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Thursday, August 15, 2019

Fake Christians in false leadership

At this point, I'm extremely dubious about the genuine faith of any so-called "Christian leader". All they ever seem to do is subvert and sabotage the clear message of the Gospel and the unmistakable meaning of the Bible while preaching the word of the world:
Marty Sampson, a prolific worship music writer known for his work with Hillsong Worship, Hillsong United, Delirious and Young & Free, revealed he is losing his faith and believes Christianity is “just another religion.”

“Time for some real talk,” the Australian writer wrote in a since-deleted post on Instagram. “I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.”

“This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many,” he continued. “No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.”
What these lukewarm Christians need is to be confronted with the full face of evil. Let them personally witness human sacrifices, black sabbaths, and elite sex rituals. Perhaps then they will begin to understand that Christianity concerns, first and foremost, never-ending conflict with the fallen world, not peace with it.

167 comments:

  1. I have never been comfortable with Hillsong's music being passed off as legitimate Christian worship music; it was less worship-focused than "Faith + 1".

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    2. Yep, or as I've also seen it (and called it myself) "Jesus is My Boyfriend" songs. Females (to a far greater degree, and really it's the younger ones, not so much the older, married ones) love this stuff. I've noticed in my church when anything like that is sung, it's mostly these young women singing loud and proud, while the older and the male mumble the words at best, if not stay silent. It's just nauseating. Yet, as soon as a strong old hymn is sung, the place erupts with the voices of the majority. There is a longing for depth and not emotionalized dreck.

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    3. So true. Why do the church leaders not understand this and make the change accordingly?

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  2. He’s correct in some of his statements, I just don’t get why it makes him want to throw his faith away. I’ve witnessed genuine miracles. Are they common? No. If they were they would cease to be miracles. Also, binary thinkers are always going to struggle with what seem like contradictions in the Bible. But like the disciples in John 6 you can’t away from Jesus when he gives you a word that seems difficult.

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  3. Let them personally witness human sacrifices, black sabbaths, and elite sex rituals.

    I don't think they believe evil really exists. They believe what the world identifies as evil is real evil - "homophobia", "racism", etc.

    No one actually thinks stuff like what you describe can actually exist in our modern world. I don't even think they believe it existed in the ancient world! How many people actually know what King Ahaz was doing with his children? How many know what Baal worship was that Jezebel brought to Israel?

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  4. I'm sure he believes those statements that "nobody is talking about" but I can assure him, we talk about them in our home routinely and have debunked to our satisfaction everything that he says "nobody talks about."

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  5. "I am so happy now, so at peace with the world.”

    As if that were ever the point, but alas...you might be "at peace with the world" now, but not for very much longer, as this world that you worship and seek to find comfort in is beginning to disintegrate.

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  6. We were told there would be a 'falling away'. You're seeing happen

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  7. "Peace I leave with you: my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, do I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled: nor let it be afraid."

    Hill song has long been prosperity gospel fluffy fluff Christians more in love with the world than loving Christ. This is 0 surprise.

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  8. “Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion.“

    Needs to read Irrational Atheist.

    But anyways, how long until he comes out as gay?

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  9. But, but Vox, that's not.....nice!

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  10. Every time I've heard any Christian pastor or teacher that I respect speak on the issue of Christian music, they have always warned against two things: Hillsong and Jesus Culture.

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  11. The whole of Hillsong makes Osteen look like Jonathan Edwards. These people believe in "Jesus Christ, Superstar" not the Son of God.

    Aside, the more I hear about this Steve Jail character the less I like him.

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  12. Is he gay too? Inquisitions were more fun when they at least tried to hide.

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  13. One of the most convincing things about Christianity is just how much evil hates Christianity.

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  14. BastionHarm wrote:"I am so happy now, so at peace with the world.”

    As if that were ever the point, but alas...you might be "at peace with the world" now, but not for very much longer, as this world that you worship and seek to find comfort in is beginning to disintegrate.


    This was the same key phrase which hit me in his admission.

    Jesus declared, "I have overcome the world". Seems like this guy has been overcome by the world-- like Cypher returning to the Matrix because. feelz.. goooood...

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  15. But anyways, how long until he comes out as gay?

    I’m with the previous comments: I think he just did.

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  16. Sometimes you just have to take these people at their word. In his case, he doesn't want any part of beautiful and loving people.

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  17. Ephesians 6:12
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

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  18. I am not surprised.

    Consider His words,

    "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    I pray for a great awakening. I pray you avail yourself of sellers of oil. Fill your lamps now.

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  19. He talks like a fag.

    His shit's all retarded, too.

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  20. The real battle is always on the inside.

    Looks like this guy lost his (or was someone's sock puppet from the get go.)

    Perhaps Christianity is like much else; those whose naked ambition guides their ascent are, by definition, not trustworthy. Satan does his best work via human propensity for vice, and the pursuit of social position (celebrity, fame, etc.) is generally a vice.

    It's a paradox, that we'll never hear of the man or woman whose pursuit of virtue is entirely treated as a personal challenge. In this age of vast circles in Venn's (social) Diagram, virtue is likely found only in the smallest of them.

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  21. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world.

    2Ti 4:10 For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica. Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia

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  22. I have recently returned to Christ after a couple decades of living in sin. I see so clearly now, that my friends, family, business partner and employees think I'm starting to go crazy. I'm only half joking. Every day I see something subversive or evil that I was blind to only a few months ago. Definitely hasn't been easy, but I'm happy to be back where I belong and pray every day for forgiveness, guidance, and wisdom to open the eyes of those that I love.

    Finding this site has been a giant blessing. Thanks Vox.

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  23. "The Bible is full of contradictions". He speaks Blasphemy, and it incenses me. Anyone who is a Christian knows this is not true. God is not a man to get confused and paint Himself into a corner, nor are His actions the crazed nature of a bipolar. That just leaves lying, and the pharisees tried that, claiming the Holy Spirit was Beelzebub.

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  24. “Time for some real talk,” the Australian writer wrote in a since-deleted post on Instagram.

    "Australian" would also explain it. Nobody in the Commonwealth knows jack about Christianity any more.

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  25. Every time I've heard any Christian pastor or teacher that I respect speak on the issue of Christian music, they have always warned against two things: Hillsong and Jesus Culture.
    It's accurate.
    Neither group has substantive music. It's very generic "I love Jesus <3 !!!" kind of nonsense.

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  26. If he is genuinely seeking the truth to his questions, I pray that God would reveal himself to Marty and ask that you all do the same.

    Being a part of the Hillsong culture or any mega church movement is not an easy thing to work with. The sexual heirarchy comes into play with the leadership, the top dog tends to be a perfectionist and expects the same level of commitment to the organization and the message from his followers as he is, and the leaders are all trying to cater to (manipulate) the common to get the message across.

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  27. AJ Rhino wrote:I have recently returned to Christ after a couple decades of living in sin. I see so clearly now, that my friends, family, business partner and employees think I'm starting to go crazy. I'm only half joking. Every day I see something subversive or evil that I was blind to only a few months ago. Definitely hasn't been easy, but I'm happy to be back where I belong and pray every day for forgiveness, guidance, and wisdom to open the eyes of those that I love.

    Finding this site has been a giant blessing. Thanks Vox.


    I second what you said. Vox Day was instrumental in my return to Christ over two years ago, and for that I am grateful.

    And, BTW, at my Orthodox parish, quite a few of us are Vox Day fans, as, they too, came back to Christ thru him and other Alt-Right personalities.

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  28. Perhaps Christianity is like much else; those whose naked ambition guides their ascent are, by definition, not trustworthy. Satan does his best work via human propensity for vice, and the pursuit of social position (celebrity, fame, etc.) is generally a vice.

    After watching the Mercy Me movie, I'm wondering how long til he's out, too.

    A lot of evangelicals are going to have to deal with Hebrews 6:4-6 and reconcile it with Romans 8:38-39 after all this.

    That would be one contradiction in how it is commonly interpreted in evangelical circles.

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    1. @CM I am not seeing any contradictions in those verses.

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  29. Fiction has certainly become truth.
    https://babylonbee.com/news/new-survivor-spinoff-will-see-which-christian-celebrity-manages-to-still-be-a-believer-in-ten-years

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  30. The longer I live, the more I see how out of sync the world is with God and Jesus Christ. Anyone "at peace with this world" probably never knew God in the first place.

    NO, not saying that you cannot be happy or find peace of mind.

    But our Lord is a fountain of joy and hope. This world makes obeying Him difficult sometimes, but that's a knock on the world, not Him.

    And I cannot begin to understand how losing faith in Him can make someone happier. This clown is turning off the only light in the darkness.

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  31. He's at peace with this world? The one ruled by Satan?

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  32. Will Pope Francis make the same kind of announcement or will he just keep his thought to himself in order to corrupt the Church more and more? #BringBackBenedictXVI

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  33. "Why did you lose your faith?"

    "I was told there would be more miracles."

    How silly and selfish.

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  34. Perhaps then they will begin to understand that Christianity concerns, first and foremost, never-ending conflict with the fallen world, not peace with it.

    Truer words were never spoken. I tend to think people mistake the kind of internal peace that comes from surrender to the lordship of Jesus Christ for being at peace with the world. They could not be more opposed.

    Also, red flags go up when Christians talk about losing their faith and being happy or at peace about it. I have a Christian friend who feels like he's losing his faith, and he's utterly anguished about it. That seems to me the proper response of someone on the precipice who genuinely understands the core of his religion.

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  35. I wouldn’t be surprised if the fake Christians joined in the Occult rituals. I would be more surprised to see them come to genuine faith.

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  36. So much of "Evangelical Leadership" and Para-church ministries like TGC, along with Christian magazines, loves to talk about itself and Evangelicals. It's a giant naval gazing operation which helps sell music and books.

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  37. The word "Evangelical" has pretty much lost all meaning by now. It just means someone who is not a Pietist. How many Millennials or younger even know what that MEANS?

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    1. Pietism is a emphasis on holy living, which is not a counter point to evangelicalism.

      Every Christian should be catholic (part of the universal Church), orthodox (worship correctly), evangelical (spread the gospel), and pious (live their faith).

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  38. Any human institution gets more corrupt and useless the larger it grows and the longer it exists. Just look at our federal government. It appears necessary to routinely set fire to anything to preserve what is actually good and burn away what is dross. I have never sat in a mega church that didn't make me want to take a shower afterward. The true believers end up leaving the compromised denomination that has grown bloated and distorted. They "Protest" and build something new (which is really just a copy of the original earth church, devoted to prayer and the Word) based on truth.

    I don't know the best way to make any Christian denomination or any other human institution "Anti-fragile," able to weather time without turning into something evil. However, God has managed to always maintain a solid remnant devoted to the Word of truth, no matter what the world tries to do to destroy them. There is always a "7000" that refuse to bend the knee and would rather face the fiery furnace. That is only possible by the power of God.

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  39. Has anyone done any research in to the people at the Executive levels of many of these Christian music companies or Evangelical Megachurch organizations?
    I wonder if there is something about those individuals have in common that might be notice worthy?
    Maybe some Judeo-Christians perhaps?

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  40. I think lot of these guys fall away by getting into porn, then transitioning to weirder porn and gay porn, before jumping on grindr and doing grindr things. At that point they're perfectly happy to live in hypocrisy, but get blackmailed into publicly stating their apostasy.

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  41. The Churchians are revealing themselves and admitting they were all a bunch of grifters and false friends all along. Josh Harris tasting the rainbow? This fellow?

    How many of these sorts truly Believe? As they were but adherents to a soft form of the New Religion, the spirit of the age, a restoration of an older, darker faith, it must feel a great relief to them to no longer have to be tied to the bigotry of 'standards'.

    If the path to follow Christ is narrow and the lion's share of mankind would rather follow the Devil's path, doesn't that make Christ quite the bigot for being so judgmental? It's -unloving-, by the Churchian's estimation, to seek virtue.

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  42. If your faith depends upon the good behavior of people, you will lose your faith. On the other hand, if your faith is in the one true God, you won't lose your faith. Ultimately, your focus should not be on your "faith." Your focus must be on Jesus, and all He accomplished on the Cross.

    It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. (Romans 2:4). Those who "lose" their faith have become deceived, and never really trusted in the goodness of God in the first place. Rather, they trusted in the goodness of people, the goodness of themselves, or have never understood the true definition of goodness. The Goodness of God is clearly defined in the Bible, and is NOT subjective.

    I'm reminded of the disciples who encountered Jesus on the road to Emmaus, when Jesus said to them, " Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." v25 "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" v27.

    The entire Bible is the summed up in the first phrase of Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ..."

    We are fools because we don't see "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" in the Books of Moses and the Prophets, and then we are "slow of heart to believe" the promises of God.

    Even Jesus' power was restricted by people who did not believe. Mark 6:5-6 "He could there do no mighty work, save that He laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief."

    How can you believe if you don't know the character of God? How can you believe if you are so foolish as to not even know the promises of God? Both the promises and the character of God (that He is long-suffering, kind, and good) are clearly revealed in the Bible. If you do not know them, then you cannot believe. Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge"

    And once you do obtain that knowledge, you must believe. And you CAN believe if you understand the character of God as revealed in his Word - both the written Word (the Bible) and the living Word (Jesus.)

    It is the enemy of Christ who seeks to deceive us about the character of God, and hide the promises of God. I Corinthians 1:20 "For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us."

    If you look up the word "all" in the original Greek, it means "all." God's will is clearly to grant all the promises of God, in Christ. It is our responsibility to declare "Amen" which means "so be it unto me." That must be declared without doubt. You cannot be double minded. James 1:6-7 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."

    I can confidently declare the God is good. His promises are good toward mankind. His intent is good toward mankind. His passion from the beginning of time has been and remains to find a Bride for His Son, and the story in the Bible, and in our lives today is the working out of that passion toward us, for the benefit of His Son.
    If you "lose" your faith, then your faith is NOT in the one true God. It never was. He is good beyond measure.
    My hope is NOT in Christians. It is in Jesus. It is in a God who was "in Christ, reconciling Himself to the world."

    Ultimately, it is this HOPE in Christ that keeps your faith strong. It is this HOPE that is the foundation of faith. And ultimately, it is HOPE (not fear of punishment) that causes you to live a Holy life. I John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as He is pure."

    If Marty Sampson is wavering in faith, it is because he has lost sight of Jesus, and put his sight on the evil of the world around him.

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  43. " No one talks about it."

    WTF?

    Been talking about this stuff for centuries, he just never paid attention.

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    1. Aka never read any books about christianty itself

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  44. Supposedly there are 2.3 billion Christians in the world, of which about 800 million are protestants. What a laughable notion.

    If true believers numbered 100 million today I would be shocked.


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  45. Stickwick Stapers wrote:Also, red flags go up when Christians talk about losing their faith and being happy or at peace about it. I have a Christian friend who feels like he's losing his faith, and he's utterly anguished about it. That seems to me the proper response of someone on the precipice who genuinely understands the core of his religion.
    Can best be interpreted as "I always chafed under the commandments of God, and now that I've found a justification that I'm satisfied with that allows me to ignore them and pretend like I'm doing so guilt free, I fee 'peace'."

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  46. I have recently returned to Christ after a couple decades of living in sin.

    This. warms my heart. Comment of the day.

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  47. If you're at peace with the world then the love of God was never in you.

    Woe to those who withhold the keys to the kingdom but do not enter in themselves.

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  48. @Harris, "Those who "lose" their faith have become deceived, and never really trusted in the goodness of God in the first place."

    I wonder when and how he thinks God betrayed him? The ridiculous answer would be telling.

    "How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe?"

    Because they made a choice to go there. Does this clown expect God to force Himself on people that want nothing to do with Him? And it will be way more than four billion people taking that ride.

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  49. Aeroschmidt wrote:Pietism is a emphasis on holy living, which is not a counter point to evangelicalism.

    Every Christian should be catholic (part of the universal Church), orthodox (worship correctly), evangelical (spread the gospel), and pious (live their faith).


    You can't just redefine words the way you like them. Historically, "Evangelicalism" is defined in opposition to Pietism.

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    1. People calling themselves evangelical or evangelical catholic starts with Luther's reformation, this predates the pietism movement.

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  50. Reading, watching, or otherwise observing the liberal mind is baffling to me. It's like they are another species, incapable of introspection, critical thinking, or even understanding some of the basic observable realities about life. As a Christian I try not to feel contempt for these people, but it is probably one of the greatest temptations I have to deal with atm.

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  51. 1 John 2:15 KJV

    Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

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  52. Couldn't help but notice the 'coincidence'? Posted this in my library a month ago - https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2019/07/evangelicals-on-durham-trail-by-dg-hart.html?m=0 - Darryl Hart exposes the whole 'Praise&Worship' of Churchianity where we worship - our emotions!

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  53. There goes another "never was a Christian, was just going through the motions". He gets all bent and bothered by questions that any 2 bit seminarian could answer.

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  54. It's the same kind of thing as the fact that you'd never guess what "Pro-Choice" means if you didn't know the history of the word, and what the words that came before it were reacting to.

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  55. "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen" - admonition by Apostle Peter
    The problem - Hebrews 5:11-14 - welcome to Churchianity!

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  56. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe?

    Not surprised to discover his "falling away" is because he's another overgrown toddler who wants everything simple, easy and free. "If God why bad thing?" is a very puerile question but it's also extremely popular among smug "I'm too intelligent to believe" types.

    By the way something, "four billion"? What's that about? Did the 6 million get a 66,567% bump when I wasn't looking?

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  57. Felix Bellator wrote:@Harris, "Those who "lose" their faith have become deceived, and never really trusted in the goodness of God in the first place."

    I wonder when and how he thinks God betrayed him? The ridiculous answer would be telling.

    "How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe?"

    Because they made a choice to go there. Does this clown expect God to force Himself on people that want nothing to do with Him? And it will be way more than four billion people taking that ride.


    That should break your heart, because it breaks the heart of God. It certainly not something to gloat about. And while it may be true, it is NOT the Gospel - which by definition is Good News. That people are dying and going to Hell is not good news.

    The Good News is that through Jesus, there is a way of escape from Sin, Death, and Hell. Jesus has defeated them all, and in Him, we have the Hope of Salvation.

    I believe that people intrinsically know they are evil, and they NEED the good news, the Gospel of Christ, which is the Hope of Salvation. God has not entrusted us with the ministry of condemnation (the old Law). Rather, he has entrusted us with the Ministry of reconciliation.

    I cannot count the times that when I've been talking to people about how good God has been to me, they immediately start confessing their sins to me (as if they are proud of them in some cases) and asking why God should judge them for their sins. I don't take the bait.

    My typical response is, "Well, it seems obvious to me that you already know what your sins are, and I appreciate that you want to confess them to me. But it is not your confession of sin that will save you, and God didn't give me the ministry of condemnation. Your own conscience is condemning you already. Jesus said in John 3:17 that He did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save it. You must confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. And as a believer, He has given me the ministry of reconciliation. So I suggest that you first be reconciled to God through Jesus. And if you want to ask about Hell and condemnation after that, I'll be happy to do so. But first, be reconciled to God."

    When they sometimes object to taking advantage of salvation through Christ because others may be perishing, my answer is, "Do you think it is an accident that we are here together now? Do you not recognize that God is giving you a personal call to come to Him through me? So why not be reconciled to God now, and then He show you how good and loving He is and then He can use you to help save others?"

    I learned long ago that you cannot argue someone into believing. You can only declare the goodness of God, and how he has personally demonstrated that love toward you.

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    1. Thankyou very much for this. Incredibly helpful.

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  58. Yes, all he got was the milk and his shit is retarded ... and comedic:

    Responding to a comment on whether he really is seeking answers or is just making excuses, Sampson said, "I really do want answers. I don’t want judgement. If it comes however, who am I to judge?"

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  59. Aeroschmidt wrote:People calling themselves evangelical or evangelical catholic starts with Luther's reformation, this predates the pietism movement.

    Depends on what you mean by "Luther's" reformation. Yes, it was used by Lutherans, but specifically to distinguish them from the Reformed (Calvin, Zwingli et. al.) It has always been a distinguishing label within Protestantism.

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  60. I have seen a lot of what pastors see, Its not pretty and only the strong in faith should know what they know about so many Christians. I don't believe a lot of the churches leaders were called by God. A lot of them are ambitious, attention seeking and weak. Christian music is were it is easiest to get away with being a total hypocrite.

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  61. If the world we live in doesn't bother you, then you are at your core, evil.

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  62. Marty Sampson: "I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy."

    James 4:4: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

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  63. How does one lose faith actually?
    I guess when we exalt the state of having faith to something that it is not, we find holding ourselves to it becomes tiring over time.
    Bible thumpers do this to themselves more often than they admit. Trying to elevate themselves for their pride and ego by "being of the faithful". They deserve the stress and despair that comes from using faith in such a selfish and worldly way.
    Real faith is expectation of something better beyond this life if we can follow Christ while alive. And never forget we are fallen and the flesh is weak.
    For further reference see Hebrews 11 preferably the concordant version.

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  64. Honestly, I have a hard time restricting myself to just a few words when I'm talking about the goodness of God. He has been exceedingly good to me - above anything I could ever deserve.

    As for the songs of Hillsong or Jesus Culture, I think they are the same as any old Hymns. It depends on the heart of the person singing the song. If your heart desires to glorify God, then you'll do so.

    A story my Baptist Preacher father once told me remains with me till today. When I was 7, we moved from Texas to Ohio, and we started attending a local church that was being Pastored by a man engaged (unknowingly at the time) in adultery. My father said that he would sit in the pew, and critique the sermons. One day, God broke into his thoughts and asked him why he was listening to the sermon of the man instead of listening for the voice of God during the sermons. After that, my father began to listen to the sermons and waiting for God to speak through the Word that was being shared rather than the man sharing it. It transformed his life. He stopped looking at and judging people, and starting looking for God.

    I'm not a pastor like my father or my best friend. I'm just an engineer. But I've learned to look for the voice of God. I've sat through sermons where the preacher was preaching AGAINST the clear meaning of the Bible, and yet still have been able to glean truth directly from God in spite of it. It all depends on WHO your focus is on.

    I'm not excusing church leaders from culpability. But I am saying that as a believer, you don't HAVE TO let that sidetrack you. If your focus is on Jesus, He can reveal Himself to you at any time, in any circumstance, and you can truly glorify and praise Him in all things - even heretical preaching.

    I'm telling you that it is much more joyous and fulfilling to keep your focus on Jesus than it is to focus on the failings of others. Obviously, Marty Sampson's admission disqualifies him from leadership. But it is STILL the heart of God to redeem him.

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    1. Like our Lord said to Peter, "What's that to you? You follow me."

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  65. Birdman wrote:What's Jesus culture

    Are you aware of Bethel, and Bill Johnson? Jesus Culture is their music.

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    1. Sorry i'm not american T.T. so idk any of those stuff, the point is i'm from the other side of your world so...

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  66. I do agree that about 90% of what passes for "Christian" music is not edifying or Biblically sound. On the other hand, it is fallen mankind who writes and sings those songs. What do you expect?

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  67. @60 he's making a "life is meaningless" implication with the 4 billion saying all the people on the world were sent here for not believing. In short: he's a moron.

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  68. Honestly, I have a hard time restricting myself to just a few words when I'm talking about the goodness of God.

    Keep speaking!

    I'm telling you that it is much more joyous and fulfilling to keep your focus on Jesus than it is to focus on the failings of others.

    Yes

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  69. Birdman wrote:What's Jesus culture

    It's a band - https://jesusculture.com/music/

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  70. Seeing evil wouldn't change these people. They'd just ask what kind of God would allow it.

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  71. Well, I'm from Finland. Make no mistake, wherever you live, the New Apostolic Reformation is going to come there sooner or later.

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  72. Ot my 6 yr old son is getting endoscopy/colonoscopy is his gi irritations dont clear up in the next two weeks. He has test results that showed intestinal inflammation indicating possible auto immune disease. Please pray it all clears up.

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  73. Matthew 7:15-20 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

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  74. To Birdman - a quick testimony about the Goodness of God:

    When I was 8 years old as a child, I was having nightmares that wouldn't go away. My father prayed for me, but nothing worked. Finally, he sat me down with a Bible, and told me to read until the nightmares left. I read. The nightmares left. And since that time, I've had absolute confidence that God would protect me.

    When my children were born, I prayed and asked God to protect them. Because I know the character of God, that he works through us on the earth, and not independently of us, I asked Him to alert me whenever I needed to pray for the safety of my children, so His power could be released to protect them. And I promised I would stop whatever I was doing to pray for them whenever He prompted me to do so.

    Fast forward to 2015, when my older daughter was graduating from Texas A&M and I was living in Denver. On March 18th, I woke up at 3:00 am, wide awake. I got up, and about 3:15am started praying. 925 miles away, in a suburb of Austin TX, my daughter had stayed overnight at a friend's house when her vehicle broke down. She and 6 other 20-something college age kids partied late on St. Patrick's day, and went to bed late. At the same time I started praying at 3:15 am in Denver, she woke up at 4:15 am in Austin, discovering the house was on fire. She had moments to grab her keys, her dog, and wake up the others in the house. They escaped the fire as the roof caved in, and the house burned to the ground.

    This coming January, I will walk the aisle with my daughter and give away her hand in marriage. I KNOW without a doubt that God was good to me, and woke me up to pray for my daughter so that He could be released to save her and the others in that house. Before I even knew about the fire, I was overwhelmed with joy that morning, and was shouting and praising God in my truck on the way to work. It was lunchtime before she called me to tell me what happened.

    THAT is the goodness of God, about which I can tell you story after story after story of how good He's been to me. I encourage you to find out about Jesus, and put your trust in Him.

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  75. There are two way to get people to do what you want the first is by force the second is by convincing people they should. Religion is all about convincing people to do certain things and agree on certain things and the counter arguments are the opposing religious beliefs.

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  76. I hear this same explanation for fall from grace by many "Christians". How do they not understand we live in a fallen world (it is in both the old and new testaments)? Christ did not deny that the devil could offer him all the nations, meaning the devil is of this world. Thankfully Christ rejected the offer to our benefit. Our supreme dark lord made a statement in a blog post several years ago and then repeated several times since that if Christian Western Civilization is cast aside we run the risk of losing everything up to the flushing toilet. I scoffed at that comment when I first heard it, but I can now see that as a distinct possibility.

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  77. Replies
    1. Wow... I'm thinking the Episcopal bishop in my area is in this. It sounds so familiar.

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  78. Haus frau,
    I recommend visiting a naturopathic doctor and ask about intestinal parasites. My daughter had duodenal ulcers that almost killed her from iron deficiency, and the regular docs diagnosed Crohn's disease, and wanted her in for GI scopes every 6 months for the rest of her life. After being treated for intestinal parasites, at the next 6 month scope the ulcers were gone. Docs were dumbfounded.
    I'm just putting this out there. It's a little woo-woo, but I can't argue with the results.

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  79. Oh, and I will be praying!

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  80. Markku wrote:You can't just redefine words the way you like them. Historically, "Evangelicalism" is defined in opposition to Pietism.

    Reading what infogalactic says about each, that looks wrong. Evangelicalism emphasizes salvation by grace through faith. The six principles of Pietism sound much like modern Evangelicalism.

    I can see how early Lutheran priests were put off by it, but I don't see anything in those six principles which should dismay a modern evangelical.

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  81. Two last comments:

    1. That same daughter who God saved from the house burning down when she was 23 years old had years earlier had a sleepover with several of her friends when she was 12 years old. One of the girls decided to tell a ghost story, over the objections of one of the other girls. That 2nd girl got very scared and wanted to go home to her mother. I remember holding her in my arms, trying to comfort her, and praying for her for about 45 minutes. About that time, my lightning fast mind realized that what she really needed to do was reach out to God herself, and ask for Him to come and drive the fear away - much like my father did for me when I was 8 years old. Within moments after her praying, the fear left, and she got up and rejoined the other girls.

    Frankly, it was a little humbling for me. I believe in the power of prayer, and yet 45 minutes of me praying didn't calm her fears. But the moment SHE placed her trust in God and prayed, God revealed Himself, and the fear left her. It just goes to show how much more powerful He is than we are - even as believing Christians.

    After that, something amazing happened. That young girl who had God remove her fear became a vocal witness for Jesus in her Junior High School, to the point that my own daughter thought she was a little fanatical. But that is the power of what happens to you when God Himself touches you vs. when others pray on your behalf. God is a personal God, and He revealed Himself as powerful to this young scared girl. That changed her life more than my prayer ever could.

    2. When something like this happens, i.e. a supposed Christian leader falls, we have a choice. We can join the Devil to make a spectacle out of the fallen Christian. We can focus on the unfaithfulness of some who call themselves Christians. Or we can choose to focus on the faithfulness of God through Jesus, and give him glory. The Devil is more than happy to sow division and strife. But he hates, hates, hates for God to be glorified.

    Your choice.

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  82. Yeah no one ever talks about the supposed contradictions in the Bible! No one!

    No one ever talks about how God is a big ole meanie for not letting everyone into heaven! He's like a North Korean dictator!

    I've never heard these objections before!

    These are all brand spanking new original objections!

    Who is this guy think he's kidding?

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  83. Ominous Cowherd wrote:Markku wrote:You can't just redefine words the way you like them. Historically, "Evangelicalism" is defined in opposition to Pietism.

    Reading what infogalactic says about each, that looks wrong. Evangelicalism emphasizes salvation by grace through faith. The six principles of Pietism sound much like modern Evangelicalism.

    I can see how early Lutheran priests were put off by it, but I don't see anything in those six principles which should dismay a modern evangelical.


    You're not understanding what I'm saying. The label was created by a group within Protestantism because they felt that another group within it had the wrong emphasis, and they wanted to identify themselves in opposition to that other group. Originally this was Lutherans vs. Reformed, and later when all the awakening movements arrived, it was awakenings with one emphasis, against those against another emphasis.

    But now people are just calling themselves Evangelicals because they have always called themselves Evangelicals. It's an entirely pointless label.

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  84. It sort of exists over here, if you are actually specifically studying comparative religion. It groups together certain awakening movements against certain others. However, probably 99% of people wouldn't know what you're talking about if you used the word.

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  85. However, Puritanism was a very strong influence in American history, which is why the word is meaningful to Americans.

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  86. Wilkes Marprelate wrote:Yep, or as I've also seen it (and called it myself) "Jesus is My Boyfriend" songs. Females (to a far greater degree, and really it's the younger ones, not so much the older, married ones) love this stuff.

    When the teenybopper girls are choosing the songs, that church has a big problem. Having those songs on the menu for the teenyboppers is another, related problem.

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  87. Markku wrote:The label was created by a group within Protestantism because they felt that another group within it had the wrong emphasis, and they wanted to identify themselves in opposition to that other group.

    OK, that makes sense.

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  88. People are aware of the word because it's in the full name of the Lutheran state church, though the full name is rarely used. The same way as we usually say "Catholics" instead of "Roman Catholics". But what people are generally not aware of is that it groups a few denominations together. The Lutherans are simply the biggest one of them, and nobody else uses the word anymore because there really isn't anyone to use it against. Some of the Pietist movements still exist, but they make so little noise now that most people don't even know they do.

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  89. Can we set a timer for when he becomes an LGBT+*€&!@ advocate and goes down the Ted Haggard route.

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  90. Marty Sampson.

    What is his ethnicity?

    In other news, Pastor Izzy Fishbein tweeted: "Jesus was a cis-gender racist. We favor a more inclusive spirituality here at Free 'N' Easy Temple."

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  91. I guarantee you this has to do with the sexual abuse charges against Frank Houston, father of Brian Houston, the pastor of Hillsong Church.

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  92. I wish I found the music of Skillet at all listenable, because their singer/songwriter gave a very good response to this. In short, Why do these apostates make such big gestures out of this? Because they want to take people with them. Good(normal) apostates just quietly walk away. Demonic agents pull dick moves like this.

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  93. @ Haus Frau
    I second the notion to check for parasites. Years ago had a Mexican girlfriend who had started to suffer from severe anemia.
    Her symptoms reminded me of something I'd read in my father book Clinical Parasitology. I determined it was intestinal roundworm, got the meds from a friend in WHO, two weeks later she's cured.

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  94. Well, I always referred to them as "Hellsongs", simply because the lyrics and music were terrible. South Park nailed it with the 'Faith+1' episode.

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  95. Stickwick Stapers wrote:I have a Christian friend who feels like he's losing his faith, and he's utterly anguished about it.

    From your description, it sounds as if he's just not feeling it anymore - he's intellectually convinced, perhaps, but no longer emotionally. Mark 9:24 is an example of someone in that fix.

    Keep on trusting God, keep on doing what God last had you doing. Like love, faith isn't an emotion, it's a decision.

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  96. "Peace with the world" must mean "refuse to stand for righteousness". The MGTOW of religion at best.



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  97. “How many miracles happen. Not many.”

    Going from someone who hates the name of Jesus.. and living a life that reflects it to to doing a 180 , loving the gospel message with all of your heart and living out your life in a new way is about as miraculous as anything I can think of.

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  98. @109
    That's what I noticed with both these recent a-holes. Its not just "My hearts not in it any more. I'm am losing faith and it's wrong of me to pretend otherwise and continue to lead. I wish you well" but rather "Come on in the water's fine!".

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  99. He is the same clown who advised Israel Folau to "abandon his judgmental attitude and embrace love rather than trying to scare people to side with his religious beliefs".
    Christianity is the only religion to identify evil and to have Truth as the core value.
    Brian must be the pastor for the money, the power or both.

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  100. Continuing, sort of the same thing with some degrees of hypocrisy, where the people aren't trying to take advantage in their deception, but just trying to go with the flow on the surface. They don't seek to undermine or overturn the general scheme. Then you have the saboteurs.

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  101. A lot of people want Jesus, my hip sugar daddy, not Lord Jesus Christ.

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  102. Marty Sampson is probably a homosexual.

    His statements are indicative of someone who knows no actual theology, and has developed no actual reason derived faith, and who dabbled in Christianity on the basis of his feelings.

    This is a very basic test. If a pastor of any denomination starts a sentence with 'I feel' it's irrelevant, and it's probably heresy.

    The miserable gaylord feelings of these pastors has absolutely zero relationship or relevance to God's law.

    The entire Charismatic movement is pure heresy, where inducing spiritual consolations and a 'Christian High' supplants reason based development of faith, and the classical virtues. It's actually Satanic, because Fr Rippeger and many Saints have explained that demons and Satan are able to manipulate and induce the emotions - whereas the realm of the Angels and of God is the intellect, and both have a degree of permitted control over the will. The will conforms to either the emotions or the intellect.

    There are nine stages of prayer to achieve the beatific vision. And the very bottom, the very lowest, the most base, is the stage of verbal prayer for the receipt of spiritual consolations. And that is unfortunately where almost the entire world lies. Practically no one even gets to the stage of spiritual meditation - because meditation has been perverted by the Eastern mystical traditions of selflessness. But nothing is begat by nothing - the first principle of Aquinas. And emptying the mind is merely an invitation for it to be filled by the Enemy.

    These feelings gaylords have no business ever being a pastor.

    Faith derived from feelings isn't faith. It's nothing. It's less then nothing.




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  103. This is a putrid statement , & makes my skin crawl. Living in the Deep South, I've seen way too many of these Jesus is my Homeboy, (until I find a side piece or come out as gay), types.
    Yuck.

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  104. @Wario's Mart - Hi. I'm interested in more information about the stages of prayer that you mention in your post. Thank you.

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  105. wahsatchmo wrote:"Why did you lose your faith?"

    "I was told there would be more miracles."

    How silly and selfish.


    "What about that miracle of God raising Jesus from the dead?"

    "Well, that's just old news, you know?"


    It proves out Jesus's parable: If they won't believe the Law and the prophets, they won't believe even if someone came back from the dead.

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  106. Crush Limbraw wrote:Couldn't help but notice the 'coincidence'? Posted this in my library a month ago - https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2019/07/evangelicals-on-durham-trail-by-dg-hart.html?m=0 - Darryl Hart exposes the whole 'Praise&Worship' of Churchianity where we worship - our emotions!

    Old Hymns and Orthodox Hymns have plenty of emotion. But "Praise and worship" is especially cringy because its mean to induce the emotion of "eros" that in inherent in Romance Songs. The tunes indicate Romance and inappropriate Eros despite what the lyrics are. And Romance is always sexual.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/02/02/romance-is-sexual/


    This is why the praise and worship is so gay and cringey.

    Compare lame hillsong worship to this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUXFCaFJIFw

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  107. @70

    "How does one lose faith actually?"

    He's pretty sure he put it in his sock drawer, but actually, he left it out on the kitchen counter, and a mouse ate it in the middle of the night.

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  108. This is also how worship songs should sound:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfDreatXYeU

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  109. I'm convinced many of these people were plants from the start. Freemasonry should never have been tolerated by the churches.

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  110. "Real talk"

    Okay, here's some: nobody cares about your non-crisis of unfaith. If you don't believe anymore, shut up and go live like the rest of the nonbelievers.

    Unless you can tell us something worthwhile about doubt or unbelief. But no, you're just doing a little girl blog about your feelings and switching cliques.

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  111. @15- Except Joey Pants had an real chance at feeling good all the time. This guy, if he's troubled by souls in Hell, should find plenty of misery here on Earth to trouble him. With no way to rationalize it.

    Then there's regular-old worldly despair and diminishing returns. If he's able to live a happy life not caring about universal order, he would be lucky. And he might still end up hating it.

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  112. Joe wrote:I'm convinced many of these people were plants from the start. Freemasonry should never have been tolerated by the churches.

    Go here: https://onepeterfive.com/the-ascending-way-of-prayer-part-i/

    Also find Father Chad Rippeger on YouTube (before he gets memory holed) on the levels of prayer and Saint Teresa's revelations.

    Note that just to get to the fourth stage requires the total cessation of all mortal and venial sin.

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  113. I recall suggesting to my 5th grade son that, as part of his paper on the Aztecs, he study the accounts of Spanish chroniclers regarding the heart rending (literally that) sacrifices performed by the Aztecs on other native tribal captives, and the pyramids of human sculls that decorated Aztec plazas. It rather presented a more balanced view of the shortcomings of the Christian religion that replaced the Aztec status quo ante.

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  114. @wario's mart I appreciate the info. Thank you.

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  115. I think he meant "Nobody in Hillsong - a congregation of tenuous Christianity and deep anti-intellectualism - talks about it; just like they don't talk about anything else of any substance whatsoever."

    "I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy."

    This euphoria is typical of people who have resolved to suicide.

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  116. If a friend is having trouble with faith, put them onto Feser's blog.
    http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/
    Great stuff on the morality of God, on causality, and a rhetorical/humorous streak.

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  117. @14

    Very true, and Jesus certainly warned the Disciples of this. However, I often wonder nowadays just how much of the world's hatred is for true Christianity. I find ot much more likely that the contempt is for the fraudulent, shallow, sickening, heretical churchianity that has almost completely replaced the real thing in the public eye. Quite frankly, I don't think that unbelievers have witnessed enough real Christianity (at least not here in the West) to form any kind of opinion of it one way or the other.

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  118. @135 liberranter

    Sure, but I've tried talking to Alt-Retards and others who hate Christianity because they see Judeo-Churchianity. You can talk to them until you're blue in the face but they'll still insist that Judeo-Churchianity is the real Christianity because it's far more dominant in today's society.

    IOW, they subscribe to the notion that consensus by human beings determines what something is, and therefore don't believe in objective truth.

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  119. @87. That's what i'm talking about! God is good. The Holy Spirit is our comforter. His mercy is great!
    @97. So many professing christians don't know 5 bible verses, so yeah, he probably has no clue.

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  120. @69 My experience so far, I think it's relevant to your question:

    I grew up expecting faith to be a kind of feeling, and mistook the pursuit of that feeling as faith. I attribute that to my ignorance, a hedonistic culture, and my Boomer father proclaiming Christ but remaining an utter asshole.

    Yeah, maybe without Christ he would have been even worse, but I'm not interested in that discussion. He repeatedly ignored the Bible's instruction to not exasperate his children.

    I did make the choice to disregard what I had actually been taught, but I was also taught a lot of garbage, and so I was lost for many years in nihilism and hedonism.

    I've only recently come to understand that the feeling can be part of faith, but it is not faith itself. I still struggle with faith, but I can only pray for guidance, continually recommit to devotion, and seek fellowship.

    So, did I lose my faith? I don't know. I think you could make the case that I never really had faith, even though that I described it as "losing my faith" in my early 20s. At best, it was weak and frail, and I was lost for a long time.

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  121. Eventually someone is going to have to form an undercover curriculum of the Christian faith as it really is - complete with the mysticism, and the philosophy, and the formation of the true Faith. Because it's being systematically degraded and disassociated into disparate elements. Which of course, is the point of Kabbalah. People only get eroded scraps of each of the elements.

    To get a sense of the mystical and communal, you now have to go to a Church in Samoa.

    For the philosophical, it only really exists in Sensus Fidelium.

    For formation, it only exists in the books on advance through the spiritual life in the works of the Saints.

    And this is where Miles Mathis is wrong, as VD said. His lack of Christianity means that despite all the brilliance of that individual or set of individuals, he or they lack the vision of the supernatural which is the premise of the Phoenecian and Jewish world order .

    There is a good book by G K Chesterton called 'The Everlasting Man'. It's quite apposite to our times. You can read all about the cosmology of Carthage. The Gods Baal, Moloch and Tanit figure prominently.

    Strange, how they figure prominently today as well.

    The name 'Hanni-bal' means 'blessed of Baal'.

    If you go to Wikipedia you will see that there appears to be a lack of consensus over the child sacrifice of the Phonecians.

    But I think in modern times it has been confirmed that there is indeed a consensus.

    VD knows - the easiest way to understand Christianity is the existence of evil.

    The truth is that most people reject Christianity because it is so hard, because it is so complex, because it is so demanding.

    That doesn't mean it isn't true. It unfortunately in many ways, seems to be true. Is true.

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  122. I like the old saw "fact, faith, feeling". Fact being the truth of the Word of God, Faith the belief in those specific teachings, and feeling always comes at the tail end, and even then ebbs and flows with life's daily trials.

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  123. Jeff aka Orville wrote:I like the old saw "fact, faith, feeling". Fact being the truth of the Word of God, Faith the belief in those specific teachings, and feeling always comes at the tail end, and even then ebbs and flows with life's daily trials.

    No, feeling does not always come at the tail end.

    Feeling has no relationship to the Christian life, except insofar as it is a faculty to be subjugated.

    The whole point of Christian spirituality is to achieve the tranquility of order that is obtained by placing the emotions in absolute servitude to the faculty of reason.

    The entire point of the Christian advancement in the spiritual life is to 'die in relation to the self' and replace the self with an ever increasing proximity to the beatific vision.

    There are these beautiful old tapestries that exist that depict how specific feelings develop in relation to the development of specific networks of the virtues.

    But rightly ordered feelings only arise as a result of spiritual discipline.

    It's just ridiculous how badly it's all been inverted, where you get these retarded Charismatic movements where literally the entire theology is one of what the individual feels like, and the self.

    Feeling has almost nothing to do with either fact, or faith. People have lost so much precision that they conflate 'feeling' with 'intuition'.

    You receive intuition from God. Overwhelming feelings could come from either God, or god. There is no way for a mere man to tell.

    I have no idea how Protestants subsist in faith without the Rosary or without the Saints and without the traditions.

    But Christians need to stand together now more then ever.

    But please, state not your feelings. These worthless emulsions only serve to obscure and to confuse.

    Every day is a battle 'against' lower order feelings. And you have all these Christians who idiotically make feelings front and centre. The reason, people, that women and homosexuals destroy religion is because they find it very hard to subjugate the feelings in relation to reason.

    Faith is a discipline - the problem we have is that the discipline has been deliberately destroyed.

    Christianity is the religion that produced almost all modern science as opposed to the fake Jew science we are burdened with, precisely because it is the only religion that truly emphasises development of the intellect, and the ordering of the faculties.

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  124. I find Christianity a hard grasp. When I read about this guy I thought maybe he's a bit like me, maybe he's just confused, I thought maybe he's not a bad guy, but just genuinely can't figure it out. When your IQ isn't 150, but isn't 100 either you have trouble getting your head around it. Not dumb enough and not smart enough.

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  125. @Harris

    "As for the songs of Hillsong or Jesus Culture, I think they are the same as any old Hymns. It depends on the heart of the person singing the song. If your heart desires to glorify God, then you'll do so. "

    Although out of the heart comes the fruits thereof. Its actually not the same as the old Hymns but rather a distortion of true worship as much as going through the motions worship without one's heart in it is false.

    As the book by Leon J Podles pointed out(Church Impotent).

    The hillsong music entails a relationship with God that is inappropriate in worship and out of accord with his glory and majesty where he is to be sanctified in the eyes of all people. Where as a result of improper worship Nadab and Abihu were burnt to death:

    Leviticus 10:1-3

    10 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not.

    2 And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.

    3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace."


    Hence why Old Testament worship was specifically prescribed by him in a certain way to truly glorify him. Regardless if they thought that with such an act they are truly desirous in glorifying him.


    I think there is a right ways and wrong ways to worship him and a person that truly wants to glorify him would seek to correct the error of their ways when such is pointed out to him.


    Romance in music and lyrics have no place in worship of God of which Hillsong and many evangelical worship services are guilty of. Only the marriage bed is appropriate for such a culture.

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  126. @Wario's Mart

    "I have no idea how Protestants subsist in faith without the Rosary or without the Saints and without the traditions."

    The miracle of the Gospel. Of God's word. And of the everlasting faith in their heart that Jesus is God and God raised him from the dead after he has died for our sins. That we may have redemption, glorification and live everlasting.

    Amen.

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  127. The miracle of the Gospel. Of God's word. And of the everlasting faith in their heart that Jesus is God and God raised him from the dead after he has died for our sins. That we may have redemption, glorification and live everlasting.


    Amen!
    Speak of "Charismatic" churches, it annoys me to see how that word has gradually changed meaning. It's supposed to mean belief in the present-day operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, in particular Tongues, Prophecy, Healing, and so on. Charismatics were people in the older denominations who adopted that part of Pentecostal theology, without leaving those churches and becoming Pentecostal.

    Now it just seems to mean an emotive and shallow form of worship, and no real depth of Bible teaching. And also not much in the way of Holy Spirit gifts.
    It's as if the package has stayed the same, but the content has been changed.

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  128. I find Christianity a hard grasp. When I read about this guy I thought maybe he's a bit like me, maybe he's just confused, I thought maybe he's not a bad guy, but just genuinely can't figure it out.

    That's not possible given that he also calls himself a worship leader. He's a snake.

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  129. Nathan Bruno wrote:I have never been comfortable with Hillsong's music being passed off as legitimate Christian worship music; it was less worship-focused than "Faith + 1".
    This is true and funny both; thanks for the laugh.

    matveidaniilovich wrote:He’s correct in some of his statements, I just don’t get why it makes him want to throw his faith away. I’ve witnessed genuine miracles. Are they common? No. If they were they would cease to be miracles.
    I think you're rather wrong here: miracles are common. What could be more miraculous than such a Great and BIG God listening to a child's prayer? Or that a Good and Just God should provide salvation to sinners?

    Beau wrote:I pray for a great awakening.
    I do too.


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    1. God also feeds the birds of the air & clothes the lilies of the field but we don’t refer to those things as miracles.

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  130. I attended Hillsong for about a year or so over 2000-2001. I was ex-catholic and agnostic/atheist for about 10 years before I had a supernatural revelation of God that caused me to reluctantly accept I'd better be a Christian after all. I didn't join a small group and so found it easy to be anonymous and hide in the mega church. I liked the worship although I struggled with it, (judging it as "middle of the road" music), as well struggling with the format of the service because it was totally foreign to my Catholic childhood. During that time I also attended the Hillsong women's conference and to this day I am very grateful for the 2 things I received: 1. Reassurance of my salvation (I even thanked the speaker at the time as I'd been full of doubt) and baptism in the Holy Spirit. (It was more than a decade before I began to use that gift of tongues but I'm grateful the door was unlocked all those years ago). I remember attending a big worship concert as well - a stadium built for the Sydney Olympics was filled to capacity of believers worshipping Jesus with those P&W songs that have been criticised here as being so dreadfully inane. I've been to many rock concerts so I understand very well the emotional high from seeing and hearing a band you like. But when you don't know all their material the "high" diminishes considerably. I was unfamiliar with much of the Hillsong music catalogue but it was still a powerful event. It's the heart of the worshipper that matters. (Though yes undoctrinally sound lyrics are always a concern and I have heard many popular Christian songs that make me cringe.)

    So Hillsong music has a place for me in worship as with other styles including traditional hymns. I won't be ditching it just because some guy announces his foolish error to the world. p&w lyrics do emphasize the connection we have with Jesus and our trust in him - and very little else. It's all positive reinforcement to keep connecting to God. Not many go deeper or explore theology. Traditional hymns contain theological instruction because they were used as a teaching tool as well for worshipping. For ages I struggled with worship. Why it was needed etc. I disliked the simplistic, repetitiveness of contemporary P&W. But eventually I found the repetition helped me be drawn into a contemplative state where I am praying and thanking God etc. Singing or praying. This may be in English or my prayer language. It doesn't matter. It is during these times God has given me images or words to reflect on later, or He gives me a strong urge to pray for a particular person. If I was not in that state of focusing on God this wouldn't have happened.

    I think anyone who is worship leader/ song writer must seek God more diligently than the rest of us. They owe it to themselves, to their talent, and to the listeners they are writing for. It's a tremendous responsibility that's may not be taken seriously enough by those who embark on this type of career. It's not enough to rely on your own creativity and talent. We can be inspired divinely or demonically. The celebrity status such ppl achieve must also be a spiritual hindrance. They need to take regular sabbaticals and tune out the world. It should also be remembered that although the person is flawed and has some wrong ideas it doesn't mean their body of work is totally useless. God still uses ppl he has gifted despite them going off the path at times. It's up to us to discern the truth in what they're producing. This is why I disagree with the dismissing of certain churches and their bands, like Bethel and Hillsong, as being completely heretical.

    Finally, it should be remembered that many Australians are politically soft lefties. These values obviously, and unfortunately, infect a person's faith.

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  131. I was talking about this with my pastor the other day, more specifically about the guy who did the celibacy thing and then gave it up. We ended up agreeing about a couple of points.

    First, being a Christian,and particularly living a Christian life, is a skil;. Just like any other skill, it must be practiced, honed, and criticized in order to do it better. A person who "picks up" a Christian life is like someone who "picks up" a guitar -- you may or may not have talent, and you may or may not have the potential for greatness, but the bottom line is that picking it up doesn't make you an expert. You need to practice. You need a mentor. You need to *work* at it. Anybody who says "That's OK, any strings you want to pluck will all sound fine" is doing you a disservice. You need criticism, you need direction, and you need to take that criticism seriously, go back and practice more.

    A lot of these people become Christians and then believe that that's all there is to it. When they hit a hard part, they don't work their way through it. Instead they give up. It's like the people who get frustrated and throw that guitar in the closet or start using their weight machine for hanging laundry.

    Being a mature Christian means paying dues.

    Second, one of those dues is recognizing that you are there to serve the Christ. He is not there to give you warm fuzzies. When I talk to someone who is a self-professed Christian, one of the first things I ask is "What belief do you have that you really hate to believe?"

    I ask this because, to me, that is the true test of moving from an apprentice Christian to a journeyman Christian (being a master is something much more difficult). A young, apprentice Christian discovers that the message of Christ is universal and makes a lot of sense. It focuses on love and communion, etc. Mostly warm and fuzzy.

    Then, the more you get into it, the hard rules start to show up. The need to sacrifice the self. The demand that one live by certain rules. The demand that one deny one's natural desires. And on and on. Eventually, you run into something that you just don't like at a real visceral level, but it's clear that the Christian rule goes against what you really think should be right. It might be anything -- the traditional view of marriage, of sexuality, of submission, regarding violence, whatever.

    Then it gets real. Beause at that point you have to say to yourself. I don't like this. I don't "feel" that it's right. But it's what the scripture says. It's what the tradition of the church and believers says. It's what the Holy Spirit says. And at that point, you three optioins. You can try to parse and wiggle your way out of it, like the so-called "Red Letter Christians" do. You can submit to that rule even though you don't like it and you intuitively disagree with it. Or you can walk away.

    These people just failed their journeyman examination. My pastor believes that you should never become too much a disciple of any Christian leader who is still alive. It is only when you see what they have built with their entire lives that you know whether or not they are worth emulating.

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  132. Faith is a mystery.

    Another -- the mystery of iniquity.

    Free will or won't:

    Choice determines destiny.

    ANATHEMA MARANATHA.

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  133. John Rockwell wrote:Romance in music and lyrics have no place in worship of God of which Hillsong and many evangelical worship services are guilty of. Only the marriage bed is appropriate for such a culture.

    Was nodding along until your last sentence.

    "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

    Christian marriage is patterned after Christ's relation to his church. So the wrongness of contemporary worship may not be the wrongness you are thinking.

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  134. When your IQ isn't 150, but isn't 100 either you have trouble getting your head around it. Not dumb enough and not smart enough.

    Read the scripture and ask the Holy spirit to reveal it to you. Read it again, and then do it. The combination of reading then doing is key to understanding. Don't just read about fishing. Go fishing.

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  135. Tangentially related to this is the case of Sean Buchanan, an anti-Trump Unitarian preacher who got killed by a drunk-driving illegal immigrant who sought Christian sanctuary in Buchanan's town.

    Stand up for the Truth. You may end up killed by a drunk illegal immigrant regardless, but where you end up afterwards is what matters.

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  136. @ Beau

    Admittedly, I do look for clues and note the consequences of my actions, however, not in such a direct way as you have suggested. I have a somewhat predetermined outlook on life. If I had to choose a denomination it would be one with a predestination theme, but expect those would be so watery I would be disappointed. I expect if something is there and I'm meant to see it I will.

    Thank you for your advice, it's much appreciated and furthers my thoughts.

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  137. @156

    "Sean Buchanan, an anti-Trump Unitarian preacher who got killed by a drunk-driving illegal immigrant"

    Unitarian....

    When Satan's done with a minion... he's done.

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  138. "I'm genuinely losing my faith and it doesn't bother me."

    You say I let you down, ya know its not like that
    If you're so hurt, why then don't you show it?
    You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at
    You have no faith to lose, and ya know it…--Bob Dylan

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  139. Wario's Mart wrote:The entire Charismatic movement is pure heresy, where inducing spiritual consolations and a 'Christian High' supplants reason based development of faith, and the classical virtues.

    I wouldn't try to argue with that.

    Wario's Mart wrote:There are nine stages of prayer to achieve the beatific vision. And the very bottom, the very lowest, the most base, is the stage of verbal prayer for the receipt of spiritual consolations.

    Dude, now you're making the entire Charismatic movement look respectable.

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  140. Ominous Cowherd wrote:Wario's Mart wrote:There are nine stages of prayer to achieve the beatific vision. And the very bottom, the very lowest, the most base, is the stage of verbal prayer for the receipt of spiritual consolations.

    Dude, now you're making the entire Charismatic movement look respectable.


    I'll just save a pointless argument.

    You can only contend with a) 'stages' or b) '9'

    To contend with a) you have to profess spiritual equalitarianism.

    To contend with b) you have to be illiterate on matters which pertain to Christianity.

    There are 9 choirs of Angels. What distinguishes the choirs?

    Their proximity to the beatific vision.

    So we don't need to argue. Emphasising the premises of your trivial snide comment is enough.

    Please don't disappoint me as to the calibre of the Dreak Ilk by purporting to argue with me on this.

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  141. If you believe there are no stages of advancement in the spiritual life you are a spiritual equalitarian.

    9 just so happens to match the choirs of angels, and the character of the advancement is also the same.

    I'm not picking fights with Protestants.

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  142. Anyway it's all good. No worries. Apologies for length and tone. Not trying to be a dividing and conquering Catholic. Just was struck by it. Love this blog. Please don't ban hammer.

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  143. For the same reason why Congress refuses to understand and change the immigration laws.

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