal and American he was.

My first question was, who is Andrew Klavan?

Oh, he's a Jew, enough said. And I'm happy I'd never heard of him.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira August 22, 2019 7:30 AM  

Well-worded, that email by the Klavan fan.

Blogger Avalanche August 22, 2019 10:14 AM  

@43 "you had to specifically disavow white supremacy to even join"

So, the Proud Boys are accepting AND going along with their actual enemy's terminology and premises!? If you ACCEPT the premise, you will never argue your way OUT of being in the wrong!

Blogger Avalanche August 22, 2019 10:23 AM  

@64 "Klavan also conflates anti-israeli policy with antisemitism. He seems like a pretty rational guy in most other areas. But, this alone makes him a pathetic, low-life liar. He can't be trusted."

"This alone" makes him a rather typical jew who has killed, skinned, and is wearing a skin suit to try to LOOK like one of ours!

Blogger John Kim August 22, 2019 10:37 AM  

The fact he represents the proud boys as a white supremacist group means that he's either stupid or a liar. I got the same vibe from Ben Shapiru and Steven Crowder during the 2016 Presidential elections, I didn't like both of them.

Blogger Avalanche August 22, 2019 10:55 AM  

@108 "Klavan and Prager come across so nice I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm noticing more and more though how many places where they just get it wrong. "

There's a name for that; a name we in the West are finally beginning to recognize: taquiyah! From whom do you think the moslems GOT the idea for sneaking infiltration?

Blogger cloom August 22, 2019 11:16 AM  

@Nrx So what is identity politics; a poor litmus test, or "outrank the race question" therefore irrelevant, or do you oppose identity politics?

"Anyone who claims to oppose "identity politics" at this point is either a clueless loser or a liar".

Blogger NRx August 22, 2019 12:07 PM  

@136

Not sure what you are saying...

I don't oppose white idenity politics but yet most white identarian types are wignats and feds, while most so called civnats support an immigration policy that would exclude almost all nonwhites except for a few higher level asians (and would exclude a lot of Chinese due to concerns over national security). Jared Taylor is one of the few exceptions.

I said the democracy question and the woman question outrank the race question because only feminist social democracy makes mass immigration possible. If only men could vote they would not tolerate this state of affairs nor would it ever have gotten to this point, nor would Trump tolerate it if he had absolute power. Luckily I think Trump is likely in his 2nd term to get something like absolute power... the Republic's time has passed in any case.

Blogger Up from the pond August 22, 2019 12:35 PM  

He transitioned to Christianity at age 49, at just about the time Dubya started dropping bombs on Iraq.

Oh, for a modern-day Savonarola!

Blogger Statix August 22, 2019 1:12 PM  

My fellow white people. We must stand together, and unequivocally condemn and disavow all whites.

Blogger Sam August 22, 2019 2:31 PM  

@115
The Nazis didn't hate non-whites. It is a claim part of the usual lefts 'collapse everything into Nazis I don't like'. Either an intentional strategy or because they are too stupid to understand what racism is (hint- people aren't racist towards ethnicities they have zero interaction with).

@136
It doesn't weed out infiltrators.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 22, 2019 3:32 PM  

Kristophr wrote:I fail to see a great deal of difference here.
Because you don't know the difference between a set of tactics and a political philosophy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash August 22, 2019 3:38 PM  

NRx wrote:I consider anyone who backed Trump to be a good guy despite whatever flaws they otherwise may have.


This is how infiltration works. You need to be a lot smarter.

Blogger stevo August 22, 2019 5:47 PM  

They were never meant to be more than a drinking club...

Blogger NRx August 22, 2019 6:18 PM  

This is how infiltration works. You need to be a lot smarter.

Except almost none of the controlled op types supported Trump in the primary and almost none did even in the general election. National Cuckview didn't back Trump (other then Victor Davis Hanson), Little Benji might as well have been getting paid directly by the Hillary campaign (and probably was)... indeed the only person who said anything negative about Trump who I had previously liked was Thomas Sowell (it was sad to see his name on the Nevertrump letter). Sean Hannity was the only person that I had previously thought of as pure controlled op who supported Trump (and he was such a fanatical supporter that I think now hes just kind of a naive boomer).

Where you stood in 2016 is the most accurate litmus test. Of course there are very limited exceptions to the idea that anyone who supported Trump is good... Jeff Sessions endorsed Trump early but he turned out to be the worst of traitors and his support turned out to be part of the "insurance policy". David Duke endorsed Trump in order to damage him as ordered by his masters.

There are NO exceptions to the rule that having opposed Trump in 2016 makes you an enemy leftist.

The problem with making where you stand on identarianism a litmus test is that the overwhelming majority of people willing to openly say they are any kind of ethnonationalist in public work for the feds and are the enemy. Its best to just endorse the ideas of Jared Taylor ie very limited immigration that favors Europe and repeal of all anti-discrimination laws without actually mentioning race and in practice most so called civic nationalists do endorse the Jared Taylor ideas.

Blogger Nathan Hornok August 23, 2019 3:45 PM  

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Blogger Nathan Hornok August 24, 2019 1:14 PM  

On Episode 753 Andrew Klavan did retract his Proud Boys White Supremacy comment. He said that was incorrect and he should not have put it that way. So let's give him credit for that.

I left a long post yesterday where I was hard on Klavan, but after listening to his retraction I wanted to lessen my criticism. However, I can't see my previous post so maybe the moderators never approved it. Which is well enough.

I've listened to Klavan for 2 years and I think he's just a committed Civic Nationalist that doesn't see the self contradictions. I don't think he's purposely lying. For example, later in Ep 752 he said something like the idea that racism is bad comes from the founding of America where "nation was redefined as a series of ideas." He's just blind to the fact that anytime you "redefine" something it is deceptive and subversive. He also has his American history a little skewed. He doesn't see that the idea that racism is the worst of civic crimes only came after America had established itself as an Empire (post "civil" war, Indian conquest, and World Wars).

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